Figure Skating

[Enero]

12 hours ago, MaKaM said:

They have endless channels these days thanks to online broadcasting. They only need to replay the ISU feed with Tara and Johnny overlays (or, you know, not) on any one of endless streaming channels or even youtube. USA gymnastics has been putting junior competitions on youtube live. I watched Romanian championships last year on facebook live. Was it great, no. Could I see everything, also no. But I had the opportunity to decide if I wanted to watch (I did) instead of it being buried behind a paywall or ignored completely. 

I don't see anything wrong with charging people to watch figure skating. There is fan interest in the sport here in the U.S., but it's obviously not enough to warrant NBC (or whomever) to put so much effort into it. So they charge the fans who do have a true interest to watch. It's an easy way for NBC and the USFSA to make money off the airings, which as I understand the latter desperately needs.

Quote

it should not be rocket surgery to toss together a skating channel and replay 50 years worth of figure skating on a loop or something. People would put it on in the background and discover a new appreciation for the sport (and new dislike for American commentators aside from my beloved Uncle Dick and Terry Gannon).

Well putting together a channel is not splitting the atom. However, there are copyrights etc., to consider. Someone would have to buy the rights from the networks who originally aired the figure skating competitions at the Olympics, Worlds etc., from 10, 20, 30 years ago before they can just start airing it on TV or online. Then there is the cost of running the network, editing the footage etc., so that it can air. This is likely not cheap or easy. Again, no one is going to make this type of investment unless there is a strong enough interest there, and thus a potential for profit.

8 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Wow...Medvedeva looks exhausted. The bags under her eyes look like the belong on a 60 year old face. Poor girl. Rest. Eat. Heal.

Agreed. Poor baby. She's probably been very stressed about how this Worlds would go for her. Glad she made it through this first season away from Eteri, and ended it on a strong note. Hopefully she'll take a long relaxing vacation after the tour season is over. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Enero

[MaryMitch]

17 hours ago, Harry24 said:

I'm thinking of at least eight friends of mine who were casual but warm fans of figure skating, absolutely would have followed the figure skating season, absolutely would have been aware of when the World Championships were on and happily watched them, but are now completely unaware of when events take place.  It didn't even occur to me to ask any of my friends if they saw any of the WC.  I know I would have been greeted with a slightly blank look and, "Oh, right, ice skating.  I really like ice skating.  When is it on?"

Agree. I wouldn't even have known that the event was going on if not for this thread. Someone here posted the US broadcast date/times and I put it on Facebook and a BUNCH of people thanked me for it. People will watch skating if it's on.

[Darknight]

I don't mind paying to watch something but the ISU and USA doesn't show everything and we always have to hear from Johnny and Tara speak about non skating things. Why pay $60 for something when they don't even show ice dancing? I also want to see all skaters from all countries not just my own. No offense to the wonderful USA skaters but I love watching other skaters from other countries. I think online is the way to go. Many people don't watch TV anymore or got rid of cable. I don't know the budget for USA fed and ISU but I'm guessing it is not a lot of money. I mean Gold medal at worlds gets you $25k I believe. In order to air a sport it has to have viewers. In order to have viewers you have to air it. Skating just isn't popular enough here. Gymnastics  and tennis is more popular than skating. I mean I'm slightly jealous that Alina, Rika, Hanyu get full coverage in Russia and Japan plus people celebrate their win. Over here nobody knows who Nathan Chen is. Even people at school don't know who he is all they know is that he skates. Everyone in Japan knows who Rika and Hanyu are. They can't even walk down the street without being noticed. On top of that they pull down videos fast. So the interest isn't there. Not enough sponsors. 

[healthnut]

I think NBC should do the same thing with skating they do with gymnastics. Post the entire competition on YouTube for free. Let the sport get a following again instead of waiting for a US lady to be relevant. 

[ChicksDigScars]

23 hours ago, Enero said:

I think to air or not to air figure skating during more convenient times on network tv is a catch 22. In order for them to air the competitions there has to be a strong interest for it, but then the belief is that garnering a strong interest requires airing the competitions. 

The networks aren’t going to air the competitions without the ratings being there. At the end of the day they are trying to make money ie a profit off everything they air and if the audience isn’t there to garner that profit it’s not their job to build that audience. Domestically that’s up to the USFS.

And unfortunately, the World Figure Skating Championships is ALWAYS up against March Madness. Ratings wise, it will always suffer. Nationals doesn't have such competition in February.  In fact, it's usually the week or two AFTER the Super Bowl (except in the Olympic year, then it's in January). It has better ratings because it really doesn't have anything up against it except for regular network programming. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by ChicksDigScars

[Darknight]

5 hours ago, healthnut said:

I think NBC should do the same thing with skating they do with gymnastics. Post the entire competition on YouTube for free. Let the sport get a following again instead of waiting for a US lady to be relevant. 

I think they're waiting for the next Michelle Kwan to get people interested. Again, there will never be another Kwan. 

[Darknight]

I forgot football and basketball are huge here. Grand Prix events would be during basketball and football season. So of course that would mean people wouldn't watch skating anyway. March madness. Superbowl in Feb. I guess the youtube is a great idea ISU

This tech panel were so clueless. They flagged Sofia then realized they made a mistake. At least they were fair. I don't think they called out many skaters if not all. 

And thanks to Eteri, Evgenia is getting hate again for leaving Eteri. 

[Growsonwalls]

6 hours ago, Darknight said:

I forgot football and basketball are huge here. Grand Prix events would be during basketball and football season. So of course that would mean people wouldn't watch skating anyway. March madness. Superbowl in Feb. I guess the youtube is a great idea ISU

This tech panel were so clueless. They flagged Sofia then realized they made a mistake. At least they were fair. I don't think they called out many skaters if not all. 

And thanks to Eteri, Evgenia is getting hate again for leaving Eteri. 

I absolutely don't get the vitriol directed at Evgenia and Alina. Maybe you could dislike their programs and I know some people don't like Evgenia's technique, but both girls seem like lovely normal teenagers. Never seen either of them act disrespectfully towards anyone at competitions or be poor sports. What is wrong with people? 

[Mellowyellow]

The girls are excellent sports! Alina in particular always seems very muted when she does win.

The only time I saw her try to be really bubbly was when Rika beat her in the Grand Prix final! I genuinely enjoy her skating but even if I didn't that personality would win me over for sure.

They are pretty big stars in Russia so I guess with that comes the haters and lovers especially in this internet age. There was a joke on another forum about how everyone will talk about Eteri, Zhenya and Alina until the end of time no matter what happens in the ladies because that's all they are obsessed with.

I find it amusing how the trolls would probably love a Zhenya/Alina catfight but the girls are just super zen. Would be such a train wreck if they had more dramatic personalities! 

***

They all seem to be enjoying Japan. I am seeing ramen from Bradie, fruit from Zhenya and sight seeing pics from Alina. It warms my cold dead heart to see them so happy! 

[healthnut]

17 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

And unfortunately, the World Figure Skating Championships is ALWAYS up against March Madness. Ratings wise, it will always suffer. Nationals doesn't have such competition in February.  In fact, it's usually the week or two AFTER the Super Bowl (except in the Olympic year, then it's in January). It has better ratings because it really doesn't have anything up against it except for regular network programming. 

Actually, US Nationals is in January and is always up against the first or second round of NFL playoffs which air on Saturday afternoon and evening and Sunday afternoons which is the same time the primo figure skating events take place, men and ladies free skates. 

March Madness is a big deal, no doubt, but a small fraction of the NFL playoff audience and I imagine, a lot less overlap. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by healthnut

[Darknight]

7 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I absolutely don't get the vitriol directed at Evgenia and Alina. Maybe you could dislike their programs and I know some people don't like Evgenia's technique, but both girls seem like lovely normal teenagers. Never seen either of them act disrespectfully towards anyone at competitions or be poor sports. What is wrong with people? 

They're both so sweet to each other. Russian media didn't help and neither did Eteri who keeps bringing it up. She is a grown woman for crying out loud. Evgenia never said anything bad about her.  The comments are just awful. I translated some Russian comments calling Evgenia terrible names, saying they hope she dies, she is not a real Russian, and she needs to be grateful for Eteri who taught her and helped her win. It's so sad. 

Also, I'm proud of Nathan for managing Yale and elite skating plus mostly working on his own. That's not easy. 

[HartofDixie]

2 hours ago, healthnut said:

Actually, US Nationals is in January and is always up against the first or second round of NFL playoffs which air on Saturday afternoon and evening and Sunday afternoons which is the same time the primo figure skating events take place, men and ladies free skates. 

March Madness is a big deal, no doubt, but a small fraction of the NFL playoff audience and I imagine, a lot less overlap. 

Back in the 90’s skating still had to compete with other sports for airtime. When ABC had skating they would air Nationals at night (sometimes live) and put stuff on ESPN. For a time junior Worlds aired on Lifetime. If NBC/Fox showed football CBS aired a skating special. 

Its gotten worse once NBC got the rights only airing GP for singles on the network while the rest wasn’t shown at all or were put on NBCSN/Universal and you could only watch if your cable company offered it.

Even when Davis/White were on top they would only show their skate and nothing else. NBC won’t change until we have a lady who can be on the World and be an Olympic medal contender.

[Growsonwalls]

2 hours ago, Darknight said:

They're both so sweet to each other. Russian media didn't help and neither did Eteri who keeps bringing it up. She is a grown woman for crying out loud. Evgenia never said anything bad about her.  The comments are just awful. I translated some Russian comments calling Evgenia terrible names, saying they hope she dies, she is not a real Russian, and she needs to be grateful for Eteri who taught her and helped her win. It's so sad. 

Also, I'm proud of Nathan for managing Yale and elite skating plus mostly working on his own. That's not easy. 

It amazes me that a grown woman is repeatedly attacking a 19 year old. Especially when said 19 year old has kept a dignified silence about the whole matter. What is even more horrible is the Eteri uber-fans that populate message boards who repeatedly attack Evgenia and even Alina for not being "good enough" for Eteri's group. Again, these are teenaged girls who have shown great sportsmanship and class. It boggles the mind. Thankfully both seem to have a good head on their shoulders and hopefully enough self-worth not to take the comments seriously.

[MaKaM]

2 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Even when Davis/White were on top they would only show their skate and nothing else. NBC won’t change until we have a lady who can be on the World and be an Olympic medal contender.

And even then, it is a faint hope. NBC did a survey once (in the 1950s?) and determined from it that women who watch sports want a STORY and DRAMA and aren't really interested in the sport or the scores or how those scores are calculated.

“The people who watch the Olympics are not particularly sports fans,” he [John Miller, NBC Marketing] told Philly.com recently. “More women watch the games than men, and for the women, they’re less interested in the result and more interested in the journey. It’s sort of like the ultimate reality show and miniseries wrapped into one.”

So because of this strange idea, we will never see "women's" sports shown as sports (all competitors, minimal drama/narrative, etc) until there is a major culture shift at the network that unfortunately holds the rights to the majority of "women's" sports.

[Darknight]

Eurosport is the best.

Eurosport- I don't know how Elizabet got those scores. 

Eurosport- That jump is UR but the judges didn't call it. 

Eurosport- Why are that skaters scores so high?

Eurosport- Wrong edge. 

Eurosport- the performance doesn't match the music. 

Eurosport should just take over judging and commentary. 

[Darknight]

21 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

It amazes me that a grown woman is repeatedly attacking a 19 year old. Especially when said 19 year old has kept a dignified silence about the whole matter. What is even more horrible is the Eteri uber-fans that populate message boards who repeatedly attack Evgenia and even Alina for not being "good enough" for Eteri's group. Again, these are teenaged girls who have shown great sportsmanship and class. It boggles the mind. Thankfully both seem to have a good head on their shoulders and hopefully enough self-worth not to take the comments seriously.

What's amazing to me is all of Eteri defenders. I'm sure if Brian posted what she did he would be shamed. When Eteri does it it's ok. She was hurt by an 18yo teenager leaving her after 11 years. Zhenya was her daughter. Well, she's a grown woman who should suck it up and get over it. I'm scared to think what she'll do to Alina if she leaves. She bashes all of her students that leave her. I'm sure Alina saw how everyone treated Evgenia when she left. 

[Darknight]

Women's sports are still new. Unless a woman has sex appeal(sad to say) people aren't interested. Mikaela Shiffrin a skier was just interviewed on Jimmy Fallon but people can't stop going in on her looks. She is pretty but many don't focus on her achievements. Women are also seen as less than men. I think they did a study about this. Men sports represent strength and action. 

I think lady skaters are more popular than men, pairs, and ice dance(well depends on who you ask), but we need a constant lady skater with appeal. Not just one who comes and goes. I don't think the viewership will ever be like it was. I think the judging scandal of 2002 was icing on the cake for the sport. We don't have the same appeal to sponsors or viewers.  Skating is a dying sport here. I also think it's hard to follow the judging system. They need to explain scores and programs more clearly. What is a trip axel, triple toe, quad sal? Why did skater a score less than skater b? 

[cpcathy]

I think the new scoring system is ruining the sport. All the skaters look the same. The old scoring system was easy to parody and make fun of, but it worked for figure skating. I don't love this sport as much. It's just a bummer.

[annzeepark914]

2 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I think the new scoring system is ruining the sport. All the skaters look the same. The old scoring system was easy to parody and make fun of, but it worked for figure skating. I don't love this sport as much. It's just a bummer.

The only discipline I enjoy watching is ice dance. The other disciplines, IMO, are boring (except for Jason who isn't spending his time setting up one quad after another). It is a sport and skaters must be challenged. But for me, quad-a-thons (in men's) just aren't interesting. Change edge spirals are not easy to do but no one does them today, along with those spectacular Ina Bauers. And why do pairs skaters have to do two sets of triple jumps? They're not singles  skaters. I can't be the only skate fan grousing these days.

[Darknight]

Eteri is going to ruin these kids bodies. Why is a 10 yo jumping quads? Why? For what reason? Does she care about their growing bodies? Not even boys jump quads at 10. A good coach would never allow a pre teen jump quads. I'm concerned these kids will have hip replacement at 13 and knee replacement at 16. The fact that she shows off one of her young girls at 10 jump quads and people praising her for it is concerning. These kids need protection. I guess that won't come until we see the injuries like we saw in gymnastics or teens in wheelchairs

[HartofDixie]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/03/28/former-figure-skaters-family-blamed-suicide-false-accusation/3300924002/

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Change edge spirals are not easy to do but no one does them today, along with those spectacular Ina Bauers.

Ina Bauers remain quite common; even just looking at the men's podium at Worlds, two of the three have an Ina Bauer position in their free program.  With Vincent he uses it as a jump entrance, while Yuzuru does the full, lengthy glide down centre ice soaking up the adoration of the crowd (indeed, variations of that tend to be in his free programs).

Quote

And why do pairs skaters have to do two sets of triple jumps? They're not singles skaters.

Singles skaters need a lot more than two sets of triple jumps, but in any event, you aren't required to do two sets of triples.  Indeed, the silver medalists at the Grand Prix Final this year did double Salchows for one (they've subsequently upgraded).  Obviously they do them because triples are worth way more points and teams can't afford to cede those to their rivals.  That's always been the case in the sport.

See also, the Junior Worlds pairs event, where Panfilova/Rylov missed out on the Junior World title because they were only doing double jumps and even clean they couldn't quite catch Mishina/Galliamov (who are doing the hardest three-jump combination of any pairs team: 3S-Eu-3S).

Edited March 29, 2019 by SeanC

[HartofDixie]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/03/29/governing-body-knows-truth-behind-alleged-sexual-abuse/3313035002/

[annzeepark914]

On 3/28/2019 at 11:00 PM, SeanC said:

Singles skaters need a lot more than two sets of triple jumps, but in any event, you aren't required to do two sets of triples. 

Of course singles do a lot more than triple jumps.  But they don't do overhead lifts, pairs spins, death spirals, throw triple ( or quad) twists, etc., moves that are extremely difficult (& some dangerous) to do well enough to make the podium. That's the pairs' world, a totally different discipline than singles.  Pairs have enough to do to master these elements safely so why do they also have to dip into the singles discipline and do the individual jumps (plus make them synchronized) in order to gain more points?  Ice dancers don't have to so why should pairs?  Anyway, this has bugged me for several years.  There's nothing I can do about it (but if I could...!!)

[SeanC]

8 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Of course singles do a lot more than triple jumps.  But they don't do overhead lifts, pairs spins, death spirals, throw triple ( or quad) twists, etc., moves that are extremely difficult (& some dangerous) to do well enough to make the podium. That's the pairs' world, a totally different discipline than singles.  Pairs have enough to do to master these elements safely so why do they also have to dip into the singles discipline and do the individual jumps (plus make them synchronized) in order to gain more points?  Ice dancers don't have to so why should pairs?  Anyway, this has bugged me for several years.  There's nothing I can do about it (but if I could...!!)

Jumps have been part of pairs since pretty much the beginning.  They’re as much a part of it as they are the singles disciplines.

Edited March 30, 2019 by SeanC

[MaKaM]

I don't mind pairs jumps but they don't need to be more than doubles. Big, majestic doubles. Landed with great glide out and maybe even synchronicity. It is an easy fix too. Just make the doubles worth the same points as the triple and no one will do a janky triple when they can do a superior double. Pairs already limits its talent pool by needing two co-located skaters with complimentary skills, the men have to be larger generally than singles and the women can't be too large. To require this specific subset of humanity to also be able to do multiple triple jumps in unison illustrates (to me) why pairs has been a blah since about 2006. Pairs has lots of opportunity for emotion and character playing but when it has to be stroke, stroke, stroke to your next big skill.

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, MaKaM said:

I don't mind pairs jumps but they don't need to be more than doubles. Big, majestic doubles. Landed with great glide out and maybe even synchronicity. It is an easy fix too. Just make the doubles worth the same points as the triple and no one will do a janky triple when they can do a superior double. 

That would be ridiculous, because triples are much more difficult than doubles and necessarily must be worth more.

[ChicksDigScars]

After finally getting to watch the Free Dance (thank you, Olympic Channel), I'm going to say something quite shocking. 

Hubbell and Donahue got hosed. Please. pick yourselves up off of the floor. 

Not out of the gold medal, of course. No one else was ever going to win that, and it's starting to become boring. How many more years of this do we have? And P/C are fairly young. It could be an additional Olympic cycle of the fawning. Wouldn't surprise me to see them go after Virtue and Moir's three Olympic medal haul (not counting team medals, which they probably can't match) and have them compete until 2026. If they win the gold twice, it matches V/M's two gold, one silver haul. 

No, H/D got hosed out of the silver. I think they got screwed by skate order. If they had skated after Sinitsina and Katsalapov, they'd probably have gotten the higher marks. Tanith is very good at pointing out the mistakes, and she said more than once that S/K's GOE scores should have been docked for skating too far apart.  It's also clear that H/D learned for their complacency at 4CC and worked on the program. Part of my dislike for them stems on their entitled attitudes. They were on cruise control, thinking that their placement on the podium was a given. They needed a shock and upset. 

As much as I love Stepanova and Bukin, they were placed correctly. Tanith was also right about them, IMO. They still need some fine tuning. But I gotta love Ivan Bukin's smiles in the Kiss and Cry. He appreciated the season's best scores. His partner, however was pissed that they probably lost out on the podium.

And I was REALLY disappointed with Chock and Bates' placements. And LMAO that it will forever be brought to the viewer's attention, that Barbara Fusar Poli gave poor Mauricio the Evil Glare of Death. Even when she's clapping and supporting her team as a coach, we'll always be reminded of her time as a skater. 

[MaKaM]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

That would be ridiculous, because triples are much more difficult than doubles and necessarily must be worth more.

The point, you missed it.

Disincentivising triples means people won't do them and will focus on their other pairs skills that make pairs unique. annzeepark914 was lamenting there was nothing that could be done about pairs jumps and I was pointing out there was an easy solution. So thanks for your input.

ETA: points are completely arbitrary. They've gone with harder things = more points but they could at any point reallocate and decide that scratch spins are worth the same as a quad or a change of edge spiral is worth a 3F-3Lo combo. They can do what they want to promote what skills they want to promote and right now, they want to promote difficulty over execution and since the top people all get nearly 10 for artistry anyway, they aren't really promoting that until they normalize the scale down so 8s are more likely, 9s are for exceptional, and 10s are for the perfect Torvill-and-Dean Bolero moment.

Edited March 30, 2019 by MaKaM

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, MaKaM said:

The point, you missed it.

Disincentivising triples means people won't do them and will focus on their other pairs skills that make pairs unique. annzeepark914 was lamenting there was nothing that could be done about pairs jumps and I was pointing out there was an easy solution. So thanks for your input.

ETA: points are completely arbitrary. They've gone with harder things = more points but they could at any point reallocate and decide that scratch spins are worth the same as a quad or a change of edge spiral is worth a 3F-3Lo combo. They can do what they want to promote what skills they want to promote and right now, they want to promote difficulty over execution and since the top people all get nearly 10 for artistry anyway, they aren't really promoting that until they normalize the scale down so 8s are more likely, 9s are for exceptional, and 10s are for the perfect Torvill-and-Dean Bolero moment.

I did not miss the point.  I said that your suggestion makes no sense from the point of view of having a fair scoring system.  Triples are more difficult than doubles, so when assigning points to the value of jumps, they should be worth more.  It's unfair to the people doing triples if you do otherwise.

It's also not true that they want to promote difficulty over execution.  Indeed, they made changes to the scoring system this year specifically to emphasize execution more -- and the effect in pairs has been among the more pronounced places.

Edited March 30, 2019 by SeanC

[Jeddah]

It would be a huge step backwards if pairs started doing double jumps instead of triples. Sure, it would help the lower level pairs like the Knierims who botch their jumps every time, but why lower the standards? And I don’t think there’s no artistry anymore. Savchenko/Massot and Sui/Han are gorgeous teams who have it all. I truly don’t understand how anyone could watch them and complain that there’s no artistry.

I think I’m in the minority on this board because I love the technical content. Mirai landing that clean triple axel? Nathan doing six quads? Elizabet landing a quad? I want more of that! That’s how sports move forward. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Jeddah

[MaKaM]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

I did not miss the point.  I said that your suggestion makes no sense from the point of view of having a fair scoring system.  Triples are more difficult than doubles, so when assigning points to the value of jumps, they should be worth more.  It's unfair to the people doing triples if you do otherwise.

The point being no one would do triples if they weren't worth more. They would do doubles and could focus more on the pairs-specific things like lifts, twists, side-by-side step sequences, et cetera. The IJS could be tweaked to say "pairs is not about jumps. We want a minimum level of jumping but no need to be aiming for quads. All the falls are ruining the sport so, go do other things to get your points, the end." Gymnastics just did something like this with spins. Anything more than a triple (I think?) doesn't add any extra points. So yeah, a septuple spin should be worth more than a triple spin if you were trying to encourage spins but it isn't and so no one does one (not that anyone could do a septuple anyway, but I was exaggerating to emphasize my point).

[Growsonwalls]

Pairs have been doing SBS triples for over 30 years. That's like saying to men "devalue the triple axel so it's not worth as much."

In fact in 1994 I believe G&G planned to do SBS triples but couldn't because of Sergei's injuries and back pain. Looking back it was such a warning sign that he was making uncharacteristic mistakes throughout the 1993-94 season and suffering from so much back pain. Still makes me sad to this day.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Growsonwalls

[SeanC]

20 hours ago, MaKaM said:

The point being no one would do triples if they weren't worth more. They would do doubles and could focus more on the pairs-specific things like lifts, twists, side-by-side step sequences, et cetera. The IJS could be tweaked to say "pairs is not about jumps. We want a minimum level of jumping but no need to be aiming for quads. All the falls are ruining the sport so, go do other things to get your points, the end." Gymnastics just did something like this with spins. Anything more than a triple (I think?) doesn't add any extra points. So yeah, a septuple spin should be worth more than a triple spin if you were trying to encourage spins but it isn't and so no one does one (not that anyone could do a septuple anyway, but I was exaggerating to emphasize my point).

Side-by-side jumps are a pairs-specific element, and a popular one with audiences.  Side-by-side triples have been a feature of the sport for decades, so trying to regress things back to the time when nobody was doing them would be absurd.  There is no reason to do so.

People who aren't interested in watching athletes pushing themselves technically are really more interested in show skating, not competition.  Which is fine, but that's not what the ISU is about.

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

People who aren't interested in watching athletes pushing themselves technically are really more interested in show skating, not competition.  Which is fine, but that's not what the ISU is about.

I believe throw triples & quads demand athletes pushing themselves. The variations in overhead lifts are certainly thrilling for fans & continue to get more complex, thus forcing athletes to push themselves.  So I don't see eliminating the two sets of side by side jumps as regressing, not when pairs' other elements continue to get more difficult. It's not going to happen, but it's something for some of us to think about.

[Mellowyellow]

23 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I think I’m in the minority on this board because I love the technical content. Mirai landing that clean triple axel? Nathan doing six quads? Elizabet landing a quad? I want more of that! That’s how sports move forward. 

I'll sit with you in the empty corner! 😂

I'm anti splatting but I love the harder jumps and the quads. When they nail them it is the biggest thrill for me like when Yuzuru, Nathan and Vincent threw down at Worlds this year. 

I get so much joy in seeing them try harder tech and nailing it. 

And they have gotten better!!!! Vincent's 4lutz/3Toe at Worlds was gorgeous. 

[Darknight]

The sport shouldn't move forward if that's means young girls and boys having hip and knee injuries. Stephen, Trusova, Sofia, Liu all young kids doing quads and 3a.  I don't mind quads and 3a however, I do mind people pushing young kids bodies to the point they don't even care what happens to them after sport.  Especially pushing quads and 3a with poor technique. Skating isn't forever. If done correctly and carefully its impressive. Quads and sometimes even a 3a jumping by kids is a huge no in my book. So far, the quad and 3a movement especially in ladies is getting younger and younger and will result in skaters leaver the sport faster and faster. 

Alyssa Liu is already doing quads and already had hip surgery and injuries. The 10 yo and 14 Russian skaters jumping quads probably won't last long and probably won't even make it to seniors at this rate. Add in staving yourself to jump.  Nathan Chen doing six quads is impressive but he had hip injuries too. People forget about the risks and injuries associated with doing these jumps. I don't mind the sport moving forward. However  at what cost to young bodies? It's cool now but it's not going to be cool when young skaters get major injuries and their bodies are messed up and most won't even make it into seniors. 

Don't get me wrong I'm impressed by Nathan and even Hanyu, I hope he lands his 4a but they're adults who make adult choices. I don't  mind the adults making their own choices. Both come back season after season and are careful with their training which is good for the sport.  As for kids, nope I'm not impressed because all I can think about are their young bodies and their short careers. Let's see if these young kids can still do quads and 3a's when they're 18 or 24 if they even have hips by then. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Darknight

[Jeddah]

6 hours ago, Darknight said:

The sport shouldn't move forward if that's means young girls and boys having hip and knee injuries. Stephen, Trusova, Sofia, Liu all young kids doing quads and 3a.  I don't mind quads and 3a however, I do mind people pushing young kids bodies to the point they don't even care what happens to them after sport.  Especially pushing quads and 3a with poor technique. Skating isn't forever. If done correctly and carefully its impressive. Quads and sometimes even a 3a jumping by kids is a huge no in my book. So far, the quad and 3a movement especially in ladies is getting younger and younger and will result in skaters leaver the sport faster and faster. 

Alyssa Liu is already doing quads and already had hip surgery and injuries. The 10 yo and 14 Russian skaters jumping quads probably won't last long and probably won't even make it to seniors at this rate. Add in staving yourself to jump.  Nathan Chen doing six quads is impressive but he had hip injuries too. People forget about the risks and injuries associated with doing these jumps. I don't mind the sport moving forward. However  at what cost to young bodies? It's cool now but it's not going to be cool when young skaters get major injuries and their bodies are messed up and most won't even make it into seniors. 

Don't get me wrong I'm impressed by Nathan and even Hanyu, I hope he lands his 4a but they're adults who make adult choices. I don't  mind the adults making their own choices. Both come back season after season and are careful with their training which is good for the sport.  As for kids, nope I'm not impressed because all I can think about are their young bodies and their short careers. Let's see if these young kids can still do quads and 3a's when they're 18 or 24 if they even have hips by then. 

Everyone I listed in my example is an adult.

I absolutely understand people’s issues with certain coaches and training methods. But I see a lot of complaints about quads/triple axels, or even jumps in pairs, ruining the sport. It’s not the jumps that are the problem.

[displayname]

It's tiny jumps that get goe and no ur calls that kill it, for me.

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, displayname said:

It's tiny jumps that get goe and no ur calls that kill it, for me.

Absolutely.  Me too.  There is no way the teeny tiny Russian style jumps should be getting such great scores for their GOE.  The quality of their jumps vs that of those who actually jump into the air is just not comparable.  Alas, the hierarchy in skating is skewed towards the Russian school of teeny tiny jumps and therefore, the actual quality of the triples and quads has deteriorated, IMO.  Unfortunately, the judging of the sport ignores underrotations by the favored skaters as well as the lack of height and length of their jumps. The standards for quality of the jump have been lowered drastically, IMO, and that's the real problem.  If Eteri's skaters weren't given top scores for mediocre jumps, a lot of the problems I have with today's skating would be gone.  And, as a bonus, I think that a lot of the young kids, girls especially, would be given the time to develop their overall technique and skill rather than working on triples and quads to the detriment of their skating and their health and longevity in the sport.

I don't think skating needs to outlaw triples and quads, it just needs to demand better execution before rewarding them.

Edited April 1, 2019 by doodlebug

[Darknight]

7 hours ago, Jeddah said:

Everyone I listed in my example is an adult.

I absolutely understand people’s issues with certain coaches and training methods. But I see a lot of complaints about quads/triple axels, or even jumps in pairs, ruining the sport. It’s not the jumps that are the problem.

Maybe because it's just jumps and nothing else. No skating skills. I don't think jumps ruin the sport judges do. They reward poor technique and make it known artistry and skating skills doesn't matter. It's all about the quads and 3a now. So of course skaters will only jump, jump, jump and not work on anything else because the judges don't care about anything else. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Darknight

[Darknight]

Seeing very young kids jump quads and 3a is very very concerning to me. USA fed and Russian fed right now are really pushing the quads. Canadian fed should also be worried about Stephen. I don't understand why an 8 or 10 yo is jumping quads or why a 13yo needs 5 quads. What's the point? Seriously they're kids with growing bodies. Does anyone care? I can't even watch videos of kids jumping dangerous jumps knowing they're ruining their bodies. It's all fun and games now. People praise these young stars for jumping quads and 3a. Saying they're making history, but at what cost?  It's not going to be fun getting hip replacement when you're not old enough to drink or vote. This reminds me of the baby ballerinas on pointe at 8 or 9. People think it's cool. When they're teens and can't dance anynore or we never hear from them again that's a problem. ISU should be looking at this and be concerned. Not encourage this kind of thing. Kids are at risk here. They can't consent and can't understand the consequences of their actions. 

[HartofDixie]

Alysa Liu quad lutz

[displayname]

13 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Alysa Liu quad lutz

That's not a real quad.

[displayname]

On 4/1/2019 at 6:44 PM, doodlebug said:

There is no way the teeny tiny Russian style jumps should be getting such great scores for their GOE.

Funnily though, Russian technique taught very big jumps. They lasted until about 2014, and still do with some men. SBS jumps in pairs are a problem too now.

Edited April 2, 2019 by displayname

[Darknight]

11 hours ago, displayname said:

That's not a real quad.

Judges- 5+,5+,5+,5+,5+,5+,4+,5+4+

Johnny and Tara- OMG what an amazing Quad. Watch out Russians. We have Liu doing quads and she has a 3a. 

Eurosport- That's not a quad. I don't understand why the judges gave her that score. 

Eurosport is the real MVP here. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Darknight

[iMonrey]

Quote

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/03/29/governing-body-knows-truth-behind-alleged-sexual-abuse/3313035002/

So sad and so bizarre. I wonder if we'll ever get to the bottom of it.

[HartofDixie]

Rachel Parsons leaving skating due to eating disorder.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rae_sk8er/status/1113231977992413185

Edited April 3, 2019 by HartofDixie

[MaKaM]

23 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Rachel Parsons

https://mobile.twitter.com/rae_sk8er/status/1113231977992413185

Hey HeartofDixie, would you maybe consider giving a brief summary/synopsis of the links you post? Sometimes it is hard to tell from the URL just what we might be getting into.

[annzeepark914]

Anorexia. That's so sad for Rachel, but good for her for stepping back from competitive skating to get her health issues taken care of. The Parsons were so good and on the rise. Tackling anorexia is tough. Good luck to Rachel.