Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[theredhead77]

Timely article about dysfunctional families and our role in them

I watched a lovely movie starring David Tennant (I may be on a DT kick) called What We Did on Our Holiday. Topical because it's about dysfunctional families and the impact it has on those around them.

[emma675]

HoosierJen, congrats!! 

[hoosier80]

HoosierJen, congratulations!  If anyone is truly Christian, then they wouldn't make any ugly remarks, and just be happy for a new life to be coming into this world.   She's an adult and free to live her own life.

I am so relieved to be back in my own home.  I left later than anticipated in going to Mom's  I really felt ill, which she blamed on my brother (with his whole attitude regarding Christmas).  I left here and no snow at all, but I got into some nasty travel weather about 30 miles from Mom's house.  Over an hour to go 30 miles, and I have an SUV.  Roads were snow covered, getting packed, even the interstates.  I finally saw a plow truck when I was turning the corner to get to Mom's housing addition.  Now, I saw tons of trucks out around here, doing pretreatment.  The joke is, there's just a dusting of snow here.  

I tried making holiday treats, and the first one was a failure, so I nixed everything else.  Mom was so overly emotional and was on edge - so I was hearing oh clean this, clean that  - because the "King" (my brother - the neatnik) was coming the next day.  With the bad weather, I "missed" the car ride to church (darn it).  At one point, I was like ready to blow at the do this/do that non stop crap, and Mom said, "Just be quiet.  It's no wonder........"  then she stopped herself.  Yeah, I thought so.  Deep down I think she believes I brought all of this upon myself.  Even though she admitted she thinks my brother is jealous, somehow that is my fault.   

So Christmas Day was ok.  No major blow ups, but no real conversation between my brother and me.  I kept it light as I could; we watched some funny tv shows, which we all laughed at.  He bailed late afternoon.  Today Mom got all teary again, even after I made two more meals for her - everything she wanted.  She builds up the expectations of every holiday to be what is shown as the perfect family holiday on tv, and when it's not (but was ok), then she's disappointed.  I called her to say I'd gotten back ok, and she was better, having talked to a close friend.  The friend has what sounds to be modest family gatherings, so it sort of brings Mom back down to earth.

[backformore]

17 hours ago, HoosierJen said:

My daughter -- a senior in college -- came home for her Christmas break and told me that she and her boyfriend are expecting. While it isn't the exact way she saw her life going, I'm absolutely thrilled at the idea of having another little one in the family (my first grandchild!). I'm also thrilled because my daughter has had some health issues and both she and I had our doubts that she would ever be able to get pregnant -- I'm so happy that fertility issues aren't a struggle she will have to face. She hasn't told anybody else yet and wants to wait until after the holidays, mainly because she doesn't want to make it all about her. My issue is this -- my family is incredibly conservative Christian, and I know they will have issues with the fact that she is unmarried. My fear is that they will be critical and judgmental and ignore the positives -- that this is a new life to love and that when the baby is born she will be 22 years old with a college degree fresh in hand, which I think is a pretty good start. I'm afraid of what's going to happen when she tells everyone because I feel like the first sign of negativity will cause me to cut that relative out of my life -- if you can't be happy, then stay the hell away from me. 

I think I just wanted to put that all on here because I'm not allowed to talk to anyone about it for another week or two, and I just wanted to share those thoughts with someone. Thank you, kind and anonymous internet neighbors, for listening. And since this is the only place I can say it -- I'm Gonna Be A Grandma!!!!!!!!

Practice your responses to rude, judgmental criticisms.   An advice column I read suggested responding to rude questions with "why would you ask that?" And if they persist, "It just seems like a very personal question, I can't believe you would ask!"

IF you really want to make them spin out of control, answer any negative comment as though it were positive:

Someone says : "an unmarried girl having a baby? That's not right!"   And you answer, "Yes, I'm going to be a grandma, thank you for your congratulations, I'm so excited!"  

Someone says: "In my day, an out of wedlock pregnancy was something to be ashamed of".  You reply, "Isn't it great that people no longer have to be ashamed of something that happens every generation?  We can be overjoyed at adding a new baby to the family."  

And then there's the all-purpose, "I just know she'll be a wonderful mother.  I'll pass along your congratulations!."  

You don't have to cut anyone out of your life, just make it clear that you are not going to respond to anything other than heartfelt congratulations.  Women have been having babies before marriage for as long as humans have been on earth. there was a time when pregnant teens and young women went off to the convent for a few months, gave their babies up for adoption, and came back home saying they had been in the hospital with Mononucleosis or pneumonia.   Enjoy the fact that you don't have to tell lies like that.  

And - congrats, Grandma! 

[backformore]

@hoosier80:   I can relate.  At our Christmas family gathering, my brother grilled me on how recently I had visited my dad, how many times I visit, and bragged about how he goes every week.   Then he made some other snide remarks about me, including some about how HE goes to church and I don't. 

Yeah, I have a professional job, a career that also requires some attention on my days off.  HIs job is not at all demanding. He bragged that a monkey could do it.  When he's off, he's off.  I have to maintain a website, return calls and emails, keep up with reading and continuing education requirements, on my days off. My dad has never been supportive of my education and career.  I visit him every 2 or 3 weeks, take him on errands or to appointments as needed.  Does my brother visit more often?  yes.  So what? he prides himself on being a Christian, but boy, does he act like an asshole to me!  Anything I said to him, or to anyone else, he responded with a surly attitude or a comment under his breath.  

I swear, next year at Christmas, we just might go on vacation instead of dealing with family. 

[Scatterbrained]

My MIL is a piece of work.  She takes infinite pleasure in being mean-spirited and nasty, and is exceptionally passive-aggressive.  In addition to all the usual stuff I've come to expect in my dealings with her, something weird happened.  

She "innocently" asked whether I or DH is on Facebook.  (I know she already knew the answer to this question.  I am on Facebook and DH uses my account.  He refuses to get his own account for a variety of reasons.). Then, after I told her that I have the account, she tells some convoluted story about how their phone got lost or stolen and they lost all their contacts.  An old friend sent them a message (how?) and they want to send a reply.  Since you can look people up on Facebook, they could use my account to search for the friend and send a reply message.  I told them DH could help them with that and he quickly told them, that SIL or BIL (whom MIL and FIL live with!) could help them with that (BIL and SIL both have Facebook accounts).  So, it was dropped.

 

Anybody have any ideas on why they wanted to get their hands on my Facebook account?

Edited December 27, 2017 by Scatterbrained

[theredhead77]

33 minutes ago, Scatterbrained said:

Anybody have any ideas on why they wanted to get their hands on my Facebook account?

To spy. If your account is locked down and you aren't friends with them they can't see anything. If you are friends with them and have them filtered they want to see what they can't see, or suspect they can't see.

[backformore]

Quote

Anybody have any ideas on why they wanted to get their hands on my Facebook account?

Somebody blocked them, or unfriended, or whatever it's called on FB. They're pissed and want to be able to see what the friend is up to.

Maybe they really do want to reach out and make amends. But it's more likely they want to use your account to have the last word in an argument.

Her explanation makes no sense. If an old friend reached out, they can contact the old friend the same way he/she used.

Here's another thought. Maybe she's looking up an old boyfriend, and doesn't want him to find out.  And if she looks  him up on your account she can spy without him knowing.

[BookWoman56]

2 hours ago, Scatterbrained said:

Anybody have any ideas on why they wanted to get their hands on my Facebook account?

The explanations that @theredhead77 and @backformore suggested both make sense.  It could also be some combination of wanting to see the details of what you have posted, to see if you've said anything negative about her, and to spy on someone who unfriended her. But the short answer to your question is: Not for any good reason. The story your MIL spun makes no sense whatsoever; if an old friend sent her a message, it's a no-brainer to reply to that message, however it was sent. 

In more positive news on family, my son and DIL closed on their house this ,morning, so within the next couple of weeks they will be moving out of my house and into their own place. It's not a minute too soon, either. They've been here for a year after relocating from overseas, and I was slowly being driven nuts by their frequent arguments, different cleaning habits, etc. I have discovered during that year that my DIL is a major piece of work, extremely selfish and totally lacking consideration for anyone else, and I am 99% certain that my son is staying in the marriage only because of their child. But I am resisting the impulse to meddle in their relationship and trying to be as neutral as I can. The only time I have mentioned the ongoing tension between them is when I told my son a few months ago that they needed to find their own place, because their arguments were loud and causing my blood pressure to rise to dangerous levels, etc. Now that they have done so, I am looking forward to a much quieter, less stressful home environment. 

[Quof]

My mother on the phone:   "I saw Brenda the other day.  She's looking really old."  "I got a Christmas card from the Smiths with their picture on it.  Mary was wearing a hideous dress. And she's gotten really fat."

"FFS.  When will I be seeing your photo in Vogue?"  (OK, so only thought, rather than said "FFS.")

"Huh?"

"I was just wondering when you were declared a super model who gets to pass judgment on how other people look?"

She didn't get it.

[Mindthinkr]

@Quof Bravo to you who at least recognizes that your mother focuses on the negative about people. Not because it's good to find a flaw, but because of it, you have made a change in how you view others. I've seen kids that emulate their parents and the two of them will just have a knock down session at someone else's expense.  Now I like snark mind you, but limit it to telling only the occasional friend who knows that I mean nothing ugly by it IRL or here on these boards where so many kindly put themselves out there for our fodder. I liked your Vogue comment. Next time maybe you should point blank tell her that you prefer to focus on other's good qualities. That life is much more pleasant that way. 

[HoosierJen]

Thank you, everyone, for the congratulations; I appreciate it. Went to the doctor today with daughter and her boyfriend and saw a little blob with a heartbeat, which makes things feel more official. Of course, I can already tell that the little blob is extremely cute and very advanced. 

@auntlada I don't mind questions at all. My family is . . . I guess the best term would be 'nicely judgmental'? I'm sure when they find out about daughter's pregnancy the phrase "Well, I still love you" will be thrown out quite a bit. I hate that phrase so much. It's like "In case you don't know, you're a horrible sinner, but I am a good Christian and am still willing to do my duty and love you anyway." There probably will also be a few snide comments about my parenting and my liberal ways, but I'm used to that. As for marriage, they have no plans, which was kind of a relief for me. They are planning on getting an apartment and raising the baby together, but marriage is something they aren't even thinking about. I'm good with that, though, because I don't like to see people make huge life decisions based on situations like this.

Anyway, we made it through Christmas without any of us (me, my daughter, her boyfriend, my son) slipping up and telling anyone, so now we're just waiting for her to decide when to share the news. Again, thanks to everyone for the kind words. It feels good to have someone to share with.

[DeLurker]

On 12/26/2017 at 7:13 AM, HoosierJen said:

My daughter -- a senior in college -- came home for her Christmas break and told me that she and her boyfriend are expecting. While it isn't the exact way she saw her life going, I'm absolutely thrilled at the idea of having another little one in the family (my first grandchild!). I'm also thrilled because my daughter has had some health issues and both she and I had our doubts that she would ever be able to get pregnant -- I'm so happy that fertility issues aren't a struggle she will have to face. She hasn't told anybody else yet and wants to wait until after the holidays, mainly because she doesn't want to make it all about her. My issue is this -- my family is incredibly conservative Christian, and I know they will have issues with the fact that she is unmarried. My fear is that they will be critical and judgmental and ignore the positives -- that this is a new life to love and that when the baby is born she will be 22 years old with a college degree fresh in hand, which I think is a pretty good start. I'm afraid of what's going to happen when she tells everyone because I feel like the first sign of negativity will cause me to cut that relative out of my life -- if you can't be happy, then stay the hell away from me. 

I think I just wanted to put that all on here because I'm not allowed to talk to anyone about it for another week or two, and I just wanted to share those thoughts with someone. Thank you, kind and anonymous internet neighbors, for listening. And since this is the only place I can say it -- I'm Gonna Be A Grandma!!!!!!!!

Belated congratulations! 

And probably the only reaction that matters to her is yours and you are clearly happy and supportive.  There's never a perfect time to get pregnant - if we all waited until things were orderly and tidy in our lives, the population would be a lot less.  And if she's had health concerns that made this a low probability event, all the more reason to find joy that it is happening at a time when she is probably at ultimate health!

My Grandma used to say "the first baby can come any time, the rest take 9 months" because so many babies are born "early" after the wedding.  If the extended family hasn't encountered this first hand yet, they are truly good Christians and wouldn't dream of harboring an uncharitable thought towards your daughter.  Not to be across the board snarky on those who hold religious beliefs - but I have a big peeve with those who use it to speak poorly of others.  Own up to your own pettiness and being judgemental - don't hide behind a religion to do it.

[StatisticalOutlier]

19 hours ago, HoosierJen said:

I'm sure when they find out about daughter's pregnancy the phrase "Well, I still love you" will be thrown out quite a bit.

OMG.  People would really say something like that?  What is wrong with them?

It's one thing to have opinions about what someone else is doing, but at least be kind and if whatever they're doing isn't bad enough for you to disassociate yourself from them, then don't express disapproval at all, especially if your opinion hasn't been requested.  What possible good does it do?  You could respond, "I infer from what you're saying that you don't approve of what I'm doing but you're going to overcome that and still agree, maybe grudgingly, to associate with me, which is apparently something I should be grateful enough for that I overlook your condemnation?"  To which I would add, "No thanks."  But that's just me.
 

Quote

As for marriage, they have no plans, which was kind of a relief for me. They are planning on getting an apartment and raising the baby together, but marriage is something they aren't even thinking about. I'm good with that, though, because I don't like to see people make huge life decisions based on situations like this.

 

Okay, this made me laugh. 

[Quof]

Isn't that like all the contestants, er, litigants on Judge Judy who make 2, 3, or 4 babies together and, when JJ asks why they aren't married, say "I still haven't made up my mind about him."?   

Or the woman who wrote into an advice column because she was finding birth control pills expensive, but didn't know how to ask her boyfriend to contribute to the cost because "I don't know him well enough to talk about money with him."?

[DeLurker]

Been spending the break at my Mom's in Florida.  My oldest brother and his wife were here until yesterday.  My SIL is the best - she's grown to accept out quirks over the years and is comfortable letting us see hers.  She finds appropriate reasons to quietly sing Fish Heads - you know:

Fish heads, fish heads
Roly-poly fish heads
Fish heads, fish heads
Eat them up, yum…

And she'll join in when I find reason to sing This is the Soup that never ends (instead of Song - Lambchop).

 

In other news, one of my other brother's live in girlfriend is annoying - she needs to immerse herself in everyone's business.   The concept of boundaries is not something that she is aware of.  She actually has several really good qualities, but damn!  They come as a package deal I guess.    She's virtually his ex-wife 2.0. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by DeLurker

[theredhead77]

As my mom gets older everything is a "thing". When she travels there is always a long drawn out unnecessarily dramatic story about getting there. Going out, there is always a long dramatic story, etc... It's always the same too 'drama drama drama, pause, breath, ANYWAY, drama drama drama, pause, breath, ANYWAY... repeat". I don't have the patience or desire to listen to it and will cut her off with "but you made your plane" or "but you [desired end result]", right?" Obviously if it was truly something worthy of the story I wouldn't stop her but damn, it gets old.

And apparently my dad is now the person who thinks their 'regular' cashier at the grocery store is a good friend. That makes me really sad.

Please tell me I'm not the only one here who is dealing with either of those two things.

[MargeGunderson]

48 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

As my mom gets older everything is a "thing". When she travels there is always a long drawn out unnecessarily dramatic story about getting there. Going out, there is always a long dramatic story, etc... It's always the same too 'drama drama drama, pause, breath, ANYWAY, drama drama drama, pause, breath, ANYWAY... repeat". I don't have the patience or desire to listen to it and will cut her off with "but you made your plane" or "but you [desired end result]", right?" Obviously if it was truly something worthy of the story I wouldn't stop her but damn, it gets old.

And apparently my dad is now the person who thinks their 'regular' cashier at the grocery store is a good friend. That makes me really sad.

Please tell me I'm not the only one here who is dealing with either of those two things.

Sadly, you are not. My mother has become just like my grandma in the storytelling department.  The Odyssey is a shorter and less dramatic story than my mother's last trip to Walmart.

[Mindthinkr]

@theredhead77  So many older people are isolated and don't have people to have normal conversations with. Even if they are still lucky enough to have a spouse, their days of listening with sparkles in their eyes are over. I know so many that if it wasn't for the friendly cashier at the grocery store or their hair stylist, they would have nobody to chat with. Yes, those stories can go on too long (I know someone who never gets to the point because being heard is their point) but be grateful that your parent is alive and able to converse with you at all. I miss my parents, long ago deceased, and would love to hear one of their voices. If you have one nearby may I suggest a Seniors Center? They have activities and they can go for a class or all day. There's exercise classes (Tai Chi and chair yoga are very popular here), card and board games, book discussions, they have people come in to mentor (tax people who do it pro bono) and younger people who come into be mentored seeking the advice and help of someone who made it in a business or industry. It opens up the limits of what they can talk about, helps keep their minds sharp, and gives them a social network of people who understand them. It also lessens the amount of long winded tales for you. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Mindthinkr

[KittyMom4]

On 12/30/2017 at 2:33 PM, DeLurker said:

My issue is this -- my family is incredibly conservative Christian, and I know they will have issues with the fact that she is unmarried. My fear is that they will be critical and judgmental and ignore the positives -- that this is a new life to love and that when the baby is born she will be 22 years old with a college degree fresh in hand, which I think is a pretty good start. I'm afraid of what's going to happen when she tells everyone because I feel like the first sign of negativity will cause me to cut that relative out of my life -- if you can't be happy, then stay the hell away from m

My family is similar, not so much religious as conservative-stuck-in-the-morals-of-the-victorian-era type judgmental.  My daughters were typical teenagers who caused me the normal amount of stress but nothing beyond typical teenage drama.  They are both college educated and have good jobs today (27 & 23 years old). They both like tattoos, my oldest has one and my youngest is working on a full sleeve, all of the designs are beautiful and well-crafted, nothing inappropriate, and all of them have meaning to her. My parents are horrified with every new tattoo and call me after seeing them posted on FB to lament about how she is going to hate them in the future, how she's too pretty to put ugly pictures on her arms and how can I let her do this. I just keep repeating "She's 23, an adult, it's her body, none of it should matter to you." over and over with every comment. They don't stop but I refuse to let their judgment matter to me or to my daughters. My girls love their grandparents and don't let it bother them. 

[theredhead77]

@Mindthinkr - my mom does get out, she goes to dance classes at the Senior Center, she plays bridge, she volunteers, all sorts of things. My dad doesn't do anything but watch TV and go to the store. He's never been an go-out and do things person and he was never a fan of anyone coming over when I was a kid. For as long as I can remember he never had his own friends, they were always family friends. I'm certain on top of his diagnosed anxiety there is a slew of other underlying issues.

I know they won't be around forever and I know once they are gone I won't have anyone who cares about me left.  I'm also incredibly isolated, I  spent both holiday weekends inside not talking to a single person sans the few hours I went to an acquaintances house on NYE.

[Mindthinkr]

@theredhead77 You will always have us virtual friends and I get that it's not the same thing as actual people with whom you share interests and values. Yes, you have had a tough move (if I'm remembering your backstory correctly) and now not exactly happy with where you have ended up. I really do care and will wish you the best in this new year. 

I'm glad your mother has a social life. Guess she just likes to vent..and vent. 

[BookWoman56]

It looks like my son and DIL will be finished moving the rest of their stuff out of my house into their house by tomorrow night. I have had to bite my tongue several times during this process. My son packed up most of his personal stuff and some of their child's stuff prior to moving day, and took a load of boxes to the new house every day between closing on the house and the designated moving day. My DIL waited literally until my son went and picked up the moving van to start packing any of her stuff. I was there watching this sequence of events occur and had to keep myself from yelling, "This is not how you do things. FFS, get at least some of your shit packed prior to moving day, especially when you have only one day off from work this week and have the moving van for only 12 hours."  And she nearly set me off by criticizing how much stuff they had to move and saying that my son and their child had too much stuff, and needed to get rid of some of it. Bitch, please. You are the one with so many clothes and other crap that you need an extra bedroom (not an extra bedroom closet, an entire fucking extra bedroom) to store your clothes and are already talking about buying one of those prefab sheds from Home Depot or somewhere to put the rest of your stuff.  I do have to keep telling myself that in 24 hours, they should have all of their stuff removed, and we can proceed to have a more normal relationship with separate households. I don't regret them relocating from overseas, for a variety of reasons, but the ongoing drama has been hard to handle and bad for my health, so I'm looking forward to the new year with significantly less stress from the living arrangements. 

[Mindthinkr]

Was sharing this with my brother earlier and thought I'd share it with y'all. Many many years ago we were snowed in at my grandmothers house in upstate NY. About 3' of snow fell. She asked what would we like to eat. We'd say "Aw..you probably don't have it". Bro wanted Lobster Newburgh. She went into her basement freezer and he got it. I wanted turkey. She went down again and I got it. The game went on for a few days and we ate like kings. Today both he and I are snowed in, in our respective houses. Texting we were kidding each other about what fare we were having. We were sharing such good memories of our Gram. She was the best cook ever and always had all of our favorite foods in stock. He did offer to wait 3 days for me to make him Lobster Newburgh lol. 

[PRgal]

Family is sometimes hard to deal with when they're very old school/old culture.  We are using a surrogate and donor(s) to have our child (no pregnancy yet - see Pet Peeves for my rant), but we are likely going to tell my 90-something grandmother we're adopting (and even THEN, I'm not sure how she'd react.  Because, you know #bloodlines #familytraceability.  I'm sure her attitude would be better than if my (male) cousin who is the son of an UNCLE were going through the same thing.  I'm a woman and don't carry on the family name).  My cousins know what we're doing, but they're all between 29 and 40, so they don't really care.

[DeLurker]

On 12/31/2017 at 1:06 PM, DeLurker said:

In other news, one of my other brother's live in girlfriend is annoying - she needs to immerse herself in everyone's business.   The concept of boundaries is not something that she is aware of. 

I've decided she is an invasive species.  And I am once again questioning if my brother has a mineral deficiency because he seems to be missing his spine.

[BookWoman56]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:55 PM, PRgal said:

Family is sometimes hard to deal with when they're very old school/old culture.  We are using a surrogate and donor(s) to have our child (no pregnancy yet - see Pet Peeves for my rant), but we are likely going to tell my 90-something grandmother we're adopting (and even THEN, I'm not sure how she'd react.  Because, you know #bloodlines #familytraceability.  I'm sure her attitude would be better than if my (male) cousin who is the son of an UNCLE were going through the same thing.  I'm a woman and don't carry on the family name).  My cousins know what we're doing, but they're all between 29 and 40, so they don't really care.

About 30 years ago my oldest sister made the decision, following a very nasty divorce and custody battle, to have a child on her own, with no plans to marry the father.  The relationship with the father ended either shortly before or after the birth, for reasons unrelated to the child. Most of my immediate family had no problems with this, but my grandmother insisted that she be the one to tell my grandfather about it, and what she told him is that my sister had adopted a child.  Nobody ever bothered to set the record straight with him. I think he may have eventually suspected that she'd had the child herself out of wedlock, based on a few comments he made regarding the similarity of their physical features, but he was old school enough that the idea of having a child when unmarried was shameful.  My grandparents have been dead now for several years, but at times I still laugh at  how my grandmother was able to pull the wool over my grandfather's eyes. 

In more current news, my son, DIL, and grandson are now settled in their own house, which is in the same neighborhood as mine, close enough that if I need to babysit, I can easily walk/drive to their house but not so close that they would be inclined to just pop over unexpectedly. My son has come over once to do laundry, pending the delivery of their own washer and dryer later this week, but that's not a big deal. Overall, it's just a major relief to have much less noise. One bonus is that now it's just my daughter and me, the dishwasher gets run roughly every other day instead of at least once a day.  I've done some reorganization of my kitchen and am re-purposing a couple of the rooms they had been in, and can also now proceed with ripping up the carpet in the upstairs and replacing it with either laminate or vinyl flooring, essentially something that is easier to clean up after pet accidents than having to shampoo carpet. So I am finally able to enjoy the house that I moved into back in early August, and at the same time am happy that my son and his family were able to buy a house that meets their needs. 

[backformore]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 1:55 PM, PRgal said:

Family is sometimes hard to deal with when they're very old school/old culture.  We are using a surrogate and donor(s) to have our child (no pregnancy yet - see Pet Peeves for my rant), but we are likely going to tell my 90-something grandmother we're adopting (and even THEN, I'm not sure how she'd react.  Because, you know #bloodlines #familytraceability.  I'm sure her attitude would be better than if my (male) cousin who is the son of an UNCLE were going through the same thing.  I'm a woman and don't carry on the family name).  My cousins know what we're doing, but they're all between 29 and 40, so they don't really care.

Yeah, there was a lot of confusion about my gay brother adopting kids with his partner, when everyone had been told for years that the reason he had not married was that he had never met the right girl. 

[theredhead77]

@Scatterbrained did you ever find out why your MIL wanted to use your Facebook account?

[Scatterbrained]

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

@Scatterbrained did you ever find out why your MIL wanted to use your Facebook account?

No.  They live several states away.  So, they left soon after.  It's possible that they wanted to see my FB activity because I haven't been on FB much in the past few months.  I'm FB friends with BIL (their son in law) whom they live with.  He never likes or comments on anything I've posted, but I once shared a pic of DS's first day of school on FB and they emailed it back to me to comment on it (showing me that either they use BIL's account, or BIL actually saved and sent it to them, while still not liking or commenting on it on FB).  I let DH handle the sharing of pics and info with them.

I also still go by my maiden name, so it's possible that they wanted to use my account to spy on someone undetected.  

I'll probably never know.  Honesty is not something they are known for, and they tend to think that they are much more clever than they really are.

[PRgal]

13 hours ago, backformore said:

Yeah, there was a lot of confusion about my gay brother adopting kids with his partner, when everyone had been told for years that the reason he had not married was that he had never met the right girl. 

Well, I suppose that's true.  But in his case, there's no such thing as the "right girl."  

[Zola]

I have always had a rather tempestuous relationship with my one and only elder sister.  Even when we were kids she had a knack of always getting me into trouble with my parents, friends or teachers.

I don't know why she does what she does, but you would expect a little more maturity when you reach your 20s (in her case 27). Fortunately, she still lives in South Africa, after only spending 3 or  4 years in England before deciding to head back to her homeland. Which in one respect is a good thing because she's very much out of sight:out of mind and therefore I don't have much to do with her.  The flip side means I don't know what she's up to, or who she's gossiping too, because one of her own great failing is not being very discreet, especially with regards family matters.

Some 10 years ago I announced to my parents (and my sister, who was living with us here in England at the time), that I was gay. Big shock for all of them, but my sister was soon on her MySpace account broadcasting the news to all and sundry about "my sister is a dyke!" (of course I was completely ignorant of all this for a good few months). And ever since then she's become more bitter and a little twisted and vindictive. So I was not sad to see her return to SA when she turned 20 and was finally out of my hair.

Back to the here and now, and even though she's not quite so melodramatic as she once was, she still posts any gossip about yours truly on her Facebook page. So its just as well I don't speak to her much at all, especially when it revolves around my private life. But the weakest link is my mother. Whatever I say to her in confidence always seems to find its way back to my sister.

For example a few days ago I mentioned to my mother that my partner was getting herself another tattoo, and wanted me to come along. This unnerved my mother because she thought I might end up with a tattoo of my own. Two days later I get a text from sister to say "Well, did you get a tattoo?" 

So now I really can't trust my mother with anything remotely personal. My dad still hasn't got over my orientation, so there isn't much point telling him anything. So am kind of on my own when it comes to such matters, and all because neither my sister or mother can keep a secret or offer any good advice. 

Frustrating!

[DeLurker]

Did she seriously announce your sexual orientation so bluntly?  Not that it matters because it isn't like it was her information to share to begin with...

I'm sorry that you don't feel like you have a safe outlet to confide in. 

[MargeGunderson]

@Zola, that was really shitty of your sister to do. That was not her information to share. And it sucks that you have to censor what you tell your mom for this reason. I have a garbage person for a sister and a mom who tends to overinflate any slightly negative thing, so I can relate to the frustration.

[backformore]

@Zola  My mom used to blab anything and everything told to her in confidence.  AND, she'd often embellish it with her opinion.  

My sisters and I would sometimes play with this tendency of hers.   Tell Mom something "in confidence"  that wasn't true, and wait until a sister called to report what mom said about it, then call mom back and confront her.   Mom always blamed the second sister for betraying the confidence.  It got to the point where I told her I wouldn't tell her anything that I didn't want broadcast to the whole family.   

[Zola]

13 hours ago, DeLurker said:

Did she seriously announce your sexual orientation so bluntly?  Not that it matters because it isn't like it was her information to share to begin with...

I'm sorry that you don't feel like you have a safe outlet to confide in. 

Yes, she did. But I didn't know about it for months after, until eventually she admitted posting "my sister is a dyke" on her MS page (she even showed it to me, although some of the responses were generally quite unfavourable to her). But that was something like 10 years ago, and she would have been 17 at that time and going through a bit of a rebellious streak at home (as we all did at that age, I guess)   

10 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

@Zola, that was really shitty of your sister to do. That was not her information to share. And it sucks that you have to censor what you tell your mom for this reason. I have a garbage person for a sister and a mom who tends to overinflate any slightly negative thing, so I can relate to the frustration.

Thanks. But I guess that's the problem nearly all siblings go through. My older sister liked to bully me whenever she could, even though I was always an inch or two taller despite her 3 year advantage.

I guess I could kind of expect such dumb behaviour from her, but not my mom. You only ever have one natural mom in your lifetime, but if she's not willing to look after you, then she's not much of a mom.

 

5 hours ago, backformore said:

@Zola  My mom used to blab anything and everything told to her in confidence.  AND, she'd often embellish it with her opinion.  

My sisters and I would sometimes play with this tendency of hers.   Tell Mom something "in confidence"  that wasn't true, and wait until a sister called to report what mom said about it, then call mom back and confront her.   Mom always blamed the second sister for betraying the confidence.  It got to the point where I told her I wouldn't tell her anything that I didn't want broadcast to the whole family.   

I think my mom gets a little bored of the same routine, so loves to hear a juicy bit of gossip, and will inevitably embellish it with some fake extras before passing it on to whomever cares to listen.

Trouble is, whenever she asks "And how are you, dear?" And I say "Oh, you know. Same old same old!" She will know I am being overly secretive. And that's when she starts drilling me for more clues, until eventually she manages to squeeze a little nugget of useful information out of me, and will work on that so that it will become a Thing by the time she tells my sister or whomever.

In one respect I am glad I live on my own now. I just couldn't stand living with my parents for more than a few days; and as for my sister, I would probably have to smother her with a pillow or something.

[theredhead77]

After years of telling my dad he needs to get his hearing checked he finally goes to an audiologist. I get an email back "you and your mother was right, I need hearing aids, can't hear high frequencies". So I replied back I'll wait until you get hearing aids so you can hear me say "I told you so". I'm a terrible child :D

[DeLurker]

5 hours ago, Zola said:

But that was something like 10 years ago, and she would have been 17 at that time and going through a bit of a rebellious streak at home (as we all did at that age, I guess)  

You are much more gracious about it than I would be.

[Zola]

50 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

You are much more gracious about it than I would be.

I am being extremely gracious and generous, on this board at least. Privately, and historically, we have always been at each other's throats, and I have called her all the rude names under the Sun. All rather childish and pointless of course, but in the words of Bruce Hornsby and the Range, "That's just the way it is!"

[PRgal]

I saw this video from BuzzFeed today and it DEFINITELY resonated.  I have a long story about wanting to be in PR, but my parents steered me away from it - and even made me leave an internship (which I got ON MY OWN) for a job through THEIR CONNECTIONS because they thought it was "more stable."  

 

The job through connections didn't last and really, I didn't find something that was more permanent for a YEAR.  And not REALLY in PR or marketing, either.  As for whether I've ever asked my parents what their dream careers were, nope, it's not something we do.  I DO know that they LOVED (and still love, in my dad's case) their jobs.  My mom worked in IT until I was 12 and IT wasn't even something anyone would have considered in the 50s and 60s when she was growing up.  And my dad, who is in finance, kind of fell into it! I suppose I shouldn't be complaining - it's kind of a #firstworldproblem and I sound like an over-privileged brat.

Edited January 28, 2018 by PRgal

[theredhead77]

I think it's shitty your parents made you leave an internship, @PRgal

[Hero]

Does anyone have experience  with addicts in your family? I have a relative who is now homeless because he is taking hardcore drugs. We tried to help him so much and even had rehab lined up for him, but he wouldn't go. 

He is not a good person at all. He blames us for his addiction and tells us that we are bad people who never helped him.

Now he is homeless and I feel bad. I know we did all that we could to help, but it's still in the back of my mind. 

[MargeGunderson]

1 hour ago, Hero said:

Does anyone have experience  with addicts in your family? I have a relative who is now homeless because he is taking hardcore drugs. We tried to help him so much and even had rehab lined up for him, but he wouldn't go. 

He is not a good person at all. He blames us for his addiction and tells us that we are bad people who never helped him.

Now he is homeless and I feel bad. I know we did all that we could to help, but it's still in the back of my mind. 

No experience with an addict, but I do know what it’s like to deal with a troubled family member who is not a good person and blames everyone rather than take responsibility for their own actions. It’s very frustrating and there’s a lot of guilt. You might find a upport group helpful, like Al-Anon or one specifically for families and friends of drug addicts. 

[NutMeg]

From what I understand, an addict has to decide to go to whatever treatment, it seems ineffective when mandated from someone else without the addict person consent.

When I say ineffective, I mean in the long run.

One would think someone sent to rehab without wanting to might find there a will to continue the journey of staying sober, but it seems that happens very rarely.

Seems the most effective approach would be to send a former addict to talk to him. 

[Hero]

4 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

From what I understand, an addict has to decide to go to whatever treatment, it seems ineffective when mandated from someone else without the addict person consent.

When I say ineffective, I mean in the long run.

One would think someone sent to rehab without wanting to might find there a will to continue the journey of staying sober, but it seems that happens very rarely.

Seems the most effective approach would be to send a former addict to talk to him. 

He gets very violent. I stopped communicating with him because he scares me. I'm just torn over feeling guilty/ knowing this is for his own good. He had a lot of help from family. He hasn't had to pay rent for 7+ years. We stopped helping him because he lied and stole from us. 

I know him being out of my life is best, but guilt keeps pushing through. 

[theredhead77]

2 hours ago, Hero said:

Does anyone have experience  with addicts in your family? I have a relative who is now homeless because he is taking hardcore drugs. We tried to help him so much and even had rehab lined up for him, but he wouldn't go. 

He is not a good person at all. He blames us for his addiction and tells us that we are bad people who never helped him.

Now he is homeless and I feel bad. I know we did all that we could to help, but it's still in the back of my mind. 

Highly recommend you find a Nar-Anon or Al-Anon group near you to help you process and develop the mechanisms you will need to care for yourself.

 

 

[NutMeg]

3 minutes ago, Hero said:

He gets very violent. I stopped communicating with him because he scares me. I'm just torn over feeling guilty/ knowing this is for his own good. He had a lot of help from family. He hasn't had to pay rent for 7+ years. We stopped helping him because he lied and stole from us. 

I know him being out of my life is best, but guilt keeps pushing through. 

It's ok that you stop contact with him.

Don't feel guilty, there is no reason to.

Not sure what kind of addict he is, but I'd say reaching out to some of the 12 steps programs for whatever addiction he has could help make your mind at ease of find someone who can reach out to him in a way he can relate to.

Which is what @theredhead77 recommends too.

Please step back from direct contact if he's violent. There are other ways to help from afar for the time being. 

[DeLurker]

@Hero - late to the party, but I think others have given you sound advice.  Having an addict in the family is hard on everyone, but if this is someone who gets violent and scares you, that is a different situation and a legitimate concern.  He doesn't sound like someone you would be friends with or close to if he was not a relative.  I suspect the information NA or AA would probably be helpful to many of your family.

I'm not saying write him off, but until he is willing to acknowledge he has a problem and needs to go into treatment there is nothing that you can really do to genuinely help.  Any resources he gets will probably be used to feed his addiction and that is clearly not helping him. 

Hopefully he will be open to help at some point in the future.

[Hero]

5 hours ago, DeLurker said:

@Hero - late to the party, but I think others have given you sound advice.  Having an addict in the family is hard on everyone, but if this is someone who gets violent and scares you, that is a different situation and a legitimate concern.  He doesn't sound like someone you would be friends with or close to if he was not a relative.  I suspect the information NA or AA would probably be helpful to many of your family.

I'm not saying write him off, but until he is willing to acknowledge he has a problem and needs to go into treatment there is nothing that you can really do to genuinely help.  Any resources he gets will probably be used to feed his addiction and that is clearly not helping him. 

Hopefully he will be open to help at some point in the future.

I've come to realize that he can only help himself. He is very manipulative. You are correct, anything that we gave him to help him get better, was sold to get money for drugs. What makes me angry is that he told us it was our fault that he is addicted to drugs, because we helped him too much. He told us we shouldn't have helped him. But, we didn't know he was taking drugs. We thought he was clean. He hid it very well, until he couldn't anymore. 

When we found out that he was using again, we cut him off. I stopped contact with him. He still texted me to call me terrible names. He would threaten that he would kill himself if I didn't give him money or  other stuff. The cops were called because he has threatened that before. They didn't do anything because they didn't think he was a threat to himself.

[DeLurker]

16 minutes ago, Hero said:

He still texted me to call me terrible names. He would threaten that he would kill himself if I didn't give him money or  other stuff. The cops were called because he has threatened that before.

Oh jeez...can you block his number?  He's trying to hold you hostage with threats like that - it is emotional blackmail. 

One of my favorite people in the whole world fell into drugs and alcohol to the point where he was an addict.  We had stopped spending time together by then because his life was going some place I did not want to go nor watch him go.  Truth be told, he didn't want to drag me to that place with him.  Things got much worse from that point, including a crack addiction and all the glories that go with that but that all took several years.  I'd like to say he did not pull emotional blackmail on his family, but he did.

Eventually he was busted again and had to appear before a judge.  His older brother was there and asked to speak.  He said where his younger brother was doing was killing their family, especially their parents.  He asked that the judge not release him but sentence him as it was the only hope they had he might face what his life had become and make changes.  The judge did just that.

My friend was furious beyond description at his brother, but came to recognize it was the hardest and most loving thing his brother had ever done.

This all happened before he was in his mid 20s.  He's been clean and sober now over 25 years.  He still goes to meetings.

He was making a conscious choice when he was doing drugs and drinking.  He had to make the conscious choice to NOT do those things.