Minority Report - General Discussion

[Free]

The near total absence of Blake (very much tied to the fact that Valderrama also, for once on this show, managed to deliver his lines rather decently) was one of my absolute highlights of the episode

 

Blake is just useless, we only need Vega for police resources and the pre cogs working together to prevent crimes in their visions.

[Pointer]

There you go again, expecting "logic" and "continuity" and the like...

 

Right, right - I'll be off to my little corner then, rocking back and forth...

 

Let's see what what fun new-old stuff they come up with next episode!

[Greta]

I enjoyed the flashbacks and Arthur's story. Van Ness should have been a big bad for at least a season. The criminal underbelly of this allegedly utopian future is so much more interesting.

But wow did Meagan Good kill any interest I had in shipping her with Arthur. She was just so flat the entire episode, with not just Arthur but everyone. Andromeda said not one word this episode and still managed to be more engaged and interesting in her 10 seconds of screentime.

I have, to my confusion and distress, warmed to Blake. It's less affection than a vague interest in his petty, ambitious little ass. WV isn't great but he has still created more of a cohesive character with discernible motivations than MG has despite being the lead. Yes the writing could be better but frankly tough, hardened, secretly idealistic cop is not that hard to play.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Greta

[Free]

Van Ness should have been a big bad for at least a season.

 

He should've been set up earlier, but oh well, it's too late now.

[miracole]

Van Ness was totally channeling Lawrence Fishburn as Morpheous as Othello.

Good episode I really enjoyed seeing more Arthur and his relationship with Dash. I liked that he pulled the classic bad boy with a woobie heart move by basically saying the " I'm always ok" line.

[thuganomics85]

I really enjoyed the actor playing Van Ness.  He looked somewhat familiar, so I've probably seen him before, but he really was a perfect fit for the character, and I enjoyed his scenes with Arthur.  Kind of bummed he's already gone, but then again, it isn't very likely this show is going to be around past their thirteen episodes.

 

The flashbacks were interesting.  It was fun seeing a nicer Arthur back then, and how one incident pretty much changed that.  The bartender was likable, so I was bummed he didn't get to her in time.  Interesting that Dash held him back briefly, so he kind of blames himself for what happened.

 

It did feel like the episode was pushing for a future Arthur/Vega pairing, but I have to agree that, while Nick Zano seemed to be game, Meagan Good didn't seem to be selling it.  Again though, since this show is likely doomed, I'm not invested either way.

 

Next episode seems to be finally bringing Blake into the fold, so lest see if that will somehow make him interesting.  A tall order, I think.

[Pointer]

By and large, another decent episode. Too little too late, of course (is there a chance this might get picked up by someone else when FOX lets it go? Production costs are probably a little too high for another channel, aren't they?) but I take what I'll get.

 

Couple of observations/opinions:

 

I agree with all the above posters who really enjoyed Peter Macon (the guy playing van Zant) in this episode. He would have made a phenomenal season 1 Big Bad, giving both Vega/Dash/the police and Arthur's Underworld Crime Empire ample opportunity for interaction.

 

On that note, I am really impressed with many, if not most of the extras they cast over the course of the show. The bartender today, both of van Zant's henchmen (the woman in particular), Brian the Farmer last episode, Vega's mom, Dash's brief love interest Fredi, the psychologist/perp from the Hawkeye episode - and that's just off the top of my head. It still boggles the mind how they consistently manage to score on that casting front, yet ended up going ahead with Meagan Good and Wilmer Vaderrama in their respective roles. Did they receive straight offers?

 

 

Really liked the way they explored the individual dark sides of Arthur and Dash this episode: First, of course, the "origin story" of Arthur's (while believably acted by Zano, it felt a bit rushed - one incident and he turns into the Arthur we see today? - but I'm willing to chalk that one up to the time constraints of wrapping up the show within the next 3 episodes.

But also the fact that Dash (Ep. 2: "I killed a person and I felt nothing") orchestrated a murder to get a message out. Sure, he was grateful for the killer's actions afterward, but boy does this guy have a hidden dark side lurking just beneath the surface that would make it really interesting to watch him fly off the rails for a bit.

 

What I don't really buy is going as far as (judging by past experience with the show's writing) I think the writers were trying to suggest in terms of "just out of the milk bath, Arthur was the sweet guy hell-bent on saving people, while Dash didn't want any part of it". A complete role-reversal of the two brothers just by this one incident feels a bit far-fetched. They have stressed Dash's inherent desire to save people, no matter the cost (especially to himself) as a motivator for all his actions entirely too much over the course of the show so far.

On the other hand, Arthur's (up to this point) inexplicable dichotomy between warning Dash to stay away from Vega and himself helping them with little prompting at every opportunity has become a fair bit more credible.

 

 

One major annoyance that was back to almost early-show level form was the damn unnecessary expository dialogue/owershowing of issues. Chief example being the scene where Vega visits the appartment Dash had previously visited and was abducted from. She scans the floor with her lenses, checks the liquid residue she finds with her magic spray and and the puddle we see can clearly be little else than one thing. What does Vega say? "Blood!". She then checks the blood for DNA matches, her lenses show us Dash's NAME AND A BIG PICTURE OF HIM and what does Vega say? "Dash!" Ugh. If this is actually written in the script and not an acting choice by Meagan Good (in which case the director should rein her in), these writers deserve to be out of a job in three weeks.

 

Generally similar thing with photography later in the episode: Arthur's parting scene from Wally's where he hits on Vega. Why do we get that two second cutaway close-up of Dash reacting to Arthur's "I get a kiss goodbye?" - unless they are actually setting up a love triangle and specifically wanted this extra focus on Dash to foreshadow it so even the slowest member of the audience is in the picture, they could have done very well without it. The camera angle they shot Arthur asking for the kiss actually showed Dash's reaction pretty well - his head was almost center-frame right behind Arthur's shoulder and he immediately looked up from whatever else he was doing the moment Arthur said the words and kept staring at Vega throughout the rest of the scene (though the angle of the second shot of the scene - the one after his reaction closeup was slightly different - hid half his face behind Arthur, the stare was still there). The medium-long shot of the scene would have worked perfectly well to catch not just Arthur hitting on Vega and her evading him, but also Dash's reaction. No need to hit us over the head with an extra close-up of Dash frowning extra-worriedly.

 

Edit: I just remembered that they aired this episode and the privous one in reverse order. Going from the fact that Arthur doesn't hit on Vega in "Fiddler's Neck" and even seems moderately annoyed that she tags along in the first place, and remembering the long scene in the end that has Dash interrupt saynig goodbye to his sister (cue dramatic violin music setting in) to prolongedly stare at Vega walking down the dock towards them, this looks, if intentional at all, more like Dash falling for Vega than the setup of a love triangle. If so, good - I don't want to see them try to cram a love triangle into the last three episodes as well, when there is - at this point - little to no setup in place for the big showdown to begin with.

 

Also on that note - is it just me, or was the delivery of that exact dialogue Nick Zano's only weak scene in the entire episode? Something felt off about it, and he was back to that faux drawl that annoyed me during his first few scenes, especially with Vega, from the pilot and episode 2. The rest of his scenes with Good this episode were very well done on his part, though. I was a bit worried about this front beforehand, as they are both stronger when they act off other members of the cast, but they both did well this episode. One thing that really irked me during their scene at Dash's apartment was the continuous, overexaggerated blinking on Good's part. The character's confusion is already expressed by the dialogue and inherently clear to the viewer from the entire situation Vega finds herself in at that moment - no need to try and oversell it.

 

Edit 2: Can't belive I forgot about this one when first writing the post but good God, continuity: When Arthur meets with van Zant's guy in the alley - the meeting where he is presented with the proof of life

aka the severed finger

, the goon ends their meeting by telling Arthur he has "until dawn" to get back to them with the money. The scene clearly takes places at night - the scene immediately preceeding it was set the Vega's apartment where the lighting of the glass front/ windows to the garden went from late evening to nightfall.

We're then interrupted by a flashback set at night. But the next scene in the "here and now" after the confrontation, which takes place at Wally's house, where they analyze the "proof of life" and Arthur decides to head back out to see van Zant, clearly has bright daylight flooding through the basement windows and the glass panels by the front door of the house.
The confrontation scene at the restaurant between Arthur and van Zant also takes place in bright daylight. So... they had until "dawn" some other day in the distant future, then?

 

 

Wow, in retrospect, this seems like a lot of criticism for an episode I generally found to be one of the better ones of the show. At this point, I'll be sad to see it go, despite all it's failings. There was so much potential here, it's a shame.

 

 

 

 

 

Hold on, I've got one more: the Eurosnob in me (sorry, can't help it - but I've got family in that region in Spain) was cringing at the almost orange "Amontillado", served with crab of all things. I get that the Big Bad was supposed to be a refined foodie/beverage snob, but everything about that beverage choice in that context was plain wrong. The sherry you were looking for in that context is Manzanilla or Fino, writers. The information to make the right choice should be on the corresponding pages of the damn wikipedia. Why not go with a nice white wine where he gets to name-drop a big-name winery that will impress/confuse viewers just as much?

Edited November 4, 2015 by Pointer

[Free]

Edit: I just remembered that they aired this episode and the privous one in reverse order. Going from the fact that Arthur doesn't hit on Vega in "Fiddler's Neck" and even seems moderately annoyed that she tags along in the first place, and remembering the long scene in the end that has Dash interrupt saynig goodbye to his sister (cue dramatic violin music setting in) to prolongedly stare at Vega walking down the dock towards them, this looks, if intentional at all, more like Dash falling for Vega than the setup of a love triangle. If so, good - I don't want to see them try to cram a love triangle into the last three episodes as well, when there is - at this point - little to no setup in place for the big showdown to begin with.

 

FOX has a history of doing that with sci fi show unfortunately.

[Timetoread]

I really enjoyed the actor playing Van Ness.  He looked somewhat familiar, so I've probably seen him before, but he really was a perfect fit for the character, and I enjoyed his scenes with Arthur.  

 

I remember him from his short but memorable appearance on Supernatural in the fight against the 7 Deadly Sins.  He was there with his wife Tabitha and they were hunters.

[topanga]

 

  One major annoyance that was back to almost early-show level form was the damn unnecessary expository dialogue/owershowing of issues. Chief example being the scene where Vega visits the appartment Dash had previously visited and was abducted from. She scans the floor with her lenses, checks the liquid residue she finds with her magic spray and and the puddle we see can clearly be little else than one thing. What does Vega say? "Blood!". She then checks the blood for DNA matches, her lenses show us Dash's NAME AND A BIG PICTURE OF HIM and what does Vega say? "Dash!" Ugh. If this is actually written in the script and not an acting choice by Meagan Good (in which case the director should rein her in), these writers deserve to be out of a job in three weeks.

Loved your entire post, Pointer. You made some great points (Broom-ching). Yes, that scene did make me laugh. It's possible that it played out that way because the director (or writer) didn't trust Megan Good's ability to convey those thoughts (Blood!  Dash!) with only her face. Or they could have tried the scene without the words, and Good gave her typical "who farted?" face, which is her reaction to just about everything. Even when Vega was worried about Dash's life, and I thought she did a great job in that scene, her facial expression still asked Arthur, 'Who farted?'

 

 

Van Ness was totally channeling Lawrence Fishburn as Morpheous as Othello.

I thought the same thing. I especially liked his scenes with Arthur, and I think he could have been utilized all season. Too bad.

[Bort]

One major annoyance that was back to almost early-show level form was the damn unnecessary expository dialogue/owershowing of issues. Chief example being the scene where Vega visits the appartment Dash had previously visited and was abducted from. She scans the floor with her lenses, checks the liquid residue she finds with her magic spray and and the puddle we see can clearly be little else than one thing. What does Vega say? "Blood!". She then checks the blood for DNA matches, her lenses show us Dash's NAME AND A BIG PICTURE OF HIM and what does Vega say? "Dash!" Ugh. If this is actually written in the script and not an acting choice by Meagan Good (in which case the director should rein her in), these writers deserve to be out of a job in three weeks.

One thing to keep in mind is that the director/actors/writers might not have any idea what the finished product is supposed to look like, especially this early in the production run where there may not have been any completely finished episodes for them to look at, thus the exposition that ends up being unnecessary.

[Collinwood]

Did anyone but me think it was odd that there are driver operated vehicles still running? Wouldn't such vehicles be 40 or 50 years old by the time Agatha, Arthur and Dash were leaving for Fiddler's Neck? How many gas stations would still be in business? Why send people who just learned how to walk around out in such an antiquated car? Are there no "hacked" self-driving cars from the 2020's that can't be traced? Am I being picky? Yes? Well okay then.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Collinwood

[Bort]

Did anyone but me think it was odd that there are driver operated vehicles still running? Wouldn't such vehicles be 40 or 50 years old by the time Agatha, Arthur and Dash were leaving for Fiddler's Neck? How many gas stations would still be in business? Why send people who just learned how to walk around out in such an antiquated car? Are there no "hacked" self-driving cars from the 2020's that can't be traced? Am I being picky? Yes? Well okay then.

I've noticed that the "old" cars sound like golf carts. I'm assuming it means they've been modified to be electric.

[jhlipton]

Hold on, I've got one more: the Eurosnob in me (sorry, can't help it - but I've got family in that region in Spain) was cringing at the almost orange "Amontillado", served with crab of all things. 

 

Van Zant wasn't drinking Amontillado.  He was referencing  Fortunato, who was closely mew'd up.  "For the love of god, Montresor!"

[ribboninthesky1]

I had no problems with Good's performance opposite Zano.  I must have been watching a different episode, because for the most part, I don't think the point was to underscore Lara/Arthur chemistry.  Lara seemed focused on finding Dash because he's her partner and she presumably cares about his well-being.  Why would Good play up any chemistry against Zano as Arthur? Especially when Arthur blamed HER for Dash's disappearance more than once, knowing what role HE played?

 

Other than the "Kiss goodnight?" line near the very end, I didn't think Zano was playing up sexual/romantic chemistry opposite Good, either.  But then, Zano's performance is the one hit or miss for me.  

 

Good is a mediocre actress, no doubt, but I think within the confines of the character as established thus far, she's fine.      

Arthur's actions in this episode confused the hell out of me, and his "We're even" to Vega (to tell Dash) felt incongruous to the flashbacks.  So Dash kept him from saving the bartender's life (never mind that Arthur's behavior had a significant effect on the path to her murder), and later apologized and said he would make it up to him.  So how is Dash being kidnapped and tortured because of Arthur's shady dealings calling it even?  

Edited November 7, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[formerlyfreedom]

Dash and Vega follow a vision to the Southside, encountering distrust from the community. Meanwhile, Blake's suspicion of Vega and Dash intensifies.

 

 

[formerlyfreedom]

Blake withholds information from the Defense Intelligence Agency when he learns they are on the precogs' trail, and Arthur takes matters into his own hands to save them. Meanwhile, Dash gets a vision of a political assassination that intrudes into Vega's personal life.

 

 

 

[cynic]

I actually really liked this episode. I even liked Blake for the first time ever, at least when he wasn't trying to be all street cred tough guy. The book guy at the end seemed intriguing. Too bad this shown finally found some groove right before it's over.

[TobinAlbers]

Blake actually showed why he's risen in the ranks they way he did; man knows how to sleuth and detect.

 

Nice twist that he was the one about the commit a crime, but was saved by his step-father's pre-crime being higher priority? Or was he really not going to go through with it? Or was it known but exempt because it would've been in the defense of another?

 

I'm normally a MG fan, but her Vega was grating big time with her alternately bullying, trying to emotionally manipulate, and then antagonizing Blake into keeping Dash's secret. Sure Blake can be cocky, but she did put him in a bad position and was unapologetic about it. I actually came out more on his side initially even if I do like Dash and what he and Vega are trying and successfully doing. And Dash was able to break through because instead of going all angry defensive, he appealed to Blake's interest in 'Running with a precog' with a hit of the Dash puppy dog eyes. THAT'S how you bait a reluctant fish, Vega.

 

The Arthur and Blake meeting was gold. Especially with Blake noticing Andromeda's approach and turning to stare her down with a 'Girl, please' look on his face without moving an inch. Arthur punching Dash after confirming that Blake knew what they were was harsh, but then Arthur has a right about his carefully crafted identity being blown by a cop that he has no control over. Dash can feel free to endanger himself in his pursuit, but not cool exposing other people who prefer to stay hidden.

 

And yeah, just as they got wind of being cancelled, the show finally found it's footing. Nice that they switched up the VO intro to it being Dash this time.

Edited November 17, 2015 by TobinAlbers

[Notwisconsin]

And yeah, just as they got wind of being cancelled, the show finally found it's footing. Nice that they switched up the VO intro to it being Dash this time.

Word. I was interested to hear about the repeal of the 14th amendment, which basically repeals the entire bill of rights vis-a-vis the states. Explains a lot.

[Pointer]

Blake actually showed why he's risen in the ranks they way he did; man knows how to sleuth and detect.

 

Word! Good to know that they actually have ONE guy who knows how to do proper police work at Metro PD.

 

 

Nice twist that he was the one about the commit a crime, but was saved by his step-father's pre-crime being higher priority? Or was he really not going to go through with it? Or was it known but exempt because it would've been in the defense of another?

 

Indeed. I am wondering about that scene as well: could it be that a barely-drugged-clearly-distressed Dash was so out of sync with his siblings during that incident, that they weren't getting the proper vision?

Was Dash, whose reply to Blake's later 'confession' that he was about to commit the crime was "I remember", actually correct and would have qualified as a Minority Report in that situation?

 

 

I'm normally a MG fan, but her Vega was grating big time with her alternately bullying, trying to emotionally manipulate, and then antagonizing Blake into keeping Dash's secret. Sure Blake can be cocky, but she did put him in a bad position and was unapologetic about it. I actually came out more on his side initially even if I do like Dash and what he and Vega are trying and successfully doing. And Dash was able to break through because instead of going all angry defensive, he appealed to Blake's interest in 'Running with a precog' with a hit of the Dash puppy dog eyes. THAT'S how you bait a reluctant fish, Vega.

 

Amen to the entire paragraph. The way Vega is written continues to be my main issue with character writing on this show. It would take one hell of an actress to pull off a believable interpretation of this particular character at any rate, Good with her somewhat limited range (or at least not hard-nosed cop compatible range) is a hopelessly lost cause in that regard, even though she has somewhat improved over the course of the show. I still can't belive the network picked up a show with her in that role in the first place (especially after the way the pilot turned out - both versions) and I'm seriously wondering who her competition was, unless of course she was name cast.

 

 

The Arthur and Blake meeting was gold. Especially with Blake noticing Andromeda's approach and turning to stare her down with a 'Girl, please' look on his face without moving an inch. Arthur punching Dash after confirming that Blake knew what they were was harsh, but then Arthur has a right about his carefully crafted identity being blown by a cop that he has no control over. Dash can feel free to endanger himself in his pursuit, but not cool exposing other people who prefer to stay hidden.

 

And another 'amen' from me on this. That meeting (also the wardrobe department on the whole for that location) was my highlight of the show. And while I'm at it - I've been an exceptionally staunch critic of Wilmer Valderrama's performance, especially his dialogue delivery, throughout the series. With one or two absolutely minor exceptions this episode, there were no issues whatsoever in that regard today. His physical performance was very solid as well, though that has, at least to me, never really been his problem to begin with. Anyway - great job last night, he managed to sell Blake to me in a way Zano hasn't quite managed to sell Arthur with three times the amount of accumulated screen time allotted to character development.

 

I do agree that Arthur was absolutely justified in socking his brother in the mouth. While we all know Dash would take a bullet for Vega and follow her willingly and consciously to certain doom, the whole "I trust him because she does, and I trust her so you can trust me on that!"-thing was ridiculous, even for Dash. Especially for a Dash who continues to be pretty ruthless about- and absolutely willing to actively set events in motion that get "evil people" killed outright in order resolve a predicament. That and the incredible sang-froid he displayed throughout the entire "don't you want to run with a precog, just once?" scene really is what makes the character interesting to me.

Sands plays the guy like he's got one hell of a dark side lurking just underneath the surface. Sure, it is most likely due to the early childhood trauma of his entire upbringing, and it is certainly also outclassed by his rabidly stubborn determination to help people/stop murders and be a general do-gooder. Never getting to see where else this character could be taken when pushed over the edge will be one of my main regrets once the show wraps up in two weeks.

 

On the other hand, contrast that dark side with the way he remains steadfastly loyal to the people he cares about and gives his word to. Unlike the way he keeps reminding everyone how he completely trusts Vega and all her choices on his behalf, I really liked the whole interrogation room scene.

I loved Akeela's willingness to put herself on the line in order to help Dash, especially remembering her inhibitions to get him into his job in the first place. Dash's statement to her during his job interview ("your confidence in me will be rewarded") was on the forefront of my mind during the entire scene, so I wasn't the least bit surprised to find him where he was when Blake and Vega came for him in the end. He wasn't going to let her down. Might be a fair bit healthier for his long-term prospects to channel a lot less Egmont and a lot more Orange, though. Let's hope his convictions don't get all the precogs in a milk bath and everybody else incarcerated or killed by the end of episode 10.

 

Speaking of getting everybody killed - from what we saw so far, I really like the terrorist attack plotline so far. That may largely be due to Christopher Heyerdahl apparently being a part of it, but the entire setup looks very promising and nowhere near as ridiculous as the mind-controlled, bio-agent carrying pigeons from the pilot.

 

 

 

Still chuffed about the complete lack of any unnecessary romance subplot to clutter up the resolution of the show as well.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Pointer

[Pointer]

Van Zant wasn't drinking Amontillado.  He was referencing  Fortunato, who was closely mew'd up.  "For the love of god, Montresor!"

 

 

Ha! Poe didn't even cross my mind in that scene - I saw him deliver that line while nodding at his glass and taking a drink and immediately went for "beverage hipster" instead of "literature geek" my bad!

[Latverian Diplomat]

Word. I was interested to hear about the repeal of the 14th amendment, which basically repeals the entire bill of rights vis-a-vis the states. Explains a lot.

Unclear. They might have just repealed the citizenship clause. That would make more sense in the context of the "compromise" that was discussed.

 

Blake still doesn't do much for me. His detecting work mostly consisted of hanging around Dash waiting for him to expose himself (which, being Dash, he did). Oh, and he tried to pinch one of his own subordinates CIs for some reason. Even if Vega is getting a lot of notice as a successful detective, Blake is a lieutenant now. Cracking a lot of cases the way a detective would, wouldn't make him look good as a lieutenant. He's supposed to be a supervisor/delegator now. 

[Pointer]

Unclear. They might have just repealed the citizenship clause. That would make more sense in the context of the "compromise" that was discussed.

 

This was my immediate assumption also: a more European-style ius sanguinis determinator for citizenship as a trade-off for the legalization of 10 million illegals.

 

 

Implying that the scuttling of the entire 14th Amendment is what gave us a 2050+ with civil rights and liberties being what they are shown to be under first Precrime and then Hawkeye would be an awesome idea, but seems way too subtle to me for a show that is as blatantly obvious with the steady stream of its myriad of other (let's call them liberal progressive) political messages.

 

 

Blake still doesn't do much for me. His detecting work mostly consisted of hanging around Dash waiting for him to expose himself (which, being Dash, he did). Oh, and he tried to pinch one of his own subordinates CIs for some reason. Even if Vega is getting a lot of notice as a successful detective, Blake is a lieutenant now. Cracking a lot of cases the way a detective would, wouldn't make him look good as a lieutenant. He's supposed to be a supervisor/delegator now.

 

that is actually a very valid point!

Edited November 18, 2015 by Pointer

[Latverian Diplomat]

Implying that the scuttling of the entire 14th Amendment is what gave us a 2050+ with civil rights and liberties being what they are shown to be under first Precrime and then Hawkeye would be an awesome idea, 

 

Another, very technical wrinkle is that DC is under Federal jurisdiction. It doesn't have a state constitution. (IIRC DC is not a state in the MR future, though they might have said it was and I missed it). 

 

ETA: I always assumed that Pre-crime being a completely new phenomena, the courts, in a time of fear about crime, gave it great latitude and authority as unimpeachable evidence (and even the fact that there are such things as minority reports was kept secret). I think erosion and lip service rather than outright repeal would be the way the loss of rights would play out -- thought the citizenship clause is a plausible exception to that, in the context the show gave.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[33kaitykaity]

I has a sad re: the cancellation.  I liked this show.  I liked the way they dressed Vega and showed off that J-Lo-esque backside.  (I'm an originally hippie girl myself.)

[Pointer]

ETA: I always assumed that Pre-crime being a completely new phenomena, the courts, in a time of fear about crime, gave it great latitude and authority as unimpeachable evidence (and even the fact that there are such things as minority reports was kept secret). I think erosion and lip service rather than outright repeal would be the way the loss of rights would play out -- thought the citizenship clause is a plausible exception to that, in the context the show gave.

 

 

I'm with you in terms of prior assumptions as to how Precrime could attain legality in the first place. Though I've never read the original short story and last watched the movie about half a decade ago.

 

 

 

Another, very technical wrinkle is that DC is under Federal jurisdiction. It doesn't have a state constitution. (IIRC DC is not a state in the MR future, though they might have said it was and I missed it).

 

And this is the point where I need to make clear that the last time I took a closer look at the 14th Amendment was during the single year of American Government eductation I received back in '03, when I was an exchange student. What I remember boils down to "drafted and enacted in the direct aftermath of the Civil War, deals with citizenship rights ['privileges and immunities' I think the term is] and due process and was the basis for many of the big landmark rulings that shaped modern American jurisprudence/government like Brown v. Board of Education and Roe v. Wade". I actually presently knew that DC was under federal jurisdiction, but completely failed to make that connection to the applicability of the amendments. I really need to revisit that.

 

So, being a territory under federal jurisdiction would mean that the 14th doesn't apply to DC and all citizenship rights would be directly covered by the Bill of Rights? Does the Bill of Rights cover all necessary issues? *sigh* Sorry mate. I REALLY need to take another close look at US constitutional/legal history - this is shameful.

I has a sad re: the cancellation.  I liked this show.  I liked the way they dressed Vega and showed off that J-Lo-esque backside.  (I'm an originally hippie girl myself.)

 

 

is it actually formally canceled yet?

 

The executive producer seems to (at least pretend to) hold out hope for a possible second season, though Murdoch jr. calling your show out by name as the big disappointment of the year during some kind of official function is even more of a death sentence than the abysmal ratings, I suppose.

[Latverian Diplomat]

I'm with you in terms of prior assumptions as to how Precrime could attain legality in the first place. Though I've never read the original short story and last watched the movie about half a decade ago.

 

 

 

And this is the point where I need to make clear that the last time I took a closer look at the 14th Amendment was during the single year of American Government eductation I received back in '03, when I was an exchange student. What I remember boils down to "drafted and enacted in the direct aftermath of the Civil War, deals with citizenship rights ['privileges and immunities' I think the term is] and due process and was the basis for many of the big landmark rulings that shaped modern American jurisprudence/government like Brown v. Board of Education and Roe v. Wade". I actually presently knew that DC was under federal jurisdiction, but completely failed to make that connection to the applicability of the amendments. I really need to revisit that.

 

So, being a territory under federal jurisdiction would mean that the 14th doesn't apply to DC and all citizenship rights would be directly covered by the Bill of Rights? Does the Bill of Rights cover all necessary issues? *sigh* Sorry mate. I REALLY need to take another close look at US constitutional/legal history - this is shameful.

is it actually formally canceled yet?

 

The executive producer seems to (at least pretend to) hold out hope for a possible second season, though Murdoch jr. calling your show out by name as the big disappointment of the year during some kind of official function is even more of a death sentence than the abysmal ratings, I suppose.

No worries, I should have been clearer. The Bill of rights (all of the rights in the Constitution, really) were originally considered to place restrictions only on the Federal government, though most states modeled their constitutions on the Federal and included similar rights. A major effect of the 14th amendment was the application of Federal Constitutional rights to state governments as well (this is called the doctrine of incorporation). This creates a minimum bar that each state has to abide by (many states have rights above this bar, like the right to a free public education).

 

But, as a Federal territory, DC is not a state and has no state constitution, so even if the 14th amendment was totally repealed, Law Enforcement there would (I'm guessing) still be technically federal and the Bill of Rights would still apply even to the local police, even if it did not apply to local police anywhere in the states anymore..   

 

As for cancellation, I think executive producers always say stuff like that, to keep people watching. They filmed up to their planned midseason finale, so I just hope it ends in a satisfying place and not a ridiculous cliffhanger.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[Happytobehere]

The show has actually gotten good. Too bad it's done. The same thing happened with Constantine last season. It started off shakes and by the time it became a good show, the damage was done.

[Free]

is it actually formally canceled yet?

 

So far, the episode order got cut.

[jhlipton]

So far, the episode order got cut.

 

Which is as close to an "official" cancellation as you'll see.  Shows aren't cancelled any more -- it cuts viewers of the remaining episodes and erodes sales.  But if there's no "back 9" or, even worse, an order cut like with Minority Report, it is pretty much dead,

[Free]

Which is as close to an "official" cancellation as you'll see.  Shows aren't cancelled any more -- it cuts viewers of the remaining episodes and erodes sales.  But if there's no "back 9" or, even worse, an order cut like with Minority Report, it is pretty much dead,

 

Exactly, they'll avoid it as much as possible.

[formerlyfreedom]

The Very Likely Series Finale:
 

The precogs and Vega must come together to thwart a chemical attack by Memento Mori, meanwhile Blomfeld is determined to get the precogs back in the milk bath.

 

 

[Notwisconsin]

I'm I the only one who saw this episode. It was good. I'll be sad to see it go.

[Free]

I'm I the only one who saw this episode. It was good. I'll be sad to see it go.

 

I saw it too, it's gotten better in terms of team dynamic and I wish the first few episodes were better.

[Notwisconsin]

yeah, the next ep. is listed the season finale, which means that it's the series finale. I'm glad  they've been given a chance to end this.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Notwisconsin

[Latverian Diplomat]

yeah, the next ep. is listed the season finale, which means that it's the series finale. I'm glad  they've been given a chance to end this.

 

FwIw, it was originally planned as the Fall finale (which is a thing now, I guess?) with the remaining episodes of the original order showing in winter/spring of 2016. I don't know if they had the chance and inclination to make any changes, so I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if it doesn't end on a huge cliffhanger with the Precogs being lowered into the milk bath.

 

On this episode, they were really all over the place with gene therapy issues. "Germ line" therapy is controversial, because it doesn't effect just the patient but the whole gene pool. One variant of a gene may cause disease in one context, but could be beneficial in another. A common example is the sickle-cell gene, where one copy of the gene provides increased resistance to malaria, but two copies cause disease. In the big picture, we could reduce humanity's ability to survive some future disease or catastrophe by reducing human genetic diversity. This is an interesting issue.

 

Instead, the show conflated this with in utero therapy which might or might not be "germ-line" therapy, depending on which fetal cells were affected and how. The real issue, and what the bad guy's "weapon" did, was using the tools of autosomal gene therapy as a weapon. This is also an interesting issue, though perhaps a little less so, as well as less esoteric. 

 

I wasn't wild about how the show mixed those up, so Gray's agenda didn't make much sense to me. But, Christopher Heyerdahl did a good job of being creepily sanctimonious about it.

[Rockstar99435]

I'm sticking around to see how it ends. I'm glad they know it's over so next week can wrap everything up. The show took too long to get to the point and I wish they'd done more with Arthur from the beginning. I'm way more interested in him and Agatha making their way in the world than case of the week stuff. 

[jhlipton]

I'm going to miss it too (except for Good's acting -- her booty is fyyyyyyyyyyyne!).  I hope they get a chance to wrap up -- they've know for quite a while now.

[miracole]

It was good. I'll be sad to see it go.

Loved them playing the video game at the beginning. Wish this show could have stuck around.

[Free]

I'm sticking around to see how it ends. I'm glad they know it's over so next week can wrap everything up. The show took too long to get to the point and I wish they'd done more with Arthur from the beginning. I'm way more interested in him and Agatha making their way in the world than case of the week stuff. 

 

Agreed, they should've hit the ground running with that, I don't think it would've helped the ratings, but it would've been a better show.

[Rockstar99435]

I think the ethical question of 'if you have superpowers, do you have a responsibility to use them to help society- even if it puts you in danger/causes you pain?' is really interesting and I liked the brothers debating that. On one hand, I agree with Dash that it's wrong to sit back and do nothing if you know someone is going to be murdered. But on the other hand, I agree with Arthur that they've saved enough people, and they also have the right to a normal life. Besides it's not like the world returned the favor. Everyone knew that the pre-cogs lived in a milk bath and no one sued the government on their behalf or protested their abuse or even questioned the morality of taking their childhoods away.

 

Also, it took me way too long to realize that the pre-cogs are all named after mystery writers: Agatha Christie, Arthur Conan Doyle, and Dashiell Hammett 

[Netfoot]

The question, I believe is, how far do you have to go, to try and save another?  Say you see men in balaclavas waiting in a van outside a bank, with shotguns.  Ok, you really shouldn't walk away and do nothing at all, but you don't have to run over and start hitting them with your umbrella.  Drop a dime on them.  And stay the hell out of the way!  But if you have good evidence that just calling the cops will get you killed, or (in this case) enslaved, then yes!  Just walk away.  Put the dime back in your pocket and stroll on.  I don't believe you are morally required to endanger yourself to save someone else.  People do it every day, firemen, cops, etc, but I don't think you should be compelled to do so.  Firemen and cops are allowed to retire from the job when ever they like.

[Collinwood]

This episode of Minority Report brought to you in Glare-O-Vision. Because in the future nothing is clear. I'm not sure what the lighting was about in this episode, but it sure was distracting. Otherwise a very interesting episode. I'm sad to see this show end. Not nearly as sad as I was when Awake starring Jason Isaacs ended, but sad nonetheless. There was a lot of potential in Minority Report.

[jmonique]

I'm halfway through watching the episode, and I've had to pause it because it's getting too real and too uncomfortable watching Dash try to save people, and potentially putting himself and his siblings at risk.

 

I wish the show would have started out like this. I do. And not just because maybe it would have meant more opportunities to get Stark to sing.

 

Sidenote: Wilmer is horribly, horribly miscast. Horribly. Just awful. Perhaps if he and Vega would have been cast with stronger actors, this could have had a little more of a fighting chance. Just, awful.

[Netfoot]

There was a lot of potential in Minority Report.

 

Yes but they started the season with too much Vega and not enough Arthur & Agatha.  Perhaps they might have picked up some more audience otherwise.

[Free]

Yes but they started the season with too much Vega and not enough Arthur & Agatha.  Perhaps they might have picked up some more audience otherwise.

 

It should've been more of an ensemble with the Precogs.

[Pointer]

No worries, I should have been clearer. The Bill of rights (all of the rights in the Constitution, really) were originally considered to place restrictions only on the Federal government, though most states modeled their constitutions on the Federal and included similar rights. A major effect of the 14th amendment was the application of Federal Constitutional rights to state governments as well (this is called the doctrine of incorporation). This creates a minimum bar that each state has to abide by (many states have rights above this bar, like the right to a free public education).

 

But, as a Federal territory, DC is not a state and has no state constitution, so even if the 14th amendment was totally repealed, Law Enforcement there would (I'm guessing) still be technically federal and the Bill of Rights would still apply even to the local police, even if it did not apply to local police anywhere in the states anymore..   

 

As for cancellation, I think executive producers always say stuff like that, to keep people watching. They filmed up to their planned midseason finale, so I just hope it ends in a satisfying place and not a ridiculous cliffhanger.

 

 

Many thanks for clearing up all my questions on the matter, mate! :)

[Pointer]

And another (relatively speaking, but certainly for this show on the whole) strong episode of Minority Report. However unrealistic the science (many thanks for some great insight, Latverian Diplomat!) I liked the moral dilemma/questions it posed. Good and Valderrama, performance wise, managed to clear the bar of "good-enough-to-not-immediately-break-immersion" with some of the strongest acting we've seen from them throughout the show. For the first time this season, I actually find myself actively curious about the course of the storyline and invested in the fate of all the characters. Good job, show - had you managed that a bit earlier (say, about five episodes earlier) you might have had a fighting chance for survival.

 

 

 

 

Some issues/questions I'm left with:

 

Stark Sands said in a teaser interview for the episode that he couldn't disclose the title of the song we'd hear Dash sing, because it would be a spoiler for important plot points. Is there some meaning/association with Sexual Healing non-Americans/people who didn't conscioulsy experience the early 80s don't get, or is it more likely that they've switched the song on him at the last minute/after he gave that interview? Am i the only one who thinks that particular song was a pretty odd choice for a character like Dash to begin with?

 

The episode summary from the press kit claimed the the political assasination that was at the heart of this episode had ties to Vega's personal life. I can't, for the life of me, figure out where. Was there supposed to be a tie-in with the dead father and the whole thing became a jettisoned plot point in order to hve enough time to bring the show to a satisfactory conclusion?

 

I absolutely hated the excessive use of lens flare this episode. I actually thought my old TV had finally died on me proper until I switched channels and found everything else to be fine and the issue with Minority Report alone. I suppose it's almost a metaphor for the show on the whole - they think they are so darn clever, they completely overdo what might actually work as a subtle nod: the cinematographic effect of lens flare harking back to select scenes used for dramatic effect in the original Minority Report movie here, just like the obnoxious, lingering close-up of the cannabis breath strips in episode 3 and the ham-fisted, preachy world building (genetic engineering in agriculture, climate change and its implications, average products of contemporary pop culture being classics in 2065) throughout the series. That and the writing (of a show that has generally struggled to find its tone throughout its run) make the whole thing so gratingly juvenile I'm struggling to work up a great deal of regret over being rid of it in a week.

 

 

Lastly: several insiders (the showrunner himself and Laura Regan/Agatha) said that the Memento Mori story arc would be concluded next episode, but that there would still be a (big) cliffhanger overall. With a show that has seen the writing on the wall regarding its pretty much inevitable cancellation for months, and seeing how they were still shooting scenes until last week (the cast was/is pretty active with posting behind the scenes stuff on social media and substiancial parts of what turned out to be this episode's Meat Factory scene and an outdoor chase involving Blake and Vega next episode were shot as late as then) I'm not sure I'd appreciate that.

 

 

I'm going to pepare myself for the pre-cogs voluntarily going into the milk bath for one "session" in a one-off deal to save humanity from Memento Mori with Vega watching on, while the last scene we get will be Blomfeld and the DIA/ Blomfeld's new civilian contractor friend walzing in at the last minute and force Vega/Wally at gunpoint to keep them under for reasons of national security.

 

 

 

Another random observation: the interior of the Meat Factory was also very obviously the heavily remodeled set of Dash's apartment and the corresponding hallway - the basic layout, that big window and the peculiar color scheme and texture of all the walls were the same, everything else was gutted/redesigned. So they're obviously scrapping/repurposing key sound stage sets - further evidence that nobody is under any pretenses that the show is effectively dead? Also - am I the only one who thinks Arthur's apartment was very different from what we've seen in all episodes before? It's like they're not even trying anmore, heh.

 

 

 

On a positive note: at least one of the actors, Li Jun Li (Akeela), seems to have found new work already - she's been confirmed to become a recurring character for the "return leg"/ back order of Quantico. Looks like a rescission on contract for the Minority Report cast, then. Why not confirm the termination? Anyway, I'm very happy for the actress, who turned into one of my favorites on this show, even with how little she's been given to work with.

 

 

[Pointer]

The question, I believe is, how far do you have to go, to try and save another? [...]

 

excellent point, Netfoot.

 

retired colonel and West Point lecturer Dave Grossman has an interesting take on this in his (at least in civilian circles) most well-known book "On Killing": the 'Sheep, Wolf, Sheepdog' typification of people - you may have heard of it in/from military/law enforcement circles or seen an overly short, simplistic allusion to it in American Sniper.

 

Interesting stuff, for sure. As someone who grew up firmly around "sheep"(who I can completely understand) but has come to increasingly deal with a lot of "sheepdogs"(who I can't help but greatly respect and admire on the whole), I can definitely attest to the basic intrinsic mindsets/hardwired personality types existing, though perhaps not as clear cut/ starkly differentiated as the original analogy implies. While I've certainly met many a pure-bred sheepdog and an overwhelming number of sheep, I've also come to meet quite a few people who I'd categorize as somewhere between sheep and sheepdog, depending on the situation.

 

If I had to categorize myself, I'd fall in there as well - my insticts and initial reactions in immediately threatening situations have (so far into my life) been decidedly on the sheepdog side, much to the consternation of most of the genuine sheep in my life who care about me. But so far, all my actions in those situations were, both initially and retrospectively, justifiably calculated risks appropriate to the first impression of the threat level as well as my "problem-solving" skill set. I've never tried to insert myself into situations/play the hero when I knew I'd absolutely be in over my head.

 

Would I tackle a suicide bomber with the near-certain chance of death from this encounter, but knowing I'd also be certain to save the lives of at least half a dozen bystanders like Adel Termos did in Beirut two weeks ago? Damned if I know, honestly.

 

 

 

But I can certainly see Dash being a rabidly convinced sheepdog "puppy"/untrained sheepdog. I've seen people with exactly that kind of extreme sheepdog reflex, both apparently intrinsic to their personality and honed to that degree as a result of past experiences.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Pointer