Emma Swan: 1000% done with your infuriating optimism

[KAOS Agent]

Eh, I think there's no chance in hell Emma would have a baby in show unless Jen gets pregnant in real life. Maybe as an epilogue, but other than that it's basically Schrödinger's pregnancy. She can be simultaneously pregnant/wanting a baby to some fans while not at all interested in more children to everyone else. Babies are annoying because you have to address them. I fault Snowing fairly often for ditching their new baby to go off on dangerous adventures (and then blaming Emma for their poor choices). Everyone on this damn show has a baby now. She doesn't need one. Pistachio, Snowflake and Baby Damien are enough. Snow, Zelena, Regina (don't know if she's interested in Pistachio anymore, but I'm assuming yes) and Belle can all have a fine time at Mommy and Me classes while Emma goes out and gets shit done.

[Shanna Marie]

Oh, I definitely don't want to see Emma pregnant or with a baby unless there's a real-life pregnancy they need to write in, or unless there's a "happily ever after" montage in an epilogue, giving us a glimpse of their futures down the line. Even if Emma does want to have a baby with Hook, she won't want to while she feels she has the responsibility of being the Savior, so until there's some resolution to that of her getting out of whatever doomed fate she has and maybe passing it on to someone else, or else getting rid of the role entirely so that everyone is responsible for themselves and helping others and there's no designated Savior, she's not going to want to get pregnant, and that means it probably won't happen until the end of the show, if at all. So the cute baby wearing a red-and-black leather onesie and shaking a hook-shaped rattle will remain a figment of fanfic.

[InsertWordHere]

6 minutes ago, orza said:

Emma as a character is all about her woman pain. 

I would say Emma as a character is all about growing past her painful life, but I see nothing that links that pain specifically to being a woman. I think we could gender swap Emma quite easily and the character would be exactly the same for the most part. Being Henry's birth mother has of course been a main characteristic of hers since the Pilot, and it would be hard to do the plot in the exact same way without her giving birth to him and giving him up for adoption, but it wouldn't be impossible. A gender swapped Emma could have been Henry's biological father who was left by his birth mother and unaware of his existence until the Pilot but determined to make his life better once the circumstances of his life with his adoptive mother were revealed. What about her suffering do you feel is specific to her being a woman?

[Curio]

I'm not too keen on the phrases "man pain" or "woman pain" in general. Pain is pain, and it seems like those phrases get tossed around and lose their meaning because Tumblr or Twitter just happened to make them popular memes.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Curio

[InsertWordHere]

6 minutes ago, Curio said:

I'm not too keen on the phrases "man pain" or "woman pain" in general. Pain is pain, and it seems like those phrases get tossed around and lose their meaning because Tumblr or Twitter just happened to make them popular memes.

I prefer "human pain" just so we can distinguish between that and "giant pain," "dwarf pain," etc. It's really important that we know exactly what type of being is feeling pain. I'm sure Ariel has only ever felt pain because she's a mermaid, not because she's a being with feelings or anything.

[mjgchick]

Happy Birthday Emma.

[InsertWordHere]

Emma's conversation with Henry really reminded me of one of my favorite quotes: "There are no happy endings. Endings are the saddest part, so just give me a happy middle and a very happy start." -Shel Silverstein

The problem is Emma really hasn't had a happy middle and she definitely didn't have a happy start. 

[Camera One]

The Writers need to give it a rest with having Emma play out the exact same scenes every single season.  The wash, rinse, repeat is getting really tiresome, and what a waste of the talent of Jennifer Morrison.

[KAOS Agent]

So here's a question I have. Because it's this show and they have serious continuity issues with characters, was Emma's stated rally the troops I have hope we'll find another way Emma playing to her parents again or was that really her thoughts on the issue? The scene where she tells Aladdin that she wishes she'd never become the Saviour seems to say it's the former, but then I started thinking about how this show turns characters on a dime to fit the plot and wondered if the Emma/Aladdin scene was simply to aid in making Emma's reaction at the end more understandable to an audience that they believe needs to be spoon fed everything. Emma's actual thoughts fitting into Hook's more pragmatic view and simply telling her parents what they want to hear makes more sense to me, but you never know with this show.

[Camera One]

Based on the way the dialogue read, she seemed to be telling Aladdin she ran because she was afraid and sometimes she wished she never became the Savior, but she knew it was wrong.  Her final line regarding all that was: "[I will now do] what I did all the times I ran... I came back, faced the people I disappointed, and tried to find a way to make up for my mistakes."  I really hated that line.  So to me, Emma (and the Writers) were saying it was a mistake to think like that, but she always eventually realizes it and rallies, and Aladdin should do the same.

Which once again paints the situation in black and white, resulting in another repeat emotional journey for Emma.

Was Hook being pragmatic when he declared Henry made him see "the error of his ways" and he dropped the Shears to the bottom of the ocean?  The trite lesson that everyone had to learn this episode was to just hope for the best because.  

[KAOS Agent]

Except Emma's response was that she would have done the same in keeping the shears. I thought Hook's acknowledgement that Henry made him see he was wrong was only in that he didn't do as Emma asked him to do and was lying about it. I'm not entirely sure Hook was totally cool with dumping the shears, but went along with it because it was Emma's decision and he did as she wished. It also didn't seem like Emma was happy about losing them again either which makes the whole thing questionable in my eyes. 

I'm still very angry about how apparently Emma running away from dying and only coming back because she needs to be the Saviour makes this story look. Emma is a human whose worth is much more than simply as some fated Saviour. Why is it wrong to not want to die simply because some stupid title was foisted on her before she was even born? It's like Hook & Emma are the only people who get this and the narrative says they are wrong. This show is so fucked up. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

Quote

Except Emma's response was that she would have done the same in keeping the shears.

I took that to mean that Emma would have been tempted to do the same if she were Hook.  Or she could not trust herself to let go of the shears, and that's why she got Hook to dispose of them, because it was the right thing to do.  They're trying to make this a complex decision and thus Emma is conflicted about it, because she naturally doesn't want to die.  But still, the message is it needed to be done even though she was too weak to do it herself and Hook acknowledged that now he has seen "the errors of his ways".  If that was not the intention, why would it be phrased that way.  This is consistent with the philosophy of this show.  "Heroes" choose the "hard" path even though it makes no sense and leads to even more problems.  

Edited November 4, 2016 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

The thing is, Emma has never really been okay being the Savior. She accepts that this is who she is, but being the Savior has done her life no favors. So the whole shears business, when she said they could find a 3rd way and they should get rid of the shears was just ridiculous, especially when her parents support her decision. It's like she's about to commit suicide and they're giving her the rope to hang herself.

I also have a serious problem with the way Henry perceives Emma and his dialogue when he was tearing into Hook for holding on to the thing that could potentially save Emma.

In the end, all that episode proved is how much everyone has tied Emma to this identity that was forced on her.

[Shanna Marie]

On 11/4/2016 at 11:34 AM, YaddaYadda said:

The thing is, Emma has never really been okay being the Savior. She accepts that this is who she is, but being the Savior has done her life no favors. So the whole shears business, when she said they could find a 3rd way and they should get rid of the shears was just ridiculous, especially when her parents support her decision. It's like she's about to commit suicide and they're giving her the rope to hang herself.

And has come up in some of the episode threads, it's not as though Emma being Savior has really made that much of a difference. She got time moving again when she came to town, but was that because she was Savior or because her DNA was built into the curse? Or is she Savior because her DNA was built into the curse? The way they talked about it in season one, that's what being Savior was about, but it's changed to a general-purpose thing since then, so maybe it's not connected. Then she broke the memory spell with the TLK, but since Regina was able to do that, as well, that might not have anything to do with being Savior. Otherwise, a lot of it depends on whether her magic is connected to her Savior status. That did help save the day at the end of season 2, but Regina alone could have done that. She just would have died. Since then, it wasn't her magic or her Savioring that helped in 3A (other than lighting the candle in the shadow trap). It was her leadership and her empathy with the Lost Boys. In 3B, it was Regina who defeated Zelena with light magic (without being the Savior). Emma's magic was only a factor when it came to getting back from the time travel. In 4A, Emma's magic just made her a target, and Anna and Belle saved the day. In 4B, she didn't really do much of anything until the very end, and it didn't seem like her being Savior had anything to do with her holding out against the Darkness. Hook saved the day in that arc. In 5B, Emma's Savior status didn't have anything to do with the outcome. It was just her Emma-ness that inspired Hook to overcome the Darkness. It was Hook and Zelena who defeated Hades, with Emma just passing on the message from Hook.

So, if Emma snipped off her Savior destiny, it wouldn't really affect much of anything. She'd just stop having everyone expecting her to drop everything and deal with every little crisis, only to have someone else get the big save. She'd still contribute a lot, just from having common sense and leadership ability. Even more if her magic comes from another source. Why is this even a dilemma?

[Camera One]

Quote

She'd still contribute a lot, just from having common sense and leadership ability.

I'm sure she'll still be a martyr.  Her family loves dressing themselves up to be sacrificial lambs.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

The whole Shears of Destiny thing was never a thing for Emma. They used it for a prop to drive a bit of short lived angst for Captain Swan and Henry/Hook, but I think they were introduced for Rumpel and it was only because they have nothing for Emma to do that she was ever involved with the shears. One of the problems this season has is that they haven't involved Emma in any real way and I think that's a mistake. She has had no role in anything other than the Cinderella story. She did nothing in 6.02, 6.04, 6.05 or 6.06. The Evil Queen talked about taking her off the board in 6.03 and that's what this show has done. Who cares if she's not the Saviour? Who cares if she doesn't have magic? She hasn't been allowed to do anything this season anyway.

[Camera One]

It feels like nobody's doing much of anything, so Emma isn't an exception.  Emma's "arc" is the ultra-boring death premonition and coming to terms with dying because she's the Ambiguously Defined Savior.  So they allotted her time to "deal" with it.  And now she doesn't need therapy anymore, of course, and the show doesn't need The Cricket anymore either.  Goodbye.

[superloislane]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

That did help save the day at the end of season 2, but Regina alone could have done that.

To take my mind off other terrible events happening right now...this isn't true. The whole point of Regina staying behind was that she couldn't stop the diamond. All she was doing was holding it back so everyone else could take the bean and leave to another world. That's why when they found out the bean was gone, they all thought they were going to die until Emma realised she could stop it.

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

In 3B, it was Regina who defeated Zelena with light magic

You know I've always taken an annoyance with this. If you credit Regina with doing this then you have to credit Emma with defeating Cora at the end of 2a since they were pretty much the exact same situations. Emma/Regina blasted back Cora/Zelena with white magic temporarily stopping their plans but their plans go ahead anyway (Cora got to Storybrooke/Zelena's time travel spell worked) and then they were both 'killed' by someone else after this (although Zelena came back so technically Cora is the only one who actually got defeated)

[Shanna Marie]

8 hours ago, superloislane said:

Emma/Regina blasted back Cora/Zelena with white magic temporarily stopping their plans but their plans go ahead anyway (Cora got to Storybrooke/Zelena's time travel spell worked)

But Zelena was rendered unable to use her time travel spell the way she planned, to rewrite her own history, keeping both Regina and Snow from ever being born, which would have had a huge ripple effect. Emma stopped Cora in a skirmish, but Cora's plan was able to play out (she got to Storybrooke and caused a lot more damage before she was killed). Regina won a big battle that stopped a catastrophic outcome.

But a lot of it all depends on what, exactly, being the Savior means. Is that the source of Emma's magic, or does she have magic because she's a True Love baby who was destined to be a hero and had darkness magically removed from her? Or did it have something to do with the bringing back magic potion being based on her DNA? Or is she a Savior because of all of that? What makes someone a Savior? What does being a Savior entail? And what does the Savior doomed destiny really mean? Is it that Saviors put themselves on the line to save others, which means they're more at risk and likely to die young, or is there something about being a Savior that lowers life expectancy? Emma would probably be at higher risk regardless of what title she held, since she's a "rush into burning buildings" kind of person, but Aladdin seems to be content hanging out and breaking into cars. We haven't seen him stepping up to contribute to any of the Storybrooke crises (yeah, that's because he only recently popped into existence, but since it's text that he's been here all along, that is now a truth within the story). The shakes are common to Emma and Aladdin, and he doesn't seem to have had them after using the shears, so is it that the human body can't cope with the power involved with being a Savior, and that's what limits the lifespan? If that's the case, then it seems silly to cling to being a Savior because the shakes seem to make it harder to be effective and if it means early death, it's not like they'll be helping anyone then. Better to stop while you're ahead and still be able to do some good, even if it's in a different way. Maybe it should be a hot potato thing -- use the Savior power while you can, then toss it to the next person. (Assuming it's like the Slayer, and there's only one, with the new one activated at the last one's death.) If Emma's shaking too much to use magic and freezing in the middle of every crisis because of the shakes, then what good is it doing her or anyone else to still be the Savior? At least as a non-Savior, if that stops the shakes, she could still use a sword or a gun in a fight instead of just standing there with her hands shaking, and there are other people around who have magic power or other abilities that have been used to deal with most of the issues they've faced.

[Rumsy4]

The huge pivotal and climactic victories haven't really been Emma's over the course of the Show. Whatever made her unique has become so hackneyed and shared by other charatcers in the Show, that the "savior" title seems meaningless. She is one of the heroes, to be sure, but the writers haven't shown anything that proves her an indispensable part of the charatcers' Happy Ending beyond  breaking the initial Dark Curse.  

[superloislane]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

But Zelena was rendered unable to use her time travel spell the way she planned, to rewrite her own history, keeping both Regina and Snow from ever being born, which would have had a huge ripple effect. Emma stopped Cora in a skirmish, but Cora's plan was able to play out (she got to Storybrooke and caused a lot more damage before she was killed). Regina won a big battle that stopped a catastrophic outcome.

This probably isn't the thread to talk about it I don't know (I'm new in these parts!) but while Zelena didn't go back to the time she wanted she still went back to before the curse was cast which was exactly what she wanted to change and she could have easily done something to make sure she was chosen to cast the curse like killing Regina or something which would have huge ripple effects. She just, for some reason, decided that pretending to be Marian was a better plan to ruin Regina's life?? So her plan was still able to play out and still had the catastrophic outcome of killing Marian (again) and raping Robin. Cora's plan led to Snow's nanny dying and that's about it.

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, superloislane said:

This probably isn't the thread to talk about it I don't know (I'm new in these parts!) but while Zelena didn't go back to the time she wanted she still went back to before the curse was cast which was exactly what she wanted to change and she could have easily done something to make sure she was chosen to cast the curse like killing Regina or something which would have huge ripple effects.

The potential for ripple effects would have been bigger if Zelena had been driving the time portal. What Zelena wanted to change was having the life Regina had, so she would have either killed Eva or got her out of the picture entirely so that Leopold would have married the pregnant Cora, unaware that she was pregnant, so that Zelena would have been raised as his daughter. She'd have grown up as a princess rather than abandoned. Who knows, if she'd had that, she might not have cared who Rumple chose to cast the curse. But that would have meant Regina didn't exist and that Snow didn't exist, which would have meant Emma and Henry never existed. Rumple might have found an excuse to con Zelena into casting the curse, but it would have been for a different reason and with different effects and consequences. The entire world of the story would have changed. Any change Zelena could have made at the point the time portal did end up taking her to would have been a lot smaller, since Regina was already born and Rumple had already decided that Zelena wouldn't be casting the curse. She didn't make any change in the timeline, since Marian was dead either way. Originally, Regina killed her, and this time Zelena killed her.

At any rate, Emma's effect as Savior on the big picture has been so small that it seems weird for her to be willing to sacrifice herself on the grounds that being a Savior is so important, especially when she doesn't know anything about what her Saviorness actually entails. She doesn't know if that's the sole source of her magical power. She doesn't know if she's done anything as Savior that she couldn't have done otherwise. We don't even know that she broke the curse because she was a general-purpose Savior or if that was a more specific thing because her DNA was woven into the curse so that she could break it. If I were her, instead of throwing away the shears, I'd be a lot more interested in learning what the Savior thing is all about before I made any decisions. If the writers wanted this to be a real dilemma, they shouldn't have sidelined her, often literally freezing her, and letting other people step up to save the day at the climactic conclusion to almost every plot arc. What they've shown us is that it's a team effort, that lots of people can contribute to save the day. What they're telling us now is that it's all on Emma and it would be a terrible thing for the fate of the world if she weren't the Savior.

[Altair Aquila]

As an Emma fan, I enjoyed doing this. Thought I'd post the link in case anyone else would like to answer the questions about her. 

Emma Swan

This is the Tumblr post from which it comes:

http://lillpon.tumblr.com/post/153040250164/the-great-emma-swan-debate

[KingOfHearts]

It's amazing to me how two-dimensional Emma has become after all her development in S5. Currently, her one trait is worrying about her impending death. She doesn't get to think or feel anything else. Of all the seasons, I think S5 deserved the most aftermath. It's understandable for Emma to be stressed out, but it shouldn't be for a single reason. That puts her complexity in a tiny box. We should be seeing her adapting to the domestic life with Hook she fought so hard for. Her therapy sessions with Archie should be about her Dark One PTSD or how worn out she is being the Savior all the time. This random death prophecy shoehorns in an element that does not need to exist to create drama. Emma has plenty to deal with that compliments the continuity much better. Watching her mumble about death and looking anxious is just boring.

[Kktjones]

Quote

55 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Currently, her one trait is worrying about her impending death. She doesn't get to think or feel anything else.

 

I totally agree! In pre-season interviews (and even at NYCC in October), Jen mentioned that Emma would be exploring her PTSD, everything she's been through and the stress of being a savior. We haven't seen any of that! Is Archie gone for good, or is there a chance we'll still get to see her talking about these things? 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Kktjones

[Camera One]

I wouldn't hold my breath.  I'm guessing Archie's therapy sessions were already considered a deep exploration of how being the Savior affects Emma.  And A&E will no doubt say that they would be really disappointed if we didn't see Archie again.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

31 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

I totally agree! In pre-season interviews (and even at NYCC in October), Jen mentioned that Emma would be exploring her PTSD, everything she's been through and the stress of being a savior. We haven't seen any of that! Is Archie gone for good, or is there a chance we'll still get to see her talking about these things? 

I think Archie is done, and what Jen said is probably what the writers told her they were doing with her character. Same as they did in season 5 with the Dark Swan arc where I was expecting something and got something else.

Exploring the ramifications of having been the Dark One or being the Savior is boring, same as getting something from Hook about the way he feels about having been the Dark One, dying and being brought back.

Who needs that when you can have hand tremors and Evil Queens chewing scenery. 

[Camera One]

Did her hand tremor in "I'll Be Your Mirror"?  I don't quite recall.  Or is she over it now?

[KAOS Agent]

No hand tremors. I don't think it mattered in the latest episode because she didn't need the jazz hands. It only comes up when plot requires it.

[Curio]

Coming into this season, I was so excited to finally learn about Savior Mythology and how Emma might have come from a lineage of Saviors. The Savior Mythology was the only thing keeping my attention over the summer amongst all the news about Evil Queens and Land of Untold Stories. I was ready for an actual explanation as to why Emma is special and was chosen to be this person. If being the product of True Love is all it takes, there would be a lot more Saviors running around. Instead...nothing. Aladdin being a Savior only makes things more confusing. Why him? Was he born with magic? Why haven't Emma and Aladdin had an in-depth conversation about the stress of being a Savior and the side effects it causes? Is being an orphan a prerequisite to being a Savior? Is being thief a prerequisite? Can there only be one Savior title at a time? But based on the timeline, it seems like Emma and Aladdin would have been Saviors at the same time...just in different realms. Are there other Saviors out there we don't know about? Why can't all the Saviors come together and form a super hero group? All we've gotten so far is a conversation about how Emma crashed her car into a sign as she encouraged Aladdin not to run away.

I'll never understand TS;TW. They went into this season saying they wouldn't explore Savior mythology as deeply as Dark One mythology, but I didn't think it would all be brushed under the rug with just a hand tremor to string the story along. Why do we need to see the Evil Queen chew the scenery every single episode (even though we've seen those kinds of scenes dozens of times over the course of the series) but Emma is stuck worrying about a death vision, even though we all know that will never happen?

Edited November 16, 2016 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

9 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

No hand tremors. I don't think it mattered in the latest episode because she didn't need the jazz hands. It only comes up when plot requires it.

Although she's the one who poofed Henry to the loft before she just stood there while Regina and EQ did all the talking.

I'm holding on by a thread this season, an it's not that the episodes have been bad, or anything like that. Again, it's nothing like what Jen (to no fault of hers) or the writers (entirely their fault) have said. 

6x05 gets no follow through, but we get Snow saying how she'll always fight for Emma, which I have yet to see. That hasn't happened since 2A. There's no follow through from 6x07. How does she go from "I'm ready to fight" after her talk with Hook to being completely defeatist? 

There's no thread between the episodes. 

I miss season 5. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Shanna Marie]

7 hours ago, Curio said:

Can there only be one Savior title at a time? But based on the timeline, it seems like Emma and Aladdin would have been Saviors at the same time...just in different realms.

I don't think so. Aladdin has supposedly been in Storybrooke all along. He escaped to the Enchanted Forest after he used the shears to remove his Savior status and got caught up in the curse. So he was no longer a Savior at the time Emma was born.

Unless you consider that theory that he didn't really use the shears, given that they were able to find him by tracking his Savior magic, though I'm afraid that's going to turn out to be a writing plot hole rather than a plot point, given that no character has thought of that so far.

[Curio]

2 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I don't think so. Aladdin has supposedly been in Storybrooke all along. He escaped to the Enchanted Forest after he used the shears to remove his Savior status and got caught up in the curse. So he was no longer a Savior at the time Emma was born.

 

I must have dozed off when they were explaining that timeline. So what happened when Emma traveled back in time? Did the Savior World lose its balance when Emma and Aladdin were both Savior-ing at the same time? Why didn't Aladdin want to help Emma in Storybrooke earlier? The entire town knows Emma is the Savior, so why didn't Aladdin feel the need to reach out and help Emma or warn her about the cost of being a Savior? He kind of comes off as a jerk for letting Emma take on the Savior role without ever trying to help her in Storybrooke for all these seasons that he just happened to be bumming around the dark shadows. When a new villain came to town every season, did Aladdin hide in the corner and say, "Thank goodness I'm not the Savior anymore! I'll let Emma risk her life instead. Oh look, shiny object I can steal!" Damn it, this show is really making me hate Aladdin...

I'm still confused about why Jasmine needs Aladdin's help and not Emma's help. If all Jasmine needs is the Savior, then Emma is her gal.

[Shanna Marie]

22 minutes ago, Curio said:

Why didn't Aladdin want to help Emma in Storybrooke earlier? The entire town knows Emma is the Savior, so why didn't Aladdin feel the need to reach out and help Emma or warn her about the cost of being a Savior? He kind of comes off as a jerk for letting Emma take on the Savior role without ever trying to help her in Storybrooke for all these seasons that he just happened to be bumming around the dark shadows. When a new villain came to town every season, did Aladdin hide in the corner and say, "Thank goodness I'm not the Savior anymore! I'll let Emma risk her life instead. Oh look, shiny object I can steal!" Damn it, this show is really making me hate Aladdin...

Yep, that seems to be what they're saying was going on. He's been there all along, able to steal stuff because the sheriffs were too busy saving the town/world (he actually said that), but not contributing in any way.

It does make you wonder what the qualifications for Savior are. He wasn't much of one, with or without whatever it is that makes someone a Savior, if that's his basic personality.

And, yeah, why is Jasmine fixated on getting Aladdin's help when Emma's right there and still a Savior? Then again, that does make Jasmine one of a few people who isn't demanding that Emma save the day for them and who isn't acting like it would be the end of the world if Emma decided to quit being the Savior and instead just wanted to be a hero so she wouldn't be doomed.

[Camera One]

7 hours ago, Curio said:

Damn it, this show is really making me hate Aladdin...

LOL, you're not supposed be thinking about that!  You're supposed to be charmed by the lovable good-looking thief!  

[YaddaYadda]

Just now, Camera One said:

You're supposed to be charmed by the lovable good-looking thief!

Both he and Jasmine grate. I wanted to throw money at my TV by the end of 6x05 so that Jasmine would STFU. Emma is scared about her fate and dying, Jasmine makes it all about herself. 

[Mari]

Which is distressing, because I truly like Jasmine's actress.

[Shanna Marie]

3 hours ago, Mari said:

Which is distressing, because I truly like Jasmine's actress.

I just pretend that she's really Princess Isabella, and all those speeches are meant to be satire of shows like this, not to be taken seriously. We're supposed to be laughing at these speeches. Jasmine's speeches are almost identical to Isabella's, anyway.

But, yeah, why isn't she talking to the actual Savior instead of beating the dead horse of the guy who is supposedly no longer the Savior?

[Camera One]

Frankly, I don't think the Writers have worked out the specifics of what a Savior is/does, etc.  They've never had Emma say that she could be of help in Agrabah, even though she had a whole conversation inspiring Aladdin to face his destiny.  

Though looking at the dialogue again...

Quote

EMMA: I hit the sign right after Henry tried to convince me that I was Storybrooke's Savior.

Maybe the assumption is Aladdin was Agrabah's "Savior" (like Emma is Storybrooke's Savior), so only he can save it?  Maybe they plan to parallel Emma and Aladdin by having Aladdin be the key to breaking the Curse that made Agrabah "disappear".  At least that would make the concept of Savior a little more defined and the link to Emma a bit more believable.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

The Saviour mythology is a half baked idea to give the illusion that Emma has a storyline this season. She does not. Eventually, she'll actually have the fight with the hooded figure (probably in the winter finale) and then what? She dies, she "dies", or she wins and things are fine. Boy that was worthwhile. Meanwhile, what is Emma doing? She helped Ashley. That's it. Otherwise, she's been off somewhere else while everything is going on. Belle is nearly killed. Emma is wandering the woods. Snowing find and lose the Sapling of Pointlessness. Emma is sent off to pack up boxes. Hook & Henry are kidnapped. Emma is giving Aladdin a pep talk. I'm shocked she's even gotten the screentime she has because she's not allowed to do anything. Even her personal life has been abandoned as a story.

It's pretty obvious that they've created the shakes and shoved Emma off to the side to give a reason for why she hasn't used her magic to trap the Evil Queen, but then they have her magic actually work quite well at other times, so this reason doesn't hold up and adds to the frustration with the season. Why isn't she doing anything about investigating the Saviour destiny? If she's committed to remaining the Saviour, has she done anything to help those refugees from the Land of Untold Stories find their happy endings? Why can't this show at least pretend that they care about these people that they spent an entire finale on and then basically quit dealing with a few episodes in? If they want to sideline Emma from the main drama, can't they have her helping these people offscreen? Throw a mention that she's doing that and there's a good explanation for Emma's absence. Give her a c-plot of helping Hester Prynne finding a happy ending or something. It would make a hell of a lot more sense than having her pack boxes while Snowing go on a mission to find a baby tree.

[Camera One]

Or better yet, have her go with Snowing instead of Regina.  The magic sapling was the only actual adventure that Snowing had all season too, so it's not like they're constantly doing something or not pushed to the side as well.  Yes, they've sucked, but the writers are also giving Emma conversations in these side plots, so it's not like they have her standing on the side like Robin Hood.

[daxx]

I'm more concerned about Emma's relationships and her feelings so having conversations with her family and friends is good. I just wish she'd talk with Snow. We have had enough plot for Emma last couple seasons. I wish she had more conversations with her family though.

A whole episode of Regina off snarking with Gold, EQ and her sister while Emma and her family decorate the house and have conversations in different character combinations would be brilliant.

[YaddaYadda]

This season will be Emma back to basics, driving in her yellow bug and returning happy endings. ~ A&E

'nuff said.

[Mari]

"There's just so many people that it's like, it's sometimes hard to do that story and sacrifice Regina's story. That's just showbiz." —Edward Kitsis

[Souris]

Can you imagine how Jen felt having to act Emma groveling to Regina? Jen really seems to love Emma and her strength. No wonder Jen didn't bother to tweet about the finale. Not that she has shown much love for the show this season -- can't say I blame her a bit.

[RadioGirl27]

There was an interview with her the other day and when they asked her about the finale, she just mentioned that Robin Hood was back, just that. I think it's pretty obvious she wasn't happy with the episode.

[Curio]

I think you can kind of tell which plots Jen gets excited about and which ones she professionally slugs through because it's written on the page. She's mentioned that one of her favorite episodes to shoot was the Season 3 finale. She's said the scene where Emma has to run Dark Hook through with Excalibur was difficult but also one of her favorites because it was rewarding as an actress. The way she gets impassioned about Emma and can talk for a good two minutes straight shows how committed she is to the character, so the fact that she barely had anything to say about the winter finale is telling. She does seem busy dealing with her Sun Dogs movie, so it could just be that, but I get the general feeling Jen isn't very enthused about Emma's arc this season.

[Souris]

IMO Jen seems really over Once. She's playing out the string because she's a professional but it's no longer fulfilling or exciting for her. She hasn't shown any excitement for the show at all this season -- which, given what Emma has had to play and the sidelining of CaptainSwan (which Jen has always seemed to really love), is perfectly understandable. TBH, nobody seems excited about the show anymore except Karen David.

[KingOfHearts]

No one but Lana gets anything to do, really. All Jen has had to work with is Emma's mopefest. Princess Emma was about as deep as a kiddie pool, so that wasn't exactly flexing her acting muscles.

Edited December 6, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

Jen even skipped the table interviews at Comic Con this year. She's ready to move on, although I think she'll stick it out to the end out of loyalty to the cast and crew. You do have to wonder what Jen thought of the wish-verse. She really loves Emma and I'd bet she felt like a lot of Emma stans (and even a lot of non-Emma stans) felt about Princess Emma. That the messaging was horrible. That being loved and happy makes you weak. That you should thank your abuser for making you strong. That the only reason Emma is awesome is because she is the Saviour. It is very clear that the writers put no thought into how the characterization of Emma in the AU completely contradicted their messages of female empowerment and how love makes you strong. And yes, now Adam is backpedaling as fast as he can because he never realized that by writing an episode entirely for Regina's benefit, he was throwing everything they say this show stood for under the bus.