S01.E03: Episode 3

[Llywela]

 

Ross celebrates the opening of Wheal Leisure as rumours spread of a scandalous relationship between him and Demelza.

Also in this episode, we meet Zacky Martin in passing as his daugher marries Jim Carter, Robin Ellis pops up as the judge Ross clashes with over Jim's sentence for poaching, and Ross decides that sleeping with the servant he fancies means he should marry her.

 

Plus, was it just me misunderstanding, or did Tom Carne tell Demelza he'd be back the next day to take her home but then not actually turn up to collect her?

 

The more I see of this new adaptation, the more I want to re-watch the 1970s version, but I can't because I don't own it. It makes me really wish I'd read the books, as well, as the baseline against which to compare both!

 

I think Aidan Turner is doing a decent job - he's certainly very charismatic, which is just as well since this adaptation is focused very intently on Ross, only catching glimpses of other peoples' stories going on around him, so he has to carry the whole thing. That's one of the big differences I've noticed between this adaptation and the last - the '70s version spent a lot more time getting to know the supporting characters and telling their stories. This is a very lean production, in comparison. It's also a very fast production – short scenes, skipping rapidly through the story. The cinematography is absolutely stunning but I can't help feeling that we're missing out on a lot of atmosphere and depth because of the breakneck pace – it doesn't allow itself to linger on anything, perhaps to its detriment.

 

I also feel that this production is a bit heavy-handed in its desire to portray Ross as the perfect romantic hero of the story, focusing on the nobler aspects of his character and glossing over his flaws, whereas the 70s version wasn't afraid to show the darker sides of his personality right from the earliest scenes, signalling right up front that this was a complex and potentially dangerous man with strengths and weaknesses in equal measure – that Ross had a lot more bite and edge to him than this one. It's the same basic story, but with the stresses and emphasis in different places - it's interesting to see what a difference it makes.

 

As far as Demelza goes, I'm enjoying Eleanor Tomlinson's performance as long as I don't let myself remember Angharad Rees. She's doing a decent job, selling Demelza's yearning and insecurity, and the spirit that lurks beneath, just waiting for the opportunity to blossom.

 

[rozen]

I was excited when I first heard about the remake, but it just makes me want to rewatch the 70s version too! I actually don't feel that Aidan Turner is carrying the show particularly well, it almost feels like an extended flashback of his character in Being Human (complete with Revolution ambush). But they are asking him to do a lot when episodes are covering years at a time, it's just awkward. 

 

Elizabeth is just as much of a wet fish in this version as she was in the others, I really wish they'd found a more engaging actress because my response to the old show and the books has always been, "whyyyyyyyy her?" I wish they'd found an actress that could do her justice, and show a woman earnestly conflicted who can make everyone's hearts do backflips. 

 

The extended Poldark family seems to exist to be a morality play about persistent emasculation. Were they this toothless and petty in the books? It's been ages, so I can't remember. 

 

Having whole families take the day off to dance merrily because their sons and fathers would get to die in a different mine for a fraction more wages made me laugh. And Poldark in the middle of a human chain moving one piece of rock at a time. You'll certainly repay your investors straight away at that rate. 

 

Demelza feels too timid, made the inevitable romance kind of squick me out. And what was with that 2s kissing scene. Showrunners clearly do not know their audience. Pls go watch Outlander, then come back and try it again, please.

Edited March 23, 2015 by rozen

[MrsE]

it almost feels like an extended flashback of his character in Being Human (complete with Revolution ambush)

 

 

Wrong show.  Turner's character, the vampire John Mitchell, fought and (un)died in WWI.

 

I think his flaws are fairly obvious - he doesn't think things through or consider the impact of what he does on others; he is, it seems, prone to hit the bottle when things go wrong and he has a tendency to be arrogant and self righteous.

 

I'm not sure that the wedding and subsequent celebrations took place on a day that those involved should have been working.  People did, after all, get married and celebrate the fact.  I'm also not sure what the alternative to the human chain in the mine would have been at that time. The point of the sequence was, I thought, to illustrate that he rolled up his sleeves and mucked in, in contrast to the drip Francis.

[Big Bad Wolf]

Plus, was it just me misunderstanding, or did Tom Carne tell Demelza he'd be back the next day to take her home but then not actually turn up to collect her?

 

The more I see of this new adaptation, the more I want to re-watch the 1970s version, but I can't because I don't own it. It makes me really wish I'd read the books, as well, as the baseline against which to compare both!

 

I think Aidan Turner is doing a decent job - he's certainly very charismatic, which is just as well since this adaptation is focused very intently on Ross, only catching glimpses of other peoples' stories going on around him, so he has to carry the whole thing. That's one of the big differences I've noticed between this adaptation and the last - the '70s version spent a lot more time getting to know the supporting characters and telling their stories. This is a very lean production, in comparison. It's also a very fast production – short scenes, skipping rapidly through the story. The cinematography is absolutely stunning but I can't help feeling that we're missing out on a lot of atmosphere and depth because of the breakneck pace – it doesn't allow itself to linger on anything, perhaps to its detriment.

 

I also feel that this production is a bit heavy-handed in its desire to portray Ross as the perfect romantic hero of the story, focusing on the nobler aspects of his character and glossing over his flaws, whereas the 70s version wasn't afraid to show the darker sides of his personality right from the earliest scenes, signalling right up front that this was a complex and potentially dangerous man with strengths and weaknesses in equal measure – that Ross had a lot more bite and edge to him than this one. It's the same basic story, but with the stresses and emphasis in different places - it's interesting to see what a difference it makes.

 

As far as Demelza goes, I'm enjoying Eleanor Tomlinson's performance as long as I don't let myself remember Angharad Rees. She's doing a decent job, selling Demelza's yearning and insecurity, and the spirit that lurks beneath, just waiting for the opportunity to blossom.

 

Re. Tom Carne fetching Demelza, I got the impression we saw the action from the next day which happened in the morning, so Ross had already asked Demelza to marry him by the time her father would have turned up, so I'm happy not to have seen him being told his arrival to take her away was pointless. This whole production does move quickly, and often eschews scenes which aren't really needed, of which more below

 

Anyone who wants to watch the previous version of the show, my understanding is that it is pretty much all available on YouTube. I've seen some of it, but I don't like the dated production values, and prefer the performances and actors in the newer version, so I'm not looking to watch the whole thing. I'm waiting until I've seen all eight episodes of this season, which apparently cover the first two books, and then I will read them.

 

I think Aidan Turner is absolutely fantastic in this. And I think that's probably a key aspect as to whether or not someone will enjoy this version - if they like Aidan in the role or not, as it is certainly very 'Ross-heavy'. I've seen the writer talking about it, and basically she had to pare the story down, and thus concentrate on the main character, as she was originally only commissioned for 6 episodes, and then was given 8 to cover the first two books; she didn't have the freedom to spend time on periphery characters or storylines, which apparently the first version did. Of course, the first version was made on a shoe string budget, and filmed mostly inside in a studio, whereas this version cost millions, with production values on a whole different level. I know which approach I prefer; of course, tastes vary.

 

I'm very happy with the fast pace, although I think they could do a better job of giving a sense of time passing. Things seem to happen over a few days or weeks, but then it suddenly becomes clear that months or years have passed, and it can be confusing to work out what is supposed to have happened when. Reading comments from people who have read the books, apparently things happen like this in the books: the narrative jumps from event to event quickly, with months passing in between. The writer of this TV version has said she's followed the books closely, and this has likely contributed to the problem I've referred to above.

 

I'll be interested when I read the books to see whether this version of Ross is closer to the books than the one in the original series. Apparently, for example, in the previous TV version, Ross didn't marry Demelza until she was pregnant and he had to, which is pretty bad behaviour, and would certainly seem to give him a darker side to his character. But that wasn't what happened in the books - where he basically married her immediately after sleeping with her, much more honorably - and apparently Winston Graham was pretty upset with the old TV version on this point. So I'm not sure if the darker sides to Ross's character were inserted by that TV version, and this "perfect romantic hero" version is closer to the books. I also think some of it is to do with the way Aidan is playing him - this is an actor who could make a mass-murdering vampire a sympathetic character one could fall in love with, after all. We've seen this Ross snapping nastily at Demelza, bedding a prostitute and thrashing a man in the street, but none of that even remotely sticks.

 

I wasn't sure about Eleanor Tomlinson at first, but after this third episode, I absolutely love her. She has me totally loving and feeling for Demelza, and I think her chemistry with Aidan is wonderful. I did originally enjoy Angharad Rees, but having rewatched some of her scenes recently on YouTube, I feel this newer version of Demelza is more modern, and I prefer it.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Big Bad Wolf

[Big Bad Wolf]

I was excited when I first heard about the remake, but it just makes me want to rewatch the 70s version too! I actually don't feel that Aidan Turner is carrying the show particularly well, it almost feels like an extended flashback of his character in Being Human (complete with Revolution ambush). But they are asking him to do a lot when episodes are covering years at a time, it's just awkward. 

 

Elizabeth is just as much of a wet fish in this version as she was in the others, I really wish they'd found a more engaging actress because my response to the old show and the books has always been, "whyyyyyyyy her?" I wish they'd found an actress that could do her justice, and show a woman earnestly conflicted who can make everyone's hearts do backflips. 

 

The extended Poldark family seems to exist to be a morality play about persistent emasculation. Were they this toothless and petty in the books? It's been ages, so I can't remember. 

 

Having whole families take the day off to dance merrily because their sons and fathers would get to die in a different mine for a fraction more wages made me laugh. And Poldark in the middle of a human chain moving one piece of rock at a time. You'll certainly repay your investors straight away at that rate. 

 

Demelza feels too timid, made the inevitable romance kind of squick me out. And what was with that 2s kissing scene. Showrunners clearly do not know their audience. Pls go watch Outlander, then come back and try it again, please.

 

Re. Aidan Turner as Ross, wow, it just shows how totally different people's perception of the same performance can be. I think he's doing an amazing job carrying the show; his portrayal is incredibly charismatic, IMO, and I can see why Ross Poldark causes such a stir wherever he goes. I also think he's really inhabiting this character, and is very different to Mitchell on BH. Of course there are some shared characteristics (such as everyone being expected to take it for granted that Ross is sex on legs, as they were supposed to with Mitchell), but that's surely part of the reason he was cast in the role.

 

 

But they are asking him to do a lot when episodes are covering years at a time, it's just awkward.

 

 

I'm unsure what you mean by this - why is it "awkward"?

 

Re. Elizabeth, I'm confused: you seem to be saying she was a wet fish in the books as well (as I've also read elsewhere), but you're unhappy they didn't find a more engaging actress. They were trying to follow the books closely with this adaptation, so they wouldn't have been looking to make her a more engaging character on the show than she was in the books - is that what you wanted?

 

With regard to the extended Poldark family, it seems to be only Francis who is really weak. The father was obviously competent and a strong patriarch, before his health failed, and Verity has many strong qualities. It seems to be Francis, rather than "they", who are "toothless and petty".

 

I thought they were dancing for the wedding celebrations; nothing to do with the mine reopening. Although I'm sure it's all relative what you're happy about; if your choices are working down a mine or starving to death, presumably getting to go down the mine and earn enough to eat and keep a roof over your head makes you pretty happy. I think they've included plenty of commentary on the show to demonstrate how difficult the life of the poor was then.

 

I'm confused about how Demelza was "timid". She seems to have developed over the episodes and shown increasing amounts of spunk to me - she had some great repartee with Ross this episode. And she had enough gumption to go to Ross's room and seduce him when she thought she might be sent away. Not much timid about that. I thought the Ross/Demelza kissing and romantic scenes were perfect for where they are in their relationship, and for the time it's set. I admit I'd have like to have seen a bit more of the seduction scene, because I think it was very sexy, but I think we'll see more of that part of their relationship in future episodes, and if I were the writer, I'd want to keep some of that back to keep people watching.

[rozen]

They're covering a lot of time, but with no cues to tell the viewer it's happened than Poldark saying "it's been 2 years." I think it would have been more effective to show panoramas how the Poldark estate was getting built back up again, instead of endless scenic riding shots. Things like that, and slow evolution in fashions, etc, would make it less jarring.

 

There were peasant families merrily dancing around when the mine opened. If they're barely surviving, I doubt they had time to take an entire day from their other duties to celebrate the opening of a mine that paid marginally better and was considered an enormous gamble by just about everybody. Some old grannies and ill grandpas seeing their sons off? Sure. But able-bodied women and children who are probably meant to be off scrubbing pots somewhere? No. 

 

Having 8 people standing inches apart to move a small bit of rock is not any type of mining I'm familiar with. But maybe smaller operations did indeed work that way, it just struck me as odd. 

 

I think it was a weakness of the books that Elizabeth seemed super boring but everyone was consistently losing their minds over her. She was clearly meant to have some sort of hidden charm or beauty that didn't communicate at all. At least until the later books. The Poldark uncle is all bark and no bite, though. He makes deep and grumbly threats and assertions, but they're never scary. I always felt like Ross was on the precipice of utter destruction in the books, but maybe my nostalgia is overtaking me and the main house were always wimps.

 

Ah, was it WWI that Mitchel died in? My bad, I just started laughing hysterically at the beginning, like "hah, he's going to get ambushed again, yea? Demonstrate his bravery despite his insouciant peronality?" At least he's had plenty of practice at that part, I feel like that showed those flashbacks every 2s in Being Human. Aidan is plenty charismatic, I just feel like he hasn't made any other faces than "smolder smexy face" and "scrunched up angry smexy face." Anyway, just opinions and all that.

Edited March 23, 2015 by rozen

[Glaze Crazy]

Non-book-reader, non-70's-version-watcher here. I'm enjoying reading thoughts from others who have read the books and/or seen the earlier version.  I'm watching Outlander from the POV of a long-time book fan, so it's fun for me to be on the other side of the coin here.

 

I won't compare the two since, at the minimum, the stories are told from different gender POVs, as far as I can tell. Plus being made for different outlets. Pay cable in the US (Starz/HBO/etc) has much different limits vs. broadcast/public tv like BBC. I don't know if the connection between what's made for BBC will eventually end up in the US on either BBCA or PBS is established when shows are made, but I can see that some consideration is probably taken for what might not be air-able once it comes over the pond.

 

I'm still liking this story as it's unfolding but I did have to stop and try and figure out how much time has passed since the 1st episode. My only point of reference was Elizabeth's baby which at least gave me a 9 month time space, since it seems they bumped her wedding date up after Ross came home.

 

I was concerned for Ross when he challenged the court for Jim's sentence. I hope he doesn't need their goodwill later in the story.  I don't know the protocol behind which mine the men would work for, is it a choice based on wages or because the men are already tenants on Ross's land so they would revert back to his employ once he opened up Wheal Leisure again?  The fact that Francis is basically a pampered man without any idea of his family's business is already a strike against the future of Grambler. I'm getting a kick out of George Wallegan just lurking around in the background waiting for one of the Poldarks to stumble or fail so he can swoop in and take over their property. If Charles goes out it looks to be Francis who gets taken over by the Wallegans. What I don't understand is, if the mines are such a risky business already and the Wallegans don't want to take over the operations themselves, why are they waiting around like vultures?

 

I get a mixed vibe from Demelza. She seemed to be, up to now, fascinated by Ross and cares for him, but her turning into a seductress so easily was jarring to me. Are we to sense she would do whatever it took not to go back to her father's house so acted more out of desperation than real love or desire for Ross? Would they have got to that point without the threat of her being collected by her father, since it doesn't seem like Ross had any idea that was going to happen. His marrying her was the right thing to do, but it doesn't bode well for their future unless her character becomes even more outgoing and rises above the master/servant mindset. Although she did say to him that she could see he was more sympathetic to the lower classes than most of his social stature so I guess that's where their story is headed.

[skyways]

Hello all. I'm new here although I've been a reader for some time. I wanted to respond to this because I've read the books , seen the 70's version and am watching this one.

 

With regards to Demelza, I though it was played as the book wrote it. She did not want to leave - not necessarily because of Ross but if you remember, she felt more at home there than in her real home ( ' I belong here' from the previous episode ) Her father was abusive and she appreciated being clean and without lice.

Anyway she knew instinctively that Ross would send her back if her father insisted since he was now re-married and reformed. So she felt it in her bones that she was leaving soon so she did the only thing she thought of - which was to seduce thinking/hoping it would work in some way. After the Elizabeth visit, she realized this was not going to be as simple as she thought, gave up and packed. But he brought her back and married her - basically out of honor and also it wouldn't be right to keep her in the house knowing he would use her again and again while her father was alive. I hope it's clear as English is not my first language.

[skyways]

Also wanted to add that she is a street person  and not innocent to certain things. In the older version she even offered herself in the first scene with Ross after he brought her home ( I'll take it off for one shilling!), and that seduction scene was played a bit more brazen that this version (Do you think I'm pretty, Captain?). They had him sitting, leaning back in the chair with her kneeling in front of him while acting coy. I didn't really enjoy that version as Ross basically asked her to leave in the morning and that he was doing it for her sake!!

  So this version is playing closely to the books which I appreciate. This Demelza plays her more womanly and the other was more alley-cat and child-like.

[MrsE]

I'd like to add that I think that the post coital, erotic daze Demelza was in was beautifully conveyed.  The lying amongst the flowers, the gazing at her man in the field and the heartbreakingly giddy run into the house with the cornflowers at which point the whole fantasy fell apart.  I could have cried for her.

[Pogojoco]

I'd like to add that I think that the post coital, erotic daze Demelza was in was beautifully conveyed.  The lying amongst the flowers, the gazing at her man in the field and the heartbreakingly giddy run into the house with the cornflowers at which point the whole fantasy fell apart.  I could have cried for her.

Demelza also looked absolutely stunning- probably the most beautiful she's looked all series. And this is a seriously cute girl, so there's a lot of competition. She has an amazingly changeable face. I think the show did a decent job of showing how Demelza changed over those months episode 2 and 3 covered. She changed because she was happier and safer and got food regularly, but also became more womanly because she's sexually attracted to Ross. Usually, shows have the girl consciously change (or has a friend or whoever make her over) but this felt organic, like watching the dude skinny dip woke something up in her that she wasn't aware of. It fits in to the whole nature child thing Demelza has going for her, and it's rather sexy. They just dig each other.

[crowswork]

Re. Elizabeth, I'm confused: you seem to be saying she was a wet fish in the books as well (as I've also read elsewhere), but you're unhappy they didn't find a more engaging actress. They were trying to follow the books closely with this adaptation, so they wouldn't have been looking to make her a more engaging character on the show than she was in the books - is that what you wanted?

 

That is the most obvious holdover from the 70's version. This Elizabeth could be the original's daughter if memory serves. Dark hair but same chicklet teeth.

[Neurochick]

I didn't read the books, nor did I watch the 1970'a version. I like this version just fine, and I'd like to talk about this version, that's all.

[Primetimer]

I'm here to tell you that, among his other assets, Ross Poldark's got some nice hands.

Read the story

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I'm with you on that, Neurochick.  Having not read the books nor seen the 1970s series, all of the comparisons mean very little to me.

 

I can't believe Ross was still all broody and pining over Elizabeth, even after she had the baby.  At the very least, the stuff with Jim gave him something else to brood about.  But good Lord, I wish the guy would crack a joke on occasion.

 

Also, much as I - a red-blooded American woman - enjoyed seeing Aidan Turner shirtless, I can't get over thinking scything topless is a dangerous endeavor.

[Nidratime]

I've read the books and I've seen the 1970's version which I absolutely loved. It's really hard not to compare. They even featured the previous Ross Poldark in tonight's episode which tells us they knew and hoped they'd get their former viewers back ... which leads us back to comparisons.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I get that it is difficult to not compare - I've watched a number of Pride & Prejudice adaptations, so I understand the tendency. But also, I think it is entirely possible to talk about an adaptation without necessarily referencing other adaptations.  And I have to say, the comparisons to the 70s version are becoming a bit overbearing.  I think I wouldn't mind them so much if they didn't seem to be constant and if they didn't seem to preclude discussion of this version on its own merits, as opposed to how it compares to the books or the 1970s version.

[Pyralis]

Well, that's how you make one of the pivotal scenes in the entire saga completely bloodless. I'll watch to the end, but I can't call myself engaged with the characters.

[CalamityBoPeep]

Watching tonight, all I could think on the wedding scene was: "Well, that was... sudden."  I feel like we're missing so much of something, but I'm not really wanting to add anything to my already overloaded "to be read" stack.  Everything just seems so choppy and brief, like they're just trying to hit plot points that have some deep meaning, but turn out to feel fairly meaningless because they haven't devoted any time to developing a story that would move from point A to point B.

 

Since this show is my first experience with this story, I'm wondering if I'm supposed to be picking up on some depths that I'm just not getting.  I'm not usually this out of touch with character nuances in shows, so I'm starting to think that the nuances just aren't happening on the screen.

 

It's pretty though.  I'll probably finish out the season, just for that.  Cornwall is now on my bucket list.

[Pogojoco]

I'm sort of sad some of you aren't enjoying this as much as I did when I watched it all in the spring. 

 

And the wedding is sudden because Ross is impulsive. 

 

And I thought this was funny in the spring and still think it's funny- Demelza seems to have gotten into the dress alright alone but somehow needs help to get it off. She's not dumb, this one. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by Pogojoco

[LittleIggy]

Someone as fair and red headed as Demelza should be as red as Judd after mowing a field without a hat on! That girl should be sunburned to a crisp.

[lucindabelle]

They were dancing atv he wedding not to celebrate having. Job. That was clear. There were shots of the bride and groom.

Why did Ross have no other witnesses? Theyd clearly gone home to change.

[Pogojoco]

They were dancing atv he wedding not to celebrate having. Job. That was clear. There were shots of the bride and groom.

Why did Ross have no other witnesses? Theyd clearly gone home to change.

Impulsive and they were the only ones at home. 

And it becomes clear in the next episode that one of the motivations for Ross was sticking it to the upper class. He's telling them he'll do what he wants and how he wants to. Only inviting the servants to his wedding to another servant fits in.

Not to say that he also doesn't totally dig Demelza.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Pogojoco

[lucindabelle]

Ok I can buy that.

Ross was also right in that antagonizing the judge was the WORST way to go. I was cringing. But I did appreciate his righteous temper afterwards.

[KR Vermont]

This all feels more like a synopsis than a complete show.  imo

Lots left to the imagination, without prior knowledge for some of us.

Edited July 6, 2015 by KR Vermont

[skyways]

I watched this version from a beginner's eye even though I am not new to the old version and the books and felt that if I was not already familiar with this version, I would be lost and confused about certain scenes. Glad to see that I'm not the only one with the observation or feeling that ALOT is not being told.

That's why for me the reference to the original source is almost unavoidable and inevitable. This version is some instances is begging for clarifications. Of course this may not be so for everyone but I found it so even as a book reader. ( and PBS editting complicates things further)

[WatchrTina]

 

Watching tonight, all I could think on the wedding scene was: "Well, that was... sudden."

Me too.  I'm a non-reader, first-time viewer but I've read enough fiction set in this time frame to know that marrying the kitchen maid is going to cause a major scandal and It's not clear to me why Ross does it.  I presume it's because, having slept with her, he feels it is the only honorable thing to do, but this is a man who has consorted with hookers on the show so that seems unrealistically idealistic of him.

 

I also can't figure out why Ross has that green gown in a chest in his study.  Did it belong to his mother?

[jjj]

And I thought this was funny in the spring and still think it's funny- Demelza seems to have gotten into the dress alright alone but somehow needs help to get it off. She's not dumb, this one. 

I was watching and had the same question -- Demelza, if you got into the dress, you can get *out* of the dress.  Then realized -- she's too clever by half, as they say. 

 

I had forgotten that Robin Ellis would be appearing, so that was a lovely surprise to see him in his full bewigged glory. 

 

I wait for the show to go onto the PBS site to watch in HD -- and if you have not seen it in HD, the dress fabric is quite stunning, constantly shifting in colour.  Also, the scenery is quite breathtaking, but I say that every week.  The cinematography is astonishing -- Demelza in that field of flowers was so beautiful.  And I loved the opening, with one man, then two men, then three men, then a whole stream of workers joyfully headed toward new work.  Stunning. 

[Big Bad Wolf]

Yes, the green gown belonged to his mother. I have sympathy with people feeling some things need clarifying. The novels provide all the clarification one needs, but I appreciate people thinking one shouldn't have to read them to understand everything. The writer, Debbie Horsfield, just wasn't given enough episodes, IMO. She got them (Mammoth Screen - production company, BBC, PBS) to agree to increase to 8 from originally requested 6 to adapt the first two novels, but she needed 10 at least. So yes, things can seem rushed, but she's done the best she could with the run-time she had available to her, IMO. I also think things do seem to slow down a bit from here.

Re. Ross marrying Demelza so quickly, yes, he did it to be honorable, but he also had genuine affection for Demelza, and, I think, liked sleeping with her. It wasn't all about being honorable. Ross explains his reasons in the next episode, which should help some.

[JudyObscure]

The cinematography is astonishing -- Demelza in that field of flowers was so beautiful.

Oh yes. I thought the whole episode was breathtaking. I'm finding Demelza's story, and what the actress is doing with it' just wonderful. I like her overwhelming love for Ross, how, in her eagerness to please him, she has quickly gone from "feral," to "lady," with still enough awkwardness left to make her charming and innocent. She is sensitive enough to know he has feelings for Elizabeth and you can see how intimidated she is by her. Elizabeth's dig about how quickly wild flowers fade was not lost on her, I think she's very smart. I wasn't expecting the wedding, but I'm glad Demelza has that security, because her passion for Ross makes her completely vulnerable.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I'm not really experiencing the confusion that others are, and his reasons for marrying Demelza seemed pretty apparent to me.  He spent the entire episode feeling responsible for Jim Carter, to the point where he almost subjected himself to a contempt of court charge. He obviously feels responsible for the people who work for him or are his tenants.

 

He already knows that people are talking about his relationship with Demelza, he said that to her right before they slept together.  He witnessed the way that Elizabeth was treating Demelza when she figured out that something was up between them.  So, of course a guy who feels that responsible for the people who work for him is going to feel that he can't let Demelza be vulnerable to the censure of the upper class, and that he needs to rectify that through his own actions. 
 

And I thought this was funny in the spring and still think it's funny- Demelza seems to have gotten into the dress alright alone but somehow needs help to get it off. She's not dumb, this one.

 

Pogojoco, I thought the same thing. She must be pretty limber :)

Edited July 6, 2015 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Fishy]

I've held out until this episode hoping my interest would grow, but no such luck.  Bottom line I think this is the hokiest production ever.  And nothing about Ross keeps me interested.  B o r I n g.  and Demelza?  doubly b o r I n g.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Fishy

[Milz]

What a mixed message mess!

 

Francis is all “sit by Elizabeth, cousin! Make yourself comfy!” one minute. Then since we have to be reminded what a Big Bad Gansta George is, a whisper into Francis’ ear and Francis becomes “Get your ape hands off my baby and my wife”. 

 

Ross doesn’t mind the miners calling him “Ross” but then is upset that Demelza dares to actually wear fine clothing like that ladies’ dress Ross has stashed away in a chest. (Hmmmm….are we supposed to think Ross has secret of the Bruce Jenner kind? If not, they should have informed the 21st century jaded viewer that the dress and the other junk in the truck belonged to Ross’ late mother. Otherwise the same viewers who have to be constantly reminded that George is a bad guy would think that a  single man + chest filled with women's apparel = transvestite.)

 

That brings me to another thing….I hope Ross is a better mine owner than he is a farmer. Scything a field of fully bloomed Queen Anne’s Lace (couldn’t tell if it was hemlock) means Rossy is starting his plowing in mid-summer, which is too late for crops like wheat. And once upon a time, the BBC used to portray actors using tools in a realistic way: I guess they don’t have a budget for that anymore because Ross was using a scythe like a machete.

 

I suppose if they had to have one shot gun wedding in this version of Poldark, it would be in the lower classes.

Demelza v. Elizabeth: Demelza is crushed because Elizabeth doesn’t want the flowers and makes an underhanded comment. Really?  So crushed is Demelza that she takes Garrick and does a runner? Hasn’t much of a spine our Demelza.

 

Robin Ellis rocked it as the judge. No pained expressions of angst. No overly acted speeches. He just rocked it.

[WatchrTina]

Question for the readers.  Was Demelza a virgin when she slept with Ross and did Ross <ahem> realize it?  if so, that might help me wrap my brain around his sudden decision to marry the kitchen maid.

 

 

And once upon a time, the BBC used to portray actors using tools in a realistic way: I guess they don’t have a budget for that anymore because Ross was using a scythe like a machete.

I can honestly say I wasn't paying much attention to his technique in that scene because, damn.  

 

Though I will admit to wondering why anyone would cut down a field of Queen Anne's Lace.  Does that plant have any value on the open market at this time?  

 

And what time IS this?  Poldark went off to fight in the American Revolution and then came home so it feels like this ought to be the 1780s or 1790s at the latest but I thought I saw something that said this was set in the 1810s.  How old IS Ross Poldark?

 

ETA:  Doesn't Ross tell that young man with the pregnant girlfriend to hurry up and get the banns read in church so that they can wed?  Don't the banns have to be read three times on three successive Sundays before the wedding?  I think I learned that from Outlander.  In that show they bribe the priest to overlook that rule.  How did Ross manage a wedding the next day -- did he bribe the minister too?

Edited July 6, 2015 by WatchrTina

[jjj]

Robin Ellis rocked it as the judge. No pained expressions of angst. No overly acted speeches. He just rocked it.

Completely agree!  Just:  "we are here for the Law, and I especially am here for the Law."

 

Yes, the green gown belonged to his mother.

I'm sorry, but ick.  She puts on his mother's dress, and *that* is when he makes his move?  I thought it must have some connection to Elizabeth.  I was a bit mystified that he had dresses in storage. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

What a mixed message mess!

 

Francis is all “sit by Elizabeth, cousin! Make yourself comfy!” one minute. Then since we have to be reminded what a Big Bad Gansta George is, a whisper into Francis’ ear and Francis becomes “Get your ape hands off my baby and my wife”. 

 

Ross doesn’t mind the miners calling him “Ross” but then is upset that Demelza dares to actually wear fine clothing like that ladies’ dress Ross has stashed away in a chest. (Hmmmm….are we supposed to think Ross has secret of the Bruce Jenner kind? If not, they should have informed the 21st century jaded viewer that the dress and the other junk in the truck belonged to Ross’ late mother. Otherwise the same viewers who have to be constantly reminded that George is a bad guy would think that a  single man + chest filled with women's apparel = transvestite.)

 

But I feel like this is a contradictory criticism or one where they can't win either way.  Either the writers are trusting the viewer too much to figure out what is going on or they are spelling everything out too much.  If you are going to criticize them for having George spell everything out too much, can you really then criticize them for being subtle around the original ownership of the green dress?

 

FWIW, I assumed that the dress belonged to his mother, because who else would have it belonged to?  The point was that it reminded him of his family, etc. I didn't need either Ross or Demelza to exactly spell out who the dress belonged to originally.

 

I am not saying this production is perfect but these criticisms that things are being left out or aren't being explained perfectly seem to imply that the viewer is not smart enough to figure out what is going on on their own, and that doesn't make much sense to me. Whether or not I agree with the characters' actions, I can usually figure out why they are making the decisions that they are based on how the characters are being presented.  I'd get kind of bored if every time a character acts, there was someone there explaining why they did. That's not how things happen in real life.

 

(Also, with regard to the mowing, Ross talked to Demelza earlier in the episode about the various fields she had mowed. So perhaps, yes, Ross was starting to mow in late summer but that doesn't mean that the rest of the estate hadn't already been mowed.  Maybe there was a final field or two he was trying to get to before the end of the summer).

Edited July 6, 2015 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Llywela]

And what time IS this?  Poldark went off to fight in the American Revolution and then came home so it feels like this ought to be the 1780s or 1790s at the latest but I thought I saw something that said this was set in the 1810s.  How old IS Ross Poldark?

Book 1 (episodes 1-4) covers the years 1783-1787. Ross is 23 when he returns home from America, 27 when he marries Demelza (who gives her age as 18, but isn't quite).

 

The 12 books of the series go right through to the 1810s.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Llywela

[NumberCruncher]

Question for the readers.  Was Demelza a virgin when she slept with Ross and did Ross <ahem> realize it?  if so, that might help me wrap my brain around his sudden decision to marry the kitchen maid.

Yes, she is a virgin. He does marry her, in part, out of obligation to do the right thing. He talks about it more in the next episode.

 

I can honestly say I wasn't paying much attention to his technique in that scene because, damn.  

 

Though I will admit to wondering why anyone would cut down a field of Queen Anne's Lace.  Does that plant have any value on the open market at this time?

Ross has no money to speak of after years without a working mine. They have to clear the fields in order to have workable land for food, grazing, etc. 

 

And what time IS this?  Poldark went off to fight in the American Revolution and then came home so it feels like this ought to be the 1780s or 1790s at the latest but I thought I saw something that said this was set in the 1810s.  How old IS Ross Poldark?

They are in the 1780s right now.

Edited July 6, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[LuciaMia]

 

on the wedding scene was: "Well, that was... sudden."

As somebody earlier said...Don't the banns have to be read from the pulpit three Sundays in a row? I mean this is 19c Cornwall, not Las Vegas. You can't just show up in front of a minister and say' we wanna get hitched.'  You could run off to Gretna Green or get a special license from the Archbishop of Canterbury, but I doubt Poldark swung that.

But maybe that will contribute to the scandal, Ross and Demelza getting married without the proper procedure.

 

(If I remember, Ross insists on marrying her when he finds out she's pregnant)

[Big Bad Wolf]

That brings me to another thing….I hope Ross is a better mine owner than he is a farmer. Scything a field of fully bloomed Queen Anne’s Lace (couldn’t tell if it was hemlock) means Rossy is starting his plowing in mid-summer, which is too late for crops like wheat.

 

This is pretty pedantic. Obviously what he was scything (scything scene adapted directly from novel) was dependent at what time they were filming. They could hardly be expected to organise the whole shoot around making sure he could be scything at exactly the right time for this to be convincing to people who know far more about this kind of thing than 99.9% of viewers.

 

And once upon a time, the BBC used to portray actors using tools in a realistic way: I guess they don’t have a budget for that anymore because Ross was using a scythe like a machete.

 

Actually, the BBC did have an expert there when filming who showed Aidan the correct way to scythe, and Aidan was perfectly aware that he was doing it 'wrong' for the people who are bothered about this kind of thing, but he did it the way he did it to portray Ross's urge to take out his frustrations via his task. So, no, not a "budget" issue, an actor's choice 'issue'.

 

Demelza v. Elizabeth: Demelza is crushed because Elizabeth doesn’t want the flowers and makes an underhanded comment. Really?  So crushed is Demelza that she takes Garrick and does a runner? Hasn’t much of a spine our Demelza.

 

Demelza isn't "crushed" by Elizabeth's comment; she's upset because she feels that after their night together, Ross is still hankering after Elizabeth, so she takes what remains of her self-respect and prepares to return home, even though that entails leaving behind the man she adores. Seems like quite a strong "spine" to me.

[Big Bad Wolf]

Question for the readers. Was Demelza a virgin when she slept with Ross and did Ross <ahem> realize it?  if so, that might help me wrap my brain around his sudden decision to marry the kitchen maid.

 

I'm sure he did realise it, but his decision to marry her was complex and largely to do with it being the honourable thing to do. At the time, either he married her, to preserve her honour and treat her with respect, he sent her home in disgrace, or he kept sleeping with her without marrying her and pretty much made her his whore. As Ross is an honourable man, only one choice in the circumstances. Ross explains his motives for marrying her fully in the next episode.

 

Though I will admit to wondering why anyone would cut down a field of Queen Anne's Lace.  Does that plant have any value on the open market at this time? 

 

This is definitely over-thinking that scene.

 

And what time IS this?  Poldark went off to fight in the American Revolution and then came home so it feels like this ought to be the 1780s or 1790s at the latest but I thought I saw something that said this was set in the 1810s.  How old IS Ross Poldark?

 

No idea where you saw anything saying it's set in the 1810s. This season is set in the 1780s. Ross is about 27/8 when he marries Demelza, who is about 10 years younger than him.

 

Doesn't Ross tell that young man with the pregnant girlfriend to hurry up and get the banns read in church so that they can wed?  Don't the banns have to be read three times on three successive Sundays before the wedding?  I think I learned that from Outlander.  In that show they bribe the priest to overlook that rule.  How did Ross manage a wedding the next day -- did he bribe the minister too?

 

You could also get a marriage licence via Special Licence applied to from the bishop, if you had the cash to do it, which presumably Ross did. They can't have had the Banns read because then the upcoming marriage would have been public knowledge, which it clearly was not. I think in the book, the marriage was a couple of weeks after Ross and Demelza first slept together.

 

I'm sorry, but ick.  She puts on his mother's dress, and *that* is when he makes his move?  I thought it must have some connection to Elizabeth.  I was a bit mystified that he had dresses in storage.

 

Pretty sure him making the move at that point had zero to do with Demelza wearing his mother's old dress. He'd lost his mother many years ago; it was just an old dress. Why on earth is that 'ick'?

Edited July 6, 2015 by Big Bad Wolf

[dubbel zout]

Ross doesn’t mind the miners calling him “Ross” but then is upset that Demelza dares to actually wear fine clothing like that ladies’ dress Ross has stashed away in a chest.

 

He minds that she's snooping around his stuff. He said as much: Being his housemaid gives her certain privileges, but looking in all the chests in his bedroom isn't one of them.

[Milz]

But I feel like this is a contradictory criticism or one where they can't win either way.  Either the writers are trusting the viewer too much to figure out what is going on or they are spelling everything out too much.  If you are going to criticize them for having George spell everything out too much, can you really then criticize them for being subtle around the original ownership of the green dress?

 

FWIW, I assumed that the dress belonged to his mother, because who else would have it belonged to?  The point was that it reminded him of his family, etc. I didn't need either Ross or Demelza to exactly spell out who the dress belonged to originally.

 

I am not saying this production is perfect but these criticisms that things are being left out or aren't being explained perfectly seem to imply that the viewer is not smart enough to figure out what is going on on their own, and that doesn't make much sense to me. Whether or not I agree with the characters' actions, I can usually figure out why they are making the decisions that they are based on how the characters are being presented.  I'd get kind of bored if every time a character acts, there was someone there explaining why they did. That's not how things happen in real life.

 

(Also, with regard to the mowing, Ross talked to Demelza earlier in the episode about the various fields she had mowed. So perhaps, yes, Ross was starting to mow in late summer but that doesn't mean that the rest of the estate hadn't already been mowed.  Maybe there was a final field or two he was trying to get to before the end of the summer).

 

The fact that they keep hammering the point that George is a bad man shows how they regard the viewers inability to pick up major cues let alone subtle ones like mowing a field when half the growing season is past. Changing a sentence from "you dare to wear finery" to "How dare you wear my mother's clothing!" isn't going to break the production's bank account. The class distinction they're pushing is really hollow when the miners call their boss and landlord by his given name: not Mr. Ross, not Captain Poldark, just Ross. 

 

 

This is pretty pedantic. Obviously what he was scything (scything scene adapted directly from novel) was dependent at what time they were filming. They could hardly be expected to organise the whole shoot around making sure he could be scything at exactly the right time for this to be convincing to people who know far more about this kind of thing than 99.9% of viewers.

 

Actually, the BBC did have an expert there when filming who showed Aidan the correct way to scythe, and Aidan was perfectly aware that he was doing it 'wrong' for the people who are bothered about this kind of thing, but he did it the way he did it to portray Ross's urge to take out his frustrations via his task. So, no, not a "budget" issue, an actor's choice 'issue'.

 

Demelza isn't "crushed" by Elizabeth's comment; she's upset because she feels that after their night together, Ross is still hankering after Elizabeth, so she takes what remains of her self-respect and prepares to return home, even though that entails leaving behind the man she adores. Seems like quite a strong "spine" to me.

 

When this version is supposed to be closer to the book, it invites pedantry. Heh...I guess we'll be seeing green lush fields during Christmas too.

 

Well, if Aidan Turner wanted to portray Ross as a moron, knock himself out: it's a testament to his acting range.

 

I disagree about Demelza. Elizabeth's comment crushes her. Since it's verboten to discuss the book in this thread, all I can say is that this Demelza is a spineless worm.

[CalamityBoPeep]

But I feel like this is a contradictory criticism or one where they can't win either way.  Either the writers are trusting the viewer too much to figure out what is going on or they are spelling everything out too much.  If you are going to criticize them for having George spell everything out too much, can you really then criticize them for being subtle around the original ownership of the green dress?

 

FWIW, I assumed that the dress belonged to his mother, because who else would have it belonged to?  The point was that it reminded him of his family, etc. I didn't need either Ross or Demelza to exactly spell out who the dress belonged to originally.

 

I am not saying this production is perfect but these criticisms that things are being left out or aren't being explained perfectly seem to imply that the viewer is not smart enough to figure out what is going on on their own, and that doesn't make much sense to me. Whether or not I agree with the characters' actions, I can usually figure out why they are making the decisions that they are based on how the characters are being presented.  I'd get kind of bored if every time a character acts, there was someone there explaining why they did. That's not how things happen in real life.

 

I'm not trying to imply that the viewer isn't smart enough to figure out on their own... that'd be like saying that I'm not smart enough, since I'm calling the show out on leaving important character development to fans on message boards to explain. I'm not saying I can't come up with some reason that some action might be ok, based on the world as presented in the story.  I'm saying that the character actions ought to be based on something other than serving to push the plot forward, because, otherwise the characters just look like idiots.  I like to delve into who the people I'm watching are.  But I don't enjoy that the most obvious "character beats", the one the show chooses to highlight, are the ones in which characters are doing something that in the real world screams "idiot!"

 

(I'm assuming, that in the books, there is a lot more character development going on, and these beats are just a smidgen of the actual story.  If I'm wrong about that, then... yeah, I really don't want to read the books, I guess.)

 

I just enjoy seeing a character arc that makes sense in my entertainment.  Keyword being "seeing."  I don't go in for action movies much, either... not enough character, too much plot, and for what? Basically just something to look at.  But I love Clint Eastwood movies, even though most of his character development is silently portrayed. It's silent, but it's there. So it's not that I need it spelled out for me.  I just need there to be something more than the plot to demand the characters do this thing, whatever it might be.

 

I know I'm not doing this idea much justice, and it probably seems that I'm being nit-picky, but the characterization here just seems to completely shallow to me.  The actors are bringing what they can to it, so I don't think it's them.  And I generally appreciate a little mystery to the characterizations in my shows, but in this case, it seems like I'm just along for a plot-hopping ride.

 

Maybe most of the character development is falling through the holes of "WTF?!"

 

I mean, sheesh, Francis is already jealous of Ross and Elizabeth certainly knows the score, and they've all spent roughly a year going around the same tree, (I'm guessing, based on standard pregnancy length... plus a few months on either end of the pregnancy)... and yet!  Elizabeth thinks it'd be a good idea to have Ross be the Godfather???  (Yes, that plan didn't happen, but still!  WTF!?).  And Francis still... still... is all "hey, sit over here, close to the wife I fear you want to take from me" and taking out, on Elizabeth, his frustration with the situation that He. Set. Up!  Really???  WTF?!

 

If this is the way the book reads, I imagine, for me, it'd be a wall-banger.  I just can't get on board with characters that are so stupidly unaware of their own idiocy.  These folks need a clue-bat, in a big way.  

 

Francis! Listen up!  If you feel that threatened, maybe don't throw your nemesis and your wife together for precious alone-time!  Idiot.  

 

Elizabeth!  You there! Listen... it's done.  Move on. You've made your bed, you get to lie in it. 

 

Ross!  Putting some distance between yourself and them, might be a really good idea.  You're just asking for trouble, you big galoot.  Send a nice card, congratulating them on their son, or something.  

 

Even though I thought the marriage was sudden, I'm still on board with it.  That is the one thing that has happened that seemed like a pretty good idea, to me, even though it's bound to cause problems down the road with Ross's standing with his peers.  And I imagine it's going to be pretty tough on his new wife, who isn't actually primed to fit in with this social circle.  But still, from a "making a choice" perspective, it didn't strike me as asinine.  Which is really all I ask of the characters I'm supposed to invest in.  Just don't be stupid.

 

Maybe that's asking a lot.  After all, the world is filled with stupid people.  Most of their lives aren't good fiction though, and who really wants to watch them?  Unless one is watching in a reality-tv-hate-snarking way.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

He minds that she's snooping around his stuff. He said as much: Being his housemaid gives her certain privileges, but looking in all the chests in his bedroom isn't one of them.

 

Right, plus he was frustrated about Jim and drunk. And he's attracted to Demelza but didn't want to take advantage of her, which doubled his frustration, no doubt. He was looking for a reason to unload and Demelza just happened to be there and gave him a convenient excuse to do so. None of this seemed difficult for me to understand, given the events of the episode.

 

I would have been fine for the love scene to go on a little longer but as it was, I liked it - it reminded me of an old school soap in the best way.  The tension between the two played very well and I thought the line about "if we behave this way, it will be true" (and Demelza's response, "so let it be true") gave us a lot of insight into the struggles both characters were dealing with in managing their attraction to each other.  Not everything needs to be explicit to be hot, IMO.

 

I'm saying that the character actions ought to be based on something other than serving to push the plot forward, because, otherwise the characters just look like idiots.  I like to delve into who the people I'm watching are.  But I don't enjoy that the most obvious "character beats", the one the show chooses to highlight, are the ones in which characters are doing something that in the real world screams "idiot!"

 

 

I just disagree.  To me, the character beats are all there and make sense given what we've seen.  I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone finds any of these characters' actions confusing based on what we've been shown. It's all very much in character, IMO, and fairly easy to figure out.  I feel as if a lot of the dissatisfaction is coming from either book readers or previous viewers who have a set view of how they want these characters to act based on their prior reading or viewing.  And while I get why that happens, it's frustrated to keep reading that there are these obviously glaring plot holes because someone who has prior knowledge of the story is insisting that there are plot holes.

Edited July 6, 2015 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Milz]

He minds that she's snooping around his stuff. He said as much: Being his housemaid gives her certain privileges, but looking in all the chests in his bedroom isn't one of them.

 

It's not his bedroom, it's the library.

 

And he specifically admonishes her for wearing fine clothing----to emphasize the class agenda, which I have already expressed how hollow that is.

 

Maybe most of the character development is falling through the holes of "WTF?!"

 

 

EXACTLY!

[eleanorofaquitaine]

It's not his bedroom, it's the library.

 

And he specifically admonishes her for wearing fine clothing----to emphasize the class agenda, which I have already expressed how hollow that is.

 

Have you never been angry and said irrational things in that anger? Have you never been a little tipsy and said something you shouldn't? 

 

Ross feeling ambivalent about class issues and then lashing out at Demelza while drunk and upset doesn't strike me as either hollow or somehow outside the realm of normal human behavior.

[LuciaMia]

Not nit-picky but a personal observation, when Ross's uncle said the phrase 'bite the dust.' my first thought 'thought that was an American expression, more from cowboy and western movies.'  But looking it up I see it goes all the way back to 1750.

***************

Poor Francis. That scene where he tries to have some face time with his mine workers was just painful.

***************

Is it just cause they were the old servants of his father? Otherwise, can't see why Ross would still be employing the pretty useless Jud and Prudy.

Edited July 6, 2015 by LuciaMia

[Milz]

 

 

Ross feeling ambivalent about class issues and then lashing out at Demelza while drunk and upset doesn't strike me as either hollow or somehow outside the realm of normal human behavior.

 

the production is inconsistent with class issues because it attempts to portray Ross as a "man of the people" on one finger and emphasize the class difference between Demelza and Ross on that finger's fingernail.

t

[skyways]

I also agree that so far not much clarification is needed from what we have seen so far. It fairly clear. Back I'm March I pointed out to the poster Llewleya that I did not think at this point that the 'secondary stories where detracting from the overall presentation so far and AT this point I found it so.

I did however find my self slightly agreeing with her as the series went on ( apologies as I am not trying to spoil anything). I began then to see certain discordant notes that became for me confusing.

Eleanorofaquitanr, I would really like to hear your views when the series is ended to see whether you stand by your impressions that the characters, developments and nuances are still clear. If you don't mind.

To further clarify further also on the dress situation ( I have to use the book here, apologies)

In Ross's eye, she suddenly liked grown up and desirable in it and he was taken aback by that. It wasn't about class despite the line about 'dressing up in fine clothes is not one of them'. Based on his actions towards Jim and his chewing out Demelza for her effontery to wear finery, I can see how one would think it was inconsistent with how this Ross is being portrayed. But it wasn't a 'snobbery thing' for him in that scene.