The Taylor Swift Topic: Teen Country Sensation to World-Dominating Pop Star

[methodwriter85]

7 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

 

I love that she casted Miles Teller, who has a really bad reputation for being a dick. He would have been an amazingly good stand-in for John Mayer, though I don't think she's going to do "Speak Now" for awhile. I think the general consensus is that "1989" is next.

This is thematically similar to the fantasy video I have in my head for "Last Great American Dynasty" so I'm happy with it.

Edited November 16, 2021 by methodwriter85

[BlueSkies]

She is the owner of the top 10 songs in America.

I wouldn’t consider myself a fan but I appreciate her talents: writes her own songs, plays instruments.  I like listening to her songs sometimes 

Edited November 3, 2022 by BlueSkies

[cmahorror]

First bootleg of the Eras Tour out - she sounds great and does all or parts of over 40 songs for an over 3 hour concert. She knows that her fans paid a lot of money to see her and she did her best to try and give them their money's worth. Would I spend that kind of money to see her live - not unless I was rich, seeing Taylor would cost me a mortgage payment.

BTW - Ticketmaster doesn't just hike up concert prices. I am attending a charity hockey game today (police versus firefighters) and tickets at the door are $11. If we bought tickets through TicketMaster they were $27 and none of the added fees go to the charity. How can they blame the venue when buying directly from venue was $18 less than buying from them?

Edited March 18, 2023 by cmahorror

[aradia22]

I finally finished listening to Midnights. It wasn't the worst but she needs someone to push her and I don't think Jack Antonoff is that person. She's gotten really lazy on the vocals. So much of it is whispery talk-singing and not even the Ariana Grande kind. The production is often flat or it actively works against the song. There's barely a melody on a lot of these songs. I do think it would have been an easier sell if you cut like half the album because most of these tracks were not ready yet. If she's going to be pop, I want 1989 and Reputation Taylor. 

Just keep Anti-Hero, Karma, Bejeweled, Mastermind, The Great War, Paris, High Infidelity, Would've Could've Should've, and Dear Reader and perfect them. Re-record the vocals, clean up any dud lyrics and rhymes, and devote time to producing the songs so they all shine and have some life and energy.

[WendyCR72]

Full disclosure: I am not a Taylor Swift fan. I do admire that she writes her own songs and such, but not my thing. EXCEPT for her Christmas tune, "Christmas Tree Farm", but generally not my style. But I digress...

Whether Taylor Swift releases good or bad albums seems irrelevant at this point. Right now, I liken Taylor Swift to likely how The Beatles probably were in their heyday: Millions of screaming fans that worship anything the band/she releases. See the Billboard charts as proof as far as Taylor Swift goes (and The Beatles, too!).

Eventually? Maybe the quality will matter as her fans age. Or maybe not.

But, I guess the point of my post, such as it is, is if people are buying her records, no one will push Swift - not even herself - because the status quo is working for her and working well. Millions of record sales and multiple songs on the charts don't lie.

[aradia22]

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But, I guess the point of my post, such as it is, is if people are buying her records, no one will push Swift - not even herself - because the status quo is working for her and working well. Millions of record sales and multiple songs on the charts don't lie.

I think you make fair points. But Taylor strikes me as someone who 1) craves legitimacy and 2) craves approval. She wants to be an artist, an intellectual, etc. Her aspiration is to be making great work. And she also wants to be told by established artists and institutions and critics that she is making great work. So I hold out hope that eventually she will stop thinking this is good enough. I honestly think getting a different producer might be enough. She'd still be making very similar songs but at least they'd have the oomph she once had with Antonoff but that has been producing diminishing returns for multiple albums now.

[shantown]

I liked Midnights (probably in my top 3 albums for her), but I agree that she needs to move on from Jack Antonoff. I love what they've done together, but if she really wants to enter a new era I think she needs a new producer. But also they're good friends and working together makes them both happy... so who am I to tell them to move on!

[SunnyBeBe]

What’s really going on with her?  I just read on another place that she was mouthing secret messages to her new boyfriend during her show.  And, he had said the same message in one of his shows.  It seems so bizarre to me.  How old are these people?  It does remind me of J. Lopez behavior.  She still thinks it’s fun to involve with a bad boy?  Really?  
 

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/matty-healy-attends-taylor-swifts-eras-amid-dating-rumors-pic/

[EtheltoTillie]

On 4/13/2023 at 4:27 AM, WendyCR72 said:

 

Whether Taylor Swift releases good or bad albums seems irrelevant at this point. Right now, I liken Taylor Swift to likely how The Beatles probably were in their heyday: Millions of screaming fans that worship anything the band/she releases. See the Billboard charts as proof as far as Taylor Swift goes (and The Beatles, too!).

Ev

I came here today to understand the Taylor Swift phenomenon.  A lot of stories in the last few days about dads buying tickets for their daughters to go to the concerts and even going with them.  A friend of ours bought expensive tickets to take his 25-year-old daughter.  Some guy spent $21,000 for tickets (shown on the news), if its a real story.

So why do only girls/young women go to see her?  I think they see her more as a role model.  This is not like the Beatles.  I'm 68, and I was 8 when the Beatles appeared on Ed Sullivan in 1964.  From then on I was a fan--not a screaming fan.  A real fan.  The screaming was like the screaming at Elvis--a sexual frisson thing.  But their music really was great.  It changed style over time, but it was always something special.  I can still listen to it. 

I think Swift writes some good songs, but they're not something I'd listen to over and over. 

[truthaboutluv]

I would think the more relevant Taylor Swift discussion is how she's getting dragged all over social media, particularly Tik Tok, for her current association with Matt Healy. If one is unaware of why that's problematic to some, well I'll just direct to this post that I think sums it up quite well. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Csbgp1LLca5/

The last two weeks have seen a slew of POC Swifties calling her out and many white Swifties, in solidarity with the POC fans, calling her out. Many are realizing what frankly I could have told them a long time ago, that much of her activisim is performative, and that she only truly cares about issues when it one, personally affects her or two, impacts her bottom line. 

Naturally, some of the die-hard fans are all over social media and online fighting valiantly for their Queen. My favorite are the ones still trying to frame this as sexism and misogyny against Taylor because, "like why is she being held accountable for a man's actions."

And it's like no, they know very well that's not what anyone is saying. That what many are saying is that as the adage goes, "you are the company you keep." And that it is very interesting that a woman who spoke out valiantly and loudly that what most disturbed her about Kanye West's song Famous was the reference to her as a bitch, sees nothing wrong with hanging around a guy who misogynistically speaks on black women to the point of sharing how he gets off on porn that degrades them. Oh but that's right because Taylor Swift's brand of feminism has always been peak "white feminism." 

But no worries, she's trained her little cult well. She'll still continue to sell out and make a boatload off this tour. It's why she's shown how little fucks she gives by this outrage that dude has twice joined her opening act Phoebe Bridgers, for a few songs. So it's like, "oh you're bothered I'm hanging out with him, here let me force him onto you at my show you spent practically your life savings to attend."

And come next year Grammy Awards, she'll win another AOTY, making it a record breaking fourth, while artists like Beyonce and Kendrick Lamar and a slew of others continue to have none. So no worries, her peak white woman privilege will contiue to soar - social media backlash be damned. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by truthaboutluv

[aradia22]

@truthaboutluv Thanks for saying this. I don't have the energy to talk about it anymore.

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The last two weeks have seen a slew of POC Swifties calling her out and many white Swifties, in solidarity with the POC fans, calling her out. Many are realizing what frankly I could have told them a long time ago, that much of her activisim is performative, and that she only truly cares about issues when it one, personally affects her or two, impacts her bottom line. 

I mean, I knew. Part of the reason I like "The Man" is because it's a perfect explanation of white feminism. But he's more than a "bad boy." Choosing to date someone this extreme makes me think she's actively (not casually, obliviously, or otherwise passively) racist and that's been harder to come to terms with. I have a cynical view of most people in entertainment and their performative statements but excusing shallowness is different from excusing actual malice and harm.

[EtheltoTillie]

Wow this is really eye opening.  Makes me all the more concerned that she has these young girls and women in her thrall. 

[WhitneyWhit]

None of this is at all surprising to me. At her core she’s a rich privileged white girl whose daddy literally invested in a failing record company to give her a music career. I don’t know why anybody would be shocked that she would associate with someone like her new boyfriend. I’m no Kanye fan but she was more than willing to ride the wave of him bullying her (which always had some racial undertones) until Kim put a stop to it. And of course there was the “squad” which was white as white could be until people pointed that out and all of a sudden she’s friends with Zendaya  

The Swifties are a different breed. It’s borderline dangerous to say anything negative about her within earshot. When she broke up with Joe Alwyn they were all over Tik Tok saying they didn’t believe it was true because she “wouldn’t want us to find out this way” and talking about how much they mean to her and the hell that would break lose when some brave soul would point out that they weren’t actually friends. Now apparently Swifties are camping out at her NYC apartment building and following her car and quite honestly I don’t have a lot of sympathy for her. She more than anyone I’ve seen really courted a parasocial relationship with fans and did everything she could to make these people think they were just this close from being friends with her and that she was the only person who understood them, I mean she allowed fans in her home. It always seemed so calculating to me.

[Misslindsey]

Now Taylor is going to do a remix of Karma with Ice Spice. This feels like a performative cover your ass move. It's not working for me, because her new boyfriend's problematic behavior does not get swept under a rug because she is doing a remix with someone he said offensive comments about.

[aradia22]

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because she is doing a remix with someone he said offensive comments about.

Disappointingly, it just confirms she KNOWS about everything

[truthaboutluv]

11 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

This feels like a performative cover your ass move.

Like a lot of what she does. It's like when some of her batshit crazy Swifities were attacking SZA online because SZA was on track for something like four or five straight weeks of her album being #1 on the Billboard charts. 

Mind you, SZA's overall sales weren't even close to Taylor's. However, her numbers were still very impressive and there was a lot of industry support around the strong staying power her album was showing. Well that was enough to rankle some of the Swifities' feathers because no one is allowed to succeed but Taylor. 

After weeks of many calling out how side-eying it was for an artist who claims to be some huge feminist staying quiet as some of her fans viciously attacked a black woman, Taylor's great statement was to make an IG Story saying how she liked one specific SZA song. Such profound allyship. 

But speaking of SZA, there was also her coincidentally releasing a millionth vinyl version of Midnights, complete with reducing all the other million vinyl versions to $0.65, right as SZA was on path to get her fifth week at number one. Many saw this as an obvious ploy to pad her album numbers and push it back to No. 1

I wrote a post a long time ago in this thread, when it was first created, that I absolutely respect Taylor's talent as a songwriter and producer (I refuse to believe she's an amazing vocalist - she's serviceable at best). However, I think there is a Machiavellian element to her personality that makes her incredibly shrewd and manipulative. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by truthaboutluv

[aradia22]

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I absolutely respect Taylor's talent as a songwriter and producer (I refuse to believe she's an amazing vocalist - she's serviceable at best). 

As far as producing goes, basically since Reputation, I think she's been getting increasingly diminishing returns from Jack Antonoff. Either he's making bad choices or he isn't standing up to her bad choices, or both. As a songwriter, I think she definitely has skill but she's been rushing the albums resulting in a lot of filler and some clunky lyrics (even on the songs I like). 

Quote

It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me
At tea time, everybody agrees

At tea time??? Is she regularly having afternoon tea?

Quote

Privacy sign on the door
And on my page and on the whole world
Romance is not dead
If you keep it just yours
Levitate above all the messes made
Sit quiet by my side in the shade
And not the kind that's thrown
I mean the kind under where a tree has grown

That's a first draft and you can't convince me otherwise.

Quote

If I was some paint, did it splatter
On a promising grown man?

What?

On vocals... 100% yes. She has definitely improved over the years but there were lots of songs on Lover and Midnights that would be improved by covers. And again, from a producing standpoint, someone needs to tell her to ditch the breathy whisper and actually push herself to sing. I can't believe some of those vocals were the final tracks and everyone was just fine with it. Mastermind, The Great War, Labyrinth, Bigger Than the Whole Sky, Would've, Could've, Should've... I KNOW she can sing better than that. She wrote some pop songs for Mastermind but they needed to be punched up by someone who can sing. 

As I said in April, I'd happily listen to good covers of Anti-Hero, Karma, Bejeweled, Mastermind, The Great War, Paris, High Infidelity, Would've Could've Should've, and Dear Reader. Recommendations welcome.

[Cranberry]

I'm glad the criticism is going more mainstream.

Taylor Swift Has Been Branded Another “Complicit White Woman” After Matty Healy Admitted To Masturbating To Hardcore Pornography That Degrades And Humiliates Black Women Just Three Months Ago (Buzzfeed)

Taylor Swift Is Apparently Dating An Alleged Racist — And Is Now Using A Black Woman To Cover Her Ass (HuffPost)

Taylor Swift’s Matty Healy Controversy, Explained (Forbes)

Should Taylor Swift speak up now on Matty Healy’s controversies? (The Guardian)

Matty Healy’s controversial podcast comments revealed: ‘I’d f – – k your sister’ (New York Post)

The Washington Post, NBC News, and others also posted articles. I hope this all isn't forgotten the second her next re-release drops.

[Cranberry]

Ha, even The Onion weighed in:

Fans Speculate Who Taylor Swift Might Be Talking About In New Song ‘My Weird Little Racist Guy’

[Halting Hex]

On 5/23/2023 at 10:29 AM, WhitneyWhit said:

a rich privileged white girl whose daddy literally invested in a failing record company to give her a music career.

Actually Big Machine was brand-new when Taylor signed with them; she was the first face of the company.  They might not have had major success before her, but that's not the same as "failing".

And Scott Swift spent a whopping $120,000 to get a 3% share of the company.  (Yep, the whole shooting match was only worth $4 million back then.) Toby Keith was the big "angel" investor, not Scott.  The idea that he "bought" Taylor's career is silly.  Scott Borchetta/Big Machine pushed her because they could smell the $$$$ coming off of her.

And guess what?  They were right.  As her having scored more Top 40 records than any other female artist in history has rather proven, I'd say.

BTW, Taylor's childhood home in Wyomissing PA was on the market a few years back, at the less-than-stratospheric price of $700,000.  (Or 1/17th of what she later paid for her mansion in Rhode Island.) Scott and Andrea may not have been cashing welfare checks, but "rich" might be pushing things.  He was probably driving all the way from Pennsylvania to the Merrill Lynch office in NYC, 5 days a week, because they wanted to stay within a budget.

Sounds more like the U.M.C. ("Upper middle-class" to quote a long-forgotten Bob Seger tune.) But JMO.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Halting Hex

[janie jones]

On 5/25/2023 at 12:50 PM, aradia22 said:

At tea time??? Is she regularly having afternoon tea?

"Tea" as in gossip. Everyone agrees she's the problem when they're gossiping about her.

I fucking hate that song, though.

[BlueSkies]

She was causing all sorts of traffic jams around town.  It's funny my dad was talking about her and people paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars to sit in the bleacher seats at her concerts to barely be even able to spot her.  To him it seemed ridiculous.  It sounded a little like an old man get off my lawn vent.

 

But then I saw this clip

 

From that view I agree with his sentiments.  I respect Taylor.  I think she's talented and pretty but ticket prices are way way outrageous 

Edited May 29, 2023 by BlueSkies

[Halting Hex]

8 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

 I think she's talented and pretty but ticket prices are way way outrageous 

Well, Taylor's ticket prices range from $49 to $499.  What we're all shocked by is the resale market working its "magic".  Stronger efforts to ensure that tickets don't get sold for ridiculous markups (requiring ID of the original purchaser to enter the venue, perhaps?) would kill that off, but the history of efforts to regulate capitalism-run-wild probably ends before TS was born.  It's been the Wild West for consumers for a loooooong time.

Were Taylor (who has fought with TicketMaster over this issue, you'll recall) to say "I'm the problem, it's me" about the prices, she'd probably just be projecting.  As insane as things have gotten.

(When I saw Taylor at the end of the 1989 tour in 2015, I got a decent seat for under $250.  Nothing happening like that nowadays, sadly.)

[Cranberry]

Taylor Swift and Matty Healy Split After Brief Romance: Here's Why (ET Online)

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"Taylor and Matty broke up. They are both extremely busy and realized they're not really compatible with each other," a source tells ET, adding, "Taylor's friends want what's best for her and aren't shocked that their relationship fizzled out since she recently got out of a long-term relationship."

Her PR is so predictable at this point. This doesn't change my perception of Taylor, but I'm glad I no longer have to hear anything about Matty Healy.

[JustHereForFood]

Three Taylor Swift concerts have been cancelled in Vienna due to a planned terrorist attack

Damn. I wasn't planning on going, I am more or less ambivalent about her, but so many people from my country were planning to go and from reading the reactions online, they are devastated. Yeah, silver lining, at least it was discovered in time and a tragedy was avoided, but still, damn.

I fucking hate terrorists!