S03.E04: Standard Burger

[Tara Ariano]

A Staten Island burger restaurant is losing money and is plagued by quarrels among the four owners.

[Lola16]

Sounds like it should be on Restaurant Stakeout. 

[Primetimer]

Good question. Sarah D. Bunting doesn't think so, and she has some other questions, too.

Read the story

[Christina]

I think this show has become too obviously scripted. It always was a bit, but this season just seems worse. Take, for instance, the flooding. It couldn't possibly be a bad pipe; no, it was because of milk crates and a storage shed full of junk. Right. It was a sheet of ice that was melting and had no where to go, like through the pipes. It was a dumb statement about junk to set up the scene inside where it was sooooo dirty that it had to be closed for remodeling. Which was always the plan!

 

It's frustrating to watch a show go down hill because of poor scripting. I can deal with it to some extent, like the first season of Pawn Stars or Storage Wars, because in exchange I got interesting facts about different things. Then they just became about stupid antics. I'm afraid The Profit is heading down the same path. Marcus is a relationship counselor now, in addition to a business partner, and the business info is lacking.

 

On this episode specifically, I don't think being the only place that sells yucca fries and red velvet cake shakes is going to get them the business Marcus thinks it will. In fact, $5.00 for a shake seems outrageous, and I may be addicted to ice cream (the first step is admitting it, and I refuse). I would, however, pay $7.00 for a good burger.

[nobodyyoucare]

Yucca fries is the latest trend in healthy eating its seven bucks at restaurants. 

 

Red Velvet cake shakes is also the latest thing.

 

BK has a version that is more food dye then actual cake at 4.49. http://www.theimpulsivebuy.com/wordpress/2015/05/18/review-burger-king-red-velvet-oreo-shake/

[Amarsir]

100% on board with Sarah's questions this week. It seemed like there were a lot of business changes actually made, but they were crammed in 15% of the show time and the rest annoyed me.  And I also don't understand why this was trumpeted as having "national" potential, while the vastly more successful Shuler's BBQ wasn't.

 

I'd be curious to see how well the baked potatoes turn out. Wendy's proves it can be done on the lower end, and we know a Red Robin style of casual dining can do it. Can it fit with the Burger-in-a-basket concept and is it worth the overhead the way they do it? 

[nobodyyoucare]

100% on board with Sarah's questions this week. It seemed like there were a lot of business changes actually made, but they were crammed in 15% of the show time and the rest annoyed me.  And I also don't understand why this was trumpeted as having "national" potential, while the vastly more successful Shuler's BBQ wasn't.

 

I'd be curious to see how well the baked potatoes turn out. Wendy's proves it can be done on the lower end, and we know a Red Robin style of casual dining can do it. Can it fit with the Burger-in-a-basket concept and is it worth the overhead the way they do it? 

The reason being for shuler's is bbq joints like that are pretty common. It would be hard to make it work. A burger joint offering a few unique dishes is on the other hand something that can be made a chain.

[attica]

$5.00 for a shake seems outrageous

 

I wish that were so. That's what I pay to the ice-cream-truck guy on Madison Avenue when I'm shake-jonesing. And that's a truck. 

 

I was paying attention to the sit-down where Marcus was asking the fellas to pony up 15K, and the only one who didn't shake on it was the Joe that took over the full-time gig. So I'm thinking his day job (if he had one, even) didn't support the dough, and was reason enough for him to be free for the owner-operator thing.

 

How do you bake a potato in 10 minutes? They made it seem like you pick your spud, they bake it up, but that can't be. There has to be some kind of pre-cooking process in place. Or maybe you pick your pre-baked spud. I don't know. I suppose it's a good option for the person in your party that doesn't want a burger, but I can't imagine it's going to be a popular side dish for burger-eaters, if only because you can't eat it with your hands.

 

None of the fries they showed looked remotely tasty. Overcooked and greasy, all of 'em. I haven't yet had a yucca fry that I thought was successful, but I did once have a yucca tot that blew my freaking mind. (which was at the Culinary Institute, not a burger joint in Staten Island.)

 

I know I've said this before, but it warms my feminist heart to point out that once again, we see a business flailing because the menfolk are all so emotional. Oh, the tears! Oh, the relationships that need tending and the hurt feelings that need soothing before any burgers can be sold!

[califred]

The cheapest shakes around here are 5 dollars and I live in NC.

[BusyOctober]

I just paid $5.75 for an extra thick shake (known as a frappe around these parts) and it wasn't at a fancy schmancy burger joint.  It was at the local dairy farm down the street.  And it was worth every damn penny!

 

I agree that this episode seemed off-pace with previous shows.  Too many unanswered questions is exactly what I thought. Sarah is 100% correct that world does not need ANOTHER burger place.  We don't have Shake Shack near me, but there are others - 5 Guys, 5 Napkins, Burger Dive. I've been to each only once & none of them left me in awe of a burger or their fries.  In fact the best burger I have ever had is at a local pub in my town.

 

Not sure what Marcus' ultimate money making goal is for this business.

[Amarsir]

Does Marcus have any marketing chops? (Other than getting the names of his businesses on CNBC I mean.)  Can anyone remember an episode that was about an ad campaign or generating publicity other than word-of-mouth?

 

I ask because let's grant that the place looks great and the burgers do taste better now. He raised prices and added seats to a place that was nearly empty. Is he just counting on people to wander by and fall in love?

 

By the way, for a guy who's fighting in court for the right to a frozen burger line, Marcus seems down on frozen patties. I wonder if he'd be saying the same thing if Stein Meats had come through and he was able to source the Brooklyn Burger to this place.

[Curious5]

There was a lot of product placement and advertising in this show.  The meat dealer really made out - even wondering if they pay the show for the coverage of their business.  Same with the cheese and bread.

 

The show is about making money and perhaps we forgot the show is making the money and if it is by other  companies being covered, whether it is landscaping or restaurant equipment, they accomplish their goal.

 

The viewers are along for the ride but usually I can pick up some tidbits that I can apply in our business.  Not so this time.

[nobodyyoucare]

Yucca fries when cooked look like regular steak fries. http://allrecipes.com/recipe/yuca-french-fries/

Note Yucca isn't cassava. They are two entirely different families of plants.

 

Both Yucca and cassava aka Yuca are eaten in Latin America.

 

You can make baked totatoes in under ten minutes using a microwave. Poke holes in the potato with a fork so it doesn't explode. Wrap in a paper towel. Microwave for five minutes. If hard or large potato cook for three more minutes. A number of microwaves now have a baked potato button. There are even bags made to cook potatoes in the microwave in under seven minutes. 

 

Depending upon how it is served and sized one can eat a baked potato using your hands. Note a lot of burger joints have burgers that have to use a knife and fork otherwise you risk dislocating your jaw. 

[attica]

A number of microwaves now have a baked potato button.

 

True, but a microwaved potato is not a baked potato. Crunchy skins!

[Amarsir]

I think this show has become too obviously scripted. It always was a bit, but this season just seems worse.

 

There was a lot of product placement and advertising in this show.  The meat dealer really made out - even wondering if they pay the show for the coverage of their business.  Same with the cheese and bread.

Speaking of these two things, where did Fuji get his original ingredients from? The show made it seem like they called him up, it was a 5 minute drive, and then the genius chef went into the kitchen and whipped up the world's best burger. From what? The fresh beef and spices the kitchen apparently didn't use?

 

Checking again just now, Marcus was wearing a different shirt during the cooking scene. Then went back to the previous one in the subsequent discussion about costs and when he made his offer. So they clearly manipulated the order to make it look like Fuji's recipe convinced Marcus to make the deal, when in fact he didn't cook anything at all until after the disorganized shed nonsense.

 

It feels like a more honest documenting of what happened is that Marcus decided he wanted to own a burger chain and was convinced to use this location because of the show. Then everything we saw was filling in the gaps.

[Shibori]

I'm really close to deleting my season pass for this show from my DVR.  I didn't get around to watching the cupcake guy until almost a week later, and I'm not super invested in this episode either.  Marcus has clearly had a lot of success in business, but he also has some real blind spots, and these shows are really accentuating them.  He started to lose me with "Queens Vibe", which was an appallingly bad concept, and he's made some other business choices since then that really made me question his judgement.  If the concept is that good business sense can translate to a variety of types of businesses, I don't know if they've been super successful in demonstrating that.

 

I like the show when the businesses they chose were ones that had the potential to be really big successes but something, usually the owner, was holding them back.  Last week with the cupcakes seemed like a total dud- that was one the Shark Tank gang would have passed on because it would take less money to start with a brand new business than fix this sad little store in a sad space and not-so-great location.  Again this week we have a dime-a-dozen (or $5 for 1!) concept that doesn't have a brand at all.  What are you seeing of so much value that makes these businesses particularly investible?  Because I'm not seeing it.

[nobodyyoucare]

 

"Queens Vibe", which was an appallingly bad concept

How was a store in which you could design your shirt or sneakers and have it printed off on the spot a bad concept? People used to pay hundreds for just one shirt and the cost with the printers used was only a 30 bucks or so. The bad stuff from Sal like the restaurant and sports complex Marcus wanted to get rid of. 

 

Problem was the owner not the concept of the store under Marcus. 

[Toleda]

This season seems to be about Marcus trying to generate brands based on "add your own toppings" items. I think there were really good reasons why that concept died 15 years ago; however, given the recent resurgence of frozen yogurt franchises, perhaps these kind of things are on a cycle. Also, did he say something about "fine dining"? I thought we were doing "fast casual," or something like that. Also--let's reunite brothers! And I want to know what Fuji DID, because clearly it was something.

[nobodyyoucare]

 

Marcus was wearing a different shirt during the cooking scene. Then went back to the previous one in the subsequent discussion about costs and when he made his offer.

Doesn't have to be the same shirt? Most people unless it is a slogan t-shirt etc tend to have multiple shirts that look the same but are different. Perhaps Marcus was worried about getting food on the shirt so he changed into a less expensive shirt That he wouldn't mind getting dirty. 

[Amarsir]

Doesn't have to be the same shirt? Most people unless it is a slogan t-shirt etc tend to have multiple shirts that look the same but are different. Perhaps Marcus was worried about getting food on the shirt so he changed into a less expensive shirt That he wouldn't mind getting dirty. 

Still wouldn't explain where the ingredients came from.

 

Day 1 he was wearing a checkered shirt, including when he originally sampled their menu. In the second half of the day he had a t-shirt over it.  Day 2 he had a white shirt on. When Fuji was cooking the burger, Marcus was standing next to him wearing white. Identical outfits and positions to the "much later" conversation about who is in charge of the menu.

 

Now sure, white shirts are an easy thing to have several of. Maybe Marcus arrived, talked with the guys for 5 hours, ate the frozen burgers in the checkered shirt, put on a t-shirt over the checkered shirt, then called Fuji who came over with the fresh ground beef and spices he generally travels with. Then Marcus, deciding he wanted to keep his new t-shirt clean, took off both shirts to put on one identical to the one he'd wear the next day. With that on he'd watch Fuji arrange a burger, then taste it. Then Marcus took it off, put back on the original outfit to sit down and make an offer. Then came back in the next day in a different white shirt to go back in the kitchen where Fuji would again be manipulating burgers in the same place to "create a new menu". I guess that's possible.

 

I just think it's more likely they played the clips out of order.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Amarsir

[nobodyyoucare]

If Marcus had been in the kitchen area for hours wearing that red shirt over his white shirt he may have decided to take off the red shirt if he was getting hot. Plus it was the store shirt. He may not have wanted to get it dirty. 

 

Fuji lived nearby. It would be easy for him to walk down to his house pick up spices and fresh burger meat and other stuff or he could have gone to a local   grocery store . 

 

His original outfit was a light pullover jacket over the white t-shirt. Something you wouldn't want to wear inside in a kitchen. When you see he has it on again it looks nighttime and the restaurant closed to customers. 

[Shibori]

How was a store in which you could design your shirt or sneakers and have it printed off on the spot a bad concept? People used to pay hundreds for just one shirt and the cost with the printers used was only a 30 bucks or so. The bad stuff from Sal like the restaurant and sports complex Marcus wanted to get rid of.

Oh, I didn't think the business idea was bad, just the Queens Vibe name that he insisted on using to rebrand. It just seemed so uncool and tone deaf, down to the graffiti logo straight out of the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air titles.

[toodles]

This show is becoming kitchen nightmares quickly. Marcus fixes the "family problems", hug it out and call it good. Marcus is becoming Gordon Ramsay lite. And I don't like it. I miss the flower shop Marcus.

[Lola16]

True, but a microwaved potato is not a baked potato. Crunchy skins!

I nuke my potatoes and then put them in the toaster oven for a minute to get them crispy.

 

So they had a packed house the day the crew showed up to film Marcus' return.  Are they filling those seats regularly?  Not sure they area will support a $15 per person casual dining burger.  Marcus can call it NYC but it's SI.  People aren't going to travel there for a burger.  And are locals going to pay that much for a burger every week? 

 

There was a lot more going on besides the chef coming in late a time or two.  They said product was missing.  Who knows what else was happening.

 

I too thought of A Stein while watching this episode.

 

What also seemed staged was the reveal of a wall art of the 5 partners at the end.  Same design was on a shirt worn by the emailing partner.  

 

They need to return to the original structure. This overscripting is just as bad as Restaurant Stakeout or Bar Makeover.

[caligirl50]

This was my favorite episode this season.  I thought Marcus was great throughout.  I like the way he deals with all the emotional stuff from the owners.  The shows don't seem scripted to me.  I am so glad it is back on the air.  I watched Season 2 over and over and over.  I really love watching Marcus' process. 

[nobodyyoucare]

15 dollar for drink, side and burger is pretty standard cost for a casual sit in or take out from better then fast food quality. 

 

Umami the cheapest burger with no drink, or side is ten bucks. 

 

 

worn by the emailing partner

What emailing partner? 

[Jesse]

Looking at the menu on their website, the prices don't look as high as Marcus wanted them, so maybe they did step back on the high quality ingredients some, to keep the margins. They look to be about on par, price-wise, with Shake Shack, which to me seems like the most I'd want to pay at a place I have to order at a counter.

 

But overall, like Sarah said, we need another mid-range burger chain? 

[clod]

maybe Marcus has a plan to use Brooklyn Burger in the Standard Burger restaurants.    But I have doubt that Marcus will get rights to Brooklyn Burger - unless he buys it (again).

 

 

is Standard Burger a good name?     I thought he would suggest a name change.

[nobodyyoucare]

Looking at the menu on their website, the prices don't look as high as Marcus wanted them, so maybe they did step back on the high quality ingredients some, to keep the margins. They look to be about on par, price-wise, with Shake Shack, which to me seems like the most I'd want to pay at a place I have to order at a counter.

 

But overall, like Sarah said, we need another mid-range burger chain? 

Actually standard is mid-range  . 

[Jesse]

That's what I'm saying -- the world already has plenty of these places! 

[nobodyyoucare]

Yeah Standard is an all right name. I have heard of a chain called Elevation Burgers as well as Hell Burgers. There are far worse names. 

 

That's what I'm saying -- the world already has plenty of these places! 

Oh I didn't realize it was sarcasm. its hard to tell on the internet.    

[camom]

Checked out the menu -- where are the yucca fries?

[Lola16]

Looking at the menu on their website, the prices don't look as high as Marcus wanted them, so maybe they did step back on the high quality ingredients some, to keep the margins. They look to be about on par, price-wise, with Shake Shack, which to me seems like the most I'd want to pay at a place I have to order at a counter.

Yea, I thought Marcus wanted a $12-14 burger as the base.  Which is insane in SI and most places.  The Standard burger is $7 and a cheeseburger is $6.  Is one larger?  Nowhere do I see beef weights. Oversight or intentional? 

 

It's an upgrade from Five Guys (which was like what their own concept was).   It's now sorta like Elevation Burger.   And very similar to BGR (where you also can see them make it in front of you).   I'm not seeing the differentiator except the layout which takes up a ton of space and that is a premium in most markets.

 

http://www.bgrtheburgerjoint.com/menu/

http://elevationburger.com/our-menu/

http://fiveguys.com/menu.aspx

[Lola16]

I think the only reason I'd go there versus another burger chain, is the homemade potato chips and ability to top them out like nachos. Reminds me of college :) Seriously, I wouldn't make a trip there but that would be some great after midnight food.

[Jesse]

The more I think about it, the more I buy that that neighborhood is a market for an upscale fast food type of place, but I just don't see it as a national roll-out. Marcus is five years too late on that one. 

Also, it's a bummer as a consumer to really think about commercial food margins (this and the cupcakes, too)! Go back to obscure manufacturing businesses, please!

[nobodyyoucare]

Yea, I thought Marcus wanted a $12-14 burger as the base.  Which is insane in SI and most places.  The Standard burger is $7 and a cheeseburger is $6.  Is one larger?  Nowhere do I see beef weights. Oversight or intentional? 

 

It's an upgrade from Five Guys (which was like what their own concept was).   It's now sorta like Elevation Burger.   And very similar to BGR (where you also can see them make it in front of you).   I'm not seeing the differentiator except the layout which takes up a ton of space and that is a premium in most markets.

 

http://www.bgrtheburgerjoint.com/menu/

http://elevationburger.com/our-menu/

http://fiveguys.com/menu.aspx

Marcus wanted the average of the meal meaning burger, drink and side to be 15. 

 

The dollar difference in the standard is likely it being a potato roll, toppings.

[nobodyyoucare]

Checked out the menu -- where are the yucca fries?

On the site it says three types of fries.http://www.standardburgers.com/pages/about-us

 

Note they are reopening the 6th and Marcus is aroud according to a facebook post but it also says no promises on him appearing for the reopening.

 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Standard-Burger/

[camom]

Interesting, because the menu only lists standard and sweet potato fries.

 

Grand reopening?  Weren't they already reopened when they filmed?  I'm so confused.

Edited June 4, 2015 by camom

[Jesse]

Marcus wanted the average of the meal meaning burger, drink and side to be 15. 

 

 

 

I thought he was saying food costs would be $3 or whatever for a high quality burger, making the menu price $12. I could be misremembering, though!

 

I'm pretty excited I already had plans to go to a fancy fast food burger place for lunch tomorrow... 

[Flyin.Bryan]

$400k to remodel the burger joint? You could start a restarurant from scratch for that price!

 

Usually Marcus's estimates of profit make sense, but 50 outdoor seats 365 days a year? No way anyone is sitting out there in the dead of winter!

[nobodyyoucare]

$400k to remodel the burger joint? You could start a restarurant from scratch for that price!

 

Usually Marcus's estimates of profit make sense, but 50 outdoor seats 365 days a year? No way anyone is sitting out there in the dead of winter!

A restaurant from scratch is often one million to several million. You have space heaters for outdoors these days. 

[KHenry14]

Personally, I think the name Standard Burger is a good one. And I think the restaurant concept isn't bad. Mostly because of the potato and shake bars. That makes them different and will get them noticed. I don't know whether there will be a strong objection to the price points, but there is a lot of places nationwide that are going that route, so I am optimistic that there wont be too much resistance.

 

In the short term, this wont be a big money maker for Marcus, but if it works he could expand pretty easily.

[caligirl50]

Also, please remember that this store is located on Staten Island.  It is not upscale by any stretch.  It was called, at one time, the toilet bowl of the tri-state area.  There is money and nice residential areas but it is not Manhattan nor even Brooklyn in terms of progressiveness. Too bad it wasn't located somewhere else.

[Lola16]

Also, please remember that this store is located on Staten Island.  It is not upscale by any stretch.  It was called, at one time, the toilet bowl of the tri-state area.  There is money and nice residential areas but it is not Manhattan nor even Brooklyn in terms of progressiveness. Too bad it wasn't located somewhere else.

I never heard it called toilet bowl!  Landfill maybe..

[Shibori]

You have space heaters for outdoors these days.

I live in Southwestern PA, hardly the Arctic tundra, and no amount of space heaters would get people to eat outside at a fast casual burger place from November through March (at a minimum). I can't imagine the idea would ever even occur to owners or diners here. Sweater weather maybe, if you were at a place you could sit and drink with table service. But coat weather at a burger place where you order at the counter? No way. We have a locally owned Mexican place here with an awesome outdoor patio that's packed in the summer (and has space heaters for chilly nights), and the first day they had it open this season was Cinco de Mayo, and even then only a few people actually stayed out there for longer than a smoke break.

[selhars]

On this episode specifically, I don't think being the only place that sells yucca fries and red velvet cake shakes is going to get them the business Marcus thinks it will. In fact, $5.00 for a shake seems outrageous, and I may be addicted to ice cream (the first step is admitting it, and I refuse). I would, however, pay $7.00 for a good burger.

The reason being for shuler's is bbq joints like that are pretty common. It would be hard to make it work. A burger joint offering a few unique dishes is on the other hand something that can be made a chain.

 

Not to disagree but....... BBQ joints ARE NOT pretty common in MOST of the country. Northeast and Mid-Atlantic where I'm from...we'd KILL for a place like Schuler's. And those are two MAJOR populated areas of the country. Went to Arizona and California (Phoenix and LA)....NO good BBQ place close by, that I knew of anyway.

 

Also, In my region "Five Guys" was a started here, and we have a place called Elevation Burger, multiple locations. I'm not saying that in that area of Staten Island, and the NY area......there's not room to grow that burger place.....But what I saw in that episode ...menu change OR NOT....didn't make me what to try out the food, at all.

 

I've NEVER understood why a restaurant would go on TV (Kitchen Nightmares, Restaurant Impossible, whatever) and air their dirty secrets....a food place is one place, where if I see you don't know what you're doing...I'm out. Wouldn't eat there. Period.

 

I'm still amazed Marcus thought that small Greek chain in the Pittsburgh are was some great shakes. Although I could see how with tweaking -- it was already so successful in that area that it was an OK investment. The food looked like it sucked. BUT if that's all you know Greek food to be and it's the only game in town then, you don't know.

 

2) at least "elevation" makes one think of 'higher' things. Standard Burger...who the hell wants just a 'standard' anything. Standard to me doesn't imply GREAT burger.

 

Also, it's a bummer as a consumer to really think about commercial food margins (this and the cupcakes, too)! Go back to obscure manufacturing businesses, please!

 

^^ Yeah. That, too. (bold emphasis mine)

 

3)  For me also, this is the second episode in a row that was a dud. Not enough business sense, numbers, strategy...it was just blah.

MUCH as I was amazed by the Planet Popcorn, Marse Florists, and Dogworks episodes and owners...PLEASE, more of THOSE kinds of episodes...than these last two. Actually the PERFECT mix was the Mr. Green Tea episode. Sena Profit was good, also the pilot episdoe with the Car Cash brothers and the Athans motors.....even the bat company this season. But these last two.

 

MAYBE producers know they're the weakest episodes, sandwich them in between OTHER episodes is the smart thing to do as far as that goes.

 

4) Ditto, shibori. Space heater or not. Outside seating in NY November through March ....give me a break. I work in DC which has much more temperate WX than NY, and no one's eating outside in February, even with a space heater.

Edited June 10, 2015 by selhars

[camom]

 

Standard Burger...who the hell wants just a 'standard' anything. Standard to me doesn't imply GREAT burger.

 

I totally agree.  I thought for sure Marcus would want to change the name.

[nobodyyoucare]

Ever hear the expression "set the standard"? It means the best example. Hence the Standard Burger chain is the best burger chain.

 

Shuler's was an out of the way location with cheap food prices for buffet. It had to turn over high numbers of people in order to make a profit.

 

Most bbq buffet places like that to have that quality and price on their food unless they can go hundreds each day don't stay in business that long. Hence it's not something that you can expand easily. Location picking is very research intensive and getting people to become regulars is also very costly.

 

Hence I can see why Marcus didn't see it as a chain opportunity and concentrated on the biscuits. 

[caligirl50]

But where are those biscuits sold exactly????  I would love to know.

[nobodyyoucare]

http://crumbsbakery.myshopify.com/apps/store-locator

Supposedly also in grocery stores but that often will take a year or two after small regional tests. As is usual for getting products rolled out.

 

http://www.destination-bbq.com/shulers-bbq-latta-sc/has a review of shuler from jan. Reviews of the place are pretty positive.

 

Hulu Pl\us had some web exclusive clips. The standard burger one revealed the negotiation took over an hour and Marcus had no real idea of how much to put in. He also admits to being a deal junkie and that has got him into trouble.

 

One of the clips was for a business called FuelFood which is the next episode.