Figure Skating

[specialj67]

Helsinki was underwhelming with a couple of exceptions. Props to Brezina for sticking it out and having his best results is years. His skating never really appealed to me, since the focus always seemed more on the jumps than the overall programs, but his crowd-please-y programs this season do a good job of highlighting his strengths. Hanyu, even with the errors in the long, was still so damn good. I don’t care for the music choice (I know it’s supposed to be a tribute to Plushenko, but still).

The only redeeming aspect of the women’s competition, for me, was Kaori Sakamoto’s LP performance. I would have also ranked her above Konstantinova in the final result. Without the lopsided program construction, I tried to reevaluate my perception of Alina Zagitova’s skating to see if I view it any differently. I don’t. The choreography does her no favors. No move is given a chance to shine. She looks like she’s racing through each move to get to the next. And the worst thing about the success of the girls coached by Eteri’s group is that their style is influencing more skaters, with the more-is-more-is-better choreography. I noticed it particularly with both of the other Russian girls and Leona Hendrickx. 

The ice dance result was unsurprising. As much as I like watching Guignard and Fabbri, their La La Land program already feels passé. Stepanova and Bukin deserved the win, no question, though I prefer their RD to their FD. This was my first time really paying attention to the 2 U.S. teams competing, and I was impressed with both. I really hope they, and Hawayek and Baker, can earn places at the top tier of U.S. ice dancing. I don’t see them challenging Hubbell and Donohue for the top spot yet, but hopefully there will be some genuine competition soon.

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, specialj67 said:

The ice dance result was unsurprising. As much as I like watching Guignard and Fabbri, their La La Land program already feels passé. Stepanova and Bukin deserved the win, no question, though I prefer their RD to their FD. This was my first time really paying attention to the 2 U.S. teams competing, and I was impressed with both. I really hope they, and Hawayek and Baker, can earn places at the top tier of U.S. ice dancing. I don’t see them challenging Hubbell and Donohue for the top spot yet, but hopefully there will be some genuine competition soon.

I hope these three teams will keep improving and maybe one of these days beat H/D.  Overall, though, figure skating competitions really don't get me excited and interested any more.  I'm trying to figure out why.  I know all the quads (and so many subsequent splats) have turned me off.  Maybe it's the lack of interesting choreography and/or music?  Vocals sure haven't helped any in this regard (totally IMO of course).  All I know of for sure--is that I don't go nuts if I find I've missed a competition and figure, well, I'll catch up at Nationals and Worlds.  I miss having a sport that I love but I sure don't love this sport any more.  P.S.  The bursting into tears at the end of one's routine is really getting on my last nerve.  It's got to stop.

[SeanC]

56 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

P.S.  The bursting into tears at the end of one's routine is really getting on my last nerve.  It's got to stop.

Why would you expect athletes (especially teenagers) to not be upset if a performance doesn't go well?  Poor Kaori at the end of the short program was understandably devastated when it looked like her chances of going to the Finals were up in smoke.  These people train for months for a 3-4 minute performance.

Quote

Maybe it's the lack of interesting choreography and/or music?

There's more diversity in figure skating music choices than there ever was before.

Interesting choreo is, of course, in the eye of the beholder, so fair enough.

Edited November 4, 2018 by SeanC

[annzeepark914]

50 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Why would you expect athletes (especially teenagers) to not be upset if a performance doesn't go well?  Poor Kaori at the end of the short program was understandably devastated when it looked like her chances of going to the Finals were up in smoke.  These people train for months for a 3-4 minute performance.

There's more diversity in figure skating music choices than there ever was before.

Interesting choreo is, of course, in the eye of the beholder, so fair enough.

Maybe today's teen figure skating competitors are more fragile than the skaters from earlier years.  But it happens even when they skate well.  

[Enero]

5 hours ago, SeanC said:

 Yuzuru Hanyu breaks the curse!  He may finally have that undefeated season that has eluded him all these years.

Yes, but by the skin of his teeth. Well not with the win but the performance. A lot of his jumps were very shaky in the LP. Even the 3A which is normally his money jump was not as secure in the SP or LP, as it’s been in the past. Perhaps because he’s working on the 4A? 

Anyway, he earned the win but I’m not a fan of either of his programs this year. I just don’t think they’re “him.” I will say I love the choreography of his SP. The LP is just ok IMHO. Hopefully his jumps will get stronger as the season progresses. I don’t think I’ll ever like his SP, only because I detest the music, but maybe with time his LP will grow on me.

 

Quote

Boyang's dangerous love affair with the boards continues.  He had to bend his leg not to hit them on that quad Lutz.

IKR! SMH. What can a skater do to correct this? I really enjoyed his SP. It fits him perfectly. The LP is okay. It’s too bad he had terrible skates this competition, especially in the LP. I hope he can pull it together as the season progresses. He has a ton of potential. I’d really hate to see him continuously regress like he has the last few competitions. Hopefully he can get past whatever is causing his issues and make it back to the podium. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Enero

[ML89]

2 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Maybe it's the lack of interesting choreography and/or music?  Vocals sure haven't helped any in this regard (totally IMO of course). 

I so agree. I thought with vocals we'd get some shlock but some interesting performances too but they are few and far between. Most of the music I know the skaters have heard in an arena and somehow decided that music with droning vocals was a great idea but seriously. Jason Brown's new programs, for example. Dreary dreary music. 

I still think one of the best of the new vocals programs was Fernandez's Black Betty. That's what I was hoping for with vocals. Sadly, not many programs like that.

[SeanC]

29 minutes ago, ML89 said:

I so agree. I thought with vocals we'd get some shlock but some interesting performances too but they are few and far between. Most of the music I know the skaters have heard in an arena and somehow decided that music with droning vocals was a great idea but seriously. Jason Brown's new programs, for example. Dreary dreary music. 

Jason's FS isn't the most energetic program out there, but his SP this season is amazing, one of his best ever.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Jason Brown's new programs, for example. Dreary dreary music. 

OH, YES... those "old men" lyric ... what were they thinking, giving that depressing music to a skater LONG past his prime?  He should have ended the program with Cecilia or something like Kodachrome to get the audience behind him ... 

[Mellowyellow]

This was Alina's worse skate of Carmen by far. According to one of her interviews messing the loop during POTO really upset her and she agonised about it.

On another note she was asked in an interview if she felt she needed to learn quads after looking at the other Russian girls.

I do. But coming back home and falling dead on my bed I say myself "Not yet!" (translation by another fan)

I wonder if she will ever attempt quads. Would be interesting since she'd be past puberty if she did try them.

***

While some routines are indeed very busy (too busy even), on the whole I prefer them to a lot of the ones I saw back in the day where the skater seemed to go "hut hut" before jumping and instead of doing something cool after they jump, they seem to spend be focused on steadying themselves after they land. 

[ML89]

1 hour ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

OH, YES... those "old men" lyric ... what were they thinking, giving that depressing music to a skater LONG past his prime?  He should have ended the program with Cecilia or something like Kodachrome to get the audience behind him ... 

They could have done his short to the Bangles' version of Hazy Shade of Winter - it's only 2:51 so it could be trimmed a bit and it would be dynamite. Starting with Old Friends/Bookends and that dissonant change between them is just ear bleeding. Then too little of Hazy Shade of Winter and the Bangles' version is better (sort of like Disturbed's version of Sound of Silence worked so well for James/Cipres). Kodachrome would have been fun or The Boxer or Bridge Over Troubled Waters - Torvill and Dean do such a great program to it. Hell, I'd like to see someone skate to Call Me Al. Jason could pull off something fun and lighthearted, why not?

 

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Jason's FS isn't the most energetic program out there, but his SP this season is amazing, one of his best ever.

Love his performance but I just can't get into that music. I felt the same about his Hamilton song last year. Just doesn't work for me.

[Darknight]

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

This was Alina's worse skate of Carmen by far. According to one of her interviews messing the loop during POTO really upset her and she agonised about it.

On another note she was asked in an interview if she felt she needed to learn quads after looking at the other Russian girls.

I do. But coming back home and falling dead on my bed I say myself "Not yet!" (translation by another fan)

I wonder if she will ever attempt quads. Would be interesting since she'd be past puberty if she did try them.

***

While some routines are indeed very busy (too busy even), on the whole I prefer them to a lot of the ones I saw back in the day where the skater seemed to go "hut hut" before jumping and instead of doing something cool after they jump, they seem to spend be focused on steadying themselves after they land. 

I can't see Alina doing quads. With Eteri's 3 juniors becoming seniors next year, Alina will be pushed aside

Alina's PCS scores were a joke. Seriously, I hate her programs. It looks thrown together. She is so much better than this. 

Are the judges being extra hard this year? 

[displayname]

18 hours ago, SeanC said:

There's more diversity in figure skating music choices than there ever was before.

Interesting choreo is, of course, in the eye of the beholder, so fair enough.

Not sure about either statement. The top skaters of the past were always pretty innovative in music choices for their time, selecting diverse music.

(For instance)

A lot of the current skaters actually seem to be choosing some of the music used by past skaters BECAUSE they skated so well to it (and turned it into a warhorse for skating).

For the second, the quality of choreography has certainly decreased. But let's ignore that. Let's just say instead that this is perhaps an experimental season with the shorter time period, with people trying to save their stamina.

Edited November 5, 2018 by displayname

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, displayname said:

Not sure about either statement. The top skaters of the past were always pretty innovative in music choices for their time, selecting diverse music.

(For instance)

A lot of the current skaters actually seem to be choosing some of the music used by past skaters BECAUSE they skated so well to it (and turned it into a warhorse for skating).

 

There have always been warhorse choices in skating (and any good skating music eventually becomes one).  But skating music is absolutely more diverse now than in the past — the introduction of lyrics, especially, have seen to that. There’s far greater diversity in genre, as well, compared to the days when instrumental classical was the default.

Quote

For the second, the quality of choreography has certainly decreased.

That’s an area where we disagree.  I personally think there’s been a rise in quality from the best skaters once, in men’s for instance, the challenge became combining intricate footwork with quad jumps (a la Chan and Hanyu). A lot of even the top programs from the 1990s feel empty by comparison.

17 hours ago, Enero said:

Yes, but by the skin of his teeth. Well not with the win but the performance. A lot of his jumps were very shaky in the LP. Even the 3A which is normally his money jump was not as secure in the SP or LP, as it’s been in the past. Perhaps because he’s working on the 4A?

 

He was interviewed afterward and said that the ice quality in the rink was poor and he found in practise that it wasn’t good for edge jumps, especially.

https://mobile.twitter.com/echotpe/status/1059400501488377856

Edited November 5, 2018 by SeanC

[displayname]

32 minutes ago, SeanC said:

There have always been warhorse choices in skating (and any good skating music eventually becomes one).  But skating music is absolutely more diverse now than in the past — the introduction of lyrics, especially, have seen to that. There’s far greater diversity in genre, as well, compared to the days when instrumental classical was the default.

I don't agree. Even with lyrics people choose the same stuff over and over again: see Hanyu, Otonal (IDC if it's a tribute). Innovative music choices are very rare. (And lol they're just choosing POTO with lyrics, Carmen with lyrics, Nessun Dorma with lyrics, and Roxanne with lyrics).

 

32 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I personally think there’s been a rise in quality from the best skaters once, in men’s for instance, the challenge became combining intricate footwork with quad jumps (a la Chan and Hanyu). 

I don't agree with this either. The choreography has become rather limited with the time that needs to be devoted to spin levels, and step levels, and then even within the spins and footwork, the same notion for "difficult" steps and positions exist, making it very similar, same-y. A world of movement is simply being lost because it's just not rewarded well. The placement of jumps with the time bonus especially has decreased the quality of the choreo (AND the jumps, to conserve their energy) -- note how the top skaters knock off their two most difficult quads first, for instance. The choreographic sequences are mostly just people knocking off skating elements as linking moves without purpose.

The point about combining intricate footwork with quads isn't really a something that confirms a rise in quality of choreography anyway -- the same footwork before a triple would then using the same reasoning not mean it's inferior choreography, just simpler to do with a triple in place. Difficulty =/= Quality.

Chan's choreography wasn't something I called generally great for showing skating skill for the sake of showing skating skill, without any overall purpose, either.

32 minutes ago, SeanC said:

A lot of even the top programs from the 1990s feel empty by comparison.

DEFINITELY don't agree with this. Note the program by Lu Chen (Nausicaa). Note this program: 

also by Lu Chen.

Or this one by Ito:

Or this one by Kwan:

Or by Browning: 

 

 

None of those would I call empty. Just a few examples, too. Also, for that matter, note Lu Chen's use of the illusion spins in Nausicaa to reflect the music, something you simply won't find anymore because it won't get any levels. Adding random steps and positions to something for the sake of difficulty instead of purpose doesn't make it rich. In fact, it makes it devoid of artistic quality, and hence emptier by nature. It's the same thing with young competition dancers who keep doing somersaults in an attempt to say "look at how much more I can do!".

Edited November 5, 2018 by displayname

[SeanC]

30 minutes ago, displayname said:

I don't agree with this either. The choreography has become rather limited with the time that needs to be devoted to spin levels, and step levels, and then even within the spins and footwork, the same notion for "difficult" steps and positions exist, making it very similar, same-y. A world of movement is simply being lost because it's just not rewarded well. The placement of jumps with the time bonus especially has decreased the quality of the choreo (AND the jumps, to conserve their energy) -- note how the top skaters knock off their two most difficult quads first, for instance. 

Why would putting the big jumps first (which was always the practise, generally) adversely affect choreography?  And the time bonus merely discourages people from just skating around in the second half like Plushenko used to do, which tends to greatly improve the program quality (we saw the opposite with Zagitova’s backloading where the first half wasn’t interesting).  Choreography is more interesting when it involves jumps, intricate spins, etc. — see Hanyu hydroblading into a spin in his new FS.

Quote

The point about combining intricate footwork with quads isn't really a something that confirms a rise in quality of choreography anyway -- the same footwork before a triple would then using the same reasoning not mean it's inferior choreography, just simpler to do with a triple in place. Difficulty =/= Quality.

I would say that difficulty does indeed have a relation to quality, particularly in a sport.  The excitement level of an intricate multi-quad program is inherently higher than one without doubles.

30 minutes ago, displayname said:

DEFINITELY don't agree with this. Note the program by Lu Chen (Nausicaa). Note this program: 

 

also by Lu Chen.

Or this one by Ito:

 

Or this one by Kwan:

 

Or by Browning: 

 

None of those would I call empty. 

I didn’t say all.  I can easily cite programs from Hanyu, Chan, Fernandez, Kim, Osmond, Miyahara, etc. that eclipse or equal those in their choreography and artistry.

There have always been plenty of boring programs in figure skating, and plenty of falls, technical errors, etc.  That’s not new.

[Maelstrom]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

He was interviewed afterward and said that the ice quality in the rink was poor and he found in practise that it wasn’t good for edge jumps, especially.

That's interesting. Anyone more knowledgable about skating mind helping me understand why that would be? I love watching figure skating but know very little about the technical ins and outs of it.

[SeanC]

51 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

That's interesting. Anyone more knowledgable about skating mind helping me understand why that would be? I love watching figure skating but know very little about the technical ins and outs of it.

The temperature of the ice matters a lot in terms of how firm the landings are.  The ice in Helsinki was too soft, reportedly, which makes it more difficult to do a good landing.

[Maelstrom]

Aha, that makes sense! Thanks very much SeanC :)

[SeanC]

Papadakis and Cizeron had to drop out of NHK Trophy due to a minor training injury that apparently won't impact them competing in France in two weeks (at least, they don't expect).  But that obviously means they're out of the running for the Final, which is a huge opportunity for the other competitors, and, more immediately, a huge boon for both Zahorski/Guerreiro and Hawayek/Baker, one of whom should take gold at NHK now, and both of whose chances at the Grand Prix Final are much-improved.

[Mellowyellow]

On 11/5/2018 at 9:14 PM, Darknight said:

I can't see Alina doing quads. With Eteri's 3 juniors becoming seniors next year, Alina will be pushed aside

Alina's PCS scores were a joke. Seriously, I hate her programs. It looks thrown together. She is so much better than this. 

Are the judges being extra hard this year? 

The judges seem to be calling a lot of things this year. Maybe because of the new scoring system they're not letting anything go.

I'm still enjoying Alina's programs (busy programs work better for me than slow ones if I had to pick) and hopefully they'll be enough to let her win Worlds. At least she's not skating them at the Olympics!

For a while I really doubted Evgenia's move to Orser (scary as Eteri looks) but now I think she did the right thing in terms of her longevity. I do think she's in danger of losing her spot in Russia though. She's very loyal to her country but I wish she'd change citizenship and skate for a country with more spots! 

Her goal is Beijing 2022 but I doubt she'll get a spot unless she switches countries. 

[SeanC]

24 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

The judges seem to be calling a lot of things this year. Maybe because of the new scoring system they're not letting anything go.

I'm still enjoying Alina's programs (busy programs work better for me than slow ones if I had to pick) and hopefully they'll be enough to let her win Worlds. At least she's not skating them at the Olympics!

For a while I really doubted Evgenia's move to Orser (scary as Eteri looks) but now I think she did the right thing in terms of her longevity. I do think she's in danger of losing her spot in Russia though. She's very loyal to her country but I wish she'd change citizenship and skate for a country with more spots! 

Her goal is Beijing 2022 but I doubt she'll get a spot unless she switches countries. 

The Russian Fed would never let her go, so that's not an option even if she wanted to.

As far as it goes, if she's not able to make the Russian Olympic team in 2022, then she wouldn't be able to win gold in Beijing anyway, which is what she's doing all this for.

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, SeanC said:

The Russian Fed would never let her go, so that's not an option even if she wanted to.

As far as it goes, if she's not able to make the Russian Olympic team in 2022, then she wouldn't be able to win gold in Beijing anyway, which is what she's doing all this for.

I doubt she'd even want to do it but she can't change countries and citizenship?

I don't know how it works but I always thought anyone could move as long as the new country accepted them.

[SeanC]

16 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I doubt she'd even want to do it but she can't change countries and citizenship?

I don't know how it works but I always thought anyone could move as long as the new country accepted them.

Once you compete internationally for a particular federation, they have to give you a release to skate for anybody else.  In general, people won't be released if the federation considers them a valuable asset.

For instance, the US let Piper Gilles go at a point where she had stopped competing for over a year and had never even competed at the senior level.

[doodlebug]

16 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I doubt she'd even want to do it but she can't change countries and citizenship?

I don't know how it works but I always thought anyone could move as long as the new country accepted them.

Some federations seem to expect financial compensation from the skater wanting to change countries before releasing them which is obviously a major obstacle for some.  The ISU requires a skater switching countries to refrain from international competitions for a year and to establish legal residency in the country for which the skater wants to compete.  The IOC requires that all Olympic competitors be actual citizens of the countries for which they compete which is why some skaters can compete for another country in regular international competitions but cannot compete at the Olympics.

In general, it is easier for a pairs or ice dancer to switch countries, usually in the case of wanting to skate with a new partner from a different country.  Obviously, this wouldn't apply to Evgenia.  However, for quite a while, there has been the tradition of 'rent a Russian' in pairs and ice dance where a partner, usually male, is recruited from Russia and ends up skating with a female partner from another country.  The female skater and/or her family and supporters often invest a lot of cash in bringing the new partner out of Russia (including paying the federation to release him) and then supporting him in the new country.  This started because Russia has far more quality male skaters than most other countries and a long tradition of excellence in ice dance and pairs, so there are a lot of accomplished male Russian skaters who can be paired with a female partner and reach the higher levels more quickly.

Evgenia is a victim of her own success.  Even if she would want to switch and skate for another country (and who knows if she does?), she has had huge success and won many prizes while skating for Russia.  That makes the Russian Federation far less likely to release her to skate for someone else.  To them, keeping all their top talent in the fold is a priority, they cannot be sure all the youngsters in the pipeline are going to reach their potential and not be injured.  Evgenia is like an insurance policy for Russia, if their other girls don't pan out, she is sure to be able to compete at the highest levels. She's not some unknown male ice dancer or pairs skater.

[HartofDixie]

NHK Trophy results

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/gpjpn2018/

[Darknight]

On 11/6/2018 at 5:48 PM, SeanC said:

The Russian Fed would never let her go, so that's not an option even if she wanted to.

As far as it goes, if she's not able to make the Russian Olympic team in 2022, then she wouldn't be able to win gold in Beijing anyway, which is what she's doing all this for.

I think Russia Fed wants to show they can have a successful adult skater. Russian Fed still supports her right now. 

On 11/6/2018 at 5:50 PM, Mellowyellow said:

I doubt she'd even want to do it but she can't change countries and citizenship?

I don't know how it works but I always thought anyone could move as long as the new country accepted them.

Zhenya is very patriotic. Russia is her country. I can see Russians competing for USA or other countries since competition in Russia is cut throat. Eteri current has 11 and 12 yo skaters who will turn 15 in 2022 for the winter games

On 11/6/2018 at 5:22 PM, Mellowyellow said:

The judges seem to be calling a lot of things this year. Maybe because of the new scoring system they're not letting anything go.

I'm still enjoying Alina's programs (busy programs work better for me than slow ones if I had to pick) and hopefully they'll be enough to let her win Worlds. At least she's not skating them at the Olympics!

For a while I really doubted Evgenia's move to Orser (scary as Eteri looks) but now I think she did the right thing in terms of her longevity. I do think she's in danger of losing her spot in Russia though. She's very loyal to her country but I wish she'd change citizenship and skate for a country with more spots! 

Her goal is Beijing 2022 but I doubt she'll get a spot unless she switches countries. 

I hope they call out a lot of stuff. It's not fair at all to pretend as if there is nothing wrong. Skaters should improve if there's an issue. I hope they call out bad technique. That irks me so much when I keep seeing poor technique time and time again and not one calls it out

[ChicksDigScars]

Sorry if this has been covered, but I haven't seen Chock and Bates listed in any Grand Prix results. I know that they were one of masses that migrated to Montreal. Are they taking a year off, or are they injured?

 

If injury is keeping Papadakis and Cizeron from qualifying for the GPF, that leaves the door WIDE open for Hubble and Donahue to not only qualify (which is a given) but WIN. But it seems that the Russian pairs are lying in wait to over take them. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by ChicksDigScars

[Good Queen Jane]

Chock had surgery on her ankle last spring and is still recovering. They withdrew from the Finland Grand Prix event.

[SeanC]

And now from Rostelecom too.

[ChicksDigScars]

Actually, I'm looking forward to seeing a couple of the younger U.S. dance teams get international exposure.  And I don't think that Hubble and Donahue are a lock if P/C are out. They won the gold medal in Canada, but their free dance came in second. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by ChicksDigScars

[Darknight]

Elizaveta is bringing it this year. Lord, the Russian cup. Alena beat Alexandra in the short program

[Mellowyellow]

Absolutely wonderful program! 

Rika KIHIRA Free Skate 2018 NHK Trophy

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[SeanC]

Rika is definitely the full package.  That free program looked wonderful at Nepela Trophy, from what we could see of it, since the video was filmed from such a distance, so it was great to see it with good camerawork (and she did it cleaner).  At both her events this season she's done the same thing:  missed the triple Axel in the short program and then landed two in the free skate.  If she can stop botching the axel in the short, and with expected rise in component scores, she may be the one who can beat Zagitova this year.

Her TES was the fourth-highest for any senior singles skater so far this season, male or female, behind only Hanyu, Chen, and Uno.

[specialj67]

After having watched Alexa and Chris’ relatively better-delivered programs at NHK, I like them. Aside from the obvious and chronic jump issues, they really are a nice team to watch. I hope they find a permanent coaching situation that works for them and pushes them to address their jump issues.

[redpencil]

Really happy for Mariah Bell. I know she was only 5th, but there was a lot of amazing skating by the ladies, and she really delivered in her FS. Probably could have been 4th without the fall in the SP. She skates with such a genuine exuberance, and it's a joy to watch. Her programs this year really serve her well, I think. I hope she can keep this up for nationals.

[legaleagle53]

6 hours ago, SeanC said:

Rika is definitely the full package.  That free program looked wonderful at Nepela Trophy, from what we could see of it, since the video was filmed from such a distance, so it was great to see it with good camerawork (and she did it cleaner).  At both her events this season she's done the same thing:  missed the triple Axel in the short program and then landed two in the free skate.  If she can stop botching the axel in the short, and with expected rise in component scores, she may be the one who can beat Zagitova this year.

Her TES was the fourth-highest for any senior singles skater so far this season, male or female, behind only Hanyu, Chen, and Uno.

Is it just my perception, or are triple Axels now becoming as commonplace for the women as quads are for the men?  It doesn't seem all that long ago to me that triple Axels were thought to be almost physically impossible for a woman to land in competition because they were so rare (only Tonya Harding and Midori Ito had ever done them in competition).

[specialj67]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

Is it just my perception, or are triple Axels now becoming as commonplace for the women as quads are for the men?  It doesn't seem all that long ago to me that triple Axels were thought to be almost physically impossible for a woman to land in competition because they were so rare (only Tonya Harding and Midori Ito had ever done them in competition).

That could be true for younger skaters still coming up through the junior ranks, IDK, but the only other woman I can think of who’s currently attempting them regularly in competition is Elizaveta Tuktamysheva. Over the past decade or so, there were also Mao Asada, Yukari Nakano, and Mirai Nagasu. Much like quads, it seems to be something that most female skaters who attempt it have more success with when they’re younger, and haven’t fully gone through puberty yet. It’ll be interesting to see if the new hefty penalties for falling on jumps, or strictness on underrotations, discourages more women skaters from trying it.

[SeanC]

Yeah, I wouldn't say it's becoming more common, at least not yet.  There's usually been one skater at a given moment who is doing it, if that -- sometimes two at the same time, for brief periods.

However, with the technical bar in ladies' skating continually rising, I think you may start to see greater 3A proliferation in the coming years.  Supposedly several of the young Korean skaters currently training with Tom Z. are doing it in practice, I know Alena Kostornaia is also, to name a few.

[healthnut]

Excited for Hawayek & Baker, they won the NHK Trophy. Way to rise to the occasion and take advantage of Papadakis & Cizeron pulling out. 

[SeanC]

 

Love this program so much.  And so do the judges, apparently, since they won the free dance TES by almost five points and would have won the free dance overall but for an extended lift deduction.  And that's from skating in seventh place after the rhythm dance, ending up in fourth overall and only 1.44 points off the bronze medal.  Great example of how a strong dance program can make people pay attention, because I guess these two were at Worlds last season, and I certainly didn't notice.

[Darknight]

On 11/10/2018 at 8:46 PM, specialj67 said:

That could be true for younger skaters still coming up through the junior ranks, IDK, but the only other woman I can think of who’s currently attempting them regularly in competition is Elizaveta Tuktamysheva. Over the past decade or so, there were also Mao Asada, Yukari Nakano, and Mirai Nagasu. Much like quads, it seems to be something that most female skaters who attempt it have more success with when they’re younger, and haven’t fully gone through puberty yet. It’ll be interesting to see if the new hefty penalties for falling on jumps, or strictness on underrotations, discourages more women skaters from trying it.

I thought they still get points even with falling. I would like to see if the jrs will keep their jumps when they're 16,17,18. Idk but I would also like to see proper technique from them too. They depend on their small bodies and fast rotations right now. And quads should only be for seniors not jrs

I think many skaters will start doing quads and 3a without the proper technique or without being ready. More injuries. I can see them making a rule about this just like back loading 

[displayname]

LOL. Each and every event thus far has been boring. 

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, displayname said:

LOL. Each and every event thus far has been boring. 

We just came off a superb ladies’ event at NHK.  Rika, Satoko, Elizaveta, and some terrific non-podium skates from people like Mai and Mariah.

The men’s event wasn’t good, though; Shoma really needs to tidy things up before going against Yuzuru and Nathan in the Final.

[displayname]

16 hours ago, SeanC said:

We just came off a superb ladies’ event at NHK.  Rika, Satoko, Elizaveta, and some terrific non-podium skates from people like Mai and Mariah.

 

Technically, sure, it was "superb". And from a competitive stand point it was less boring than the other events thus far, I'd agree there. But the programs, performances: resounding meh. Maybe Kihira can end up shaking things up for the ladies' event down the season, though. Sakamoto can try, too, along with her.

[HartofDixie]

Results link for Rostelecom Cup.

 

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/gprus2018/

[ML89]

On 11/11/2018 at 11:43 AM, SeanC said:

Love this program so much. 

Oh so do I! It's fun and fast with great music choices and that mix (Car Wash into Bad Girls is so perfect!). This is what people should be skating to - the audience was into it, the team was into it. It's well choreographed too - so many programs look like you could take the skater and put on any music behind them - this is skated to that beat and to the highlights - the twizzles, the arms and legs. This is the kind of program I was hoping for when they allowed lyrics.

[carrier76]

Did anyone watch the Olympics Channel coverage and hear Ashley Wagner commentating? She was a little rough commentating for pairs, but picked it up for singles, and I enjoyed it. I liked hearing from someone who had skated with most of these skaters. I still like Tanith and Charlie White best. Ryan Bradley has been better this year.

 

I am pretty jazzed about Gracie’s return.

 

Unpopular opinion: I will be so glad when we are out of the Hanyu era. Can’t stand that guy.

[displayname]

10 minutes ago, carrier76 said:

Unpopular opinion: I will be so glad when we are out of the Hanyu era. Can’t stand that guy.

I'm more annoyed by the fans. The guy is whatever, and the judges will prop him up no matter what, that's not new with this sport, but the fans behaving like what he's delivering is something great and so far beyond the abilities of the other male skaters is ridiculous. And then when someone "dares" to score more than him, it's a conspiracy.

His skating won't ever not be propped up now, though, so yeah, hope he leaves soon. Boring programs, and his skating isn't that special anymore with the same style, and the competitors are  closing in, so wouldn't like to see them robbed because of PCS. Otherwise it's a coast along to a third OGM, deserved or not.

[carrier76]

This is shallow, but I am also super eyerolly at his Intense!, I-AM-THE-BEST! faces that he makes at the end of every performance.

[ChicksDigScars]

Judging from the Ladies short scores, Gracie's return must not have gone well. 

 

I like that Carreira and Ponomarenko are in second place to Stepanaova and Bukin, so far. Not that I think the judges will score C/P over S/B, but I like that Bukin's dad and Ponomarenko's parents shared the podium many times 30 years ago. Battle of the younger generation!

Edited November 16, 2018 by ChicksDigScars