Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[Rumsy4]

All jokes aside, when they brought up the Author and the Sorcerer, all I could think of was Jacob and Man in Black sitting not far from the beach playing their chess game. I wish A&E had a bit more imagination than recycle plots from another show.

Besides, isn't that plagiarism or something?

They've been riffing off LOST right from the start. This author plot is very much like Jacob (author) vs MIB (Rumple). A&E must know the Jacob thing didn't go over too well in LOST. So, I don't get why they're trying to replicate it in OUAT. It doesn't fit.,

[YaddaYadda]

They've been riffing off LOST right from the start.

 

Oh, I know that!  I mean I used to be a huge Lost fan and I didn't even finish the series because I  got annoyed.  I hope they don't decide to delve in religion because nothing will make me quit this bitch faster than that.

[Camera One]

I'll reply in the "Lost" thread.

[Bluerang1]

And the finale will be Emma waking up from a coma induced sleep where she dreamt all of this.  They're going to Dallas this, aren't they?  

 

All jokes aside, when they brought up the Author and the Sorcerer, all I could think of was Jacob and Man in Black sitting not far from the beach playing their chess game.  I wish A&E had a bit more imagination than recycle plots from another show.

 

Besides, isn't that plagiarism or something?

 

Completely agree! I didn't even watch Lost but I know of these characters and their roles on the show and immediately thought of them too. They were Lost writers and their basically just adding a Fairytale spin to it.

[RadioGirl27]

And the finale will be Emma waking up from a coma induced sleep where she dreamt all of this. They're going to Dallas this, aren't they?

Nah, this is going to be Henry's imagination trying to cope with his two moms divorce.

[The Cake is a Pie]

I can see it now.... the last 5 minutes of the entire series... suddenly we see a normal house in the middle of the suburbs, and inside... Henry is daydreaming in his room / writing in his journal / updating his blog / whatever it is kids do these days and there's a knock on his door. It's his mom, Emma! and his stepdad, Hook! They tell him it's time to go, they're dropping him off to spend the weekend with his dad, Neal! and his dad's new wife, Henry's new stepmom....REGINA. DUUUUUNNNN!!!!!

[ShadowFacts]

And then Emma and Hook depart for the airport for their flight on Oceanic 815. 

[KingOfHearts]

With all the Lost actors appearing on the show, I wonder if it's just the afterlife for their characters...

Edited December 19, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

So, are they killing off all three villaineses by the end of 4b? What's the betting? So far, none of the short-term villains have survived (Cora, Tamara, Greg, Pan, Zelena, Ingrid). But offing three characters at once seems excessive, even for ONCE. I would guess that at least one out of three Queens of Darkness will survive at the end of 4B--most likely Maleficent.

[YaddaYadda]

They can just march them out of town.  And we can't discount Rumple.  I mean what are they gonna do with him?  He's evil and he's recruiting.  Unless he's completely powerless by the end of 4B, what do you do with a character like that.  How do you deal with having this powerful sorcerer who tried to put the Savior in the hat, took Hook's heart and had him put the fairies in the hat and then tried to gain ultimate power by separating himself from the dagger.

 

I mean seriously...I wouldn't wanna live in the same town as Rumplestiltskin.  It's like knowing your next door neighbor did time for rape or murder (I know, everyone will go Regina is that and she lives in SB).

[KingOfHearts]

 

I mean seriously...I wouldn't wanna live in the same town as Rumplestiltskin.  It's like knowing your next door neighbor did time for rape or murder (I know, everyone will go Regina is that and she lives in SB).

 

Well, at this time, Rumple is more likely to kill people than Regina. That's due to change as always.

[Camera One]

So, are they killing off all three villaineses by the end of 4b?

 

Maybe all three will learn the errors of their ways and will continue to live in Storybrooke.  What's three more psychotic sociopaths kicking around town?

[Souris]

I could see Ursula surviving but ending up back in FairyTale land somehow. If she is a goddess or sort of one, that would up her survival chances, I'd think.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm thinking Ursula probably lost most of her powers for whatever reason (I'm sure she fell in love with a mortal.  They'll probably recycle Regina's back story with Daniel for her and sprinkle some of the Disney version of Ariel in that as well.  Tsk, tsk, not supposed to fall with a mortal when you're a goddess).  She resists, she gets banished, that's why she hasn't been seen in centuries.    

 

ETA - Bored and re-watching S3 right now and I'm watching Ariel.

 

Ursula hasn't been seen in a thousand years, so much so that she's become sort of a myth.  She's the one who granted their kind the sort of luxury to walk on earth for 12 hours which means that Ursula probably did that as well, just like Ariel.

 

Jolly Roger captain's cabin has moldings of mermaids and the face of a bearded man

now I'm assuming that's Poseidon

Edited December 20, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[MDKNIGHT]

Since the Lost crew isn't above screwing with time what if "the Author" is Henry from the future?  I once read a short story where a kid gets a phone call from someone in the future who then gives his dad stock tips.  In the end the guy tells the kid that he is him from the future who needed to help him though a rough patch because dad would have a break down soon and the guy wanted to reassure his younger self that everything works out for him in the end so he wouldn't suffer as much.  He knows his extended family will take him, be nice to him, and he eventually figures out time travel and becomes rich.  What if old Henry eventually becomes the sorcerer (Emma has magic maybe he inherited magic) and writes the book and sends the book to his younger self to start him on his quest to find Emma and break the curse etc? 

Edited December 20, 2014 by MDKNIGHT

[KingOfHearts]

 

Since the Lost crew isn't above screwing with time what if "the Author" is Henry from the future?

I thought of that too. Technically it would be a paradox because Henry would write the books because he found the books he already wrote in the future, but I don't think this show really cares. Lost had its own paradox with Richard's compass. Anyway, my only problem with that is we'd have to break the time travel law again... which means it will definitely happen.

[Rumsy4]

I was thinking about Jacob and LOST again, and considering how many ideas A&E have borrowed from LOST, I think the author/sorcerer is going to turn into this powerful string-pulling puppet-master of the series. Whether people liked the Jacob/MIB twist or not, hints were planted right from the start. But with ONCE, even as recently as the 3B finale, we were shown that the writing in the book follows events, and not the other way around. Rumple has been shown to manipulate people across the centuries, but we were never given a hint of any other behind the scenes entity. If it turns out that there is some powerful being going around manipulating events, I will be so disappointed. But I have a bad feeling that's the direction they are going right now.

 

ETA: On a different note, what's the betting all three Queens of Darkness will die by the end of S4? Or will at least one of them survive? Given the history of the half-season villains, none of them has any chance of surviving. 

Edited December 22, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Souris]

I think Maleficent will survive, because she's such an iconic character. Same with Ursula. (And they really need another POC as a recurring character.) I suspect Ursula will end up back in the Enchanted Forest, so off-canvas but capable of coming back if they want her. Cruella seems the most expendable.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Souris

[KingOfHearts]

I bet they're all going to kick the bucket. The writers have proven time and time again how uncreative they are when it comes to Big Bads. They disappointed me with Zelena, Cora and Ingrid. I expect it to happen again.

Edited December 22, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised.  That way, they can buy themselves three big semi-finales in a single half-season.  

[KAOS Agent]

With three big bads maybe Emma will finally get a chance to take one down. Oh who am I kidding? Emma will join Hook in Captain Swan Floor while Regina will cry and make the author give her super white magic to defeat everyone making her the most heroic of heroes. 

[Camera One]

The Author is Regina herself, unwilling to give herself a happy ending since she's so selfless.  Lesson: It is important to forgive yourself.

[OnceUponAJen]

No, no...Emma will wake up in Princeton Plainsboro hospital where she's being treated by Dr. House for a rare sleeping disease. This has Newhart written all over it. :)

[KingOfHearts]

Page 23 and the Library of Empty Books seem to imply fate is changeable and not set in stone... so why are they still hunting for the author? I'm not sure what the show was trying to say with those revelations.

[Actionmage]

Page 23 and the Library of Empty Books seem to imply fate is changeable and not set in stone... so why are they still hunting for the author? I'm not sure what the show was trying to say with those revelations.

 

It's like the Johnny Cash song, "6 Feet High and Rising": During a flood, there are chances for the song's focus to leave and be safe, but these chances aren't taken. When the focus meets their Maker, the focus character asks, 'Why didn't you save me?' The Maker points out the chances that were presented to the character.

 

I think we are going to have to sit through Author Hunt '15. I just don't know if there will be a similar scene where the Author has to spell it out for Regina, but in tiny words, though.

 

Sadly, I think the showrunners think they have an amazing twist in store for Operation: Nonsense. Something where our minds? Are. Blown! Unfortunately, I don't trust them on that front. I would love to be good surprised, but I'm not using actual money to bet that  I will be.

[Gold]

I am very curious about the Storybook. I know that Regina is searching for the writer, but what if there is not writer? What if the characters are writing the book themselves? In one of the episodes when Hook and Emma travel back in time, they find the Storybook blank. This could prove what I am saying. 

[YaddaYadda]

But isn't this what the book is at the end of the day?  We write our own stories, no one does that for us.  Our lives are made of choices and circumstances.  Nothing is black and white like Regina is presenting it.  She is the villain in that book because of the choices she made.  She could have gone in the tavern but chose not to because she chickened out and preferred her revenge on Snow because Daniel whom she basically found out was not her true love or soulmate or whatever the writers were going for.  It's not to say that she should have forgotten about him because no, he was an important person in her life.  But the book was a collection of stories that had already happened, the present and the future are not written.

 

When they find that person they're seeking, he needs to laugh at them and be like well idiots, you clearly know nothing.

[OnceUponAJen]

I just think back to the S3 finale. As Emma and Hook traipsed through history, the book changed to match what actually happened. Once Snowing's initial meeting was interrupted, the book erased all events after that, since they had been rendered uncertain.

I always thought it was fairly straightforward that the book records events either as they happen or after the fact. There may be a master puppeteer who knows the possible outcomes, but those would be negated by individual choices.

[Camera One]

Why did the Book or the Sorcerer suddenly create an extra page?  Because he/she had nothing else to do and decided to give Regina hope?  Why does he/she/it care? It's all so stupid it's impossible to properly predict what might happen because it makes no sense.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

You know what's gonna happen?  Everything we were worried about last year when Hook and Emma traveled through time and the chance that they might have messed something up which they actually haven't except for bringing Marian and Elsa with them...They'll find the author, the bad guys will do so first and then fuck up everyone's lives (including theirs because at the end of the day villains are actually stupid and have tunnel vision, they always miss the forest for the trees) and then it will become a race to fix everything the way it was.  

 

Happy endings are not what we think they will be, they keep harping on on that.

 

ETA - Rumple's happy ending is no fairies, having his son alive, being all powerful without the dagger, a dead Hook and Belle.  How many things does this mess up if he gets what he wants?  That's just an example of the massive fuck up and we don't know what his three flunkies want for their happy endings.

Edited January 2, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[ParadoxLost]

But isn't this what the book is at the end of the day?  We write our own stories, no one does that for us.  Our lives are made of choices and circumstances.  

 

I tend to think they are going to do something along these lines.  But I think the major point is going to be that there are all these blank books.  There is no happy ending.  That only happens in fairy tales.  In the real world, you keep on living and things keep on happening and some are good and some are bad.   It doesn't matter if you are the hero or villain, except that if you want family and friends, doing dastardly deeds is going to play into whether you get to keep those relationships.

 

I suspect that originally they wanted to tell the story of what happens after the tales say 'and they lived happily ever after' and that is why they planned to kill Charming off before the network stopped them.  I think this is the show trying to get back to that idea because it intrigues them but I'm sure plot will divert them from actually getting the point across if they are intending that.

[KingOfHearts]

I find it ironic that Regina of all people thinks getting everything she wants warrants a happy ending. She spent 28 years with everything she could ever hope for and she was still unhappy. She had the whole town under her thumb, revenge on Snow, a pleasure boy, a child, adoration and power. That, according to her, was her happy ending. She should be the flipping cover girl for getting everything and still not obtaining satisfaction. In all those years, was there no reflection? Was there no, "Crap, that hole in my heart Maleficent talked about is real" or "Revenge really isn't what it's cracked up to be"? If she couldn't get through the first week without getting bored to tears, I don't know how she could have gone the rest of the time with no regrets.

 

As psychotic as Regina is, I believe "the book is why I'm suffering" was more for getting the Author plot on the roll than giving her an actual epiphany. There were many other paths her redemption arc could have taken in 4A, and sadly they weren't. 4B is either going to make or break the show, and it really centers around Regina. Betting on the wrong character, A&E.

[YaddaYadda]

Does anyone ever wonder or worry that because the mission for the book is called Mongoose (vs Operation Cobra) that something might accidentally happen to Emma since a mongoose can actually do a cobra in? It can't be a coincidence that they called this whole book quest that. Weirdly enough I just keep going back to Bleeding Through where Zelena's plan was to go back in time to presumably kill Ava which would have erased her line. Ava dying before she marries Leo meant no Snow, no Emma and...no Henry.

Edited January 2, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[OnceUponAJen]

Well, Operation Cobra was the plot to break the original curse cast by the Evil Queen. If she wants to undo it to reinstate her happy ending, I guess Mongoose is as good a name as any to choose. Regina wants to change only her ending rather than go back to taking everyone else's away. However, others could be affected by changes made to her story. If she succeeds, there could be ripple effects that impact Emma.

[YaddaYadda]

Well, Operation Cobra was the plot to break the original curse cast by the Evil Queen. If she wants to undo it to reinstate her happy ending, I guess Mongoose is as good a name as any to choose. Regina wants to change only her ending rather than go back to taking everyone else's away. However, others could be affected by changes made to her story. If she succeeds, there could be ripple effects that impact Emma.

 

I think Regina might think twice about the whole thing and consequences.  I don't think she will be the problem.  If they wanna show character growth for her, then consequences.  However, Rumple and the flunkies, a whole other story.  So, by the time this is all done, they will probably have reset the original curse that Emma broke.  Sounds peachy.

[OnceUponAJen]

I guess it depends on how steadfast the Author is about his/her storylines, or if it's even possible to rewrite someone's ending. If the Author is absolutely against villains winning out, then he could refuse to comply.

[Curio]

I think Regina might think twice about the whole thing and consequences. I don't think she will be the problem.

 

Regina thinking about consequences and the big picture? I'll believe it when I see it. I could totally imagine Regina meeting the author, having him tell her he can give her a happy ending with her "true love," and then Regina says OKAY! And then she'll freak out when she finds herself living a modest farm life with Daniel. She'll find the author again, complain that's not what she meant, and then the author can be like, "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know which true love you wanted to be with. Did you want your son instead? Or did you want Robin Hood? I can't keep track of how many true loves you have."

Edited January 2, 2015 by Curio

[RadioGirl27]

Does anyone ever wonder or worry that because the mission for the book is called Mongoose (vs Operation Cobra) that something might accidentally happen to Emma since a mongoose can actually do a cobra in? It can't be a coincidence that they called this whole book quest that. Weirdly enough I just keep going back to Bleeding Through where Zelena's plan was to go back in time to presumably kill Ava which would have erased her line. Ava dying before she marries Leo meant no Snow, no Emma and...no Henry.

If Regina goes back to the tavern and chooses Robin, that means no curse, no Emma in the world without magic, no Henry. It's not a loss for us, but it would be a loss for Emma.

And, if it's Rumple who rewrites the book, then bye bye Hook. Her loss and ours.

Thers is no way this ends in a satisfying way.

[scenicbyway]

Does anyone ever wonder or worry that because the mission for the book is called Mongoose (vs Operation Cobra) that something might accidentally happen to Emma since a mongoose can actually do a cobra in? It can't be a coincidence that they called this whole book quest that. Weirdly enough I just keep going back to Bleeding Through where Zelena's plan was to go back in time to presumably kill Ava which would have erased her line. Ava dying before she marries Leo meant no Snow, no Emma and...no Henry.

 

Actually, I do worry about it a bit, especially since Emma's title is "The Savior."  Will she have to die to bring everyone's happy endings?  I would hope that Emma will get a happy ending.

[KingOfHearts]

 

If Regina goes back to the tavern and chooses Robin, that means no curse, no Emma in the world without magic, no Henry. It's not a loss for us, but it would be a loss for Emma.

Honestly, if Emma grew up loved in EF, she'd be happier. I may have said something different in S1, but I don't think Henry really adds much to the show at all besides being a plot device. He and Emma barely do anything together any more, and Regina has moved on to Robin Hood. If we go the alternate reality route, I'm very game.

Edited January 2, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[OnceUponAJen]

I don't agree that there would be no curse. Rumpelstiltskin would have to find someone else to cast it, wouldn't he?

Edited January 2, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Camera One]

At the end of the day, the characters will change everything back, and it will be the status quo again.  They will never just stay with an alternate reality.

[kili]

I don't agree that there would be no curse. Rumpelstiltskin would have to find someone else to cast it, wouldn't he?

 

He would, but it took him a lifetime to cultivate Regina's hatred/craziness to the point where she would sacrifice her father to take away Snow's happy ending. He'd have to start again with a new person. By that point, Emma would not be a baby and Rumple would have to find a new "True Love" baby to be his savoir. That assumes that Charming and Snow would meet since Snow would no longer have to be a bandit. I'm going to assume that Charming still becomes a Prince since Rumple arranged that for some other reason (he had no idea that Snow and Charming would meet and become True Loves).

 

More practically, Rumple already had his heart set on Regina casting the curse (whether to get back at Cora for thwarting him or because he had foreseen it). If Regina had run off with Robin Hood, I do not doubt that Rumple would have killed him and probably framed Leo/Snow/Eva's Ghost for the murder. It would have just been another step on her road to crazy town. By walking away from him, she saved his life.

 

It would be funny if most of 4B consists of Regina forcing the author to change various way points in her life and she keeps ending up having a worse life.

 

If the Author wants to dole out a happy ending to multiple people, he's going to have to write some dues ex machina  in  his book to get Rumple to learn that his son is actually in Neverland and he can go there any time he likes while not losing his magic. Jefferson can use his hat or Rumple can find another magic bean or he probably knows how to call the shadow.

[Rumsy4]

I don't agree that there would be no curse. Rumpelstiltskin would have to find someone else to cast it, wouldn't he?

Unless he decided to settle down with Belle, and fulfill his quest some other way (million ways to get to Neverland, or the land without magic, after all, and he would have succeeded this time).

As for Hook, what would be his happy ending? Not docking at the port where Rumple found him and Milah? Perhaps he and Milah just live out their lives as pirates. Alternatively, if Milah had indeed been killed by Rumple, Hook would come back to the EF from Neverland, bringing Baelfire with him. Bae convinces his dad to spare Hook, and Hook gives up on revenge for the sake of Bae. He meets princess Emma in the EF, and they fall in love like one of those Captain Duckling fics. He gives up piracy, and Snowing make him a captain in their royal navy. Regina runs off with Robin, and Marian finds someone better to inspire and marry. Henry would be missing from the picture--that is the happy ending for the viewers. ;-)

Edited January 2, 2015 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

 

I don't agree that there would be no curse. Rumpelstiltskin would have to find someone else to cast it, wouldn't he?

Which makes it all the more interesting. Maybe he would go groveling back to Zelena, since it had to be Cora's daughter. Then you have a whole other Storybrooke curse scenario with all kinds of crazy fun.

 

 

By that point, Emma would not be a baby and Rumple would have to find a new "True Love" baby to be his savoir.

Snowflake?

Edited January 2, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

He would, but it took him a lifetime to cultivate Regina's hatred/craziness to the point where she would sacrifice her father to take away Snow's happy ending. He'd have to start again with a new person

 

Given what we saw in 3B with Snow enacting the Curse, this retconning would have allowed Rumple to easily have been the Curse rendering service provider like Regina was.  There should be no shortage of desperate souls in the Enchanted Forest.  

 

I suppose they can make the excuse that how Rumple enacted the Curse *must* be according to the convoluted "visions" he received, or else he wouldn't have landed at the same time as Bae.  Even though this becomes less and less likely with every Magic Door and Magic Rabbit Hole that these writers create.  If we get to Season 12, Regina will probably have twelve sisters by that point.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

But we don't know that Emma would even exist at all.  I mean if say Regina goes into the tavern to meet her "destiny", she and Robin hit it off, fall in love, maybe Regina decides to reform and she and Snow mend fences (I mean we did sort of come close to that when Regina was disguised as someone else until Snow saw that village that had been massacred).  Regina and Snow make amends like say now, Snow goes back to the castle, so she's no longer a bandit, her meeting David might not happen.  Everything we saw in Snow Fall and Snow Drift wouldn't happen that way anymore because Regina and Snow are okay now.  

 

Rumple loses Regina as the person who is supposed to cast the curse, he may or may not have vested interest in Charming and Snow.

 

So Emma?  Would she even exist anymore?  Bae is in the Land without Magic, if Emma doesn't exist or Emma doesn't travel to the Land without Magic, then Henry goes bye bye (not a terrible thing to be honest).

 

If Rumple gets his chance, instead of cutting off Hook's hand and telling him it's not his time to die and he wants him to suffer, he will just kill him right after he kills Milah.  Hook managed to keep that magic bean Rumple wanted, the magic bean he was planning on using the find Bae, Bae who ended up in Neverland and was saved by Hook who used the magic bean to travel to Neverland.

 

So the Evil Queen and the Dark One making different decisions to get their happy ending and the repercussions it would basically have on everyone.  

 

As far as Regina goes, she is showing some sort of character growth.  She is the one who decided to do the right thing regarding saving Marian's life.  She's the one who made the difficult decision, not Robin.  She's the one who made the choice regarding Marian, not Robin.  So as far as I'm concerned, I'm not convinced that she is the issue.  Rumple on the other hand is a whole other story.  Look, I hate Regina as much as the next person, but where she started in 401 and where she landed in 411, there has been some sort of growth for her character.  Regina had this line last year after Zelena was defeated where she tells her something along the lines of she's trying to change and if she wasn't then she wouldn't have these people, so on some level, she might actually consider them something of a family even if she's bitchy (but she has like 3 speeds, bitchy, overly bitchy and complete nutcase).  This is one place a lot of us will have to agree to disagree ;)

[OnceUponAJen]

Which makes it all the more interesting. Maybe he would go groveling back to Zelena, since it had to be Cora's daughter. Then you have a whole other Storybrooke curse scenario with all kinds of crazy fun.

Hmmm....that scenario would actually get Zelena what she was going after in the first place. Rumple would pick her, and Regina would get her happy ending (whatever that is).

[Camera One]

This goes back to whether the Author "giving Regina a happy ending" involves changing the past, which seems unlikely since that would be against the laws of magic (except when Zelena does it), plus it creates all sorts of problems like Emma and Henry no longer existing.  

 

If we didn't care about world-building or logic, this could technically be the most "fun" route to actually watch.  In essence, it would be like if Regina went back in time instead of Emma and Hook in "There's No Place Like Home", and Regina could have decided to stop herself from enacting the Curse.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Camera One

[RadioGirl27]

One of the (many) things that worries me about this storyline is that, in the end, A&E are going to use it to justify Regina enacting the curse, saying that, because of the decissions Regina made, Snow and Charming met and fall in love, so Emma and Snowflake were born. That because of the curse Emma met Neal and had Henry, and now she has met Hook. And that their lifes would have been worse without Regina and the curse. So we would end up the season with everybody thanking Regina for all the pain she has inflicted them because it brought them their happy endings. Then Regina would realize this is her happy ending (+Robin, Roland and Henry).

Edited January 2, 2015 by RadioGirl27