S02.E05: Sealed Fate

[HalcyonDays]

Episode synopsis: Abe makes one last effort to recruit a spy inside New York. Ben must determine who is a double agent.

[Kabota]

Well, that escalated quickly...holy crap on toast! I'll watch again tomorrow and write out my thoughts after, but just wanted to register my initial impression. Wow -- that was quite a way to end the first half of the season!

Edited May 5, 2015 by Kabota

[ketose]

I knew something was going to happen with Sackett, but I just thought he might be plotting with the British. Andre used Washington's own prejudices and suspicions against him.

 

Abe really is an idiot. It's a good thing we're close to 1778 when the real Culper Ring action begins. Ah, and now I know why I recognized the voice but not quite the face of Townsend's father. It's Phlox (John Billingsley)

Edited May 5, 2015 by ketose

[ComeWhatMay]

Numrich was great again tonight. Ben's "Wait!" & tight hug with Caleb, Ben's bawling as his eccentric, brilliant & beloved mentor & friend Sackett lay lifeless in his arms & Ben's bellowing at Washington in the throes of grief all the while looking gorgeous -- Hero 101. The writers scored with this actor. Really with the whole cast, but this dreamboat could be a steamboat for the show, I think. Hear ye AMC.

RIP Sackett. The best character deaths are the ones you feel -- I feel this one. Ouch.

Andre, you sexy bastard -- for real.

Rogers & Simcoe continue to creep me out just like they are supposed to...

I like dandy Hewlett. I hope he gets out of his Simcoe orchestrated jam. It's cute watching him try to court Anna with the bonus of annoying Richard & Mary.

Caleb & his not so fast "Frenchy" -- what a hoot. Awesome facial expressions & LMAO at Washington & Sackett's commentary as well as Ben's WTF face. Go on with your bad self, Brewster. I love Caleb's love for "Tall Boy" Ben. Now that's a bromance.

Abe *shakes head* -- he tries.

[Yolapukka]

The scenes of Abe getting caught were so ridiculous, I thought it was another of his worst-case scenario fantasies. His actions were ridiculous and the staging was outright silly. I honestly can't be arsed to care about his predicament since it all looked so sloppy.

 

Poor Major Hewlett, entrapped by Simcoe's malicious plotting. He is a genuinely decent man in trying times. I loved that he quickly realized what Anna needed from him when Simcoe rode in. 

 

I'm not pleased that Sackett was killed off. The character was an absolute delight and IRL his death was decades later.

Edited May 5, 2015 by yuggapukka

[Abigail394]

I love this show. Usually, I don't have much of a problem following the various plot threads. However, I am confused about some of what happened in tonight's episode.

I'm not clear about what was going on with Washington and Rogers in the flashback.

I'm somewhat confused about Shanks and the British soldier and the death of Sackett.

Also, who was captured carrying the document fom King George? I thought Caleb was involved in transporting that document?

Did we see where Townsend's father came from and how he got involved with Abe? Did I miss something there?

I'm also confused about what happened at the end with Major Hewlett. Who took him away, and why?

As I said, I usually don't have a problem following what is going on, but I found tonight's episode confusing. I'd be grateful for some guidance.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Abigail394

[Kabota]

I love this show. Usually, I don't have much of a problem following the various plot threads. However, I am confused about some of what happened in tonight's episode.

I'm not clear about what was going on with Washington and Rogers in the flashback.

Adaptation of history. Short story, Rogers did offer his services to the Americans after doing the same to the British, after pledging he wouldn't -- something like that. Ever the mercenary and in debt, he was looking for the better deal. I believe the Americans imprisoned him for a bit.

I'm somewhat confused about Shanks and the British soldier and the death of Sackett.

Also, who was captured carrying the document fom King George? I thought Caleb was involved in transporting that document?

Why was the Brit in Sackett's tent, I want to know? Wouldn't he have interrogated him someplace secure? Disguised as a trapper, the French agent was carrying the sealed document. Caleb was with one of the decoy parties elsewhere. Obviously, tracker Rogers was the winner here.

Did we see where Townsend's father came from and how he got involved with Abe? Did I miss something there?

Once again, carrying over from last episode, I'm a bit perplexed by Abe's dogged pursuit of Townsend, and his equally open discourse with Samuel. It does make you feel like, what did I miss? They're so chummy!

I'm also confused about what happened at the end with Major Hewlett. Who took him away, and why?

After ambushing the rebel camp last episode, Simcoe signed his tongue death note as from Hewlett. Seems that a group of rebels are exacting their revenge. No doubt Simcoe dropped breadcrumbs for them, all the way to Hewlett's door.

Well, history seemed to take a beating this episode, but it was such a suspenseful one, I'm willing to live with the revision; however, if the Brits know the name Culper, and the rebels know they know, will we need a new alias?

Edited May 5, 2015 by Kabota

[riverheightsnancy]

No Andre! Me no likey!  Anyway, was the Abe in real life this much of a screw-up? Seriously, this is like the three Stooges doing spycraft. Townsend was right. He acts like a boy playing at being a spy. 

[Kabota]

No Andre! Me no likey! Anyway, was the Abe in real life this much of a screw-up? Seriously, this is like the three Stooges doing spycraft. Townsend was right. He acts like a boy playing at being a spy.

He did get into a few tight scrapes, but not quite to these levels. They're mashing up historical characters and plots a good bit, and they've certainly succeeded in making the rebel intelligence community look incompetent from the lowest to the highest levels. In contrast, Andre's acumen has been exaggerated, and though he doesn't appear in this episode, his stamp is all over it, and he scores another one with Sutherland. I personally hope this is the low point for the ring et al. because, as I said after episode 4, I need to see some results soon. I'm afraid now, though, that's looking like a finale thing.

I'm so disappointed that Sackett is gone, but I feel I should've seen that coming despite history. His fake lie detector was hilarious. And asking Sutherland about Andre's braid...priceless! Of course, we get no intel there!

The Simcoe and Akinbode and Anna reunion was so sinister at first, and then Hewlett being all dapper to the rescue. I like Anna so much better away from Abe. I get impatient with the way the women are plotted, but maybe I'm looking at it too much through 21st century eyes.

Oh, hey, Billy Lee!

I just love Ben and Caleb. That is all.

Still wondering what Abigail is going to make of the boat...

Edited May 5, 2015 by Kabota

[Iboatedhere]

No no no no no no no no no.......nonononononono.

 

Someone give Ben a cookie and a blanket and tell him to sleep through the rest of the war. This is rough and heartbreaking and Andre deserves what's coming to him. When (if, really. God willing we get more seasons) he and Ben come face to face that's going to be a real show.

 

Poor Sackett.I will really miss him. I loved him with his phony polygraph machine, joking with Caleb that he hasn't trusted himself in years, and slapping Ben's hand away from the documents. He was funny but got the job done. He was also the one that was training Ben in all the spy stuff which is something he definitely needs. Right now he's kind of making this up as he goes along. At least he still has Caleb. I love how much they love each other and all the hugging. To quote Tommy Boy, "Brothers gotta hug!"

 

Poor Washington. But he was a total badass in that first scene with Rogers.

 

Poor Hewlett. He has come a long way from the guy that ripped up headstones to fortify the church. Now all he wants to do is look at the stars, hunt in his cute hunting outfit and flirt with Anna. Good for Anna for taking advantage of that friendship. She might not want the British here but she has never been safer than when she was walking away from Simcoe arm and arm with the major followed by a bunch of Redcoats. It also got us a shot of some EPIC stink eye from Mary as Anna and Hewlett were playing piano.

 

Richard Woodhull is a bit of a dick. Samuel Townsend is awesome. I do think Abe should just bypass Robert and work with Sam. It seems so much easier. But I know he'll eventually come around.

 

Don't feel that bad for Abe. We didn't see much of him this episode and that was fine. He can sit in British jail for a little while. I don't think we need him.

[EyewatchTV211]

Poor Ben. He finally had a win (in terms of correctly judging who was the spy), but his knowledge that he was correct came with such a high cost. :( And that's two huge boo-boos for Washington this episode. Yikes.

 

Abe just continues to be a boy, playing a man, playing a spy.

 

I'm eager for next week!

[bmoore4026]

Yay!  Abraham got caught!

 

Maybe they really will hang him and, if there's a next season, we'll get to focus on super cute Benjamin Tallmadge!   Dance, Abraham, dance!  DANCE ON AIR!  <laughs evilly>

[Primetimer]

Everyone's caught, busted, or stuck in this week's Turn -- and a key piece is taken off the board.

Read the story

[Yolapukka]

Having had most of a day to think about it, I've come to the conclusion that this weeks episode was a dumb fucking load of crap. It was bad enough to have me no longer caring about the show's low ratings. Abe's an immature moron, they really need to stop using him as the lead character. I've had patience for his mistakes and uncertainty because it had an actual arc and we saw him improve in skill, confidence and commitment. Now, however, it's clear that he's a nitwit the patriot side is stuck with. It was also an amazing stroke of idiocy to kill off Sackett (unless it was a fake-out, which I doubt) when they'd done such an effective job of establishing his idiosyncratic, wise character and importance. Here's an idea, if they are going to fictionalize this story to such a blatant extent, they should have made the character up entirely, rather than giving him the name and position of a man who died almost 30 years later. Also, the strategy of sending the french representative out with the document before the distractions intended to mislead Rogers made no sense whatsoever and it ended as disastrously as it unfortunately should have. It was just one incident after another of stupid piled on stupid. Ben and Caleb seemed less stupid than others, but that is not saying much. 

 

At least the arrest of Hewlett made sense, though I hated it.

[attica]

So Washington was correct in placing Andre at the Paoli Massacre. I think this was among his assignments when he was gone from Philadelphia, and when Peggy met and was won by Arnold. Not positive, but I think so.

[stanleyk]

I'm somewhat confused about Shanks and the British soldier and the death of Sackett.

As I understood it, Andre sent his henchman (Gamble, I believe was the name) into the camp in uniform; he was "caught" and claimed that he had come to warn the patriots that Shanks was going to inflitrate the camp and would use a piece of information to show his loyalty to patriots, thus gaining their trust in order to become an effective British spy. So then Shanks showed up and told Ben about the alleged plot to assassinate GW, which seemed to confirm Gamble's information.

 

GW then figured out that Shanks had deserted the patriot army after an earlier battle because he was about to be court-martialed, thus making GW and Sackett even more inclined to believe Gamble's story over Shanks'. But as it turned out, the entire thing was puppet-mastered by Andre: he had made sure that Shanks overheard the "plan" to assassinate GW, then sent Gamble ahead of him to lay the groundwork, with the ultimate goal to steal a bunch of secret stuff and, maybe, kill Sackett. Mission accomplished.

 

I mean, props to Ben for figuring out who the real spy was, but all the patriots looked like buffoons in this episode. I can't believe Sackett would have been so stupid as to question Gamble not only alone, but in his tent full of secret documents. This from the man who says he doesn't even trust himself? Doesn't scan.

 

Once again, carrying over from last episode, I'm a bit perplexed by Abe's dogged pursuit of Townsend, and his equally open discourse with Samuel. It does make you feel like, what did I miss? They're so chummy!

 

I continue to have this issue as well. As far as I can see, Townsend has done nothing to encourage Abe's pursuit of him, except not turn him in when he could have. It's a big leap from "I'm going to refrain from turning you in" to "I wish to risk my life spying for your side."

 

Also, the strategy of sending the french representative out with the document before the distractions intended to mislead Rogers made no sense whatsoever and it ended as disastrously as it unfortunately should have. It was just one incident after another of stupid piled on stupid. Ben and Caleb seemed less stupid than others, but that is not saying much. 

 

That made no sense to me, either. Why wouldn't you send the decoys out FIRST, in the hope that Rogers would split his men up to follow them and leave the real couriers to leave the next day? Really. Buffoons.

 

Rogers continues to do not a lot for me; his character didn't make a lot of sense to me in the first season - I mean, his Ahab-like pursuit of Ben for killing one of his men (to save his own life...in a war) was inexplicable to me. And his over-the-top screams of "you'll regret this!" or whatever to GW while he was being dragged out were ridiculous. There's only room for one sociopath with monomaniacal obsessions on this show, and his name is Simcoe.

 

And as much as I like the new Hewlett, I think it's a pretty big departure from the martinet we saw last season. 

 

Hopefully, the patriots will get their shit together and get a few wins in the next episode or two, because otherwise I am really going to start wondering if the show's loose adherence to historical fact will extend to who actually won this war.

Edited May 6, 2015 by stanleyk

[ZoqFotPik]

 

Hopefully, the patriots will get their shit together and get a few wins in the next episode or two, because otherwise I am really going to start wondering if the show's loose adherence to historical fact will extend to who actually won this war.

Well a squad of uniformed soldiers managed to slip past the Setauket Garrison and Simcoe's men, break into Hewlett's home and capture him, so they were shown to have some competence, even if Simcoe allowed them to get past his men.

 

 

Rogers continues to do not a lot for me; his character didn't make a lot of sense to me in the first season - I mean, his Ahab-like pursuit of Ben for killing one of his men (to save his own life...in a war) was inexplicable to me. And his over-the-top screams of "you'll regret this!" or whatever to GW while he was being dragged out were ridiculous. 

I didn't have a problem with him in the first season, but his plot line this season is just completely pointless. Unless, as you say, they extend their loose adherence to historical fact, the French enter the war very soon. So even if Washington didn't do some last minute switcharoo, and Rogers actually recovered the real document, nothing he does is going to stop that from happening.

[ulkis]

Aw, I like doofy Abe. Although, I only half pay attention to the show so that could be the secret to my liking him.

[OakGoblinFly]

Aw, I like doofy Abe. Although, I only half pay attention to the show so that could be the secret to my liking him.

 

 

I like Abe too (though that may be my fondness for Jamie Bell shining through) and I didn't really have an issue with him in season one (excepting the whole I'm in love with Anna tripe) ...... I don't mind the changes to the characterization of Abe (face it, showing Abe and Robert Townsend as they really were wouldn't make for pleasant television viewing) as long as they stay true to the spirit of the character (which I think they are).

 

While this wasn't my favorite of the episodes this season it was still loads better than most of season one.  I think if the powers-that-be came out of the gate like this, TURN might have received more positive press.

And poor Ben; I just wanted to give him a warm chocolate chip cookie, a cold glass of milk, a cozy blanket, and a big hug.

[Kabota]

There was a lot to like in this episode and a lot to be frustrated by, but I have to agree with this:

While this wasn't my favorite of the episodes this season it was still loads better than most of season one.  I think if the powers-that-be came out of the gate like this, TURN might have received more positive press.

I wonder if this episode was intended to be as foreshadowy as it turned out.

Washington (and many others) being so "blind" when it came to Arnold's state of mind, motivations, etc.; Andre pulling the strings; Tallmadge getting some of it right at the last minute; the man who the rebels really wanted, getting away, while they're left to hang the other.

I'm probably reaching here.

[scuttling]

Hewlett gets sweeter by the episode, though I'm still ?? re: the nudes from before. I don't think of it as totally out of sync with his season 1 character, as we'd seen him with a very narrow focus. Now he's branching out, socializing with more than just horses, and we're given time with him "off duty."

 

I'm glad this season is continuing the veer away from the truly intolerable Abe-Anna story line. It makes me like them a lot more. their individual strengths coming out, even if Abe's pretty dumb. I saw something on the AMC website, that Abe'e pursuit of Townsend had to do with the latter having an inn and it subsequently being great for their purposes.  

 

Sackett was a surprise, esp. given the history of the actual dude, which I suspect was half the point of it. I know they strive for authenticity over accuracy, and clearly entertainment, too, but while it's a good move entertainment wise to subvert history based expectations (like I don't need to worry I know that guy survives!), it is a little grating for any watching for the appeal of the story as it was. Or as close as it had been. I mean, by now said person would have to be used to disappointment, but still. 

 

Really a lot of stupidity this episode, though. Stretching belief. Not just the fail spy stuff -- how did the patriot soldiers sneak in to Woodhall? Even if Simcoe's men allowed it, what about the redcoats on duty? Should we just assume they were disposed of?

[ganesh]

I'm not pleased that Sackett was killed off. The character was an absolute delight and IRL his death was decades later.

 

Seriously? That's just stupid then. Sackett was a genius. I suppose Washington needed to be taken down a peg, but I would suggest they could have come up with something more creative. I guess the point was Ben had to get a win, but it had to have a high price. 

 

The Simcoe and Akinbode and Anna reunion was so sinister at first, and then Hewlett being all dapper to the rescue.

 

I was surprised Hewlett picked up quickly on Anna's ruse about moving into the house. Hilarious. 

 

I'm also assuming they're making Abe ridiculous because he's actually going to be a master spy. I mean, "What, you going to have me write on an egg?!" "No! We have invisible ink!"

 

He was right though, he was going to need evidence. I liked the scene where Abe was trying out excuses and talking in the others' voices. Of course, he was a total idiot from then on. 

Edited May 7, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Removed identical double-reply in post.

[LittleIggy]

Boy, they really are intent on making Washington look bad.

[ganesh]

I wouldn't say look bad. I think Washington was more focused on holding everything together so the French would want to ally with the United States. Which was really important. He's not going to micromanage. He was doing that, so maybe he got a little arrogant, or short sighted. I think it's important that this episode was set in Valley Forge because this was a huge ordeal for the Rebels to overcome. Having been dealt such a blow, Washington isn't going to make the same mistake. 

[OakGoblinFly]

Boy, they really are intent on making Washington look bad.

 

 

I don't think that at all, I think the show is trying hard to show Washington as a complex human being - I like that.  

[blackwing]

I don't know if I agree.  My takeaway is that Washington has a huge hate-on for Ben.  He doesn't trust Ben at all and thinks that he's a complete muck-up.  He's making it look personal.  He doesn't seem to like Ben so he won't believe anything he says.  Well, it cost them.

[Iboatedhere]

I don't think he doesn't like him. He promoted him to Major and made him Head Of Intelligence last season all in one go.

 

I think he's just frustrated with him. His job is to gather evidence and with Abe having issues getting it (just remaining in NY and getting no where with Townsend) Ben isn't able to do that. Ben (bless his heart) is trying to get all that he can for Washington but George isn't accepting the way Abigail is sending information and he's not interested in hearing that Lee is a traitor because there's the bigger picture to look at. Any division could be seen as weakness. I do wish he told Ben that, though. But that leads to my next point:

 

Ben is very young. He's never done anything like this before. It's basically on the job training with very high stakes if you fail. Washington cannot fail. He don't have time to write down a step by step process for Ben about how to do his job right now. Now that Sackett is gone he's really on his own. I think in Washington's eyes it's a 'shape up, learn to do your job and do it well, or find me someone who can' situation. I don't think it's personal. I think it's inexperience, stress, and a lack of communication. But if I didn't know any better I'd say Ben was in danger of joining General Scott at the front.

 

All in all its a big clusterfuck. I don't know how we even won the war lol

Edited May 8, 2015 by Iboatedhere

[ganesh]

Makes you appreciate the massive upset that winning at Yorktown was. 

 

Washington basically told Ben all of that though. To be fair, Ben was able to get credible intel to Washington via Abe's first trip about troops, ships, etc., and he was pleased about that. They needed a guy in Philly and Ben got Abe to find one too. It's just that Abe is not that good at his job. 

 

Washington shouldn't have to tell Ben that intel can't be taken as legit until a source is verified. With everyone getting their ass handed to them in this episode, I think the point is that they really got a hard lesson on *war*. This is how it is. We need to shape up. Invisible ink is great, but let's cultivate some sources. No more playing around with eggs. 

[OakGoblinFly]

I don't know if I agree.  My takeaway is that Washington has a huge hate-on for Ben.  He doesn't trust Ben at all and thinks that he's a complete muck-up.  He's making it look personal.  He doesn't seem to like Ben so he won't believe anything he says.  Well, it cost them.

 

 

Ben did forge a letter to trap General Lee and nearly jeopardized the alliance with France. I understand that Ben wanted to prove to Washington that there was a trader in the camp, he went about it the wrong way and earned Washington's distrust.  He'll have to earn it back by providing usable, verifiable intelligence (which I'm sure we'll see) .... I think Ben needed a few hard shakes to get him on the right track.

Edited May 8, 2015 by OakGoblinFly

[Kabota]

I gotta say, I think they've been doing a good job humanizing and rounding out several of the characters this season -- Washington and Tallmadge being right up there.

Again, Washington knows that the army he has is not going to win anything. He's looking at the big picture, because in a lot of ways, there is no other picture for him, besides defeat. He needs France and knows that he doesn’t have a lot of time as regards the British threat and those within his ranks. He's impatient for results, rightly so, but in this episode, his hubris causes great loss. No doubt he is struggling internally with the huge responsibilities on his shoulders, the lives at stake, and the expectations of his men, Congress and others.

Ben is like so many idealistic young people who’ve gone to war, hundreds and thousands of years ago on up to today. They believe in their cause as just and they’re determined to make a difference. Some do and some don’t, and either way it’s often at great personal physical and/or emotional expense for themselves and people they care about. Ben’s getting some hard, disillusioning lessons -- that no doubt Washington experienced during the French and Indian War — about loyalty, trust, politics (both office and global), motive and death. He’s going to have to really step up to do the job without Sackett’s guidance, and he’s going to have to toughen up a bit and decide what type of man he’s going to be — one who can take the slights, setbacks, and injustice, like Washington, or one who can’t, like Arnold.

Washington and Ben are at a point where it really is hard to imagine that they could go on working together as things stand. I'm wondering if Ben will go and assist Arnold for a while? I assume Townsend will be the key to setting this all right.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Kabota

[ganesh]

If Ben can get Abe not to be an idiot, and actually cultivate a credible source in Philly, then I think Washington will come around. 

[OakGoblinFly]

If Ben can get Abe not to be an idiot, and actually cultivate a credible source in Philly, then I think Washington will come around. 

 

 

New York, not Philadelphia . . . . Abe gets information about New York and sends it to Ben (which is why Townsend is so important).  Abigail is in Philadelphia and worked through Anna.

[Hanahope]

I got started a little late on this season and just finished episode 5 this weekend. 

 

Have to say, my first thought on seeing George Dubya say "I could have sworn I was right" made me think of another George Dubya saying something similar about a certain country he forced us to go to war against.  Almost makes me think if this show doesn't have some subtle hints that our first George Dubya wasn't any better than the one we got 2 centuries later, coz they are sure making Washington out to look like a freakin idiot.

 

So how is Andre (woo, hot-T) going to turn Shippen's lust from him to BA?

 

I like that Anna is realizing that Major Hewlett may be batting for the wrong team, but he's still a decent man and certainly better than whoever would likely replace him (someone like Simcoe, for instance).

 

So with Townsend, is he really the only person in NYC that Abe thinks could be a good spy?  He knows no one else from his prior days there?  And I guess Abe's plan was to "get caught", say Hewlett will back him up and by doing so be the "evidence" that Hewlett needs to keep Abe plugging away at his "spy mission?"  But too bad for him, Simcoe's ruse got Hewlett arrested first.  Not looking too good for Abe now.

[millennium]

Sackett was one of the best characters on the show.   Sheer lunacy to kill him off.

 

The show is starting to irritate me in the same way The Following did.   The good guys look like buffoons in one episode after another while the bad guys effortlessly get the jump on them at every turn.   It gets tiresome after awhile.   There should be more give and take.

 

I can't stand Abraham anymore.  The actor is unconvincing as a spy, a son, a husband or a lover.   I suppose I bought him as a cabbage farmer but that's as far as it goes.

 

If the Continentals truly wish to extract information from captured prisoners, they should make them watch the show streamed from the AMC website.   WORST video player online.

Edited May 31, 2015 by millennium

[ulkis]

I must disagree. Starz.com has them beat.

Edited May 31, 2015 by ulkis