Speculation: So Red's Her Father, Right?

[mad_typist]

I can't decide if NBC thinks we're stupid and don't know that Red Reddington is clearly Elizabeth's father, or if NBC is brilliant and knows that we think that, and it's NOT what's going on, and this is all some awesome long con where the real secret is something amazing.

Thoughts? Is he, or isn't he? Which answer would make you happiest?

I personally am praying that he's not her father, and there's some other way more compelling reason for his obsession with her. It hasn't helped that the show hasn't been very consistent. In one early episode, Elizabeth profiles Red and states that "he needs her more than he likes", but it felt like a show-not-tell moment, since I didn't really get the sense that he really needed her that badly at all. But then in future episodes he DOES show weird emotion in her direction, which was also confusing if he isn't her father. At this point, I feel like it's been so built up that I might be disappointed no matter what the show runners come up with.

As a side note, I'm two episodes behind, so I hope this hasn't been answered already.

[Lisin]

I remember reading an interview with the showrunner early on and he swore up and down that Red was NOT the father... however I also remember JJ swearing that the people on LOST weren't dead the whole time so who knows. 

As for preferences, I am with you. I don't want him to be the father, but maybe was friends with him and swore to watch over her or something? I don't know. I just don't want to go six seasons and then find out he's been her father the whole time. If he is her dad I'd rather they do that reveal early. Then it can be about her dealing with it and maybe having to keep it secret or something.

[mad_typist]

Agreed - if he's her father, they should definitely rip that bandaid off now and just say so. I don't want the show to change the narrative because we've all guessed the "twist". That leads to long term problems if you shift the plot and try to retcon your story to fit the new twist you've come up with. Just say, "Good job guessing, everyone! You are perceptive and clever people, so we'll let you feel good about guessing our surprise, and just move on now."

[Lisin]

Exactly! Or, if you're married to the narrative playing out in the way you had originally planned just don't respond to the question. Don't out and out lie, and don't change because people guessed, for example "Is Red the father?" "Well, we'll just have to see won't we?" sure it's annoying, but it's way less annoying than either alternative! 

[Luisa]

I think the problem (if there is one) is that Red is purposefully written with a fatherly attitude towards her, so, no matter what his real not-father relationship is with her, it's always going to be a little weird. (Not to mention the vague sexual tension, but I feel like if you put James Spader in a room with four white walls, he would have vague sexual tension with one of the walls).

My crackpot theory is that maybe his daughter got pregnant super young and Liz is his granddaughter. But the fact that he's looking so hard for Jolene makes me think she's his daughter? I don't know. I have this terrible feeling we're all going to be a little disappointed no matter what they do.

[Sheena]

(Not to mention the vague sexual tension, but I feel like if you put James Spader in a room with four white walls, he would have vague sexual tension with one of the walls).

That is just plain silly- he'd clearly have sexual tension with at least two of the walls, be loved from afar by the ceiling with a piece of floor action on the side. But we'd all know that, in the end, he'd end up realizing that his soul mate was atop his head the whole time. ;)

[Sheena]

That ending was pretty darned sweet. And shows us what Elizabeth would look like with a shorter haircut. But mostly it was very sweet.

The bit with Red, that is, not the hacker with terrifying entitlement issues regarding women. To me, that was the freakiest villain yet, and he wasn't even a Blacklister...

This was episode 17, right? So we still have five more to go?

[Caroline]

I think they've made it clear that Red doesn't know what happened to his family, which sort of means Elizabeth can't be his daughter. She's also asked him, he said 'No'. And in the latest episode ("Ivan") he told her he's never lied to her. There's also one of the episode's 'Beyond the Blacklist' videos where the matter is discussed and both cast and crew say 'we've now answered the question'.

Edited March 28, 2014 by eachman

[pcta]

My theory (admittedly built on nothing concrete) is that he was fond of her mother and that is why he feels so close to her.

[mad_typist]

My current theory is that he's obsessed with her because he knows her real father. If we assume he's been following her life/career as a favor to her bio-dad (or mom), then it makes sense that he feels he understands her character. Since the incident with the mole, where he was briefly on the run, I got the sense that he's super paranoid (for good reason). I think having someone he can deal with who is transparent and fairly predictable is a real asset to Red.

[Caroline]

Super paranoid and super broken. He might be trying to rebuild and redeem himself through Liz. "If anyone can give me a second chance, it's you." She has to be the key to some grand conspiracy which he's trying to uncover and in the meantime, he can protect her like he couldn't protect his own family.

[nutty1]

Maybe she is his illegitimate child….not from the family he lost, but from the true love of his life.

Then again, I think it is too obvious for him to be her father. 

[Caroline]

Yes, she knows he adopted her.

[fauxphysician]

Way back when-- I think it was the "Stewmaker" episode ( Liz is being held captive and Redd dumps the villain into a tub of acid)-- he sneaks a picture of a woman  from the villain's scrapbook and stares at it longingly. No reference to her has been made since (no surprise given this Show's treatment of plot points!), but I've often wondered if she was Redd's lost love and Liz' Mother?  Any thoughts/insights?

  This is another Show that I hate-watch. It makes "The Following's" plotting and depiction of the FBI look stellar

[WasntMe]

I agree that he's answered that he's not the father, if it turns out that he is, that will suck, because it's one thing for the show to try to trick us, it's another for the show to lie to us. 

Adoptive father knew Red, and knew the connection to Red, obvi.  And there's a fire in Liz's past...

Didn't something involving an explosion happen to Red's family? Or am I crossing that with him burning down the house later on? 

[tw2222]

Red can still be a relative of her, or perhaps have had her under his care at some point. She is seemingly collateral for someone in Red's past that needs to be monitored and controlled, but not killed. My guess is she serves a purpose to the organizations involved in her life and that her position as a g-man makes her valuable. She is an asset for at least two oganizations: Alan Aldas organization, and Berlin. Red knows Alda's org, but not Berlin.

[NorCalNut]

Red and Lizzie were amazing in the hotel scenes. They have to be father/daughter, they just have to be! They were in sync and in control and bad asses.  I loved her face when Craig jumped out the window.  Very good episode.  Also loved Ressler and his "give no fucks about anything attitude"

[VeritasHurts]

Like WasntMe, I think the childhood fire (and Liz's scar) is an important clue. Red may have been instrumental as a cause of the fire.  If Liz was the only survivor, Red (in his twisted honor-among-thieves morality) may feel responsible for Liz's well-being.  They aren't father and daughter although he clearly is paternal toward her.

The writers need to speed this "thing" up, however.

[SilverPoet]

I don't think he's her father - I'm going to hang my hat on the fact that he said he had never lied to her.  Additionally, we've seen how loyal Red can be to those that he truly cares about in the form of those that he keeps closest to him, so I think there's something much greater going on here.  At least, I hope so.   They could always play the card that he never did lie because he never really had a chance to BE her father, but that doesn't fit because he is visiting places and mourning his family in a way that doesn't seem connected to Lizzy.  

[fabaa]

I got gay vibes from Red (I dont remember him being with someone.. Im not really giving the show my full attention). Maybe he was Liz's biological father partner?

I'm hoping TPTB will find a better explanation than the obvious answer.

Edited April 5, 2014 by fabaa

[sparkleandshine]

I think she's his niece.  That would explain why he's so paternal towards her and would mean he didn't lie to her.  Simple and not a great twist but that's my theory.

[Tigris Tv]

I'm going with three theories.  Improves my success of being right.

First, that he is her biological father, and that he said he wasn't (with a pause before he said it) because he had just told her adoptive father that "you will always be her father" and therefore is using father to mean the person that raised you. 

Second, he is her uncle, and her parents were killed as a revenge act on Red (targeting his family) and therefore he had to get her safe and also not knowing who she was.  Also, if he is her real fathers brother then maybe they had learned that thing of playing the song and saying everything will be ok from their childhood.  That would explain his connection to the song and the coincidence and not wanting to tell her who he is, and knowing the adoptive parent.  A lot of this would work for the Father theory too.

Third, he was responsible for the killing of her family and her injury and he felt bad and put her with her adoptive family, OR she is still a pawn and he is still after whoever she really is related to and is keeping her close and safe so that he can use her when the time comes.  This could explain that Tom et al. are on her real families side and they have been sent to protect her and keep her from Red (like getting her to quit her job by making it put pressure on the marriage) and would explain why Tom said he could have killed Red at the hospital, (but it wasn't his mission) in other words his mission is not JUST to get to Red but to also get to LIzzie and in a way protect her.  oooh, I like this idea too.  Maybe the Berlin group has Red's family somewhere and Red plans to use her as a bargaining chip but is still trying to keep her existence low profile... Though, I guess if they knew who she was, why wouldn't they already "save" her, maybe they don't know for sure it's her?  Or they want to lead him into a trap.  I like this theory the best now I think.  Wouldn't explain him knowing the music box thing, but maybe that was damaged in the fire or attack and he's had it since then, and maybe he's trying to keep her confused and bonded to him so if things go bad she might hesitate.

[Gregg247]

I think Red's family was killed /taken by Lizzie's real father.  Red tracked him down and killed him and his wife (the big house fire Lizzie vaguely remembers).  He didn't know the guy had a daughter in the home, so Red ran back in and saved her.  He felt bad that he'd just done to her (killed her family) that her father had done to him (killed his family), so he took her and gave her to his friend, Sam, a solid family man, to raise as his own.  Red sees himself and Lizzie as kindred spirits, and joined together by loss and revenge.

[WasntMe]

I got gay vibes from Red (I dont remember him being with someone.. Im not really giving the show my full attention). Maybe he was Liz's biological father partner?

I'm hoping TPTB will find a better explanation than the obvious answer.

 

There was the lady Blacklist-er that he had a relationship with- I don't remember her name, but they were definitely together at some point.

[Julia]

and, not that this means anything about his being interested in men, he did have a wife and daughter at one point.

[mccannc]

Even though Red has blantantly lied at this point, he is Keen's father.  The burn scars show us that.  So I am sure he will say something about how he didnt't lie because he changed that day and was no longer her father.  My guess is the fire wasn't an accident. 

 

Therefore, with the mother already dead Red realizes he can no longer protect his daughter.  He takes her to his friend Sam and he raises her. 

 

Berlin carries a picture of his daughter and is seeking revenge for her.  Red has a picture at the end of the same girl I do believe  Why would he have her picture and Berlin be after him?  Berlin's daughter was Keen's mother/Red's wife.

 

They said what got her into trouble in the first place was falling in love with someone.  That someone was Red.  This explains why Berlin is after him and why he is so protective of Keen. 

 

I think this covers all bases and is probably already listed somewhere else but let me know what you think.

[Birdee]

That's pretty much the theory I came up with too. But I'm not happy with it. I really didn't want him to be her father. I wanted to be wowed at the twist the show would throw us. Alas, it was not meant to be...

[Tigris Tv]

It is very likely that Red is the father.  like 90%.  Nothing he really has said goes against it (even the, "I'm not your father", as it was shown that he considers Sam as Lizzie's father "and you always will be", and that to him it's not biology but rearing).  So yes, all the clues go in that direction.

 

For the fun of it, I still want to explore the idea that he is the one who killed that family, and had a change of heart and saved her.  That her only memory of "her father" is in fact of Red - but not because he's her father saving her, but because he was there to kill her and her family and changed his mind.  If that makes sense. 

 

I think Berlin could still be Lizzie's real father or uncle or something. 

 

But it would not bother me if Red was her father.  They have made it a fairly obvious type of thing, and so really it doesn't feel like they are trying to hide it.  So I'm happy to go on with Who Is Berlin as the real plot behind the show.  Or really, Who Is Red and why is he so important?  The point about Lizzie to me has just been as a means to get to/at him; so her relationship with him is less important than Red's relationship with Berlin. 

[mccannc]

I don't think Berlin could be her father as the ages don't seem to match up.  They were talking about his daughter falling in love back before he was put in prison. 

Edited May 17, 2014 by mccannc

[roughing it]

Well whoever is Keen's father, I hope they wrap it up fairly quickly and not drag on like the Red John thing on the Mentalist. If they don't wrap it up soon I'm going to lose interest fast.

[kaygeeret]

You are all much kinder than I regarding this show.

 

I find the plotting inconsistent and pretty dumb overall.  The writing is beyond poor.

The only character with any development at all is Tom - and now I like him as he is interesting.

Lizzie's character is inconsistent - one minute POW!, BAM!, the next minute she can't cross the street without Red.  She hasn't handled any of the so called 'puzzles' in her life with anything approaching logic, or even normal emotion.  This is the fault of the show runner and the writers, not the actor.  What is the actor's fault is the wooden not to say leaden delivery of any and all lines.

 

As for "who's the daddy" - geesh - what a bore this so called 'mystery' is.  It has been built up to be a portentious really, really big deal, when we all know it is easily solved with a readily available (they are FBI aren't they) paternity test.  She is not curious enough to come up with that?  For me the reason that this so called 'mystery' is boring and has no weight is because it changes nothing for her or the show.  It doesn't matter why he is so fixated on her for me, so what? The plotting and writing about this have left me bored to tears!  The show has been SO obvious that they want us to think he is 'daddy', they have dropped "clues" with a thud all over the place.  Why be so obvious with what was surely intended to be a central mystery and plot point?  No matter how they solve it now, someone will be ticked off.

 

In contrast Red John - which did for sure go on too long - was a known bad guy, who did despicable things and everyone could be united in catching and bringing him down.  You could build a couple of episodes a season around him and then get on to other things.  The whole plot line got old tho'.

 

I am watching this for Spader and even with him I am rapidly losing any interest in what happens - as a viewer I need to be invested in more than one character and the actor who plays the part.

[Heatsja]

What do we know about Red's real family?  They died?  Or he abandoned them?  I can't remember.

[kaygeeret]

At this point I really don't care if he is daddy or not - it isn't really relevant to much of anything. OK, that may be the reason why he has this completely irrational interest in a not very bright gal, but what impact other than that I fail to see. I guess they needed a reason to make him demand to work with her? Whatever

[Skyline]

The daddy storyline needs to be resolved this season. They can't drag it out much longer.

[kaygeeret]

The daddy storyline needs to be resolved this season. They can't drag it out much longer

 

Sadly Skyline, I didn't think they could keep that weak "plot line" going all season long!  While they certainly didn't keep the story interesting, relevant or even remotely mysterious, they kept it going...and going...and going.

 

Nothing is too ludicrous for this writing team.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My theory (admittedly built on nothing concrete) is that he was fond of her mother and that is why he feels so close to her.

Third, he was responsible for the killing of her family and her injury and he felt bad

So Lizzie is either Harry Potter or Alexandra Udinov?

[Literata]

 

I think Red's family was killed /taken by Lizzie's real father.  Red tracked him down and killed him and his wife (the big house fire Lizzie vaguely remembers).  He didn't know the guy had a daughter in the home, so Red ran back in and saved her.  He felt bad that he'd just done to her (killed her family) that her father had done to him (killed his family), so he took her and gave her to his friend, Sam, a solid family man, to raise as his own.  Red sees himself and Lizzie as kindred spirits, and joined together by loss and revenge.

This all makes sense, but I still think the wild card is Lizzie's mom. Red's tie to Lizzie has to have something to do with Mystery Mom.

[Literata]

I've been doing a lot of reading this summer, pathetic fangirl that I am, and Red definitely is NOT Liz's dad. Having gone back and watched the episodes again as well, and read hints from Megan Boone and Spader, we have a big ol' mess of a love story on our hands. I'm predicting a Liz-Ressler-Red love triangle, and Tom may still be in there as well.

 

No doubt Megan Boone eventually will get to have love scenes with Spader. Sigh. 

[kaygeeret]

Oh good lord Literata, if that happens I am out in spite of Spader and Tom.

 

Makes no sense on any level as she sort of looks to him as a father figure - NOT her father.  I never bought into that MacGuffin.  It was too obvious and they flogged it to death.

 

Still, I couldn't stand to see that relationship, such as it is, turned into a love story.  Gag me with a spoon as pretty much no one ever said.

[formerlyfreedom]

The big question, obviously - "Is Red actually Lizzie's Dad?"

 

But all other speculation can be discussed here as well...

[Happytobehere]

I've been doing a lot of reading this summer, pathetic fangirl that I am, and Red definitely is NOT Liz's dad. Having gone back and watched the episodes again as well, and read hints from Megan Boone and Spader, we have a big ol' mess of a love story on our hands. I'm predicting a Liz-Ressler-Red love triangle, and Tom may still be in there as well.

 

No doubt Megan Boone eventually will get to have love scenes with Spader. Sigh.

PLEASE NO! Not to Red not being Lizzie's dad but anything romantic happening between the two. Although such a move would definitely eliminate the daddy speculation (cause they could never go done the incest route!), it might literally cause me to throw up in my mouth.

[Skyline]

Yep. Lierata is correct. The official NBC tumblr uses the

"Lizzington" tag. Liz and Red are the OTP.

[kaygeeret]

Sadly for me, I don't know what OTP means - - someone please help?

[formerlyfreedom]

One True Pairing, is my understanding, @kaygeeret ...

[kaygeeret]

Thank you stacey.

 

What an awful turn of events.  I plan on watching to confirm the rumors so far - altho' Skyline's info seems awfully definative - and then decide on future viewing plans.

[Skyline]

http://www.redandlizzie.tumblr.com/post/92159099688/red-is-not-lizs-biological-father-updated-evidence

A Tumblr link

[kaygeeret]

Wow Skyline, sure seems to be true.  Bleech is all I can say.

 

Megan's acting is not up to Spader's, so selfishly I don't want a connection, but far more important to the story, the character of Keen is so childish and poorly written, the character of Red wouldn't have much interest in her - beyond a father figure trying to give her skills and insight to be outstanding at her job and so once again I say Bleech!

 

All my opinion of course.

 

I blame the show runners!

 

Just occurred to me - -how great would a terrific actor like Bacall have been in the Keen role!  Talk about sparks!!! Yikes, my tv would explode.

[Julia]

That's the (other) problem with the Lizzie character. Everyone keeps telling us how brilliant and promising and compelling she is, and leaving aside the acting, a big chunk of the plot for the first season rested on her being dumb as a box of rocks and skipping away from her job whenever her feefees got dinged. Even if the actress didn't play her as affectless, sulky and dim, she'd be a waste of screen time.

[Skyline]

Hey, at least we have a heads up at what's coming. The majority of viewers are going to be like wtf!!

I should have known. Hannibal and Clarice fall in love in the books.

[kaygeeret]

I may be the only person on earth who avoided the entire Hannibal craze as it creeped me out.  Now to find this rotten show is copying that plotline and forcing me to miss my guy Spader makes me hate* the creators/developers/showrunners - call them what you will - even more than I already do.

 

*I mean this metaphorically and refer to the product not the people.