Spoilers and Spoiler Speculation: Benchmarking

[ChaChaSlide]

4 hours ago, Chas411 said:

he's not who I would have pictured but now I think he could be good in the role mainly cause he's always given me the creeps. Even on Glee where he was meant to be good.

This. I came in to say that his portrayal of Mr.Shue always came off slightly sinister to me, even though he was a fairly innocuous character. I know he will do well in an out-and-out asshole role.

I knew Maggie's mama was going to die. Now it's a question of nurture vs nature; will she succumb to the seemingly inherited DarkAndTwisty™ from Ellis and Meredith, or will she still be affable and softhearted like her adoptive parents and her biological father, Richard? 

[North]

12 hours ago, BaseOps said:

Ah, well your original post didn't say "doctors" anywhere in it. Regardless, Wilmer had a big arc and lots of screentime for 5 episodes, and Maggie's mom has already had more to do than Intern Isaac ever did. Anyway, it just seems like an odd thing to point out considering they still have one of the most diverse casts on TV (and they're literally all doctors) including a diverse guest cast. Like, is your point that they won't specifically cast doctors of color? They just cast one in a pretty big role in the prison episode. Casting a few white characters doesn't really mean anything.

Actually I kind of get what funnygirl is saying.

Most of POCs that they hire now are one offs or have  a finite shelf life.  Maggie's mother and Wilmer's character were characters that would not go beyond their function.

The main cast POCs don't seem to have a lot going on storywise.  Bailey drops in as chief every so often, Richard is being shoved aside for another non-POC character, Maggie was set up to provide drama for Meredith and Nathan (she's finally getting a storyline but how long is that going to last once her mother dies?), Jackson only gets a story when there is a Japril centric episode, and Stephanie has been so under utilized Jerrika Hinton finally realized she deserves better.

Most of the important storylines are centred around the non-POCs and it seems like the POCs are sacrificed to further those stories.  That's just how it feels.

[BaseOps]

Quote

 

Actually I kind of get what funnygirl is saying.

Most of POCs that they hire now are one offs or have  a finite shelf life.  Maggie's mother and Wilmer's character were characters that would not go beyond their function.have  a finite shelf life.  Maggie's mother and Wilmer's character were characters that would not go beyond their function.

The main cast POCs don't seem to have a lot going on storywise.  Bailey drops in as chief every so often, Richard is being shoved aside for another non-POC character, Maggie was set up to provide drama for Meredith and Nathan (she's finally getting a storyline but how long is that going to last once her mother dies?), Jackson only gets a story when there is a Japril centric episode, and Stephanie has been so under utilized Jerrika Hinton finally realized she deserves better.

Most of the important storylines are centred around the non-POCs and it seems like the POCs are sacrificed to further those stories.  That's just how it feels.centred around the non-POCs and it seems like the POCs are sacrificed to further those stories.  That's just how it feels.

 

 

Are you serious? I actually don't mean to rude, but that genuinely sounds like it's coming from someone who doesn't watch the show...

Bailey and Richard have been staples of the series for 13 years; the entire 'civil war' storyline is centered on Bailey betraying Richard and hiring Eliza. Webber has had more to do this year than he has in ages; we had a full episode centered on Richard / Mama Avery / Jackson / April (plus the surgery episode where he remembered his mother), he's fighting with his wife, on the outs with Bailey and Arizona. He's had tons of screentime and the main storyline of the season so far is revolving around him / the doctors rallying to preserve his legacy as a teacher in the hospital.

Jackson had his own episode and is always one of the most prominently-featured actors (he gets heaps more to do than Alex, Riggs, DeLuca, and even Owen... basically every white male in the cast). He and April always have something to do, at least one major arc every year (Samuel, the divorce, Harriet, etc.) and now he's been involved in several, including the 'civil war' storyline and Maggie's mom's story. Heck, Jackson has had TONS more to do than Meredith this season.

People here literally complain all the time about how much screentime Maggie gets, so arguing that she has nothing to do seems like a massive stretch. Are you really trying to reduce her role to being setup for Meredith / Riggs? That was dropped after like 3 episodes. She dominated storytelling since she came on (her background with Richard / Meredith, the relationship with DeLuca, the 'sisters' angle, now the storyline with her mom). Ben had his big storyline for multiple episodes last year, and Stef did too. The fact is that every cast member, regardless of their color, gets reduced roles at times given the massive size of the cast - look at Jo.

This all just seems like a crazy stretch to me. There's really no way to logically argue that the series undervalues any of its cast members of color. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by BaseOps

[North]

32 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

Are you serious? I actually don't mean to rude, but that genuinely sounds like it's coming from someone who doesn't watch the show...

Bailey and Richard have been staples of the series for 13 years; the entire 'civil war' storyline is centered on Bailey betraying Richard and hiring Eliza. Webber has had more to do this year than he has in ages; we had a full episode centered on Richard / Mama Avery / Jackson / April (plus the surgery episode where he remembered his mother), he's fighting with his wife, on the outs with Bailey and Arizona. He's had tons of screentime and the main storyline of the season so far is revolving around him / the doctors rallying to preserve his legacy as a teacher in the hospital.

Jackson had his own episode and is always one of the most prominently-featured actors (he gets heaps more to do than Alex, Riggs, DeLuca, and even Owen... basically every white male in the cast). He and April always have something to do, at least one major arc every year (Samuel, the divorce, Harriet, etc.) and now he's been involved in several, including the 'civil war' storyline and Maggie's mom's story. Heck, Jackson has had TONS more to do than Meredith this season.

People here literally complain all the time about how much screentime Maggie gets, so arguing that she has nothing to do seems like a massive stretch. Are you really trying to reduce her role to being setup for Meredith / Riggs? That was dropped after like 3 episodes. She dominated storytelling since she came on (her background with Richard / Meredith, the relationship with DeLuca, the 'sisters' angle, now the storyline with her mom). Ben had his big storyline for multiple episodes last year, and Stef did too. The fact is that every cast member, regardless of their color, gets reduced roles at times given the massive size of the cast - look at Jo.

This all just seems like a crazy stretch to me. There's really no way to logically argue that the series undervalues any of its cast members of color. 

But again the main focus of Richard's storyline is that he is being pushed aside for another non-POC character.  If Minnick stays, what happens to Richard's role once he forgives Bailey which looks like it's coming.

Bailey has been damaged badly by this storyline.

Beyond the Japril centric episode and snarking at April what has Jackson had to do.  Alex had a huge arc to start the season and if those Matthew Morrison pictures mean anything it looks like Alex will have an arc to end the season. Owen and Amelia have their arc which is continuing.  Riggs started with his Meredith and Maggie triangle and then there was a lull but it looks like Meredith and Nathan are gearing up again.

Beyond this current storyline with her mother what has Maggie had to do with regards to a storyline that was just for her?

I'm sorry but your post is coming off as be happy with what you get which I'm sure isn't what you mean.

While the cast may be diverse there is room for criticism in terms of how they are utilized.

Edited March 28, 2017 by North

[BaseOps]

20 minutes ago, North said:

But again the main focus of Richard's storyline is that he is being pushed aside for another non-POC character.  If Minnick stays, what happens to Richard's role once he forgives Bailey which looks like it's coming.

Bailey has been damaged badly by this storyline.

Beyond the Japril centric episode and snarking at April what has Jackson had to do.  Alex had a huge arc to start the season.  Owen and Amelia have had their arc which is continuing.  Riggs started with his Meredith and Maggie triangle and then there was a lull but it looks like Meredith and Nathan are gearing up again.

Beyond this current storyline with her mother what has Maggie had to do with regards to a storyline that was just for her?

I'm sorry but your post is coming off as be happy with what you get which I'm sure isn't what you mean.

While the cast may be diverse there is room for criticism in terms of how they are utilized.

 

But the white cast is utilized exactly the same way - Alex had a storyline for a few episodes that was wrapped up in ridiculous fashion and pushed aside. Jo is literally never given anything to do. Ditto for DeLuca. Arizona went all last year without a real storyline of her own until the custody thing popped up. It happens all the time on this show. 

You really think Richard is just going to disappear because Minnick showed up? They've done these types of storylines 10,000 times. Richard has gotten a ton of screentime out of it - more than Minnick, even. Owen and Amelia's 'storyline' has literally been her hiding from him right up until the last two episodes. The dominant storyline for the entire middle section of the season has been the war of Richard / Jackson  vs Minnick / April / Mama Avery / Bailey. Characters like Meredith and April were used as props in that storyline. Jackson has had tons to do, and arguably the meatiest episode of the entire season thus far. You can't just say "OKAY BUT BEEESIDES THAT" when literally every storyline this year has heavily involved the colored members of the cast. Jackson is consistently featured more prominently than any of the other male leads. He and April are the biggest romantic coupling left on the series, and the episode they got this year wasn't even based on romance, it was pure character development for Jackson. 

Maggie's storyline with her mom has been the focus of two episodes, and she'll be at the center of the storytelling for at least two more. That's about as much of an 'arc' as any characters get on this show these days. Her storyline with DeLuca was a huge one last season, too, and the Riggs thing centered as much on her as it did on Meredith. She's featured heavily in basically every single episode. 

"Be happy with what you get" is not even close to the sentiment of my post, but I think calling out Grey's, of all shows, for this particular issue feels like the reach of the century, especially when all of the 'points' backing up the idea just don't make sense. 

[North]

39 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

But the white cast is utilized exactly the same way - Alex had a storyline for a few episodes that was wrapped up in ridiculous fashion and pushed aside. Jo is literally never given anything to do. Ditto for DeLuca. Arizona went all last year without a real storyline of her own until the custody thing popped up. It happens all the time on this show. 

You really think Richard is just going to disappear because Minnick showed up? They've done these types of storylines 10,000 times. Richard has gotten a ton of screentime out of it - more than Minnick, even. Owen and Amelia's 'storyline' has literally been her hiding from him right up until the last two episodes. The dominant storyline for the entire middle section of the season has been the war of Richard / Jackson  vs Minnick / April / Mama Avery / Bailey. Characters like Meredith and April were used as props in that storyline. Jackson has had tons to do, and arguably the meatiest episode of the entire season thus far. You can't just say "OKAY BUT BEEESIDES THAT" when literally every storyline this year has heavily involved the colored members of the cast. Jackson is consistently featured more prominently than any of the other male leads. He and April are the biggest romantic coupling left on the series, and the episode they got this year wasn't even based on romance, it was pure character development for Jackson. 

Maggie's storyline with her mom has been the focus of two episodes, and she'll be at the center of the storytelling for at least two more. That's about as much of an 'arc' as any characters get on this show these days. Her storyline with DeLuca was a huge one last season, too, and the Riggs thing centered as much on her as it did on Meredith. She's featured heavily in basically every single episode. 

"Be happy with what you get" is not even close to the sentiment of my post, but I think calling out Grey's, of all shows, for this particular issue feels like the reach of the century, especially when all of the 'points' backing up the idea just don't make sense. 

You realize POC is different then using the term "colored" right?

It feels like you're talking over POCs to prove a point.

Alex had an arc and looks like he's getting another one.  Owen has an arc that was interrupted by maternity leave for Caterina Scorsone.  Riggs had an arc and it looks like it's coming back around.  I believe his arc was interrupted by maternity leave for Ellen Pompeo.  Interesting you mention Jessica Capshaw last year who was pregnant so that affected her storylines but what about Sara Ramirez (WOC) last season?  She was woefully underused for no reason and then Callie was damaged by the custody battle that was used to prop up the other non-POC character in the battle.

Jackson had one episode where he got something that was just for him.  One.

Most often this show uses it's POC characters to prop up the non-POC characters in my opinion.  You disagree.

I'm not sure why you're set on proving how I feel wrong, but ultimately it is the way I feel about this show.

Edited March 28, 2017 by North

[DearEvette]

I think under-utilizing a large cast is a big problem with the show.  But it is kind of a different issue than what the original poster pointed ut which is the overwhelming whiteness of the recurring cast.

To be fair, the show is diverse and has been for a long time.  And yes, I do think the show has short shrifted all but a few characters over the last few years especially.  Stephanie is probably the worse served character right now and she only wins out over DeLuca because she has been there longer and the opportunities to give her a rich back story and a real present life have basically disappeared now that she is leaving. 

Cristina, Callie and Richard were probably the POC characters whom I would argue have had the best character development, were able to drive story, and had rich inner lives that mattered on the show.  Maggie is close but I think her character suffers from the pacing and lack of focus that seems to have characterized the show these past three-four seasons.  She has screen time but she is not being given the room to develop so it makes her charcter feel very ephemeral. And honestly, I have always felt that Bailey was the quintessential HBIC character that often goes to WOC on tv who are put in a position of authority and allowed to come out and make authoritatiran pronouncements but got no real character development for themselves.  Luckily that changed in later seasons, but unfortunately I see the pendulum swinging back that way for Bailey.

Which brings me to the recurring character issue.  Over the years we've had a lot of long story arc doctors who have come on the show:  Gina Davis' Dr. Herman, Peter MacNicol's Dr. Stark, Teddy, Erica Hahn, Penny and recent hires like Riggs  and DeLuca , bringing back Murphy and now Minnick and whomever Morrison's character is going to be and you know if Riggs' wife ain't dead she'll probably come and stay awhile cuz she's a doctor too.  So yeah, the people who do come on board lately to stay and have longer arcs that are being used to drive story have not been as diverse as they could have been.  It is rather depressing when you think of it that way. 

[North]

2 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I think under-utilizing a large cast is a big problem with the show.  But it is kind of a different issue than what the original poster pointed ut which is the overwhelming whiteness of the recurring cast.

To be fair, the show is diverse and has been for a long time.  And yes, I do think the show has short shrifted all but a few characters over the last few years especially.  Stephanie is probably the worse served character right now and she only wins out over DeLuca because she has been there longer and the opportunities to give her a rich back story and a real present life have basically disappeared now that she is leaving. 

Cristina, Callie and Richard were probably the POC characters whom I would argue have had the best character development, were able to drive story, and had rich inner lives that mattered on the show.  Maggie is close but I think her character suffers from the pacing and lack of focus that seems to have characterized the show these past three-four seasons.  She has screen time but she is not being given the room to develop so it makes her charcter feel very ephemeral. And honestly, I have always felt that Bailey was the quintessential HBIC character that often goes to WOC on tv who are put in a position of authority and allowed to come out and make authoritatiran pronouncements but got no real character development for themselves.  Luckily that changed in later seasons, but unfortunately I see the pendulum swinging back that way for Bailey.

Which brings me to the recurring character issue.  Over the years we've had a lot of long story arc doctors who have come on the show:  Gina Davis' Dr. Herman, Peter MacNicol's Dr. Stark, Teddy, Erica Hahn, Penny and recent hires like Riggs  and DeLuca , bringing back Murphy and now Minnick and whomever Morrison's character is going to be and you know if Riggs' wife ain't dead she'll probably come and stay awhile cuz she's a doctor too.  So yeah, the people who do come on board lately to stay and have longer arcs that are being used to drive story have not been as diverse as they could have been.  It is rather depressing when you think of it that way. 

Well said.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, North said:

ut again the main focus of Richard's storyline is that he is being pushed aside for another non-POC character.  If Minnick stays, what happens to Richard's role once he forgives Bailey which looks like it's coming.

 

Honestly, I'd be shocked at this point if Minnick stays around.  Judging not just from the posts here, but when I wade into comments on social media posts (hey...sometimes they are the most entertaining thing on the internet!), she is almost (not quite, bu almost) universally hated.   Like, Erica Hahn level hatred.  If the show were trying to portray her as some sort of villain, I could see why they might try to keep her around.  But, it is pretty clear that they are consciously trying to go in the opposite direction.

This season has been...problematic.  I would hope that Shonda and Debbie and whoever else calls the shots would realize this.  As it is now, it would still be fairly easy to give Minnick a believable exit at the end of the season.  I just hope they see that this is a problem and address it.

[jaync]

Quote

This all just seems like a crazy stretch to me. There's really no way to logically argue that the series undervalues any of its cast members of color. 

Yeah, it seems like a case of looking for tits on an ant.

[Deanie87]

10 hours ago, Chas411 said:

he's not who I would have pictured but now I think he could be good in the role mainly cause he's always given me the creeps. Even on Glee where he was meant to be good.

I never watched Glee, so I have never seen him anything, but I think that a charming, nice guy veneer is absolutely essential to who this guy is and why Jo finds him so dangerous.  The only thing that seems off for me is his age.  I don't know the actor's age, but he seems younger than Justin Chambers and I always pictured the guy being 15-20 years older than Jo and powerful/influential in some respect.  I don't get that from this actor in the very, very brief instances that I have seen him.  If anyone is watching Big Little Lies on HBO, Alexander Skarsgaard is doing an incredible job of playing the "handsome and charming, almost too good to be true husband who has a VERY dark side."  I have absolutely no illusions that the Grey's writers are interested, much less capable, of such a nuanced, powerful character, but I hope that they are watching at the very least to see how it could be done.   Its about power and control, and there are a lot of grey areas.

As far as the utilization, or lack thereof, of the different actors, I think that it has always been pretty obvious that Shonda has her favorites, and that more than anything has determined screentime (sadly, Shonda's favorites and mine have never overlapped.)  Sometimes the favorite was a POC (Yang, Callie) and sometimes it wasn't (Izzie).  In the earlier seasons, things seemed to be a bit more equal, but now, no one gets much decent screentime and no one gets very good storylines, regardless of color.  Maggie is going on her second semi-centric episode and she has been here a lot less than most.  But the more screentime she gets, the worse the writers make her look, so is that a win?  Stephanie gets almost no love interest and not much backstory, but she has been shown to be a better friend and surgeon than Jo, who gets nothing but romantic partners and backstory.  So who is better off?  

DearEvette is right that many/most of the recurring characters lately have been white, and the ones who aren't actually really couldn't be due to who they are related to (such as Maggie's mom), but I would be very surprised if that were any conscious choice.  As an example, Minnick was most likely cast because she is Scott Foley's wife (and Shonda clearly LOVES Scott Foley.)  The other Arizona hookup was Denny's wife (and the less said about Shonda's feelings for Denny the better for me.)  Shondaland has a habit of casting the same actors for all of their shows.  Since the people with the most control over the show these days are black women (Shonda, Debbie Allen and the woman who is now the head of ABC), it seems as though its who you know more than anything else.  But, at the same time, if there is a public perception that most of the opportunities are going to white people, then I'm not sure it really matters why.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Deanie87

[jabbi]

5 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Honestly, I'd be shocked at this point if Minnick stays around.  Judging not just from the posts here, but when I wade into comments on social media posts (hey...sometimes they are the most entertaining thing on the internet!), she is almost (not quite, bu almost) universally hated.   Like, Erica Hahn level hatred.  If the show were trying to portray her as some sort of villain, I could see why they might try to keep her around.  But, it is pretty clear that they are consciously trying to go in the opposite direction.

This season has been...problematic.  I would hope that Shonda and Debbie and whoever else calls the shots would realize this.  As it is now, it would still be fairly easy to give Minnick a believable exit at the end of the season.  I just hope they see that this is a problem and address it.

This, exactly. I really thought season 12 was setting us up for a little bit of a redemption, but season 13 has been a nightmare from start to finish. The episodes don't really flow together, the storylines are hard to follow, and the new characters are making the cast overwhelming. I have a few episodes in my DVR I haven't even watched because it's become a chore. 

[Layne]

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

To be fair, the show is diverse and has been for a long time.  

It hasn't been diverse in a long time. There are only two races represented (black and white) since Yang and Torres left, and throughout 13 seasons they've never had a single gay male doctor. It's not a very colorful cast. 

[OtterMommy]

9 minutes ago, Layne said:

It hasn't been diverse in a long time. There are only two races represented (black and white) since Yang and Torres left, and throughout 13 seasons they've never had a single gay male doctor. It's not a very colorful cast. 

It's also not realistically diverse.  In addition to what you mentioned, where are all the SE Asian and Middle Eastern Doctors?  Those groups are well represented in pretty much every hospital (except GSMMWSGH).

Of course, I'm not sure I really want them to add more doctors--but I'd be all for them swapping out a few of their current ones.

[Pink ranger]

5 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

 If anyone is watching Big Little Lies on HBO, Alexander Skarsgaard is doing an incredible job of playing the "handsome and charming, almost too good to be true husband who has a VERY dark side."  I have absolutely no illusions that the Grey's writers are interested, much less capable, of such a nuanced, powerful character, but I hope that they are watching at the very least to see how it could be done.   Its about power and control, and there are a lot of grey areas.

 

There is a big difference from Big Little Lies from the outset though, Jo and her husband are  all ready seperated. The abusive dynamic between them will be more as a memory and not as strong and when they where together since Jo has already done the hardest part by leaving him.

[Layne]

37 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

It's also not realistically diverse.  In addition to what you mentioned, where are all the SE Asian and Middle Eastern Doctors?  Those groups are well represented in pretty much every hospital (except GSMMWSGH).

Yes this bothers me more than it should, because it's just sooo unrepresentative of reality. I didn't really notice it until beginning of Season 9, when the new group of interns consisted of three white girls, one black girl and one black guy, all 5 of them American-born (even though more than 25% of physicians and surgeons in the US are foreign-born) and I was like "Wait where's the Indian girl?" I live in the US and every time I have to choose a new PCP, the list of physicians is heavily comprised of Indian women. Where did these do their internships? Definitely not GSMMWSGH. 

I thought they might bring in a Middle Eastern character after April returned from Jordan (like maybe a Jordanian doctor) but we got another white guy instead (Riggs). They brought in a little Syrian boy who April had met over there (the kid with the crazy hand tumors) but no Syrian physicians. It was such a missed opportunity to add more diversification of culture, skill and perspective to the main cast. 

And then they introduced a new class of interns at the beginning of Season 12 and it was 3 white guys (there was a black female intern too but I don't think she even had a name). The most "diverse" intern they've ever had in this show was the old guy from one of the earlier seasons. 

12 minutes ago, Pink ranger said:

There is a big difference from Big Little Lies from the outset though, Jo and her husband are  all ready seperated. The abusive dynamic between them will be more as a memory and not as strong and when they where together since Jo has already done the hardest part by leaving him.

They had a similar arc on Scandal and the abusive dynamic between the couple (who had been divorced for a while) was stronger than ever. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Layne
oops, didnt realize these two completely unrelated comments would be merged together!

[North]

39 minutes ago, Layne said:

Yes this bothers me more than it should, because it's just sooo unrepresentative of reality. I didn't really notice it until beginning of Season 9, when the new group of interns consisted of three white girls, one black girl and one black guy, all 5 of them American-born (even though more than 25% of physicians and surgeons in the US are foreign-born) and I was like "Wait where's the Indian girl?" I live in the US and every time I have to choose a new PCP, the list of physicians is heavily comprised of Indian women. Where did these do their internships? Definitely not GSMMWSGH. 

I thought they might bring in a Middle Eastern character after April returned from Jordan (like maybe a Jordanian doctor) but we got another white guy instead (Riggs). They brought in a little Syrian boy who April had met over there (the kid with the crazy hand tumors) but no Syrian physicians. It was such a missed opportunity to add more diversification of culture, skill and perspective to the main cast. 

And then they introduced a new class of interns at the beginning of Season 12 and it was 3 white guys (there was a black female intern too but I don't think she even had a name). The most "diverse" intern they've ever had in this show was the old guy from one of the earlier seasons. 

This is a really good point.

There is a lot more to diversity than what Grey's Anatomy portrays.

[Deanie87]

19 hours ago, Pink ranger said:

There is a big difference from Big Little Lies from the outset though, Jo and her husband are  all ready seperated. The abusive dynamic between them will be more as a memory and not as strong and when they where together since Jo has already done the hardest part by leaving him.

I didn't mean the relationship between Jo and the husband, as much I did how good the characterization for the abusive husband is on BLL and how well the actor plays him.  I don't expect anything even close to this from Grey's, but I am hoping that they can do something a little better than they have been.  This is a serious subject and one that affects millions of people, and so far it has been framed as either how it affects the men in Jo's life or as just another minor sob story that Jo trots out because she has nothing else to do.  That is the situation at best.  At worst, it frames the story with Alex as the victim, with poor DeLuca and even Meredith getting caught up in Jo's evil, lying, bitchy web, and even that somehow Jo deserves it for any number of reasons.  I want better than that from a domestic violence story, even one on Grey's. I don't really think I"m going to get it, but I hope that if this is the introduction to Jo's husband that we finally get around to it being Jo's story and that the husband is written in a way that improves on how they have presented (or not presented) this issue so far.  

[BaseOps]

From EW: 

Do you know anything about the Grey’s Anatomy finale?
It is not going to be a quiet affair. “It’s an event,” Kelly McCreary tells me. “It’s a great big event that will keep everyone on the edge of their seats. It really is shocking. There were so many gasps of horror and surprise at the table read. It was delicious. It was just so much fun.” Should we be worried about the docs of Grey Sloan? “You should be worried about everybody,” McCreary adds. “It is an event that affects everyone in the hospital.”

[Maukie99]

Spoiler

 

I do not know if everyone wants to see it. But this is a shot video of Martin Henderson aka Nathan and Ellen Pompeo aka Meredith from the episode 13x24 to the hospital car park. Merthan fans would be very happy about it. We will probably expect much in 13x24. Maybe Grey's got another baby? ;-)

[Chas411]

Just in the possibility of Jos husband arriving - I'm not sure if Camilla is still filming at this point so whether she's have much presence in the finale is still up in the air. I wonder if they'll have Alex meet her husband, get along with him and then Jo sees him and is all gasp, shock, Nooooo!!

They can Hardly finish up another season around Alex kicking the crap out of someone...

[Maukie99]

Supposedly we are supposed to see Jo's ex husband or husband, as always in the episode 13x22 or 13x23, he is also to be a surgeon and even start afresh at the Grey Sloan.

[BaseOps]

So.... Jaggie? Maggson? 

[Ohwell]

As long as Maggie's not with DeLuca.  He's mine. : )  Seriously, he deserves a nice, sane woman.  And please, not Jo.

Actually, I'd like to see Riggs warm up to Maggie and realize that he really likes her, and they wind up together.  Then I'd like to see the look on Meredith's face.

[Chas411]

Pity they never put as much effort into integrating Jo and Stephanie as they do Maggie. Looks like another eye rolling centric episode for her.

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

As long as Maggie's not with DeLuca.  He's mine. : )  Seriously, he deserves a nice, sane woman.  And please, not Jo.

You'll have to fight me for him!! ;-D

As for Riggs and Meredith or Maggie.  I'm not wild about him with Meredith, but it isn't a deal breaker for me.  It's really just run of the mill for this show and, well, he's more interesting than Penny and not as distasteful as Minnick, so that is already in his favor.  I actually find him a little better suited to Maggie.  Still I'd rather they not do any coupling up there.  I'm sick of every character having to be in some other character's bed and I'm actually enjoying th sister relationship growing between Meredith and Maggie (but not so much with Amelia....)

[Deanie87]

I don't know what it is about Maggie and that swing, but I remember all the Alex/Maggie speculation when they had a scene together on the swing. 

[Chas411]

Giacomo confirmed he's wrapped for the season on Instagram.

[flickers]

12 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

I don't know what it is about Maggie and that swing, but I remember all the Alex/Maggie speculation when they had a scene together on the swing. 

Maybe they're trying different options with her. Maggie's too major a character to go without a love interest, but nothing they have tried so far has really clicked.

[BaseOps]

I appreciate that they haven't rushed into anything permanent for Maggie. They threw Owen / Amelia together rather than letting them both try out different options for a while; as soon as Minnick showed up they made it obvious that she was for Arizona; April / Jackson are in the old Meredith and Derek position of 'regardless of what happens, we know they'll end up together unless one dies or moves away'... Alex and Jo basically don't exist as a couple. I'm glad we have Meredith and Riggs so there's at least a chance of seeing something nice blossom. I'm glad that they've taken their time getting those two together, and it's nice that Maggie is still available too. I honestly wouldn't mind if they went for her with Jackson to shake things up, but I also appreciate if they're just trying to build a nice friendship between the two of them. I love when this show focuses on friendships over sex. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by BaseOps

[Layne]

20 hours ago, BaseOps said:

So.... Jaggie? Maggson? 

Aren't they like... step siblings?

[Chas411]

http://tvline.com/2017/04/05/greys-anatomy-season-13-spoilers-jackson-maggie-sex/

 

I don't know... The writers/producers ADORE Maggie so would they really put her in the middle of the only pairing they have left? I always thought it would be Alex since they've no interest in Jo but i assume that hasn't happened on the off chance the decide to use him as Merediths happy ending.

[Ohwell]

I'm confused about some of these relationships because I haven't watched every season so help me out here, lol.  Who are Maggie's biological parents? Richard is Maggie's stepfather, right?  And Diane and the guy who showed up last week to see her are Maggie's adoptive parents?  

[Layne]

28 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

http://tvline.com/2017/04/05/greys-anatomy-season-13-spoilers-jackson-maggie-sex/

 

I don't know... The writers/producers ADORE Maggie so would they really put her in the middle of the only pairing they have left? I always thought it would be Alex since they've no interest in Jo but i assume that hasn't happened on the off chance the decide to use him as Merediths happy ending.

It's not just the only pairing they have left; it's the only pairing with a child. This literally puts Maggie in homewrecker territory.

It would create all kinds of awkward tension at future family gatherings too, considering their birth parents are married.

Although if they ever bear a child together, he/she will be a biological descendant of both Catherine and Richard, so that'd be kind of interesting.

[beowoof]

3 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I'm confused about some of these relationships because I haven't watched every season so help me out here, lol.  Who are Maggie's biological parents? Richard is Maggie's stepfather, right?  And Diane and the guy who showed up last week to see her are Maggie's adoptive parents?  

Richard and Ellis are Maggie's biological parents, that's why she's Meredith's (half) sister. Diane and the man who showed up when Diane died are Maggie's adoptive parents.

[Layne]

6 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I'm confused about some of these relationships because I haven't watched every season so help me out here, lol.  Who are Maggie's biological parents? Richard is Maggie's stepfather, right?  And Diane and the guy who showed up last week to see her are Maggie's adoptive parents?  

Maggie's biological parents are Richard Webber and Ellis Grey. Her adoptive parents are Diane and the guy who flew in on a helicopter last week.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Layne
this comment is now redundant. where is the Delete button?

[Ohwell]

Thanks, y'all!

[BaseOps]

1 hour ago, Layne said:

It's not just the only pairing they have left; it's the only pairing with a child. This literally puts Maggie in homewrecker territory.

It would create all kinds of awkward tension at future family gatherings too, considering their birth parents are married.

Although if they ever bear a child together, he/she will be a biological descendant of both Catherine and Richard, so that'd be kind of interesting.

 

She wouldn't really be a homewrecker considering Jackson and April are divorced. April is on Tinder...

[Court]

I just can't picture Jackson and Maggie together at all.

[DearEvette]

Yeah, not feeling them.  Even though they aren't related, Maggie and Jackson look enough alike to be brother and sister.  And they both have that slight lisp.  It makes Grey's feels even more incestuous than it already is.

I really wish they weren't so resistant to letting the main characters have long term love interests that aren't also other Sloan Grey Doctors.  My favorite relationship of Owen's was when he was with Emma.  I thought he and she had some really good chemistry.  Or even have the docs have relationships with people who aren't doctors.  Again, I liked April with her paramedic guy.

If they have to pair Maggie with someone it'd be interesting to see her with Alex.  He is such the 100% complete opposite of her they'd be like oil and water.  Now that would really be Messy, especially if Jo and DeLuca really do pair up. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by DearEvette

[Layne]

2 hours ago, BaseOps said:

She wouldn't really be a homewrecker considering Jackson and April are divorced. April is on Tinder...

Well Jackson, April and Harriet all share the same home right now, in which they are co-parenting a child. Anyone who dates/sleeps with either Jackson or April is entering homewrecker territory.

April was on Tinder (as was Jackson, but we don't know if either is still active), she received Jackson's blessing, and she's only gone out for dinner and only with one, maybe two guys -- guys who Jackson doesn't work with. Jackson and April work together, their workplace is their second home, and as we know from the Leah & Calzona (who weren't even living together at the time) drama, that can create a hostile work environment, which would make Maggie come off looking like a troublemaker / homewrecker. Which, to Chas411's point, would be surprising since the writers seem to ADORE Maggie so much.

In the wake of her mother's death, they can set up a story arc where she becomes more carefree, loosens up and sleeps with one or several eligible bachelors -- maybe DeLuca (her ex), Riggs (who she has no idea Mere is into) and/or Alex (who Jo seems to want nothing to do with, not to mention Jo seems to be heading for a hookup with Maggie's ex) -- but her hooking up with Jackson would cross the line from carefree to careless, since he is living with the mother of his child, who happens to be someone Maggie works with every day.

I am not passing judgment here, just stating that in taking that direction, the writers would make her less sympathetic, and idk if that's something they're open to doing.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Layne
missed a couple of words

[Chas411]

11 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

If they have to pair Maggie with someone it'd be interesting to see her with Alex.  He is such the 100% complete opposite of her they'd be like oil and water. 

I personally wouldn't like to see this happen mainly as someone who would like to see Jo and Alex come back around. YMMV of course but I just don't think it's have the sizzle factor people expect when opposites hook up. It already failed with him and Lexie and Maggie is way more childish then she ever was. I wouldn't be shocked if they went there though I think the only thing holding them back is that Shonda can't decide if she legitimately wants Merlex to happen.

Either outcome has Alex ending up as a sister cheerleader for life. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Chas411

[Layne]

11 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Yeah, not feeling them.  Even though they aren't related, Maggie and Jackson look enough alike to be brother and sister.  And they both have that slight lisp.  It makes Grey's feels even more incestuous than it already is.

There's nothing Shonda Rhimes loves more than a good lisp!

[Layne]

15 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I really wish they weren't so resistant to letting the main characters have long term love interests that aren't also other Sloan Grey Doctors.  My favorite relationship of Owen's was when he was with Emma.  I thought he and she had some really good chemistry.  Or even have the docs have relationships with people who aren't doctors.  Again, I liked April with her paramedic guy.

Completely agree. I really liked Owen & Emma, April & her paramedic guy, Mere & that first guy she slept with after Derek who was a surgeon at another hospital, Teddy & Henry, and Bailey & Ben the Anesthesiologist. They need more non-surgeon characters on this show.

21 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

If they have to pair Maggie with someone it'd be interesting to see her with Alex.  He is such the 100% complete opposite of her they'd be like oil and water. 

I always loved the idea of an Alex & Heather Brooks pairing, for exactly this reason.

[flickers]

20 minutes ago, Layne said:

There's nothing Shonda Rhimes loves more than a good lisp!

Richard must have some powerful genes- his three "kids" all have a lisp. And he's not even a blood relation to two of them!

Edited April 5, 2017 by flickers

[Scatterbrained]

25 minutes ago, flickers said:

Richard must have some powerful genes- his three "kids" all have a lisp. And he's not even a blood relation to two of them!

LOL!  

I'm going to go in a different direction and say that Alex or Amelia will get confused over whose turn it is to sleep on the couch.  They'll both end up in bed together, accidentally, but maybe their late night or early morning conversations will take them someplace further....

Or they will get bunk beds or have beds separated by a dresser like tv couples did pre-Brady Bunch era, because, really, the couch situation cannot last forever, and their conversations will still be really interesting.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Scatterbrained

[Deanie87]

Y'all are killing me with this Alex speculation, you know that right?  I just don't think that Maggie and Alex would work, and these writers aren't good enough to change my mind.  Alex would have no patience for Maggie's emotional immaturity and I don't think Maggie could handle (or want any part of) Alex's darker tendencies.  He has talked to Amelia literally one time as far as I'm aware, which is all it really takes on this show, so why not?  The only other person on the show that I think he would be compatible with is Meredith, but I have less than zero interest in that, so I hope they finally resume the story that they started with Jo, you know, LAST season, and which seems like it will slowly crawl into next season as well.

If they have to pair everyone up, and we all know that they do, the easiest thing for them to do is to go with Riggs/Maggie, Jo/DeLuca and *sigh* Alex/Mer.  But Riggs has shown no interest in Maggie and that would be two sisters sharing a man, Jo has shown no interest in DeLuca and Mer/Alex is just so not an option for me.  So unless they somehow work their way back to Maggie/DeLuca, they are going to have to bring in another guy or give Minnick the boot and make Maggie bisexual. 

[BaseOps]

If Maggie / Alex was going to happen it would have already happened. It's obvious that the Alex / Jo storyline kicks back up in the final 4 episodes... most of us hate the way they handle them as a couple, but it seems clear that they're being kept together. If they were going to break them up and have one move on, this season would have been the opportunity for that.

I also thought that we were long past the Merlex speculation. Ellen has shot it down, Justin has shot it down, and they've had ample opportunity to 'go there', but Meredith is clearly being paired with Riggs. Next week's episode is literally just the two of them on an airplane for 42 minutes. Maggie is a wildcard, and I'm struggling to figure out what the hell they're doing with DeLuca. As much as I think it'd be interesting to see Maggie / Jackson, I don't think the writers' want to throw that big of a wrench into April / Jackson, who are basically the only BIG COUPLE left right now. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by BaseOps

[funnygirl]

Meredith and Nathan may be on a clear path to togetherness now, but eventually Megan is going to come back (let's face it, the show is going to go there at some point as a weaker, recycled version of Meredith/Derek/Addison), which will cause "drama" and may even end whatever Meredith and Nathan are.    

I personally don't think Meredith is going to end the series in a loving romantic relationship with someone else, anyway, nor do I think she should. But that's beside the point. 

The Alex and Jo stuff has just become exhausting, and that's the writers' fault for dragging it out for what will be the third season come season 14. 

And I think people are overthinking the Jackson/Maggie photo. I don't think they are going to go down the relationship route. Maybe Maggie ends up hooking up with Mathew Morrison's charming-but-bad character? 

Edited April 6, 2017 by funnygirl

[DearEvette]

Yeah my actual preference for Maggie is Riggs.  Since for ... reasons ...  they decided to jettison Maggie/DeLuca, the only other current cast member she actually clicked with for me is Riggs.  But Riggs is obviously reserved for Meredith.  Maggie had no chance there. 

I don't see her with Jackson for two reasons 1) like I said they feel too sibling-y and 2) I don't see them really seriously breaking up April/Jackson.  So to have Maggie embark on anything with Jackson when it would be clear that he and April will end up together would be yet another shitty thing to do to the character romantically.  The only reason I really picked out Alex is because, well, he's all that's left.  She's wouldn't get with Owen because of the Amelia connection (Gods, I hope not).  And since it looks like they might be trying to go there with DeLuca and Jo it makes sense for them to hook up.  But then again that would not be an issue if Grey's didn't make all their characters eat where they sleep, so to speak.