One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[stan4]

Aw, come on.

In popular culture, movies, tv, regular life, and even on this show, hooking up with someone at weddings is de rigueur.

[Kohola3]

Hooking up, as in pairing up? Or hooking up as in humping?  Because the weddings I go to do not have the facilities for the second.

[marineg]

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Hooking up, as in pairing up? Or hooking up as in humping?  Because the weddings I go to do not have the facilities for the second.

Maybe not like having sex with your parents right outside the door, but a little making out at a wedding is not completely outrageous. It is well known that weddings "bring people together".

[Kohola3]

3 hours ago, marineg said:

It is well known that weddings "bring people together".

Apparently I missed that announcement because it is definitely not "well known" at any of the weddings I have attended in the past several years.  Maybe they hook up later but I have never once seen anyone making out at weddings.

[stan4]

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Apparently I missed that announcement because it is definitely not "well known" at any of the weddings I have attended in the past several years.  Maybe they hook up later but I have never once seen anyone making out at weddings.

It's a cliche.

In lots of movies, shows, etc.

 

Never done it myself, more's the pity.

[marineg]

I meant more in a way that it's a "good" place to meet people or whatever.

[readster]

9 hours ago, stan4 said:

It's a cliche.

In lots of movies, shows, etc.

 

Never done it myself, more's the pity.

My wife's and I's wedding lead to two of our friends getting together, also getting married with 3 kids and another friend of ours getting baby #2 as a result. Never happened to me at all the weddings I attended from 21 to 27. 

[marineg]

3 hours ago, readster said:

My wife's and I's wedding lead to two of our friends getting together, also getting married with 3 kids and another friend of ours getting baby #2 as a result. Never happened to me at all the weddings I attended from 21 to 27. 

Damn. That must have been a good wedding!

[readster]

9 hours ago, marineg said:

Damn. That must have been a good wedding!

Hey, we are here 9 years later and she hasn't killed me yet. 

[marineg]

When Rory lives at Emily and Richard's and she has a talk about jobs with them. Richard says "You're low on money and I know you'd prefer to earn it rather than be given it - you're a Gilmore." 

When? When? When in the world of GG has she worked for it? I'm not criticising. I didn't personally pay for my college tuition, because I had amazing parents who sacrificed so I could go to college. And she is supposedly a good student (even if a terrible journalist, which adds to my criticism.)

What I criticise is the lack of realisation that she has never worked for anything. She got into Yale because her grandpa is an alumnus got her an interview with the Dean. And because her grandparents paid for her Chilton tuition. And then went on to pay for her Yale tuition. Her grandparents not only once, but twice refurnished her living quarters (Yale and the pool house). They paid for her second car. And Dean built her her first. She got the job of editor of the Year Daily News not by real work and a real election like in the real world, but because everyone liked her. She got an internship in a real newspaper because of her boyfriend's dad. And then again when he used his connections to introduce her to blogging guy for whom she wrote some articles her senior year. Who then gave her the job on the campaign trail with Obama. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, marineg said:

When Rory lives at Emily and Richard's and she has a talk about jobs with them. Richard says "You're low on money and I know you'd prefer to earn it rather than be given it - you're a Gilmore." 

When? When? When in the world of GG has she worked for it? I'm not criticising. I didn't personally pay for my college tuition, because I had amazing parents who sacrificed so I could go to college. And she is supposedly a good student (even if a terrible journalist, which adds to my criticism.)

What I criticise is the lack of realisation that she has never worked for anything. She got into Yale because her grandpa is an alumnus got her an interview with the Dean. And because her grandparents paid for her Chilton tuition. And then went on to pay for her Yale tuition. Her grandparents not only once, but twice refurnished her living quarters (Yale and the pool house). They paid for her second car. And Dean built her her first. She got the job of editor of the Year Daily News not by real work and a real election like in the real world, but because everyone liked her. She got an internship in a real newspaper because of her boyfriend's dad. And then again when he used his connections to introduce her to blogging guy for whom she wrote some articles her senior year. Who then gave her the job on the campaign trail with Obama. 

She sometimes worked at the book store. She did have that work study job at the café that she didn't do very well.   But, yeah, she backpacked through Europe her summer after graduation which is a great time to make some money, and she went to Europe with Emily the whole next summer.   My parents paid for the bulk of my tuition, but I worked my last two years of high school and summers in between college.  I also had a work study job, but not very many hours because hours were assigned by need.  And I practically had a full-time job (32 hours/week) the first semester of my senior year.  and, then, of course, I had loans I had to pay off after grad.  I don't know if Rory ever realized how good she had it.  Probably not, since with the exception of Marty, she hung out with kids even better off than her in college.

Actually, now that I think of it, I guess I should point out, that she did agree to pay her grandparents back her Yale money.  I don't know if Chris gave them the money for what they had paid prior to him taking over the payments, or if she paid back those first couple of years.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Katy M

[marineg]

35 minutes ago, Katy M said:

She sometimes worked at the book store. She did have that work study job at the café that she didn't do very well.   But, yeah, she backpacked through Europe her summer after graduation which is a great time to make some money, and she went to Europe with Emily the whole next summer.   My parents paid for the bulk of my tuition, but I worked my last two years of high school and summers in between college.  I also had a work study job, but not very many hours because hours were assigned by need.  And I practically had a full-time job (32 hours/week) the first semester of my senior year.  and, then, of course, I had loans I had to pay off after grad.  I don't know if Rory ever realized how good she had it.  Probably not, since with the exception of Marty, she hung out with kids even better off than her in college.

Actually, now that I think of it, I guess I should point out, that she did agree to pay her grandparents back her Yale money.  I don't know if Chris gave them the money for what they had paid prior to him taking over the payments, or if she paid back those first couple of years.

 

She did offer, but first of all, Chris paid for at least the rest as mentioned, and as we saw in the revival from hell, Rory seems to have been struggling for the past 10 years after graduation, with writing articles here and there. So maybe she didn't have saved enough to pay back 3 years of Yale tuition...

Now that we're talking about it, she was struggling in the revival, but not enough to not go to London on a day's notice, or to wonder around with Logan and his clique. Or to go to NYC and stay in a very nice hotel. In NYC...

 

 

 

Oh and I forgot to mention that she got the job at the DAR from her grandma, after they said that she would not like to be given things... Right....

And 300 hours of community service in 6 months is far from a full-time job... which was her excuse for not getting a job.

Edited May 30, 2018 by marineg

[chessiegal]

I don't think that Richard meant Rory had worked for what she got - I took it as a statement that Gilmores always worked for what they got. He was projecting his view of the Gilmore work ethic onto her.

[Crs97]

When Christopher hit his inheritance from his aunt, did he say something about offering money to Rory?  I assumed he handed her a good chunk of change that allows her to be pretty flighty these past ten years between graduation and the movies.

[marineg]

2 hours ago, chessiegal said:

I don't think that Richard meant Rory had worked for what she got - I took it as a statement that Gilmores always worked for what they got. He was projecting his view of the Gilmore work ethic onto her.

Maybe, but watching the scene, it feels more like a "we're all hard workers in this family and nothing is ever handed to us" kind of thing. Even though Rory literally always is, and Emily and Richard are rich because of inheritances and not his work as an insurance VP.

 

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

When Christopher hit his inheritance from his aunt, did he say something about offering money to Rory?  I assumed he handed her a good chunk of change that allows her to be pretty flighty these past ten years between graduation and the movies.

He talked about doing something for Rory and Lorelai since he set up GG with school/college/wedding/divorce money. And Rory took him up on it and had him pay for Yale for the last 3 semesters. But there are no mentions of him actually giving her money. Like when she had nowhere to live and moved in with Logan, or when she left Logan's and went to the Paris/Doyle deathtrap.

[stan4]

2 hours ago, marineg said:

Maybe, but watching the scene, it feels more like a "we're all hard workers in this family and nothing is ever handed to us" kind of thing. Even though Rory literally always is, and Emily and Richard are rich because of inheritances and not his work as an insurance VP.

 

He talked about doing something for Rory and Lorelai since he set up GG with school/college/wedding/divorce money. And Rory took him up on it and had him pay for Yale for the last 3 semesters. But there are no mentions of him actually giving her money. Like when she had nowhere to live and moved in with Logan, or when she left Logan's and went to the Paris/Doyle deathtrap.

Yup.  And yup.

The Gilmores always had an overinflated sense of how hard they worked or what kind of people they were. 

 

 It doesn't seem like Chris and would have paid back Richard because he was sending the checks directly to the school.

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, chessiegal said:

I don't think that Richard meant Rory had worked for what she got - I took it as a statement that Gilmores always worked for what they got. He was projecting his view of the Gilmore work ethic onto her.

That's probably what he meant but it never fails to crack me up. Out of the four Gilmores Rory worked the least and had zero work ethic. Yes, she was excellent when it came to school work and papers. But that was really it. Richard, Emily and Lorelai all worked so much more and had a better work ethic.  Richard worked for decades in insurance, Emily had a million different committees and fundraisers that kept her busy, Lorelai worked her way up from a maid to running the inn. None of that rubbed off on Rory. She always surprised to find she needs to do more. She didn't bother to find out until Paris told her that she needed to do more to get in to Harvard. Why didn't she find that out when she got into Chilton. For someone who researches so much she never bothered to find that out. Why didn't she know? Why wasn't she going into the guidance counselor to find out all she needs to do for Harvard. Even with that she doesn't do anything but join the newspaper. Why didn't she join more activities? Volunteer for more charity work? She goes to Yale and once again doesn't do anything beyond classes and the newspaper. Why wasn't she trying to intern at a newspaper? A TV station? A magazine? Anything? Her mother got her GED and then went back to night school to take business classes. Lorelai was willing to do that to do her job better and there might have been a degree needed with her position (I know they never brought it up and Mia loved her but it kind of also makes sense she'd need to learning business for a manager job). Lorelai went to that seminar with Sookie. Sure it ended up being a bust but she went because she might learn something she might need. But we never see Rory doing anything to work towards her goal she doesn't even try to come up with good articles to and try. Lane works, Dean works, Jess worked, but Rory doesn't. Why not? She's never wanted to earn money to buy books? To by a car?  

[marineg]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That's probably what he meant but it never fails to crack me up. Out of the four Gilmores Rory worked the least and had zero work ethic. Yes, she was excellent when it came to school work and papers. But that was really it. Richard, Emily and Lorelai all worked so much more and had a better work ethic.  Richard worked for decades in insurance, Emily had a million different committees and fundraisers that kept her busy, Lorelai worked her way up from a maid to running the inn. None of that rubbed off on Rory. She always surprised to find she needs to do more. She didn't bother to find out until Paris told her that she needed to do more to get in to Harvard. Why didn't she find that out when she got into Chilton. For someone who researches so much she never bothered to find that out. Why didn't she know? Why wasn't she going into the guidance counselor to find out all she needs to do for Harvard. Even with that she doesn't do anything but join the newspaper. Why didn't she join more activities? Volunteer for more charity work? She goes to Yale and once again doesn't do anything beyond classes and the newspaper. Why wasn't she trying to intern at a newspaper? A TV station? A magazine? Anything? Her mother got her GED and then went back to night school to take business classes. Lorelai was willing to do that to do her job better and there might have been a degree needed with her position (I know they never brought it up and Mia loved her but it kind of also makes sense she'd need to learning business for a manager job). Lorelai went to that seminar with Sookie. Sure it ended up being a bust but she went because she might learn something she might need. But we never see Rory doing anything to work towards her goal she doesn't even try to come up with good articles to and try. Lane works, Dean works, Jess worked, but Rory doesn't. Why not? She's never wanted to earn money to buy books? To by a car?  

- That always pisses me off. Especially because everyone sees Rory as this perfect overachiever who never does any wrong, who is overanalysing this, always over-prepared...

- And Harvard had always been her dream. They tell us again and again that since she was 2, she was groomed by her mother, and "groomed" herself to be the perfect little Harvard student. She gets new Harvard catalogues every time they come out, which surprises Lorelai since she "knows everything already". When you work your way towards something, you know the basics like, get some freaking extracurricular activities. And also, she always wanted to be a journalist, and probably waited months to get into Chilton. Didn't she do some research? Why didn't she know a thing about the Franklin?

- In the real world, Lorelai would grossly be under-qualified to have that job. Especially since they imply it's some sort of famous inn in Connecticut.

- Why would Rory need to work? She had people pay for everything. I personally had people pay for my everything in college, but I still did some work here and there to earn a bit, I did some volunteering, etc.

[stan4]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

. But we never see Rory doing anything to work towards her goal she doesn't even try to come up with good articles to and try. Lane works, Dean works, Jess worked, but Rory doesn't. Why not? She's never wanted to earn money to buy books? To by a car?  

Because...to misquote The Lego Movie, she's "the special."

 

Agree with your entire post that it makes no sense that Rory blah blah blahs about all her goals and then does literally ZERO to achieve them (outside of following the conveyor belt of academic activity).

[marineg]

48 minutes ago, stan4 said:

Because...to misquote The Lego Movie, she's "the special."

I posted a link in a few posts earlier, I posted a link to an article about that. Worth a read.

Edited May 31, 2018 by marineg

[junienmomo]

21 hours ago, marineg said:

I posted a link in a few posts earlier, I posted a link to an article about that. Worth a read.

That was a great article. Sorry I missed it earlier. The link is reposted below because it took me a while to find it. Love the comment about a potential long-term job at the end. 

Rory had an element of Lorelai’s success, namely work hard. She didn’t have Lorelai’s ability to be willing to do the unpleasant stuff; rather she laid out a plan of hard work at academics and everything else will follow. It did not help her to be constantly told that she was perfect and bound for success. What would have helped were actual skills like networking and the resilience to change her plans when something went awry.

What was a cutesy anecdote about eavesdropping in the steam room after golf did not become a lesson in networking. Paris wanted her for Veep because she was “likeable.” What? Wasn’t she just the loner social outcast in need of school counseling? 

Somehow, it’s no longer mystifying why she was rootless in AYITL. She left her center of Rory worship, i.e. Stars Hollow, turned Logan down, and had no will to remake herself like pre-series Lorelai did. Sofa surfing was probably less a financial need, since her grandparents and father and trust fund were there for her, and more a way to have friends. I can see her being very lonely in those ten years.

 

 

 

 https://www.headstuff.org/entertainment/film/taking-rory-gilmore-off-her-pedestal/ 

[marineg]

2 hours ago, junienmomo said:

That was a great article. Sorry I missed it earlier. The link is reposted below because it took me a while to find it. Love the comment about a potential long-term job at the end. 

Rory had an element of Lorelai’s success, namely work hard. She didn’t have Lorelai’s ability to be willing to do the unpleasant stuff; rather she laid out a plan of hard work at academics and everything else will follow. It did not help her to be constantly told that she was perfect and bound for success. What would have helped were actual skills like networking and the resilience to change her plans when something went awry.

What was a cutesy anecdote about eavesdropping in the steam room after golf did not become a lesson in networking. Paris wanted her for Veep because she was “likeable.” What? Wasn’t she just the loner social outcast in need of school counseling? 

Somehow, it’s no longer mystifying why she was rootless in AYITL. She left her center of Rory worship, i.e. Stars Hollow, turned Logan down, and had no will to remake herself like pre-series Lorelai did. Sofa surfing was probably less a financial need, since her grandparents and father and trust fund were there for her, and more a way to have friends. I can see her being very lonely in those ten years.

I think that the contrast with Lorelai is stark, and yet, everyone likes Rory more than Lorelai.

And I'm not even talking about the fact that Lorelai is seen as "having too many boyfriends" and failing at all relationships (even though she says at some point that having a kid made her a bit of a nun) and even though most of her relationships lasted for a while at least. Yet, everyone likes Rory, who managed to have 3 long-term boyfriends before she turned 21 and went literally from man to man (Dean to Jess to Dean to Logan). Apart from between Jess and Dean where there was the lost year (where Marty was her boy crutch), she never waited more than a couple days/weeks before turning her sights on someone else.

I'm not criticising women or girls in terms of their relationships with men. Just that for a show that supposedly depicts independent women who figure out their lives on their own, and virtually don't need anyone, Rory was very dependent on others (friends, family...) and especially boyfriends. Dean built her a car (she didn't have to buy one), Logan introduced her to his father and to the blogger who gives her a job post-graduation (and didn't have to work at finding a job).

Through her relationships, this idea of the perfect Rory who could never do wrong is augmented (even when she behaves badly, the bf is in the wrong...), and everything falls into her lap.

[stan4]

What's really goofy is I bet ASP didn't mean for these characters (L and R) to come off as horribly as they do.

16 hours ago, marineg said:

I think that the contrast with Lorelai is stark, and yet, everyone likes Rory more than Lorelai.

Uh.  Rory is like the worst character with the most boring storylines, so majorly disagree.

[marineg]

7 hours ago, stan4 said:

What's really goofy is I bet ASP didn't mean for these characters (L and R) to come off as horribly as they do.

Uh.  Rory is like the worst character with the most boring storylines, so majorly disagree.

100% agree.

[junienmomo]

Rory the most boring character? 

I see lots of great things in her story arc. She starts as the dedicated student, meets Disneyesque romantic first boyfriend, keeps it light, which her worldly mother can’t understand. That’s followed by her sexual awakening boyfriend and her frenemy relationship to Paris. 

Then she falls into the abyss that is college, struggles, and doesn’t do well. A short time later comes her boyfriend/newspaper colleague, who introduces her to the ways young rich people deal with things, they don’t like.

After that she tries to negotiate the business world with these pathetic skills, failing often, but being constantly rescued by something or someone.

The only boring part I find in that is the rescuing part, which she accepts almost as her due, and that she never took charge of her own life and responsibility for her actions. But hey, that’s exactly what Logan and Christopher did. 

So yeah, her passivity is boring, which kinda justifies the opinion. But the opportunities offered by the storyline were pretty good. 

Huh. I didnt even realize some of this stuff until I wrote it right now. 

[andromeda331]

Continuing the conversation about Logan from Nitpicks. The way Logan response to Rory learning him sleeping with all of his sisters friends. That it wasn't his fault and then blame the girls. Did he learn that from his father? Emily's made remarks about Mitchum cheating on his wife. Did Logan assume Rory would never find out? But his mother clearly does since Emily made that crack about her weigh. Does it bother him that his mother gets hurt? Does he not care? Is that where he learned the crappy way he treats women? Does he ever realize how much that makes him like his father? Adding into to the revival Logan ends up becoming his dad? He has no problems keeping Rory as his mistress and still going along with his engagement.  

[ghoulina]

I don't think Logan truly thought he cheated, so there was nothing to hide in that sense. But I don't think he should have brought her to that wedding, knowing that he'd hooked up with most of the bridal party and that they were all either inconsiderate idiots or intentional mean girls (according to him). 

Personally, I don't think he cheated, but the whole situation still skeeved me out. It was messy and he didn't handle it well at all. 

[HeySandyStrange]

37 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I don't think Logan truly thought he cheated, so there was nothing to hide in that sense. But I don't think he should have brought her to that wedding, knowing that he'd hooked up with most of the bridal party and that they were all either inconsiderate idiots or intentional mean girls (according to him). 

Personally, I don't think he cheated, but the whole situation still skeeved me out. It was messy and he didn't handle it well at all. 

It's been a minute since I've seen those episodes, but before the bridal shower, did Rory and Logan officially "break up" or decide to take a breather, with an explicit implication that they didn't have to be monogamous? I truly can't remember, but if they didn't mutually agreed to see other people, I'd say it was cheating on Logan's part.

Honestly, I wonder if the tables were turned, how relaxed and flippant Logan would've been if Rory had ran out and hooked up with Colin, Finn, Jess, or whatever other smoe she got her hands on? Something tells me he wouldn't have been so forgiving. 

[shron17]

17 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

It's been a minute since I've seen those episodes, but before the bridal shower, did Rory and Logan officially "break up" or decide to take a breather, with an explicit implication that they didn't have to be monogamous?

They didn't.  They had a fight at the restaurant after the lunch with Jess.  Logan wanted to leave, said it was too much drama for him, and Rory wanted to stay so he left her cab money.  Nothing was said about breaking up, and neither contacted the other after.  Rory didn't know Logan thought they broke up until Honor called her at Thanksgiving.  Sure, it was vague, but Logan should have checked with Rory before he went off and slept with a bunch of other girls.

[andromeda331]

42 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

It's been a minute since I've seen those episodes, but before the bridal shower, did Rory and Logan officially "break up" or decide to take a breather, with an explicit implication that they didn't have to be monogamous? I truly can't remember, but if they didn't mutually agreed to see other people, I'd say it was cheating on Logan's part.

Honestly, I wonder if the tables were turned, how relaxed and flippant Logan would've been if Rory had ran out and hooked up with Colin, Finn, Jess, or whatever other smoe she got her hands on? Something tells me he wouldn't have been so forgiving. 

I don't think he would have been so forgiving either. Look at his reaction to Rory showing up with Robert at the Pulp Fiction party he was jealous and wanted Rory to ditch Robert and leave with him.  

[andromeda331]

21 minutes ago, shron17 said:

They didn't.  They had a fight at the restaurant after the lunch with Jess.  Logan wanted to leave, said it was too much drama for him, and Rory wanted to stay so he left her cab money.  Nothing was said about breaking up, and neither contacted the other after.  Rory didn't know Logan thought they broke up until Honor called her at Thanksgiving.  Sure, it was vague, but Logan should have checked with Rory before he went off and slept with a bunch of other girls.

Yes, that's what happened. Neither one said anything about breaking up or whether they were broken up or not. But Rory really though they just had a fight or she wouldn't have been so surprised by Honor's call. Logan says he thought they broke up. But he also told Rory that he only told Honor that because she wouldn't stop bugging him. So did he really think they were broken up or was that just what he said to get his sister off his back? Does Rory have to tell Logan every time they have a fight that its just a fight? If not he's going to think their broken up and he can go off and sleep with a bunch of women? 

[marineg]

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I don't think Logan truly thought he cheated, so there was nothing to hide in that sense. But I don't think he should have brought her to that wedding, knowing that he'd hooked up with most of the bridal party and that they were all either inconsiderate idiots or intentional mean girls (according to him). 

Personally, I don't think he cheated, but the whole situation still skeeved me out. It was messy and he didn't handle it well at all. 

Definitely. And From Nitpicking, someone said that he blamed it on others and couldn't take responsibility for his actions. I agree, but disagree. I think that when he blamed the girls he slept with, it wasn't about blaming them for the sex, but blaming them for telling Rory when they KNEW that she was his girlfriend. His first and only girlfriend. Knowing him, they should have realised that it was important to him and that they wouldn't hurt both Rory and Logan with those comments. And I don't know if he should have told Rory.

If there hadn't been the wedding I would have thought no, because they were broken up and it's not really Rory's business who he sleeps with when they are broken up. But knowing that he was going to the wedding with her and with them, he should have told her. But in his defense (not really...) he didn't know Rory would go to the bridal suite as she had planned to go to the library and work. He probably thought she wouldn't be faced with the girls.
 

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes, that's what happened. Neither one said anything about breaking up or whether they were broken up or not. But Rory really though they just had a fight or she wouldn't have been so surprised by Honor's call. Logan says he thought they broke up. But he also told Rory that he only told Honor that because she wouldn't stop bugging him. So did he really think they were broken up or was that just what he said to get his sister off his back? Does Rory have to tell Logan every time they have a fight that its just a fight? If not he's going to think their broken up and he can go off and sleep with a bunch of women? 

Again, I'm being the devil's advocate here, but Logan and Rory had their fight. They didn't talk to each other for just shy of a month before Thanksgiving. That's not normal. Logan thought he was broken up, which, okay I guess, that explains why he didn't call. But Rory thought they had just a fight. How do you go weeks without talking to your boyfriend and trying to defuse the situation? If my imaginary boyfriend hadn't called me for weeks, I would guess we were broken up.

As for the Honor at Thanksgiving thing, here's the transcript:

RORY: (turns around to face him) You don't get to care about where I live anymore, Logan. You broke up with me...through your sister.
LOGAN: I didn't mean for that to happen.
RORY: You're a coward. Mr."Life and Death Brigade" can't even break up with his girlfriend.
LOGAN: Honor was bugging me, and I just told her we broke up to shut her up. I needed some time.
RORY: So you didn't mean it?
LOGAN: No, I did. I just...it was too much for me, OK?

So no, he didn't just tell that to Honor so she would stop bugging him. He also meant it. Again, not an excuse for not telling the girl involved, but yeah. And all the girls he slept with were at or after Thanksgiving. So we can MAYBE surmise that he only slept with them after Honor called Rory and she told him she called Rory and Logan knew they were definitely broken up then. But that's a big maybe.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, marineg said:

Definitely. And From Nitpicking, someone said that he blamed it on others and couldn't take responsibility for his actions. I agree, but disagree. I think that when he blamed the girls he slept with, it wasn't about blaming them for the sex, but blaming them for telling Rory when they KNEW that she was his girlfriend. His first and only girlfriend. Knowing him, they should have realised that it was important to him and that they wouldn't hurt both Rory and Logan with those comments. And I don't know if he should have told Rory.

If there hadn't been the wedding I would have thought no, because they were broken up and it's not really Rory's business who he sleeps with when they are broken up. But knowing that he was going to the wedding with her and with them, he should have told her. But in his defense (not really...) he didn't know Rory would go to the bridal suite as she had planned to go to the library and work. He probably thought she wouldn't be faced with the girls.
 

Again, I'm being the devil's advocate here, but Logan and Rory had their fight. They didn't talk to each other for just shy of a month before Thanksgiving. That's not normal. Logan thought he was broken up, which, okay I guess, that explains why he didn't call. But Rory thought they had just a fight. How do you go weeks without talking to your boyfriend and trying to defuse the situation? If my imaginary boyfriend hadn't called me for weeks, I would guess we were broken up.

As for the Honor at Thanksgiving thing, here's the transcript:

RORY: (turns around to face him) You don't get to care about where I live anymore, Logan. You broke up with me...through your sister.
LOGAN: I didn't mean for that to happen.
RORY: You're a coward. Mr."Life and Death Brigade" can't even break up with his girlfriend.
LOGAN: Honor was bugging me, and I just told her we broke up to shut her up. I needed some time.
RORY: So you didn't mean it?
LOGAN: No, I did. I just...it was too much for me, OK?

So no, he didn't just tell that to Honor so she would stop bugging him. He also meant it. Again, not an excuse for not telling the girl involved, but yeah. And all the girls he slept with were at or after Thanksgiving. So we can MAYBE surmise that he only slept with them after Honor called Rory and she told him she called Rory and Logan knew they were definitely broken up then. But that's a big maybe.

Thanks for the transcript I remembered the line about Honor bugging him but couldn't remember if he meant that or not.  I agree a month is a long time to go without calling your boyfriend/girlfriend. They should have called each other by that point. Was Rory waiting for Logan to call her? Did she think he should be the one to call first? What did she think when a month passed and she hadn't heard from Logan? If he slept with the girls after Honor's phone call that makes it a little better. At least Rory knew by that point they were broken up.  

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, marineg said:

Knowing him, they should have realised that it was important to him and that they wouldn't hurt both Rory and Logan with those comments.

Um, knowing him?  Knowing that he sleeps with everything in skirts?  How would Rory be any more important to him unless they all admitted they were all sluts and Rory was somehow different?  It wasn't about hurting anyone, certainly not Logan who bad mouthed each and every one of them. 

He deserved to be hurt for his nasty attitude and sense of entitlement - "I am good looking and rick so I can do whatever I want, I can talk trash about them afterward, and they deserve to be treated like skanks".

[shron17]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree a month is a long time to go without calling your boyfriend/girlfriend. They should have called each other by that point. Was Rory waiting for Logan to call her? Did she think he should be the one to call first?

I still blame Logan, as he's the one who slept with others.  He should have called and made sure they were broken up before he started acting like they were.  Rory didn't sleep with anyone else.

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, shron17 said:

I still blame Logan, as he's the one who slept with others.  He should have called and made sure they were broken up before he started acting like they were.  Rory didn't sleep with anyone else.

Breaks ups don't have to be mutual.  Break ups can be unilateral.  They weren't married, or even engaged.  So, if Logan thinks they're broken up, they're broken up.  Maybe he could have said something, but since they didn't speak in a month (from what I'm understanding, didn't watch much during the college years), that really should have told Rory they were broken up, if she didn't already realize. 

[marineg]

33 minutes ago, shron17 said:

I still blame Logan, as he's the one who slept with others.  He should have called and made sure they were broken up before he started acting like they were.  Rory didn't sleep with anyone else.

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Um, knowing him?  Knowing that he sleeps with everything in skirts?  How would Rory be any more important to him unless they all admitted they were all sluts and Rory was somehow different?  It wasn't about hurting anyone, certainly not Logan who bad mouthed each and every one of them. 

He deserved to be hurt for his nasty attitude and sense of entitlement - "I am good looking and rick so I can do whatever I want, I can talk trash about them afterward, and they deserve to be treated like skanks".

He didn't insult them. Let's put things back into perspective here. The only thing he said was "LOGAN: Oh, no. Blondie, dipsy, bubbles, four nose jobs, charm McGee, all great gals." That's not the most awful thing you could say. Don't tell me you ever said something similar behind someone's back. It's "gossip".

And no one ever said these girls were skanks or sluts. Again, we have absolutely no right to judge someone based on their sex lives. As someone said on Nitpicking, Logan and his friends are very open to casual sex. We see it with Finn, Colin, Robert, Rosemary, Juliet, Robert, and even the bridesmaids. Rory tries her hand but can't do it. That's no judgment and doesn't merit judgment. Logan having sex with these women shouldn't elicit judgment. The only question here is were they broken up or not. If they were, he can do whatever he wants. If they were still together, that's a problem. In my mind, they were broken up because if you ghost your boyfriend for 2 months, he ain't your boyfriend no more.

And again, the bridesmaids knew about Rory. One of them says "Shush, Rory's Logan's girlfriend" and the other answers "Oh, you're Rory-Rory." So they knew of her. They knew that casual-sex-Logan was DATING her, something that even shocked Honor when she heard. That was not a usual thing for Logan to have a girlfriend. Yet they went and talked about all their sexual experiences with him in front of her.

Edited June 5, 2018 by marineg

[shron17]

41 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Breaks ups don't have to be mutual.  Break ups can be unilateral.  They weren't married, or even engaged.  So, if Logan thinks they're broken up, they're broken up.  Maybe he could have said something, but since they didn't speak in a month (from what I'm understanding, didn't watch much during the college years), that really should have told Rory they were broken up, if she didn't already realize. 

Of course they don't have to be mutual, but if your intent is to sleep with other people I think you should make sure the other person knows you're broken up.  It was cowardly of Logan.  It's not like Rory was refusing his calls, just neither of them called the other after their fight.  Rory probably should have called him but she's not the one that moved on.

[chessiegal]

The thing that sticks in my mind about Honor's wedding is that fugly dress wardrobe put on Alexis. It was awful.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, marineg said:

 Again, we have absolutely no right to judge someone based on their sex lives

I'm going to fix your quote. It should say:

Again, we have absolutely no right to judge someone.

However, this is a TV show, where the people aren't real. So, I don't know if the same rules apply.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, marineg said:

He didn't insult them. The only thing he said was "Blondie, dipsy, bubbles, four nose jobs, charm McGee, all great gals."

Wow, I would love to hear your idea of an insult.  If someone tagged me as "four nose jobs" I am quite certain that I would take it as very insulting.  Especially from a sex partner.

[Katy M]

34 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Wow, I would love to hear your idea of an insult.  If someone tagged me as "four nose jobs" I am quite certain that I would take it as very insulting.  Especially from a sex partner.

I think I would be more insulted by Dipsy or Bubbles.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, shron17 said:

Of course they don't have to be mutual, but if your intent is to sleep with other people I think you should make sure the other person knows you're broken up. 

At least Logan and Rory were more "broken up" than Luke and Lorelai were after Partings.

#stillbitter

[marineg]

3 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Wow, I would love to hear your idea of an insult.  If someone tagged me as "four nose jobs" I am quite certain that I would take it as very insulting.  Especially from a sex partner.

I don't insinuate that what he said is nice in any way. But haven't you ever dated/slept with someone and weeks/days/months later talked with your girlfriends about how wrong you were, or criticising the guy in a joking manner. Like "Remember that guy from Thanksgiving? God was he such a loon!" 

He didn't truly insult them. It's more of a criticism, maybe not warranted, but it's not what I'd call an insult.

2 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

At least Logan and Rory were more "broken up" than Luke and Lorelai were after Partings.

#stillbitter

And I'm sorry and maybe in the minority here, but I do believe Luke and Lorelai were broken up here as well. She told him now or never and he said never.

Edited June 5, 2018 by marineg

[Katy M]

33 minutes ago, marineg said:

And I'm sorry and maybe in the minority here, but I do believe Luke and Lorelai were broken up here as well. She told him now or never and he said never.

I'll agree that they were broken up.  My opinion on the matter is it's disrespectful to have sex that close to a break up, though.  You should wait at least a week.

[ghoulina]

16 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes, that's what happened. Neither one said anything about breaking up or whether they were broken up or not. But Rory really though they just had a fight or she wouldn't have been so surprised by Honor's call. Logan says he thought they broke up. But he also told Rory that he only told Honor that because she wouldn't stop bugging him. So did he really think they were broken up or was that just what he said to get his sister off his back? Does Rory have to tell Logan every time they have a fight that its just a fight? If not he's going to think their broken up and he can go off and sleep with a bunch of women? 

Logan had never really done the relationship thing, so I can understand him thinking that was a breakup. And, honestly, I had a breakup once where we just stopped talking. It was never officially announced. I'm sorry, but if you go weeks without speaking to the other person, that person has a reasonable right to think things are over. 

I think what he meant about Honor was not that it wasn't a real breakup but he said that to shut her up - but that it wasn't really her business, but he caved and told her to shut her up. 

I still maintain that he really thought they were broken up, and it wasn't out of  line for him to think so. 

And I generally can't stand Logan, so I'm not trying to defend him. 

1 hour ago, marineg said:

And I'm sorry and maybe in the minority here, but I do believe Luke and Lorelai were broken up here as well. She told him now or never and he said never.

They were absolutely broken up in my mind as well, but damn.....she hopped in bed with someone else the same night. Maybe I'm just a lone reed, in that I cannot get physical with someone when I'm still in love with someone else, don't love them, etc. etc. It seemed really callous, to me, how quickly both Logan and Lorelai were able to hit the sheets with someone else. And I don't think either cheated, but it still bothered me. 

[marineg]

19 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

They were absolutely broken up in my mind as well, but damn.....she hopped in bed with someone else the same night. Maybe I'm just a lone reed, in that I cannot get physical with someone when I'm still in love with someone else, don't love them, etc. etc. It seemed really callous, to me, how quickly both Logan and Lorelai were able to hit the sheets with someone else. And I don't think either cheated, but it still bothered me. 

Yes. And I'll go a step farther with this and say that she hoped in a relationship when she was still in love with someone else. She jumped into the relationship when Chris said he was all-in and there was no one else for him, because that's all she ever wanted to hear from Luke. She married him because he wanted to elope with her and Luke never wanted. She overcorrected from her relationship with Luke. And that's not fair to Chris. And I'll paraphrase @ghoulina and say I generally can't stand Chris, so I'm not trying to defend him. 

[ghoulina]

14 minutes ago, marineg said:

Yes. And I'll go a step farther with this and say that she hoped in a relationship when she was still in love with someone else. She jumped into the relationship when Chris said he was all-in and there was no one else for him, because that's all she ever wanted to hear from Luke. She married him because he wanted to elope with her and Luke never wanted. She overcorrected from her relationship with Luke. And that's not fair to Chris. And I'll paraphrase @ghoulina and say I generally can't stand Chris, so I'm not trying to defend him. 

LOL, I can't stand Chris either. But it was unfair to him how quickly she got into a relationship with him. Her dust was NOT settled from Luke. It was also super hurtful to Luke. 

[marineg]

55 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

LOL, I can't stand Chris either. But it was unfair to him how quickly she got into a relationship with him. Her dust was NOT settled from Luke. It was also super hurtful to Luke. 

Yes, it was hurtful to Luke. But I will say this: Luke was an ass post-break-up.

They broke up. Lorelai had sex with Chris. Luke showed up 2 days later to marry her and Lorelai tells him she slept with Chris. He just gets in his car and drives all the way to Boston* and punches Chris. Then he meets Lorelai in the street and tells her he is not hurt, that he doesn't care about the break-up, that they weren't supposed to be together. And that's it.

We can all agree that all his talk of not getting hurt and not belonging with Lorelai is poppycock. He did love her. And therefore he should have had a talk with her post-confession. He should have told her that he was hurt. He should have tried to see if they could fix the relationship, or at least end on better terms. Yes, break-ups are not always easy, but for 2 people who loved each other and wanted to get married not 24 hours earlier, there needs to be a conversation. In my opinion.

 

*Did Chris still live in Boston? We know he got a job there when he was with Sherry, and supposedly still when his father died since he was staying at his parents'. Did he move after that? Not long after he started the relationship with Lorelai and was in constant contact with Rory. Was he 2 hours away from SH? Did he drive 2 hours to go to Lane's wedding with Lorelai? Did he drive 2 hours every time they wanted to go on a date? What about GG? Was she staying for 6 hours with a nanny at night? And that's only considering the 4 hour drive round-trip plus two small hours for a date.

Edited June 5, 2018 by marineg

[Kohola3]

3 hours ago, marineg said:

But haven't you ever dated/slept with someone and weeks/days/months later talked with your girlfriends about how wrong you were, or criticising the guy in a joking manner.

No.  It's a matter of decorum.