S05.E04: The Sons Of The Harpy

[Avaleigh]

I think Lena's wigs have improved a lot since the first season. Emilia's wigs are fine too IMO it's just that the eyebrows are jarring. 

[Hecate7]

I don't know why they can't use highlights on the men. What a whiny thing, to be in a hit show where you're a "golden lion," and complain about having to use highlights.

 

Lena's wig reflects not one bit of light and it's all one color. Golden hair is always a range of different blondes and browns, and tends to sparkle a little. In the first episode I figured they gave her dull hair because they didn't want us to sympathize with her. But now I think it's because they just don't care.

[Avaleigh]

I don't know why they can't use highlights on the men. What a whiny thing, to be in a hit show where you're a "golden lion," and complain about having to use highlights.

 

Lena's wig reflects not one bit of light and it's all one color. Golden hair is always a range of different blondes and browns, and tends to sparkle a little. In the first episode I figured they gave her dull hair because they didn't want us to sympathize with her. But now I think it's because they just don't care.

I have to agree with this. I can give an actor a break for not wanting to sit in the chair for an insane makeup session or not wanting to wear uncomfortable contacts, but when it comes to something like hair color I feel like they get paid enough that they should be able to deal. 

Edited May 7, 2015 by Avaleigh

[BlackberryJam]

I don't know why they can't use highlights on the men. What a whiny thing, to be in a hit show where you're a "golden lion," and complain about having to use highlights.

 

Lena's wig reflects not one bit of light and it's all one color. Golden hair is always a range of different blondes and browns, and tends to sparkle a little. In the first episode I figured they gave her dull hair because they didn't want us to sympathize with her. But now I think it's because they just don't care.

 

Exactly. Her wig is totally monochrome. I have golden blonde hair and each strand is slightly different. That thing looks like synthetic that will burst into flames if it gets anywhere near a candle.

 

Natalie's wig was looking a bit janky in her bedroom scene with Tommen, but it's just hard to do mussy hair with a wig.

 

Emilia's eyebrows are an ongoing problem.

[candall]

Maybe I'm just old, but every scene seems to be shot in the dark. I'm always straining to see.

I change the Picture Setting on my tv to "high" for GoT--Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, Tint, etc.  It makes all other shows so bright my eyeballs are seared, so I have to change it back, but at least I can see what's going on in Westeros now.

[benteen]

Jeor Mormont? I'd say he qualifies.

 

I think Tywin was a competent ruler. His brutality certainly didn't keep the largest and second richest house in the seven kingdoms from getting into bed with him and his family. We know he was a good Hand. He was far from perfect of course but I don't think his flaws were with ruling. 

 

Doran seems like a positive example to me. I agree that it's too early to say for sure how he'll be on the show but so far I like that he's against Ellaria. 

 

I think Stannis is mostly positive he's just utterly impractical at times. 

 

With Jon...what can I say? His men were wrong. ;-p

 

Asha isn't a ruler but based on her speech at the kingsmoot and a few other qualities I'd say that there is potential there.

 

I pretty much agree with you on the others you named.  

 

At least Asha didn't brutalize the people she conquered at Deepwood Motte so points to her for that.

 

Jon was a bold and visionary leader and his men were absolutely foolish to kill her and dismiss the Wildling alliance.  After fighting the Wildlings for 8,000 years, I'd say trying to make peace was a good idea, especially with the threat of the Others.  But made a lot of mistakes.  Never taking into account that his men REALLY didn't like the Wildlings.  He never should have tried to pull the sympathy card with them by saying the Wildlings could starve. 

 

Jon might have been following his father's example but learned nothing from them.  Yes, Ned felt that you needed to be Lord instead of a friend but seemed to forget that Ned used to invite a servant a week to have dinner with him and his family and listen to them.  Jon stupidly decided to send all his friends away (sending Sam away was necessary) so he had no one around him when shit went south.  Also, I found myself annoyed with, what I felt, was Jon dismissing anyone mentally who didn't believe what he did.  In fairness, a LOT of characters in literature have this and it always drives me crazy.  If that makes any sense...

[fantique]

^^^^To be fair to Jon, their opinion was pretty much "we don't care if 100000 wildlings become wights, at least we're not fighting with them! EWWwwww..." He tried to spin it different ways, the sympathy card, the enemy of my enemy card... Nothing, they were just freaking out because it wasn't the way. It is really stupid when you think about it because they know nobody in the 7K outside of Stannis is going to help them and everyone is on the same page that the fucking Others exist. Two wights tried to kill the previous LC for heaven's sake, what more do they need? Don't they understand that 100000 undead bodies marching on the Wall is a Bad Idea? It shouldn't have been that hard to be like "hey, we're all going to die if we get rid of them, maybe we should fight against a common enemy instead?". 

[Nibbio]

^^^^To be fair to Jon, their opinion was pretty much "we don't care if 100000 wildlings become wights, at least we're not fighting with them! EWWwwww..." He tried to spin it different ways, the sympathy card, the enemy of my enemy card... Nothing, they were just freaking out because it wasn't the way. It is really stupid when you think about it because they know nobody in the 7K outside of Stannis is going to help them and everyone is on the same page that the fucking Others exist. Two wights tried to kill the previous LC for heaven's sake, what more do they need? Don't they understand that 100000 undead bodies marching on the Wall is a Bad Idea? It shouldn't have been that hard to be like "hey, we're all going to die if we get rid of them, maybe we should fight against a common enemy instead?". 

Indeed, well said.

[paigow]

Somebody help me understand Grayscale. Was the Dornish trader (with infected doll) immune to it? Is it transmitted by contact only? How long does it survive on a doll?  

[proserpina65]

Somebody help me understand Grayscale. Was the Dornish trader (with infected doll) immune to it? Is it transmitted by contact only? How long does it survive on a doll?  

Here's a brief description from the Game of Thrones wiki:

 

"Greyscale is a dreaded and usually fatal disease that can leave flesh stiff and dead, and the skin cracked and flaking, and stone-like to the touch. Those that manage to survive a bout with the illness will be immune from ever contracting it again, but the flesh damaged by the ravages of the disease will never heal, and they will be scarred for life."

 

Based on what comes up in A Dance with Dragons, it seems that greyscale is primarily transmitted by direct contact with someone already affected by the disease.  There's little in the books which discusses how Shireen contracted the disease, although A Clash of Kings does briefly describe her affliction, treatment and ultimate survival.. The story of the Dornish trader and the doll was created for the show, so there's no real answer to the rest of your query until/unless the show provides it later.

[Avaleigh]

My first thought when we heard the story is how is that Shireen was the only one to get greyscale if all that is required is contact. A toy in a kid's crib is likely going to be touched by servants, Selyse, Stannis, etc.  It would make more sense to me that Shireen was the only one to survive but that many others ended up dying of it on Dragonstone.

 

I vaguely remember something from the books saying that greyscale seemed to hit people living in damp climates but I'm not sure. 

[fantique]

I think it's transmitted by touch but not everyone touched will get it. It's like how when there is bad flu running around, some people still manage not to get it. Jon Connington got it when rescuing Tyrion but Tyrion himself didn't get it.

[mac123x]

I'm the same way with Brie and Brienne.

That was Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's own hair in...all seasons. They may have lightened it some, but it was all his. He actually tells the story of playing a practical joke on the showrunners and emailing them that he'd shaved his head.

I also think it's Peter Dinklage's hair because he's complained before of having to get highlights.

They hair has not been consistent for the men and, let's be real here, the wings on Emilia Clarke and Lena Headey suck, especially Emilia's.

 

Ah thanks, I didn't realize that the men weren't wearing wigs.  For any of them to complain about getting highlights seems a bit churlish, especially if they ever saw what Rory McCain had to go though for his fake scars.

 

I've always thought Dany's wig looked like a high school janitor's mop.

[paigow]

Greyscale: A hand waving way to truncate character arcs?

[benteen]

My first thought when we heard the story is how is that Shireen was the only one to get greyscale if all that is required is contact. A toy in a kid's crib is likely going to be touched by servants, Selyse, Stannis, etc.  It would make more sense to me that Shireen was the only one to survive but that many others ended up dying of it on Dragonstone.

 

I vaguely remember something from the books saying that greyscale seemed to hit people living in damp climates but I'm not sure. 

 

That's right about greyscale in the book.  Living in a place like Dragonstone is probably how she got it (and probably another thing for Stannis to blame Robert for).

 

I wonder if greyscale will replace the Pale Mare in Meereen.

[paigow]

That's right about greyscale in the book.  Living in a place like Dragonstone is probably how she got it....

Gilly was talking about Greyscale.. North of the Wall does not seem like a damp place. Is her story TV only?

[Holmbo]

I think it would still have to come from somewhere though. It's not like rheumatism. It's contagious.

[Constantinople]

I think it would still have to come from somewhere though. It's not like rheumatism. It's contagious.

 

Which is why I'm wondering why they've moved the Stone Men to Old Valryia.

 

Perhaps it's nothing more than convenience, some place along the way between Volantis and Meereen.

 

Perhaps it means something more.

[benteen]

Gilly was talking about Greyscale.. North of the Wall does not seem like a damp place. Is her story TV only?

 

I meant it's mentioned in the book that greyscale comes from living in cold, damp places and that's probably how Book Shireen got it.

[Elkins]

Gilly was talking about Greyscale.. North of the Wall does not seem like a damp place. Is her story TV only?

 

Gilly's story was show-only, but it is book canon that the wildlings are familiar with (and very afraid of) the disease. Although in the 7K Greyscale is associated with damp climates, it definitely does exist north of the wall. It also seems far more common on Essos than in Westeros.

 

The ambiguities and uncertainty surrounding the precise details of how its transmission works are definitely in keeping with the book series, IMO.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Elkins

[Maximum Taco]

I think it's transmitted by touch but not everyone touched will get it. It's like how when there is bad flu running around, some people still manage not to get it. Jon Connington got it when rescuing Tyrion but Tyrion himself didn't get it.

 

Exactly. Not everyone gets it and, in the books atleast, children are more susceptible to grey scale.

 

So there'd be a higher chance of Shireen getting it than anyone else, cause IIRC there are very few children at Dragonstone beyond Shireen

Edited May 9, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Elkins]

Exactly. Not everyone gets it and, in the books atleast, children are more susceptible to grey scale.

Making it, in fact, exactly like leprosy, which is surely its real world inspiration.

[Maximum Taco]

Making it, in fact, exactly like leprosy, which is surely its real world inspiration.

 

You think?

 

I always likened it to Gangrene. Especially with the eagerness to go to amputation as a cure.

 

I suppose the tranfer vector and the eagerness to quarantine the Stone Men does liken it to Leprosy/Hansen's Disease though.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Elkins]

Well, I think its inspiration is probably not so much actual leprosy as it is leprosy as it was viewed historically. It seems to be quite contagious, for example, which leprosy really isn't, but people used to believe that it was. And I would guess that before antibiotics, gangrene or sepsis was very likely what killed most people with leprosy. I don't know if people without a modern understanding of medicine would have considered those infections a separate condition from the disease itself. Certainly the idea of leprosy I remember having as a kid was "it makes your fingers and nose fall off!"

 

(Also, lepra means 'scaly' in Latin, which was probably what led me to the idea -- quite possibly erroneous! -- that it was Martin's real life inspiration for the Greyscale)

Edited May 9, 2015 by Elkins

[GreyBunny]

It appears if you get greyscale as a child and survive, you're permanently immune and have only some disfigurement.  If you get it as an adult, you're doomed to become a Stone Man and die a slow, painful death.

 

Leprosy was probably the primary inspiration but it also reminds me of measles to an extent.  Extremely contagious and a miserable disease but generally survivable if contracted as a child, much more deadly if contracted as an adult.

 

Also metastatic calcification/calcinosis (formation of calcium in soft tissues) and harlequin-type ichthyosis (the skin is very hard, thick, and plate-like).

Edited May 9, 2015 by GreyBunny

[John Potts]

"All sinners are equal in the eyes of the Gods!" I'm sure that won't come back to bite Cersei in the future.

Margery isn't half the player she should be - she really overplayed her hand there with Tommen

Did Mel know Jon's parentage? And if so, was she trying to make another Shadow Baby? And does Littlefinger know the real story about Rhaegar & Lyanna? He seemed to get an odd look on his face when Sansa said, "Rhaegar abducted and raped her".

Wouldn't Bronn push the dead bodies out to sea? They could even use the boat they came in!

For elite soldiers - the Unsullied did pretty poorly in a fight. They were on alert and instantly broke formation! Where they were isolated, yes the Harpies should be able to take them down, but Greyworm's group were able to form a (small) shield wall. They should have carved up the Harpies so long as they were able to cover each other.

On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2015 at 3:04 AM, Avaleigh said:

I liked the scene of Jaime fighting. I like the idea of him becoming skilled with his other hand so I'm glad to see that his training is paying off

Loved him using his golden hand to parry! And that Bronn immediately took the credit for training him up.

On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2015 at 3:06 AM, Skeeter22 said:

The Sand Snakes are terrible. I really don't understand why they killed the man who sold out Jaime.

I didn't get it either. When they want other folks to spill, are they going to say, "The last man who sold us information was so happy, he decided to take an immediate holiday in Mereen!"

On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2015 at 5:47 AM, BloatedGuppy said:

Cersei suggesting the arming of the faith militant instead of having it suggested to her is the kind of small deviation that makes very little sense to anyone. That the High Sparrow never even considered it and seems almost taken aback at the suggestion undermines his ambition and intelligence, and it presents Cersei as a student of history

The best cons are the ones where the victim believes its their idea. "Oh, you want us to take up arms and punish the unrighteous? Well, of course we can do that, Your Grace!"