Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[FurryFury]

Rumpel doesn't have any intention of trying to get Author to write anyone's happy ending.  This whole thing is about his failing heart

 

Guys, I still haven't seen that episode and have no intention to. Could someone tell me about this failing heart thing? You can do so in PM or in another thread or give a link to a youtube clip, I just haven't heard about this yet and am a bit afraid to miss something important.

 

Cruella was treated poorly as a child

 

Who on this show hasn't?

Edited April 19, 2015 by FurryFury

[Camera One]

Guys, I still haven't seen that episode and have no intention to. Could someone tell me about this failing heart thing? You can do so in PM or in another thread or give a link to a youtube clip, I just haven't heard about this yet and am a bit afraid to miss something important.

 

I'll reply in episode thread.

[Bluerang1]

Things kept coming to me regarding Cruella as I was replying to a thread a different site:

 

Maybe the car can travel through realms? But seriously though I thougt the main question was how it got to the Enchanted Forrest (where it probably wouldn't work anyway) but really how did it even get to our world?

Or also maybe Rumple brought her to the Enchanted Forest through an invitation, so Cruella was only a villain in the 1920s England World and not the EF. That's then how the 101 Dalmations story would play out. Then she was probably stuck in the EF afterwards arriving at Maleficent's.

[OnceUponAJen]

I see Cruella as a black widow, or a gangster. I'm interested to see what they do with her.

I was actually surprised. Not far off the mark, really. I'm glad Cruella was really as crazy as she seemed to be, and wasn't just covering up some deep tragedy wrought upon her by a hero.

[Camera One]

So last week was basically about Isaac and Cruella, the week before was about Robin and Zelena, and looking at this week's episode title... Lily?   I'm a little afraid we'll get an entire flashback centric about Lily's life in the Real World even though we didn't get one for Emma until Season 4.  Hopefully, the flashback will be about something else, or we won't get a flashback.  My biggest dread would be if we see that Lily's foster family was abusive, and Teenage Emma abandoning Lily resulted in years of pain and despair.  And of course all this happened because of Snow and Charming ripping apart mother and child.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

Lily was adopted as a baby, so no worries about abusive foster family. I think Lily would have capitalized on that when she first met Emma if that were the case. I think Lily was just a messed up kid who liked attention. More likely we'll see Lily messing up Emma's life, but Emma feeling guilty about reacting like a normal person and "pushing her away." Bonus points if they can parallel this with Emma/Regina in the present.

[Curio]

So last week was basically about Isaac and Cruella, the week before was about Robin and Zelena, and looking at this week's episode title... Lily? 

 

I'm so glad the writers decided to focus more on the "core characters" this half season...

[Camera One]

Oh totally, I loved it when "drove right in" to "explore" the Emma/Snow/Charming conflict these last 2 episodes (A&E's words in quotes), and I'm looking forward to more of that in this upcoming episode, since Lily is at the core of that betrayal so naturally it will be about them, right?  

[Curio]

So, I'm praying to the gods of ABC that Zelena is lying about being pregnant. But if she is actually pregnant, I'm going to speculate that there will be some twist where Zelena is about to die, and in order to save the child, they magically transfer the child over to Regina's womb instead. Then, we can be rid of Zelena and her scenery chewing once and for all. (It's sad that this is a legitimate plot line the writers would consider doing on this show.)

Edited April 27, 2015 by Curio

[Souris]

I could see that happening, sigh. I could also see Zelena dying shortly after giving birth, and Regina adopting the baby.

[ImogenLeFay]

So, I'm praying to the gods of ABC that Zelena is lying about being pregnant.

 

Yeah, I'm not going to count on that again. I actually thought she was lying all the way back when she told Regina they were sisters - with everybody being related to everybody I was 100% sure she was just saying that to screw with Regina, and then it turned out she was lying. Not giving them the benefit of the doubt again.

 

...and I so called the pregnancy from the creepy meat loaf line.

[Rumsy4]

I donno... Would A&E do that to their beloved Regina? I think Zelena's faking it.

[YaddaYadda]

She probably is and she probably told him after Regina called his phone because she likely knew it was a matter of time before Regina showed up on their doorstep to save the Code from Zelena's evil clutches.

[KingOfHearts]

I don't see how they would handle Zelena's pregnancy. For one, it'll be eight or nine months before she'll even given birth, which is like 3 seasons in Once time. Plus, like others have stated, this would be a thorn in Regina's happy ending, and we can't have that. They only want Zelena for the cackling.

My guess for the purpose of it even coming up is A) shock value, B) temporary Outlaw Queen angst and C) to give a reason to bring Zelena to Storybrooke. I'm personally tired of the writers jabbing at Regina with these twists out of nowhere. How many Marians are there going to be before they stop recycling the same idea? Give us her happy ending and be done with it, please. The Evil Regals are restless.

Edited April 27, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I'm getting tired of this OQ angst. I guess the writers want to postpone their happy ending until the season finale. So, until then, everyone will believe that Zelena is pregnant and bring her to Storybrooke, and Regina will still be involved in Operation Mongoose.

 

Meanwhile, Robin will be figuring out which part of his famous code to invoke now. Robin should really have stayed celibate in New York saying that he needed time before getting intimate with Marian again. But that man thinks with his ----. 

Edited April 27, 2015 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

Robin takes the whole "love the one you're with" to a whole new level.  It bugs.  A lot.  I can absolutely understand why he won't leave his child behind though.  Zelena is batshit crazy, she might harm herself just for shits and giggles.

 

I will never look at meatloaf the same again.

 

ETA - 

 

Regarding Lily and Emma,

Apprentice: The Savior, he made me channel her potential for darkness into Maleficent's child.  There must be a way to undo it.

Sorcerer: I'm afraid not.  What's done is done, my Apprentice.

Apprentice: What of the girls, their fates...

Sorcerer: Remain entwined as they always were and always shall be.

 

 

So about this then, I guess regardless of what Snowing did, Emma and Lily were always going to be part of each others' lives then.  I think even if they hadn't done anything, if the curse hadn't happened, Lily would still have had that darkness inside of her and would have been a villain to Emma's light and hero.  I think they're supposed to be the Ying and Yang and balance each other out.  It's like the writers never had to go there with pushing Emma's "darkness" off on Lily.

Edited April 27, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Souris]

Given the soapy twist at the end of last ep, can we expect that Zelena & Robin's baby will be SORAS'ed* into a girlfriend for Henry in about, oh, six eps?

 

*Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome, for those who aren't familiar with the genre

Edited April 28, 2015 by Souris

[KingOfHearts]

 

Given the soapy twist at the end of last ep, can we expect that Zelena & Robin's baby will be SORAS'ed* into a girlfriend for Henry in about, oh, six eps?

If there's another baby, we can only hope they age it up whether by SORAS or magic means. But with our luck it'll be a revengeful guy who blames his parents for ruining his life, so he goes back in time under the alias Prince Jonathan to make sure his mother gets abandoned by Cora and never becomes royalty. So he becomes his own grandfather.

 

I speculate the Author is going to die. How long can A&E keep a man around who can manipulate the fabric of time and space? I doubt he'll be back for S5.

Edited April 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

The baby will be half green and will be bullied by Baby Snowflake.  

[KAOS Agent]

The baby will be Marian reincarnated.

[Camera One]

The baby will be Marian reincarnated.

 

LOL, how would that work.  Wait a minute, it's this show... never mind.

[Camera One]

Tonight is the last episode before the 2-hour finale.  If past pattern holds, this episode will be all setup, but will be an enjoyable and tense episode.  I usually have enjoyed the setup episodes right before each finale, more than the finale itself.  I'm curious whether I will feel the same, in a half-season with practically no redeeming qualities, which has done seemingly irreparable damage to several key characters.  So far, for me, Emma and Hook are still undamaged overall by the writers, but they're the only two left on this show who have so far generally escaped this fate.  So I am on the edge of my seat, but probably not for the right reasons.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Camera One

[HoodlumSheep]

I speculate the Author is going to die. How long can A&E keep a man around who can manipulate the fabric of time and space? I doubt he'll be back for S5.

Author has a good chance of dying. I think the Apprentice has a chance of dying too. He's got some nifty magic skills that Rumple could percieve as a threat. Both of them are probably a threat to Rumple.

[Camera One]

Lily and Maleficent also has a chance of being cannon fodder before the end of the season, though maybe they'll get their happy ending.

 

The Apprentice is still trapped in the Hat, so he's out of play for the time being, and I can see him disappearing into the ether afterwards.  We can still anticipate the appearance of the grand poobah (The Sorcerer) in non-smoke form, probably next season or the one after.

 

If they're going by their playbook, maybe Maleficent and Lily will kill Snow and Charming and take their place, and make the big reveal in 5A.  That would utterly destroy Emma for good, and maybe the final season will be Emma as the New Evil Queen trying to destroy Regina and Henry's life, in a role reversal, before she is finally defeated in the series finale.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

If they're going by their playbook, maybe Maleficent and Lily will kill Snow and Charming and take their place, and make the big reveal in 5A.  That would utterly destroy Emma for good, and maybe the final season will be Emma as the New Evil Queen trying to destroy Regina and Henry's life, in a role reversal, before she is finally defeated in the series finale.

 

Camera One, you're grounded.  Go to your room!  No posting for you until after the show.  Now march!

 

Putting stuff out there in the universe...I swear!

[HoodlumSheep]

^ I forgot about the Apprentice being trapped in the hat. Lol. He keeps appearing in a bunch of the episodes, but I guess it escaped my mind that he's still in the hat presently and that he's just been in the flashbacks. Ugh. My mind is just a jumbled mess when it comes to this show.

I imagine he'll come into play somehow again though.

Edited May 3, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[KAOS Agent]

They'll get the Apprentice out by doing something totally novel like turning the hat upside down and shaking it. This will occur about five seconds after Regina/Rumpel/Zelena/Insert Other Villain get what they need for the author and the world turns upside down.

[Rumsy4]

They'll get the Apprentice out by doing something totally novel like turning the hat upside down and shaking it. This will occur about five seconds after Regina/Rumpel/Zelena/Insert Other Villain get what they need for the author and the world turns upside down.

 

And the next second, Rumple will appear out of nowhere, crush the heart of the Apprentice (he is probably older than Rumple and knew him before he became the Dark One), and finally "cleave" himself from the Dagger. 

[Camera One]

I thought Rumple forgot about that quest.

[Rumsy4]

I thought Rumple forgot about that quest.

 

Which, lbr, makes it a prime candidate to be the deus ex machina that resolves the plot. 

Edited May 3, 2015 by Rumsy4

[HoodlumSheep]

That same exact thought crossed my mind awhile back about the cleaving. Wait, did the Apprentice know Rumple before he was the Dark One? I don't remember that. I suppose they could have bumped into each other on the street one day. Also, maybe the stars align on a weekly basis. So he wouldn't have to worry about that either.

[Rumsy4]

The Apprentice was around when Zoso was the Dark One. He may have bumped into Rumple at some point. :-p

[YaddaYadda]

The Apprentice was around when Zoso was the Dark One. He may have bumped into Rumple at some point. :-p

 

They did "bump" into each other.  4x04 was all about that.

[Rumsy4]

I meant before Rumple took over as the Dark One, which is apparently a necessary clause for the cleaving to succeed.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Rumsy4

[HoodlumSheep]

Are you talking about the whole Mickey fiasco or something that Rumple mentioned? 'Cause I can't remember pre-Dark One rumple bumping into the Apprentice.

[Camera One]

We haven't seen the pre-Dark One Rumple bumping into the Apprentice, but that can always be revealed in a future flashback.  Nothing is sacred and anything can be retconned or reworked, as we can see from what they did to Snowing this half-season.

[DayPlayerAtKellys]

I don't think so. Like August said, the author is a job - when the current one is unavailable, they chose a different one. 

 

 

I think it would be best if Henry were the new Author.

[Rumsy4]

I think one day, he will be...

[YaddaYadda]

So I guess the Sorcerer will have to come out of hiding to stop the Author?

[Anakerie]

Calling it now:  The Sorcerer is that dude who cleans the floors in the hospital psychiatric ward. 

[daxx]

I suspect Blue might be the sorcerer. She was all kinds of shady when they talked about the sorcerer and author in Grannies.

[Souris]

I suspect Blue might be the sorcerer. She was all kinds of shady when they talked about the sorcerer and author in Grannies.

 

I wondered about that myself.

[Camera One]

Without watching previews, I literally cannot make any predictions about next week, because they could literally do whatever.  If Rumple does in fact write a new story, does that completely erase everyone's personalities?  Plus they lose all their previous memories?  They can't actually be changing the past, can they?  How is anyone going to "wake up" from this alternate world to save the day?  That will be a required contrived plot point.  Again, there's no basis for prediction since none of this makes any sense.  As I said before, this could very well be fun like "Snow Falls/There's No Place Like Home" was.  But this is so much more off-the-cuff than that.  

If someone ends this alternate story by Rumple, does Rumple's heart still heal?  Can the writer just cure any disease. even one determined by the cosmic laws of karma?

[crystalwearer]

If someone ends this alternate story by Rumple, does Rumple's heart still heal?  Can the writer just cure any disease. even one determined by the cosmic laws of karma?

I think he can. What's curious is that he's giving Rumpel a full-on sword-and-sorcery AU live-action novel instead of just scribbling "and then Rumpel's heart magically undarkened and he spent the rest of his life doing charitable works for the poor and helpless to keep it that way".

I'm wondering whether this is a mechanism for healing Rumpel's heart (because alt-Rumpel performs six heart-lightening acts of heroism every day before breakfast) or a power play by the author. "I'll make you a hero in a story where all your favorite heroes are villians ... but all of you are also slaves to my magic quill!" sounds like a standard Rumpel deal to me.

[MDKNIGHT]

I think he can. What's curious is that he's giving Rumpel a full-on sword-and-sorcery AU live-action novel instead of just scribbling "and then Rumpel's heart magically undarkened and he spent the rest of his life doing charitable works for the poor and helpless to keep it that way".

 

I think the reason he doesn't is that that would be boring.  Nobody wants to "read" about Ebenezer Scrooge AFTER his change of heart.  Nobody wants to "read" Rumplestiltskin brought sandwiches to the town picnic or made a sizeable donation to the pediatric wing of the hospital.  It is either Rumple stole a baby OR Rumple saved a maiden.  It isn't Rumple is a normal guy.

 

Still I think there has to be something deeply wrong with the author to go along with this. 

 

ETA

 

All My Children used to have a thing where fans wrote in things they'd like to see and the actors would do them I don't know if it was for April Fools or what.  (another soap had a yearly musical)  But I have a feeling that the season finale will be  a little like that only Rumple is the fan.  I think Snow will be acting like and dressing like Regina.  That could be funny. 

Edited May 5, 2015 by MDKNIGHT

[Anakerie]

I still think the Author should just say "Screw it" and mess with them.  Belle finds herself unable to speak, only quack. Rumple is a manager at Subway. Henry has incurable headlice. Pongo is the town mayor. The potential is endless if he'd just be creative. 

[Souris]

Except he's A&E's self-insert, so….

[Amerilla]

....and that's far too creative and whimsical for these writers anyway.

[Shanna Marie]

Pongo for Mayor! I could get behind that.

[Camera One]

I just saw a snippet of the promo for the season finale on ABC tonight.  I turned away immediately but I saw a few flashes.

 

It looks like the villains are now the heroes, and the heroes are now the villains.  Huh?  I thought the point was that the villains would get the happy endings while still keeping their core personalities, while the heroes would toil evermore in a depressing unhappy ending.   So now the former heroes will victimize the former villains?   What does this have to do with Rumple's heart healing again?