Emma Swan: 1000% done with your infuriating optimism

[Joanh23]

yeah all I wanted was for David to give Emma a big hug when she got off the lift.  

I loved the scene where Emma got her red jacket - I thought it was really well done.

[Mari]

I actually liked the Emma flashbacks, but will admit that I'm refusing to accept that was supposed to happen when she was twenty six.  In my head, I just substituted nineteen.  That worked better.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm having a problem with that as well.

She meets Cleo a whole 2 years before Henry comes, and she dons the armor a year before. 

How does someone who still wears her heart on her sleeve in spite of jail, giving up her child, being homeless, still knocking off convenience stores to survive becomes the Emma we met in season 1. It just seems like the transformation happened overnight instead of something that was happening overtime. Is it because someone told her that's how she should be? 

And why would she even go back to Phoenix after we know she left there?

I thought the flashbacks would be set up much earlier in her life, like right after she left jail, or a couple of years later. 

Other than that, present day stuff murdered my heart. The whole "don't put the armor back because you're about to lose me" did me in solid.

[Camera One]

That was my feeling as well.  I mean Young Emma after the second incident with Lily was already on her way to becoming the closed-off Emma we know.  Losing Henry should have been the last straw.  The flashback should have been set right after that, as she desperately tried to find her parents to mask the pain of losing her son.  It could still fit very well with this Cleo person who felt like some random character-of-the-week on some Law and Order show.  "Firebird" made it feel like an insta-transformation a mere 2 years before the pilot.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

I don't get why the writers set the flashback to a mere two years before the pilot. It makes absolutely no sense. They had JMo play a 16/17 year old in the Tallahasse flashback and in 3A giving birth to Henry. So, she could have played a two-years out of jail 19/20 year old Emma. The timeline decisions on this Show are atrocious. I'm just going to mentally headcanon that the flashback happened soon after she got out of jail. I don't care what the title card said.

[Mari]

Math is their downfall.  They were tricked by math.  Just have your brain substitute 18 or 19.

 

I'm putting this in the same category as Regina's lack of dance skills.  Just not logical; did not happen that way.  

[tri4335]

It's also the math on how much was the bail and would it really be worth it to chase Emma down.  Even if Cleo was from the New England area, she still had to incur all the expenses to get Emma back to Arizona.  Was Emma's bail really that high to make it worth it. It is typical for these writers to ignore all the logic and details.  Because in my mind to make it worth tracking Emma down, she needed to have committed armed robbery and how did she make that go away and not show up on any of Sidney's searches.

The reason I think they wanted it set a mere two years is that they wanted to separate it from Neil sending her to jail but in doing that they've basically have made it appear that Emma left jail and continued to be a thief and that she learned nothing from being in prison until she met Cleo.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

The reason I think they wanted it set a mere two years is that they wanted to separate it from Neil sending her to jail but in doing that they've basically have made it appear that Emma left jail and continued to be a thief and that she learned nothing from being in prison until she met Cleo.

I don't understand why jail wasn't enough. This makes August look even worse for thinking it would teach her something, only for it leave her in a life of crimes for additional years. It didn't put her on the right path like he said it would. What did he do to help her get on track? Tip Cleo off of her whereabouts?

[Camera One]

He probably planted that shard of glass there too. If Cleo hadn't died, Emma couldn't have been able to break the Curse.

[Rumsy4]

I'm feeling down today thinking about the episode. So, first Emma had to learn to let down her Walls and stop being afraid to lose people. Now, she needs to learn to move on after loss and not stop it from living her life. Well and good. But that's a Real World message that doesn't really belong in a Fairy Tale Show. First Emma needed to accept her fairy tale identity. Now, she needs to become a real world person again?? What kind of mixed message is that? 

Spoiler

And to top it off, Hook is coming back in the next episode. So, the message will go back to one of hope and belief in True Love? It all seems very disingenuous just to manufacture additional angst.

Jen and Colin were amazing, of course, and I was sobbing at all the CS moments. But I feel like Emma already learned the lesson of "letting go" in Swan Song. She only went to the UW to get Hook when she found out about Gold's betrayal. It feels doubly tragic now that they were confirmed as True Love by the Scales. Not that it was in any doubt before, but to them as two lost souls, it was a special moment. And now, people will blame Emma again for whatever havoc Hades wreaks in Storybrooke, becasue she is the dumping ground for bitter characters and viewers. I donno. It's going to take me a sneak peek or two to get over my cranky mood. 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

I am wracking my brain trying to figure out what this episode was trying to say or what Emma was supposed to learn.  Look at her pronouncement at the end of the episode: "When I bought this jacket, it was meant to be armor to protect me from getting hurt by those I love.  But now it's just a reminder that I have to protect those I love.  Nothing's more important."

Maybe I'm dense, but huh?  Where did that come from?

[Rumsy4]

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Look at her pronouncement at the end of the episode: "When I bought this jacket, it was meant to be armor to protect me from getting hurt by those I love.  But now it's just a reminder that I have to protect those I love.  Nothing's more important."

Maybe I'm dense, but huh?  Where did that come from?

That made the least sense to me. Isn't that want she's been doing since she came to Storybrooke? Or was she saying she was wrong to come to the UW to save Hook instead of protecting the people she loved (except Hook?)? I am very confused. It was even more cryptic than the monologue Snow delivered to Regina about the Queens of Darkness. 

[YaddaYadda]

8 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I am wracking my brain trying to figure out what this episode was trying to say or what Emma was supposed to learn.  Look at her pronouncement at the end of the episode: "When I bought this jacket, it was meant to be armor to protect me from getting hurt by those I love.  But now it's just a reminder that I have to protect those I love.  Nothing's more important."

Maybe I'm dense, but huh?  Where did that come from?

When Emma bought the jacket, she had no one in her life that she loved. She didn't know who her parents were, and I think had pretty much given up on finding them, Neal was long gone, and Henry's adoption was closed, and it's not like she was looking for him anyway.

I'm not sure what she was trying to protect herself from because she had no one, and decided that she would let no one in. She didn't do anything that led to emotional attachment, and she looked for one night stands instead of relationships. Before the 8 months with Walsh, Neal was her longest relationship which lasted something 2-3 months.

Now, she has a lot more at stake, but I always identified her red jacket as her wanting to protect the people she loved as opposed to something that was meant as her armour.

Plus the whole narrative about how she suddenly changed after being with Cleo for less than 48 hours just boggles the mind. But I guess it's pretty aligned with Emma calling Lily her best friend even though she knew her for less than 24 hours, or calling August her friend even though he ruined her life, or telling Neal she loves him even though he fucked up her life.

I love how the writers try to be poetic and manage to miss the mark.

[InsertWordHere]

8 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I don't understand why jail wasn't enough. This makes August look even worse for thinking it would teach her something, only for it leave her in a life of crimes for additional years. It didn't put her on the right path like he said it would. What did he do to help her get on track? Tip Cleo off of her whereabouts?

Yep. It also makes Neal's "I had no choice" even more laughable. Apparently, all Emma had to do to change her life was meet someone like Cleo who took a chance on her and gave her something to aspire to. Why couldn't Neal change his thieving ways and show Emma it was possible? Why couldn't August step in? The answer is still the same: they didn't want to. 

Jail did nothing except force Emma to give up Henry.

[KAOS Agent]

I didn't have a whole lot of expectations for the Emma backstory, but I appreciated a few things about her interactions with Cleo.

1. Cleo was a normal person from the Land without Magic
2. Cleo did not screw Emma over and actually helped her
3. Emma was so very Emma in bringing the closure she never got for herself to Cleo's daughter

I'm just sticking to these things and ignoring all the other problems, timeline wonkiness included, with the story to keep me in my happy place.

Edited May 3, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

Emma should start questioning if she's cursed or something. Seven people have died around her. Cleo, Neal, Hook, Cruella, Walsh, Ingrid and Graham. How many people does she have to watch die before she's adequately traumatized?

[tri4335]

53 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Emma should start questioning if she's cursed or something. Seven people have died around her. Cleo, Neal, Hook, Cruella, Walsh, Ingrid and Graham. How many people does she have to watch die before she's adequately traumatized?

The "White" genes are strong in Emma. She is obviously the evil of evil! :-P

[Curio]

Psssh, Regina has watched hundreds of people die around her. She's clearly so much more traumatized than Emma, according to Adam & Eddy.

[KingOfHearts]

42 minutes ago, Curio said:

Psssh, Regina has watched hundreds of people die around her. She's clearly so much more traumatized than Emma, according to Adam & Eddy.

Well, murdering a village and countless others is more traumatic than having multiple loved ones die in your arms to A&E.

Only when talking about this show would I be comparing those two things.

Edited May 3, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

Not eating someone's lasagna is more traumatic than seeing your boyfriend die to A&E.

[Shanna Marie]

The writing for Emma really is sadistic:

"The cosmic lesson you need to learn is to lower your walls and shed your armor and open yourself up to love and be able to imagine a future with someone you love. And now that you've done that, ha! The person you love has to die! Maybe you can save him. Oops, guess not. Instead, you have to kill him. Wait, maybe you can save him. Oops, never mind. Now the cosmic lesson you need to learn is to let go of the people you love."

I've heard of "put your characters in a tree and throw rocks at them" writing, but there has to be a win at some point.

[Curio]

The issue is that the show false advertises as a show about love and hope, when in reality, love and hope only take up about 5% of the screen time. If you look at the episodes, maybe 2 minutes will actually be devoted to fluffy, happy moments, and the rest is angst and drama. (If an episode is 43 minutes long, and 2 minutes are happy, that's approximately 5%.) With all the pain and misery Emma has gone through, I need a hell of a lot more than 2 minutes of happy fluff to make up for the angst, but that's never going to happen, so the scales will always be lopsided towards depression. Adam & Eddy think that if Emma gets to kiss Hook for 10 seconds or hug her parents for 5 seconds an episode, that's enough to show people that she's happy. 

Edited May 5, 2016 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

Thinking more about how sadistic they are toward Emma ...

Usually in an ongoing series, the reason the hero is in a tree with rocks being thrown at her is that there is always work to be done. The bad guys are still out there, causing problems, and the hero doesn't get a day off. That can get in the way of her personal life and force her to make difficult choices. In shorter-term storytelling, or in an arc within a longer story, the suffering usually comes from the hero failing to learn the cosmic life lesson. She gets close, then at the next-to-last second, she panics and reverts to her old ways, which leads to a kind of disaster. But then in the final test, she does get it right and ultimately triumphs because she learned the lesson.

But Emma is actually punished for getting it right. When she's put to the test and passes, her reward is to be punished, and then she's often criticized for not having hope or trust. So, she's tested about darkness, with stuff like learning about her parents' lie and finding out about Lily and having to kill Cruella. She's brought to the brink, nearly killing Lily, but stops, and then she ends up reconciling with her parents. Yay, Emma resisted all efforts to turn her dark. She passed the test. So what does she get? She has to become the Dark One, and is then criticized for showing any hints of darkness. While she's the Dark One, she gets almost no support from her family. They're distracted by other things, and when they do get involved, they cause more harm than good. They're the ones who have the brilliant plan to see if they can trust Arthur by telling him all their secrets and then seeing what he does about it. Her mother falls for Zelena's ploy, which leads to the big betrayal that results in Hook's wounding. But the cosmic lesson Emma has to learn is to not do things on her own, to trust her family to support her. So, she does when she tells them about her plan to go to the Underworld after Hook. Then what happens? They spend the whole time complaining about how long they've been away from home, wanting to talk to their other child, and wanting to get back to him, all providing next to no help. Emma's big problem is said to be that she has walls and armor, and she shuts people out, so even though she's lost just about everyone she's loved and isn't entirely insane to be a bit protective of herself, she's criticized for this. When she's able to lower her guard and face the future enough to light the flame (yet, oddly enough, it's not enough for a True Love's Kiss to cure her Dark Oneness), she gets rewarded by the boyfriend she was planning a future with dying. After a desperate attempt to save him, he dies for real, with her being the one to have to kill him. When she goes after him, she has to yet again one more time show that she's lowered her walls and really, really loves him, opening herself up to all that love, and she gets rewarded by losing him still some more. And after all that loss, her big cosmic lesson is that she has to learn to let go.

Now she has contradictory character flaws/cosmic lessons, that she has to both lower her guard and let people in and that she has to let go of everything she loves. It's a miracle that she hasn't just said "screw it" and become a villain. Regina would have been burning villages by this point.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

It's a miracle that she hasn't just said "screw it" and become a villain. Regina would have been burning villages by this point.

That was such a missed opportunity of 5A. I'm not saying I would have liked to see Emma go dark, but if you're going to make her the Dark One, take advantage of all the reasons she has to accept it. Her family wasn't there for her and always doing the good thing has bitten her in the butt repeatedly. As a human being, she has very little keeping her in hope. Clippy!Rumple should have had a field day with all her memories. He could have pointed how her parents abandoned her, how Neal portrayed her, how Regina constantly screws her over somehow. That's the sort of thing Rumple did to Cora to teach her to use dark magic. Instead, Clippy pretty much told her, "Do this - It's easy with magic!", which isn't much of an argument.

Clippy in Emma's house: "You're alone again. Remember when your parents were scared of your magic? They're terrified once more. You're the Dark One. They tell you to have hope, then they leave you stuck in the ditch. What kind of heroes are they? Power is your only friend, dearie. It can keep you warm at night. I'm the only one here for you. We can take Excalibur and have ultimate power - together. No one will have to suffer if you're in control. Snuff out the light, and you will be."

Edited May 5, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

I've listened to a podcast recently where the people were disparaging Emma for being "useless".  And the sad thing is...how do I even argue against that? 3A was the last time she was really allowed to be flat-out effective.  In 3B, despite all the build-up that she was the only one who could defeat Zelena, she was rendered powerless and Regina defeated Zelena, with the finale only having her fix what she screwed up in the first place.  In 4A, they again built her up as needing to master control over her magic and that she was the one who must defeat the Snow Queen...and she doesn't, Anna saves the day instead.  In 4B, she does next to nothing, her most major accomplishment (killing Cruella) is framed as bad and playing into Rumple's hands, and in the finale it's Regina's "light savior" blood that Henry uses to save the day. Emma does save Regina and the town from the Darkness, only for that to result in her being perhaps at her most useless as the Dark One in 5A, unable to succeed at anything good or bad.  Instead of a triumphant moment in the end, she gets a tragic one in being forced to kill her True Love.  And now we have 5B, where her whole plan to go down there and save Hook has failed, she got totally duped by Rumple and Hades, she's become riddled with guilt and criticizing herself for ever attempting this plan, and chances are that she won't be the one to defeat Hades (Zelena probably will.)  The writers have made the alleged star of their show, its main protagonist, its heroine....totally useless.

And we all know the main reason why and the people on that podcast totally had the reaction the writers intended:

"We don't need Emma, get rid of Emma, just give the whole show over to Regina already, she gets things done!"  

Edited May 6, 2016 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

Except Regina's been useless as well. Emma saved Robin in Camelot when Regina couldn't. She was also smart enough to know Regina's tears were useless so instead she broke Henry's heart and that was able to get Merlin out. If that fuckboy Arthur didn't hurt Killian with the sword she would've been home, safe and the dark curse broken. Can we even fault her being useless their? But other the that they've made them all useless because they need the villains to win one of for Rumple to show his ass out one more time so she gets duped but she wasn't the only one. Regina, nor did the Charmings see Rumples betrayal coming. With Hades only Hook objected to it and I'm sure if it wasn't to get Hook out Emma would've object to trusting Hades.

[Mathius]

In 5B, yeah, Regina hasn't been all that useful (and recently was an outright liability when it came to Zelena/Hades), and the podcasters actually complained about that too but didn't really bash Regina herself the way they do Emma, because Regina has accumulated more good will with them for being useful in previous arcs while Emma wasn't.  I agree that Emma wasn't so bad in Camelot (before she became "Dark Swan"), but even then these people were bashing her for being "whiny and emo" about her darkness and fears of the future, and actually praised Regina for using the dagger to force Emma to share her feelings, bashing Hook and her family for stopping it because "it was working" and "Regina gets it".  And unfortunately, this is exactly the reaction the writers wanted people to have, since they have outright said in the episode commentary that what Regina was doing was the right thing.  We may not fall for it, but sadly, many other people do.

And the writers have done Emma a great disservice by either not allowing her to be a part of the conclusion to the arc's main conflict (3B and 4A), or part of it in an extremely untriumphant, backhanded way (4B and 5A).  If she's supposed to be the show's heroine, then they should let her actually have the victories a show's heroine is supposed to have, rather than giving them to other characters (usually Regina).

Edited May 8, 2016 by Mathius

[KAOS Agent]

I get frustrated by the writers consistently refusing to let Emma have the win, but then they so often solve things with random items rather than actual strategy that I don't give much credit to the ones who do get the win. Does it make Belle super awesome that a glove fell off a shelf and she stopped Rumpel? How awesome is Anna for tripping over a bottle containing a letter that changed Ingrid's mind and made her commit suicide rather than murder? Last second resolutions don't do anything to change my mind about the usefulness (or lack there of) of a certain character because they didn't do anything other than stumble upon an item (sometimes literally) that solves the problem.

On the flip side, there is the story that is being told prior to the random item being found/used and that's where Emma comes in. She's the one racking up all the assists while others do the scoring. Emma was the one who got everyone to stop fighting on the Jolly Roger and told them all to shut up and work together to save Henry in Neverland. Emma sacrificed her very good & happy life in New York which set off a chain of events that led to Regina pulling white magic out of her ass. Emma went to the Underworld and a bunch of people came with her which led to a ton of people resolving their issues and moving on, and I suspect that more will move on before the arc is over, including those in the River of Lost Souls. Let's not forget that she also saved Robin's life (5A), saved Hook's life (3B), saved Hook from Hades' torture (5B), freed Merlin from the tree (5A), found Lily and reunited her with Maleficent (4B), somehow managed to restrain herself from killing Merida (I know that this isn't really a win or a positive, but it says something that she didn't kill that annoying harridan) and saved the town and potentially the world from the Darkness (4B). Regardless of the writers constantly pulling the rug out from under Emma in the name of drama, she still has a pretty big impact on the story leading up to its often contrived conclusion.

Edited May 8, 2016 by KAOS Agent
I do know the difference between it's and its

[Rumsy4]

Well said, KAOS. Even though Emma doesn't get many of the climactic moments in arcs, she tends to stack up a lot of wins leading up to it. Characters like Regina get sole credit even when they were merely part of a team (Snow crediting Regina when everyone returned grom Neverland; Emma crediting Regina for freeing the fairies from the Hat, etc.). It's mind-boggling.

[PixiePaws1]

On Monday, May 02, 2016 at 1:48 PM, KingOfHearts said:

 

deleted

41 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Well said, KAOS. Even though Emma doesn't get many of the climactic moments in arcs, she tends to stack up a lot of wins leading up to it. Characters like Regina get sole credit even when they were merely part of a team (Snow crediting Regina when everyone returned grom Neverland; Emma crediting Regina for freeing the fairies from the Hat, etc.). It's mind-boggling.

Isn't wonderful that she has supportive True Love Killian (because Henry turns on her in defense of Regina quite a lot) to give her kudos and hugs..

[mjgchick]

Remember when Emma and Snow came back home and that banner someone made where Mary Margarete's was in app caps and Emma's was the size of an ant? lol Like they couldn't have just wrote "Snow" the same size as Emma's, you know the woman who single handily saved their asses from being controlled by Regina? lol That's how it feels like being an Emma fan. The small graphics of her name on the banner is the little crumbs we get when we want  a win for her. That's one of the reasons why I'm mad that she didn't get that win by saving Hook. The other is that Hook had to watch her leave him and well he's freaking dead.

Edited May 8, 2016 by mjgchick

[YaddaYadda]

That banner is the same one they used back in season 1 when they threw Mary Margaret the "we're glad you're out of prison" party in her loft.

They just added Emma's name to it.

[daxx]

To be fair it was the same banner from the party after Mary Margaret was released from the murder charges they just added Emma's name to it for the party when they returned from the team princess adventure.

[Camera One]

That's hilarious.  I'd love to see the convo where they decided not to waste their time on a new sign.  

[mjgchick]

OK that makes it even more hilarious.

[Mathius]

FINALLY Emma gets to contribute, first by creating the distraction that allows Regina and Robin to get into the mayor's office, and then more importantly by giving Zelena the pages that show her that the crystal has the ability to kill Hades; she wouldn't have thought to stab him with it otherwise since she was convinced as a god, he was invincible.  Hook and Regina also contributed.  Poor Robin just died, though.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

Emma has always contributed though. She's like the center in hockey on this show. She sets up the other players with the passes, and they score the goals.

Hook was the catalyst for what happened, and how this thing ended. He went looking for the pages, and the books, and he had a pretty good "back up". Arthur knows how to relinquish leadership, it seems. I loved how even worlds apart, they teamed up, and got their hands dirty.

Emma though, her walls shot up pretty quickly in this episode, the armour was back on. I can't really blame her. Nothing went as she had imagined it would. 

I have to say that watching her look around before she opened the story book to the page where she and Hook were at the ball was really sad. 

[profdanglais]

1 minute ago, YaddaYadda said:

I have to say that watching her look around before she opened the story book to the page where she and Hook were at the ball was really sad. 

And the way she stroked his picture was heartbreaking. I also loved that she had that page bookmarked. 

[YaddaYadda]

4 minutes ago, profdanglais said:

And the way she stroked his picture was heartbreaking. I also loved that she had that page bookmarked. 

Probably because she kept looking at it. 

This must have been a really exhausting season for JMo. Poor girl did a lot of crying.

[InsertWordHere]

55 minutes ago, Mathius said:

FINALLY Emma gets to contribute, first by creating the distraction that allows Regina and Robin to get into the mayor's office, and then more importantly by giving Zelena the pages that show her that the crystal has the ability to kill Hades

I'm not disagreeing, but what happened to Emma after the Zelena confrontation? She just disappeared. 

[Mari]

4 minutes ago, CTrent29 said:

his is nothing in compare with the crap writing that has been dumped on Emma over the years.  Every crappy decision she had made or crime she has committed has either been minimized or shoved aside by the show's writers . . . and many of the fans.  As I had called her on another thread, she's the Teflon Swan.

What significant evil has Emma committed that hasn't been addressed?  I realize she's not perfect, but am not sure what you are referring to. 

She's been to jail, she's changed her behavior, she's apologize to many people . . . . What things seem to be sticking out that have been ignored, that other characters and/or fans should take seriously?

[InsertWordHere]

Yes, I am wondering this myself.

She is the only criminal on this show who has actually served time (unless we count Rumple but I think it was implied he allowed Snow and Charming to imprison him). She's killed only in self defense/defense of her child. She hasn't raped anyone. She hasn't framed anyone for murder. She did bad things as the Dark One but she actually was cursed. Of the five known Dark Ones (not counting the boar!), she certainly seems to have committed the least foul acts, although in fairness we don't know that much about Zoso. Her actions while she was the Dark One have not been whitewashed IMO. They even mentioned her taking Violet's heart this episode, and the 5A finale was all about the horrible thing she did to Hook, first in saving him against his wishes and then in lying to him about Excalibur.

When the known villains get off scot-free all the time, why would Emma, who is not a villain, be expected to get taken to task for her relatively small mistakes?

[RulerofallIsurvey]

From the Wishing on a star thread - 

YaddaYadda said:

Quote

Letting her walls down doesn't mean she has to take crap from people who call themselves her "friend". Emma took a lot of abuse this season. It was too much.

^^This right here.  When I started watching OUAT when it debuted, I instantly liked Emma - because she didn't take shit from anybody.  This was before Hook was on the show, and since back then I didn't keep up with spoilers, before I even knew there would be Hook on the show.  Now, I really like Hook - and mostly it's because he doesn't really take shit from anybody.  So what the hell happened to Emma?  Can there be only one bad-ass in a relationship?  Because I personally think it would be incredible to see both Emma and Killian kicking ass and not bothering to take names - and not taking shit from anyone.  Including her 'best friend' and son.

[PixiePaws1]

19 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

  e Wishing on a star thread - 

YaddaYa dda said:

^^This right here.  When I started watching OUAT when it debuted, I instantly liked Emma - because she didn't take shit from anybody.  This was before Hook was on the show, and since back then I didn't keep up with spoilers, before I even knew there would be Hook on the show.  Now, I really like Hook - and mostly it's because he doesn't really take shit from anybody.  So what the hell happened to Emma?  Can there be only one bad-ass in a relationship?  Because I personally think it would be incredible to see both Emma and Killian kicking ass and not bothering to take names - and not taking shit from anyone.  Including her 'best friend' and son.

Yes! i actually thought we got to see a little of s1 Emma in the finale what with retriving Henry's laptop history etc

Since the Tallahassee ep when I really saw the CS end game being telegraphed i was absoluely bummed that SB is too small for Emma to make a living as a bailbondsperson because I would watch an entire series of kickass cunning in True Love CS taking down perps .....I know she's the law (when she actually is in town!) ..but the idea of all the sneaky ways and the fun and the snarking as they edge their way around the law ...well...i'd be so there for that...

[mjgchick]

They should have Emma and Hook (or Emma and anyone not Regina and Henry honestly.) head to a LWoM where she has to find someone and we get to see her in her element without someone being an asshole towards her. I could've loved that Emma/Regina road trip honestly without the hostility. 

 

Have her head to New Orleans and meet the Princess who owns a restaurant with her lazy ass husband.

[justmythoughts]

I havent found a topic for baby Charmings (refuse to say his name), and as my question is related to Emma... Sorry if you guys have discussed this, too many pages to read, too little time.

Emma is the product if true love, apparently a strong and pure true love, special. Given the same parents, is baby Charmings also a future powerful magician, wizard, whatever? Will he have the same special blood, aura, gift, karma as Emma? Is he a potential savior?

What do you think? Or the eggnapping nonsense is part of how magical and special Emma is?

[YaddaYadda]

For me, they never really explained anything about why Emma is the Savior in the first place. Was she prophecized? Did the dark curse scroll say something about how the curse would be broken because there would be a Savior, and Rumple with his visions zeroed in on Snowing because he knew they would be her parents?

There are just so many holes in who Emma is. We still don't know what makes her more special than Do Over, Aurora and Phil's baby, or little Alexandra, because all these kids were born out of true love.

Of course, Savior + 3 month whirlwind romance = The heart of the truest idiot.

So really, who knows. The writers will decide what Do Over is if they ever need him to be more than a drooling (he was kind of cute in 5x21 though) little baby.

[justmythoughts]

If I recall correctly it seems that the potion Rumple made out of Snow and Charmings hairs - the true love potion - was the one he used a portion, hidden from EQ, in the dark curse. So that baby Emma, the product of that love would be the savior, and he could persue Baelfire. 

So everytime anyone (like Pan) used the same curse, bam here we have the savior! But in all the other realms, moments, problems... And don't see why she is still the savior.

As well as for a moment they were trying the "Emma has such a powerfull magic in her". Sure, no training, no control... I would like to see that plot developed more.

But if she is powerful because if that, is that cute Charmings baby as well? Could he be the saviot if anyone uses EQ dark curse again?

A&E must give us better answers... Well, who am I kidding? They can barely keep dialogs nowadays among those people, let alone really explaining something...

[Rumsy4]

Every time the Curse has been rebooted, the writers have specified that Emma is not the savior for that iteration. That's why Regina had to reverse the Dark Curse when Pan cast it, and she couldn't break the Dark Curse iteration that Snow cast. So, it is unclear why Emma is still considered a "savior" when the title doesn't confer anything on her.

[Curio]

At this point, I consider Emma a "Savior" the same way people can consider firefighters "saviors" or activists who fight for social justice as "saviors." It's just in Emma's DNA to want to help people, which is probably why she was drawn to taking the Sheriff's position in the first place. Snow doing some weird magical thing to her as an infant doesn't change any of that in my opinion.