S03.E22: Before You Go Make Sure You Know

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Beverly is dead. No matter how complicated Scarlett's relationship is with her mother, I believe that Scarlett still loves Beverly. Scarlett told her mother that she would "see her soon" or something to that effect before Beverly went into surgery. I think that Beverly is dead when Caleb walks in the room. Scarlett is not there and will be wracked with guilt that she was with Gunnar as her mother was dying instead of in the waiting room with Rayna. She will feel that she failed in her responsibility as a daughter not to have waited through the entire surgery, particularly since she knows that Rayna and Bev didn't get along.

I think Scarlett will direct her grief and anger (at herself) toward Caleb, the one who delivers the news of her mother's death. She'll blame him for not doing enough to save her mother. The moment Caleb walked in the room, I think his relationship with Scarlett was over. We just haven't seen it yet, but I bet that's what's coming.

I think Scarlett will also blame Gunnar because he was the one who asked her to go outside and then made her stay longer so she could sing with him. That gives the writers reason #5925510 to keep Scarlett and Gunnar apart.

As much as I hope Beverly died, HIPAA makes me hesitate because Rayna is not related to Beverly which makes it unlikely that any doctor would ask to speak with Rayna, rather than Scarlett. Then again this is tv where doctors and nurses tell anyone and everyone what's going on with every patient in the hospital (see: Grey's Anatomy).

[LJonEarth]

Except, she threw something at Avery trying to hit him while he was holding the baby & without a regard for the consequences. That's not someone who needs support, that's someone who needs a restraining order.

 

The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's sad that there's such a stigma with abnormal behavior like this (probably a biological/psychological disorder). The fear of a restraining order and no support is why so many people don't speak up.

 

Now that I read some replies to a comment I made earlier, I see that the problem some people have with Juliette is the OTT, uneven writing. I hope that the they write the resolution to this storyline in a way that doesn't just leave people thinking Juliette is just a crazed bitch who doesn't need support and help. That's a disservice to people really dealing with this issue.

[LotusFlower]

Did I miss something when she was reading about herself online? (My mind wanders when Rayna and Deacon aren't on, so it totally could have happened!) But I thought Jeff made up that fat thing as a way to keep Layla under his control. That's why he didn't want her online or on the phone, so she wouldn't learn the truth.

Whoops, I think you're probably right! I guess it's my mind that was wandering. They showed Layla reading about herself online, I heard her mutter the word "fat," then she read a headline that said something about Jade St. John and the hand that "feeds" her.... So my mistake. But I'm still resting with a badly written episode, and Jeff emotionally abusing rail-thin Layla by making up taunts of her "girth" is in line with my dislike of this episode!

[madam magpie]

Whoops, I think you're probably right! I guess it's my mind that was wandering. They showed Layla reading about herself online, I heard her mutter the word "fat," then she read a headline that said something about Jade St. John and the hand that "feeds" her.... So my mistake. But I'm still resting with a badly written episode, and Jeff emotionally abusing rail-thin Layla by making up taunts of her "girth" is in line with my dislike of this episode!

Most definitely! And it speaks to a larger problem. I think what annoys me most is that I really want this to be a girl-power show, and it's just not. I want Rayna and her gorgeous hair to rule Nashville like a total boss, while mentoring Scarlett and Layla and encouraging the badass traits that make Juliette great. They should all struggle in ways that are appropriate to their ages and life experiences, but also be centered and capable and smart. I want the men these women are partnered with to be solid, interesting people in their own right who grow and evolve as the women do. I want a stable relationship and family with a 50/50 partnership at the helm. Basically I want Tami Taylor, Sheryl Sandberg, and Martina McBride to take on country music with their hot, talented fellas. They can show us why that's hard, rewarding, exciting, cool, etc. But this show is never going to be that show, and it's highly disappointing.

Edited May 15, 2015 by madam magpie

[Soup333]

I am sorry but I was genuinely not trying to call any of the posters in the thread stupid. What I was trying to say was that no matter how you feel about the couple - hate it or love it - everybody loses with this scenario and everybody should be thankful if they actually get together. The reason being that the alternative to them  being in a couple is quite obviously limited to milking their estrangement for drama and everybody hates that even more, fans and foes alike!

 

Sure, I get it if people don't like them together and if they don't want them to end up together but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

 

Telepath, I got what you meant. I'm just not ready to root for them right now. I kinda like Dr. Boyfriend, even though I know that relationship will never last.

 

Beverly is dead. 

 

I think Scarlett will direct her grief and anger (at herself) toward Caleb, the one who delivers the news of her mother's death. She'll blame him for not doing enough to save her mother. The moment Caleb walked in the room, I think his relationship with Scarlett was over.  We just haven't seen it yet, but I bet that's what's coming.

 

I can totally see this happening.

 

I think Scarlett will also blame Gunnar because he was the one who asked her to go outside and then made her stay longer so she could sing with him. That gives the writers reason #5925510 to keep Scarlett and Gunnar apart.

As much as I hope Beverly died, HIPAA makes me hesitate because Rayna is not related to Beverly which makes it unlikely that any doctor would ask to speak with Rayna, rather than Scarlett. Then again this is tv where doctors and nurses tell anyone and everyone what's going on with every patient in the hospital (see: Grey's Anatomy).

 

 HIPAA. Yeah, right. As if Nashville concerns itself with such trivial matters.

 

The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's sad that there's such a stigma with abnormal behavior like this (probably a biological/psychological disorder). The fear of a restraining order and no support is why so many people don't speak up.

 

Now that I read some replies to a comment I made earlier, I see that the problem some people have with Juliette is the OTT, uneven writing. I hope that the they write the resolution to this storyline in a way that doesn't just leave people thinking Juliette is just a crazed bitch who doesn't need support and help. That's a disservice to people really dealing with this issue.

 

This is my fervent prayer. This storyline is killing me. Juliette is my favorite character because I identify with her. I have a parent with problems similar to Jolene. All of Juliette's self-esteem issues...been there, got the T-shirt. I never had PPD, but my ex left me right after our youngest daughter's first birthday and I sank into a deep depression. My depression didn't manifest anything like Juliette's, but all those feelings - never being good enough, feeling abandoned - there were many days when I couldn't get out of bed. But I knew I had a problem and I knew I needed help. I also had to give my kids up for a time because I wasn't okay. I was so far from okay and I couldn't take care of them. It took a while for me to be myself again, but I came out of it a stronger person. If nothing else, I wanted Juliette to realize that there was something wrong with her, but she just kept getting worse and worse. I think I had a headache after I watched this episode. Certainly will never watch this one again.

[Beth64]

Is Layla 21? Even if she is, I think she could get out of that contract because Jeff is so much older, they are involved and he clearly exerted influence over her. Not equal bargaining powers.

[LotusFlower]

Most definitely! And it speaks to a larger problem. I think what annoys me most is that I really want this to be a girl-power show, and its just not. I want Rayna and her gorgeous hair to rule Nashville like a total boss, while mentoring Scarlett and Layla and encouraging the badass traits that make Juliette great. They should all struggle in ways that are appropriate to their ages and life experiences, but also be centered and capable and smart. I want the men these women are partnered with to be solid, interesting people in their own right who grow and evolve as the women do. I want a stable relationship and family with a 50/50 partnership at the helm. Basically I want Tami Taylor, Sheryl Sandberg, and Martina McBride to take on country music with their hot, talented fellas. They can show us why that's hard, rewarding, exciting, cool, etc. But this show is never going to be that show, and it's highly disappointing.

I would watch this show!! (And I did, or a version of it, when it was called FNL!)

(Speaking of which, did you see Amy Schumer's parody of FNL?! It even had a feminist bent, in a totally twisted way).

[madam magpie]

I would watch this show!! (And I did, or a version of it, when it was called FNL!)

(Speaking of which, did you see Amy Schumer's parody of FNL?! It even had a feminist bent, in a totally twisted way).

I did, and it was great! (Except for the part where she tells Coach to back off the no-raping talk for the sake of the team...or something. Tami would NEVER have said that!)

Oh, and add Tim Riggins to the Nashville I want as some kind of crooner working the clubs on Broadway. There's never enough Riggins on TV. #texasforever

Edited May 15, 2015 by madam magpie

[Madding crowd]

The problem with the Juliette story for me is that she has always been like this so it is hard to tell how much of it if any is PPD. I can understand hiring a nanny and continuing to work. I can't understand despising your newborn so much you have no interest in seeing or holding her in days or weeks. Juliette wants to pretend the baby doesn't exist. It is true Avery could "mother" her, but then he should not be living with Juliette. I think being a parent means you do have to sacrifice something and you do have to spend some time with the baby. Nothing wrong with working, but you can still find a way to come home and hold your child. 

 

It does look like Beverly will die but that goes against the message of the show and Chip Eslen in encouraging people to be organ donors. How many people will skip out on being a living donor if they see this story about the donor dying? Just sends a bad message in general even for a soap.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Madding crowd

[DeLurker]

Whoops, I think you're probably right! I guess it's my mind that was wandering. They showed Layla reading about herself online, I heard her mutter the word "fat," then she read a headline that said something about Jade St. John and the hand that "feeds" her.... So my mistake. But I'm still resting with a badly written episode, and Jeff emotionally abusing rail-thin Layla by making up taunts of her "girth" is in line with my dislike of this episode!

When she was looking herself up online there was an article with a headline complimentary to her figure (pretty sure on this). She scoffingly said "fat" as Jeff had told her the internet trolls (us?) were criticizing her weight.

[Ellaria]

In other news, yeah, how does Juliette sign with Luke while she has a contract with Rayna? Doesn't Luke have lawyers?

  

Of course not. No one has lawyers in this show. And country music singers run labels rather actual business people who understand profit and loss, etc. The bad writing on this show has no limits.

And, finally, Layla will chop off Jeff's head with a rusty battleax, fill his mouth with garlic, and set his oily aging creepster corpse on fire.

 

Okay, there might be some wishful thinking in that last one!

This made me laugh out loud. I almost choked. Anyway...Layla, Jeff and their putter should take a left turn out of this show and never return. I don't need to watch a disturbing relationship between two characters that I don't like.

I have no words about the character assassination of Juliette. PPD is serious not cartoony. A little bit of nuance and subtlety would have helped this story line tremendously. Instead, she is throwing snow globes and stomping around every office in Nashville. JJ was great and deserves a better story line than crying while carrying a potato.

Hurrah for Will. Best thing about the episode. And we don't need his father back...ever.

Loved the timing of the broadcast of Teddy's arrest. As usual, no one was paying any attention to anything that he does.

If Scarlett and Gunnar are destined to be together, then let it happen soon. Caleb needs to find a girlfriend with better hair. And Kiley and Micah should never be mentioned again.

I'm giving this show a few episodes next season before I say bye-bye.

[dirtydi]

I think they have destroyed the character of Juliette. I used to root for her, not anymore. It is being written so ham-handed and HP is over the top.  I'm rooting for Avery and the baby. 

 

I was proud of the way Will looked at his father and tipped his head after his public admission.

[LotusFlower]

I did, and it was great! (Except for the part where she tells Coach to back off the no-raping talk for the sake of the team...or something. Tami would NEVER have said that!)

Oh, and add Tim Riggins to the Nashville I want as some kind of crooner working the clubs on Broadway. There's never enough Riggins on TV. #texasforever

Right! I was kind of watching it through my fingers, cuz I couldn't believe what they were doing, but it was brilliant. In total contrast to this show, which I also watch through my fingers, but for completely different reasons (I'm cringing at how badly written it is). #rigginsforever

[Sandman]

Loved the timing of the broadcast of Teddy's arrest. As usual, no one was paying any attention to anything that he does.

 

Ha! Ain't that the truth?

[Ohmo]

I have no words about the character assassination of Juliette. PPD is serious not cartoony. A little bit of nuance and subtlety would have helped this story line tremendously. Instead, she is throwing snow globes and stomping around every office in Nashville. JJ was great and deserves a better story line than crying while carrying a potato.

PPD is serious, but even if the story were done well, i think I'd still have issues with such a storyline being given to Juliette.  She's already had several bites of the "crap sandwich" in life.  Her childhood was horrendous. As an adult, I wasn't kidding myself that she'd start driving a mini-van. I figured that she'd jet off to her gigs with Cadance and a nanny in tow. Juliette would never be a typical mom, but based on what we saw of the character early in the series, I thought that Juliette would be there for her child due to what she had to endure. It almost doesn't matter to me that there is a medical explanation for what's happening. It's still happening and even if/when Juliette receives treatment, it will have been another thing to have heaped on her.  I know Juliette is a fictional character, but giving her PPD on top of everything else is cruel. It bugs me, and my upbringing was a good one---nothing like what Juliette had to endure.  I don't identify with her in that way, yet I'm still bothered by what is being done to her character.

[Quiche]

Except, she threw something at Avery trying to hit him while he was holding the baby & without a regard for the consequences. That's not someone who needs support, that's someone who needs a restraining order.

 

Yes, Juliette is at fault for this.  But Avery was also playing a part.  He was holding onto that baby.  He should have put the baby down in the crib and tried to comfort his wife.  Avery himself was acting like a self-righteous, hysterical prima donna.  And that's the way he has been acting for a couple of episodes.  

[mousegirl]

Thanks to some weird DVR dysfunction, Nashville didn't record last night (we had company, so TV was off) and I missed the grand finale.  And after reading all the comments here, and the recap, I can honestly say I don't give a flying you-know-what.

 

This show has gone completely around the bend.  It has almost no grounding in any kind of reality or genuine humanity (except maybe for the relationship between Deacon and Rayna).  Who are the damn writers on this thing, anyway?  100 stoned monkeys in a room full of typewriters?

 

Anyway, I'm pretty much done with it.  I may tune in for the first episode next season, just to see if Beverly's croaked and Deacon lives.  Then, on to better things like sorting my sock drawer and doing crossword puzzles.  

 

We had a magnificent, oh-so-rare, thunderstorm tonight here in Southern California.  Lots of desperately needed rain, lightning, thunder, even a little hail.  A thousand times better than anything Bizarro World Nashville would have provided.  Thanks, Mother Nature - YOU really know how to put on a show!

Edited May 15, 2015 by mousegirl

[Quiche]

You can watch the show on Hulu or On-Demand or at your cable tv website, and also at abc.com

I liked the episode.  

[backhometome]

I hardly think Avery is acting like a hysterical prima donna. He is putting his baby first. Juliette needs help and until she gets some Avery & baby should stay far away from her. 

[DeLurker]

This show has gone completely around the bend.  It has almost no grounding in any kind of reality or genuine humanity (except maybe for the relationship between Deacon and Rayna).  Who are the damn writers on this thing, anyway?  100 stoned monkeys in a room full of typewriters?

<snip>

We had a magnificent, oh-so-rare, thunderstorm tonight here in Southern California.  Lots of desperately needed rain, lightning, thunder, even a little hail.  A thousand times better than anything Bizarro World Nashville would have provided.  Thanks, Mother Nature - YOU really know how to put on a show!

Again, the show benefits greatly from the talent and appeal of CB & CE.  As written, it is pretty awful.

 

Used to live in the Pasadena area and thunderstorms are rare!  The first time I experienced one and the sound rolls across the valleys was unforgettable.

 

But back to Nashville -

 

 

But Avery was also playing a part.  He was holding onto that baby.  He should have put the baby down in the crib and tried to comfort his wife.  Avery himself was acting like a self-righteous, hysterical prima donna.  And that's the way he has been acting for a couple of episodes.

Since this behavior has been going on for a couple of weeks, it seems reasonable that he would be highly stressed over the situation for an extended time.  Expecting him to handle the situation like a trained mental healthcare professional wouldn't be reasonable IMO.

 

I think the storyline has been so poorly crafted that JJ and HP are making the best of a mess, but there is only so much they can salvage.

[raytch]

That's it.

I won't be back for this show next fall.

 

it wasn't a bad episode but Jesus what is up with dragging story lines just to have the most predictable season finale ever?

 

We knew Deacon was going to get the liver eventually just like we know he is gonna live and Bev is gonna die.

We knew the Juliette stuff was gonna escalate and cause a big hurdle between her and Avery.

We knew Scarlett and Gunnar were gonna end up leaning towards one another despite trying so hard to move on and go in different directions.

We knew Teddy was going to jail.

We knew Lyla was gonna be in way over her head with Jeff in some way.

 

The Deacon dreams were incredibly ridiculous.

 

I've been defending Juliette since she started showing signs of post partum and I thought it was an interesting place for her character to be, but I agree with most of you saying that yes, she has crossed too many lines. I don't get why it's written the way it is. We don't see her struggling with any of it or even sitting alone, we only see her interacting with other people and acting crazy and thus proving them even more right that yes, maybe she has gone crazy. It's going to be one hell of a redemption arc because again, we don't see her struggle with it. Still, Hayden and Avery did a great job as usual.

 

Lyla and Jeff is just not happening. Are we supposed to feel anything for Jeff? Or are we supposed to be genuinely creeped out by the whole thing? Because I'm genuinely creeped out.

 

Rayna and Deacon's vows exchange was lovely, still didn't make it up for the horrible bad dreams sequences.

 

The thing I enjoyed the most is the Scarlet and Gunnar song.

 

Will and Kevin continue to be the bright spot for me. That scene of them sitting in the end and looking sad as hell while holding hands... Damn.

Their love is revelation, but also, and mostly a complication. I'm interested to see where the show goes from there.

 

I guess I'll be popping in from time to time to check on things. But this season has proven to me that this is no longer the show I signed up for in season 1.

The show I was interested in was focused on women in the country music business, and the characters around them. A lot of people kept nagging about how nothing was happening for the most of season 1, but I felt like we were getting to know the characters, chilling in their shoes for a good while. I don't mind the soap but when it takes over character development and you can see the end of a story arc just as its starting out and still you have to wait for 10 episodes to get it to the denouement... I'm sorry but that's not a show I can be invested in.

[CofCinci]

I completely agree.

The problem is that they started out that relationship very differently from where they are now. Not to mention Layla's character but she isn't the only one with a character transplant on this show.

They started it as a way to humanize Jeff from the completely one-dimensional record exec villain with an actual connection between the two. Those stories are horrible, look up Ronnie Spektor on wikipedia and your blood will freeze. That actually happened. They could have gone for that storyline since it's very common in the history of the music business, but they didn't start the story that way and then took a detour and in bringing their two plots together they kind of ended up with 50 Shades of Gray?!

I don't think they know what they are doing but then again, it irks me that they even mentioned Alanis Morissette by name in connection to Layla's character, have her physically resemble her style, have her character trajectory almost copy her story....It's like an almost biopic down to the triggered body disorder forced on Layla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbrbhJttNu8

'Hands Clean' is actually about her relationship with Taylor Hawkins (Foo Fighters). Alanis entered into a relationship with him when he was 16. Circle of abuse continues.

[Sandman]

How slow a news day does it have to be in Nashville for Teddy to get any attention, anyway?

 

Newscaster Lady: "Local guitar hero, ace drinker-songwriter heartthrob Deacon Claybourne has been diagnosed with cancer. Nashville in mourning. Up-and-coming superstar Will Lexington comes out as gay! Nashville also in shock! Film at eleven. In other news, the mayor's going to federal prison or something. Next up, video of a cat wearing a Stetson goes viral, breaks Tennessee's internet."

Edited May 16, 2015 by Sandman

[HeatherinThailand]

It's not often that I swear at a tv show (ok, who am I kidding, it's pretty often) but I definitely had some choice words for this finale. All I have to say is, they are freaking lucky they got a fourth season, cause if this had been their series finale, heads would have rolled. I think everyone has been PRETTY CLEAR that we like our Avery and Juliette happy and boring, yet we are tortured by extreme over the top post partum behavior leading to exploding multiple people's lives.

And WTF show? With the song and the flatlining? I mean, for emotion, it would be better for Deacon to get killed off, because who is really going to miss Beverly? She doesn't have a single redeeming quality. But that would mean no more meltingly sweet duets, which is the only time I can handle Rayna's singing, so I certainly hope Deacon survives. I was all set up to love the season finale three episodes ago, and instead its only redeeming quality was Will finally growing a pair. Let's hope Season 4 gets back to a happy place.

[thaliasghost]

'Hands Clean' is actually about her relationship with Taylor Hawkins (Foo Fighters). Alanis entered into a relationship with him when he was 16. Circle of abuse continues.

 

 

That is actually not correct. The song is not about him. They didn't know each other when she was 16 and didn't have a relationship. She did write a song about him and there is justified resentment between them but is has nothing to do with the song nor a dysfunctional relationship.

 

Hands Clean is about her former producer whom she was in a "relationship" with when she was 14.

[Sandman]

Also, Taylor Hawkins is two years older than Morissette.

[HannahJane]

It would be too easy for Bev to die. I was thinking perhaps they had to bring her back and she was without oxygen for a long time so she may have complications. That leaves it open for her to need long term help, so Rayna brings her into her own home so they can care for her. Hilarity ensues. *eye roll*

 

And I just can't with this political corruption storyline. Anything involving Lamar/Tandy/Teddy has been pretty dull from the beginning. Now what? Jailhouse scenes? Court scenes? Yawn. Convenient to have Teddy out of the way now though so the girls can live full time with Deacon and Rayna in their marital bliss.

 

I was really hoping that the final scene would be Layla fighting with Jeff and they tussle in the street with the cliffhanger of who got hit. Jeff is so hateful. I am wondering what the writers are plotting for his end game? Didn't I read that Oliver Hudson was leaving the show?

[thaliasghost]

 

 

 

I was really hoping that the final scene would be Layla fighting with Jeff and they tussle in the street with the cliffhanger of who got hit. Jeff is so hateful. I am wondering what the writers are plotting for his end game? Didn't I read that Oliver Hudson was leaving the show?

 

 

Yes, I was surprised they involved him so prominently in the storylines (not only with Layla but also becoming Juliette's manager) because Oliver Hudson tweeted that. On being congratulated on the renewal he tweeted that he hadn't signed a contract and didn't know if he was going to be on the show. He also was cast for another show.

[Woebegone]

 

Yes, I was surprised they involved him so prominently in the storylines (not only with Layla but also becoming Juliette's manager) because Oliver Hudson tweeted that. On being congratulated on the renewal he tweeted that he hadn't signed a contract and didn't know if he was going to be on the show. He also was cast for another show.

 

I read at least one article that said his leading role on Scream Queens wasn't going to interfere with his ability to stay on Nashville, but then I hadn't heard the tweets either. Now I'm thinking we might get a few episodes where he shows up as a guest star to wrap up any loose threads regarding him, Luke, and Layla. A shame, really. Jeff's a good villain.

 

Edited to add that I think I find the whole thing with Juliette hinges on how much we can reasonably fault someone for their actions while suffering mental illness. If we accept that PPD is as bad as, say, schizophrenia, would we be as likely to call her a monster? I mean, there is apparently a rare form of PPD called Postpartum Psychosis that actually fits how Juliette is acting...

Edited May 16, 2015 by Woebegone

[Sandman]

Avery may have contributed to some escalation of the argument, but I sincerely doubt that offering or attempting to comfort Juliette in the nursery would have solved anything. I don't think she would have welcomed it, and she might, given her mood at the time, have considered it condescending. I think he was right to protect the baby. It's hard to say that's overreaction, when breakable objects are being thrown.

 

I agree that the portrayal of post-partum depression has been sensationalized and irresponsible, but it's not like any number of mental or physical illnesses, including alcoholism, depression, and cancer, have been treated realistically on the show.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Sandman

[thaliasghost]

I read at least one article that said his leading role on Scream Queens wasn't going to interfere with his ability to stay on Nashville, but then I hadn't heard the tweets either. Now I'm thinking we might get a few episodes where he shows up as a guest star to wrap up any loose threads regarding him, Luke, and Layla. A shame, really. Jeff's a good villain.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, we will see. I wondered if he was trying to get more money out of it or something. Aubrey Peebles has just been cast in another show as well so they better work out their schedules.

[hqtextbook]

Most definitely! And it speaks to a larger problem. I think what annoys me most is that I really want this to be a girl-power show, and it's just not. I want Rayna and her gorgeous hair to rule Nashville like a total boss, while mentoring Scarlett and Layla and encouraging the badass traits that make Juliette great. They should all struggle in ways that are appropriate to their ages and life experiences, but also be centered and capable and smart. I want the men these women are partnered with to be solid, interesting people in their own right who grow and evolve as the women do. I want a stable relationship and family with a 50/50 partnership at the helm. Basically I want Tami Taylor, Sheryl Sandberg, and Martina McBride to take on country music with their hot, talented fellas. They can show us why that's hard, rewarding, exciting, cool, etc. But this show is never going to be that show, and it's highly disappointing.

Petition for MADAM MAGPIE to replace all the writers on this show? Please?? I mean HELL YES to all the above. 

 

Seriously though I think I might be out. I can't stand watching the writers assassinate the characters they build up over and over. Its lazy, terrible writing AND they are missing out on the potential to have an awesome women-empowering masterpiece here (sometimes they get soooo close and then just blow it all up like they did in this finale). 

 

-I have been defending JB all season, but yeah, I cant anymore. At this point the writers just ruined it all. Rayna's label is better off without her and so is avery. I can't believe she ran back to jeff. Really? is that like the writer's go-to move?

 

-Rayna is just not the strong, consistent, nurturing business leader that I wish she was. She honestly sucks at running this label and she's not taking care of any of her artists ALL of whom are slipping through the cracks professionally and emotionally. 

 

-Scarlett and gunner.... really? I wish could root for them, but hes a whiny bitch and she's coming across as weak and powerless (which is SUCH a bummer because just a few weeks ago she was such a happy powerhouse in the triple exes. And with deacon. WHY WHY must they ruin everything??).

 

-Layla. Again, ive tried to defend her this whole season. I think she's the most underrated voice on the show. But why are they making her this stupid and weak girl instead of letting her take some ownership of her career? I just don't buy that she falls for these abusive tricks that easily. Its gross and getting old. 

 

-Will was almosssstt a good storyline (I mean too little too late but still) but then they just used his coming out to forward juliette and luke's story lines. They took a huge moment and kind of diminished by giving the effect to someone else. not cool.

 

I love the music on this show and I'll keep listening to that till its over. And I'm ok with unrealistic stretches about the music industry like switching labels and producing an album in 2 days, but I am so done with the writers ruining every good character and moment they create. Kbye i'll be re-watching FNL in an attempt to forget the character massacre that was that finale. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by hqtextbook

[raytch]

Madame Magpie, I agree with your post above. I'm on my phone so I can't quote it but I hope you see this.

I honestly wonder how Connie Britton is okay with all this. She's such a great feminist and I remember her refusing Peter Berg's offer for FNL because she did not want to play the role of the supportive wife who sacrifices her life for her husband. The only reason she eventually took the role was because Berg told her that she will get to portray so much more than that. Which she totally did.

[thaliasghost]

Petition for MADAM MAGPIE to replace all the writers on this show? Please?? I mean HELL YES to all the above. 

 

Seriously though I think I might be out. I can't stand watching the writers assassinate the characters they build up over and over. Its lazy, terrible writing AND they are missing out on the potential to have an awesome women-empowering masterpiece here (sometimes they get soooo close and then just blow it all up like they did in this finale). 

 

-Layla. Again, ive tried to defend her this whole season. I think she's the most underrated voice on the show. But why are they making her this stupid and weak girl instead of letting her take some ownership of her career? I just don't buy that she falls for these abusive tricks that easily. Its gross and getting old. 

 

 

 

 

-Yes, to that! I'm TOTALLY there for her vision for the show.

 

-I keep listening to her "My heart don't know when to stop", "Blind" and "If your heart can handle it" over and over again at the moment. Let her sing! Also: as somebody else said - all that Jeff has done for her could have been achieved by herself with a tumblr account so let us actually see him be good for her career and showcase her "suffering made her a brilliant songwriter" arc. The whole point of them being together was that they are better together than apart professionally.

 

Unlike most people, I actually love Layla and I do want her to be together with Jeff, but I'm very unhappy with what this textbook abuse storyline projects and it's already playing out elsewhere with people romanticizing/glorifying abuse against women through that plot. Layla is extremely young and inexperienced but  they also showed her to be both book- and street smart. Although I have to say, rewatching it: she is figuring out everything Jeff did rather quickly and she actually is shown being smart there. 

 

I know that this keeps happening to women in the music industry over and over regardless of how capable and smart they are (just think Kesha/Dr. Luke) I just don't like it played out this way with them.

 

But I should probably move over to the Season 4 Wishlist Thread.

 

I can say one thing already, stop isolating the characters from each other only playing against their storyline. There should be a Nashville-test: does one character have a conversation with another character on the show.

[thaliasghost]

I have a general question here.

 

I have been rewatching all the Jeff/Layla scenes and I noticed that he constantly refers to her by her name. Not in a calling her from a distance kind of way, but adressing her with her name while he speaks to her constantly.

 

This is not what people do, is it? Is this something that Americans do? Do the other character do this? Is this supposed to emphasize him treating her a like a child?

[Soup333]

I have a general question here.

 

I have been rewatching all the Jeff/Layla scenes and I noticed that he constantly refers to her by her name. Not in a calling her from a distance kind of way, but adressing her with her name while he speaks to her constantly.

 

This is not what people do, is it? Is this something that Americans do? Do the other character do this? Is this supposed to emphasize him treating her a like a child?

 

I think it's supposed to be emphasizing the way he's treating her. I can't think of him doing it with Rayna or Juliette. I would have never noticed it if you hadn't said it.

[vibeology]

Oh, and fakest prop baby ever in some scenes!!

 

Didn't you know the American Sniper Baby has the best agent in the business?

 

She'll continue to spiral, get help, flashback to the Hell that was her childhood and we'll feel for her again. I really surprised of the universal hatred of her all around. I see someone who was already a mess and now has hormonal postpartum stuff on top of that. I feel so badly for her.

 

I totally want to be sympathetic to Juliette because PPD is horrible and such a struggle but this storyline is tiring and so predictable. The writers won't even sit down for months to write the next season's scripts and we all know the way its going to play out. If the plot is that predictable you can't drag it out for episodes because it just gets boring and tedious when it should be moving. 

 

And I agree the doctor would not go to Rayna with bad news about Beverly, since her next of kin was right there -- well, out on the hospital roof top lounge, duetting. 

 

I have, unfortunately, spent some time in hospitals and I've never encountered one with a lovely rooftop lounge perfect for romantic moments. What was that?

 

A few weeks back I was all for Jeff and Layla but I can't cheer for such an unhealthy relationship. It had the potential to go one way, where two people at the bottom work together to get back up, but instead its Jeff being creepy, abusive and scary while Layla is basically alone in the house where she almost died. 

[jjj]

I have, unfortunately, spent some time in hospitals and I've never encountered one with a lovely rooftop lounge perfect for romantic moments. What was that?

Yeah, that was my point -- the writers acted like the hospital was a cruise ship with a romantic concierge lounge for moments like that! 

[Sandman]

Didn't you know the American Sniper Baby has the best agent in the business?

 

A baby sniper? Is she known for her expert diaper-marksmanship? Can she hit Jeff with an pantload, preferably before he manages to lift his leg and pee all over Will's relationship with CGS Kevin?

Edited May 17, 2015 by Sandman

[Bort]

Yeah, that was my point -- the writers acted like the hospital was a cruise ship with a romantic concierge lounge for moments like that!

Hey, it's Nashville. The city is full of more music-industry people than usual, so I'm sure there was a heavy demand for a musician-friendly outdoor lounge intended for grief-inspired jam/writing sessions. [/sarcasm]

[Soup333]

Somebody with knowledge of the music industry help me out here. So...much ado was made about Rayna buying out her contract/HW65 for $20 million. I'm assuming Juliette's contract would be less since she doesn't have a label attached to it. Could she have opted to leave if she cut a check to Rayna? Would Luke be the one buying her out? I'm also assuming that it's more complicated that switching cell phone carriers and having the new carrier buy out your old contract, but I don't know. 

 

Also, Avery had to have produced some of the songs on that album. At least three: One by One, because we saw them working on it at the studio, Mississippi Flood probably and possibly Disappear. So...was he working for HW65 or could he have been like an independent producer doing his own thing kinda how I perceived Howie V. was in S2? I was only thinking he may have been actually employed by HW65 because he was producing Scarlett, then Sadie, then Juliette. But, again, I don't know how any of this works.

[LadyMustang65]

First off, I agree that Deacon won't die.  That would be the stupidest thing the show could possibly do, as from what I can see, Deacon is probably the most universally beloved character on the show.  But I disagree that there is anything wrong with Beverly.  Maybe I'm a complete idiot for expecting anything remotely logical from this show, but it seems to me that, if it were Beverly, the first thing the doctor would have said to Rayna is - Deacon's fine, but we have a problem.  He would have to be the world's worst most uncaring jackass not to reassure his patient's fiancée first because that's where her mind is going to go as soon as he says there's a problem.  Not to mention where the patient's daughter's mind will go.  Maybe the writers really are so bad at their jobs, but I think the problem is something to do with Deacon.  Either they nicked something with consequences or his heart stopped temporarily or something else but I'm expecting a repeat of the beginning of Season 2 (I think) except Deacon will be in a coma instead of Rayna.  He will of course come out of it after a couple of episodes (maybe even in the season opener) and be perfectly fine.  But they will actually manage to surprise me if it's Beverly.  That would make me hate Dr. Boyfriend for putting Rayna, Maddie and Daphne into a panic and for not even bothering to ask for Scarlett since Beverly is her mother.  Again maybe if it's Beverly we're supposed to believe he defaulted to Rayna as being the only adult in the room at the time, but if it were Beverly (and again I may be expecting too much logic from this show), I would have expected him to ask first where Scarlett was.  If it's Deacon, then it makes sense for him to default straight to Rayna as the fiancée.  YMMV.  And I may be completely and totally wrong.  The rest of my family thinks it's Beverly, too.

[thaliasghost]

Didn't you know the American Sniper Baby has the best agent in the business?

 

 

I totally want to be sympathetic to Juliette because PPD is horrible and such a struggle but this storyline is tiring and so predictable. The writers won't even sit down for months to write the next season's scripts and we all know the way its going to play out. If the plot is that predictable you can't drag it out for episodes because it just gets boring and tedious when it should be moving. 

 

 

I have, unfortunately, spent some time in hospitals and I've never encountered one with a lovely rooftop lounge perfect for romantic moments. What was that?

 

A few weeks back I was all for Jeff and Layla but I can't cheer for such an unhealthy relationship. It had the potential to go one way, where two people at the bottom work together to get back up, but instead its Jeff being creepy, abusive and scary while Layla is basically alone in the house where she almost died. 

 

 

All of this.

 

I would love if they had actually done a realistic story about Juliette having PPD to raise awareness or a realistic story about Juliette dealing with a woman after-baby with the music industry, but they just used it to turn her into a pregnant woman cliche and unlikable bitch destroying every good thing she has in her life.

 

Depression means hating yourself, it doesn't mean becoming totally irrational and lashing out against others.

 

They took so much time to turn Juliette into a person who had gone through so much and everybody was rooting for, they spend so much time turning Avery turning into a person everybody was rooting for, that relationship bringing out the best in them, all the other relationships, Juliette and Rayna, Juliette and Deacon - they did all of them such a disservice with the way they played out this storyline. Not to mention that if they want to portray the music industry they can't just make shit up. Juliette can't just hop labels like that.

 

That baby prop is so so fake. At least don't do any close ups with such a fake baby! It's hard to watch these scenes because it is so obvious Avery is cradling a plastic doll. That hospital rooftop is bizarre. Give them a crappy hallway in a hospital huddled on the floor. Much better scene.

 

They messed up Layla/Jeff so badly, going in a thousand different directions at once. You want to do a Jeff redemption story, turning him from the one-dimensional villain into somebody who actually has something to lose? Ok. You want to show us an inappropriate desperate love story? Ok. You want a little power play but character development for them? Ok You want an abusive relationship with a creepy jerk taking advantage of a young female artist as it happens in the music industry? ok But not all at once!

 

I know! Wouldn't they at one point have a conversation how she almost died in that place? You'd think so! What is this story going to become - The Yellow Wallpaper?!?

 

I see how they were playing out Jeff's scheming with the house. It made no sense for him to hang out at Layla's apartment all the time until we know now that he was only there to manipulate Layla into ending up a prisoner in his mansion. The moment she signed the contract she was in his house like he planned all along. Or not because they don't know what they are doing with the storyline anyway.

 

Speaking of what is going on with these writers: realistically, Jeff would have never fallen from grace to end up in his underwear in Layla's living room, suddenly being her manager. A guy with that kind of power, money and success is always going to end up on top and a CEO doesn't just turn into a manager. Those are two different jobs!

 

They started out Jeff helping Layla, emphasizing how the two of them together were actually great for her career.

 

I'm not quite sure about the scene with the interview. Should I hate it because suddenly Layla is his freaking parrot? Or should I understand the "Nice work" comment in a way that there is a whole lot of scene were they are actually working together that we don't see.

 

Because when Layla isn't edited to be in a reality tv show, they have shown her to own the media. We are talking about a young woman who was runner up in a singing competiton show going for 12 weeks - she knew how to work the media to get where she is and get the record contract out of it that is actually going places.

 

We are talking about the same person whose idea the "relationship for the media" with Will will make us more popular initially was. The same person that knew what to do to get Scarlett in trouble and knew how to work the red carpet. The same person that snitched out Juliette to the tabloids and knew just whom to call, the same person who knew how to play the media to get Juliette out of that again and have a favor with her etc. etc.

 

That person would know how to work a radio interview! She would work with Jeff for a great interview, not just parrot his words.

 

Argh. I could go on forever. I want them together, I was all for it but I have no freaking clue what the writers are doing with this. At least make Jeff becoming a possessive asshole actually believable. In one episode he is all, we had some fun but come on, I don't do emotions/meaningful relationships. The next Layla is the twisted to be abused love of his life (this is not love)?

[SailingBy]

So...much ado was made about Rayna buying out her contract/HW65 for $20 million. I'm assuming Juliette's contract would be less since she doesn't have a label attached to it. Could she have opted to leave if she cut a check to Rayna? Would Luke be the one buying her out?

Music industry contracts are notoriously slanted towards the benefit of the record labels and/or production companies, not the artists, who also often sign them when they're still at a stage in their career when they really haven't got much to bargain with, and are grateful to get a contract at all. And of course any contract can always be dissolved if all the parties to it can agree on terms for doing so, including buyout sums. But I would be very surprised if any contract with a label included a clause that would allow an artist to end it, one-sidedly, if they simply pay a predetermined buyout sum. For one, when such a contract is signed, nobody can know what the artist's commercial value may be in a few years time. If an artist's career has tanked, a label would probably be happy to let them go for not too much money. If there's still money to be made off them, they're at least going to insist on more money than they could otherwise make from the artist for the rest of the duration of the contract.

 

Nashville has exactly the same problem as Empire in this regard. A lot of the drama requires artists and producers and labels to have constantly shifting allegiances, with contracts seemingly being able to be torn up at a moment's notice, and by one side only. But real-world recording contracts have been carefully drafted by very expensive lawyers exactly to make that kind of thing impossible. (In one particularly ludicrous this-can-never-happen plot twist on Empire, they even have one artist on whom the label has already spent a huge amount of money turn out to have never signed a contract at all.)

 

Also, Avery had to have produced some of the songs on that album. At least three: One by One, because we saw them working on it at the studio, Mississippi Flood probably and possibly Disappear. So...was he working for HW65 or could he have been like an independent producer doing his own thing kinda how I perceived Howie V. was in S2? I was only thinking he may have been actually employed by HW65 because he was producing Scarlett, then Sadie, then Juliette. But, again, I don't know how any of this works.

Producers these days normally work in one of two ways. (1) As independent contractors for record labels. The artists are under contract with the label, the label then hires a producer for them (with a contract of his own, of course), on a per-project basis. A project could be anything from one track, to an album, or whatever else is agreed on. Alternatively (2) producers can set up their own production company, and have artists under contract with them. The finished product can then be sold onto a label for sales and marketing. So in that setup, the artists have no direct contractual relationship with the label. (Throughout, "label" here means "record company", not to be confused with what in print publishing is called the "imprint", IOW just a product name that's put on the boxes. Vanity labels are an example of this, they're in reality just subsidiaries of a larger company. But large record companies also often use different imprints for different genres of music, which are sometimes loosely referred to as "labels".)

 

[madam magpie]

Juliette is an established commodity, though, and Rayna acknowledged that they'd agreed to give Juliette creative control. So it's possible Juliette had an out. It would have been nice if the show had said so, however. And you'd think Luke, as the head of his own business, would care and want to know what her current contract is.

Also, to clarify, an imprint in print publishing isn't just a name on a box. It's a branded division of a larger publisher that produces a certain kind of book. For example the Simon and Schuster children's imprint Little Simon won't publish adult novels. It's the same with record label imprints, I believe.

Rayna started her own, small record label. She's not big enough to have imprints yet. There are plenty of small print publishers like that as well, though many have been gobbled up by large companies and then become imprints of those. I'd like to know what Rayna's vision for her label is. Bucky has mentioned artists who don't fit the Hwy65 brand, but I have no idea what her brand actually is.

Edited May 18, 2015 by madam magpie

[thaliasghost]

 but I have no idea what her brand actually is.

 

Since she never signed anybody but Juliette (going from country-pop sexpot to serious musician being burned by conservative country industry), Sadie (independent strong singer songwriter), Scarlett (wistful sensitive singer songwriter) and Layla ("country pop starlet cum I found my blue-sy voice songer songwriter) and Gunnar, I'd say her brand is very clearly women with something to say.

[madam magpie]

Since she never signed anybody but Juliette (going from country-pop sexpot to serious musician being burned by conservative country industry), Sadie (independent strong singer songwriter), Scarlett (wistful sensitive singer songwriter) and Layla ("country pop starlet cum I found my blue-sy voice songer songwriter) and Gunnar, I'd say her brand is very clearly women with something to say.

Gunnar is a woman with something to say? Who knew?!

If I were guessing, I'd say her brand was artists looking for refuge, which is, of course, what she said she wanted. But that's not a sound, and it's fairly limiting. If she's open to diverse sounds under that umbrella, I'd like to see them. If she's not, I'd like to hear why. This kind of discussion is one way to make Rayna seem good at her job.

Edited May 18, 2015 by madam magpie

[SailingBy]

Also, to clarify, an imprint in print publishing isn't just a name on a box. It's a branded division of a larger publisher that produces a certain kind of book. For example the Simon and Schuster children's imprint Little Simon won't publish adult novels. It's the same with record label imprints, I believe.

 

Yes, but my point was that an author whose books are published with the Little Simon imprint on them doesn't have a contract with a legal entity called Little Simon, he has a contract with Simon & Schuster (if it is indeed a pure imprint, and not a subsidiary). If S&S decide to discard that imprint, they can continue to publish those same books under a different imprint. There are plenty of authors who have seen their books published under a succession of imprints, but all by the same company under the same contract, just as there are musical artists who've seen their material re-released under a variety of "label" names, as publishing and record companies change branding decisions, or rearrange their internal divisional structures.

 

The situation with vanity labels is slightly different, since they're set up as separately incorporated subsidiaries. As long as they're wholly owned by the mother company, in practice they work much like an imprint. The difference is what would happen when the mother company decides to sell, or simply close down, such a vanity label, since the people under contract to it do not have a direct contract with the mother company.

Edited May 18, 2015 by SailingBy

[SailingBy]

Since she never signed anybody but Juliette (going from country-pop sexpot to serious musician being burned by conservative country industry), Sadie (independent strong singer songwriter), Scarlett (wistful sensitive singer songwriter) and Layla ("country pop starlet cum I found my blue-sy voice songer songwriter) and Gunnar, I'd say her brand is very clearly women with something to say.

She also tried but failed to sign Will, a man who was trying very hard not to say anything. But no, it doesn't add up to a very coherent idea of what her label is about musically, does it?

 

I had to go back to look at some old episodes to check something I vaguely remembered. As always the legal details remain murky, but what it looks most like to me is that Highway 65 (or however they spell it) was originally set up as Rayna's vanity label, as a subsidiary of Edgehill. Or at least bound to Edgehill by so many contractual obligations that it might as well be wholly owned by it. Thus, she could later buy it off Edgehill.

Edited May 18, 2015 by SailingBy

[madam magpie]

It really depends entirely on the contract. There are certainly authors (I feel like I've read that Stephen King is one, but can't swear to it) who have clauses in their contracts that don't allow for their work to be transferred in the case of a sale, closure, etc. The larger publisher only owns rights to what the contract allows. I forget the name of that clause, but work with writers who have it. Like most things in life, it's all about power. If you have the power to negotiate clauses that benefit you, you probably do. If you have no power, you usually don't. On Nashville, for instance, Juliette has power; Layla doesn't. So I think it's realistic to assume that Juliette probably had (has?) a much more artist-friendly contract than Layla does. But I think it's poor storytelling to frame an entire plot point around that and never actually mention or explain it for your audience.

I can't speak to vanity labels directly. I've no idea how those work, though I suspect it also has a lot to do with how much power the artist in question has in the industry. When it comes to contract negotiation, you can get a lot if you have a lot of clout.

Yes, Hwy65 did start out as a vanity label, and then Rayna bought it. I imagine you could do the same thing with a print publisher's imprint if you had the money and the publisher wanted to sell.

Edited May 18, 2015 by madam magpie