Emma Swan: 1000% done with your infuriating optimism

[KingOfHearts]

I agree that it was creepy and out of place for Regina to use Emma's baby blanket, but how does that connect to Young Emma using it to keep warm?

[Shanna Marie]

8 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I agree that it was creepy and out of place for Regina to use Emma's baby blanket, but how does that connect to Young Emma using it to keep warm?

I think the original poster just meant that the image of young Emma using the blanket to keep warm was a reminder of how weird it was that Regina was the one to bring it out. It's not really connected, just a reminder of how important it was to Emma, which then was a reminder of one of the weirder moments associated with the blanket -- it triggered a cascade of memories for us, some of which are angry memories.

[Curio]

36 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I agree that it was creepy and out of place for Regina to use Emma's baby blanket, but how does that connect to Young Emma using it to keep warm?

@Shanna Marie summed it up already, but I was also noting how A&E's decision to choose Regina as the person to find Emma's blanket in the Season 5 premiere is even more distasteful than it already was because of this new piece of information. Regina is the person who is most responsible for Emma growing up the way she did. The show tries to make Snow and Charming look like the bad guys, but Regina's curse is the entire reason Emma had to be sent away. So, when we discover Emma used that blanket not only as a memento of her parents but also as a means to survive on the street, it comes with a lot of baggage and is also a physical reminder of the pain Regina tangentially put Emma through. 

Let's say there's a family who just gave birth to their first child. We'll call this child "E." Suddenly, a crazy-ex girlfriend sets fire to their home with the intention to kill them all. The family is trapped in the flames and wreckage, but when a firefighter comes by, there’s just enough room to pass a small baby through a hole in the wall. The parents have only seconds to make a decision, so they wrap the baby up in a blanket and hand her off to the firefighter with the hope that their child may live. Through all the confusion and chaos with the neighborhood catching on fire, E goes missing after she’s been rescued and winds up in the wrong hands. E ends up in the foster care system and eventually lands on the streets. But E always kept her baby blanket. It not only reminds her of her parents but it’s also a necessity to keep warm and stay alive. Many years later, after reconnecting with her long-lost parents, E lands a job working for the same crazy ex-girlfriend who was responsible for burning down her childhood home and separating her from her parents. They’ve put it all in the past, but the history still remains. Now, this baby blanket is very special to E and always stays locked away in a box along with her other childhood memories. The only person E has ever shown the baby blanket to is her mother and her boyfriend. One night, E goes missing and the police need something with E’s DNA so they can try and find her. If you’re the screenwriter finishing this story, who do you think is the most appropriate person to rummage through E's personal items in order to find this blanket?

1. The mother
2. The boyfriend
3. The crazy ex-girlfriend who has never seen the baby blanket nor knows of its whereabouts

The decision to have Regina find the blanket off screen was always tone deaf, but it’s even more tone deaf when we visually see young Emma using that blanket out on the streets to keep warm at night. It's just yet another A&E example of diminishing Emma's pain.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

The decision to have Regina find the blanket off screen was always tone deaf, but it’s even more tone deaf when we visually see young Emma using that blanket out on the streets to keep warm at night. It's just yet another A&E example of diminishing Emma's pain.

It felt like a desecration for Regina to have even touched Emma's baby blanket. Snow should have been the one to bring it. At the very least Hook, becasue we had recently seen Emma share about her childhood with him. 

And it's heartbreaking to have Emma thank Regina, Neal, and August in the two wishverse episodes for her crappy life, while also showing her trying to survive in the streets as a 7 year old. But Regina is the one who has suffered the most, and feels the most, amirite?

Edited March 8, 2017 by Rumsy4

[PixiePaws1]

Leave us not forget that Regina was hellbent on murdering minutes old baby Emma....

HANDS OFF THE BLANKET, BITCH!!!

[KingOfHearts]

12 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Leave us not forget that Regina was hellbent on murdering minutes old baby Emma....

HANDS OFF THE BLANKET, BITCH!!!

Yeah, there's no arguing with that.

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Leave us not forget that Regina was hellbent on murdering minutes old baby Emma....

HANDS OFF THE BLANKET, BITCH!!!

But isn't it wonderful how a woman can be made to grovel and beg to be friends with the woman who tried to murder her at birth strong women can put aside their differences and become friends?

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, Shanna Marie said:

But isn't it wonderful how a woman can be made to grovel and beg to be friends with the woman who tried to murder her at birth strong women can put aside their differences and become friends?

If Regina were a man, there would be so much more eyebrow raising...

[KingOfHearts]

I'm rewatching 2B right now (prayers appreciated), and Emma's attitude was completely different. She was actually really accepting of her heritage and her parents. In fact, she was taken aback when Mary Margaret suggested they move into separate houses. Her ever-present walls weren't nearly as big of an issue. It was very odd, because it was as if she had already come to the "Storybrooke is my home" conclusion of 3B. I don't think she has had a happy period ever since. (Other than the Missing Year.)

Edited March 10, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[daxx]

I think the missing year was a huge setback for her. She was more open before "Going Home".

[oncebluethrone]

I agree.  It seemed like she had accepted Storybrooke as her home at least somewhat by the end of Season 2, but the missing year made her have the "where is home" arc of 3B.

[Mathius]

Yeah, remember that she had 11 years worth of new memories, good memories, of a life where she had never given up Henry and gone to Storybrooke implanted into her in "Going Home".  I can't blame her for being more conflicted after that...she was growing more accepting before because she had nothing better to compare her experience to.  But it ended up being just a stall, since she ended up right where she was before in the S3 finale.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

3 hours ago, Mathius said:

Yeah, remember that she had 11 years worth of new memories, good memories, of a life where she had never given up Henry and gone to Storybrooke implanted into her in "Going Home".  I can't blame her for being more conflicted after that...she was growing more accepting before because she had nothing better to compare her experience to.  But it ended up being just a stall, since she ended up right where she was before in the S3 finale.

The Missing Year is a reasonable explanation, however, I don't think the writers had it in mind anywhere after 3B. The only time her New York life with Henry was mentioned afterwards was in the S5 finale, where she talked about the fountain with him. When you look at all the other characters, they've all been caught in a loop since 4A. 3B was the last arc to have any real character development for anyone that lasted. 

I've talked about Emma's "home" arc before, so I won't risk repeating myself too much. But, in my opinion, it comes down to what happened versus how the writers want us to interpret it. Oftentimes the show will provide an inherent reason for a character to behave in such a way, but another reason entirely is what actually gets presented. It was very practical for Emma to live in New York instead of Storybrooke, but according to dialogue, she only wanted to live there because she was afraid of a future with Hook and her family. It's bizarre, but TS,TW.

[KAOS Agent]

I still laugh at how the writers had Emma articulate that Henry had a normal life in New York where no one was trying to kill him and then made everyone else respond with ha ha no, that's not rational at all.  You're just scared of your feelings. As if Emma needed to live in Storybrooke or the whole family would fall apart because there's no such things as cars and trains and buses and airplanes that move people from place to place so that they can visit each other.

Edited March 11, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, KAOS Agent said:

I still laugh at how the writers had Emma articulate that Henry had a normal life in New York where no one was trying to kill him and then made everyone else respond with ha ha no, that's not rational at all.  You're just scared of your feelings. As if Emma needed to live in Storybrooke or the whole family would fall apart because there's no such things as cars and trains and buses and airplanes that move people from place to place so that they can visit each other.

Maybe they want Henry to die?

[Camera One]

5 minutes ago, orza said:

Graham was a plot device minor character who died in episode 1-7. The other characters got a plausible explanation of his death that they accepted and he stopped being relevant in the following episode. His dramatic purpose was to raise the stakes and show viewers it would not be all fluffy romance. There's no need to revisit Graham's death. That chapter was closed 5 years ago. Emma knew Graham for, what, all of two weeks. He wasn't her boyfriend or any kind of romantic partner. He just gave her a job.

Emma knew Cleo for 2 days and her death completely molded Emma's life.  2 weeks is like an eternity compared to that.  The point about the dramatic purpose of Graham in the bigger scheme of show planning is different from the in-show character reactions.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Camera One

[janett snakehole]

I find the writing for Emma in the last two episodes to be very odd. For one, she has barely any screen time. Why is that? Fazing Emma out, JMO wanting time off, putting Emma and her story on the back burner? I want to know why the main character was barely around for two episodes in a row.

In 6x12 they have Emma and Henry off on a canoeing trip as if there isn't someone in town set on killing her, but maybe he's taking time off his killing scheme, but also, maybe not?!?! *eye roll* I love to see a happy Emma, but her buoyancy and happiness juxtaposed against David's emotional meltdown and Killian obviously trying to distract her with confessions about fear of her dying sets an odd tone. Emma is not a naturally chipper happy person to begin with, so having her be so happy when pretty much everyone else is struggling around her makes her look oblivious. And thats not something I would consider to be a trait she normally holds. At least not when it concerns other's emotional welfare. We know in many instances she has been a little too overly concerned with how others are feeling.    

Then we have her one scene in 6x13. The proposal. Sigh. I found the whole scene to be uncomfortable and odd. I watched it feeling no connection to her character at all. And she's only one of two characters I still care about on this show! Let me break down my feelings on that scene.

Killian comes in and calls her name, she comes bounding down the stairs giddy. Again, love to see her happy, but it feels weird in comparison to the tone of the season and considering her grim fate has not really been avoided. There's refusing to live in fear and then there's denial. 

She then kisses Killian and comments on tasting alcohol on his breath. Somehow this doesn't set off any red flags, neither does his very obvious upset/conflicted/nervous face. Okay. Super power, what super power? 

Now we have Killian start to broach the subject of Robert's murder. She interprets that as him starting to propose. Now, if she really thinks he's about to propose, why does she jump straight to assuring him she'll say yes? Let him get it out, sister. But also, Emma, he is very obviously not trying to propose. He looks like he's about to cry or maybe throw up. No one should be that oblivious to the emotional wellbeing of their romantic partner. And then he very clearly shows confusion to there being a question. "What question?" Emma doesn't notice this either. Full steam ahead. 

Then we have the confession that she was searching through his things with no explanation. Because that's a normal and in character thing for her to do I guess. And not only did she find the ring, but she took it out of the box and kept it with her for maybe the whole day? She is now determined to get that proposal. "What do you say?" I say that it's a little f***ed up to force a proposal on someone and very obviously ruin any plans they may have had. So in character right??? Emma who is afraid of every big step, who wasn't ready to move in with him even after receiving him back from hell as a special present from the gods. Now she can't wait even a minute for her proposal. Alrighty. ((Not that I wanted her to say no or hem and haw, but come on.)) 

"Are you mad at me?" I think we just got a revisit from wish!Emma. She sounded like a little kid who was caught being naughty. But he should be upset. You're are putting him on the spot to propose before he intended to after going through his stuff for no reason. There is cause.

And then we get the proposal. "Emma, will you marry me?" And that's it. What a glorious bit of romance! And Emma is delighted. Never having noticed that Killian was confused, drunk, and on the verge of tears. 

Emma is not stupid, she is in fact pretty consistently emotionally empathetic. So what are they doing to her???? I hate the writing this season, I hate how they're writing Emma, and I hate the proposal. Even if you ignore the large murdered elephant named Robert in the room, it was the most generic quick proposal ever?? And only done because she basically forced him into it. This is what the protagonist, the hero, the princess of the story gets? I wonder is it Emma the writers hate or the fans of Emma. 

I just want to know when we can get the real Emma back. Because she aint here. 

Maybe she's in the shed. 

[Curio]

Maybe Emma is permanently shaped by her experience as Princess Emma. Kind of like how she gained a whole new set of memories by living in New York, being a girly princess has made Emma softer? Yeah, I know, it's total b.s. because she immediately snapped out of that personality when she froze Henry, but it's better than no explanation at all.

I still can't believe the writers would rather go for shock value over showing Emma's emotional reaction to finding the ring. Obviously, showing Emma finding the ring ruins the surprise moment where she interrupts Killian, but as a scriptwriter, you have to ask yourself, "What's more important? Showing Emma digging through Killian's sea chest, finding the box, debating whether or not to open the box, "accidentally" dropping the box on the ground so that it "accidentally" pops open, finding the ring, being overjoyed, taking the ring out of the box, maybe even trying the ring on, getting emotional, and slightly panicking when she hears him call her name...OR...cutting all of that just for the sake of a cheap surprise that everyone saw coming a mile away?"

[Kktjones]

Unfortunately Emma has fallen prey to the same thing the other characters are facing this season - character assassination in the name of plot. Emma is acting the way she is for one reason only - to make it look worse that Hook is keeping a secret from her. Historically, as a character she is only allowed to act happy & flirty with him when he's hiding something (3x18, 4x04, 6x05, 6x06, 6x12, 6x13). There are a few exceptions, but that's the usual MO. In all these cases they had her completely oblivious to the fact he was hiding something. The difference with the last two episodes is that they are laying it on SO thick it's over the top. The writers have gone in 100% on plot and don't care how they are ruining the characters in the process. (spoiler below about Sunday's ep based on a script tease):

Spoiler

It appears that on Sunday she'll have a convo with Snow where she's gushing about how she never thought she'd be engaged, etc. etc. It's all about setting it up so things looks worse when she learns the truth. 

Edited to add: 

Quote

I wonder is it Emma the writers hate or the fans of Emma. 

I don't think the problem can be limited to the writing of Emma, so I think it's the fans that they hate. And not just the fans of Emma. As I've stated before, this season seems to prove that they really hate all fans (of every character, ship, and relationship) and enjoy taking everything fans want and twisting it into something ugly. They are so incredibly tone-deaf that they don't see they are turning off even their most loyal viewers and killing their chances for a Season 7.  

Edited March 22, 2017 by Kktjones

[Camera One]

Quote

I still can't believe the writers would rather go for shock value over showing Emma's emotional reaction to finding the ring. Obviously, showing Emma finding the ring ruins the surprise moment where she interrupts Killian, but as a scriptwriter, you have to ask yourself, "What's more important? Showing Emma digging through Killian's sea chest, finding the box, debating whether or not to open the box, "accidentally" dropping the box on the ground so that it "accidentally" pops open, finding the ring, being overjoyed, taking the ring out of the box, maybe even trying the ring on, getting emotional, and slightly panicking when she hears him call her name...OR...cutting all of that just for the sake of a cheap surprise that everyone saw coming a mile away?"

They're choosing to show this whole engagement from Hook's POV.  They could have built an entire episode around Emma's POV of finding the ring box, maybe having her patented WALLS fly up... talking to Henry, Charming and Snow, and then, she sees Hook.  Flashbacks to some unseen moments with Cleo (I joke, really)... ooh, flashbacks showing parallels between Snow and Grendel's mother!   Maybe that's what was happening in the Alternate episode for this week and that's why all the Charmings were MIA.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Camera One

[Curio]

Or...here's a shocking idea...they could show the proposal from both point of views! *Gasp!* I know, it's not allowed on television, but one can wish.

[Camera One]

There's Gideon's story and Robin's story and Regina's story and Rumple's story... it's just showbiz.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

Emma has had less than five minutes of screentime in the last two episodes. Snow has had only two minutes. The overall Regina screentime gap from 6A is still growing in 6B and it's set to expand massively in the next episode. Regina has the Evil Queen/Outlaw Queen story all on her own. This show has zero story for Emma. They have zero story for Snow. Look at the last episode. They talked a lot about Emma, but Emma herself isn't given a role or a POV in this. Do we even know if Emma knows why Gideon is trying to kill her? What are her feelings about his motives? Does she think he's the dumbest person on the planet with his idea that killing the Saviour makes him a hero? Has she talked to Belle or the Blue Fairy or even Rumpel and offered to help Gideon? Emma has been made irrelevant because if she's involved and given a POV then all of this stuff needs to be addressed and it shows how utterly ridiculous the entire plot is. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[Rumsy4]

Even if we know that Emma's barely been on screen, that 6B screentime chart in the other thread was depressing to see. Even the little of Emma we've seen has been weirdly unsatisfactory. She seems like a pod person. She's bizarrely happy in situations that make little sense for her to be so. She casually abandoned a version of Henry that she remembers bringing up in the Wishrealm because Regina told her it was fake, but bonded with Wish!August. She is completely insensitive to Killian's pain, snoops in his belongings, and forces a proposal out of him, but knows immediately when he is lying. So, she's only not sensitive to his moods when he is in pain, and needs support? Her only plot this season is the death-prophecy, and even that is so unfocused. It's really horrible.

[Camera One]

Everything she has been given this season has been very contrived and she acts like a pod person, as you said.  Then again, so do her parents, but treating Emma this way is new.  Hook's scenes are a lot more emotionally resonant compared to hers, despite them both being subjected to the same contrived scenario, so it is very bizarre.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Camera One

[RadioGirl27]

Even with her reduced screentime, I have lost a lot of respect for Emma these last episodes, and the promo for Next week doesn't look promising. I'm not sure if that was the writers intention, but they have trully damaged Emma as a character. 

[Souris]

44 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

Even with her reduced screentime, I have lost a lot of respect for Emma these last episodes, and the promo for Next week doesn't look promising. I'm not sure if that was the writers intention, but they have trully damaged Emma as a character. 

I'm pretty sure that was EXACTLY the writers' intention.

I don't think less of Emma. I think less of the writers.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I don't think less of Emma. I think less of the writers.

But when does the writing become the character?

[Shanna Marie]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

But when does the writing become the character?

I think it's easier to separate the writing and the character when the character is so clearly a plot puppet that her actions aren't consistent episode-to-episode, sometimes even within the same scene.

So now we have Emma talking about Hook switching from rum to water and giving up sweets in one episode, then offering to make him Milk Duds mixed with popcorn in the next episode, then back to talking about switching from rum to water in the next episode. We have her using her superpower to know that he's lying when he's smiling, kissing her, and seemingly happy in one episode, but utterly oblivious in the next episode when he's radiating so much misery and angst that it doesn't take a superpower to spot it and assumes he's talking about needing courage for a proposal even though he acts confused when she mentions that she'll say yes and she has to explain that she's talking about a proposal, and then in the next episode she's somehow tuned in enough to read the entire situation from a split second glimpse at an image in a dreamcatcher (in spite of having no way of knowing who that's an image of), without even listening to his explanation of the situation. In the same conversation she scolds him about doing things on his own and leaves him on his own to figure things out. It's hard to blame the character when she changes drastically from week to week, depending on who's writing the episode, what the writer's individual interests and quirks are (I love popcorn and Milk Duds, so Emma will make that for Hook, never mind that we just had an episode in which she decides to make him give up sweets so he won't be fat when he's old!), and what plot outcome they need (we need Hook to go off on a solo adventure, so what would spur that? I know, Emma breaks their engagement).

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I think it's easier to separate the writing and the character when the character is so clearly a plot puppet that her actions aren't consistent episode-to-episode, sometimes even within the same scene.

Snow is a good example of contrivances morphing into a character's very fabric. She has consistently kissed up to Regina, neglected her daughter, and maintained a biased morality. All those things were once out of left field, but now they're what's expected from her. Lobotomized!Snow is the only Snow. She has developed habits and behaviors. As for Emma, her actions can be seen as contrived or consistent, depending on how you view the character. In my person opinion, her reaction to Hook was not OOC. I've thought of her as a hypocrite for a very long time.

[Souris]

39 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

But when does the writing become the character?

In this instance, I think it's a very deliberate tactic by the writers to try to distance fans from Emma so that fans will dislike her/forget her in preparation for Jen perhaps leaving the show. They don't want fans to miss Emma on the show. I refuse to give them the satisfaction of succeeding in that.

[tri4335]

24 minutes ago, Souris said:

In this instance, I think it's a very deliberate tactic by the writers to try to distance fans from Emma so that fans will dislike her/forget her in preparation for Jen perhaps leaving the show. They don't want fans to miss Emma on the show. I refuse to give them the satisfaction of succeeding in that.

I agree and think that A & E took a page out of the House writers book and are making Emma less likeable as they did to Cameron. Then I start to speculate what is it with JMO that this has happened to her twice.  My thoughts are that she is just too nice and does not have the instinct to push the writers/producers for what she wants for her character whereas other co-workers do and do so at her expense. But of course that is only my speculation and not really based in any insider knowledge. 

[superloislane]

4 hours ago, Souris said:

I think it's a very deliberate tactic by the writers to try to distance fans from Emma so that fans will dislike her/forget her in preparation for Jen perhaps leaving the show.

Well...they're doing an incredibly bad job doing it then.

Even when she's not on screen, other characters seem to mention her 20 times per episode so how is the audience going to forget? The big bad is supposed to be Gideon whose entire goal is killing Emma and never shuts up about it. Hook's entire story is about Emma - even when he's with other characters his entire motivation is to get back to Emma. His guilt about David's father is real but it is mostly fueled by not wanting to lose Emma. If you say they're getting ready to lose her but keep him then they're doing the worst job imaginable in separating his stories from her.

And how are they doing anything to make people dislike her? I lost respect for Hook in the last two episodes while being sympathetic to him but I've only felt sympathy for Emma.

Edited March 28, 2017 by superloislane

[Camera One]

But when does the writing become the character?

I tend to compare the character's actions from the first season and then subsequent.  If it's a huge dichotomy, I separate the writing and the character.  But I can see that most viewers will just take whatever the writer gives them and like/hate characters accordingly.

[Souris]

2 hours ago, superloislane said:

And how are they doing anything to make people dislike her? I lost respect for Hook in the last two episodes while being sympathetic to him but I've only felt sympathy for Emma.

I guess it depends on the person. I've seen it going both ways with people who are generally sympathetic to both.

There's always more than enough character assassination to go around on this show!

Edited March 29, 2017 by Souris

[KAOS Agent]

I think that there is some level of need to remove Emma's point of view from the equation in the Gideon idiocy. If Emma is shown feeling upset or worried and it's affecting her family & friends too, then it's very hard to gain sympathy for the whiny moron working to kill her. Thus Emma is given a couple of minutes each episode for contrived romantic drama and is otherwise happily canoeing with her son.

[Camera One]

As far as Emma is concerned, she may not live for long.  So wouldn't her attitude be to live-and-let-live, and to let it go?   Who cares if Hook lied, you might be dead tomorrow.  And shouldn't Emma be trying to get rid of her unfinished business to avoid Underbrooke?  In that light, I doubt David would be openly antagonistic towards Hook after the fact sinks in, and even if he can't help feeling differently about Hook after that, it would be understandable.  There's no need for them to be BFFs anyway despite Twitter demands.  

Edited March 29, 2017 by Camera One

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

As far as Emma is concerned, she may not live for long.  So wouldn't her attitude be to live-and-let-live, and to let it go?  

That's presuming her attitude is still that she is doomed to die a savior's death soon.  I somehow lost track of that over the last couple episodes.  I took her winning the fight with Gideon and subsequent canoeing and happiness at getting engaged as Emma getting go of the doom and gloom and realizing that the savior doesn't have to be doomed to die.

Frankly, until posters started saying otherwise, I thought that Belle and Rumple were the only ones to realize Gideon was still around and still a threat to Emma.

[Camera One]

28 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Frankly, until posters started saying otherwise, I thought that Belle and Rumple were the only ones to realize Gideon was still around and still a threat to Emma.

It seem liked Emma knew from her line in "Page 23":  Well, Gideon's still out there, and even though I defeated him once, we don't really know what he's up to, and I don't feel like I can focus on anything else until I've really dealt with that."

Yet she wasn't focusing on searching for him?  

They seem to imply Belle is their friend, yet this entire episode, she didn't mention to Emma or Hook that Gideon re-forged the sword and is still a risk.

It seems like no one knows about the reforged sword... "Without Gideon's sword, [The Evil Queen] can't hurt you without hurting herself."

Edited March 30, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

That's presuming her attitude is still that she is doomed to die a savior's death soon.  I somehow lost track of that over the last couple episodes.  I took her winning the fight with Gideon and subsequent canoeing and happiness at getting engaged as Emma getting go of the doom and gloom and realizing that the savior doesn't have to be doomed to die.

And did her shakes stop then? I never really got what that was all about, and they seemed to keep coming and going -- every time she learned A Valuable Lesson, it got better, but then they'd be back when they were needed for drama.

[Camera One]

Just now, Shanna Marie said:

And did her shakes stop then? 

Maybe they will start back again now because she will have doubts without Hook around, leaving her especially weak against Gideon.

[ParadoxLost]

18 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

And did her shakes stop then? I never really got what that was all about, and they seemed to keep coming and going -- every time she learned A Valuable Lesson, it got better, but then they'd be back when they were needed for drama.

During that fight scene, I decided the shaking hands were premonition.  At one point she did the shaking hand thing during the fight and then looked at her hand and threw magic (I think).  I thought that was when she overcame the "savior doomed" thing.

[Curio]

On 3/28/2017 at 11:14 AM, KingOfHearts said:

But when does the writing become the character?

At a certain point, the writing does become the character. Like with Snow, the writers have been so consistent about her not really paying much attention to Emma's emotional state that it's become part of her character. So even though Snow's drunken behavior at the bar where she completely ignored Emma the entire time seems out of character compared to the character we met in Season 1, it's in character based on the writing for the past few seasons. In Snow's case, the writing became her character.

With Emma, the writing for her is so erratic episode to episode—hell, even within the same episode—that it's hard to accept some of the writing as her character. Let's look at Emma's mental state within the past 48 hours:

• Apparently, Emma is a ditz who likes to sing if she grew up in a happy household. She sobs when she sees her parents die.
• Oh wait! Screw that version of Emma. Let's make a joke about how dark it was that her parents just died.
• Emma is desperate to get back to Storybrooke, but she's willing to ditch her son in the Wish Realm.
• The moment Emma meets her "True Love" in the Wish Realm, she literally tosses him aside and injures him, and then spends the rest of the time hanging out with the more conventionally handsome man.
• When Emma gets back to Storybrooke, she's overjoyed to see the man she tossed aside, but tells him to lay off the rum.
• The next day, she goes on a canoeing trip with Henry, even though we never knew Henry or Emma enjoyed canoeing.
• Emma is overjoyed to see Hook, but is able to detect that he's lying to her. Also, she wants him to eat junk food with her.
• The very next day, she cannot detect Hook is lying to her. Also, she questions why he hasn't switched to water.
• Oh, by the way, she went through Hook's things and found the engagement ring and took it out of the box and kept it. 
• The next day, she catches Hook trying to burn his memories and immediately recognizes a man she's never met all the way across the room.
• Emma tells Hook they need to work through their issues together, then walks away without letting him speak his mind. She also insinuates they shouldn't talk for a little while.
• Hook doesn't talk to her for a little while, so she immediately assumes the worst, even though he's doing exactly what she told him to do.
• After Hook has been gone for 12 hours, Emma gives up, doesn't try any method of trying to figure out where he was going or why, and just assumes he abandoned her. She orders Henry to put his things in the shed, which is basically the equivalent of being put in the dog house.
• Emma's patented lie detector doesn't go off when she looks at Liam's ring, nor does she mention anything about the Jolly Roger still being docked at the marina.
• Emma gives up hope on Hook and admits she needs to move on. He's only been gone 24 hours.
• Emma does a 180 when she hears Hook's voice and says she loves him literally an hour after she just admitted that she thinks he doesn't love her and needs to move on. She doesn't come to this conclusion at all on her own, she needed Hook to do all the heavy lifting. If Hook hadn't reached out to Emma, would she even have attempted to look for Hook at all?

When a character's actions and emotions are this erratic, I have no idea which Emma is the real Emma because the writers can't even seem to agree which Emma is the real Emma. At least with Snow and Regina, even though the writing can be terrible for them, they're consistent with the terrible writing.

But with Emma, it's like the writers don't even communicate about Emma's core personality. "Well I think that she should offer Hook popcorn with melted milk duds because that would be cute." "Well I think she should still pester him about switching to water." "Well I think Emma's super power should be able to detect when Hook is lying." "Well I think her emotions are clouding her judgment so her super power shouldn't work." "Well I think Emma should tell Hook that he needs to figure things out on his own and that they shouldn't speak for a while." "Well I think Emma should get upset that Hook is figuring things out on his own and should get upset when he doesn't speak to her for a while." "Well I think Emma should give up all hope on Hook and assume he's ditched her." "Well I think Emma should say 'I love you' to Hook after an entire episode where she immediately jumps to the wrong conclusion about him." 

It's as if there's this weird battle going on in the writers' room where they can't quite seem to figure out how to write Emma's character, so each writer puts their own flair on how they think she should behave without checking in with the other writers.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Curio

[Mathius]

Basically, after six years Emma is still a vaguely defined character whom the writers have no passion for whatsoever.  That's the problem here.

[Shanna Marie]

Emma is mostly a plot device. She makes decisions that they need made in order to drive the plot, but they don't really come from a "character" place.

So, they need to get to the Underworld, and then death isn't enough to make her give up on Hook. She believes they share a heart already, so she can share hers with him and bring him back to life, so she heads to the Underworld.

They need contrived angst and a girls' night out scene, and Emma gives up on Hook when he leaves town after a fight, in spite of all the evidence she has in her house of things he left behind that he would never leave if he'd planned to leave for good. It would be one thing if the Jolly Roger had been gone, but she knew he left on the Nautilus, where he would be with his brother. She went to her father after the fight to talk things out. Why wouldn't he maybe go spend some time with his brother?

[Rumsy4]

You see--when Rumple took the Darkness back, a tiny part of the Emma-imprinted Darkness escaped. When the Wish Realm was created, the Dark Emma! imprint turned into a doppelganger there. The real Emma is somewhere imprisoned in the Wish Realm. The "Emma" that spent time with August, abandoned Wish!Henry, mocked Old!Hook, and has been acting like a pod person in Storybrooke is actually the Doppelganger. Old!Hook is going to find the Real Emma, and help her get back to Storybrooke. That's the epic CS adventure A&E promised, and it all takes place in Offscreenville.  

[superloislane]

I wrote this in the episode thread but it probably works better here.

I've given it some thought and I'm not mad about the 'moving on' line. She says it like she's just agreeing with what Regina and Snow were saying “You were probably right. It’s probably what I needed … It’s probably what I need…to move on.” 3 probablys. And then the second she hears him she starts tearing up and tells him she loves him even though he can't hear her. She clearly didn't mean it - she was just in pain and when you're in pain and you have the sort of severe abandonment issues that Emma has, then you're going to act mad, emotional and closed off as she was before because that's how she protects herself.

[superloislane]

2 hours ago, Curio said:

but she's willing to ditch her son in the Wish Realm.

I honestly don't get this. What was she supposed to do - bring him with her?

[Curio]

4 minutes ago, superloislane said:

I honestly don't get this. What was she supposed to do - bring him with her?

It's a moral grey area. I don't blame Emma in the moment for ditching him because she believed Regina's lie about the Wish Realm not being real, but now that we know the Wish Realm is a real place, that means that version of Henry is still alive and conscious and missing his entire family. His grandparents died and now his only parent left him. So if Emma knew that the Wish Realm was real, then yes, she probably should have brought him to Storybrooke or at least said goodbye and given him a reason for leaving.

[Camera One]

The Wish Realm was a whole bunch of cherry-picking about what's real and what's not.  Emma not caring about Wish Henry or Wish Hook is consistent with her belief that everyone was fake and supposedly, that was the reason why she was not shaken up over Wish Parents dying.  

But the inconsistency came in when she suggested that Regina bring back Wish Robin.  Practical Emma would never suggest that, especially when Regina herself didn't expect to do that.  So to mask this out-of-character action, they avoided having Emma talk to Regina for a few episodes (must have been hard since these Writers love their SQ heart-to-hearts), especially about Wish Robin.  

To me, writing doesn't become the character.  I always compare/contrast the character's actions with my conception of the character, which is formed during Season 1 of a show.  If the character acts counter to that in subsequent season without sufficient rationale or development, then I start to analyze HOW the Writers are messing up the writing and all I begin to see are the puppet strings.  For that reason, I don't begin hating characters if I already liked them by the end of the first season.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Camera One