Emma Swan: 1000% done with your infuriating optimism

[KAOS Agent]

I rewatched the scene between Emma & Snow where they talk about returning to New York City and it still bothers me on so many levels because it really demonstrates the problems that I have with the Snow/Emma relationship and how the show portrayed Emma's need to go back to NYC in 3B.

 

Emma: Our life in New York was really good.

Snow: I'm sure it was, but it wasn't home.

Emma: It was to us.

Snow: That's because you forgot about us.

 

Here's the thing. Prior to this part of the conversation, Emma expressly says that she's acting differently because she'd forgotten what it was like in Storybrooke - what with its wicked witches and time travelling holy wars. So when she starts saying NYC was good, we know that she's comparing the two and finding Storybrooke seriously wanting. She's not happy there and she and Henry aren't safe. Snow doesn't seem to care about the idea that Emma was happy. She's upset because it didn't include her. What's really interesting here is that if we look at Snow's definition of home for herself, it only includes David. She & David planned to return "home" to the Enchanted Forest regardless of whether Emma came with them or not. She was planning to stay in Neverland with David also without Emma or Henry because he was her home. I believe she actually stated that David is her home in "Quite a Common Fairy". Again at the beginning of 3B, she told Regina that the castle was their home (no Emma or Henry in sight). So how pray tell, is Emma wanting to stay in a place that made her safe and happy along with her son not a reasonable thing for Emma to call home? 

 

I don't think the writers meant for me to see it this way, but there's a huge double standard for what kind of home is acceptable for Snow to choose and what's okay for Emma. Emma is wrong for wanting good things in her life because it doesn't include her family - you know, the ones who only seem to want her around when she can do things for them. She's got to stick in a dangerous place and desperately search for the small number of good things she can find in Storybrooke. In terms of their relationship, Emma is fully aware of how many times her parents were willing to leave her and build a separate home without her. For someone who has been abandoned and felt unloved her entire life, having Emma base her home on a family that's pretty much cemented itself as a couple that doesn't include her in their own idea of home is ludicrous. It's pretty gross actually. And it's why I want Emma to just chuck them all over and go live in a nice beach house in Hawaii or something. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[sharky]

To be fair, it wasn't her parents that went back for her or sent her the note. It was Neal and Hook. And I think you have to give them credit for that -- they were very much about Emma having her memories and leaving her be when they returned to the Enchanted Forest.

That being said, I think we're going to see them acting very different towards baby Neal than Emma. The fact that she is an adult with a child of her own and the fact that they never saw her grow up probably makes that relationship more awkward than a typical parent and child.

Edited June 8, 2014 by sharky

[Mari]

To be fair, it wasn't her parents that went back for her or sent her the note. It was Neal and Hook. And I think you have to give them credit for that -- they were very much about Emma having her memories and leaving her be when they returned to the Enchanted Forest.

That being said, I think we're going to see them acting very different towards baby Neal than Emma. The fact that she is an adult with a child of her own and the fact that they never saw her grow up probably makes that relationship more awkward than a typical parent and child.

Taking my response to the relationship thread.

[stealinghome]

I don't even think the problem is Snow, honestly, the problem is just that the writers have literally no good reason for why Emma shouldn't want to go back to New York City. I mean, honestly, if anyone was looking out for Henry's best interests here, they'd have that kid moving back to New York City like tomorrow, family be damned. Because it is, by far, the safer and more normal place for Henry to be, where he can actually socialize with kids his own age, who have grown up with things like TV and running water instead of swords and bows, and not have to worry at every moment that a new Big Bad is going to swoop in and try to take his heart or kill his family members (or worry that one of his mothers is going to try to off the other side of his family).

 

So, like, yeah, "family" is bad excuse, but it's literally the only reason the writers can pull out, because it actually makes zero sense for Emma to stay in Storybrooke.

[KAOS Agent]

 

or worry that one of his mothers is going to try to off the other side of his family

 

Poor Emma. That's it. The main reason she needs to stick around is so that Henry can play referee and keep Regina from going psycho crazy on everyone else. It really is all about Regina.

Edited June 8, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Emma]

Yeah, you know, that's a good question. We say this a lot, but the show has become really lacking in friendships, and probably the person who could use a friend more than anyone else is Emma.

 

Agreed. It has to be someone who doesn't have connections to Hook or her parents. Someone that is Emma's alone. Not that they can't make friends with the others eventually. But I don't want Emma to filter what she says to them in fear of the friend going back to one of the others.

 

I wish she could get a fully platonic friend too. In an interview when asked about Emma and friendships, Kitsis said that Hook was her friend.

 

Agreed here too. I love that Hook is her person but she needs a girl friend. Someone she can get silly with, take off shopping with, rant over ice cream, and so on.

 

Heck, I'd even be happy if it was someone she was friends with in NY. A phone call here and there or a visit here and there. The problem with that though is it would be someone outside of magic so how honest could Emma be with them.

 

I rewatched the scene between Emma & Snow where they talk about returning to New York City and it still bothers me on so many levels because it really demonstrates the problems that I have with the Snow/Emma relationship and how the show portrayed Emma's need to go back to NYC in 3B.

 

 And it's why I want Emma to just chuck them all over and go live in a nice beach house in Hawaii or something. 

 

Word to your entire post but I'm just quoting these lines.

 

It's my most hated scene in the series.

 

On one hand I'd love to see Emma ditch everyone and go find her happy place and live out her days in peace. I could be done with the show and hopefully watch Jennifer in something new. On the other hand, I need to see Emma get her happy ending. I want to see that final scene focused on her before it fades to black. I'm also that idiot who hopes they fix some of the messes they made in season 4.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Emma

[Aethermancer]

Exactly.  Besides which, after seeing Regina's homicidal actions up close and personal, why in the world would she let Henry be within a hundred miles of her?  Yet she shakes all the horror off pretty darn quick and gets cozy with Hook at Granny's.  It was a little too illogical and rushed for me.  It is not believable to me that she would let love of family override every bit of experience she has had.

This is one of the things that really comes back to me again and again while watching this show with my spouse.  The characters all seem to forget about or dismiss the literally horrific things that Regina has done.   By now, she must have PERSONALLY murdered thousands of people, some of them good close friends of the main characters.  I don't care how bad the foster care system might be, it can't be worse than Regina, fairytale Hitler.

[ShadowFacts]

Emma was almost contrite in her attitude when Regina unleashed her little tirade about not thinking about consequences of bringing back Marian.  Excuse me?  She needs to wake up and quit drinking the Kool Aid of how righteous Regina has become. Henry has already been in so much danger, as other posters have highlighted, and Season One's portrayal of Regina as a bad mother just can't be papered over by any amount of retconning.  Regina is an unfit parent by virtue of her crimes and Henry needs to be protected from her, if not by Emma, then who? His father who he barely knew is now dead and his other relatives are Regina-coddlers and another murderous, power-mad  criminal.  Emma needs to step up.  I am disappointed that her character has been diluted and/or sullied the way it has been. 

[Shanna Marie]

I had a flash of insight into why/how the whole walls things applied to Hook when Emma's main lesson in her Back to the Future experience was about her parents, so let's hope it still makes sense when I put it into words.

 

As much as we might be frustrated by the way her parents act toward her, Emma has never actually shown any sign of being all that bothered by baby do-over or her parents choosing each other over her or only wanting her around when they need the savior. I don't think her problem is necessarily the abandonment/foster care/Neal issues, since all that remained even when she was having her "good life" in New York. Her main problem with her parents seems to be that she never really thinks of them as actually being her parents. She may kind of believe the fairy tale stuff, but I think there was still a big part of her that just didn't make that connection between them and her. She didn't really articulate it until the finale, when she was talking to Hook about them being fairytale characters, not really people or parents, and her not being part of that world, but she's always been rather eye-rolly about all the fairytale stuff. She does some great "Seriously? Give me a break!" expressions. When you think about it, Emma's situation sounds like fairytale Mary Sue fanfic written by an imaginative 12-year-old girl: "I'm a fairytale princess, and Snow White and Prince Charming are my parents, only they're still young because who wants an old Prince Charming? Ew! And I'm the Savior, and I have special white-magic powers. And one of the great storybook villains, only he's way hotter than in the book, is so madly in love with me that he changes sides and becomes a good guy!" (You know, it may be a good thing that the writers love Regina so much because if they actually loved Emma, she would probably be insufferable.) But Emma isn't a dreamer. She's a realist, even a cynic, and she'd probably laugh at anyone who came up with such a fantasy about her life, so she'd have a hard time applying that scenario to herself. It just doesn't compute. She can't make the connection between things in a storybook -- the fantasy -- and real life -- herself. As she told Hook, she's not part of that world. And that may be why she isn't too upset about how her parents have treated her. If they don't really feel like parents or even real people to her, it wouldn't hurt to not have them treat her like a daughter. This is also probably part of why she's fleeing Hook. If she can't deal with the idea that Snow White and Prince Charming are her parents, she also won't be able to deal with the idea of being in love with Captain Hook. She's not part of his world, either. Even if he dropped everything and moved to New York with her (which he probably would), he's Captain Hook, a fictional character, not a real person, so it's still "does not compute" territory.

 

Her Enchanted Forest adventure made her see the people behind the storybook -- that her parents were just people trying to make their lives work. By participating in their story, she became another fairytale character. She's now in the book and feels like part of their world, and she knows that she can't bear to lose them. When that set of walls came down, she was also open to loving and being loved by Hook because she's now part of his world, too.

 

Not that I think they conveyed all that particularly well, and they went way too abruptly from her giggling while using her magic to "I won't need magic in New York."  But I do think that she had to accept herself as a fairytale princess before she could accept her parents as parents and accept any kind of relationship with Hook.

[unbrokensavior]

I know a lot of people are upset about Emma's whole "keep running until I miss some place, because that's home" thing, but regardless of whether A&E just pulled it out of nowhere for plot purposes and/or are incorporating it into their delusion that they're writing Emma well, it still explains a lot about Emma's past and some of the things she's done.  The longest place she'd stayed after getting out of jail was Tallahassee.  Clearly, she felt something there because she stayed so long.  Then she ran to the next city, presumably to see if she missed it and if it was home.  She continued to do that until Henry found her, and even at the end of this season, it's what she was still doing.  She wanted to see if Storybrooke was home.

 

Also, for someone who claims to not be sentimental and does better on her own and gave up on hope a long time ago, she sure searched for home a lot if she moved around as much as Regina said she did.  It also speaks to Emma's hidden optimism; she's never really stopped searching for home.

[Serena]

I personally don't think she felt something in Tallahassee. She was just desperately hoping to find Neal.

[Serena]

I hope this is the right thread for this (do we have an 'Actors In Other Roles' thread?), but JMo filmed this short film during the hiatus. There are lots of pictures at the website. She plays a mother who loses her newborn child. I think this is her FOURTH project during the hiatus? Girl keeps busy.

[Shanna Marie]

I've been rewatching from the beginning, and I noticed that in the pilot when Emma and Mary Margaret are talking about how Henry thinks the people in the town are characters in his storybook, Mary Margaret asks Emma who he thinks Emma is, and Emma says, sounding kind of sad, "I'm not in the book." In the context of that episode, I think one reason she said that was because she didn't want to tell Mary Margaret that Henry thought she was Mary Margaret's daughter, but it does fit nicely with what she told Hook in the season 3 finale about not fitting with the people in the storybook because they were fairy tale characters and she isn't. She was in the book as a baby, but didn't really see that as herself until the end of season 3, when she also got to be in the book as "Princess Leia."

[Emma]

I hope this is the right thread for this (do we have an 'Actors In Other Roles' thread?), but JMo filmed this short film during the hiatus. There are lots of pictures at the website. She plays a mother who loses her newborn child. I think this is her FOURTH project during the hiatus? Girl keeps busy.

 

She had a very busy hiatus. She makes me feel lazy though.

 

While I'm looking forward to her movie projects, I really need her back on my screen as Emma.

 

Also looking forward to her Oz Con appearance in a couple weeks.

[Serena]

I think she had four projects this hiatus: the short movie with Karen Gillan she directed, the movie where she plays love interest to Kevin Bacon, the Amytiville sequel, and To Dust Return, a short movie where she plays a mother grieving her stillborn son. 

 

Good news, she's listed as a presenter at the CMF Hollywood Awards, so we'll get some news pics tonight.

[Emma]

So that's what those mentions on twitter and tumblr were. I didn't know what awards show they were talking about. Thank you so much for the link.

 

To Dust Return, Locked In (Amityville sequel), and Warning Labels will be released next year. No idea about 6 Miranda Drive though.

[FormerMod-a1]

I hope this is the right thread for this (do we have an 'Actors In Other Roles' thread?), but JMo filmed this short film during the hiatus. There are lots of pictures at the website. She plays a mother who loses her newborn child. I think this is her FOURTH project during the hiatus? Girl keeps busy.

If you don't see a thread topic for something, you can go ahead and create one. Just click the Start Topic button and away you go!

[Emma]

http://instagram.com/p/pkun74K6kI/#

 

Picture of JMo tonight presenting the award for best movie drama.

[Serena]

Apparently Jennifer is doing yet another movie. Again with Rose McIver, they seem to really have bonded. Here's a tweet from the costume designer. It's called Mattresside. I think this is like the fifth project for this hiatus.

[retrograde]

Here is the film's website, which has some more info and photos. 

[Serena]

They play sisters, how cute! Here's a pic of them from behind. I think they're totally believeable as siblings. 

Edited June 28, 2014 by Serena

[Emma]

Well no one can accuse Jen of being a bum during hiatus. Busy girl. Lucky for us fans.

 

I adore the friendship between her and Rose too.

 

This movie sounds off the wall and right up my alley. Hope we'll see it at some point.

[Camera One]

Emma's life as an unloved orphan and constant abandonment by others made her a disbeliever in magic and hope and happy endings and therefore difficult to convince her that magic existed.

Speaking of Emma's magic, the development of that in Season 3 was so start-and-go, and very poorly handled. I still hate how she got one lesson from Regina, and by the next episode, she said she would have it down by nightfall to confront Zelena.

I was thinking about Emma, and how Season 3 gave her three different arcs, though the first could arguably be split up:

- learning magic, accepting her role as Savour and her place in the Fairytale world

- relationship with parents

- trusting and being open to relationship with Hook

The first was given some time in 3A, in which she did accept her role as Saviour. In 3B, this regressed and wasn't dealt with until the finale.

The second was handled in the first two episodes of 3A, a little bit with David, and then not really until the finale.

The third was probably given the most time and continuity in both 3A and 3B.

[Dani-Ellie]

Of course the magic was haphazardly handled, because Emma coming to terms with and growing into her magic wasn't the point of the overall story (according to Adam and Eddy, at any rate ... I would love Emma and her magic and everything about her to be front and center, but alas, here we are). They had Emma build her magic to fight Zelena but then they stole it from her because storywise, Regina needed to be the one to end the fight. (And honestly, I was okay with Regina very obviously being the one to defeat Zelena. Regina was at the center of the vendetta. Of course she was the one who needed to overcome it in the end. But, like with most of my complaints about this show, I was upset with how it was handled.)

 

So Emma's a magic wunderkind because they needed her to be for the plot build-up and "yes, Emma can defeat Zelena" and then they took it away from her so Regina could pull white magic out of her ass. Yet again, something that should have been a journey of self-discovery and empowerment for Emma was rushed through for the sake of plot.

 

I hope the development of her magic continues in the next season, in which case ... ignore my rant. ;)

Edited July 1, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[YaddaYadda]

I guess they will continue doing that whole developing Emma's magic, I mean that's how she and Hook got back home, because she managed to re-open the portal using her magic (or powers of concentration).

 

I figure between what I read about Elsa, she and Emma are pretty much in the same boat.  I'd like to see the writers build a bridge for Emma with that.

[Shanna Marie]

Yet again, something that should have been a journey of self-discovery and empowerment for Emma was rushed through for the sake of plot.

And for Regina. Because it's all about Regina.

 

Because I do agree that it made story sense for Regina to be the one to take on and ultimately defeat Zelena, since she was the target, I've been trying to think of how/why they could have ended up back in Storybrooke without that "only Emma can do it! We must get to Emma!" diversion. That was the problem -- setting it up so that only Emma could do it, then taking away Emma's magic and revealing that, oops, Regina could do it after all. It was like giving something to Emma, only to take it away and give it to Regina.

 

I don't think that Neal knew only Emma could defeat Zelena, just that the curse was being cast again and that Zelena had added a memory amendment, so Neal knew Emma would be needed and sent Hook after her. So, whatever reason they had for casting the curse, Emma would still likely have ended up there.

 

I would hope that Emma's rediscovery of her magic after accepting her feelings for her family will lead to her getting more into what her power can do.

[KAOS Agent]

Emma's emotional and character arcs were pretty much completely skipped over in 3B and seemed like a total afterthought that was rushed and shoved through in the finale. Much as I loved the finale because it finally gave Emma a chance to shine, it was still mostly plot, plot, plot with a light switch flipping character moment at the end. 3B was such a disappointment because they had set up so much with regards to Emma and then just pretty much ignored it. 

 

Stealing Emma's magic with the highly contrived kiss curse was, in my opinion, the most disgusting plot point from 3B. Not only did they waste several episodes of Emma supposedly developing her magic, but they removed something from Emma that made her special and then completely skipped over how that should have made her feel by sticking with the endless I *heart* New York refrain. Beyond the fact that it's ridiculous that you can just cast a spell that steals someone's magic (why isn't this done all over the place by all stripes of magic users?), I don't understand why couldn't they have just created a story where harnessing & using enough magic was too much to expect from Emma in such a short time. It's been shown to take years to develop truly powerful magic, so that would have been very plausible. That way Regina still could have found it within herself to defeat Zelena and I wouldn't feel like the writers needed to diminish one character in service of another.

 

They also completely skipped dealing with Emma's relationship with her family. What was done in the finale did nothing to fix the very real problems between the Charmings and Emma. Sure, Emma realized that she loved her family and wanted to stay with them, but Snow "dying" causing her to run home and call her parents mom and dad made that moment so unearned. Emma was not the only one with problems in that family's relationship. I strongly dislike the implication that everything was Emma's fault and now that she's accepting, it's all good. Snow straight up told Emma that she wasn't enough, got a replacement baby and never once bothered to try to broach this issue with her daughter. And then these people named their do over baby after the man who abandoned their daughter pregnant and in jail and left her emotionally stunted for over a decade. Regardless of the circumstances, what were these parents thinking? What were these writers thinking? It's just a giant blinking sign over the Charmings that says, "We do not know or understand Emma!" 

[Camera One]

Stealing Emma's magic with the highly contrived kiss curse was, in my opinion, the most disgusting plot point from 3B.

 

That was supposed to show how much Emma loved Hook deep inside. I can see the writers thinking that romantic angle was Emma's reward, and she didn't need victory.  Because the ultimate goal of the season was having Regina re-discover the light inside of her.

 

I don't understand why couldn't they have just created a story where harnessing & using enough magic was too much to expect from Emma in such a short time. It's been shown to take years to develop truly powerful magic, so that would have been very plausible. That way Regina still could have found it within herself to defeat Zelena and I wouldn't feel like the writers needed to diminish one character in service of another.

 

That would have been so much better.  As someone else said, they could have broken down the defeat of Zelena so that *everyone* could have played a part.  They literally did the opposite by having Zelena fling everyone against the wall en route to stealing the baby.  That was in the same freak'in episode where she was miraculously defeated by Regina like it was as easy as ABC and 123.

[Dani-Ellie]

That was the problem -- setting it up so that only Emma could do it, then taking away Emma's magic and revealing that, oops, Regina could do it after all. It was like giving something to Emma, only to take it away and give it to Regina.

 

Exactly. I just don't understand why Emma's magic needed to be taken at all. Why give her this one thing that made her feel special -- and it's not like Emma's felt special much in her life -- and then rip it away from her? Why write her enjoying it to the point that omg Emma Swan giggled, you guys only to take it from her? I mean, yeah, it made it mean more when she willingly gave it up to save Hook, but why was the side plot of giving it up necessary at all? Why not just write Zelena magically whacking over the head with something in the barn and knocking her out? Then there actually might have been some tension in the fight because Zelena just took out their Plan A. Regina could still come through in the clutch ... maybe everyone else forces her to try, just because she's the only other magic user they have, and again with the actual tension ... and we wouldn't be left with a destroyed Emma in the process.

 

I can see the writers thinking that romantic angle was Emma's reward, and she didn't need victory.  Because the ultimate goal of the season was having Regina re-discover the light inside of her.

 

I can see that, too, and it makes me so sad. I miss the focus on Emma's story. I miss the focus on characters who aren't Regina. And it pisses me off that we spent so much of 3B giving Regina all the shinies only for them to seemingly reset her at the end of the finale. What the hell is the point, then? There's a writing tip out there that if a plot goes from A to B to C to D and nothing changes as a result, it should come out of the story. Circular storytelling doesn't progress anything.

 

Meanwhile, Emma goes from thinking Henry was the only family she needs to wanting her mom and dad and baby brother and kid and boyfriend in the span of two episodes. And yeah, it tracks because Emma did need to let them in but that shouldn't be the whole answer. Emma didn't just need a light bulb moment and *poof* all better because Emma's not the entire problem here. The issues thrown at the Charmings for the sake of plot through the entire season are issues, and it wasn't all Emma. Snow and Charming were willing to leave her to stay in Neverland. Snow wanted (and got!) her do-over baby. Snow was pushing Emma towards Neal. Neither one of them ever bothered to push her on New York, ask her why she wanted to go back so badly. Neither one of them spent any time at all considering that maybe it was hard for her being dragged back into the nuttiness. These are all very real issues but because Emma accepts it all now, everything's fine? I don't think so.

 

And maybe like my hope for Emma's magic, this will be dealt with in the upcoming season now that Emma's a little more open, but I just don't trust that it will. I think it's more likely that the writers are all "Charming mischief managed" and won't even think to touch on it at all.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[YaddaYadda]

I guess we really need to pay attention to those season titles.  Wicked vs Evil, yeah, that was really never going to be about Emma defeating Zelena.  It sucks so much though.  I thought Emma doing magic and how much she was enjoying herself was just super fun for me as a viewer because like Hook said, she was finally embracing that part of herself which at the end of the day would have helped embrace who she was and where she came from.

 

I hate contrived plot points.  At the end of the day, I think the writers need to drop the whole Emma is the Savior.  I'm starting to have issues with it.  Emma is the Savior, therefore she's the one who has to defeat Pan, but wait!  Rumple did that.  Emma is the Savior, therefore we have bring her to find whoever enacted the curse (mom and dad) and who Zelena is and how she has to defeat her, but wait!  Regina can true love kiss without a heart and can do light magic.

 

So now, I'd like to see them move past the whole Savior mantra and into something else, like Emma is a magical being who needs to hone her craft.  She has it if she needs it.

[Rumsy4]

Yeah--she is not the savior anymore--she was written in as the saviour for the First Curse, and she broke it. It makes no sense to keep calling her that. Now, she is a powerful magical being (a White Witch, if you will), who is developing her abilities. 

Edited July 1, 2014 by Rumsy4

[FabulousTater]

I strongly dislike the implication that everything was Emma's fault and now that she's accepting, it's all good. Snow straight up told Emma that she wasn't enough, got a replacement baby and never once bothered to try to broach this issue with her daughter. And then these people named their do over baby after the man who abandoned their daughter pregnant and in jail and left her emotionally stunted for over a decade. Regardless of the circumstances, what were these parents thinking? What were these writers thinking? It's just a giant blinking sign over the Charmings that says, "We do not know or understand Emma!"

These two events are basically why I can't watch this show anymore. I held on throughout 3B hoping they'd actually develop Emma's story, but nope. Another super contrived, eye-roll inducing light switch moment for the character. Yay.

 

Even a month+ later and just the thought of those two events KAOSAgent mentioned above makes me want to take a baseball bat to the TV. TBH, naming the baby after DoucheCassidy was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I stick around here because the conversation is fun and enjoyable. But as far as the show is concerned I'm feeling done. The show just pisses me off. I can't even hate watch.

Edited July 2, 2014 by FabulousTater

[YaddaYadda]

Meanwhile, Emma goes from thinking Henry was the only family she needs to wanting her mom and dad and baby brother and kid and boyfriend in the span of two episodes. And yeah, it tracks because Emma did need to let them in but that shouldn't be the whole answer. Emma didn't just need a light bulb moment and *poof* all better because Emma's not the entire problem here.

 

I would have been ok if Emma decided to go back to New York and asked Hook to go with her.  I know she loves her son, but that child is such a little weasel.  He has no loyalty to her whatsoever.  I know what the show says that Henry was bringing Emma home, I think that might have been true for season 1, but even then...Henry went from worshipping the ground she walked on to basically wishing that he hadn't gone to get her.  I know I've mentioned it before, but that makes me incredibly angry.  So whatever, as far as I'm concerned, Henry can keep on stepping.  I know!  Maybe Emma can have a re-do baby of her own! 

 

 

The issues thrown at the Charmings for the sake of plot through the entire season are issues, and it wasn't all Emma. Snow and Charming were willing to leave her to stay in Neverland. Snow wanted (and got!) her do-over baby. Snow was pushing Emma towards Neal. Neither one of them ever bothered to push her on New York, ask her why she wanted to go back so badly. Neither one of them spent any time at all considering that maybe it was hard for her being dragged back into the nuttiness. These are all very real issues but because Emma accepts it all now, everything's fine? I don't think so.

 

The Charmings look like idiots.  I'm thinking that the idea to name the baby Neal was entirely Snow's and David is such a push over.  I love him, but he needs to not listen to her anymore.

 

Obviously, none of the BS Neal put Emma through will ever be addressed.  The only person who ever said anything to him was Hook when he told him he left her once already.  And now Neal is some hero even though he played right into Zelena's hands.

[Mari]

The Charmings look like idiots.  I'm thinking that the idea to name the baby Neal was entirely Snow's and David is such a push over.  I love him, but he needs to not listen to her anymore.

 

Obviously, none of the BS Neal put Emma through will ever be addressed.  The only person who ever said anything to him was Hook when he told him he left her once already.  And now Neal is some hero even though he played right into Zelena's hands.

The most generous explanation I can think of it that they don't really have a clue what happened with Emma/Neal (because that would require being actually interested in Emma the person, instead of Emma Who Is Useful) and it was their--Snow inspired--way of trying to connect with her.

 

What makes me even angrier is the way Emma has now started to dismiss it (the Neal/Henry/jail situation) as all a big, terrible misunderstanding that she overreacted to.

 

I tell myself it's because she needs to believe that for Henry's sake.

[Rumsy4]

The whole show is become one huge victim-blaming mess--no wonder Emma thinks Neal did the right thing by sending her to jail, and feels guilty about saving Marian's life. If Season 4 is going to sideline Emma as much as in 3B, I will finally quit the Show.

[Souris]

If the show tries to blame Emma for saving Marian -- not her feeling guilty about it for a little bit and getting over it, but actually setting it up so that OMG, EMMA SUCKS FOR DOING THAT -- I will flip. a. table. Then set it upright and flip it again.

[Shanna Marie]

Emma is the Savior, therefore we have bring her to find whoever enacted the curse (mom and dad) and who Zelena is and how she has to defeat her, but wait!  Regina can true love kiss without a heart and can do light magic.

If they were going to have Regina be the one to defeat Zelena, which I do think was proper in terms of story structure, then they could have at least thrown Emma a bone and given her a reason for being there by letting her be the one to break the memory curse. As it was, Emma could have just stayed in New York and sent Henry to spend the weekend with his grandparents and it wouldn't have changed the story at all. Mary Margaret found the book that restored Henry's belief and his memories, which allowed Regina to break the memory curse, and then she defeated Zelena. When you can remove your heroine and not change the outcome, you have some writing issues.

 

If the show tries to blame Emma for saving Marian -- not her feeling guilty about it for a little bit and getting over it, but actually setting it up so that OMG, EMMA SUCKS FOR DOING THAT -- I will flip. a. table. Then set it upright and flip it again.

Since these idiots apparently do read things they're tagged for on Twitter, I may resort to joining Twitter and thoroughly Twittershaming them.

[Camera One]

then they could have at least thrown Emma a bone and given her a reason for being there by letting her be the one to break the memory curse.

 

Regina needs to show her deep love for Henry.  Look how far she's come.  And such deep irony... this time, Regina breaks the Curse and Emma's evil parents enacted it.  

[Rumsy4]

I feel like the writers have been slowly and surely eroding Emma's value in the Show. If I was JMo, I would not be happy with it. In Season 1, we were made to believe that Regina did not love Henry and that was the reason Emma stayed. She grew to truly and sacrificially love her son, and broke the Dark Curse with her love. In Season 2, we have Henry telling Emma that she was just like Regina for lying to him about Neal, and the Season 2 finale had Emma and Regina joining together to stop the Self-destruct Trigger. In Season 3, Emma does many things to contribute to the plot in 3A and to a certain degree in 3B, but the climactic moments belong to the villains hands-down. Rumple kills Pan. Regina stops Pan's Curse. Regina breaks the memory Curse. Regina defeats Zelena. Henry tells Regina that he regrets having brought Emma to Storybrooke, and Regina loves Henry with a True Love from her soul, which seems to be written as something even more special than loving with a heart. I mean, in Season 2, we found that Emma had magic because her heart could not be taken. Now, we are shown that it doesn't really matter if your heart is taken. Emma can do White Magic? So can Regina, even without a heart! I'm afraid of Season 4 if this trend continues. 

[Camera One]

I suppose they are turning her into a romantic lead.  And at least Emma isn't being constantly character-assassinated like Snow.  I completely agree with you, but I guess it could be worse.  As a viewer who is more invested in Emma and Emma alone and her relationship with Henry, Snow and Charming, it's deeply disappointing.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Camera One

[stealinghome]

I feel like the writers have been slowly and surely eroding Emma's value in the Show.

I agree, but I don't necessarily think it's intentional (though imo they are aware of it--it's something they seemed to be grappling with in 3B). I think it's a combination of their massive Regina permaboner getting out of control and, more importantly, the fact that they clearly never had a plan for what would happen after the curse broke. Seriously, everything after S1 ended has been the writers throwing crap at the wall and seeing what will stick, because they obviously have no bigger plan. At all. And Emma being not-the-Savior anymore is a great example of this. They realized they didn't really have a justification for her being the lead character if being the Savior was really just Rumpel's machination and there's no Savior without an active curse, so they tried to do an end-run around that by making Emma full of ~Powerful Magic. Only that's inconvenient for them, because a) magic on this show has been so unchecked that Emma should be able to solve any problem by waving her hand and b) if Emma has Powerful Magic, the Charmings have no reason not to throw Regina and Rumpel into jail...miles under the ocean...where no one will ever find them. So the show tries to forget that Emma has Powerful Magic like 90% of the time because it's inconvenient for plot reasons, but then, oh wait, we have to justify why we keep her around, and why she's ostensibly the lead.... But when Regina has to be The Awesomest Awesome Ever, we have to get rid of Emma's magic!

 

Moreover, it's not just content, they also lack a structural plan for the show. I know I've said this before, but imo one of the biggest structural problems the show has had since they broke the curse is trying to have the Core Five (Snow, Charming, Emma, Regina, and Rumpel) split air time in Storybrooke. In S1, having Mary Margaret and David in the background in Storybrooke worked because they were front and center in the fairybacks, and to a somewhat lesser extent, the same was true of Rumpel--Gold could be more in the background because Rumpel was all over the fairybacks (in fact, he featured in more fairybacks than Regina did). And then it made sense that the core conflicts were Snowing vs Regina in the Enchanted Forest and Emma vs Regina in the present day. But now, with everyone their Enchanted selves in Storybrooke, imo it honestly doesn't make sense that Snow and Charming take a backseat to Emma. They're rulers of a freaking kingdom! The most Emma has ever ruled is, like, a small apartment, you know? So it's awkward to begin with, because Emma isn't really the focal character for the good guys in Storybrooke anymore--she has to split "Good Guy Lead Time" with Snowing in a way that imo is still awkward. And then it's all compounded by the fact that this has become Once Upon a Regina, so the other core characters are fighting for even less air time in Storybrooke.

 

Mind you, I think they could have done interesting things with Emma psyching herself up to be the Savior, only to realize that she's not the Savior anymore. After Emma's talk with snow in Rumpel's prison and then with Rumpel in 2x09, I thought that's part of what 2B was going to be about--Emma not being The Savior anymore, but maybe becoming a savior. But the show didn't really go there.

[KingOfHearts]

Emma is in a weird limbo right now. Her parents don't really give a darn because they're busy with Snowflake, Henry is back on Regina Duty, and she is no longer the savior. The only bit of hope as a character she has right now is with Hook. Since Emma has accepted her fairy tale life, her relationship with Hook is really the only other place to go in her development. Getting her to believe in her heritage was her main drive, but that was pretty much concluded in the S3 finale.

 

The remaining question besides Hook is whether she'd stay in the Enchanted Forest, but I don't think they'll tackle that until the final season.

Edited July 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[legaleagle53]

I'd like to see the writers build a bridge for Emma with that.

 

I see what you did there -- and so did Emma!  ;-)

[YaddaYadda]

I see what you did there -- and so did Emma!  ;-)

Tying ropes is for pedestrians!

[Rumsy4]

 

I agree, but I don't necessarily think it's intentional (though imo they are aware of it--it's something they seemed to be grappling with in 3B). I think it's a combination of their massive Regina permaboner getting out of control and, more importantly, the fact that they clearly never had a plan for what would happen after the curse broke.

 

I agree that their lack of a clear plan for what happened after the Curse broke causes a lot of problems, but I don't think side-lining Emma has anything to with that. If they could come up with arcs for the villains to do, they sure as heck ought to have included big things for Emma as well. I thought the end of Going Home was an amazing set-up, but the resolution of everything in 3B was a huge mess. Let's hope they let Emma gets to have something major to do with Elsa's arc.

[ShadowFacts]

I say get ready for some table flippin', Souris.  They do love to put Regina up on her high horse.  And I feel that Emma's character has been sufficiently assassinated.  I've said before that if Emma were true to her own experience, she wouldn't let Henry be alone with Regina.  After having just seen what Regina did to her mother, she should be firming up living arrangements and protections for Henry, not getting contrite about bringing Marian back.

[KingOfHearts]

Emma is always most helpful in areas that don't have magic. Her expertise is in the real world, and her investigative wit, is never dry. If we can get more circumstances where we can't rely on magic, Emma would be a lot more useful. She had plenty to do in S1 besides breaking the curse because of her awesome bail bondswoman skills.

 

In regards to her relationship with Regina, I would hate for Emma to feel like what she did about Marian was a bad thing. She's totally innocent, and if Regina guilt trips her about in S4, I'll be ticked. Not only for Emma's sake, but for Regina's too. Regina and Emma, believe it or not, can make a good team. This kind of riff, which seems to be blown up to Stable Boy proportions, is very dumb.

Edited July 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Emma is always most helpful in areas that don't have magic. Her expertise is in the real world, and her investigative wit, is never dry. If we can get more circumstances where we can't rely on magic, Emma would be a lot more useful. She had plenty to do in S1 besides breaking the curse because of her awesome bail bondswoman skills.

 

 

That's sort of why they can't have magical bad guys come all the time.  A non magical being who can't be defeated by magic should be far more interesting and it will give Emma, David, MM and Hook.

 

I know the finale wasn't everyone's cup of tea but one of the things that I actually enjoyed a lot from it was that Emma and Hook had to rely on their wits.  Yes, Rumple magicked them a new wardrobe and an invitation, but he didn't do anything beyond that.  It was Hook and Emma with David's assistance and a side of Red thrown in.  These people were all helping each other out and it was nice.

[Shanna Marie]

But now, with everyone their Enchanted selves in Storybrooke, imo it honestly doesn't make sense that Snow and Charming take a backseat to Emma. They're rulers of a freaking kingdom! The most Emma has ever ruled is, like, a small apartment, you know? So it's awkward to begin with, because Emma isn't really the focal character for the good guys in Storybrooke anymore--she has to split "Good Guy Lead Time" with Snowing in a way that imo is still awkward.

That actually would make a good basis for a character arc for Emma -- now that she's accepted who she is, that she's truly a fairy tale princess and her parents are Snow White and Prince Charming, where does she fit into their world? For one thing, what's the line of succession -- does it go to the oldest child or to the oldest son? Is she in line for a throne, or is she just a princess who needs to find something else to do (or, depending on how you look at things, is free to find something else to do)? Was she really passionate about the bail bonds business, or was it just something she fell into and her "I will always find you" genes kicking in? What about being sheriff? If she got her choice of what to do with her life -- whether in Storybrooke or in the Enchanted Forest, what would it be? And if they're looking to develop her relationship with Hook, that works because he's in a similar position of needing to figure out what he wants to be now that he no longer wants to be a pirate. The two of them could help each other figure these things out.

 

And then her role in this place might give them a better idea of her role in the show. They seemed to have declared her the "Leader" in 3A, since she was the one who kept the group together and came up with a lot of the strategy. She is the one with the most common sense (most of the time) and street smarts. She seems best suited to the cat herding that's sometimes required to get all these crazy people to work together.

[FabulousTater]

 I agree, but I don't necessarily think it's intentional (though imo they are aware of it--it's something they seemed to be grappling with in 3B). I think it's a combination of their massive Regina permaboner getting out of control and, more importantly, the fact that they clearly never had a plan for what would happen after the curse broke. Seriously, everything after S1 ended has been the writers throwing crap at the wall and seeing what will stick, because they obviously have no bigger plan.

 

I agree that their lack of a clear plan for what happened after the Curse broke causes a lot of problems, but I don't think side-lining Emma has anything to with that. If they could come up with arcs for the villains to do, they sure as heck ought to have included big things for Emma as well. I thought the end of Going Home was an amazing set-up, but the resolution of everything in 3B was a huge mess. Let's hope they let Emma gets to have something major to do with Elsa's arc.

 

Ya, ITA with you Rumsy4.

 

I just don't buy that sidelining Emma is because they had no plan. IA that it doesn't help, but from my POV sidelining Emma had everything to do with their hard-on love of Regina. As Rumsy4 pointed out, they were able to come up with ways (though they were crappy) to keep Regina around in a non-Evil Queen capacity and gave Regina all these shiny new abilities. But how did they do it? By literally taking away and diminishing the qualities that make Emma unique and as a result Emma's character has become almost redundant in her own damn story! The writers have made Regina simultaneously the Villain AND the Savior, the Victim AND the Assailant, the purveyor of the darkest magic AND the lightest light magic. She has a shriveled charcoal brick for a heart but it doesn't matter because she's got the most powerful light blinding soul that has ever been. It's effing insane. And a load of BULLSHIT!

 

So I don't buy it. The writers sidelined Emma because they just don't give two shits about her character. The fact that her character development happens in these light switch moments at the very end of the season tells me right there that Emma is a total afterthought to them. And I don't expect any of it to change come season 4. Because if the past two seasons have taught me anything is that it's going to get worse and I'm not going to stick around to watch that.

 

(And really, the good guys in general are afterthoughts to these writers. Just look at Snowing's story arc throughout season 3. What was it? Oh, that's right "We want a replacement baby!" for 3A and "We're having our replacement baby!" in 3B. I'm putting money right now on their entire season 4 story arc being about changing diapers and "gee, babies cry a lot, don't they.")

 

Edited July 2, 2014 by FabulousTater