Figure Skating

[andromeda331]

I liked Alysa and Mariah's routines. Hanna's too. Bradie's was good too but Alysa, Mariah and Hanna were my favorites. They were really good. I don't like the hype on Alysa. I know its the usual hype but she's too young for that. If only the fed would start learning from their mistakes and stop over hyping a skater. Its too much pressure and too many of them burn out. I know that'll never happen. As great as Alysa was I don't like a thirteen year old competing at the Nationals. That is way too young. I hated hearing it over and over in the European championships how none of the top three Russian winners of the Russian National could compete because they are too young. If they are too young to compete internationally, then they are too young to compete at the senior level. Keep them in the Juniors and if they make it to the Seniors that's great.

I was going to complain about Starr Andrews because she really seems like she could be really good but doesn't seem to be getting there but reading the other comments I've changed my mind. It sounds like her parents are part of the problem along with money. That's too bad. She really could be good. I liked Nathan's routine and Vincent's. I always go back and forth on Jason Brown sometimes his routines are really good and other times their boring.

The European competition was great I love watching skaters from different countries that rarely make it to the Olympics. Sweden! Finland! I'm sorry that Javiar is retiring! He's been my favorite for so long. Plus he's hot. I feel bad for Alina she could use a hug and a new coach. She'd be doing so much better.

[Darknight]

17 hours ago, SeanC said:

"Unnoticed" how?  Plenty of non-Eteri skaters are given Grand Prix and Junior Grand Prix assignments (the latter being more relevant this year since Alina is currently Eteri's only senior).  But at the events that determine the big ISU Championship assignments, Eteri's skaters dominate.  She had the entire podium at Russian Nationals this year, and not undeservedly based on how everybody skated.  We'll see how the Junior Nationals goes, but the odds would favour a repeat sweep.

Sorry, I guess unnoticed is the wrong word. There are other Russian skaters who have beaten Eteri skaters and some even have better technique than them. Their biggest rival is CSKA another Russian skating ring. I try to keep up with Russian skating. Last year or two years ago there were non Eteri skaters that beaten Eteri skaters at competitions including Grand Prix events. So I don't understand why the Federation doesn't look at these skaters when they do win or when they're doing well. Not including Sofia and Liza. I guess I'm looking at current Russia skaters and I'm thinking how wonderful they are but the federation doesn't support them for whatever reason. 

[NUguy514]

10 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

So sorry if this was discussed ad nauseum when it was first released but the other night NPR ran their 2016 Surya Bonaly story which implied strongly she was a victim of racism in the skating world.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/edge

 

This synopsis is thus given:

“Surya Bonaly was not your typical figure skater.  She was black. She was athletic. And she didn’t seem to care about artistry.  Her performances – punctuated by triple-triple jumps and other power moves – thrilled audiences around the world.  Yet, commentators claimed she couldn’t skate, and judges never gave her the high marks she felt she deserved.  But Surya didn’t accept that criticism.  Unlike her competitors – ice princesses who hid behind demure smiles – Surya made her feelings known.  And, at her final Olympic performance, she attempted one jump that flew in the face of the establishment, and marked her for life as a rebel. “

 

OK , first of all I realize that the people who did this story probably all had nonskating backgrounds but several things scream out to me.

First, Surya  burst out in the skating world in the senior level in 1989, but one of the most known skaters right before her emergence was Debbie Thomas, 2 time US national champhion,  3 time World Medalist including the 1986 World Champhion and who was in 1st place after the SP and was  a clean LP program away from winning the 88 Olympic Gold over Katarina Witt ( She stumbled badly and got the bronze).  Debbie was athletic and Black.

The radio show slights her more than somewhat pretending Debbie Thomas never existed.

Plus talking about Bonalys athleticism when she skated in the era of both Midorito Ito and Tonya Harding who were both IMO more athletic and combined both skating and HUGE jumps.

Lets not get me started on the assumption that in 1994 because Surya placed 4th at the Olympics and the top 3 didn’t go to Worlds she was a slam dunk at Worlds where she lost by a whisker to Yuma Sato who had  finished 5th at that same Olympics.

The  thing is I liked Surya at the time even while I recognized her glaring skating weaknesses.

However the axe to grind on that show just annoyed me.

Oh, Surya.  It's truly amazing the number of incredibly underrotated jumps she landed that should've been falls, but that poor child wouldn't have known a transition if one had bitch-slapped her in the face.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, NUguy514 said:

Oh, Surya.  It's truly amazing the number of incredibly underrotated jumps she landed that should've been falls, but that poor child wouldn't have known a transition if one had bitch-slapped her in the face.

Surya had more troubles than her race, amongst them, her nutty mother, a gymnastics coach no less, who insisted on coaching her as a skater and essentiall taught her to do tumbling runs on ice and then complained because the judges expected actual figure skating.  She was tremendously athletic and strong, it's too bad she never learned the fundamentals.  Her mother would 'choreograph' her programs which involved her running from one end of the ice to the other and muscling into a jump while looking ungainly.  With an illegal backflip or two thrown in for good measure.  Mama would then complain that the rules of the sport should be changed rather than her daughter adapt her skills to be competitve.

True story:  I attended the women's practice in Lillehammer the morning of the finals.  All of the top skaters were there including Surya with her mother.  Tons of fans (they charged us 5 bucks to watch) as well as a bunch of national and international media.  This was the Nancy-Tonya Olympics, there was a lot of press.  When Surya's group came out to practice, most conferred quietly with their coaches along the boards and then skated out and did their thing.  Surya's mother was the only one with her and Mama kept shouting and screaming at her across the ice, calling her names, telling her she was a loser, that she was ashamed of her (I speak a little French and even I understood too much of it).  Surya skated around the rink, shaking with tears streaming down her face while the other skaters looked so sorry for her.  I feel sorry that Surya never reached her potential as a skater, but her race was far from the biggest factor in that, IMO.

Edited February 2, 2019 by doodlebug

[displayname]

39 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

True story:  I attended the women's practice in Lillehammer the morning of the finals.  All of the top skaters were there including Surya with her mother.  Tons of fans (they charged us 5 bucks to watch) as well as a bunch of national and international media.  This was the Nancy-Tonya Olympics, there was a lot of press.  When Surya's group came out to practice, most conferred quietly with their coaches along the boards and then skated out and did their thing.  Surya's mother was the only one with her and Mama kept shouting and screaming at her across the ice, calling her names, telling her she was a loser, that she was ashamed of her (I speak a little French and even I understood too much of it).  Surya skated around the rink, shaking with tears streaming down her face while the other skaters looked so sorry for her.  I feel sorry that Surya never reached her potential as a skater, but her race was far from the biggest factor in that, IMO.

Wow, that's awful.

[stet]

Surya not only had to deal with her mother, but also Didier. 

No wonder why she had a hissyfit on the podium at 1994 Worlds. (She probably thought her mom was going to kill her.)

Despite this, she lived with her mom until she was in her 40s, when she moved to Minnesota to be with her boyfriend. She’s coaching kids and she appears to be thoughtful and well-adjusted now. Here’s a long but enjoyable read from 2016.

[Darknight]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Surya had more troubles than her race, amongst them, her nutty mother, a gymnastics coach no less, who insisted on coaching her as a skater and essentiall taught her to do tumbling runs on ice and then complained because the judges expected actual figure skating.  She was tremendously athletic and strong, it's too bad she never learned the fundamentals.  Her mother would 'choreograph' her programs which involved her running from one end of the ice to the other and muscling into a jump while looking ungainly.  With an illegal backflip or two thrown in for good measure.  Mama would then complain that the rules of the sport should be changed rather than her daughter adapt her skills to be competitve.

True story:  I attended the women's practice in Lillehammer the morning of the finals.  All of the top skaters were there including Surya with her mother.  Tons of fans (they charged us 5 bucks to watch) as well as a bunch of national and international media.  This was the Nancy-Tonya Olympics, there was a lot of press.  When Surya's group came out to practice, most conferred quietly with their coaches along the boards and then skated out and did their thing.  Surya's mother was the only one with her and Mama kept shouting and screaming at her across the ice, calling her names, telling her she was a loser, that she was ashamed of her (I speak a little French and even I understood too much of it).  Surya skated around the rink, shaking with tears streaming down her face while the other skaters looked so sorry for her.  I feel sorry that Surya never reached her potential as a skater, but her race was far from the biggest factor in that, IMO.

Omg how sad. She had so much potential too. I wish she had good coaching. Her mom is toxic. Thanks for sharing. 

You know what sucks. The USA Federation and the ISU keeps pulling videos offline. Now wonder why figure skating doesn't get much attention. How will people watch if you keep taking videos down. Ugh. 

[Growsonwalls]

6 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Surya had more troubles than her race, amongst them, her nutty mother, a gymnastics coach no less, who insisted on coaching her as a skater and essentiall taught her to do tumbling runs on ice and then complained because the judges expected actual figure skating.  She was tremendously athletic and strong, it's too bad she never learned the fundamentals.  Her mother would 'choreograph' her programs which involved her running from one end of the ice to the other and muscling into a jump while looking ungainly.  With an illegal backflip or two thrown in for good measure.  Mama would then complain that the rules of the sport should be changed rather than her daughter adapt her skills to be competitve.

True story:  I attended the women's practice in Lillehammer the morning of the finals.  All of the top skaters were there including Surya with her mother.  Tons of fans (they charged us 5 bucks to watch) as well as a bunch of national and international media.  This was the Nancy-Tonya Olympics, there was a lot of press.  When Surya's group came out to practice, most conferred quietly with their coaches along the boards and then skated out and did their thing.  Surya's mother was the only one with her and Mama kept shouting and screaming at her across the ice, calling her names, telling her she was a loser, that she was ashamed of her (I speak a little French and even I understood too much of it).  Surya skated around the rink, shaking with tears streaming down her face while the other skaters looked so sorry for her.  I feel sorry that Surya never reached her potential as a skater, but her race was far from the biggest factor in that, IMO.

Wow. That's a horrible story. 

The weird thing about Eteri is that she seems to revel in these extremely cringe-worthy practice videos. There are tons of them online. Tearful girls, her berating them and making them do repetition after repetition until they are a crumple of tears. She seems to view them as advertisements. Maybe in Russia some parents will watch those videos and think that she's an effective coach? Because how many there are on YT can't be an accident. She wants these videos to be seen.

[CeeBeeGee]

18 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

So sorry if this was discussed ad nauseum when it was first released but the other night NPR ran their 2016 Surya Bonaly story which implied strongly she was a victim of racism in the skating world.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/edge

 

This synopsis is thus given:

“Surya Bonaly was not your typical figure skater.  She was black. She was athletic. And she didn’t seem to care about artistry.  Her performances – punctuated by triple-triple jumps and other power moves – thrilled audiences around the world.  Yet, commentators claimed she couldn’t skate, and judges never gave her the high marks she felt she deserved.  But Surya didn’t accept that criticism.  Unlike her competitors – ice princesses who hid behind demure smiles – Surya made her feelings known.  And, at her final Olympic performance, she attempted one jump that flew in the face of the establishment, and marked her for life as a rebel. “

 

OK , first of all I realize that the people who did this story probably all had nonskating backgrounds but several things scream out to me.

First, Surya  burst out in the skating world in the senior level in 1989, but one of the most known skaters right before her emergence was Debbie Thomas, 2 time US national champhion,  3 time World Medalist including the 1986 World Champhion and who was in 1st place after the SP and was  a clean LP program away from winning the 88 Olympic Gold over Katarina Witt ( She stumbled badly and got the bronze).  Debbie was athletic and Black.

The radio show slights her more than somewhat pretending Debbie Thomas never existed.

Plus talking about Bonalys athleticism when she skated in the era of both Midorito Ito and Tonya Harding who were both IMO more athletic and combined both skating and HUGE jumps.

Lets not get me started on the assumption that in 1994 because Surya placed 4th at the Olympics and the top 3 didn’t go to Worlds she was a slam dunk at Worlds where she lost by a whisker to Yuma Sato who had  finished 5th at that same Olympics.

The  thing is I liked Surya at the time even while I recognized her glaring skating weaknesses.

However the axe to grind on that show just annoyed me.

 

What irritates me about the "Surya wuz robbed" is this--in what universe are three Worlds SILVERS and MULTIPLE European golds anything but a slam dunk in figure skating? That's more than many better skaters than she have achieved. These articles always seem to be written by people who don't understand how figure skating works. Jumps are great, but other elements (spins, spirals, step sequences, decent choreography, etc.) also count.

[Mellowyellow]

Aiiiiii Excited for 4CC I looked up Junhwan Cha's FS for Korean Nationals......eek

He was a hot mess! How can he compete at 4CC in that state? Most of his jumps looked botched! I was hoping he'd do well after getting bronze at the GP but that did not look good! 

Brian Orser is sooooo calm! I thought he'd at least look rattled after that skate but he was surprisingly serene! 

[MaKaM]

11 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Wow. That's a horrible story. 

The weird thing about Eteri is that she seems to revel in these extremely cringe-worthy practice videos. There are tons of them online. Tearful girls, her berating them and making them do repetition after repetition until they are a crumple of tears. She seems to view them as advertisements. Maybe in Russia some parents will watch those videos and think that she's an effective coach? Because how many there are on YT can't be an accident. She wants these videos to be seen.

Yeah, it might be a cultural difference. There was a documentary about a rhythmic gymnast and her coach and the head of the federation were simply awful to her--emotional abuse out the wazoo. The documentarian was worried they would be upset about their portrayal (even though it was simply showing what happened) but they were actually pleased.

[Growsonwalls]

43 minutes ago, MaKaM said:

Yeah, it might be a cultural difference. There was a documentary about a rhythmic gymnast and her coach and the head of the federation were simply awful to her--emotional abuse out the wazoo. The documentarian was worried they would be upset about their portrayal (even though it was simply showing what happened) but they were actually pleased.

On the other hand there was a documentary about a ballet student in a Russian ballet academy where the student suffered from an eating disorder. And while the teachers were very strict and tough one of them did say that unless the girl started eating she would "call the ambulance" and sat down and pleaded with her to eat something and was picking things that she thought the ballet student might want to eat. 

So I do think that the extreme coldness to her athletes is an Eteri thing, and not necessarily a Russian thing.

[MaKaM]

7 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

On the other hand there was a documentary about a ballet student in a Russian ballet academy where the student suffered from an eating disorder. And while the teachers were very strict and tough one of them did say that unless the girl started eating she would "call the ambulance" and sat down and pleaded with her to eat something and was picking things that she thought the ballet student might want to eat. 

So I do think that the extreme coldness to her athletes is an Eteri thing, and not necessarily a Russian thing.

I mean, that's nice that the teacher noticed and was concerned, but that simply isn't how you treat eating disorders. In fact, trying to make them eat can exacerbate the problem. I'm sure (hope) it was out of ignorance but calling the ambulance is actually the better option. Teachers/coaches maybe aren't educated enough on the subject in either country. And for all that Raf was getting kudos for his interactions with Mariah Bell, he has been a part of the problem in the past. From an article on Adam Rippon's disordered eating:

Quote

Rippon also adopted his draconian diet. “I’d do a few days having my three pieces of bread and then finish the whole loaf of bread and have 3,000 calories,” he said, adding that he would tell his coach: “‘Rafael, this is what I’m eating.’ And he said, ‘I know. It’s really hard.’”

Arutyunyan said he had since learned to address his skaters’ weight with a new vocabulary, in his nonnative English, and realized that he could not be as blunt as when he worked in the Soviet system and thought nothing of calling an athlete “fat.” In the United States, he said, he has attended seminars that drove home the point that “it’s kind of abusive or maybe they can get sick.”

So now Arutyunyan will tell his skaters that they look sluggish or that they need to be in better shape. “But basically,” he said, “same time I’m thinking, ‘O.K., how I can make elephant to fly?’”

I think it was training with Frank Carroll that broke Gracie Gold so it isn't just a Russian thing (though the emphasis on youth there is going to cause problems as skaters try to delay puberty or starve it away once it happens).

[ML89]

13 minutes ago, MaKaM said:

Quote

Rippon also adopted his draconian diet. “I’d do a few days having my three pieces of bread and then finish the whole loaf of bread and have 3,000 calories,” he said, adding that he would tell his coach: “‘Rafael, this is what I’m eating.’ And he said, ‘I know. It’s really hard.’”

Arutyunyan said he had since learned to address his skaters’ weight with a new vocabulary, in his nonnative English, and realized that he could not be as blunt as when he worked in the Soviet system and thought nothing of calling an athlete “fat.” In the United States, he said, he has attended seminars that drove home the point that “it’s kind of abusive or maybe they can get sick.”

So now Arutyunyan will tell his skaters that they look sluggish or that they need to be in better shape. “But basically,” he said, “same time I’m thinking, ‘O.K., how I can make elephant to fly?’”

I think it was training with Frank Carroll that broke Gracie Gold so it isn't just a Russian thing (though the emphasis on youth there is going to cause problems as skaters try to delay puberty or starve it away once it happens).

First, Rippon was living in Raf's HOUSE and he wasn't concerned Adam was eating an apple or a piece of bread because he didn't have money? That bothered the absolute hell out of me. I was okay with Mariah teasing him but I hope he's gotten better. Make an elephant fly? Really.

Yeah, Carroll and Chris Bowman's relationship wasn't great either...  There is a lot of sickness in skating/gymnastics coaching relationships. 

[Darknight]

Coaches like Eteri is nothing new. Especially here. I think other countries like Russia accepts it more openly. I mean Eteri admitted she encourages her skaters not to eat and isn't afraid to do whatever she wants to them. Even weigh them and call them fat if they gain a pound. Here, coaches are more private about that thing because imgaine a coach telling a skater to lose weight to the media and says they told their skater not to drink water. It does happen. I mean Valeri Lukin weighs his gymnasts and forces them to starve if they got fat. Martha and Bela abused and starved their gymnasts but they didn't tell this to the media and speak openly about it. There are dance teachers who are like Eteri too. Sadly, I also blame parents too if they know this is going on but medals and fame are more important. 

 

Also, here, parents can sue coaches. 

 

As for RAF, he use to coach in Russia. He knows the system there. He has that centralized Soviet union thinking/coaching. He said he was worse when he first came here and started coaching but had to change. I still have flaws with him but at least he acknowledged he can't treat his students like that. 

[Darknight]

I don't know Russian but was watching and reading about junior worlds and other stuff going on in Russia. My heart breaks for Alena. I mean she skaters so perfectly and with ease. Her skating skills and transitions are so beautiful. She has a bit of a flat edge and starting to have a flutz but  she is a beautiful skater. The music and choreography are awful but she makes it work so well. She truly is a gem. I heard Russian Federation doesn't want to send 3 Eteri skaters(I'm shocked there are Russians and Russian coaches that hate her) It would be sad if Anna and Alexandra goes senior next year and Alena doesn't. I hope it's not true because artistry and amazing skating skills should win too. Jason Brown anyone? Alexandra is just all quads. She can't win without them. Anna, I don't understand why she is trying to do quads because she can't land most of them but Anna is a mix of Alexandra and Alena. She does have artistry and quads but I think she can win without quads. 

 

Also, I decided to watch the skating lesson today. I'm not a fan but the skater they had on said something very important regarding USA skating. He said the Japanese skaters have very strong basics. They know how to control the blade, their edges, and shift their weight. Many USA skaters don't have good basics. I've been saying this for the longest time. The USA federation didn't catch up with the new scoring system. Other countries did. They made their scoring system harder. I see Russia and Japan call out UR and technique issues. USA fed is the worse when it comes to judging and inflation. Even at the younger levels they don't call out edges or under rotations. The coaching here might be lacking too. I'm not saying there are bad coaches here, but maybe coaches can get some support to help skaters have strong basics. On top of that the USA federation should make their scoring system better. Call out technique issues and don't ignore them. Sure, a USA skater might do well here, but the international judges will call them out. 

[Mellowyellow]

I don't know why but I don't enjoy Trusova's skating. When Alina burst in as the new jumping bean I still adored her programs and thought she was charming. I just don't feel it with Trusova and I love jumpers normally. 

I LOVE watching Nathan and his jumps!

[HartofDixie]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/01/30/police-say-figure-skater-john-coughlin-died-by-hanging/2727268002/

[Darknight]

20 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I don't know why but I don't enjoy Trusova's skating. When Alina burst in as the new jumping bean I still adored her programs and thought she was charming. I just don't feel it with Trusova and I love jumpers normally. 

I LOVE watching Nathan and his jumps!

Trusova can't win without quads. She isn't a good spinner and other aspects of her skating skills are lacking. I read they only focus on her quads but might focus on her 3a along with Alena's 3a. I'm worried for Trusova and Anna but mostly Trusova because all she does is quad after quad. That's not good for her body at all. I'm hoping she stays healthy but knowing Eteri, she might have one good season in Seniors then have a bunch of injuries. 

 

At least Anna and Alena win without quads. In every competition this year from what I've seen Alena always beats Trusova in the short. Even Anna beats Trusova sometimes in the short.  Quads are banned in the short. Yesterday Alena was leading by 10 points against Trusova in the short. If Russia fed holds Alena back just because she doesn't have quads I'm going to be really upset. I don't want to see just jumps here and there but a well rounded program. Alena has beautiful jumps, spins, and artistry. I also think Russia fed is trying to keep up with Rika and the Japanese because now they're also pushing for the 3a. I guess the ISU will now be forced to change the rules once again(hoepfully) to limit quads in the ladies or even ban them if skaters get injuries I suspect the ISU change the rules for quads in the men's because of Nathan Chen. 

Seeing the tactics Eteri uses, I'm wondering if she knows any gymnastics coaches or gymnasts. They use the same tactics as her. Starving skaters, pitting then against each other, having a favorite, pushing skaters to skate injuried, her ship in and shape up approach. 

6 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/01/30/police-say-figure-skater-john-coughlin-died-by-hanging/2727268002/

I'm sorry John took his life but this should still be investigated. 

[displayname]

I think Trusova will develop. I am more worried about Eteri's capabilities with quads.

[SeanC]

6 hours ago, Darknight said:

Yesterday Alena was leading by 10 points against Trusova in the short.

Because Trusova fell.  Normally it's only about a 1-2 points.

Quote

If Russia fed holds Alena back just because she doesn't have quads I'm going to be really upset. 

I'm not sure where you're getting that idea.  There's no prospect of that happening (a federation can't hold a skater back, anyway, if they want to move up); the top three Russian juniors have the potential to sweep the Worlds podium, which the federation certainly wants.

Quote

I guess the ISU will now be forced to change the rules once again(hoepfully) to limit quads in the ladies or even ban them if skaters get injuries I suspect the ISU change the rules for quads in the men's because of Nathan Chen.

If the experiment with ladies doing quads doesn't work out long-term, it's more likely you'll just see skaters themselves back off from doing them than the ISU banning them, particularly because the big feds with skaters doing quads will resist any such move.

The quad repetition rule didn't really have anything to do with Nathan in particular -- indeed, as the skater with the most different types of quads, in theory the rule is an advantage for him (though in practice he hasn't been trying to use all five at once; the quad loop has been MIA for a long time).  The repetition rule was to reward those with multiple quads.

Edited February 5, 2019 by SeanC

[Darknight]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Because Trusova fell.  Normally it's only about a 1-2 points.

I'm not sure where you're getting that idea.  There's no prospect of that happening (a federation can't hold a skater back, anyway, if they want to move up); the top three Russian juniors have the potential to sweep the Worlds podium, which the federation certainly wants.

If the experiment with ladies doing quads doesn't work out long-term, it's more likely you'll just see skaters themselves back off from doing them than the ISU banning them, particularly because the big feds with skaters doing quads will resist any such move.

The quad repetition rule didn't really have anything to do with Nathan in particular -- indeed, as the skater with the most different types of quads, in theory the rule is an advantage for him (though in practice he hasn't been trying to use all five at once; the quad loop has been MIA for a long time).  The repetition rule was to reward those with multiple quads.

I was talking about Alena and Trusova's PCS scores. Alena had higher PCS scores above Trusova then suddenly Trusova's  PCS scores rises big time. 

 

Also, I wouldn't put it pass Russian Federation to do what they want. A federation can do whatever they want with skaters. They can hold a skater back or put them forward. Skating politics. 

 

I don't know how the quads in ladies will hold up. I'm not convinced until a grown woman lands one instead of children. 

[displayname]

11 hours ago, SeanC said:

indeed, as the skater with the most different types of quads, in theory the rule is an advantage for him (though in practice he hasn't been trying to use all five at once; the quad loop has been MIA for a long time). 

This is pretty much fake promotion for the Olympics at this point. Got the 4Lo in before the Olympics, so that he can go in packaged as the guy who can jump all five quads. His 4S is missing too. He has 3 consistent ones, and only 2 done with any real quality.

Edited February 5, 2019 by displayname

[SeanC]

28 minutes ago, displayname said:

This is pretty much fake promotion for the Olympics at this point. Got the 4Lo in before the Olympics, so that he can go in packaged as the guy who can jump all five quads. His 4S is missing too. He has 3 consistent ones, and only 2 done with any real quality.

The Salchow worked fine enough, but since he’s only doing 4 quads this season as opposed to the 5-6 he was attempting at various points last year, it’s sensible to focus on his best ones.

[displayname]

55 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The Salchow worked fine enough, but since he’s only doing 4 quads this season as opposed to the 5-6 he was attempting at various points last year, it’s sensible to focus on his best ones.

The salchow isn't that great of a jump for him. It's absent this season. He's just not a great edge jumper.

Edited February 5, 2019 by displayname

[Darknight]

Alina has a deal with Puma. I'm so happy for her. Also, here's an interview but it is in Russian

 

 I need to study Russian now. Maybe someone can translate. 

 

I'm also trying to watch 4continents. 

[annzeepark914]

2 hours ago, Darknight said:

Alina has a deal with Puma. I'm so happy for her. Also, here's an interview but it is in Russian

 

 

 

Yay! Maybe she'll make enough money to pay a US coach and be able to live here while training. At least she'd be treated like a human being.

[ChicksDigScars]

For those wanting to check results and skate order for 4CC:

 

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/fc2019/

[Mellowyellow]

@annzeepark914 @Darknight I literally squeed with joy when I saw her land that Puma deal. 

She's such a beautiful and talented girl! Gotta cash in while that medal is still hot. I'm so happy whenever she does an ad. She's also got a Japanese bedding deal with her dog. 

Apparently Russia gave her a modest apartment as well for the OGM. Very modest from what people say but a free apartment is a free apartment. 

[Darknight]

18 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

@annzeepark914 @Darknight I literally squeed with joy when I saw her land that Puma deal. 

She's such a beautiful and talented girl! Gotta cash in while that medal is still hot. I'm so happy whenever she does an ad. She's also got a Japanese bedding deal with her dog. 

Apparently Russia gave her a modest apartment as well for the OGM. Very modest from what people say but a free apartment is a free apartment. 

She also got a car and a monthly salary/check for life from Russian federation for winning the OGM. Too bad she was also bashed in the process. I'm so happy for her. I hope she gets more endorsement deals. 

[Darknight]

On 2/5/2019 at 6:07 PM, annzeepark914 said:

Yay! Maybe she'll make enough money to pay a US coach and be able to live here while training. At least she'd be treated like a human being.

Sadly, I don't think Alina would do this. Maybe I'm wrong because I never ever thought Medeveda would leave Russia for Canada but Alina seems so different. I think after this season she is done. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see her lasting another season with Eteri. Alina has done her job. She won juniors, Russian nationals, Europeans, and OGM. She is no longer needed in Eteri's eyes. She has fresh brand new not gone through puberty yet skaters who can jump quads. 

 

Sad because she doesn't deserve this. I hate her programs this year. I hated how she was treated. I'm happy Japan adopted her as their own but the way Russia treated her was disgusting. You can tell she loves to skate and is a hard worker but Eteri doesn't do well with puberty or fixing technique. Alina grew on me and it's sad how her season is going. I'm hoping she does good at worlds. 

21 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

For those wanting to check results and skate order for 4CC:

 

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/fc2019/

I read Rika hurt her finger and has boot issues. Poor girl. 

[Mellowyellow]

49 minutes ago, Darknight said:

She also got a car and a monthly salary/check for life from Russian federation for winning the OGM. Too bad she was also bashed in the process. I'm so happy for her. I hope she gets more endorsement deals. 

I am so glad to hear she gets a life salary. I've always been under the impression that her family is not well off and she has said herself she wants to help them. I think she's got a lot on her shoulders.

Yeah like you I don't see her moving on her own accord. There was always something very shrewd about Zhenya (I mean this as a good thing, I adore Zhenya too) that I don't see in Alina.

Maybe Eteri will send Alina packing and she'll be forced to find a new coach. If they are going to get rid of her I rather they straight out dump her so she can move on if she wants to keep skating. I don't think Rusfed will support another overseas venture but maybe she can get another Russian coach. 

I actually think the Brian Orser team would be really good for Alina's temperament but that's a pipe dream. 

***

Yes poor Rika. She was wearing two different boots on each foot last I heard 😢

I hope she's going to be ok. 

[Mellowyellow]

Braaaaadie!!!!! Nooooooo

She popped the looped but performed her heart out. I feel like she should have podiumed 😣

***

Rika, oh crazy wonderful Rika. I'm too upset about Bradie right now to enjoy your victory but you were awesome. 

[Darknight]

Seriously, I hate Johnny and Tara. This is why I love eurosport or other countries commentary. It sucks I'm blocked because I'm in the USA. Did Jonny say Eunsoo can't improve or develop more because she is 15? Umm she is 15 Johnny. A child. Shutup please. 

Rika, she didn't do well in juniors. Now she is killing it in seniors and it's her first year! I actually ( hope not hate towards Alina) she wins worlds. I'm so happy she has confidence and is being paced and being smart. It's interesting to see the Russians taking over juniors but the Japanese taking over seniors in my opinion. 

Ting, I wish she would get a sports psychologist or have some confidence. She needs consistency. 

I was pissed Vincent was first after the short. His UR's are a problem.

I'm not a fan of Brandie at all. Her skating does nothing for me. 

Elizabeth doing a quad at 19 and placing second is very interesting. I was happy seeing her on the podium next to Japan. 

Also, USA federation stop pushing Alysa Liu down out throats. Why is Alysa even there? Seriously, the USA federation is similar to Russian fed in terms of pushing young ladies and the hot new thing.  They push the baby ballerinas and don't care about their health. Alysa is 13 not 23. She hasn't even qualified internationally yet. Let her grow. Relax. Stop pushing her everywhere and saying she will win the 2022 Olympics. It's annoying at this point. 

[Darknight]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:48 PM, Mellowyellow said:

I am so glad to hear she gets a life salary. I've always been under the impression that her family is not well off and she has said herself she wants to help them. I think she's got a lot on her shoulders.

Yeah like you I don't see her moving on her own accord. There was always something very shrewd about Zhenya (I mean this as a good thing, I adore Zhenya too) that I don't see in Alina.

Maybe Eteri will send Alina packing and she'll be forced to find a new coach. If they are going to get rid of her I rather they straight out dump her so she can move on if she wants to keep skating. I don't think Rusfed will support another overseas venture but maybe she can get another Russian coach. 

I actually think the Brian Orser team would be really good for Alina's temperament but that's a pipe dream. 

***

Yes poor Rika. She was wearing two different boots on each foot last I heard 😢

I hope she's going to be ok. 

Her family isn't rich but they're not exactly poor from what I read. Her father is a hockey coach I believe. I would love to see her with Mishin but I doubt that would happen. I mean look at the hate Brian got for taking Medeveda. I mean she can probably go to CSKA but that's Eteri's biggest rival. There are other skating rings but she won't get the Eteri bonus(I call it that, meaning her technique will be called out. Look at Medeveda. She went undefeated for two seasons with her bad technique,  now it's being called out. Even Alina got away with bad technique before  winning the OGM but her technique was better than Medeveda. For some reason Eteri skaters are protected in my opinion. These are just my thoughts. Maybe that'll change with the new scoring system).

On top of that if she does leave, I'm afraid Eteri will bash her and expect flowers. Eteri will bring up text messages and bring Medvedeva into it then call Alina ungrateful and lazy. I don't know what her future holds but I hope whatever she does she's happy. I mean it takes guts to move away from her entire family at 12 and  train every day. She won me over with her red ballerina program. A year ago, she won everything but worlds. Now a year later my heart is just hurting for her.

[Mellowyellow]

I have to add I did not care for Elizabeth at all. This is my first time seeing her skate. Her skating and jumps looked wobbly and she was boring!!!!

***

On another note: Junhwan Cha!!!!! OMG!!!! SQUEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE his SP!!!!! As much as Juuuuuulieeeeeeeeeet!!!!!! For some reason I haven't seen it before and it was awesome! The clock thing was awesome and he's such a cutie *swoons*

It was also hilarious to see Brian Orser bounce up and down during the skate.

I am looking forward to Juuuuuulieeeeeeeeeet. I hope he skates well and I hope he does the loop right on Juuuuuulieeeeeeeeeet or else I'll be disappointed! 

[specialj67]

While I fully understand both teams have their technical and/or artistic limitations, I have been enjoying Kayne/O’Shea and Cain/Le Duc this season waaay more than the Knierims for, like, the past 3 seasons. 

Also, Kirsten Moore-Towers deserves to win all of the medals.

That is all.

[Ruby Gillis]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:48 PM, Mellowyellow said:

Maybe Eteri will send Alina packing and she'll be forced to find a new coach. If they are going to get rid of her I rather they straight out dump her so she can move on if she wants to keep skating. I don't think Rusfed will support another overseas venture but maybe she can get another Russian coach. 

I think Eteri will probably send her packing next season right?  Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaia will all be seniors then?  They only needed poor Alina this year to get world spots for next year.  I would love to see Alina develop and hope she could get a new coach if Eteri dumped her.  

4 hours ago, Darknight said:

I'm not a fan of Brandie at all. Her skating does nothing for me. 

I haven't enjoyed her skating, but she has been much better this year than last year.  I would just enjoy having an American woman who isn't mentally damaged by the sport and continues to grow.  As she gets older, she might show more of her personality and connect more with the music.  

1 hour ago, specialj67 said:

While I fully understand both teams have their technical and/or artistic limitations, I have been enjoying Kayne/O’Shea and Cain/Le Duc this season waaay more than the Knierims for, like, the past 3 seasons. 

Chris Knierim's costume in the long program really freaks me out.  With the black turtleneck and long villainous widow's peak looming over Alexa looks so ominous.  

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

I decided to watch the skating lesson today. I'm not a fan but the skater they had on said something very important regarding USA skating. He said the Japanese skaters have very strong basics. They know how to control the blade, their edges, and shift their weight. Many USA skaters don't have good basics. I've been saying this for the longest time. The USA federation didn't catch up with the new scoring system. Other countries did. They made their scoring system harder.

I think the USA federation is looking at the hard reality of the declining popularity of figure skating in general.  As fewer and fewer potential competitive skaters enter programs you don't want to discourage them with the "boring" basics.  That's why they don't do figures anymore.  And it should be noted that figures led to strong basic skills.

 

[specialj67]

It really is too bad about the final result for Bradie and Kaori at 4CC. Outside of the single jump error each made, their programs were otherwise very nice. Honestly, even with those errors, I would have placed either of them in the podium instead of Elizabet.

[Mellowyellow]

4 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

It really is too bad about the final result for Bradie and Kaori at 4CC. Outside of the single jump error each made, their programs were otherwise very nice. Honestly, even with those errors, I would have placed either of them in the podium instead of Elizabet.

I honestly don't get how she got a silver. The program was dull as, she had no artistry or passion and her jumps looked as sketchy as hell. 

Mihara looked way superior compared to her. Honestly I'm baffled. She was... not good at all. 

[SeanC]

Super Rika does it again.  It's really remarkable how tailored her strengths and weaknesses are for the scoring system.  Because she's usually the only one doing a triple Axel, and her competitors are doing a double that is worth less than half as much, popping her most valuable jump in the short only leads to her losing around 4-5 points, in comparison to the 10+ points she gains when she lands it.  So she's always in striking distance even with that error.

In pairs, it's great to have Sui/Han back, even if the side-by-sides are unfortunately still a problem.

KMT's puzzled reaction to them being in first place after the short program was hilarious.  That was probably the best she and Michael have ever skated.

2 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

 That's why they don't do figures anymore. 

Do you mean in competition?  They got rid of figures in the 1980s, because having competitions turn on how people did in a super-boring challenge that nobody watched was bad for the sport's image.

2 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

It really is too bad about the final result for Bradie and Kaori at 4CC. Outside of the single jump error each made, their programs were otherwise very nice. Honestly, even with those errors, I would have placed either of them in the podium instead of Elizabet.

If it had been just a single jump error, Bradie would have been on the podium.  But that wasn't it, she also had four URs.

Kaori's problem was that she didn't just single an Axel (relatively minor), she also lost the three-jump combination that it was supposed to be.  She tagged the 2T onto a later jump, but couldn't put the 3T in.  She lost 7-8 points there.

[displayname]

6 hours ago, Darknight said:

I'm not a fan of Brandie at all.

I can tell. Her name is Bradie 😁

[BelleBrit]

Quote

Quote

9 hours ago, Darknight said:

Rika, she didn't do well in juniors. Now she is killing it in seniors and it's her first year! I actually ( hope not hate towards Alina) she wins worlds. I'm so happy she has confidence and is being paced and being smart. It's interesting to see the Russians taking over juniors but the Japanese taking over seniors in my opinion. 

I wouldn't say that Rika didn't do well in juniors, even though she never managed a worlds medal or a junior grand prix final medal, she consistently medaled on the jgp/made the final, and beat top senior skaters at her nationals, usually a mistake like popping her triple axel into a single would cost her a lot of points. That's why it's so great to see her doing so well now!  I hope that she has a long senior career.  I figured that Ting would bomb the lp after skating well in the short, she has so much potential but is very hot and cold so far....jr worlds will be telling. 

And while I love Raf's personality and appreciate that he's a great coach, I still find him a bit overrated and scratch my head when people suggest sending skaters to him as a fix (which I've seen suggested for Ting).  Other than his success with Nathan Chen (which still got away from them at the Olympics-and for which, Raf quickly threw Nathans' family under the bus for, which is just kind of a tacky move and a habit for him to distance himself as soon as one of his own skaters falters, I've noticed), Eunsoo kind of imploded at Korean nationals and she couldn't capitalize on other's mistakes here, Marin got further behind in her country's pack of ladies on the grand prix and at her nationals, and while Mariah has improved, she continues to throw away some perfectly great opportunities to walk through an opening. Plus, while Ashley is clearly an independent thinker, I still tend to think that he mismanaged Ashley's last year in the Olympic quad/it was his idea for her to keep Moulin Rouge last year, which seemed to be a big tactical error.

Edited February 9, 2019 by BelleBrit

[Darknight]

1 hour ago, BelleBrit said:

And while I love Raf's personality and appreciate that he's a great coach, I still find him a bit overrated and scratch my head when people suggest sending skaters to him as a fix (which I've seen suggested for Ting).  Other than his success with Nathan Chen (which still got away from them at the Olympics-and for which, Raf quickly threw Nathans' family under the bus for, which is just kind of a tacky move and a habit for him to distance himself as soon as one of his own skaters falters, I've noticed), Eunsoo kind of imploded at Korean nationals and she couldn't capitalize on other's mistakes here, Marin got further behind in her country's pack of ladies on the grand prix and at her nationals, and while Mariah has improved, she continues to throw away some perfectly great opportunities to walk through an opening. Plus, while Ashley is clearly an independent thinker, I still tend to think that he mismanaged Ashley's last year in the Olympic quad/it was his idea for her to keep Moulin Rouge last year, which seemed to be a big tactical error.

Yes. Tom Z too. I like RAF but I don't understand why people tell skaters to go to him and Tom Z or Frank. I think RAF said his seniors and Nathan has most of his attention. I think there are wonderful unknown coaches here. I don't believe big name coaches is the right fit for everyone. 

[Darknight]

5 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I think the USA federation is looking at the hard reality of the declining popularity of figure skating in general.  As fewer and fewer potential competitive skaters enter programs you don't want to discourage them with the "boring" basics.  That's why they don't do figures anymore.  And it should be noted that figures led to strong basic skills.

 

They need to accept figure skating here will be never  be popular like it was in the 90s. I remember skaters could making a living skating in the 90s. Skating was shown on TV and everywhere. Also, there will never be another Michelle Kwan. I hate how they hype skaters up as the next Michelle. This is why I believe the USA is falling further behind. They don't have good basics. I understand skating is an expensive sport and skaters and parents don't want to keep focusing on the same thing but good basics is important. I also think coaches and USA fed don't want to lose skaters or money so they ignore the basics. However, this doesn't help skaters. 

5 hours ago, displayname said:

I can tell. Her name is Bradie 😁

Wow. I kept calling her Brandie forever. It's Bradie. Thanks. Now I feel like an idiot for not looking at her name right. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

 Mostly, women's singles are getting boring to me.  It's all about jumps, the music is mostly bland, and the obsession with quads/triples is out of hand.  If TPTB are going to allow triples and quads for the women then I want them to be super strict about.  I don't think they are.  Frankly, I'd like to see quads banned for women and quints banned from men.

The pairs/ice dance are more my thing these days, and that is something I though I would never, ever type.

[specialj67]

Does some of the inconsistency in calling jumps UR and whatnot have to do with the fact that there aren’t multiple camera angles for the technical caller/specialist to review jumps? I seem to recall that being discussed on The Skating Lesson at one point—that there is only one camera angle used for reviewing jumps.

I’m all for UR and edge calls, but what’s the point of they’re not using multiple camera angles to ensure greater accuracy in their calls.

[SeanC]

6 hours ago, BelleBrit said:

And while I love Raf's personality and appreciate that he's a great coach, I still find him a bit overrated and scratch my head when people suggest sending skaters to him as a fix (which I've seen suggested for Ting).  Other than his success with Nathan Chen (which still got away from them at the Olympics-and for which, Raf quickly threw Nathans' family under the bus for, which is just kind of a tacky move and a habit for him to distance himself as soon as one of his own skaters falters, I've noticed), Eunsoo kind of imploded at Korean nationals and she couldn't capitalize on other's mistakes here, Marin got further behind in her country's pack of ladies on the grand prix and at her nationals, and while Mariah has improved, she continues to throw away some perfectly great opportunities to walk through an opening. Plus, while Ashley is clearly an independent thinker, I still tend to think that he mismanaged Ashley's last year in the Olympic quad/it was his idea for her to keep Moulin Rouge last year, which seemed to be a big tactical error.

Eun-soo and Marin only started with Raf this season.  Coaching changes generally take longer than that to have a big impact (Raf himself has said he wants skaters to commit to two years to judge the results).  Raf has Nathan, obviously, but he also got Michal Brezina to a place where he's gotten his best results in several years (though he didn't have a good Europeans, sadly), got Adam Rippon to thrive, and so on.

I agree that no coach is perfect, but ultimately, coaches can't skate the programs for their students.  Look at Angela Wang, who's had a succession of strong coaches through the years, but can never put it together.  So suggesting that better coaching would help a skater succeed isn't a guarantee that they will.

4 hours ago, Darknight said:

Yes. Tom Z too. I like RAF but I don't understand why people tell skaters to go to him and Tom Z or Frank.

Are people suggesting skaters go to Tom Z.?  At least in the skating fandom, Tom Z. and Tammy are rather out of favour, from what I've observed.

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

 Mostly, women's singles are getting boring to me.  It's all about jumps, the music is mostly bland, and the obsession with quads/triples is out of hand.  If TPTB are going to allow triples and quads for the women then I want them to be super strict about.  I don't think they are.  Frankly, I'd like to see quads banned for women and quints banned from men.

Why would the ISU ban quints, which have never been attempted and which most skaters and scientists who've looked at the question think aren't physically possible?

Only a handful of ladies' skaters are even attempting quads, and only Elizabet Tursynbaeva has tried it in seniors (just yesterday).

Latest from Four Continents, I would never have believed that Kirsten and Michael would come within 0.07 of defeating Sui and Han.

[BelleBrit]

27 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Eun-soo and Marin only started with Raf this season.  Coaching changes generally take longer than that to have a big impact (Raf himself has said he wants skaters to commit to two years to judge the results).  Raf has Nathan, obviously, but he also got Michal Brezina to a place where he's gotten his best results in several years (though he didn't have a good Europeans, sadly), got Adam Rippon to thrive, and so on.

I agree that no coach is perfect, but ultimately, coaches can't skate the programs for their students.  Look at Angela Wang, who's had a succession of strong coaches through the years, but can never put it together.  So suggesting that better coaching would help a skater succeed isn't a guarantee that they will.

Yes, I had almost added a caveat to my note that it's difficult for a coach to make many changes during the first year, and I recognize the stability that he added to Adam and Brezina's careers (particularly Adam's triple axel) are notable, though Adam also kind of had a difficult nationals last year even though he was placed on the Olympic team, and his technical ability was such that skating his best was basically only good enough for 10th place at the Olympics (points for his contributions to the team event though, but hearing people like Ellen talk to Adam about how should have won got frustrating to hear from the perspective of a skating fan). I agree that people make too much about the affect coaches will have on a skater, which was partly my point. I just think that his stable seems kind of full already and that he's overrated for what his skaters put out is all (going to him is "trendier" than going to Tom Z, etc.) Love hearing his comments in the Kiss and Cry though. I have a soft spot for him letting Adam live with him when he was low on funds, though that NYT article where Adam talked about his unhealthy eating habits was pretty disturbing. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by BelleBrit