General True Crime Shows

[roamyn]

I knew a little abt the case (like the assailant coming back to stab her in the hallway.)

I didn't no that two people actually SAW him stabbing her, I thought everyone just heard it happening. So I was glad to hear more details. Okay, not glad, because that's insensitive.

I also didn't no she was gay. I wonder how her Catholic Italian immigrants felt abt the entire case & publicity. I aldo felt sad for her partner.

Oh, and Winston Mosley (I think his name is), is still alive, still in prison, and still being turned down for parole.

[applecrisp]

A Crime to Remember remains head and shoulders above all ID shows.

 

Such a sad story.  It told a story that I had only heard in small pieces, so was glad I watched.

[friendperidot]

watching 48 Hours on ID, married couple, he's in prison for killing her, says she fell down the stairs. He worked, she was a stay at home mom while the children were babies. He was asked by the interviewer if he made her pay him back for money spent on diapers and things for the children. He can't remember. He can't remember if he made his stay at home wife on an allowance from him pay him back for money for necessities for their children! Give me a break! If you are married, have children, the children are a joint responsibility! Check that, if you have children with someone, the children are a joint responsibility!

 

I missed the episode about Kitty Genovese, I did want to see that one, I'll have to look for it.

[Cobb Salad]

I saw that 48 Hours segment too. The story about falling down the stairs but blood stains on the floor around the corner seemed very suspicious. His crying also came off to me as something he thinks he has to do to convince people he's telling the truth.

Regarding the part about paying back the money for the children's expenses, I knew someone who was in a similar situation (pay me to watch our child when you go out, though they weren't married). There it seemed like he want interested in being a parent and probably the guy on 48 Hours wasn't either.

[Kitty Redstone]

I totally agree. 

 

That poor woman.  Stuck between a cheating creep of a husband and a power hungry creep of a rapist in a deeply racist, hateful society.  She had no where to go for help.  And then to be convicted and put in a mental institution and tortured for another twenty years?  At least she made it out, though no telling the scars she carried for the rest of her days. 

 

I'm going to read up on Ruby McCollom as well.  Hopefully her children were well cared for during her incarceration, and welcomed her home when she was finally freed from hell.

[Fraoch]

Oh, that episode. I had never heard of this case, and my heart just broke for that poor woman as the story progressed. When they showed the photos of the real-life people over the end credits, I got chills looking at that vile doctor's smug face.

 

I'd like to find this documentary now.

[damalanop]

Have to agree...this was one of the best episodes of any show of this type that I've seen.  First, this was not some re-hash of a case we have seen 100 times.  Second, the narration, re-creation and commentary were well done.  And finally...Ruby herself was so compelling.  I can't comprehend just how much this woman suffered!  So much so, that her story was still on my mind when I woke up this morning.  One of the things that I thought this episode did so well was emphasizing how there are/were so many open secrets that just aren't talked about, and then how those secrets get covered up when they are finally addressed (i.e., sending Ruby to a mental institution instead of the electric chair).  Heart-wrenching, but wonderful storytelling.  Well done, ID!!!

[walnutqueen]

I thought I'd give Love the Way You Lie a try; caught the Blake episode.  I didn't care for the format, and was too familiar with the case to care about anyone's story - especially the sister's.  I doubt I'll tune in again.

 

I'm so glad A Crime To Remember is back, and with a vengeance.  It has become my favorite ID show, next to Kenda, of course.   ;-)

[auntjess]

I watched the one on the WA couple who torutured and killed people, (Sins & Secrets, I think.)
I was outraged that they let them plead guilty to 2nd degree counts, to spare their children a trial.
They should have allowed them to plea to take death out of the picture, but neither, and especially her, should have ever been let out.
And I'd think the kids were old enough, and had lived through so much, that they'd have been willing for a trial, if such short terms were the alternatives.
 

[Fraoch]

I was watching the Bonny Lee Bakley episode in utter disbelief at the sister's spin on everything. BLB was a grifter from waaaaay back, from everything I've read, and she had a habit of going after older men who were famous but kind of on the fringes of that fame -- like, she wasn't targeting young up-and-comers, and that was no accident.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Fraoch

[applecrisp]

Me too, on both subjects, walnutqueen. I didn't know a lot about the Blake case, but was aware of it.

 

I was snarling back at the TV by the umpty-fourth time the sister appeared with her whackdoodle fairytale version of Bonnie Lee's life and times. Bonnie didn't need killing (I grew up in Texas, where we learned handy phrases like that), but she was, as Andyourlittledog2 noted, a huckster on the prowl. 

 

Edited to add: I'm glad I didn't see that episode about the woman who victimized and killed the Lotto winner. I saw that case on some show already. There may be "two sides" to stories. But when one of the people is a stone cold sociopath (or psychopath), all you need to know is that person lacks a conscience. The world from their perspective isn't something that those of us with consciences, and the ability to empathize with others, would probably even recognize. That's why it saddens me when victims of crime say "I want to stand up in court and show that criminal what he did to me/us, how he made me/us suffer, what he took from us" etc. If the criminal (thief, rapist, killer, swindler, whatever) is a sociopath, they simply won't feel or understand. They may fake it, but they don't feel it. It's not real to them. I'm not expressing myself well, sorry. Anyway, there's a book I read,  "The Sociopath Next Door," that made me understand some of this even if I can't express it. /rant over. Thanks.

Suz, I Killed my BFF, did the Shakespeare/  Dee Dee Moore case a couple of weeks ago.  It is a show where they show both sides and if you don't know the story you don't find out until the end.

 

This pairing were never BFF's, I just could not watch it.  I had heard too much about the case.  They did Skylar Neese this year as well which was appropriate for this show.  

 

I now wonder about some of the other cases that I don't know at all.

Edited November 23, 2014 by applecrisp

[Rina99]

Imagine my surprise when I heard the familiar tones of Peter Thomas on ID just now.  It appears to be a repackaged episode of Forensic Files, but the title of the show is called "Cause of Death" and is labeled on my guide as "new".  Ok, ID.

[Rina99]

More randomness:  I recognized the killer from the viral video "Too Many Cooks" in the Swamp Murders episode "Quilbillies".

[walnutqueen]

Thanks, Suz - I enjoyed your post about the case more than the episode itself.  Not the series' best effort, as you said.  But ID channel has lowered my expectations ...

[applecrisp]

It was a very interesting case.  I think they both did it and she was one cool cucumber.  Suz thanks for the additional info.

 

She just went back to her life after committing incest and murder.  I would think she would have been a pariah.  This was the weakest one so far, but still head and shoulders above most other ID fare.

[applecrisp]

Again, thanks for the info Suz.  Money will make people do crazy things.  

[applecrisp]

I still watch Deadly Women.  On most ID shows the people are pretty or at least attractive, DW is one exception.  I find most of the actors rather unattractive.  I know I am being petty.

 

One reason I still like the show is that they show the women as monsters.  There are no interviews to humanize the criminals.

[slensam]

I liked the series more than I thought I would as long as we were in angel-stealing territory. More of that would be good. Less semen and urine would be great. 

More angel-stealing and less semen and urine. Could be an effective philosophy. Up there with Aristotle.

[damalanop]

Watched Motives & Murders: Cracking the Case straight through for the first time tonight. The case took place in my home town and I'd never heard about it. This episode featured the case of Wendy Stark, a young woman who was shot and killed in a stranger's home. This case had so many twists and turns and went cold due to the lack of DNA testing during the '80s. Twenty-six years later the case was finally solved. The ending was bittersweet, but at least the case was solved.

I'm typically critical of ID's shows these days, so I'll give credit where it's due. This one was very well done. The recreations were spot on in terms of the clothing and cars that were popular at the time, and the narration wasn't over dramatic or salacious. By the end, I felt awful for the family and for Wendy given what the police learned along the way. At least though, the killer was identified.

Edited December 3, 2014 by damalanop

[damalanop]

I missed a critical bit of that show last night, damalanop. I watched the part where they got DNA analysis of the dog hairs and were stunned when the results didn't point to their main suspect. Then I saw the wrapup with the re-enactment showing the guy they finally arrested. I missed seeing how they found him. Was it DNA or some other break in the case?

 

I agree, this was one of the better ID shows that didn't sink into the salacious and stupid narration, and the dramatizations were way above the ID average too. As I watched Wendy's mom, I marveled again at how some people can survive horrible losses in life. I've never had to deal with anything like that, and figure I'd crumble like a cheap cookie, so I admire and respect the survivors.

 

Suz: Yes it was DNA that broke the case.  Apparently the swabs taken at the crime scene had been misplaced over the years.  By some "divine intervention "(these were the detectives words), the swabs were found and they were able to extract DNA to run through CODIS.  They got a hit on Gerald Abernathy who'd been on their radar initially but was dismissed because they had no way to connect him to the murder at the time.  It was a surprise to the detectives because Karemi looked so good as a suspect.

 

I totally agree with you about Wendy's mother and others that endure these terrible losses (especially with no closure/justice).  I don't think I'd have been able to be interviewed for the show due to the heartbreak.  I too, admire their strength!

Edited December 3, 2014 by damalanop

[Fraoch]

I thought this week's episode of A Crime to Remember about Charles Whitman was a good return to form after the episode with Candy Mossier left me bored. Seeing people who were there that day still getting choked up as they recalled the events...so powerful. And I knew that he had visited a campus doctor but did NOT know that he had actually told the doctor that he had thoughts of going up to the tower to shoot people! How must that doctor have felt in the aftermath?

[walnutqueen]

And in a bizarre twist, some 100 brains were believed  to have been stolen from  Texas U., possibly including that of Charles Whitman.  The University is now saying a bunch of brains were routinely destroyed years ago, but whether Whitman's was, they're not really sure yet.

 

Also, I'm not sure if any ID shows covered the McCarthy Alaska mass murders (I know Disco's Ice Cold Killers did), but the lone survivor of the shootings just died in his cabin fire.

[roamyn]

I thought it ironic, as well, walnutqueen.

Though the University is now saying they don't believe Whitman's was one destroyed.

However, since the coroner basically took the brain apart & found the tumor, how much of his brain is really left &in what kind of shape?

Also, one victim died early 2000's directly as a cause of injuries received during the rampage. So technically there's 17, and if we count Claire _______'s fetus it would be 18.

So not quite the Newtown massacre's, less than VT, snd far below Andrew Kehoe's massacre in Bath, MI in the 1920's.

[walnutqueen]

Suz at Large - I was tempted to watch that Momsters show, but instead opted to watch lions tearing apart poor helpless prey on Safari Live.  Sounds like I made the right choice.  ;-)

[walnutqueen]

I enjoyed seeing Roseanne on that short-lived show about her life in Hawaii, so I was tempted to watch Momsters.  I may give it a try one day just to hear her snarking.

 

I did watch the new series Murder Book, and it was surprisingly OK.

[editorgrrl]

I did watch the new series Murder Book, and it was surprisingly OK.

"Surprisingly OK" is my opinion, too. New episodes Tuesdays at 9 p.m.

http://investigationdiscovery.com/tv-shows/murder-book

From the moment a slaying is reported, authorities assemble a “Murder Book” to document details of the investigation, starting from the crime scene and ending with the arrest of the perpetrator. Murder Books and the stories within them have been confidential until now. Investigation Discovery’s MURDER BOOK reopens recently solved cold cases to reveal the chilling details behind the crime.

[Fraoch]

 

"Surprisingly OK" is my opinion, too.

 

Good to hear -- I've recorded it but not watched the first episode yet. And I like Roseanne on Momsters, even if the cases themselves are a little "ehh."

[roamyn]

Most Evil is baaaack! I love that show. The older man who used to do the ranking is gone but they have a new guy now who seems fine. The narrator though is the same and that is what I really care about. I love that narrator. Also the format is the same so that is familiar. I'm so glad it's back, I was missing it.

I kinda liked Dr. Stone, I'm not sure abt if his methods stand up to scientific scrutiny, but he had a soothing voice.

[Rina99]

So I guess "Behind Mansion Walls" isn't coming back?  Too bad, it was one I enjoyed that didn't take itself too seriously or get overtly sexual.  Plus I enjoyed looking at Christopher Mason's ensembles.

 

I really enjoyed last night's "A Crime To Remember", about the woman convicted of burning her husband to death in his car back in the 60's. I have no idea if the woman killed her husband or not, but I was struck by how her children weren't exactly tripping over themselves to declare her innocence.  Though that was some cold shite the prosecutor pulled, releasing that story during the trial to the media that she might have had something to do with the death of her lover's wife.  

[Constantinople]

Debra Miller, the daugher, wrote about in the LA Times Magazine a few years back
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/apr/02/magazine/tm-dreams14

 

I don't think the episode mentioned that Joan Didion wrote an essay about the murder titled "Some Dreamers of the Golden Dream".  I suspect that's why A Crime to Remember selected it.

 

The case reminded me of the Alice Crimmins episode from Season 1 in that perhaps a woman wasn't convicted just on the evidence, but not being a "good" wife or mother.

[Kitty Redstone]

Thank you for that link, Constantinople.  Debra Miller wrote an excellent article.  You can feel the weight of anger, grief, and guilt in her words and that's not something very many writers can do.  Such a sad story. 

 

I missed some parts of the episode -- was it the prosecutor's contention that the mom drugged the dad first so he wouldn't wake up?  Or that she counted on him being so high that he wouldn't wake up?  Clearly I need to go back and watch, because it seemed like they convicted her more by casting her as a cheating, greedy wife than anything else.  Oh, and the upright milk bottles.

 

ETA:  I liked Behind Mansion Walls, too, Rina99.  There's not a whole lot I watch on ID anymore.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Kitty Redstone

[slensam]

Thank you for that link, Constantinople.  Debra Miller wrote an excellent article.  You can feel the weight of anger, grief, and guilt in her words and that's not something very many writers can do.  Such a sad story. 

 

I missed some parts of the episode -- was it the prosecutor's contention that the mom drugged the dad first so he wouldn't wake up?  Or that she counted on him being so high that he wouldn't wake up?  Clearly I need to go back and watch, because it seemed like they convicted her more by casting her as a cheating, greedy wife than anything else.  Oh, and the upright milk bottles.

 

ETA:  I liked Behind Mansion Walls, too, Rina99.  There's not a whole lot I watch on ID anymore.

It's kind of hard to watch as much ID as I used to in the past. Finding anything halfway decent is a diamond in the rough. I saw the promos for next year's stuff and I got unexpectedly depressed. They're catering to a specific audience but I can't figure out who. Not me, sadly.

[walnutqueen]

It is,indeed, sad to be reduced to looking forward to a mediocre ID show these days, because even they are scarce as hens' teeth.  I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel with stuff like A Stranger in My Home, Murder Book, etc. etc., but they seem like good shows, compared to everything else (besides Homicide Hunter and A Crime to Remember).  Alas and alack.

[roamyn]

Honestly, i felt that Behind Mansion Walls was scarping the bottom of the barrell, so I'm not surprised it's gone. I do hope Christopher Mason lands somewhere else though. J'adore him.

[walnutqueen]

Honestly, i felt that Behind Mansion Walls was scarping the bottom of the barrell, so I'm not surprised it's gone. I do hope Christopher Mason lands somewhere else though. J'adore him.

 

Perhaps one of those sexy Chanel ads, playing the (anti) hunky hot lover?    hee

 

Go ahead, I'll give you a moment to appreciate the visual ...

[applecrisp]

Of late I have been finding some of the shows I like.  Still like Fatal Vows, Stranger in my Home, Motives and Murder and Momsters - which is basically little vignettes.  Of course A Crime to Remember  is my fav.  

 

Just saw Stranger about a nice but a little slow man who was taken in by a women in Texas who basically tortured him.  The police were visibly upset. Just sad.

 

I the Miller case, I don't remember the police making a big deal about her drugging the husband.  Another thing, she only served about 7 years in prison and did give birth there.  I feel bad for the kids.

[walnutqueen]

Just saw Stranger about a nice but a little slow man who was taken in by a women in Texas who basically tortured him.  The police were visibly upset. Just sad.

 

 

SO damned hard to watch - that kind of shit just breaks my heart, applecrisp.

[Maizie131]

I just finished watching last night's "I'd Kill For You", which was a re-hash of the Buzz Clinton murder in Connecticut.  Years ago I read the book by M. William Phelps "Lethal Guardian" about Kim Carpenter's sister, Beth, arranging the murder with the lawyer she was working for at the time so that the Carpenters could get custody of Kim's 3 y.o. daughter.  Crazy story.  Anyhow, wasn't that impressed by this portrayal of the murder in "I'd Kill For You".  I usually like the show, tho.  I wonder whatever happened to Kim (Carpenter) Clinton and her daughter.  Anyone know?  She seemed like a real loser to me.  Her sister, Beth, is still in prison and recently asked for a new trial - I don't think she was successful.  She deserves to spend the rest of her life there for sure. 

 

Also like Momsters - I think Roseanne looks great and I do enjoy her snarky comments.  A Crime to Remember and Murder Comes To Town (GREAT narration!) my faves. 

 

This is my first post - hope I did it right!  Love reading all of your opinions!  I laughed until I was crying while reading everyone's suggestions for naming shows on I.D. -- that was too, too, funny!!! 

[applecrisp]

SO damned hard to watch - that kind of shit just breaks my heart, applecrisp.

It was, WQ.  I did FF a little bit.  Just hard to watch someone humiliated.

[walnutqueen]

There were parts I couldn't watch, too, applecrisp.

 

Maizie131 - Welcome!  I enjoyed reading your post, even though I didn't see the episode of I'd Kill For You.  I'm so glad that old list of ID shownames made you laugh - we had a lot of fun coming up with them.  :-)

[Maizie131]

There were parts I couldn't watch, too, applecrisp.

 

Maizie131 - Welcome!  I enjoyed reading your post, even though I didn't see the episode of I'd Kill For You.  I'm so glad that old list of ID shownames made you laugh - we had a lot of fun coming up with them.  :-)

Thank you, WQ!  LOVE this site & so glad I found it.  My significant other doesn't "get" my ID addition (nor anything unless it's on ESPN). 

[walnutqueen]

You have found your people, Maizie131!

 

Your old man would shit himself if he knew how many stupid sports channels ATT keeps adding to my line-up, faster than I can hide them from my on-screen guide.  :-)

 

Have you also visited the other General True Crime Shows thread?  It is over in the Genre Talk forum.  It hasn't had much traffic lately, but it's worth checking out:

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/6697-general-true-crime-shows/page-1

[applecrisp]

Maizie, some of the content on these shows are disturbing.  Sometimes it is law enforcement that is upsetting. I just need to talk about it and I come here.  

 

 Also many times I get more insight from the posters and links to more details of the people in the stories.

Edited December 21, 2014 by applecrisp

[roamyn]

I just finished watching last night's "I'd Kill For You", which was a re-hash of the Buzz Clinton murder in Connecticut. Years ago I read the book by M. William Phelps "Lethal Guardian" about Kim Carpenter's sister, Beth, arranging the murder with the lawyer she was working for at the time so that the Carpenters could get custody of Kim's 3 y.o. daughter. Crazy story. Anyhow, wasn't that impressed by this portrayal of the murder in "I'd Kill For You". I usually like the show, tho. I wonder whatever happened to Kim (Carpenter) Clinton and her daughter. Anyone know? She seemed like a real loser to me. Her sister, Beth, is still in prison and recently asked for a new trial - I don't think she was successful. She deserves to spend the rest of her life there for sure. !

Kim was pregnant when Buzz was killed. I believe their son was nsmed "3rd" aft Buzx & his father. Kim & Buzz actually lived in an apt over the Clinton's garage and I knew she continued to live there aft his death. What I didn't know is that they kicked her out. Interesting that Rebecca sought out the Clinton's recently. Hard to believe she's now an adult.

[Maizie131]

You have found your people, Maizie131!

 

Your old man would shit himself if he knew how many stupid sports channels ATT keeps adding to my line-up, faster than I can hide them from my on-screen guide.  :-)

 

Have you also visited the other General True Crime Shows thread?  It is over in the Genre Talk forum.  It hasn't had much traffic lately, but it's worth checking out:

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/6697-general-true-crime-shows/page-1

WQ - OMG you are too funny!  Yes, he probably WOULD shit himself he'd be so happy.  No, I haven't checked out the Gen'l True Crime Shows thread, but thanks so much for giving the link - I definitely will after this Christmas madness is over with. 

[Maizie131]

Maizie, some of the content on these shows are disturbing.  Sometimes it is law enforcement that is upsetting. I just need to talk about it and I come here.  

 

 Also many times I get more insight from the posters and links to more details of the people in the stories.

Applecrisp - you can whistle that again (disturbing content).  I can barely watch any dealing with children (I've got gorgeous 6 & 8 y.o. Granddaughters), and anything that's TOO twisted - like last week's True Evil.  I can't even recall what it was about because I changed channels about 5 min. into it.  If nothing on I.D., I usually turn to Forensic Files, most of which I've seen about 10 times each.  WTF -- that show was on for years so why do they keep replaying them?!?  ARGHHH!  They occasionally have new ones on from 2002 @ 6 or 7 p.m. which is nice.  Most of the time I just turn it on to fall asleep.  My friends tell me I must have horrible nightmares, but I can't TELL you the last time I did (they're usually real good!) -- and that's pretty amazing considering what I watch!  haha!

[walnutqueen]

Maizie - I have no choice with all the Sports Channels; they're part of the package.  But I often think of how it is all wasted on me, except during the Olympics (which I do watch obsessively).   :-)

 

I cannot bear to see animals or children being harmed in any way - can't even THINK about it.  I think that's why I hate those "re-enactment" type shows so much; listening to anyone screaming in fear or crying either upsets me (if they're good) or annoys me (if they're bad).  But I never have bad dreams or nightmares, and can fall asleep to the most heinous crime stories without a qualm.  :-)

[Maizie131]

Maizie - I have no choice with all the Sports Channels; they're part of the package.  But I often think of how it is all wasted on me, except during the Olympics (which I do watch obsessively).   :-)

 

I cannot bear to see animals or children being harmed in any way - can't even THINK about it.  I think that's why I hate those "re-enactment" type shows so much; listening to anyone screaming in fear or crying either upsets me (if they're good) or annoys me (if they're bad).  But I never have bad dreams or nightmares, and can fall asleep to the most heinous crime stories without a qualm.  :-)

Walnutqueen - Oh yeah!!  ANIMALS, too!  OMG - so many times on these shows whenever there's a dog involved (my screen name, BTW, is my dog, Maizie), I'll yell at the TV -- "No! No!  Don't kill the dog, too!!!!"  So VERY disturbing.  Animals & children - those that have no voice.  Horrid!  Can't get commercials off fast enough asking for $ for abused animals - I've never watched a single one.  I hate those re-enactment type shows & the screaming/crying, too.  Is that necessary?  Really?!?  So glad you don't have nightmares, either!  haha!  It really is surprising we don't. 

[walnutqueen]

EEEEEW!!!

 

I am so glad I read the episode description and decided to forgo watching this show.  :-)

[Maizie131]

Kim was pregnant when Buzz was killed. I believe their son was nsmed "3rd" aft Buzx & his father. Kim & Buzz actually lived in an apt over the Clinton's garage and I knew she continued to live there aft his death. What I didn't know is that they kicked her out. Interesting that Rebecca sought out the Clinton's recently. Hard to believe she's now an adult.

Romyn - I'm so sorry - I missed your post the other day!  Thanks so much for that info -- very interesting.  Wow -- Rebecca's a adult?!?  That is amazing.  Very screwed up families (not that mine is perfect, but so far none of us have killed anyone!  But on the other hand, the holidays are upon us.  haha!).

Oops~I bolded my ENTIRE last post!  I'm new at this, you guys...bear with me! 

 

ETA: Fixed bold issues!

Edited December 23, 2014 by WendyCR72