Lifetime's VC Andrews Movies Topic (Flowers In The Attic, The Dollangangers, The Casteels, etc) - General Discussion

[Scarlett45]

24 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Wow, the girl playing Corrine really does look like a young Heather Graham!

LOVED Nella calling Olivia out on being a Karen. 

She looks a lot like the actress who played Alicia as well. 

I liked that Alicia did try to take control of her fate- but Nella was right, she was trapped. At that point she had to do what was best for her and Christopher, so often women did what they had to do.

I did think the convo between Olivia and Corinne was a touch inappropriate. (Although the theme made sense) Who asks their mom when was the last time they had sex? BOUNDARIES. The convo with Mal was more realistic.

[Spartan Girl]

It is SO WEIRD seeing Olivia be such a loving progressive mother to Corrine knowing how things wind up. I can’t reconcile her with the victim blaming and slut shaming bitch of FITA…

Boy, if only Corrine had just run off with one of those other boys that weren’t related to her, things would have been so different.

Please don’t let that guy Olivia’s son is flirting with be his half-brother….

[Scarlett45]

13 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Please don’t let that guy Olivia’s son is flirting with be his half-brother….

I don’t think so. I think Joel just has the hots for him. It’s confirmed he’s Cecilia’s step son, (not bio son which would’ve made him Joel’s nephew) so no blood relation. 

13 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

It is SO WEIRD seeing Olivia be such a loving progressive mother to Corrine knowing how things wind up. I can’t reconcile her with the victim blaming and slut shaming bitch of FITA…

Plenty of wealthy teenage girls terminated their pregnancies in the 1930s- I’m surprised she took her there, rather than to a more upscale location. But perhaps she could not risk it getting back to Malcolm. 

I loved how Malcolm called Olivia a “filthy whore”- a woman doing something you don’t like doesn’t make her a whore Malcolm. I was kind of surprised Malcolm was so mad at them. I couldn’t see him wanting Corinne to have a baby at 16, I would’ve assumed he would be all for it. Not as if they can pretend Olivia is pregnant again!(that happened a lot too)

[TattleTeeny]

Help—what am I missing? Why are they acting like society at large wouldn’t believe that  Alicia’s baby could be Garland’s? 

[Scarlett45]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:39 PM, TattleTeeny said:

Help—what am I missing? Why are they acting like society at large wouldn’t believe that  Alicia’s baby could be Garland’s? 

Garland had been dead far too long by the time Corinne was conceived. People could do the math by the time the baby was born. 

[TattleTeeny]

TY—I was just coming back to say never mind; our power went out and the DVR missed the beginning, and I completely forgot that so much time had passed.

Edited July 17, 2022 by TattleTeeny

[Scarlett45]

Poor Mal. I can see the family starting to fracture. 
 

And next week is going to be AMAZING!

[Spartan Girl]

Never mix your pot with your poison.

So that’s probably why Olivia started to hate Corrine, even though the whole thing is really Malcom’s fault, coming on to his son’s bride on their damn wedding. Corrine really should’ve more poison.

Some are already griping about how much is different from the book, but since I never read it, I couldn’t care less. Bring on next week.

[Scarlett45]

What I like, is although Corinne is clearly Malcolm’s “favorite”- he treats her like crap too, and she’s well aware he’s an awful person. 
 

I also liked the relationship between the siblings. They seemed to band together and know the score about their Dad. Based on the preview for next week, Malcolm is going to discover Joel with his lover and send him away for “treatment”. More fractures within the family. 

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Never mix your pot with your poison.

So that’s probably why Olivia started to hate Corrine, even though the whole thing is really Malcom’s fault, coming on to his son’s bride on their damn wedding. Corrine really should’ve more poison.

Some are already griping about how much is different from the book, but since I never read it, I couldn’t care less. Bring on next week.

I can see Olivia being over come with grief losing Mal, and feeling that god took her son for xyz reason. 
 

I do think this exchange gave us insight into Corinne’s character. Malcolm has an entire list of enemies- so yeah anyone could’ve poisoned him for good reason. But Corinne did it so she could go to PARTY. For the record, Malcolm is a piece of shit, forever and ever amen, but given what we know about the woman Corinne turns out to be, are we surprised? Nope. 

[Kiki777]

I do like all the changes they have made from the book - it adds more layers to the characters, and the issue of poison with Olivia/Corinne is definitely foreshadowing what will happen later with Corinne poisoning her own kids.

On a shallow note, the guy playing Joel is super handsome - he reminds me of Matt Bomer 💕 

[Scarlett45]

22 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

I do like all the changes they have made from the book - it adds more layers to the characters, and the issue of poison with Olivia/Corinne is definitely foreshadowing what will happen later with Corinne poisoning her own kids.

On a shallow note, the guy playing Joel is super handsome - he reminds me of Matt Bomer 💕 

The actor playing Joel is quite handsome.

Edited to add- his name is Luke Fetherston, he is from the UK, and  he speaks here about being able to play the role of Joel as a gay man. 

[JAYJAY1979]

I always viewed Corrine as being born in the wrong era.  She was a lot like her dad with his ruthlessness...but because she was a girl, was taught to only rely on her looks.

Of the four Dollanganger kids, Cory seemed to be more like his grandmother Alicia...with his sweet gentle nature and not having the will to physically survive the Attic.

Cathy was vengeful/ruthless like Malcolm..and unlike Corrine, was more driven.

So far I like how the movie expands on the prequel.  

[Snow Apple]

That was a lot of drama and changes to take in. I'm still processing so I'll just post about 2 less dramatic observations I noticed.

Olivia's birthday present to Corrine reminds me of how Book Corrine always wear a pearl necklace with a butterfly clasp. Did the writers actually read the book and threw us an Easter Egg?

I didn't think Max Irons look like his father until he was in bed after the poisoning. There was a shot where he looked exactly like his dad.

[Scarlett45]

On 7/18/2022 at 6:24 AM, Snow Apple said:

That was a lot of drama and changes to take in. I'm still processing so I'll just post about 2 less dramatic observations I noticed.

Olivia's birthday present to Corrine reminds me of how Book Corrine always wear a pearl necklace with a butterfly clasp. Did the writers actually read the book and threw us an Easter Egg?

I didn't think Max Irons look like his father until he was in bed after the poisoning. There was a shot where he looked exactly like his dad.

Max Irons looks like his Dad from the nose down, he has his Mom's upper face. (he is younger obviously so his jaw is tighter, but that is Jeremy's jaw)

So you want to know something I always found funny. That chopping off a woman's hair makes her "ugly". Yes, healthy styled hair can do a lot, but no hair (or short hair) doesn't take a beautiful woman to "ugly". And the "chop" job Olivia gave Alicia was ridiculous- it looked the same, just as if she didn't comb it! They could've at least put the actress in a short wig like they did Kieran Shipka, in Flowers in the Attic (2014).

[qtpye]

On 7/16/2022 at 10:13 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Never mix your pot with your poison.

So that’s probably why Olivia started to hate Corrine, even though the whole thing is really Malcom’s fault, coming on to his son’s bride on their damn wedding. Corrine really should’ve more poison.

Some are already griping about how much is different from the book, but since I never read it, I couldn’t care less. Bring on next week.

Really?

Most people seem to actually like the changes from the book. They have actually made the characters more 3 dimensional.

[Spartan Girl]

11 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Really?

Most people seem to actually like the changes from the book. They have actually made the characters more 3 dimensional.

Saw one or two complaints on Twitter. But, of course, it’s Twitter so whaddaya gonna do? 🤷‍♀️

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Really?

Most people seem to actually like the changes from the book. They have actually made the characters more 3 dimensional.

i was honestly thinking imagine if this was the book! 
Like this is so great.

[CountryGirl]

I have enjoyed most of the changes they made, including the new characters like Nella, and fleshing out the relationships between the Foxworth siblings more vs props for Corinne. The background to her foreground.

My two annoyances are with the parental sex conversation and the Corinne pregnancy storyline. With the pregnancy, I just didn't feel it was necessary to the plot whatsoever and was thrown in to make it even more shocking. It's VC Andrews with incest and other questionable relationships and kids being locked in the attic and arsenic on powdered sugar donuts - it's all covered on the "shocking" front.  But turning the book conversation where Corinne asks Olivia if she was "just wild about him?" regarding Malcolm (well, yes, for the first few days of their relationship, sure) vs show Corinne point-blank talking to her mother about her sex life with father Malcolm. Just...no.

The twist where the additional attic access was a secret passageway from Malcolm's library/study was well done. So Olivia locking the door to the room wasn't going to stop him. 

We also start to see, with Alicia's pregnancy, and Olivia feeling sorry for her situation, especially that she, too, is a rape victim of Malcolm, that since she cannot really take out her feelings on Malcolm (except little digs like leaving the pile of Alicia's hair on his desk or having the secret passageway walled up), she's starting to turn on Alicia instead. I'm side-eyeing the little trim she gave Alicia which did absolutely nothing to detract from her beauty. It was not at all like the hack job she gave TV/film Cathy. 

I did have to call BS on the Alicia returns to the house part as there wasn't even any pretense of trying to hide her, what with the car coming up to the front of the house vs the book where she came in from the back (like her future grandchildren) and ushered up to the room via a back staircase. The servants would have known from the very beginning someone was in that room and likely whom very early on. The fake and real births were just laughably campy. 

Corinne being born and then a toddler and then an adult in about 3 minutes was a bit jarring, but I get there's not much story to tell with a young kid and at least we saw some of Olivia bonding with Chris Sr before Alicia's departure.

On a shallow note, Joel is very easy on the eyes. It's hard to take Mal seriously, even with his earnest mustache. I'm guessing there isn't even a decade in age difference between Max and Buck, but I'll handwave it.

I really liked the interactions between the siblings (even if Corinne shows that she's always been a stupid, selfish bitch when her poisoning of Malcolm led to Mal's death over a freaking party of all things) and fleshing out Mal and Joel with Mal having a money-hungry fiance and Joel having a forbidden relationship with Harry. I liked them showing Corinne's darker side when it seemed she went from being a doting mother to a vicious killer practically overnight in FITA. 

I'm really looking forward to next week and the arrival of Chris Sr. I always suspected she targeted him as a weapon to strike back at her parents', Malcolm, especially, and question if she ever truly loved him. I have a feeling I'll be proven right. 

[Daisy]

I had to laugh when Mal is all "I'll tell mom about Celia."
Malcom: I like this side of you.... OLIVIA!!!!!  that was just ruthless but it made me giggle so hard  It makes you think if Malcolm would have given up the trust early had Mal been like "so here's the tea."

I guess they really wanted to cement that Malcolm was a poophead. because the bride thing didn't happen (like 80% sure), but Mal dying first was (he drove his motorcycle off a cliff, and Malcolm was tres sad about it). this way was much more soapy/gothic though so i approve. I can't remember if Joel was gay or even hinted at it, but i like this too. 

Making Corrine pregnant - not good and I think it really weakens Olivia finding out about Corrine and Christopher later. (maybe they'll ramp it up or something) but I remember in the books they all thought Corrine was spoiled - but still an innocent lamb. Having her have a pregnancy and Olivia knowing she' sexually active now kinda is a whomp. whomp. 

the poison garden = bueno idea. it does show why poison is Corrin's choice and that she really doesn't think about the dosage or how much or anything like that. (and exactly how selfish she is. I mean forget what you feel about Malcolm for a moment. She legit almost killed her father so she could go party).

It was great casting because Corrine looks so much like Alicia and that she could grow into Heather Graham. 

and malcolm comes off smelling like a rose because no one knew about him + the wife, so of course Olivia is thinking :( me and the poison vs well he wouldn't have gotten high if he hadn't seen his dad sticking his tongue down his wife's to be throat. 

[toodywoody]

I'm actually digging this. So we saw how momma covered for Corinne. To me it shows how she and will become. Sacrificing her children so she can go on living her life, so she never changed because she was always selfish and always getting her way. If she had kept the baby, they probably would have locked her up the attic to give birth to another girl. Instead she got to continue to live her life because of the abortion. Then she got to continue to live her life after poisoning her dad, just to go to a party and now killing Mal. Olivia will take the blame and brunt of it, while Corinne goes on living her life. Then she will jump into bed with her bruncle and even though they get kicked out, she will go on living her life. Then when Chris Sr dies she makes a choice and is still selfish and gets to continue to live her life. 

This is just laying the groundwork for her and Olivia becoming the way they were.

And I'm all here for it.

[Kiki777]

1 hour ago, toodywoody said:

Then she will jump into bed with her bruncle and even though they get kicked out, she will go on living her life.

 Bruncle!!!! I’m cracking up over here - only in VCAndrews-land lol

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

I had to laugh when Mal is all "I'll tell mom about Celia."
Malcom: I like this side of you.... OLIVIA!!!!!  that was just ruthless but it made me giggle so hard  It makes you think if Malcolm would have given up the trust early had Mal been like "so here's the tea."

What I didn’t understand about that, was why did Mal think Olivia didn’t already know??? Cecilia is way older than all of them (old enough to be their mother biologically) and the community had whispered about it- even Corrine had heard. So what made him think his Mom would be clueless if the teenage baby of the family knew about it. 

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

the poison garden = bueno idea. it does show why poison is Corrin's choice and that she really doesn't think about the dosage or how much or anything like that. (and exactly how selfish she is. I mean forget what you feel about Malcolm for a moment. She legit almost killed her father so she could go party).

Yes. A PARTY. She could’ve done serious damage to him, or what if someone else took his glass???

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

Making Corrine pregnant - not good and I think it really weakens Olivia finding out about Corrine and Christopher later. (maybe they'll ramp it up or something) but I remember in the books they all thought Corrine was spoiled - but still an innocent lamb. Having her have a pregnancy and Olivia knowing she' sexually active now kinda is a whomp. whomp. 

I don’t know why Olivia would not take her to get fitted for a diaphragm. I don’t think she’s pregnant when she and Chris get kicked out, they are just mad because they know they are half siblings! So maybe Olivia does take her to get a diaphragm (or shit give her some condoms, both were available in the 1930s). 

4 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I'm really looking forward to next week and the arrival of Chris Sr. I always suspected she targeted him as a weapon to strike back at her parents', Malcolm, especially, and question if she ever truly loved him. I have a feeling I'll be proven right. 

I think she did love him- as much as Corinne was capable of loving anyone. Corinne was rich and gorgeous and young. Christopher didn’t have much to offer her besides being young and handsome himself. She could’ve had her pick of young men just as handsome/sexy who her parents would’ve approved of, and who could’ve kept her in the lifestyle she wanted. But I think she had actual feelings for Christopher, she probably wished she was as good a person as he was, or thought she was. I always said if Christopher saw how he treated their children he’d haunt her from the great beyond. 

[Daisy]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I always said if Christopher saw how he treated their children he’d haunt her from the great beyond. 

dead straight. Christopher happily gave up everything for their life and Corrine couldn't even last 6 months. She didn't even really try. It was just i'm too pretty to work, let me just make it damned easy for me, and when the cost was having "No children." She went, "Oh, okay." She only really seemed sad when she got caught (and in older age in If There Be Thorns). but to me that way way too late. 

[Scarlett45]

39 minutes ago, Daisy said:

dead straight. Christopher happily gave up everything for their life and Corrine couldn't even last 6 months. She didn't even really try. It was just i'm too pretty to work, let me just make it damned easy for me, and when the cost was having "No children." She went, "Oh, okay." She only really seemed sad when she got caught (and in older age in If There Be Thorns). but to me that way way too late. 

It wasn’t that she was too pretty to work. She locked them up and the POISONED THEM. That’s some real low down shit. She didn’t even try to find herself another rich husband. Instead she married Bart, who’s not “broke” but much younger and couldn’t really improve her position in life right away (Bart was successful and younger than her with stroked her ego). 
 

Corinne was only mad because she got caught, and was starting to face her mortality when all she had was her looks and those were fading (because if you live long enough you’ll get old).

Corinne was a morally weak person. I think under the guidance of better people- Christopher, or her brothers, she would’ve been okay. Vapid and silly but okay. Any “nudge” by evil and she would fall right in line. She was a follower unless it was about what she wanted. 

[Daisy]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

It wasn’t that she was too pretty to work. She locked them up and the POISONED THEM. That’s some real low down shit. She didn’t even try to find herself another rich husband. Instead she married Bart, who’s not “broke” but much younger and couldn’t really improve her position in life right away (Bart was successful and younger than her with stroked her ego). 
 

Corinne was only mad because she got caught, and was starting to face her mortality when all she had was her looks and those were fading (because if you live long enough you’ll get old).

Corinne was a morally weak person. I think under the guidance of better people- Christopher, or her brothers, she would’ve been okay. Vapid and silly but okay. Any “nudge” by evil and she would fall right in line. She was a follower unless it was about what she wanted. 

No, i mean before that. When they lived in Gladstone. she was basically all "do you want me to work at some dismal job?" like she didn't want to be a secretary or basically a waitress or anything. she thought i was beneath her.  that's when she started writing to Olivia etc and she thought that getting money from Dad would be easy street. 

[CountryGirl]

58 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

What I didn’t understand about that, was why did Mal think Olivia didn’t already know??? Cecilia is way older than all of them (old enough to be their mother biologically) and the community had whispered about it- even Corrine had heard. So what made him think his Mom would be clueless if the teenage baby of the family knew about it. 

Yes. A PARTY. She could’ve done serious damage to him, or what if someone else took his glass???

I don’t know why Olivia would not take her to get fitted for a diaphragm. I don’t think she’s pregnant when she and Chris get kicked out, they are just mad because they know they are half siblings! So maybe Olivia does take her to get a diaphragm (or shit give her some condoms, both were available in the 1930s). 

I think she did love him- as much as Corinne was capable of loving anyone. Corinne was rich and gorgeous and young. Christopher didn’t have much to offer her besides being young and handsome himself. She could’ve had her pick of young men just as handsome/sexy who her parents would’ve approved of, and who could’ve kept her in the lifestyle she wanted. But I think she had actual feelings for Christopher, she probably wished she was as good a person as he was, or thought she was. I always said if Christopher saw how he treated their children he’d haunt her from the great beyond. 

In a way, he did, through eldest son Christopher (Jr) and I remember how she mistook him for his father at the Christmas Party at the end of POTW, leading to a mental break. Of course, she could have been faking it, to avoid prison. But I do think those initial moments were genuine. So perhaps she truly loved him. But the lure of millions made that love pale in comparison. And her leaving behind his photograph and her wedding rings when she and Bart left FH.  Stone cold. 

[Kiki777]

I’m wondering now if Malcolm’s eventual death was ‘expedited’ by Corinne once she was certain she’d inherit from him - or if at least the series will be rewritten this way...

[JAYJAY1979]

I still remember in the FITA book at the start how Corrine pointed out to Cathy that while she looked like her...she wasn't anything like her.  How true that was

[Scarlett45]

9 hours ago, Daisy said:

No, i mean before that. When they lived in Gladstone. she was basically all "do you want me to work at some dismal job?" like she didn't want to be a secretary or basically a waitress or anything. she thought i was beneath her.  that's when she started writing to Olivia etc and she thought that getting money from Dad would be easy street. 

Oh yes I get what you mean now. Absolutely. Working was beneath her, but locking up her own children was not.

9 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

I’m wondering now if Malcolm’s eventual death was ‘expedited’ by Corinne once she was certain she’d inherit from him - or if at least the series will be rewritten this way...

OOO good idea! I could see that.

9 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

And her leaving behind his photograph and her wedding rings when she and Bart left FH.  Stone cold. 

Stone cold. She left her entire life and 3 children (Cory was dead by then right) behind, like a bad dream, to run off with Bart.

[Snow Apple]

I believe Corrine genuinely loved Christopher Sr. but part of it was that he indulged her. Sure they didn't live like Foxworth Hall, but they spent beyond their means and Christopher allowed it. Remember after his death, they repossessed everything. They were nice enough to let her keep her wedding band, but Corrine told the children to not to make a peep about her engagement ring. So after at least 14-15 years, her engagement ring was still not paid off.

[Daisy]

9 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

I’m wondering now if Malcolm’s eventual death was ‘expedited’ by Corinne once she was certain she’d inherit from him - or if at least the series will be rewritten this way...

Oooohhh maybe!!!
In the book he just had a weak heart/strokes etc (the first one was when Corrine left w/Christopher), and then we just know he "died months ago." but it would be something if Corrine gave him a little somethin' somethin'

[Snow Apple]

27 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Oooohhh maybe!!!
In the book he just had a weak heart/strokes etc (the first one was when Corrine left w/Christopher), and then we just know he "died months ago." but it would be something if Corrine gave him a little somethin' somethin'

"Look Daddy, I baked donuts!" 

[Scarlett45]

35 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I believe Corrine genuinely loved Christopher Sr. but part of it was that he indulged her. Sure they didn't live like Foxworth Hall, but they spent beyond their means and Christopher allowed it. Remember after his death, they repossessed everything. They were nice enough to let her keep her wedding band, but Corrine told the children to not to make a peep about her engagement ring. So after at least 14-15 years, her engagement ring was still not paid off.

I was about to mention that, and you beat me to it. They were up to their EYEBALLS in debt. The cost of living was a lot less in the 1940s and 50s. A white man with a college education (Christopher didn't make it to med school, but he did finish college) could certainly support a wife and 4 kids in a typical middle class life, with a few luxuries and not be up to his EYEBALLS in debt. So no savings, no life insurance, and everything was purchased on credit.

Not that it wasn't Christopher's fault as well- I think after his mother died he felt so alone, and Corinne was all he had, so he wanted to keep her happy (especially knowing how much she gave up to be with him), always thinking there would be time to "make it up"

[CountryGirl]

5 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

"Look Daddy, I baked donuts!" 

ETA: Did it bug anyone else that they referred to the donuts as "cookies?" in the film version?

It's a donut, dammit!

[psychoticstate]

4 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I believe Corrine genuinely loved Christopher Sr. but part of it was that he indulged her. Sure they didn't live like Foxworth Hall, but they spent beyond their means and Christopher allowed it. Remember after his death, they repossessed everything. They were nice enough to let her keep her wedding band, but Corrine told the children to not to make a peep about her engagement ring. So after at least 14-15 years, her engagement ring was still not paid off.

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I was about to mention that, and you beat me to it. They were up to their EYEBALLS in debt. The cost of living was a lot less in the 1940s and 50s. A white man with a college education (Christopher didn't make it to med school, but he did finish college) could certainly support a wife and 4 kids in a typical middle class life, with a few luxuries and not be up to his EYEBALLS in debt. So no savings, no life insurance, and everything was purchased on credit.

Not that it wasn't Christopher's fault as well- I think after his mother died he felt so alone, and Corinne was all he had, so he wanted to keep her happy (especially knowing how much she gave up to be with him), always thinking there would be time to "make it up"

Regarding Corinne's engagement diamond, I think she put it away not necessarily because it wasn't paid for but because it may have been taken as an asset in order to go toward their debt.  

I don't fault Corinne for not working when she was married to Chris, Sr.  Remember, this would have been in the 1940s and 1950s.  Women stayed home, took care of the house and children.  Plus, she wasn't trained to do anything.  Where I did fault her was by the time she returned to FH after Chris, Sr.'s death, she supposedly was going to secretarial school.  She could have chosen to do anything but she was lazy, she was spoiled, she was entitled and she didn't want to work at or for anything.  

And yes, Christopher Foxworth finished college but when he and Corinne ran off to get married and be Dollangangers, he had to deny his education, which is why he sold insurance, I believe.  Another driving force behind Chris, Jr. and his desire to study and be a doctor.  

I am thoroughly enjoying this series.  I love how we are seeing glimpses of how very much Corinne was Malcolm's daughter, even as a teenager.  Like others, I didn't understand why the pregnancy storyline was there; it added nothing to the plot.  From reading the books, I always assumed that Corinne had been very sheltered by Malcolm and Christopher was the first boy, other than her brothers, that she was truly allowed to be alone with.  

Max Irons and Jemima Rooper are fantastic and I wouldn't be mad if they continued with FITA from Olivia's perspective.

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

I don't fault Corinne for not working when she was married to Chris, Sr.  Remember, this would have been in the 1940s and 1950s.  Women stayed home, took care of the house and children.  Plus, she wasn't trained to do anything.  Where I did fault her was by the time she returned to FH after Chris, Sr.'s death, she supposedly was going to secretarial school.  She could have chosen to do anything but she was lazy, she was spoiled, she was entitled and she didn't want to work at or for anything.  

No no I don't fault Corrine for not working when Chris Sr was alive. After he was dead and they were repossessing everything, taking her children back to a house to be locked in the attic was a better option to her than some type of work. (bolding mine) BINGO.

5 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Max Irons and Jemima Rooper are fantastic and I wouldn't be mad if they continued with FITA from Olivia's perspective.

OOOO that would be cool.

[Snow Apple]

14 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Max Irons and Jemima Rooper are fantastic and I wouldn't be mad if they continued with FITA from Olivia's perspective.

I've always wanted a book from Olivia's POV of FITA. How did she really feel about the children? Was she conflicted? She did give them the pot of amaryllis flowers. I'm also convinced the dollhouse was from her but she made Corrine say it was from her. In Petals, Cathy found the lost dolls back in the dollhouse. Who else would steal them and put them back later if not Olivia?

[CountryGirl]

26 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I've always wanted a book from Olivia's POV of FITA. How did she really feel about the children? Was she conflicted? She did give them the pot of amaryllis flowers. I'm also convinced the dollhouse was from her but she made Corrine say it was from her. In Petals, Cathy found the lost dolls back in the dollhouse. Who else would steal them and put them back later if not Olivia?

I'd read this for sure. The flowers and her wavering for a long time when they gave her the painting before tossing it aside makes me think there was some shred of decency.

Also, when she sees the children for the first time at the very end of GoS, she notes how much Chris Jr and Cathy look like their parents at their ages (you don't say?) and the twins were cherubs and that she would have to steel herself not to love them. 

I've also wondered if Malcolm truly did know about the kids. I know there was the codicil and the journal but I've always felt a power-hungry John Amos pushed for the one and was the true author of the other, writing how he thought Malcolm would and JA knew pretty much every secret, including Corinne and Chris Jr's true relationship, so it's not a stretch to think he wrote the journal and gave it to Bart as a way to brain-wash him. I think if Malcolm had known he had grand-daughters (and half-nieces!), he couldn't have resisted wanting to know them (and yes, possess them). 

[Scarlett45]

31 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I've always wanted a book from Olivia's POV of FITA. How did she really feel about the children? Was she conflicted? She did give them the pot of amaryllis flowers. I'm also convinced the dollhouse was from her but she made Corrine say it was from her. In Petals, Cathy found the lost dolls back in the dollhouse. Who else would steal them and put them back later if not Olivia?

That would've been interesting. Olivia did some pretty twisted things though, like the two weeks of no food. TWO WEEKS? Why not just let them starve to death? Its like she got a pleasure out of giving them tiny bits of kindness and then taking it away. And they were locked in there so long, almost 4yrs yes? What did Olivia think would happen to them if she died/was injured/in the hospital. 

I mean, IRL we have examples of people held hostage for years (Girl in a Box, and those women trapped in that house in Cleveland, the woman in Austria held hostage by her father in the basement) but in all of those instances the kidnappers were keeping them around for their own sick pleasure. Why did Olivia keep feeding them, but was not going to make moves to let them go. I would think it would be psychologically easier to just ignore them up there. But if she did that, Christopher and Cathy may have broken the windows and tried to jump, rather than slowly starve to death.

2 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I know there was the codicil and the journal but I've always felt a power-hungry John Amos pushed for the one and was the true author of the other, writing how he thought Malcolm would and JA knew pretty much every secret, including Corinne and Chris Jr's true relationship, so it's not a stretch to think he wrote the journal and gave it to Bart as a way to brain-wash him. I think if Malcolm had known he had grand-daughters (and half-nieces!), he couldn't have resisted wanting to know them (and yes, possess them). 

I agree. Is Paul Wesley coming back? I want more creepy John Amos!

[CountryGirl]

1 minute ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree. Is Paul Wesley coming back? I want more creepy John Amos!

In the book, he shows up after Joel's death and that's when Malcolm and Olivia get all "religious." But IDMB only list Paul as being in E1 of the mini-series. Boo!

[Scarlett45]

18 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

In the book, he shows up after Joel's death and that's when Malcolm and Olivia get all "religious." But IDMB only list Paul as being in E1 of the mini-series. Boo!

Well that's disappointing. IMBD can be wrong. Why hire him and only give him two scenes??

[CountryGirl]

47 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Well that's disappointing. IMBD can be wrong. Why hire him and only give him two scenes??

Yes, it can be. And I should clarify, it said one episode. But hopefully they will bring him back. If they don't, what was the point?

[psychoticstate]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Well that's disappointing. IMBD can be wrong. Why hire him and only give him two scenes??

Not only that but John Amos was a major part of why Olivia went so fanatically religious.  I would have thought JA would have returned for Mal's funeral.  That definitely would have been the place for seeds to be planted and then go full out once Joel allegedly died and Christopher and Corinne ran off .

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

Not only that but John Amos was a major part of why Olivia went so fanatically religious.  I would have thought JA would have returned for Mal's funeral.  That definitely would have been the place for seeds to be planted and then go full out once Joel allegedly died and Christopher and Corinne ran off .

This is true. 
 

I think it would be interesting if Joel fakes his own death after conversion therapy- terrified Malcolm and Olivia will lock him up again, he makes a plan and just leaves with what can gather on his person. No trust or anything. I think that could be a good bit of storytelling. 
 

It was hinted at in the books at Joel was gay. Malcolm was forever calling him effeminate and “a sissy” because he was a musician. I was not sure at first reading whether Joel was actually more effeminate than Malcolm would like (and perhaps gay) or if Malcolm was just being ridiculous as well as jerk. 

[qtpye]

15 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I believe Corrine genuinely loved Christopher Sr. but part of it was that he indulged her. Sure they didn't live like Foxworth Hall, but they spent beyond their means and Christopher allowed it. Remember after his death, they repossessed everything. They were nice enough to let her keep her wedding band, but Corrine told the children to not to make a peep about her engagement ring. So after at least 14-15 years, her engagement ring was still not paid off.

15 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I was about to mention that, and you beat me to it. They were up to their EYEBALLS in debt. The cost of living was a lot less in the 1940s and 50s. A white man with a college education (Christopher didn't make it to med school, but he did finish college) could certainly support a wife and 4 kids in a typical middle class life, with a few luxuries and not be up to his EYEBALLS in debt. So no savings, no life insurance, and everything was purchased on credit.

Not that it wasn't Christopher's fault as well- I think after his mother died he felt so alone, and Corinne was all he had, so he wanted to keep her happy (especially knowing how much she gave up to be with him), always thinking there would be time to "make it up"

It was hard to believe that Christopher was an insurance salesman but had no financial estates planning like a life insurance policy for his four children and wife.

It was not uncommon for women to not have marketable skills back then and it was part of a man's job to make sure his family was provided for in case he passed.

I know one of the first responsibilities as a parent was making sure that I and my husband had enough life insurance, particularly when my children were very small.

They explained it away by saying that Christopher could not resist Corrine's whims but that is just blaming the careless actions of a man on a woman.

Also, Christopher's job took him out of town 4-5 days a week. That meant Corrine would have to take care of 4 children mostly by herself. This would be brutally hard and does not line up with the selfish spoiled useless woman who only had good looks to her credit.

That being said I thought Corrine was one of the worst mothers in literature until I came across Jillian from the Heaven series.

[andromeda331]

Wow, Part II was awesome! 

Corrine is just like her daddy isn't she? I laughed when she was the one who poisoned him. That's what Malcolm would do. All because she could no longer get what she wanted. Oh, I so hope she's the one who kills him. That would be great. 

Besides that I like Corrine. I love her relationship with Olivia. Asking her about sex was weird. I do like that even Corrine noticed how terrible Malcolm treats everyone in his family. I'll hate Olivia later but I did wish when Corrine was talking her that things had been different. Olivia ended up with someone else or no one at all. No one deserves Malcolm except maybe Malcolm. I love the kids relationships with each other. They love each other and get along. I really like that. They all know their father is an asshole.

Poor Mal I was dreading his death. Of course most of its Malcolm's fault for going after his fiancee and Corrine being wreckless with her posion. Of course Corrine is wreckless with her poison. Too bad she didn't put it all in Malcolm's drink. He'd be dead and they'd all be free.

I hope Harry's not Joel's half-brother. I know they said he was Celia's stepson but I'm still worried his mother was yet another one of Malcolm's victims. Celia's right. He won't stop until he is forced to stop. Sure he had his other women but believing he never raped another woman in fifteen years especially seeing how he corerced Helen into it. I hope I'm wrong but I'm worried I'm not.  

Little Christopher was adorable.

Poor Alicia. What was done to her was horrible. Unfortunately, Nella was right. If she didn't go along with who knows what Malcolm would do. He did tell Olivia that women die in childbirth. That's probably the one downside is it would really, really be nice to see one or everyone go after Malcolm and take turns killing him. It won't because it would mess up the other movies. But it would be really nice. 

I'm not sure I see the point of Corrine's pregnancy and abortion.  To show how close her and Olivia are? To show Corrine getting out of consequences for her actions? I don't really know. None of those make sense. 

I'm not sure why Alicia's back either. 

[Snow Apple]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm not sure why Alicia's back either. 

POSSIBLE SPOILER?

I'm guessing she's dying and wants Christopher to have some security. Although I'm not sure why she would throw him to the wolves, but maybe she knew Olivia loved little Chris and hope she will protect him.

[Scarlett45]

23 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

POSSIBLE SPOILER?

I'm guessing she's dying and wants Christopher to have some security. Although I'm not sure why she would throw him to the wolves, but maybe she knew Olivia loved little Chris and hope she will protect him.

I could see that. Given that Malcolm threatened to hurt his own little brother (who was a damn baby) if Alicia dared fight back against her rape, I cannot see her thinking Malcolm would have any sort of kindness toward him. She probably also didn't think Christopher was in any physical danger given he was a grown man. 

I can believe that Alicia thought that Olivia might be kind to him, and given that Alicia didn't have any more kids, she might have wanted him to have some sort of family connections with Mal (she might not know Mal is deceased yet), Joel and Corinne (as a niece, even if not as a bio sister). As a mother she might not have wanted Christopher to be all alone in the world, although Malcolm is a POS (everyone in the town agrees), he's just one person.

[Daisy]

In the books, Olivia always loved Christopher - and then Alicia (who was dying of breast cancer) wrote to her and asked if she could raise him since Alicia was dying. Olivia said yeah right away.

So maybe this is basically in lieu of the letter and this way Alicia could see Corrine or something? 

[CountryGirl]

41 minutes ago, Daisy said:

In the books, Olivia always loved Christopher - and then Alicia (who was dying of breast cancer) wrote to her and asked if she could raise him since Alicia was dying. Olivia said yeah right away.

So maybe this is basically in lieu of the letter and this way Alicia could see Corrine or something? 

That's what I was thinking with regard to Alicia showing up in person, Much more drama to mine than a letter.

I also always thought Olivia was the closest to Christopher and that while she loved her own sons but because of the crap Malcolm inflicted upon them, they were never able to be as close as she was with Chris, who was raised to openly voice and show affection.