One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[dustylil]

And correct me if I'm wrong, Chris didn't live in california in the beginning

 

No he didn't. If I recall correctly, he spent some years after not attending/dropping out of Princeton riding his motorcycle through the US.

My goodness...could you imagine if chris all put together arrived in stars hollow when rory was a toddler and said rory should stay with me in hartford every other week? You think she would've said ok?

 

Probably not. She may have agreed to marry him though. As she had been waiting for him to grow up.

[shron17]

I think Lorelai would've hated him if he tried either. My goodness...could you imagine if chris all put together arrived in stars hollow when rory was a toddler and said rory should stay with me in hartford every other week? You think she would've said ok? she probably would've moved across country.

 

Honestly, I'd like to think that in these situations both parents would want to do whatever was best for the child.  This would mean the custodial parent being cooperative and flexible with visitation, the non-custodial parent being supportive but not disruptive in making demands, and both of them being supportive of the others role in their child's life.  So yes, I do believe if Chris had been supportive of Rory in figuring out visitation and child support Lorelai would have been willing to work it out.  I didn't see any evidence that Lorelai tried to keep Christopher away during the series.  And I don't think her reaction to his invitation to Rory in season 2 proves that--it was completely unplanned and out of the blue. It sounded to me as though Christopher was out in California from about the time he dropped out of college but details are vague.  It was clearly stated he'd never been to Stars Hollow until Rory was 16 so it sounds as though he wasn't around much.

Edited March 6, 2016 by shron17

[andromeda331]

I for one would loved to see Christopher grow up enough to be more supportive to Rory by the end of the series.

I hate Christopher. But I would have love to see that too. To grow up and be a better parent for Rory. To 

put her first.

[AllyB]

Sadly they did not learn anything from Lorelai's flight.  They tried the same tactics with Rory when she was living in the pool house and had the same result sans illegitimate child.

I was talking about this with my husband last night and he pointed out that Rory was a dream come true to Emily and Richard. As a natural people pleaser she went along with almost everything they wanted and it really must have appeared from their perspective like Lorelai was the problem with their relationship not them. They treated Rory in a similar way to how they treated Lorelai and got very different results.

 

They didn't look past that to see that Rory was desperate for connection with her estranged grandparents and was willing to go along with them so often because of this. They also didn't see that as grandparents they were a part time presence in her life and Rory had respect and freedom from her mother in her daily life, so going along with their wishes every so often was a small sacrifice or even possible to enjoy because it was an occasional thing, not all of her life. To them Lorelai was needlessly obstreperous and Rory's easy compliance proved it.

When Rory came to live with them and they kept up the same shtick it backfired because suddenly there was no other outlet for Rory or Lorelai to provide a buffer.

Edited March 6, 2016 by AllyB

[Taryn74]

It's all good. I realize it is an unpopular opinion. lol And I haven't finished the series, but based on what I've seen so far, I couldn't imagine a scenario where she would've agreed to share custody with chris, even if he had come to her right after he dropped out of college. I don't think she wanted his help parenting but IA that she would've been receptive to him coming to town to visit and was fine with him calling. 

 

FWIW, I agree with you, and this has always been my stance regarding Lorelai and Christopher's relationship with Rory.  I believe Lorelai played lip service to wanting Chris to be more involved in Rory's life (in part because she knew he was too weak to really challenge her on it, so she could say whatever she wanted to and always look like the better person) but when it came down to it, if he had actually tried to she would have fought him.  Look at the way Lorelai acted in Bracebridge Dinner, when Chris wanted Rory to come spend a few days with him and Sherry over Christmas break.  She didn't even tell Rory about it until she was backed into a corner over it, and then gave some lame excuse about this being "her time with Rory"....what?  You have Rory 365 days a year, honey.  The real reason you don't want Rory to go over there is because you are jealous that Chris got his crap together for Sherry and not for you, and we all know it.

 

But anyway........yes, it is a very unpopular opinion LOL.

[txhorns79]

FWIW, I agree with you, and this has always been my stance regarding Lorelai and Christopher's relationship with Rory.  I believe Lorelai played lip service to wanting Chris to be more involved in Rory's life (in part because she knew he was too weak to really challenge her on it, so she could say whatever she wanted to and always look like the better person) but when it came down to it, if he had actually tried to she would have fought him.

 

I would agree that Lorelai would not have responded well to Chris being an active parent with Rory, or otherwise challenging her parenting decisions.  Lorelai did like being in control, and I don't doubt she would have been unhappy with anyone challenging her. 

[Kohola3]

....in part because she knew he was too weak to really challenge her on it, so she could say whatever she wanted to and always look like the better person...

Emily:  You were a charming boy.  A weak but charming boy.  And to be completely honest, I never thought much of you. (Of course, then she goes off on the "good breeding" route.)

 

I don't think he'd ever have put up a fight in a custody battle.   Even as an adult he had the maturity level of a boy and boys don't generally accept responsibility, even charming ones.  His answer to problems was to throw money at it.  Too bad the credit card was rejected after attempting to buy the biggest book in town when he finally showed up in Stars Hollow. If he hadn't inherited the fortune, he probably would have faded away again until it was time to claim a right to walk Rory down the aisle.

[amensisterfriend]

FWIW, I agree with you, and this has always been my stance regarding Lorelai and Christopher's relationship with Rory.  I believe Lorelai played lip service to wanting Chris to be more involved in Rory's life (in part because she knew he was too weak to really challenge her on it, so she could say whatever she wanted to and always look like the better person) but when it came down to it, if he had actually tried to she would have fought him.  Look at the way Lorelai acted in Bracebridge Dinner, when Chris wanted Rory to come spend a few days with him and Sherry over Christmas break.  She didn't even tell Rory about it until she was backed into a corner over it, and then gave some lame excuse about this being "her time with Rory"....what?  You have Rory 365 days a year, honey.  The real reason you don't want Rory to go over there is because you are jealous that Chris got his crap together for Sherry and not for you, and we all know it.

But anyway........yes, it is a very unpopular opinion LOL.

 

It's a UO that I share as well :) Christopher wanted to marry her. Lorelai was right to refuse, but the point is that Chris's first instinct was to try to be a permanent part of their lives, not to flee. Let me be clear here: Christopher was obviously inconsistent and hard to depend on over the years, and the fault for that is all his own, not Lorelai's. To be honest, the show ITSELF is inconsistent and hard to depend on when it comes to the depiction of Chris's actual involvement---or lack thereof---so this issue becomes even harder to debate than it should be! In one episode, you'll hear about his regular weekly call that he apparently "never misses." A couple of episodes later, depending on what the plot requires, you'll get a line about how they haven't heard from him in ages. I'm guessing that one opinion most of us can agree on is that AS-P is not necessarily a stickler for consistency and continuity :)

 

It's a complex situation, and not one that allows for Christopher to be dismissed as a total deadbeat, IM(U)O. Needless to say, he's certainly not some sort of hapless victim, either---as with most things in life, the real answer lies somewhere in between the two extremes.  I've known real deadbeats who have literally no financial or emotional involvement in their kids' lives. Chris is weak, immature, easily led off in a variety of wrong directions, but he did play SOME role in his child's life.

 

The thing is, Lorelai seemed to very much want to raise Rory on her own. Maybe she came to that conclusion after realizing that Christopher wouldn't step up and adjusted her expectations accordingly, or maybe Christopher started staying away because Lorelai---explicitly or otherwise---sent the message that he should. Most likely, it's a tangled combination of both. Christopher ABSOLUTELY could and should have done more than he did, but for me he can't just be cast neatly into the role of villain.

Edited March 6, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[amensisterfriend]

My UO is that I freakin love Lor and Chris!! I'm such a chemistry whore! It trumps all for me when it comes to shipping. This is fantasy . . . give me the romance! I'm on season 6 and just so not into Luke. The fact that she ends up with him in so depressing to me. If she was in a bigger town with better options, I don't buy that she would look his way. To me, it feels as if she had to be with luke because he's the only decent, single man around. They were great friends. There was no need to make them bed buddies. I was pretty amazed to find out they were so loved.

 

Heh---I've been part of this fandom forever and have long ago accepted that 98-ish% adore Luke/Lorelai as a couple, but part of me is still surprised as well :) I could wrap my mind around it far more easily if we had never actually gotten to see Luke and Lorelai together. Then it would be this tantalizing 'what if...?!' and feel like this sadly untapped potential, even for someone who's as relatively and unpopularly critical of bitter, joyless Luke as I am. But we did see them together for quite a while, and for me the lack of chemistry, compatibility, connection, commonality, communication and just basic happiness was glaring no matter how hard I tried to see otherwise. (Because I really DID want to fit in and love them like everyone else does!) 

 

I agree about the chemistry between Christopher and Lorelai, which I think can be mistakenly interpreted to mean 'evident physical attraction and nothing else.' And attraction is part of it, but for me it's more than that---they just seem genuinely happy in each other's presence, they're compatible, they seem to naturally GET each other, there's just this hint of that magical, indefinable SOMETHING that elevates friendship to the realm of something more...and which for me is conspicuously missing between Luke and Lorelai.  That doesn't mean I wanted to see Christopher and Lorelai end up together. I wanted Lorelai to end the series happily single :) But if we were supposed to buy Luke/Lorelai as endgame, I really wish there had been more joy, more connection, and maybe different casting choices, because for me LG just lights up around David Sutcliffe while she and Scott Patterson have less of that aforementioned chemistry than pretty much any onscreen couple I can think of. 

 

All just my very unpopular opinion :)  Dirtypop, we love hearing from first time viewers, so please keep us posted! 

Edited March 6, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Guest]

I think that the inconsistent and contradictory writing lets each of us see it how we want to see it. There's enough inconsistency that I could argue either side.

[dustylil]

To be honest, the show ITSELF is inconsistent and hard to depend on when it comes to the depiction of Chris's actual involvement---or lack thereof---

 

I thought from the very beginning we were supposed to view Christopher at least as a financial deadbeat. In the pilot episode

Christopher was  spoken of as a successful businessman living in California. Yet at no time was the issue raised - even at that first Friday Night Dinner - of what, if any, contribution he was making to enable Rory to attend Chilton.

[txhorns79]

I think that the inconsistent and contradictory writing lets each of us see it how we want to see it. There's enough inconsistency that I could argue either side.

 

It's true.  The show seemed very unsettled on what Christopher's role should be vis a vis Rory and Lorelai.  They wanted him to be a plausible love interest for Lorelai, but his actions made me question why it was that Lorelai would continue to harbor feelings for him.   

 

 

Yet at no time was the issue raised - even at that first Friday Night Dinner - of what, if any, contribution he was making to enable Rory to attend Chilton.

 

They may have had no idea what they wanted to do with the character at that point.  Also, if Lorelai has financial options other than Emily and Richard, it probably unnecessarily complicates the premise of the show. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by txhorns79

[dirtypop90]

But Lorelai had financial options (the gilmore and the haydens) and it was pretty clear to me that she didn't want to use them. She didn't want help from anyone. I don't believe she wanted anyone's money because it would come with strings, even with chris because, if a man is paying child support, he's going to get visitation. Taking money from others for rory meant she would have had to include them in rory's life, which is what she ended up having to do when she took the money for chilton.

 

 

 

Probably not. She may have agreed to marry him though. As she had been waiting for him to grow up.

So you agree she didn't want his help parenting? because if she did, why would she be against rory staying with chris half the time, if she wasn't apart the picture. Because he could've came back from princeton with a new love and not wanting her anymore, but wanting to set up a visitation schedule for rory. Whether she let rory go with him shouldn't be dependent on whether or not she was also going. That is what makes this situation so weird. Lorelai was waiting on chris to get it together so they can be a family ok. But what if chris completed college, started a job and just wanted his kid?

 

This reminds me of the scene in presenting lorelai gilmore where lorelai says she wouldn't mind if chris came over more now that he's gotten his life together. That was just so odd! Typically, when the non-custodial parent gets it together, stable job, housing etc., the parents will discuss 1. financial support and 2. having the child spent some time, like on the weekends, at the non-custodial parents house. Lorelai noted that boston wasn't too far. Rory could take the train on the weekends. But instead, lorelai is offering him her couch to sleep on more often. It's so weird and unrealistic that visitation would be in the form of the non-custodial parent staying at the custodial parent's home every other week to spend time with the child. But I don't think Lorelai would've agreed to anything more than that.

 

Soooo much chem is the scene discussed above by the way :) But I still thought her offer was odd. she was pretty much saying, hey baby daddy stop by more often so we can have sex and you can play daddy. I say play daddy because chris wouldn't have been making in decisions in Lorelai's house.

 

Another UO, which I'm surprised is UO, Alexis is great as rory. She played one of the most adorable teens I've ever seen on tv. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by dirtypop90

[moonb]

 

It's true.  The show seemed very unsettled on what Christopher's role should be vis a vis Rory and Lorelai.  They wanted him to be a plausible love interest for Lorelai, but his actions made me question why it was that Lorelai would continue to harbor feelings for him.

 

Yeah, I noticed that Rory's attitude in TDDR when Chris first shows up is that of a child toward an absentee parent who periodically shows up, showers the child with gifts, and takes off again. She's excited and thrilled to see him, gives him all her attention, shows him off, does fun things like ride on his motorcycle...and then his card is declined. That isn't to say Rory didn't already know Chris for what he was - just that for the rest of the series, Rory is much more openly resigned to Chris being the unreliable guy who will never get himself together (Presenting Lorelai Gilmore).  It also implies that Lorelai and Rory must have made SOME semi-regular visits to Chris somewhere in the past...but again, inconsistent.

 

Lorelai gets more relaxed about Chris and Rory's relationship, such as it is, once Rory starts Yale and at least legally an adult (and after the Sherry and Gigi business). It's just in time for Rory's Chris-like qualities to come out, too - giving up on journalism so easily and all. I don't think Christopher has that kind of obvious influence on Rory, but it is an interesting parallel.

[dustylil]

It also implies that Lorelai and Rory must have made SOME semi-regular visits to Chris somewhere in the past...but again, inconsistent

 

I think it was made clear that Rory and Lorelai did see Christopher on occasion when Rory was growing up. It was also stated that Christopher showed up only about 50% of the time. So Rory was used to being disappointed by her father, long before he showed up in Stars Hollow.

It's just in time for Rory's Chris-like qualities to come out, too - giving up on journalism so easily and all. I don't think Christopher has that kind of obvious influence on Rory, but it is an interesting parallel

 

I certainly wasn't particularly enamoured of Rory's in the latter seasons of the series. However, I feel compelled to defend her here. I don't think Rory's several months of "sloth" can be compared to Christopher's roughly a decade  spent  finding himself. Her dropping out was followed by an epiphany and then by  a lengthy and  productive stint of college and career-focussed work. If she had followed his path, she would have just finished up her stint of sulking and  brooding :)

[photo fox]

Not to mention, Rory didn't have a kid and a baby-momma who could have used her support. When you become a parent, you no longer get a pass for putting your needs first, IMO.

[Breezy]

So.... I kind of hate Marty.

 

And I like Jess as a character, but I don't think that he should be endgame for Rory. 

 

And my favorite ships (for Rory) are Trory and Rogan (I know there are many Rogan fans, but there are many Rogan haters; I guess it's more of a controversial opinion.)  

[andromeda331]

In one episode, you'll hear about his regular weekly call that he apparently "never misses."

Except Christopher wasn't calling Rory to be a good dad, he was doing it to impress his girlfriend.

[shron17]

This reminds me of the scene in presenting lorelai gilmore where lorelai says she wouldn't mind if chris came over more now that he's gotten his life together. That was just so odd!

It's not so odd when you remember that several months earlier he was suggesting to Lorelai that they get married and get to know each other adults.  After she refused, they had the exchange below:

 

CHRISTOPHER: I’ve been looking for the one Lor, that elusive soul mate - I really have, I just believe it’s you, it’s always been you.

LORELAI: Chris come on.

CHRISTOPHER: Rory might be my only child.

LORELAI: That’s not true. If Tony Randall can crank one out in his seventies you have decades left to spawn.

CHRISTOPHER: No. I don’t know how much I miss Rory until I see her like this. It’s....it’s easier staying away.

LORELAI: No. Don’t stay away. Don’t. Rory needs her dad.

CHRISTOPHER: Or her pal right?

LORELAI: I think she’d take a combo

It doesn't seem so crazy to me that when Lorelai found he moved closer, she thought that he wanted to see more of both her and Rory, and work towards all of them becoming a family the way Chris said he wanted.  Instead, he must have changed his mind about Lorelai being the only one for him and was moving in with Sherry. 

 

In one episode, you'll hear about his regular weekly call that he apparently "never misses."

It was Sherry who said this, not Lorelai, Rory, or Christopher.  They did smile and nod when she said it but were obviously covering for him.  A few months earlier in Presenting Lorelai Gilmore Lorelai had to call information to get Chris's new phone number and didn't know he'd moved to Boston until she called it and asked where he was.

Edited March 6, 2016 by shron17

[dustylil]

Except Christopher wasn't calling Rory to be a good dad, he was doing it to impress his girlfriend

 

To say nothing of trying to impress his former girlfriend.

[dirtypop90]

It's not so odd when you remember that several months earlier he was suggesting to Lorelai that they get married and get to know each other adults.  After she refused, they had the exchange below:

 

.It doesn't seem so crazy to me that when Lorelai found he moved closer, she thought that he wanted to see more of both she and Rory, and work towards all of them being a family, the way he suggested.  Instead, he must have changed his mind about Lorelai being the only one for him and was moving in with Sherry. 

 

 

 

Here's my thing...not knowing what was coming in season 2, I thought that was a clear, final rejection from lorelai. They were not going to be a family, in of discussion. I didn't think lorelai had any interest in being married to him. She told him he was nuts and said they didn't even know each other as adults. So I was pretty surprised to see Lorelai flirting with him in season 2. Keep in mind, I binged watched GG, so I saw those eps for the first time in the same week lol so lorelai gave me whiplash. I certainly thought she was still attracted to him but I never thought she would seriously consider taking him up on his offer, even if he showed up later with a volvo. I thought she just wanted him around for rory, not her and rory.

Edited March 6, 2016 by dirtypop90

[shron17]

Here's my thing...not knowing what was coming in season 2, I thought that was a clear, final rejection from lorelai. They were not going to be a family, in of discussion.

I didn't see it as a final rejection, especially not after Lorelai told Rory "he has a long way to go before he's ready to take us on full time."  But also because I think it is crazy to drop in for a visit, sleep with Lorelai, and then get up the next day and expect her to commit to him without any further discussion.  Lorelai was right--they didn't know each as adults.  Regardless of whatever visits they had it was his first time visiting their house. Lorelai told Sookie he calls "maybe" once a week and presumably talked more to Rory.  The first time I saw Presenting Lorelai Gilmore I was just as surprised as Lorelai that Chris had moved on after all the things he said to her in Christopher Returns, and I liked him much less.  No wonder if Lorelai felt she couldn't take what he said seriously.

 

I do see why Christopher would take it as a final rejection, but given Lorelai's reason was "we don't know each other adults" I was surprised he didn't call at some point and ask if they could talk about it more, even to figure how they could get to a more positive, hopeful place about his future with Lorelai, if that was what he really wanted.  It seemed to me that even though Chris said he wanted all of them to be a family he wasn't willing to put in the time and necessary work on himself that would allow that to happen. Lorelai was clearly upset that he'd lied about his business success to everyone and had asked Rory to lie to Lorelai for him but never indicated he couldn't have a second (or even third) chance.

Edited March 6, 2016 by shron17

[dustylil]

I didn't see it as a clear rejection from Lorelai either. Particularly a bit later in the scene between Rory and Lorelai that shron17  quoted when the two are tidying up after Christopher's departure.

RORY: I still think there was a little something different.

LORELAI: Maybe you’re right.

RORY: Really?

LORELAI: It would be nice.

RORY: Yeah it would

LORELAI: I’ll tell you what, uh, let’s not put all the blankets away just yet.

RORY: Really?

LORELAI: You never know.

 

Look at the way Lorelai acted in Bracebridge Dinner, when Chris wanted Rory to come spend a few days with him and Sherry over Christmas break.  She didn't even tell Rory about it until she was backed into a corner over it, and then gave some lame excuse about this being "her time with Rory"....what?  You have Rory 365 days a year, honey.  The real reason you don't want Rory to go over there is because you are jealous that Chris got his crap together for Sherry and not for you, and we all know it

 

Not that I have ever been in this position, but if the feckless father of my child suddenly decided after seventeen years - seventeen! -  that he suddenly wanted to spend part of my favourite time of year with her, I would see no reason to magnanimous about it. Frankly, I would let him stew for a while. And in the end Lorelai allowed Rory to decide  - as well she should have.

Edited March 7, 2016 by dustylil

[dirtypop90]

^^ I'm not saying Lorelai was wrong to reject Chris, I'm saying I see why Chris would see it as a final rejection. So why wouldn't he move on? Chris didn't hear her lines to rory. All Lorelai said to Chris was no to them getting married, but he should come around for rory. And Lorelai moved on with Max.

 

In the final scene with rory, I didn't think she was leaving the idea of her and chris open. I thought she was explaining to rory why it wouldn't work for them as a family, but not closing the door on him coming around to spend time with rory. I didn't think she took chris's offer seriously, at all. And I totally think she was right not to. I was just confused as to why a 9-5 and a volvo would have her coming on to him a few months later. I don't think the show did a good job of actually showing that lorelai was waiting for chris. they just told us that in "it should've been lorelai" and expected us to accept it. 

 

Lorelai wouldn't have been happy with rory spending time with chris and another woman during any time of the year.

Edited March 7, 2016 by dirtypop90

[txhorns79]

Not that I have ever been in this position, but if the feckless father of my child suddenly decided after seventeen years - seventeen! -  that he suddenly wanted to spend part of my favorite time of year with her, I would see no reason to magnanimous about it. Frankly, I would let him stew for a while. And in the end Lorelai allowed Rory to decide  - as well she should have.

 

Wouldn't letting the father stew just end up punishing the kid?  I generally liked Lorelai's attitude towards Chris.  She recognized he wasn't a great parent, but she didn't try to harm his relationship with Rory as a backwards way of trying to punish him.   

Edited March 7, 2016 by txhorns79

[clack]

The aborted Marty storyline was the great missed opportunity of Rory's college years.

The elements were all in place . The decent guy who, despite harboring hopes for more, gets "friend-zoned", but reconciles himself to it. Just hanging out with the girl he loves is enough for now, and Rory, for her part, is happy to have found a sort of male Lane -- a truly sympathetic companion, in contrast to the often abrasive, competitive friendship she has with Paris.

Until, that is, comes along an exemplar of all that Marty resents : the arrogant, "bad boy" rich kid. Marty is best friend freshman year, sophomore year Rory is moving in more expansive, rarified circles, eating in restaurants with Logan's circle while Marty now dines alone in the student cafeteria. Rory trying half-heartedly to fit Marty into her new social circle. Marty eventually fading out from her daily life.

This situation was seemingly being set-up, but was never fully developed, for whatever reason ( actor availability?) Anyway, if it had been developed, it would have added some needed emotional and dramatic depth to Rory's rather thin season 4 and 5 Yale scenes -- thin that is in contrast to Chilton.

There is no good reason for the decline in emotional and dramatic richness that shows initially set in high school undergo when the characters move onto college, yet it happens over and over.

[dustylil]

My great wish for Marty would have been for him in early Season 6 to have come to the poolhouse and say to Rory, "What the hell is the matter with you?". They would have a series of discussions on life, ambitions and expectations  and she would then decide to return to Yale for the fall semester. Come September he would inform her that he was transferring to Stanford for his junior and senior years.

And we viewers would have been spared the debacle that was Season 7 Marty.

[clack]

Season 7 Marty was another lost opportunity.

It's not uncommon for people who were friends as freshman to not socialize at all with each other by senior year. Better writing might have explored in a more relatable way the awkwardness involved when these former friends encounter each other -- especially when there is guilt and hurt feelings involved. Instead we got a totally implausible, stupid, character-assassinating plot line.

However, that's not an UO. This is, though : I never bought that Rory and Paris would have remained friends throughout their Yale years. At Chilton, they were the two smartest, most ambitious students -- I can see them being drawn to each other. At Yale, there were a thousand just as smart and driven.

[amensisterfriend]

I absolutely love Jess's S6 appearances---like to the point where those two appearances of his are on the VERY short list of reasons why I'd feel those DVDs are worth owning and a major factor in why I'd be apt to save them over my S5 DVDs if my apartment were on fire :) But my UO is that I actually don't like his S4 appearances much. They somehow just felt too melodramatic to be poignant for me---he and Rory literally running all over town before he bursts out with a declaration of love, him showing up to her dorm room to ask her to leave with him despite the fact that they haven't even spoken...etc. The comparatively more subtle S6 scenes were far more effective and in character for me. And while I know we're supposed to think of it as a sign of growth and even gratitude towards Luke that Jess walks his mom down the aisle, that does nothing to touch my Liz-loathing heart, and I couldn't have cared less if he had decided he wasn't comfortable doing it. So as glad as I was to see him again in S6, I don't really share the popular opinion that I was happy when he popped up in S4. But maybe that can be attributed to my irrational dislike of his S4 hair :) 

Edited March 8, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[dustylil]

And while I know we're supposed to think of it as a sign of growth and even gratitude towards Luke that Jess walks his mom down the aisle, that does nothing to touch my Liz-loathing heart, and I couldn't have cared less if he had decided he wasn't comfortable doing it

 

I feel the same way. And really, since this was her fourth time down the aisle, I figured she could find her way there by herself.

[Guest]

I feel the same way. And really, since this was her fourth time down the aisle, I figured she could find her way there by herself.

 

You are giving Liz far more credit for intelligence than the evidence would suggest. ;)

[Breezy]

I think people are awfully critical of Logan bc he comes from money but considering the family he was raised in, I think he is well adjusted.

Yes he did crazy stunts, but he's young.

And yes, he made mistakes (Including that business deal) but every green businessman makes some sort of mistake like that. And while i think going to Vegas and avoiding his father's calls (I feel like that was bc he wanted to see if he could handle it without running to his dad, so j think the it was a good attempt) wasn't the best plan but I've seen grown men who were in similar situations who handled it much worse (remember he's like 23-5). And not to mention, he got over that pretty quickly considering (esp for someone his age). I also admire the fact that he left his father's company and started on his own.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Breezy

[Breezy]

I think ppl should give him a break for the bridesmaid thing- he's never really been in a serious relationship (I think his mom was more serious abt that Fallon girl thing than he was) and he hasn't had many good role models in the relationship department (honor and josh are his only role models for relationships) so I could see how he could think that they were legitimately broken up.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Breezy

[Breezy]

I honestly think that the only mistakes in terms of writing that were made in season 7 was the whole proposal thing. The thing is the arc/trajectory that Logan and Rory were on seasons 5-7 (minus the proposal stuff) was going towards the development of a more serious relationship that keeps on building and growing. In terms of relationships, they seemed like they were on the path to marriage. However, I think the writers were desperate to please the masses with the ''men are pigs" and "you don't need a man" philosophy, they had to Rory graduate and go off into the world as a strong independent woman. Think about- Logan knew her very well, so I think it was very out of character for him to propose like that knowing that it would freak Rory out. And yes a proposal should be a big gesture, but I think it was out of character for it to be so public knowing how she would feel about this type of thing. And I also think it was too big of a jump in terms of character growth when you consider that about two and half years prior (in the shows universe) he wasn't even going to initiate a no strings attached relationship (and only did so at Rory's lead-which I thought was very classy and respectful). i also think that they wanted a surprise, bittersweet ending.

[Aloeonatable]

 

I think ppl should give him a break for the bridesmaid thing- he's never really been in a serious relationship (I think his mom was more serious abt that Fallon girl thing than he was) and he hasn't had many good role models in the relationship department (honor and josh are his only role models for relationships) so I could see how he could think that they were legitimately broken up.

IMO, he should have confirmed with Rory that they were not longer exclusive. I don't blame him entirely, because Rory never said anything to him either, but they argued and to me that doesn't mean they were no longer going to see each other. I also loathed the way he described the bridesmaids when he was trying to rationalize his behavior to Rory. 

[brightside]

IMO, he should have confirmed with Rory that they were not longer exclusive. I don't blame him entirely, because Rory never said anything to him either, but they argued and to me that doesn't mean they were no longer going to see each other. I also loathed the way he described the bridesmaids when he was trying to rationalize his behavior to Rory. 

 

To me, the way de described them is the worst part of the whole thing. I'm totally with you on that.

 

But honestly, I think of the conclusions he and Rory drew from a huge fight that ends with her refusing to leave with him and money thrown on the table, followed by weeks of not talking, Rory's is the crazier one. How do you establish a "break" or separation without a conversation about what that means? Because even that could be interpreted as seeing other people for a bit unless there had been a conversation about what it means. Assuming a break up isn't the best way to go, but honestly...people to break up like that a lot. People do just totally ghost out of relationships. It's a terrible thing to do, but people do it. 

 

I thought both of their perspectives were completely valid because of this. Logan honestly didn't think he was cheating, he wasn't doing anything wrong based on what he thought/knew to be true. However, of course Rory had the right to be hurt and upset by it. If she couldn't forgive him, she shouldn't have gone back to his place with him--rather than going back and then punishing him. I hated her in those episodes. Forgive him or don't, but don't ignore him and act like a child.

[dustylil]

I thought Logan - based on his understanding of where he stood with Rory - was  within his rights to do whatever he wanted with the bridesmaids.  That said, I was appalled at how he seemed to view these assignations and the women involved. These were friends of his sister as I recall and young women he had known for some time. Yet he seemed to give them as little thought as if they had been ordered up from a hotel entertainment menu.

After Rory got over her hurt and anger by his behaviour, she would have done well to think over Logan's attitude toward  women.

 

As to Rory herself, infidelity as she saw it, only seemed to bother her when she was the injured party. So I had little sympathy for her. Had she expressed any recognition or understanding of the pain her own conduct had caused Lindsay about a year and a half earlier then I have felt differently. But as has been commented previously, empathy was not Rory's strong suit.

[txhorns79]

I thought Logan - based on his understanding of where he stood with Rory - was  within his rights to do whatever he wanted with the bridesmaids.That said, I was appalled at how he seemed to view these assignations and the women involved.  These were friends of his sister as I recall and young women he had known for some time. Yet he seemed to give them as little thought as if they had been ordered up from a hotel entertainment menu.

 

I don't remember the episode exactly, but were any of the bridesmaids despondent over how Logan had treated them?  I don't remember any of them complaining he was cruel, or rude to them.  If Logan was unattached, and they all want to have consensual casual sex with one another, what does it matter to a third party?               

Edited March 12, 2016 by txhorns79

[snarktini]

For awhile now I've read the comments about Luke's curmudgeonliness and didn't fully see it. I've always had a bit of rose colored glasses when it comes to him -- after all, I come from a long line of anti-social misanthropes -- so he seemed cranky but not unpleasant on balance. But DAMN I just caught a A Vineyard Valentine and I wanted to punch him.

[LegalParrot81]

 

I don't remember the episode exactly, but were any of the bridesmaids despondent over how Logan had treated them?

 

I just watched that particular episode.  Nope, none of the bridesmaids were the least despondent.  They were all "fun time, no ties" about it.

[dustylil]

LegalParrot81, I never suggested they were despondent, simply disposable.

[txhorns79]

They were all "fun time, no ties" about it.

 

Indeed.  If both Logan and the women he had slept with viewed the experience as a casual encounter without any strings, I can't imagine we are supposed to judge the parties more harshly.  That was my point in noting that there was nothing to suggest Logan had treated the women badly, or that they were somehow upset over what had happened.  Now I totally understand why Rory might have been upset, as Logan shouldn't have thrown her into a situation like that without a warning.  Otherwise, that's generally how casual sex is supposed to work.   

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

For me the casual sex was not the issue, it was referring to them by such loving nicknames as "4 Nose Jobs" and "Bulimia" (I might be reaching on that second one, been awhile since I saw the episode). He also calls them vipers for telling her, even though they weren't malicious at all. Plus when he tried to convince Rory to come to the rehearsal dinner he disparaged every guest to be attending, including the bridesmaids.

[txhorns79]

He also calls them vipers for telling her, even though they weren't malicious at all.

 

Eh, it's a probably a little malicious to tell Logan's date that you have slept with him. 

[Aloeonatable]

I think the issue isn't that the bridesmaids and Logan had consensual, casual sex, but that Logan seemed to fall back into that life so easily and quickly. A few weeks had passed, maybe a month, and Logan was having sex with women he hardly cared about. 

[andromeda331]

I have a problem with Logan about the whole thing. After the fight he runs back to his old life very fast,

he even manages to sleep with his sister's entire bridal party in the span of what a month? To girls he clearly

doesn't care about or even like.  Then gets mad at them when they told Rory, calling them vipers while

defending what he did because in his mind they were broken up. Well, if it was no big deal why didn't

Logan tell Rory before they arrived at the wedding? I don't have a problem with the girls telling Rory

and I don't think it was malicious. They each clearly knew they had all recently slept with Logan,

they had no reason to think Rory didn't know and wasn't in a similar casual relationship with Logan

because he had just been hooking up with all of them. To me it showed how crappy Logan treats girls

whether he's casually dating or in a real relationship.   

[timimouse]

So I would like some clarification on something. This is more a nitpick than unpopular opinion but I need the brilliant minds of this forum to help me understand this.

Firstly, I'm not American, so I'm not totally versed on how GPAs are calculated... especially at the high school level. I remember Rory entering Chilton in the middle of the year and struggling a bit.. even getting a D on Max's test. Then in their senior year, Paris gets an A- on a chemistry test I believe and starts freaking out because she's "never gotten anything less than an A". If that's the case, how did Rory become Valedictorian? It just seems to me that Paris was a far better student and much more rounded. Yes, I understand she's socially awkward but I don't think that plays a part in the Valedictory selection.....

So could somebody explain this to me please?

[chessiegal]

So I would like some clarification on something. This is more a nitpick than unpopular opinion but I need the brilliant minds of this forum to help me understand this.

Firstly, I'm not American, so I'm not totally versed on how GPAs are calculated... especially at the high school level. I remember Rory entering Chilton in the middle of the year and struggling a bit.. even getting a D on Max's test. Then in their senior year, Paris gets an A- on a chemistry test I believe and starts freaking out because she's "never gotten anything less than an A". If that's the case, how did Rory become Valedictorian? It just seems to me that Paris was a far better student and much more rounded. Yes, I understand she's socially awkward but I don't think that plays a part in the Valedictory selection.....

So could somebody explain this to me please?

Because that's the way ASP wanted it. Best to suspend disbelief so, so often with this show.

[brightside]

So I would like some clarification on something. This is more a nitpick than unpopular opinion but I need the brilliant minds of this forum to help me understand this.

Firstly, I'm not American, so I'm not totally versed on how GPAs are calculated... especially at the high school level. I remember Rory entering Chilton in the middle of the year and struggling a bit.. even getting a D on Max's test. Then in their senior year, Paris gets an A- on a chemistry test I believe and starts freaking out because she's "never gotten anything less than an A". If that's the case, how did Rory become Valedictorian? It just seems to me that Paris was a far better student and much more rounded. Yes, I understand she's socially awkward but I don't think that plays a part in the Valedictory selection.....

So could somebody explain this to me please?

 

So if Valedictorian at Chilton is based only on ranking (some schools have voting or something, but I think most prep schools are just based on GPA) the final grade in the class is what is calculated to make the GPA, not individual assignments. And it was made clear that Chilton offered extra credit and that Rory did it--so she could have made up for the D that way. Basically to calculate a GPA, each letter grade is given a number, usually on a 4-point scale, (an A+ is a 4.0 and an F is 0.0) then you take the average score and that's your GPA. The higher, the better. Sometimes the schools have a different system for what a 4.0 is (at my school 4.0 was an A and an A+ got you 4.25).

 

Most of the time AP classes are weighted (an A is worth 5.0 instead of 4.0) so if Rory took more AP classes or something, her GPA would be higher because it is still out of 4. My class Valedictorian had a 5.25 GPA on a 4-point scale, for example. At my school, the weighed classes became a real issue because the top students would do things like drop out of music classes (where there are no APs) so they wouldn't have a 4 point class factored into their GPA.

 

Basically, GPAs can be complicated and vary by school. For this reason, when your apply to college, high schools send a packet/information sheet to explain their methodology to the admissions office.

Edited March 14, 2016 by brightside

[dustylil]

timimouse, I am not an American either but a point of clarification - Rory did not enter Chilton in the middle of the school year. She entered a few weeks into it. So not too many classes, projects, tests, etc. would have taken place by that point in time.