S11.E07: Week 6

[Shibori]

As someone who came of age in the 90s, I can't agree that the Cranberries are "C- level". It may have been before Kaitlyn's time, but they were certainly influential then. Now, were they slumming it by appearing on this show? That's another question entirely.

(Full disclosure: I have an acoustic version of "Zombie" that I got from Napster that gets me a little misty eyed every time I play it. Yeah, I'm old.)

Edited June 28, 2015 by Shibori

[jojomano]

Loved hearing The Cranberries! I think they sounded good too!

[Bella]

Please do not speculate about sexual abuse of the people on this show. It is unfair to both them and those in their past.

 

While this is indeed a snark site, that crosses the line into dickishness, which is not allowed here. We have hidden some posts and will delete any additional posts along these lines.

 

Thanks!

[saber5055]

My local ABC affiliate ran this episode yesterday, to make up for canceling it last Monday to do tornado coverage. Absolutely nothing else was on, so I watched it while working. It did turn out to be interesting. Mainly because it revealed much of Kaitlyn as a real person.

 

Kaitlyn wants honesty, so Ian meets with her and is totally honest in saying how he views her, as a chick out for a good time and not a husband. He expected to find heartbroken-over-Chris Kaitlyn and instead has found Big Jokester Crude Kaitlyn. Could Kaitlyn push her lips out any further to show her disgust that one of HER MEN would DARE question her motive for being a famewhore? Oh, I mean, for being there to find a husband?

 

If Kaitlyn were an adult, she would have politely told Ian: "Thank you for your honesty. I really appreciate you coming to me, and I'm sorry you feel that way. I wish we could have had a connection, you are a Great Guy (TM this show) and I hope you find what you are looking for. Are you ready to go home NOW?" and walk him out.

 

Instead, she throws a big pity party for herself, which Nick invites himself to. Then Nick turns it into the All About Nick All The Time Nick story.

 

I've decided if someone wants to shut Nick up, they should, like, remove, like, the word "like" from, like, his vocabulary. He can hardly speak without that crutch word. We thought Chris Soules was bad, Nick is the worst.

 

I did laugh at Ian saying he was tired of being around all the guys and hearing nothing but fart jokes and conversations about bodily functions. Hooray, Ian, you just summed up this season. 

 

As for Ian's VO being edited, I noticed his hands were completely covering his face when his voice said, "I need sex."

 

And speaking of sex, those editing monkeys were not being subtle in the least when, after showing us the shut door to Kaitlyn's bedroom and the translations of the moans and groans coming from within the room, they showed the exterior of the hotel where water (water?) was spewing from a pipe. Just ... gross. I'm guessing Ian, watching at home, is really REALLY glad he left.

 

The fake funeral thing ended up being kinda funny. But the RiverDancing ... ugh. Kaitlyn, to her credit, was at least trying. Nick? What a doof. I give him a big NO. Many of the tourists watching Kaitlyn and Nick "dance" had looks on their faces like they were watching a dog barf on the sidewalk. I kinda had that same look myself, watching at home.

 

How hilarious when Kaitlyn arrives in Dublin and declares it "the perfect place to fall in love." That puts Dublin in the same category as every other country, city and town on the globe where some Bach or Bach-ette has been.

Edited June 29, 2015 by saber5055

[truthaboutluv]

If Kaitlyn were an adult, she would have politely told Ian: "Thank you for your honesty. I really appreciate you coming to me, and I'm sorry you feel that way. I wish we could have had a connection, you are a Great Guy (TM this show) and I hope you find what you are looking for. Are you ready to go home NOW?" and walk him out.

 

Instead, she throws a big pity party for herself, which Nick invites himself to. Then Nick turns it into the All About Nick All The Time Nick story.

 

 

I don't understand why Kaitlyn would have to tell that big whopping lie of Ian being a great guy, when she clearly did not feel that way after the way he approached her.  Yes, she asked for honesty but there is a difference between being honest and being a jerk and basically insulting someone. That's basically what Nick said to Kaitlyn - that Ian talked to him about how he was feeling and he, Nick, told Ian to be honest yes and admit if maybe he doesn't think it's happening between him and Kaitlyn but don't approach it like he's attacking her. And that's exactly what Ian did.

 

It was essentially, "you are shallow, beneath me, not on my intellectual level, here to just hook up with guys, not worth my time, etc." And sure maybe that is true and Kaitlyn is the worse Bachelorette ever but I cannot imagine ANYONE, who when judged and verbally attacked that way would say nicely and calmly, "well thank you for being honest and you are a great guy but clearly we are not compaitble so let me walk you out." No...look how Andi went off on Eric who didn't say anything close to what Ian did and then proceeded to yell at the other guys who did nothing wrong.

 

Yes, you could tell Kaitlyn was clearly fuming with the pursed lips but honestly, I thought she remained amazingly calm and handled the situation fairly well. She was offended and insulted by Ian's comments and said so, which is her right. She didn't yell, make a scene, she just very politely told him why what he said offended and hurt her and then he left. I also didn't see her throwing a pity party for herself. She was shell shocked and the other guys knew something was up because they saw Ian leaving. Nick, likely because he had spoken to Ian, so had a very strong idea of what happened, took the opportunity to get some alone time with Kaitlyn.

 

I'm not arguing that this has been kind of a hot mess of a season and Kaitlyn a bit of a hot mess as the lead but I didn't think she was unreasonable in any way in how she handled the situation with Ian. As Andi, who I don't even care for, told Juan Pablo, "just being honest is not an excuse to be an asshole." I hate when people hide behind the "just being honest/keeping it real" excuse to be vicious and attack someone else. Ian could have expressed his feelings in a much better way without being as condescending and belittling as he was, imo.

Edited June 29, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[saber5055]

There is such a thing as "rising above it." A more mature adult can do that, regardless of what he/she is thinking or feeling inside. The knee-jerk reaction is not always the best. That's why the old adage, "Count to 10," exists.

 

Of course, that makes for TERRIBLE reality teevee.

[Padma]

I think Kaitlyn handled saying good-bye to the men on the show (Ian, Clint, Tony, that cocky jerk in between whose name I can't even remember now, fortunately). Much better in the moment than afterwards. Ridiculing them to the others in the mariachi song was just rude and her comments post-show haven't been any better.

 

She really seems so stupid, not even smart in the social/"street smart" sense which I thought she'd excel in. Does she not remember there's a television camera and an audience will be watching this? Does she not remember there will be "The Men Tell All" in which --maybe a first-- many bachelors are going to be very unflattering about the lead.

 

This isn't a new program with a brand new concept never seen before. Did she even -try- to prepare herself for some of the familiar PR pitfalls and personal conflicts/difficult situations for a b-ette? It's not -all- predictable, but at this point a lot of it is.

 

It seems she just can't be bothered to think ahead (or maybe to think at all).

[truthaboutluv]

There is such a thing as "rising above it." A more mature adult can do that, regardless of what he/she is thinking or feeling inside. The knee-jerk reaction is not always the best. That's why the old adage, "Count to 10," exists.

Of course, that makes for TERRIBLE reality teevee.

YMMV but that's just it, I felt like she did rise above in the moment and definitely looked like she was counting to 10 and exhaling. She didn't cuss at Ian, insult or mock him, scream at him, etc. She just very calmly defended herself and explained why what he said offended her. That said, I will agree with this:

 

I think Kaitlyn handled saying good-bye to the men on the show (Ian, Clint, Tony, that cocky jerk in between whose name I can't even remember now, fortunately). Much better in the moment than afterwards. Ridiculing them to the others in the mariachi song was just rude and her comments post-show haven't been any better.

While I do think in the moment, during the show, she handled most of these situations fine, the petty, snarky comments post-show on her blog, in media, etc. is not a good look.

Edited June 29, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[himela]

We haven't considered one option; Kaitlyn is not interested in finding a husband, she only wants to be the bachelorette to gain fame. The only person who wants the same (to get fame) is Nick. Kaitlyn agrees with Nick to play along till the end, create a dramatic season and then they have got all the fame they wanted. How do you hear that as an option?

[ByTor]

There is such a thing as "rising above it." A more mature adult can do that, regardless of what he/she is thinking or feeling inside.

I agree. If she couldn't take the high road and at least try to appear classy (which would have made her look all the better and Ian all the worse), she could have said something like "Wow...well I guess I asked what you think. Now that I know, I guess this means you'll be moving out."

[Canada]

I don't understand why Kaitlyn needs to take the high road, when some of these guys are definitely not doing that.  She's been incredibly patient with some of these jerks.  I wouldn't have been so nice, in the face of what some of these guys have been saying.  As has been mentioned, there's being honest and there's being a jerk.

[Padma]

But she's obviously -not- classy. Or smart enough to have decided how she'd -pretend- to be classy when problems came up (they always do, right?)   How can she possibly act that way?

 

I liked her on the Jimmy Kimmel date and forgot how, barely out of the gate, she'd been diving naked into the river in front of Chris and the other women on Chris's early group date.  Now that I look back on it, that really does seem a little weird, not just topless but bottomless, too. In a group. And so early on.

 

I like her less and less each week.  TMTA promises to be ugly unless -heavily- edited, and TPTB don't really seem Team Katilyn at this point. Hopefully by then I'll full-on dislike her and won't feel sorry for her at all during what will probably be such a terrible show that the highlight will be seeing Britt and Brady smiling cheerfully and telling us "We had a great time together but now, like mom said, it's 'just friends'." 

[Canada]

Depends on your definition of classy.

[ByTor]

I don't understand why Kaitlyn needs to take the high road, when some of these guys are definitely not doing that.

Because when a person acts like a jerk to another and the other person responds in kind, you have two jerks. If one person acts like a jerk to another and the other person takes the high road, you have one jerk and one who is above all that (cue in Kelsey's "I'm up here and he's down there" hand motions); therefore the original jerk now looks like a BIGGER jerk.

Edited June 29, 2015 by ByTor

[backformore]

I liked her on the Jimmy Kimmel date and forgot how, barely out of the gate, she'd been diving naked into the river in front of Chris and the other women on Chris's early group date.  Now that I look back on it, that really does seem a little weird, not just topless but bottomless, too. In a group. And so early on.

 

I like her less and less each week.  TMTA promises to be ugly unless -heavily- edited, and TPTB don't really seem Team Katilyn at this point. Hopefully by then I'll full-on dislike her and won't feel sorry for her at all during what will probably be such a terrible show that the highlight will be seeing Britt and Brady smiling cheerfully and telling us "We had a great time together but now, like mom said, it's 'just friends'." 

It seems like that's the way every season goes.   The audience, myself included, likes someone who is competing  for the B's affection.   We feel sympathy when they get dumped, and want them to have their own season.  They have their own season, and we see another side of their personality - bitchy, boring, controlling, and we dislike them.  But one of their discarded suitors tugs at our sympathy, so THEY get a season.   Lather, rinse, repeat. 

 

Because when a person acts like a jerk to another and the other person responds in kind, you have two jerks. If one person acts like a jerk to another and the other person takes the high road, you have one jerk and one who is above all that (cue in Kelsey's "I'm up here and he's down there" hand motions); therefore the original jerk now looks like a BIGGER jerk.

exactly!    The best response to Ian would have been "sorry you feel that way.  but you're right, we're not right for each other.  I hope you find someone"  and walk him out.   When asked for an explanation, stay classy, and say simply "we had a talk, and agreed we were not going to fall in love, so we wished each other well and agreed to go our separate ways. "   

 

And then "So who wants to make out?"   Because it is, after all, Kaitlyn we're talking about. 

Edited June 29, 2015 by backformore

[Mu Shu]

I don't understand why Kaitlyn needs to take the high road, when some of these guys are definitely not doing that.  She's been incredibly patient with some of these jerks.  I wouldn't have been so nice, in the face of what some of these guys have been saying.  As has been mentioned, there's being honest and there's being a jerk.

Because she's supposed to be the prize.   The prize is supposed to be desirable, not  a childish reactionary like Deanna.   Jillian was able to raise above a lot of assholery very gracefully.    Kaitlyn should have studied her season closely. 

[Canada]

I'm still not seeing any valid arguments for why Ian, Kupah, etc are allowed to be insulting & rude, but Kaitlyn is just supposed to smile politely, agree with everything they say, and take the high road.  Seems like one set of rules for the guys and a different one for the Bachelorette, which is wrong to me, but sadly seems to reflect how a lot in society view men and women.  I still think she's been pretty tolerant of some really dickish behaviour, which she doesn't deserve.  YMMV

[JenE4]

I'm still not seeing any valid arguments for why Ian, Kupah, etc are allowed to be insulting & rude, but Kaitlyn is just supposed to smile politely, agree with everything they say, and take the high road. Seems like one set of rules for the guys and a different one for the Bachelorette, which is wrong to me, but sadly seems to reflect how a lot in society view men and women. I still think she's been pretty tolerant of some really dickish behaviour, which she doesn't deserve. YMMV

What bothers me about Kaitlyn is that she doesn't say anything TO the guys directly. She then brings them I'm front of the other guys to let 'em have it with a full audience. The worst was with Clint. She actually held his hand to walk him back inside and then had her big speech of Clint told me X to publicly shame him. I think she would have done the same to Ian but he just walked out on his own. But it was the same kind of thing--didn't say anything to him and then just went off about him to the guys. She just won't let it drop--bringing up all the guys who walked out on her in her mariachi song, etc. Might be off topic, but apparently she still tweets mean things about the guys during the episodes. That kind of stuff is not taking the high road. I'd have more respect for her if she did stand up for herself in the moment and then DROP IT. I mean surely enough guys have walked out on her that she's formulated her perfect comeback after the fact and can just SAVE IT for the next one who walks out on her.

[Mu Shu]

Exactly.   I thought she handled Kupah well, then ran right back outside to get right back into it.     

 

There is no double standard.   Every Bachelorette/Bachelor is excoriated.   

Edited June 29, 2015 by Mu Shu

[ByTor]

There is no double standard.   Every Bachelorette/Bachelor is excoriated.

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure of where this "double standard" accusation is coming from.  I think that if the tables were turned and Kaitlyn were to start rudely bitching out some guy and he came back at her with insults, I imagine him being lambasted for speaking to a woman that way.

[call me ishmael]

Exactly.   I thought she handled Kupah well, then ran right back outside to get right back into it.     

 

There is no double standard.   Every Bachelorette/Bachelor is excoriated.   

 

I don't think think that she ran right outside to get back into it.  She heard him being rude to a crew member and went out because she felt responsible for the situation.  I remember thinking that that showed a lot of character as opposed to someone who would have heard that and just sat there to let some show minion bear the brunt of the guy's shouting.

 

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure of where this "double standard" accusation is coming from.  I think that if the tables were turned and Kaitlyn were to start rudely bitching out some guy and he came back at her with insults, I imagine him being lambasted for speaking to a woman that way.

 

I'd have to review previous seasons (which would cause my head to explode) but I doubt that she is the first bachelor or bachelorette who has said things about people after they have left.  And let's face it, Ian was ridiculous.  Anyone who declares, on the Bachelorette, their superiority because of their schools and their self-perceived hotness, then declares themselves self-aware and a "catch" and complains that Kaitlyn isn't behaving like a wounded and damaged rejectee waiting for someone to heal her but instead is having fun can't really claim to have been mistreated.  

 

There is a reason there was an article asking where Ian ranked on the list of most embarrassing tv Princetonians ever?

 

I also don't think that faced with that degree of hostility that she might not come out with an appropriate retort in the moment but might then release her emotions later to the group.  That it was Ian who prior to this seemed to me at least to be pretty reasonable would have increased the shock value.  And with Tony if someone was telling me he was a warrior with the soul of a poet (or whatever it was) I would have been freaked out too.

 

edited for typos

Edited June 30, 2015 by call me ishmael

[Andromeda]

I too noticed the bright sunny balcony and thought it seemed out of place for a Dublin hotel. So I googled the hotel they're supposedly staying at there - the Radisson Blu St. Helens. Yup, no balconies like the one we see in that shot. So where was she, talking like she just got her field plowed the night before? Does anyone remember where they were staying on the night Kaitlyn supposedly hooked up with Shawn? I feel like the producers definitely pulled a massive editing switcheroo here.

I saw the balcony. they're tiny European decorative balconies, not lanais like we're used to in modern U.S. hotels.

[saber5055]

And then "So who wants to make out?"   Because it is, after all, Kaitlyn we're talking about.

 

 

This made me laugh, and made me think of Sean's season. Wasn't he the one who never had anything to say, so when a date told him some deep story, his response was: KISS.

[Bean421]

This made me laugh, and made me think of Sean's season. Wasn't he the one who never had anything to say, so when a date told him some deep story, his response was: KISS.

I don't think that was Sean...It definitely rings true to me for Prince Farming and Juan Pabs.