Season 11 Anticipation More Stabs, etc...

[ForeverAlone]

Probably not, because there is very little interesting Dirty Dozen stuff so far. Basically, supposedly the Dirty Dozen the hitmen are targeting are supposed to be Penelope's computers (though the "evidence" for that is rather thin in my opinion). And because Penelope is supposedly the target, she has been living at the FBI HQ for weeks now. But at the end of episode 10, Hotch came running in and said they might have the information they need to take down the network. And that....is pretty much everything we have seen so far, so anything we see in Entropy is probably new information. Like hopefully, why the hell her computers are so important (and by extension, Penelope), that a group of hitmen needed to target her (and why didn't they just kill her before  if she is such a threat, because apparently nobody else has the computer skills she does). 

Edited December 16, 2015 by ForeverAlone

[missmycat]

I am hoping, and I admit it's probably a vain hope, that one of the things that will play apart in bringing these hit men down is that they were so fixated on Penelope Garcia and her so called magic computer that they failed to recognize the real threat to them.That being Dr.Spencer Reid and that big ole brain of his.

[SSAHotchner]

OK does this mean I actually have to watch the Reidless episodes to understand the Dirty Dozen nonsense?

Do you care? Actually, I have watched all the episodes and I still don't understand the Dirty Dozen stuff. I also don't care. :) I wouldn't care if the Dirty Dozen, or anyone else, killed Garcia either.

[normasm]

SSAH, that makes me sad. I'm close to that feeling, but I'll see this to the bitter end, at least of Season 11...

[SSAHotchner]

SSAH, that makes me sad. I'm close to that feeling, but I'll see this to the bitter end, at least of Season 11...

Oh, I'll keep watching...unless Hotch leaves. But I don't care what happens to Garcia.

[Danielg342]

I wonder if all this stuff about Morgan leaving is just a misdirect in order to have Garcia actually be the one who'll leave. Morgan can still have a big arc with Garcia being the one who drives it.

I'll also suggest that there's no reason that “Derek” has to refer to Morgan (although it's likely) and even though logic might dictate that because of what was said before and how the episodes (for now) shape up, Morgan is the one most likely to leave it's still not a guarantee. The CM writers had us all in a panic that Reid would be gone after S9, but instead Blake was the one who left. A similar thing could happen here.

Whatever happens...well, I'll be very disappointed if Morgan leaves, because he's still my favourite character, even if what made him that hasn't been present for years. At the very least, I hope he isn't killed- I don't think I could go back to CM if that were the case.

[normasm]

I knew Matthew wasn't leaving in S9, but I was hoping that JT would stay. Why does anyone have to leave? Unless this is something that SM really wants and postponed because of multiple pregnancies, there was no real need to replace JLH. They could have had the Tara character come in as a psych consultant on a truly part time basis (instead of going into the Instant Ninja Agent Phonebooth), and this would have added interest and diversity, shaking up the formula. They just don't need 6 profilers.

 

I will miss Derek, I have liked his character all along, even when it became less and less well-written. The show won't be the same without him.

[Danielg342]

Erica Messer has shown, time and again, that she can't or won't do a storyline for our characters that doesn't involve family or someone in peril, so the Dirty Dozen is par for the course. I do agree, the stories are getting old now.

If I was writing for Morgan, I'm not sure I'd have Savannah. He would have been a “career man” that puts his job before having any kind of love life. I always liked to fanwank that Morgan doesn't have a degree and got to where he is through instincts and a lot of hard work- perhaps by being the hardest working guy in the FBI. He'd be the kind of guy that would be friends with everyone and be like a sponge sucking in all this information that all the other agencies can provide. This is because Morgan's ambitions would cause him to crave more and more responsibilities, eventually to the point where he could lead a team one day.

Thus, I think over the years, Hotch and Morgan should have butted heads, because Morgan would want his job. I wouldn't make Morgan someone who'd try to undermine Hotch and take his job away- Morgan has too much respect to do that- but Morgan would always be the one who'd disagree with tactics and even come up with his own. This could eventually grow to the point where Morgan and Hotch essentially become equals, with Morgan leading “the field” and Hotch leading “the paperwork”.

So, if Morgan had to leave at some point after S5, it would have been because he's “graduated” and become the task force leader he should already be.

[normasm]

I'm no expert on the qualifications for FBI/BAU, but i'm pretty sure you at least have to have a college degree. I have no problem believing the Morgan character has at least an undergraduate degree, maybe even a Masters, in some sort of criminology. Morgan was ambitious from early on, so he wouldn't have been making it on his "gut" or his "street smarts", he'd be excelling in the areas his expertise (used to) be in, bombs and obsessional crimes. This indicates further study after he got into the FBI, or perhaps he went into these studies farther back as a cop, and decided to deepen and broaden his education so he could become an FBI agent.

 

In addition to these qualifications, I agree Morgan would be a sponge, and the hardest-working guy in the FBI. As we've seen several times on the show, some make the assumption he's just an Affirmative Action dumbass, so he would be sure of his qualifications beyond just his instincts. My fanwank, at least. 

 

(BTW, if he's an Affirmative Action dumbass, then so am I).

[jaytee1812]

Morgan has mentioned going to college, I'm sure he got a football scholarship. The guy who abused him helped him get in.

He has said he was previously bomb squad and he was a police officer.

[Danielg342]

I had another thought- what if Morgan's arc is all about falling in love with Garcia?

(Everyone is finished hurling...all right, moving on...)

The last time we had an episode with a team member's first name in it was “Penelope”, and, since Morgan is Garcia's best friend (arguably), I wonder if “Derek” was named as a reference to that, especially considering “Penelope” showed a side of the Morgan-Garcia friendship we didn't see before.

I also know that Savannah is due to appear in “Entropy”...could it be as a prelude to a break up in “Derek” or episode 18?

[Droogie]

I think Morgan actually has a law degree, although I don't recall any mention of him actually practicing.

[ForeverAlone]

Well...technically speaking the last time we had an episode with a character's (actual) name was JJ and that was her departure episode (the same with Lauren, even if that was a fake name). I honestly would start throwing stuff at the TV in anger if they pulled this Morgan/Penelope switch at this stage of the game, especially since they have spent 10 years showing this would never actually become a relationship. That is fan service at its worst in my opinion.

 

My current bets for Morgan's exit arc is that either Morgan gets injured in Derek and realizes he needs a different sort of career, or Savannah finds out she is pregnant and Morgan doesn't want to possibly die in the line of duty like his father (or hell, a combination of the two). I doubt they will kill Morgan, because if they were going to do that, they would not need an exit arc, but just kill him for shock value. But I don't think a Morgan death is necessary for this show. 

[Danielg342]

Maybe Morgan lands in the spin-off. It's a possibility.

[thewhiteowl]

Maybe Morgan lands in the spin-off. It's a possibility.

 

 I really wouldn't mind that.

[ReidFan]

Maybe Morgan lands in the spin-off. It's a possibility.

but that's more of a lateral move for him, I don't see him taking over for Gary Sinise's character. *shrug* and it'd make the distance between him and Savannah even worse. 

 

I'm not sure Shemar would be interested in it, to be honest. 

[smoker]

Well...technically speaking the last time we had an episode with a character's (actual) name was JJ and that was her departure episode (the same with Lauren, even if that was a fake name). I honestly would start throwing stuff at the TV in anger if they pulled this Morgan/Penelope switch at this stage of the game, especially since they have spent 10 years showing this would never actually become a relationship. That is fan service at its worst in my opinion.

 

My current bets for Morgan's exit arc is that either Morgan gets injured in Derek and realizes he needs a different sort of career, or Savannah finds out she is pregnant and Morgan doesn't want to possibly die in the line of duty like his father (or hell, a combination of the two). I doubt they will kill Morgan, because if they were going to do that, they would not need an exit arc, but just kill him for shock value. But I don't think a Morgan death is necessary for this show. 

 

it's a good idea, don't get me wrong, but well done it could fuel the show, the drama... Hotch and JJ didn't suffer Prentiss fate, Garcia would be profesional (a woman can dream...) this could be a great chance. The good wife made a great development thanks to a main character's departure, it was a shock and it was pretty well done. Sadly, writers will throw this chance in the same trash can they threw everything else

 

 

Erica Messer has shown, time and again, that she can't or won't do a storyline for our characters that doesn't involve family or someone in peril, so the Dirty Dozen is par for the course. I do agree, the stories are getting old now.

If I was writing for Morgan, I'm not sure I'd have Savannah. He would have been a “career man” that puts his job before having any kind of love life. 

So, if Morgan had to leave at some point after S5, it would have been because he's “graduated” and become the task force leader he should already be.

 

I share your opinion about Morgan being dedicated to his career, I think Rossi and Morgan are pretty much alike, but Morgan restoring houses instead of writing books

 

That's another way to let him go, he could be injured and then he could take the NY job

[missmycat]

I do believe the decision to make Morgan more of a homebody, hence the creation of Savannah, and less of a player and someone married to their career, was one of the things that made him less interesting for me.It would have made a hell of a lot more sense to have given Reid a permanent girlfriend before Morgan. If Big Bang Theory can give Sheldon, who like Reid is socially awkward, a girlfriend then there is no reason why CM couldn't have given Reid a girlfriend already. Not to mention, unlike Reid, Sheldon is also a bit vain and has a tendency to be rude. Of course I realize that he is oblivious to the fact that he can be rude at times. The point being if someone like Sheldon is able to find someone then why can't Reid.

 

[ForeverAlone]

Yes, Sheldon has punched his V card before Reid has (because I really don't see any evidence Reid has ever been in a relationship or had sex with anyone), and he's been in a committed relationship for the last five years. The difference between the way Sheldon and Reid's romantic lives are written is stark. 

 

Morgan is in his 40s, and men who are shameless players in their 40s are sad and pathetic, in my opinion. So I am perfectly okay with the change in Morgan. My only gripe is that Reid is the only one who hasn't had some sort of romantic success, and pretty much lives his life alone.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I think Morgan actually has a law degree, although I don't recall any mention of him actually practicing.

 

According to his entry on the CM Wikia page, Morgan went to Northwestern University on a football scholarship and was an honors graduate in law. There's no mention of him ever having practiced law, but as was mentioned he worked on the bomb squad when he was with the Chicago police department. I'm wondering now if that contradicts the story of the animus between him and Stan Gordinski,since Gordinski was the cop who hassled him all the time before Carl Buford stepped in. It seems unlikely that both things can be true, that a cop who had such open dislike of a younger Derek wouldn't stand in the way of his career with law enforcement, a "helpful" guy like Buford or no.

[ForeverAlone]

I can easily believe Morgan worked in the police force before joining the FBI. He likely worked in a different precinct than Gordinski, so he had no power over Morgan's career. Plus, with his juvenile record being sealed, it wouldn't have been picked up on a background check (which is apparently how the FBI missed it as well). 

[normasm]

According to his entry on the CM Wikia page, Morgan went to Northwestern University on a football scholarship and was an honors graduate in law. There's no mention of him ever having practiced law, but as was mentioned he worked on the bomb squad when he was with the Chicago police department. I'm wondering now if that contradicts the story of the animus between him and Stan Gordinski,since Gordinski was the cop who hassled him all the time before Carl Buford stepped in. It seems unlikely that both things can be true, that a cop who had such open dislike of a younger Derek wouldn't stand in the way of his career with law enforcement, a "helpful" guy like Buford or no.

That means he probably has a B.S in some law related specialty. He wouldn't have practiced law until he got his Juris Doctor, so he probably went into the police from there. If he wanted to, with his accumulated experience, he could probably get a J.D. in no time, and do the lawyer thing, marry a doctor, and have his own show!

[RearcherInReal]

Maybe Morgan lands in the spin-off. It's a possibility.

 There are tons of viewers who feel SICK of Morgan, the least popular male character.

Seriously, when has he become our favorite? It's always Reid and I bet more people feel enough is enough of Shemar centric at expense of Matthew aka Reid.

Shemar Moore or Morgan is never so popular as he can have a spin off. If some one had a spinoff, it should be Reid.

Edited December 20, 2015 by thewhiteowl

[Droogie]

There are tons of viewers who feel SICK of Morgan, the least popular male character.

Seriously, when has he become our favorite? It's always Reid and I bet more people feel enough is enough of Shemar centric at expense of Matthew aka Reid.

Shemar Moore or Morgan is never so popular as he can have a spin off. If some one had a spinoff, it should be Reid.

I've personally never felt that a lack of focus on Reid was due to Morgan. Due to overexposure of the UnSub? JJ? Garcia? Indubitably. But not Morgan. I get tired of angry, angsty Morgan as the only Morgan we see nowadays, and I could not care less about his relationship with Savannah, but I've never begrudged him his screen time. OK, maybe with the gratuitous opening scene of his running date with JJ, and another with his exercise PSA this season, but that's really it.

YMMV, but Morgan has a lot of fans.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Droogie

[ForeverAlone]

Promo episode for Entropy. I am getting excited for this episode, and if Breen fails in the writing of it, this season will be a miserable failure for me (even though the season is only halfway over).

 

http://criminalmindsroundtable.blogspot.com/2015/12/criminal-minds-season-11-1111-entropy_21.html

[Droogie]

That promo looks really really really (times infinity) good. I hope it lives up.

[ReidFan]

That promo looks really really really (times infinity) good. I hope it lives up.

I thought so too....but the people at That Other Place sure aren't liking it......

[ForeverAlone]

I thought so too....but the people at That Other Place sure aren't liking it......

That is because they don't tend to be Reid fans, and this is very much a Reid centric episode. I think I would have been more shocked if they liked it and looked forward to this episode. :)

[ReidFan]

she reached for his hand...I melted. And then she reached into his jacket.

[Old Dog]

I thought so too....but the people at That Other Place sure aren't liking it......

That doesn't surprise me given how they feel about Reid! I am excited by this promo - it does look as if we may finally get some suspense into the show. As long as they write it well, keep the team in character and don't make a damsel of Reid - I want him to save the day!

[normasm]

I'm happy to leave them to their feelings over there. This place is for everyone who is here, including people who don't know or care about the forum mentioned, eh?

[ReidFan]

I'm happy to leave them to their feelings over there. This place is for everyone who is here, including people who don't know or care about the forum mentioned, eh?

did I say something wrong? :-(

[Danielg342]

You guys are excited...I see a generic bomb plot episode. The actress looks good so hopefully the promo isn't doing this episode justice for me.

[normasm]

did I say something wrong? :-(

 

No, I just feel (and this is my opinion ONLY) that when we talk here it should among the people here. The people "over there" have made some of us feel unwelcome there, so I'm happy to leave them and come here to discuss stuff with this group. I don't want to bring what was an unwelcoming, divisive situation from that forum to this forum. That's all I'm saying. You are certainly free to talk about "over there" folks all you want.

 

I hope I don't come off as condescending, it's not my intention. I'm just happy that this place is free of that vibe that I fled.

[jaytee1812]

Normasm, you sound like you want to pick and choose who posts here. Sorry, but you can get rid of every non-Reid fan.

[Old Dog]

Normasm, you sound like you want to pick and choose who posts here. Sorry, but you can get rid of every non-Reid fan.

That's ridiculous! The whole point of Normasm's post was how great it is here where everyone is welcome to share their views unlike "the other place" which was divisive and made Reid fans feel unwelcome.

[jaytee1812]

That's ridiculous! The whole point of Normasm's post was how great it is here where everyone is welcome to share their views unlike "the other place" which was divisive and made Reid fans feel unwelcome.

Yes it's welcoming for Reid fans but unwelcoming for others.

[Droogie]

Normasm, you sound like you want to pick and choose who posts here. Sorry, but you can get rid of every non-Reid fan.

I would be very interested to know how you inferred that from Normasm's post. Specifically.

[ForeverAlone]

You guys are excited...I see a generic bomb plot episode. The actress looks good so hopefully the promo isn't doing this episode justice for me.

We aren't excited for a bomb plot (at least I am not). We are excited for a ton of Reid, which has been in short supply this season.

[MCatry]

Well, I just saw the promo.

What I think is Reid acting as a dumb teenager, an annoying cliché 'blind date' situation, and a bomb issue that looks extracted from an NCIS episode.

Of course, I guess it may look promising for Gubler fans. I, however, like Reid, the character, and that man on the screen resembled just Gubler.

I'm so sorry about this, but I cannot share the generalised happiness of this forum...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Yes it's welcoming for Reid fans but unwelcoming for others.

 

Ex-squeeze me?

 

Like Droogie, I'm really interested to know how you came to that conclusion.

[secnarf]

There is really nothing about that promo that makes me excited.

I like Reid - not as much as most of you, I think, but I do like him - but nothing about that promo showed me that it was important that Reid was the one on the date with the unsub.

In other words, it doesn't look like anything would have changed one bit if it was any of the other characters on the team in that restaurant.

Just because a character happens to be in the most scenes, I don't count that as a character-centric episode. I think character-centric episodes have the story centre around a specific character, and from the story, that particular character undergoes some sort of development or we find out more about their backstory, who they are as a person.

This still seems like an unsub-centric episode to me.

Does that make any sense? I'm not entirely sure I'm explaining myself properly.

[normasm]

Just because a character happens to be in the most scenes, I don't count that as a character-centric episode. I think character-centric episodes have the story centre around a specific character, and from the story, that particular character undergoes some sort of development or we find out more about their backstory, who they are as a person.

This still seems like an unsub-centric episode to me.

Does that make any sense? I'm not entirely sure I'm explaining myself properly.

Yes, I think you make sense, and that's the way the "centric" episodes used to work, and is why they were rare in early years. Today, most of the writers and producers seem to think a centric episode is one that has one main character for more than 8 minutes in the overall 42.

 

NOT.

 

A centric episode is The instincts. 100. Uncanny Valley. These were about one of the main characters, not just featuring them being badass or beautiful. Not just bookends of characters being dumb and OOC.  

Edited December 22, 2015 by normasm

[JMO]

Yes, I think you make sense, and that's the way the "centric" episodes used to work, and is why they were rare in early years. Today, most of the writers and producers seem to think a centric episode is one that has one main character for more than 8 minutes in the overall 42.

 

NOT.

 

A centric episode is The instincts. 100. Uncanny Valley. These were about one of the main characters, not just featuring them being badass or beautiful. Not just bookends of characters being dumb and OOC.  

I agree with both of you, secnarf and Normasm.  

 

And, in my opinion, another non-centric situation is the storyline that runs entirely separately from the case.  Not really even in parallel, where there might appear to be some similarities or overlap in theme, but something entirely different.  Garcia's death penalty story is one example.  The latter two of the three involving Rossi's military friend also qualify.  They're not 'centric', because they've entirely removed the rest of the team from the equation.  In contrast, I thought the first of the Harrison Scott episodes was appropriately centric, because it taught us something about Rossi, while keeping him involved in the case with the rest of the team.

 

Time will tell, but right now it seems like this upcoming episode (Entropy) may prove to be Reid-centric in that it will show us his prowess in a game of wits, even when we already know him to be a genius.  I hope so.  And I truly hope he hasn't been duped into this date.  I'm not so reassured by the promo.  But the press release sounds  promising.  

[ReidFan]

I thought I'd just share this article, the mistakes made me laugh. I'd point it out but I don't want to ruin it for anyone. Also, I'm kind of annoyed that they use answerers from his reddit AMA in articles, including the deleted answers. 

 

http://www.realtytoday.com/articles/64218/20151220/criminal-minds-mid-season-news-entropy-guest-stars-aubrey-plaza-as-spencer-reids-love-interest-episodes-give-me-nightmares-says-matthew-gray-gubler.htm

I just read that. And since I kept the copy of the reddit Q&A he did before they went through and deleted most of it, I can safely say the alleged reporter of this piece never had any sort of sit down interview with MGG. He or she just took the reddit answers and wrote this piece around them. EVERYTHING was straight from the Q&A. I wonder if the editor knew this.

[Bookish Jen]

I just read that. And since I kept the copy of the reddit Q&A he did before they went through and deleted most of it, I can safely say the alleged reporter of this piece never had any sort of sit down interview with MGG. He or she just took the reddit answers and wrote this piece around them. EVERYTHING was straight from the Q&A. I wonder if the editor knew this.

This was basically a PR puff piece, and a lazy one at that. I read the Reddit after many of Matthew's answers had been deleted and I wondered if some of his answers had to do with upcoming episodes of CM, and therefore, too spoiler-ish. I hate what media and journalism has become these days, and I'm saying this as someone who has worked in media and journalism since college. Even serious topics like social issues and politics is dealt with in a very tabloid-ish manner. Egad, Walter Cronkite must be turning in his grave.

 

That being said, I would love to interview Matthew, and not just because he's dreamy to look at and because he's a famous, rich TV star. I would ask him questions about acting and directing, and his hopes for his professional future. I would not get gossipy and ask him a lot of snoopy questions about his private life. I know Matthew is a private person, and I could never be so rude. Heck, he's a fellow Pisces, and we tend to be very mysterious people, not because we're playing games, but just because we prefer to keep things close to the vest. Heck, some of my friends knew me for years before I truly opened up about my past.

[ReidFan]

I don't think there was THAT much that was 'spoilerish'.... I'm not really sure why they'd delete his answers, or *who* did, maybe he wanted it off the 'net (which is one reason I'm not posting it anywhere, just in case it was at his behest.) I'm willing to quote bits and pieces of it (such as the great response to the bullying question:  "i LOVED being bullied as a kid because it taught me early on that it is absolutely fine to be a weirdo. In my head i thank the bullies everyday for giving me the life i get to lead now." (complete with his non capitlisation of 'I') but I won't be posting it in its entirety anywhere. 

 

He mentioned Aubrey guesting (no spoilers there that we didn't already know) and the bit that was quoted in the article about looking for the little optimisms (also not spoilerish) in any given dark episode.

 

But I think the deleting of the answers, well.....I think it's just because he's fairly private in his personal life and may have thought some of his replies encroached too much on his privacy. 

[Bookish Jen]

Glad to know Matthew didn't give out info that was too spoiler-ish. I just hope Entropy shows Spencer's keen intelligence and value as a member of the BAU and doesn't reduce him to complete idiot and a passive victim. But sadly, at this stage of CM's tenure, I'm not holding my breath. Please let this be a good episode.

 

And so cool Matthew is able to be proud of his weirdo self. I find his weirdness endearing. I'm probably a bit of a weirdo, too, though a bit more reserved than Matthew considering I'm very much an introvert, and he comes across as a bit more extroverted than me, and Spencer, of course.

[ForeverAlone]

Who knows who or why those AMA answers were deleted, but I can say that nothing he said in that chat was stuff he had not said before (except working with Aubrey, but we already knew that they are good friends and enjoy working with each other). He didn't say anything particularly new or revealing, so I doubt they were deleted because they encroached on his privacy in any way. He answered more personal questions in his Glamour interview and he had no problem sharing it for all to read.

[Droogie]

It was posited somewhere, and I forget where, that perhaps he deleted his reddit account after the interview was over -- could that be why his answers disappeared? I have no knowledge, honestly, and don't know why it would delete some answers and not others, but it doesn't make sense that he would've gone back and deleted them.

Regardless, I know he didn't exactly reveal anything in that AMA, but I still appreciate that he took time to interact with fans.