Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[LoveLeigh]

As I watch the feeds I realize it is anybody's game to win. As they get down to the wire, the last HOH (if it is not Vanessa) will evict Vanessa because they all know she is poised to win. 

 

There is no player who will keep her in there and I think after this next eviction she just might go. I actually could see Liz winning over Vanessa if she stays in the house. 

[Kris117]

Yeah, I always said I really liked Meg, but her attitude after nominations put a bad taste in my mouth. She was just so offended and really couldn't understand how it could possibly be a game move - which, looking back, shouldn't have been a surprise because she really was a completely clueless about Big Brother. She was such a bitter, poor sport.

It's definitely different from the twins and even James, who talked a lot of trash and vented but clearly understood that it was just strategy after all.

Yes. I would love to hear her version of how she saw herself moving on to the end of the game, and what her jury speech would have been. Surreal, I am certain.

I have been trying to envision a competition she would have a lock on. She came closest in the wardrobe-matching challenge, didn't she?

Ah, already the post-BB fog is drifting in, making room in my brain for things like friends and family data.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Kris117

[Ceeg]

This season is unusual for me because most of the six are doing that. I went on and on about that in the episode thread, but the gist of it was that it refreshing to see that instead of the Brigade-type juggernaut.

 

 

As I watch the feeds I realize it is anybody's game to win. As they get down to the wire, the last HOH (if it is not Vanessa) will evict Vanessa because they all know she is poised to win. 

 

There is no player who will keep her in there and I think after this next eviction she just might go. I actually could see Liz winning over Vanessa if she stays in the house. 

I think that's why I've enjoyed this season so much, because the dumb people were taken out week by week, and now we're left with 5 gamers and Julia (sorry Julia). I literally have no idea who is going to win, and it's likely going to all come down to comp wins. There's no one left in the house the doesn't have at least 2 different F2's

 

I do think that Vanessa has reached a point where I don't think she can talk her way out of things. I think she might be tempted to throw this HOH comp, since she's likely not going to be anyone's initial noms (John would put up Julia/Austin, and Julia/Austin would put up John/Steve). But after that, she's going to need to win a veto or two.

[mooses]

I do think that Vanessa has reached a point where I don't think she can talk her way out of things. I think she might be tempted to throw this HOH comp, since she's likely not going to be anyone's initial noms (John would put up Julia/Austin, and Julia/Austin would put up John/Steve). But after that, she's going to need to win a veto or two.

I agree. With so few people, she's exposed. Especially because she is Solo Dolo now, she's almost scarier to the HGs because they can't predict her. Austin is playing a similar game, but he seems less dangerous - especially after a twin leaves - because he's more predictable.

If Julia or Austin win HoH, I think it's Vanessa and Steve/John up there - they'll tell Vanessa she's the pawn, but she'll go home. If John wins, Vanessa/Austin nominations with the same situation and outcome. If Vanessa wins, Steve and Austin nominations.

I can't see her throwing it. It's too risky.

[Ceeg]

If Julia or Austin win HoH, I think it's Vanessa and Steve/John up there - they'll tell Vanessa she's the pawn, but she'll go home. If John wins, Vanessa/Austin nominations with the same situation and outcome. If Vanessa wins, Steve and Austin nominations.

I think they have to put up Steve and John together, because if they leave one off and put Vanessa up, they run the risk of the other winning Veto, taking the person on the block off, and Austin would have to nominate Julia, or vice versa. In which case, Julia/Austin would get voted out. If they put up Steve and John and either wins veto, Vanessa can go up. While, if Vanessa wins veto, she won't veto a nomination. Or, at least she'll tell the HOH she won't.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Ceeg

[TimWil]

Wow. The Boss Man admits there were five or six casting mistakes this season! I bet he considers Steve, Austin and the twins to be four of them...

http://www.vulture.com/2015/09/leslie-moonves-on-20-years-at-cbs.html

[Cosmocrush]

I agree. With so few people, she's [Vanessa] exposed. Especially because she is Solo Dolo now, she's almost scarier to the HGs because they can't predict her.

Last night Vanessa told John  that she didn't even start to play the game until two weeks ago; she was just sitting back and observing.  Hahahahaha  Right. 

[Ceeg]

Last night Vanessa told John  that she didn't even start to play the game until two weeks ago; she was just sitting back and observing.  Hahahahaha  Right. 

I'm pretty sure she said she didn't start playing until Week 3, when she won her first HOH. She said the first 2 weeks, she just sat back and observed everyone. Which is mostly true. It's why people were kind of freaked out that she won because they had no idea what she would do, since she hadn't formed any solid alliances/bonds with anyone other than Austin. I still think her "sit and observe" actually was playing the game, since she was getting a feel for everyone's personalities and what their strategies might be. So, while she did technically start playing on Day 1, I think her point was that she didn't really get her feet wet until Week 3.

[TimWil]

So that first time we saw her on the feeds crying about missing Mel-was that more manipulation than genuine? She was making the other HGs think she was weak? I think it was more manipulation.

[Eolivet]

Wow. The Boss Man admits there were five or six casting mistakes this season! I bet he considers Steve, Austin and the twins to be four of them...

http://www.vulture.com/2015/09/leslie-moonves-on-20-years-at-cbs.html

 

Add Jeff and Jackie and there's your six. One evicted week three, the other laid low until she was suddenly sent packing. Not what you want or expect from stunt casting.

[Cosmocrush]

I'm pretty sure she said she didn't start playing until Week 3, when she won her first HOH. She said the first 2 weeks, she just sat back and observed everyone. 

Hmmmm, that makes more sense.  I must have heard her wrong.  Thanks.  

[mooses]

Wow. The Boss Man admits there were five or six casting mistakes this season! I bet he considers Steve, Austin and the twins to be four of them...

http://www.vulture.com/2015/09/leslie-moonves-on-20-years-at-cbs.html

I'd guess Jackie, Jeff, Audrey, maybe Austin for not being a villain. And Meg for being useless. It's funny he says that when most viewers agree that it's been the strongest season in years.

ETA: Although I didn't like the majority of the HGs, it's been a fun season. It makes me worried what kind of HGs and seasons we will get in the future now.

Edited September 8, 2015 by mooses

[retiredviewer]

I cn't believe that Jeff and Jackie were the best they could get from The Amazing Race. Maybe a couple in a real relationship or a parent child pairing would have been better.

[tinderbox]

I'd guess Jackie, Jeff, Audrey, maybe Austin for not being a villain. And Meg for being useless. It's funny he says that when most viewers agree that it's been the strongest season in years.

ETA: Although I didn't like the majority of the HGs, it's been a fun season. It makes me worried what kind of HGs and seasons we will get in the future now.

I agree with some of your choices but I also think Clay was a huge disappointment. He totally whimped out. For sure, Audrey and Meg fell into Moonves' group of losers.

I haven't heard a thunderous round of applause for this year's houseguests. Hmmm....

Edited September 8, 2015 by tinderbox

[Vicky]

Austin is such a killjoy.  They're taking pictures and he rolls his eyes and think it's lame.  He couldn't even be bothered to wake up for most of the pictures.  But, when it came to the tutu pictures he thinks he's so above it all.  What a loser.  

[mooses]

I haven't heard a thunderous round of applause for this year's houseguests. Hmmm....

I think the HGs are pretty meh and the ones that are left are particularly unpopular, but the season as a whole has been an entertaining one. The dynamics have been enough to keep me interested even though there's no Janelle or OTT popular HG.

ETA: An absence of an OTT popular HG made me happy because there hasn't been a Pandora or DPOV or some sort of AG's Choice.

Edited September 8, 2015 by mooses

[blixie]

Okay I missed the last three days of feeds, and I'm glad Julia has proved she can figure shit out, but I wish she hadn't figured it out so soon, is there any real talk about Liz staying? Please no, NOOOO. I'm getting paranoid, John has to know that's a terrible idea. And I hate that we've moved from doing what Steve and the HoH want to letting the nominees decide? WHAT IS WRONG with these people!

[blixie]

Ha, and just like that Van and John in the BY, Van brings up the vote, what Austin has argued if anything to John. Van is saying she doesn't care, but she has mentioned keeping Julia in almost every scenario for all three of Van/John/Steve as individuals and as F3. I can not fathom any situation in which you keep Liztin together. She also floated the idea that by taking out Liz, you make Austin less passionate about staying, more willing to go spend the last two weeks with Liz in Jury. 

 

John played the whole conversation with Van very well, he didn't commit to any scenario or choice, though he seems to be leaning towards keeping Julia IF the twins don't make up their mind, and because Steve seems not to really care either. But we have two full days so UGH. When it was Meg and Julia it seems like a toss up to me, but Liz/Julia NOT A TOSSUP.

 

Van did just bottom line it that everyone left is down to saving their own ass via comps.

Edited September 8, 2015 by blixie

[Cutty]

I think that's why I've enjoyed this season so much, because the dumb people were taken out week by week, and now we're left with 5 gamers and Julia (sorry Julia). I literally have no idea who is going to win, and it's likely going to all come down to comp wins. There's no one left in the house the doesn't have at least 2 different F2's

 

I don't agree that JMac and Liz are any kind of gamers. They're no better than a host of houseguests who've already been evicted. They just had a few things fall their way. (And in the case of John, HE WAS EVICTED.)

 

Austin, I'll give credit for the social game but he's not great strategically. I still recall watching the feeds the first week and laughing at how dumb him and Jase were. I don't buy that he knows what he's doing. Proof of that is he voted out James without even thinking and because Vanessa told him to. 

 

Basically the only two who deserve to win are Steve and Vanessa. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by Cutty

[Ceeg]

Considering Liz has won 3 HOH's, 1 veto, and 1 BotB single-handedly, and managed to maneuver herself into the top 6 with a twin and a showmance, I'd say she played a pretty good game. It might not be Vanessa-levels of strategic, but I don't think you have to be Vanessa-smart to be a BB gamer and play well. And the only reason Liz is even going home this week is because Austin hulked out and won BB Bowling. As for John, he was pretty useless up until the week of his eviction, but he's managed to acquit himself quite well, and is in a position to go to the F3, if not F2, by being smart enough to realize that he can't play a personal game (something Meg, James, and Jackie never figured out) and that teaming up with someone he loathed and who his sole mission was evicting for weeks was actually a legitimately great game move for him and saved his ass last week when everyone wanted him up and out.

I don't buy that he knows what he's doing. Proof of that is he voted out James without even thinking and because Vanessa told him to. 

Yeah, that was dumb, but I credit that almost entirely to Vanessa (and John, to a lesser extent, under Vanessa's coaching). I see it less as a huge blunder on Austin's part, and more of a great mist job from Vanessa.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Ceeg

[Cutty]

I've been binging BB Canada 3 since the feeds are pretty much unwatchable from here on out. It's amazing how much better the general level of gameplay is on Canada's version. They frame what they're thinking from a game perspective. They don't try to make up and stage fights for REASONS. It's been refreshing to watch.

[Cutty]

Considering Liz has won 3 HOH's, 1 veto, and 1 BotB single-handedly, and managed to maneuver herself into the top 6 with a twin and a showmance, I'd say she played a pretty good game. It might not be Vanessa-levels of strategic, but I don't think you have to be that smart to be a BB gamer and play well. And the only reason Liz is even going home this week is because Austin hulked out and won BB Bowling. As for John, he was pretty useless up until the week of his eviction, but he's managed to acquit himself quite well, and is in in a position to go to the F3, if not F2, by being smart enough to realize that he can't play a personal game (something Meg, James, and Jackie never figured out) and that teaming up with someone he loathed and who his sole mission was evicting for weeks was actually a legitimately great game move for him and saved his ass last week when everyone wanted him up and out.

 

Liz hasn't done anything without Austin and Vanessa's approval. And lets be honest, she made F6 because of Vanessa and the fact her alliance won so much (herself included). Comps wins are nice but I'm voting on strategy and social game. If you're a great player you shouldn't need to win comps. (I'm not a fan of Janelle either.) 

 

Also, if Clay/Becky wouldn't have sucked so bad at that BOTB, both Austin and Liz are likely pre-jury boots. You can say Liz won that by herself (which she did), but it was also a case of Clay and Becky being inept at it.

 

As far as JMac goes, I give him credit for burying the grudge he had against Vanessa but she's only aligned with him because she knows he will be easy to beat and he was all alone. The legions of Johnny Mac fans out there think it's good gameplay when in reality it's because he sucks so bad (which I guess is a strategy but good luck with that). She never would have teamed up with James because he was a bigger threat.

 

I'm not saying "The Other Side" wasn't clueless because they were (outside of Becky and Jackie) but I don't buy that Liz, Austin and Pawny Whack are any better.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Cutty

[Ceeg]

The thing is though, you can credit another person as a reason for every single person in the Final 6 right now. That's how this game works. It's almost impossible to get that far in the game without having a structure of support and without benefiting from other people's fuckups. Vanessa wouldn't be here right now if Becky hadn't put Shelli on the block. Austin wouldn't be here if Liz hadn't beasted that comp. Liz and Julia wouldn't be here if the 6S hadn't protected them. Steve wouldn't be here if Vanessa hadn't taken him in as her #2. John wouldn't be here if there was no Jury Buyback comp, and the other jurors didn't suck so badly at that comp.

 

I'm not even a Johnny Mac fan, really. I didn't like him at all before Austin's HOH. But now, I generally like everyone left in the house, though Vanessa is my favorite. But I don't think believing it was good gameplay from him to team up with Vanessa means I'm a biased stan with the inability to reason.

 

I don't think that comp wins are the only thing a juror should consider, but they're a huge part of the game. Without comp wins, the 6S/Austwins/Vanessa wouldn't be where they are now, despite good strategy.

[Eolivet]

. I don't think it's sexist to think that Vanessa is emotionally manipulative, hypocritical, and dishonest and I don't think it's sexist to react negatively to that behavior. I  think there are complex reasons why any individual or group behaves in certain ways and sexism and other forms of oppression can play into scenarios such as a woman using tears to manipulate others and not taking ownership of it on a number of different levels. To me, that doesn't mean that that behavior cannot be negatively viewed or commented on or that it's inherently sexist to do so.

 

It's a good distinction, though I still feel like it's one the general public (and thus, the show) will fail to make -- which is why I think it's so important. There's a huge difference between "I don't like Vanessa as a person, but I can't deny her game play" and "I don't like Vanessa as a person, and I don't respect her game play."

 

Actually, let's forget about Vanessa for a second. What if Liz wins this game or Julia? They've been edited to be equally as unlikable, despite their competition wins, with any good aspects of their games largely discounted. The show has set it up so if any woman wins, the audience will be disappointed and be able to write off the win because none of them are likable. The show took three women from a majority woman alliance formed in the earliest weeks of the game and reduced them to Whiny Bitch, Showmance and Irrelevant. At the same time, they've elevated two of the most basic dudes who were sitting on the sidelines into folk heroes: Johnny Mac! and oh, that wacky Steve. They've even let Austin reference his "Judas" persona.

 

(And I really don't need to hear the tired "underdog" scenario, because it's so funny that only applies to white dudes. Show me the edit for Derrick's stranglehold on the game last year and I'll show you how to edit a dominating alliance in a way that their performance gets the public on your side.)

 

And I do see some unintentional sexism in this, because a man on this show always has "game play" as this entity entirely separate from his personality, but a woman's likability and her game play go hand in hand. If a woman is unlikable, her game play (or even her win) is discounted. Only Maggie has had the fleeting "Terrible person, but a great player" distinction among women winners -- and the show has branded her irrelevant, likely because she wasn't liked. For women winners, if she's likable, she played a good game. If she's not, she had production help/was helped by an alliance/won by default/flew under the radar.

 

So, in a year where a woman majority alliance has won the majority of comps, controlled the majority of votes and employed the majority of strategy, the show still has the general public cheering for the dudes. This is what bothers me about how Vanessa has been edited, because it's also happening both Liz and Julia. They've all won comps, two have been HoH at least twice, and from what I've read, they've all been at least peripherally involved in strategy. Yet none of them will get respect if they win, because none of them are likable people or have likable strategies. And aren't dudes.

 

All I would hope is that Vanessa or Liz, or even Julia, do not have their personalities used as an excuse to discount their game play. In other words, it's 2015 and  I'm only asking that they all would hopefully be treated the same as Russell Hantz.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Eolivet

[MV007]

I'm not really sure how Audrey can be seen as a miss from a casting a perspective.  She was TV and Feeds gold.  Maybe she was a pain in the ass behind the scenes but she was must-watch while she was in the house in a way that we haven't seen in a couple of seasons.  I think CBS thinks they hit a home run with that casting job.  I'd guess they think Austin, the twins and Jace were misses.

[peachmangosteen]

I've been binging BB Canada 3 since the feeds are pretty much unwatchable from here on out. It's amazing how much better the general level of gameplay is on Canada's version. They frame what they're thinking from a game perspective. They don't try to make up and stage fights for REASONS. It's been refreshing to watch.

 

Have you seen BBCan2? That's the best season of BB in a very long time imo, especially if you like strong, capable female players.

 

There's a huge difference between "I don't like Vanessa as a person, but I can't deny her game play" and "I don't like Vanessa as a person, and I don't respect her game play."

 

Why? I don't respect her game. I didn't respect it when men did it either. It's just not the kind of game I can root for or enjoy or respect at all. And no, that doesn't make me sexist.

 

I think CBS thinks they hit a home run with that casting job.

 

If they do think that I agree with them. This is the best overall cast since like BB11 imo.

Edited September 8, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Ceeg]

LOL the Austwins want to confer with Johnny Mac about Vanessa's F2 deals with everyone. They want to blow up her game. It's not a bad play at all, but I think they fail to realize that no amount of strategizing matters anymore. It's all about comp wins at this point. 

 

I actually hope they confront Vanessa with this, and she rats Austin out for all the times he's thrown the twins under the bus to advance his own game.

Gross, now the Austwins are talking about how America probably hates Vanessa for playing them. Lawd.

[peachmangosteen]

Gross, now the Austwins are talking about how America probably hates Vanessa for playing them. Lawd.

 

They are honestly so sure they're America's faves. It's embarrassing really. They're in for such a rude awakening.

[mooses]

So, in a year where a woman majority alliance has won the majority of comps, controlled the majority of votes and employed the majority of strategy, the show still has the general public cheering for the dudes. This is what bothers me about how Vanessa has been edited, because it's also happening both Liz and Julia. They've all won comps, two have been HoH at least twice, and from what I've read, they've all been at least peripherally involved in strategy. Yet none of them will get respect if they win, because none of them are likable people or have likable strategies. And aren't dudes.

This is what bothers me the most. And I don't think it's really on viewers. If you don't like Vanessa, I totally understand. I didn't like Jackie just because I didn't like her. And Becky also. They weren't offensive - I just didn't like their personalities.

But it's unfortunate this season has boiled down to guys being the most popular HG, and Meg only because she was attached to a popular guy. And it's what Big Brother does all the time. I didn't like Jackie, but I liked how she didn't take crap and was the most outspoken and aware of ADC. Becky didn't attach herself to John, it was the other way around. Liz and Julia have made it far despite being blood related, and it's credited to Austin for the most part. Shelli and Vanessa were a bad ass alliance who ran Clay, Austin and the House for the first half of the season.

And the most popular HGs are John, who was voted out and has barely done anything all season except yell in the DR, and James, who is very likeable and a fun guy, but never saw how badly he was being played. And it's because the women cry too much or are too "fake" nice or they don't "own" their game.

Edited September 8, 2015 by mooses

[peachmangosteen]

I agree, mooses. I still maintain that if John was a woman he would have been ridiculed ten-fold online rather than be America's fave.

 

Austwins figured out Vanessa's entire game. Only took them 80 days!

[Ceeg]

Austwins figured out Vanessa's entire game. Only took them 80 days!

The funny thing about their outrage at her playing all sides of the house is they were in the exact same position two weeks ago.

 

I hope Vanessa wins HOH for the LOLs.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Ceeg

[peachmangosteen]

I hope anyone but Vanessa wins HOH for the lols. It ultimately won't matter because she's still no one's target. 

 

The Austwins seem to still want Steve gone first, then Vanessa. I feel like the likelihood of John sliding into F2 rises each day. Ugh.

[mooses]

I agree, mooses. I still maintain that if John was a woman he would have been ridiculed ten-fold online rather than be America's fave.

Austwins figured out Vanessa's entire game. Only took them 80 days!

I just glanced at some updates, and it seems they're planning on blowing things up to John to get Vanessa out of Final 3. Is it because they don't realize him and Vanessa are kinda sorta close now? Because John wants her in Final 3. With him.

The funny thing about their outrage at her playing all sides of the house is they were in the exact same position two weeks ago.

Ha! I know. And I swear I read a quote from Austin yesterday where he said he wouldn't blame her for playing all sides because why wouldn't she. But they're finally going to realize they should have kept James.

Edited September 8, 2015 by mooses

[Ceeg]

I just glanced at some updates, and it seems they're planning on blowing things up to John to get Vanessa out of Final 3. Is it because they don't realize him and Vanessa are kinda sorta close now? Because John wants her in Final 3. With him.

They don't like that Vanessa has set herself to be F3 with both sides of the house. I'm not really sure what all the outrage is about, but I guess they're just mad that she dared lie to them.

 

Meanwhile, Vanessa is asking Steve whether she should try to win F4 HOH. I think my instinct was right that she wants to throw F5 HOH, which is stupid, but whatever.

[AndreaK1041]

Just verifying what I am seeing on Twitter... Julia now wants to go, Austin & Liz are on board, and if Vanessa doesn't vote that way, they are going after her next week?  Oh no.

[TheRealT]

It's a good distinction, though I still feel like it's one the general public (and thus, the show) will fail to make -- which is why I think it's so important. There's a huge difference between "I don't like Vanessa as a person, but I can't deny her game play" and "I don't like Vanessa as a person, and I don't respect her game play."

 

Actually, let's forget about Vanessa for a second. What if Liz wins this game or Julia? They've been edited to be equally as unlikable, despite their competition wins, with any good aspects of their games largely discounted. The show has set it up so if any woman wins, the audience will be disappointed and be able to write off the win because none of them are likable. The show took three women from a majority woman alliance formed in the earliest weeks of the game and reduced them to Whiny Bitch, Showmance and Irrelevant. At the same time, they've elevated two of the most basic dudes who were sitting on the sidelines into folk heroes: Johnny Mac! and oh, that wacky Steve. They've even let Austin reference his "Judas" persona.

 

(And I really don't need to hear the tired "underdog" scenario, because it's so funny that only applies to white dudes. Show me the edit for Derrick's stranglehold on the game last year and I'll show you how to edit a dominating alliance in a way that their performance gets the public on your side.)

 

And I do see some unintentional sexism in this, because a man on this show always has "game play" as this entity entirely separate from his personality, but a woman's likability and her game play go hand in hand. If a woman is unlikable, her game play (or even her win) is discounted. Only Maggie has had the fleeting "Terrible person, but a great player" distinction among women winners -- and the show has branded her irrelevant, likely because she wasn't liked. For women winners, if she's likable, she played a good game. If she's not, she had production help/was helped by an alliance/won by default/flew under the radar.

 

So, in a year where a woman majority alliance has won the majority of comps, controlled the majority of votes and employed the majority of strategy, the show still has the general public cheering for the dudes. This is what bothers me about how Vanessa has been edited, because it's also happening both Liz and Julia. They've all won comps, two have been HoH at least twice, and from what I've read, they've all been at least peripherally involved in strategy. Yet none of them will get respect if they win, because none of them are likable people or have likable strategies. And aren't dudes.

 

All I would hope is that Vanessa or Liz, or even Julia, do not have their personalities used as an excuse to discount their game play. In other words, it's 2015 and  I'm only asking that they all would hopefully be treated the same as Russell Hantz.

Honestly, I've paid minimal attention to the TV show this year and have even missed an episode or 3, so I don't have a strong opinion on how the show has portrayed Vanessa and the other female HGs. With that said, I think the show is totally and disgustingly sexist in general and AG seems to pick one or more male HGs whom she obviously favors each year. As I may have mentioned once or twice, I don't like Vanessa. Nevertheless, I absolutely acknowledge her as the strongest player this season without question based on having her head in the game, thinking through strategy, influencing others, setting herself up with strategic alliances, winning comps, etc., etc. She's not a "perfect" BB player (no one is), but she's very good at the things she's good at, very thoughtful, and, overall, definitely a top tier player. I just don't like her personality and I find her gameplay annoying (though effective).

 

With that being said, I would totally understand if people didn't vote for her in F2 because her game has really sucked in terms of building good affective relationships, which is a huge part of the game. I understand that some people think that shouldn't be as important as strategy or comps, but, to me, the beauty of this type of game is that all of those elements play into playing a "good" game. In the end, the criteria upon which the winner is chosen are totally subjective. Each juror gets to decide what constitutes a "good" game, so anyone who makes it to the finals could win in theory. I have my own opinions, but, personally, I reject the notion that jurors are "stupid" or "sore losers" or "bitter" or whatever if they don't vote a certain way. It completely makes sense to me to vote for the person you like best and it completely makes sense to me to vote for the person you think made the most strategic moves or whatever. I can even understand deciding totally arbitrarily based on a coin toss or something because it's just a dumb game show at the end of the day. Who cares?

 

This is what bothers me the most. And I don't think it's really on viewers. If you don't like Vanessa, I totally understand. I didn't like Jackie just because I didn't like her. And Becky also. They weren't offensive - I just didn't like their personalities.

But it's unfortunate this season has boiled down to guys being the most popular HG, and Meg only because she was attached to a popular guy. And it's what Big Brother does all the time. I didn't like Jackie, but I liked how she didn't take crap and was the most outspoken and aware of ADC. Becky didn't attach herself to John, it was the other way around. Liz and Julia have made it far despite being blood related, and it's credited to Austin for the most part. Shelli and Vanessa were a bad ass alliance who ran Clay, Austin and the House for the first half of the season.

And the most popular HGs are John, who was voted out and has barely done anything all season except yell in the DR, and James, who is very likeable and a fun guy, but never saw how badly he was being played. And it's because the women cry too much or are too "fake" nice or they don't "own" their game.

ITA except for the part about it being because "the women" (really, Vanessa) cry too much or don't own their game. I think the show is edited in a very sexist manner because AG/TPTB/TV/society are very sexist. I don't think they are being sexist this year as a reaction to Vanessa/the other women in particular. I do think that Vanessa is challenging to them as a "character" and that that has contributed to the portrayal they've given her. Janelle (for example) was a hypersexualized "blonde bombshell" who was closely tied to strong male characters, so that fit into sexist notions of an acceptable "strong female player." Vanessa doesn't fit any of the "acceptable" molds for strong female "characters" and she is generally kind of an odd duck and (to many) annoying and abrasive.

[mooses]

They don't like that Vanessa has set herself to be F3 with both sides of the house. I'm not really sure what all the outrage is about, but I guess they're just mad that she dared lie to them.

Meanwhile, Vanessa is asking Steve whether she should try to win F4 HOH. I think my instinct was right that she wants to throw F5 HOH, which is stupid, but whatever.

But what us John going to do? They're hoping he'll be so outraged he'll target her before Austin?

The way these guys keep secrets, she'll probably get win of the Austwins' doubts and go for the next HOH.

[peachmangosteen]

I think my instinct was right that she wants to throw F5 HOH, which is stupid, but whatever.

 

Oh, she definitely wants to throw it. (Although she'll lie to us in DR about it after the fact.) However, if she catches wind of this thing with Austwins and/or if they actually tell her to vote Julia out instead, then she'll probably end up going for it. She'll have to.

 

 

Just verifying what I am seeing on Twitter... Julia now wants to go, Austin & Liz are on board, and if Vanessa doesn't vote that way, they are going after her next week?  Oh no.

 

Yep. I can't wait until they go to Vanessa with this. Vanessa's meltdown should be epic!

[Ceeg]

But what us John going to do? They're hoping he'll be so outraged he'll target her before Austin?

Basically. They think if John knows she's playing all sides he'll be pissed. But they don't know how far back her alliance with John goes. That it even precedes his eviction. And that Steve was 100% targeting Austin this week, so it seems unlikely that they'll be able to completely move the target from Austin's back to Vanessa's. Who knows, though. 

[Waldo13]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the diary room puts ideas into the hamsters' head. I'm pretty sure the diary rooms are scripted, for entertainment value, but I'm not sure how much these recruits can figure things out on their own. Of the current HG, I think that only Vanessa is intuitive enough not to need hel because she can focus on everything that is said to her.

[peachmangosteen]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the diary room puts ideas into the hamsters' head.

 

Oh, there's no doubt they do. The HGs talk about it all the time!

[Cutty]

I love the Austwins butthurt that Vanessa is playing all sides, as if they haven't been doing the same thing the entire game. 

[kellog010]

The Austwins are being foolish. Even if they "expose" Vanessa, why would anyone take her out before taking out the Showmance (humoring for a second that Liz stays). Even if it's Austin/Julia, Austin would never nominate a twin and he's most likely to win so he'd still be a target. It doesn't make sense that anyone would take a out a solo player over a solid pair especially so close to the end.

 

I don't know why they feel so entitled that anyone should want to have Austwins in the game at the end so they are outnumbered and lose.

 

ETA: I hate that the megaphone guy happened. Will it affect John's actions when Austwins tell him Vanessa has deals with everyone?

Edited September 8, 2015 by kellog010

[peachmangosteen]

In defense of Liz/Julia, they really weren't. They basically never even tried to make other allies outside of Sixth Sense/Scamper Squad. Austin did, but I'm fairly sure he isn't actually butthurt about Vanessa. He needs to get rid of her eventually though so hey maybe this can be the 'reason.'

Edited September 8, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Ceeg]

Yeah Austin is scared to death of a F2 with Vanessa IMO and this is his only play to get rid of her before the end happens. Austin will beat anyone else without question.

[peachmangosteen]

Yeah Austin is scared to death of a F2 with Vanessa IMO and this is his only play to get rid of her before the end happens. Austin will beat anyone else without question.

 

Exactly. 

 

Great, the likely winner is either Austin or Vanessa. Dammit! Although I'm not gonna be happy with any winner with those left (outside of Liz/Julia which is impossible at this point), so I guess it doesn't really matter to me lol.

[blixie]

So apparently the twins STILL don't know Vanessa is working with both John and Steve and that all three of them know about each other (Steve doesn't explicitly know about Van/John, but he KNOWS). 

I think what's hilarious about them being so mad at Vanessa for playing both sides is yes they tried the same shit, and it exposed their game, and Vanessa didn't even get mad at them, she got mad at STEVE, but in their minds the 'air was cleared' so she should have just confessed all her deals at the same time. Like they had confessed to her out of genuine remorse and ethics, and not because idiot Austin won HoH exposing every one of their lies.

 

I think this also shows that while Austwins played a good game the NEVER once thought past F5, they really thought (and to be fair these idiots let them get too far in the game where it wasn't a baseless assumption) they'd get to F5 with three of them all there, and the twins assumed Austin would bow out allowing them to have F2 all to themselves. 

Austin currently telling Van the twins wanting Liz to stay, Austin think's he's working her. I think Austin is very wrong. Heh. Vanessa is suspicious as fuck right now, it may be long night of digging up the bones. Yup she caught him out, he suggested going to Johnny Mac (which is the twins plan) to make a F2 deal with him, and Van was like WHY would you do that , what is the benefit?! I know people hate her "interrogating" but I love it makes me laugh and they consistently try to out think her and fail.

Edited September 8, 2015 by blixie

[pennben]

Vanessa needs to remind (explain to) the twins that no woman has ever won against a man in the final so it wouldn't be the best thing to get her out if they want shot to win (also toss in nod to how many jurors already hate her).

Edited September 9, 2015 by pennben

[Vicky]

I am developing a stronger and stronger dislike of Austin.  I'm watching the feeds from Tuesday June 30 at 12:02.  Jace is up on the block.

At the time, Jace was flirting with Liz and she kinda liked him back.  But, Austin doesn't like it.  He sees Jace and Liz go into the old hammock room to talk about getting votes to stay.  Austin watches that and mumbles under his breath "He's gotta go."

Ick.  

Y'all probably noticed that long ago, didn't you?  

 

Add that to his lousy attitude for picture taking today and I'm feeling combustible!!! :)

I didn't like him anyway - but now I'm REALLY REALLY not liking him.  

[tinderbox]

I am developing a stronger and stronger dislike of Austin.  I'm watching the feeds from Tuesday June 30 at 12:02.  Jace is up on the block.

At the time, Jace was flirting with Liz and she kinda liked him back.  But, Austin doesn't like it.  He sees Jace and Liz go into the old hammock room to talk about getting votes to stay.  Austin watches that and mumbles under his breath "He's gotta go."

Ick.  

Y'all probably noticed that long ago, didn't you?  

 

Add that to his lousy attitude for picture taking today and I'm feeling combustible!!! :)

I didn't like him anyway - but now I'm REALLY REALLY not liking him.

There's something else, along these lines, you may not have noticed. Austin was extremely jealous of Liz's relationship with Jeff, too. I don't think there was anything going on between Liz/Jeff other than flirting but Austin sure as hell wanted Jeff gone because of it. He pushed for Jeff's ouster. (Wait till he finds out Liz was that "secret" vote for Jeff to stay!. heh)