Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[Camera One]

I wonder what it really means if Emma manages to reunite Excalibur and "snuff out" the Light. Does this mean the Darkness takes over completely, and Emma is no longer Emma? Why would Emma be okay with that? Will she still be controlled by the reunited Excalibur? Or will she be free from its control?

 

Exactly.  Rumple didn't want to snuff out all his darkness because he still wanted to love Bae.  Emma has Henry, so why would she want to remove her feelings for him.  As usual, the writers didn't think this through at all.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I think the Percival encounter might have been a sham to draw out Regina. The story he gives can't possibly be about himself. After Arthur's lack of reaction over his death, I doubt he's even dead. No one even batted an eye over Charming killing him. It was also odd timing for it to happen at the special ball that Arthur arranged. There wasn't much reaction to finding out Regina was the Evil Queen after Percival's death either.

Edited October 9, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Hales]

Is it just me or does Guinevere seem really shady? I definitely think she has more to do with all of this then just being Arthur's wife. When they reunited in Storybrooke, the first thing she said was "Where is Excalibur?" One would think she'd be more concerned considering they were just magically transported to another realm. I also think that there is something off with Emma (besides being the dark one).

[KAOS Agent]

 

I think the Percival encounter might have been a sham to draw out Regina. The story he gives can't possibly be about himself.

 

The question is who enchanted the sword to kill Regina. If it was Percival, I don't think he's dead. If it was someone else, that's who you need to be looking at. There was too much magic and planning involved in that whole thing for it to just end that easily.

[Camera One]

Another two-hour expansion of an episode on Nov 15... why am I feeling a bit of trepidation...

[YaddaYadda]

The question is who enchanted the sword to kill Regina. If it was Percival, I don't think he's dead. If it was someone else, that's who you need to be looking at. There was too much magic and planning involved in that whole thing for it to just end that easily.

 

Percival was hanging out in Merlin's tower. Maybe Merlin prepped all this stuff and left a note and was like "yo, use this shit when the weirdos show up."

 

If Percival had a magical necklace, a magical fire, an enchanted sword, then chances are, he came protected. Everyone from Storybrooke reacts, everyone from Camelot doesn't. And for Arthur to just stand there and be like "oh, yeah, that? No biggie!" The eff guy! This man was with you when you pulled your sword out of the stone. That means he wasn't just a friend, he was a really close friend. And he kept his secret for who knows how long.

 

So no, I don't think Percival is dead, dead. And I don't think Percival's story is completely true and that he was the boy. It makes zero sense with the timeline we were presented with. 

 

Or the show needs to hire someone who will keep up with the timelines they create, in which case, Adam and Eddy, please PM me, we'll talk!

 

I am looking forward to the explanation for why Camelot wasn't cursed. I don't want the Cora Dome explanation either.

[Camera One]

Maybe Merlin impersonated Percival, then this means once again, he pulled the puppet strings to ensure Emma turns Dark, knowing that Regina would ask Emma to heal Robin.  

[Rumsy4]

I am looking forward to the explanation for why Camelot wasn't cursed. I don't want the Cora Dome explanation either.

 

You can have one or the other, but not both! ;-)

[Mari]

Questions I was left with

 

• Why doesn't Arthur want them to talk to Merlin?
• What "light" is Emma supposed to snuff out?   
• As glaringly, obviously hypocritical as Regina's been so far this season--and it's getting worse episode by episode--is there any possibility they're actually noticing it and it's part of their plan?  Or are they that Regina Blind?

Edited October 12, 2015 by Mari

[YaddaYadda]

Is Emma making dreamcatchers or something?

[Rumsy4]

• What "light" is Emma supposed to snuff out?   

 

Same thing as the Sorcerer's Hat I guess. The Darkness wants to be free of all control (Dagger) and responsibility (ties) so it can darken the world?

[scenicbyway]

 

Questions I was left with

 

• Why doesn't Arthur want them to talk to Merlin?
• What "light" is Emma supposed to snuff out?   
• As glaringly, obviously hypocritical as Regina's been so far this season--and it's getting worse episode by episode--is there any possibility they're actually noticing it and it's part of their plan?  Or are they that Regina Blind?

 

I'm guessing that Merlin knows Arthur's true character and that could mean Arthur would lose Camelot?  Are they really even following Merlin's prophecies or is Arthur making them up as they go along?

The light I think is goodness?  That way "darkness" will rule everything, which is of course dumb.  The whole point of Emma becoming the Dark One was to stop the darkness from taking everything over, so why does she want to free it now???

Is Regina getting any more hypocritical than usual?  I think the scene with Zelena was meant to show that Regina is still Regina but Hook's scene with Emma contrasted that when he owned that he was a villain to Rumple in their first meeting. 

[ParadoxLost]

InsertWordHere, on 11 Oct 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

According to wikipedia, the Siege Perilous is a part of the legend, but it was an empty seat reserved for the knight who would one day find the Holy Grail. This is the first I've heard of it as well

 

So this was linked in the episode thread.  Apparently sitting in the tall seat can be fatal if you didn't find the grail.  So Lancelot was dead/resurrected.  Now Charming sat in it.   I wonder if Emma becomes the Dark One saving Charming's life.  That seems the most likely course given they decided to focus this episode on Charming's reaction to Emma being the Dark One rather than Snow's.

[Rumsy4]

I wonder how Emma plans to turn Rumple into a hero. Kidnap Belle and impell him to save her? That would be a parallel to him refusing to fight for Milah. If they artificially turn Rumple into a hero at the end of this arc, his redemption will officially be worse than Regina's!

[KingOfHearts]

 

What "light" is Emma supposed to snuff out?

Not!Rumple has used vague wording for that. My guess is that the Dark One has its own agenda that has absolutely nothing to do with Emma or her power. Like what Rumsy4 said, it's probably some way to release the darkness from the Dagger. Emma is totally being manipulated here.

 

 

I wonder how Emma plans to turn Rumple into a hero. Kidnap Belle and impell him to save her? That would be a parallel to him refusing to fight for Milah. If they artificially turn Rumple into a hero at the end of this arc, his redemption will officially be worse than Regina's!

Either Emma's plans are clever or largely manufactured. Is she going to manipulate Rumple into legitimately becoming a hero, or is she just going to shove him into "heroic acts" she sets up? It's basically the opposite of what Rumple needed from Regina... and we all know how long that took to pull off. It took years for Regina to become the monster he wanted. Rumple's villain-to-hero conversion would have to be almost as fast as Our Lady of Perpetual Woe's.

 

 

I think it's interesting that we really haven't seen Emma yet do anything particularly dark as the dark one.  The preview scene they had at San Diego Comic Con turned out to not be apart of the show (the writers have said).

I'm wondering if we'll see some Sparkly Emma toward the end of the Camelot arc. If Storybrooke is cursed, that means Emma's appearance had to be modified like everyone else who had magical skin conditions.

Edited October 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[ParadoxLost]

I wonder how Emma plans to turn Rumple into a hero. Kidnap Belle and impell him to save her? That would be a parallel to him refusing to fight for Milah. If they artificially turn Rumple into a hero at the end of this arc, his redemption will officially be worse than Regina's!

 

I see no other way this can end.  Rumpel will heroically take back the mantel of the Dark One to save Emma and the town as a bookend.

 

Its actually not surprising they are making him a hero.  They have to take his heart from neutral to good so they buy time for the dark marks to make it fully black again and therefore not a problem.

[scenicbyway]

I think it's interesting that we really haven't seen Emma yet do anything particularly dark as the dark one.  The preview scene they had at San Diego Comic Con turned out to not be apart of the show (the writers have said).  So the darkest thing she's done is refuse to be forthcoming with everyone, but perhaps even she doesn't have memories from Camelot?  Nothing so far suggests that she does, it would be logical for her to assume that she's dark because they failed. 

 

So far we've only seen her use her magic for good in Camelot and she's only stolen Happy ax and kidnapped Rumple (which doesn't even seem that bad).  She needed the sword from Hook but she could've just magicked in a taken it without him knowing.  It's clear she just wanted to spend time with him.

[KingOfHearts]

Maybe Emma will grow a mustache and tie Belle to the train tracks. Rumple can ride in as Dudley DoRight. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

She needed the sword from Hook but she could've just magicked in a taken it without him knowing.

Did she know specifically that it was the sword she needed, or was she nudging the conversation in a direction that would lead to him revealing something she could use? She would have known there was likely something on the ship, just because Hook is the only person who knew Rumple before he was the Dark One, but she might not have known a specific object that would work until Hook talked in detail about that incident and mentioned the sword.

 

I guess it depends on whether Head Rumple has access to all Rumple's memories, including pre-Dark One.

[snarkybelle]

When Dark Emma whispered in Happy's ear, "Oh Happy, there's something I learned as the Dark One. When your name is on something. Hold on to it."

 

Emma will probably regret giving the dagger to Regina.  Or it will fall into the hands of someone that will mess Emma up.  Crap!

[Camera One]

They've burned through most of the princesses ones, except for Jasmine although Jafar was in Wonderland. They could start making human versions of the Lion King, Winnie the Pooh and the like I suppose.

 

Good thinking.  Winnie the Pooh's sacred honey jar would probably contain the Darkness

[KingOfHearts]

 

hey could start making human versions of the Lion King

I'd like to see a human version of Scar, with the trademark scar on his face of course. He could go all Shakespeare seeing as Lion King is based on Hamlet. That would be a neat villain. (Oh crap, I just described Chang from Star Trek VI.)

Edited October 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[OnceUponAJen]

I wonder how Emma plans to turn Rumple into a hero. Kidnap Belle and impell him to save her? That would be a parallel to him refusing to fight for Milah. If they artificially turn Rumple into a hero at the end of this arc, his redemption will officially be worse than Regina's!

I wonder how hard of a time Emma is going to have getting Rumple to act heroically. He was exhibiting some of his pre-Dark One personality when he woke and saw Emma there. I could feel the fear rolling off of him.

[YaddaYadda]

But you can't just turn someone into a hero just like that. I think the episode was filled just with that kind of stuff. Arthur (sadly) is no hero, even though he seems to be trying to save his kingdom, but he sounded more like a cult leader than a king. His squire was willing to die for him and Camelot. Building a kingdom on the bones of people who were loyal to him doesn't make him a hero. He may have been pre-destined for the sword and to be king, but he isn't anymore. I'd wager he'd go the way of Sir Kay if he were to try and get Excalibur now.

 

I don't know how successful Emma will be at turning Rumple into a hero. I think she'll fail at it.

 

Let's not forget that there's a price she will have to pay if/when she manages to pull the sword out of the stone.

[Camera One]

Maybe Emma's "plan" to turn Rumple into a hero will go the same way of Rumple's "plan" to use Regina to make Emma dark in 4B.  Meaning it will be forgotten after this episode. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

He may have been pre-destined for the sword and to be king, but he isn't anymore. I'd wager he'd go the way of Sir Kay if he were to try and get Excalibur now.

Then... plot twist - he's not. For years he's been giving out "Merlin's prophecies", when in reality he made them up. Either Merlin isn't even in the tree or communicating with him would reveal this. Thus, Arthur hid the mushroom. As for how he was able to pull out Excalibur, it might have been a symbol of something completely different from becoming king. He wanted to be king of Camelot so he lied to everyone saying the sword was a sign he should be. So yeah, my theory is that he's a throne usurper. 

 

but he sounded more like a cult leader than a king

The way he and his subjects religiously heed to Merlin's prophecies like they were gospel truth makes that even more obvious.

Edited October 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

He wanted to be king of Camelot so he lied to everyone saying the sword was a sign he should be.

 

And the real Arthur is... Henry.

[Rumsy4]

And the real Arthur is... Henry.

Duh... it's Regina!

[Shanna Marie]

For years he's been giving out "Merlin's prophecies", when in reality he made them up.

Though he did know the Storybrooke gang would be arriving, to the point a ball was already prepared (then again, Violet said they did this all the time, so I guess they could have already had their nightly ball planned and they just declared it a Savior Ball), and he knew the Savior would be among them, so someone has made some pretty accurate prophecies. Though the best lies are based on truths, so there could have been real prophecies woven in, and he could have added a lot of his own bits and pieces, so the real prophecies added credibility to the made-up ones.

[snarkybelle]

So I can see why Lancelot looks so young because he was stuck in Safehaven under Cora's spell for 28 years but how has Arthur not aged?  He said he had been waiting for the Savior to arrive for 10 years so has Camelot been under a spell for 10 years which didn't age them?  Violet mentioned they had a ball every night so there might have been some Groundhog Day curse on Camelot.  That would be cool.  Then of course Percival aged pretty quickly since the Evil Queen burned down his village as a boy.  Just trying to figure out timelines.  It's confusing.  

[Rumsy4]

Is Lancelot really Lancelot, or yet another glamored person? When he asked Snow to "trust her eyes", it seemed like a big red flag. The way he suddenly appeared in the Castle was pretty shady too. What if he is someone Arthur has set up just the way he did with Grif in Storybrooke? Arthur probably suspects the group of being duplicitous after the whole Percival/EQ incident, and wants to find out more. Snow has already blabbed to "Lance" about her daughter being the Dark One. Once Arthur has proof, then "bam", the deception is revealed.

From the preview, it seems clear that Snow tells Lance about the Dark One Dagger as well. I don't see filming spoilers of Lancelot in Storybrooke. Unless they're going to kill him off again (for real this time), it's more likely he is a fake.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

I'm starting to think Arthur's the one who really cast the curse that wiped the memories because his spell got broken and he needed to do a reboot. He wants to create a new Camelot in Storybooke because the illusion of the "perfect" Camelot was shattered, and he doesn't want to go back because people will realize it was all a lie.

[tennisgurl]

Its starting to look like maybe Snowing didn't actually let Emma down on purpose, they were actually brainwashed. Whoops. Awkward....

[Shanna Marie]

Its starting to look like maybe Snowing didn't actually let Emma down on purpose, they were actually brainwashed.

And maybe some of the reason she's going so hard on playing the Dark Swan villain role is that they're still brainwashed and she can't trust them. She has to keep them at a distance.

 

Gwen is still brainwashed, so I'm assuming the brainwashing holds, and that mixed with the wiped memories means Emma can't rely on them.

[shoregirl]

I wonder how much Hook trusts anyone else besides Emma. If brainwashed Snowing give Arthur the dagger ,and I think they will, is Hook going to be upset or if they say Arthur can help will he support it. I kind of get if Regina does because I think they are at a place where she trusts Snowing but will Hook? Does Hook have anything to do with whatever happens to Emma in Camelot because I will be suprised if he does.

[Shanna Marie]

Does Hook have anything to do with whatever happens to Emma in Camelot because I will be suprised if he does.

I don't think it's random that both Hook and Henry were out of the way while the brainwashing was going on. Do we really think Hook couldn't have found the stables on his own? But by throwing in that Henry took them there, and then he went off with Violet while Hook and Emma went off to the field of flowers, that got them all out of the way, so they'll be in the group that didn't drink the Kool-Ade.

 

Now, where will Regina, Robin, Belle, Granny, and the Dwarfs stand? Will they get a dose of magic dust, just to tidy up any loose ends in case Snow and David told them their suspicions?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Is Lancelot really Lancelot, or yet another glamored person?

In tonight's episode, when Snow was hesitant to hand him the dagger, he seemed a little shady. He was adamant about doing himself and he asked her if she trusted him. Before it could get any more awkward, Arthur stormed in. It's more than likely really Lancelot because he knew Guinevere, but still that small moment stood out to me.

[Camera One]

He did seem shady for a moment, but maybe that was just so the audience would be all quizzical about who was good and who was bad in that moment, until the confirmation that Arthur was evil.  They never bothered to have Lancelot explain what happened with Cora, for the same reason... to keep the audience guessing.  That's why it's so hard to analyze this show sometimes.  You don't know what is there just to play with the viewers so their "twist" will work.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Camera One

[Souris]

I just had a thought. What if Hook’s heart was crushed in Camelot -- and Emma used that Avalon powder to make it appear unbroken. Or he actually died back in Camelot in, and this is all about DarkSwan trying to reclaim their future he talked about, including the white picket fence. So the Killian we see in SB is all a product of the Avalon dust. There's been all kinds of references to crushing his heart and the pain of a broken heart. 

 

Yeah, I’ll just be over here sobbing.

I’m gonna need that to be fixed somehow before the hiatus, because I don’t want to live in a world/fandom where Hook is dead for 3+ months until 5B.

[Camera One]

Coming up on the CW's Once Upon a Teenage Angst...

 

VIOLET: Don't speak of my King in such a disrespectful fashion.

HENRY: Your King brainwashed my grandparents!

VIOLET: That's it!  We're DONE!

Edited October 19, 2015 by Camera One

[RadioGirl27]

I just had a thought. What if Hook’s heart was crushed in Camelot -- and Emma used that Avalon powder to make it appear unbroken. Or he actually died back in Camelot in, and this is all about DarkSwan trying to reclaim their future he talked about, including the white picket fence. So the Killian we see in SB is all a product of the Avalon dust. There's been all kinds of references to crushing his heart and the pain of a broken heart. 

Yeah, I’ll just be over here sobbing.

I’m gonna need that to be fixed somehow before the hiatus, because I don’t want to live in a world/fandom where Hook is dead for 3+ months until 5B.

I don't know about Hook (but I doubt it, that would mean he is dead and no way they are killing him for real) but I'm pretty sure Violet is not a real person.

A lot of people think that either Hook or Emma are going to die in the mid-season finale, but I don't think A&E are going to do something so extreme. The new writer has said that in that episode there is a lot of pay-off for the fans and some crying of the good kind. The death (real or not) of one of the main characters goes against both things.

[scenicbyway]

I think Lancelot dies for the curse to Storybrooke to work.  I think he TLK's Guinevere and in order to stop Arthur from joining the sword and dagger together she decides to destroy Camelot with the curse. Which makes me wonder if Guin has her memory in Storybrooke and if she's just playing along for the moment.

[tri4335]

I don't know about Hook (but I doubt it, that would mean he is dead and no way they are killing him for real) but I'm pretty sure Violet is not a real person.

 

I agree - I think there is something up with Violet. I think they may parallel Regina first love with Henry but with a surprise twist!  Violet, though not a stable boy, takes care of her own horse and though nobility maybe considered an innappropriate love interest for Henry because she lives in Camelot and he lives in SB.  She seems to be paralleling Daniel as someone that has different life experiences than Henry but understands him and they connect. I think she will further parallel Daniel and have her heart crushed....by Emma.  But the twist is that she is really not a teenage girl but some magical being who is trying to push Emma into being the Dark One.  However, it will be awhile until everyone knows that Violet was not who she appeared to be.  They need Emma to do something horrible and crushing Violet's heart would be it. However, I not sure that they really want lasting ramifications of her doing evil to innocents.

[Rumsy4]

So magic sand can not only build castles, but can also conjure up people? I don't know if the illusion goes that far. I hope Emma won't be crushing Violet's heart, because that would be something really hard for her to come back from, even if she turns out to be a phantom/someone in disguise. 

[Camera One]

So I'm wondering if at the end of the arc, Merlin will declare that it is NOT possible to snuff out the Darkness completely.  Because the Darkness must balance the Light, one can't exist without the other, everyone has a bit of dark and a bit of light in them, every sunset has its spark, every dead battery has some residual fuel, every bag of peanuts has a few rotten ones, every fresh Snow drift is tainted, blah blah blah blah blah blah.  

Edited October 25, 2015 by Camera One

[Camera One]

Or he might be worried that Merlin wouldn't approve of the way he went about things and needs to get him out of the way before he blabs to everyone else that Arthur screwed up. Though in that case, why not leave him in the tree? Unless, I suppose, he's worried that treed Merlin could talk to someone else the way he talked to him.

 

Merlin can probably talk to his precious Author through Magic Pen, but first Henry must go on a quest to find 0.7mm lead.

[Camera One]

Last year, for Episode 5, we got "Breaking Glass"?  Is everyone else on the edge of their seats in anticipation for tonight?  

[Mari]

Last year, for Episode 5, we got "Breaking Glass"?  Is everyone else on the edge of their seats in anticipation for tonight?  

Yes.  

 

After all, it's time to pair Emma and Regina again, and we know who the show usually approves of in that situation.

 

Plus, I've enjoyed too much of season 5 so far.  It's time for the show to kick me in the teeth again.

[Curio]

I don't think anything can top the suckitude that is "Breaking Glass." However, Season 5A has been following Season 4A's formula pretty closely. The premiere episode introduced a bunch of new characters we've never seen before, we got the obligatory (but somewhat useless) Charming flashback to prove to his fans that he's still technically a main character, and the fourth episode featured a romantic date with Captain Swan. So yes, there is a good chance I might not like tonight's episode if it keeps following suit.

[YaddaYadda]

A&E are the ones who wrote 5x05, so we shall see. I'm assuming it's pivotal in some way if they wrote it since they usually write episodes 1, 11, 12, and part of the finale.