Lifetime's VC Andrews Movies Topic (Flowers In The Attic, The Dollangangers, The Casteels, etc) - General Discussion

[qtpye]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Naomi Judd, the country star who played Grandmere in Ruby died. (She’s also the mother of Ashley and Wynonna Judd). I had not seen her in anything in a while before that role- I liked what she brought to it. A prequel about Grandmere’s life would’ve been interesting. 

Yes, and young Naomi Judd was how I imagined Ruby looked like in the books.

[Scarlett45]

On 4/30/2022 at 4:35 PM, qtpye said:

Yes, and young Naomi Judd was how I imagined Ruby looked like in the books.

I’ve been meaning to reply to this FOR FOREVER, but yes I could see that!(based on what people have said here)

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I’ve been meaning to reply to this FOR FOREVER, but yes I could see that!(based on what people have said here)

So sad to think of what happened to the real Naomi Judd. She was actually pretty good in the series. I was shocked to find out it was suicide. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by qtpye

[Daisy]

is this airing this week? Canada lifetime doesn't have it listed

[CountryGirl]

It's set to begin airing on Saturday, 7/9/2022 (8pm EST, streaming the next day).

More details, including a preview can be found here.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

It's set to begin airing on Saturday, 7/9/2022 (8pm EST, streaming the next day).

More details, including a preview can be found here.

I can't wait!

[Daisy]

On 7/5/2022 at 1:27 PM, CountryGirl said:

It's set to begin airing on Saturday, 7/9/2022 (8pm EST, streaming the next day).

More details, including a preview can be found here.

yeah. not listed for Canada yet
will have to figure things out

[Scarlett45]

On 7/5/2022 at 12:27 PM, CountryGirl said:

It's set to begin airing on Saturday, 7/9/2022 (8pm EST, streaming the next day).

More details, including a preview can be found here.

Yay!!!!

[Scarlett45]

What is this Tom Foolery??? I’m at my Mom’s and I went to turn on Lifetime and she doesn’t have it any more??? What in the world! I have to fix this before the movie starts. 
 

So I just got the Frndly App. Watching the end of FITA, and poor little Carrie!! I haven’t seen this one in a while and it’s so sad. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

I’m currently watching and this is just … wow. Can’t wait for the next few episodes. 
 

I’ve gone down the rabbit hole to refresh my memory on the book and discovered that there are books about the other Corinne. I wonder if they’ll make movies about that series. 

[Spartan Girl]

This is trashy but so addictive.

So Christopher and Corrine were half-siblings, not just uncle and niece? And they wind up together. Oh. Okay. Yup. 🤢 🤮 

Geez, Olivia, you didn’t have to take it out on the poor horse!

[Snow Apple]

I like this one and the actors are great. I wish they did four episodes of the previous movies. This is how it's done. Can't wait for Corrine to be born and later when she meets Christopher.

The servants are made up for the movie, correct? I don't remember them in the book but it's been a while since I read it. It seems they deliberately made the older housekeeper look like Olivia from the first movie.

The swan bed is still not how I imagined but it's sure a lot better than in the previous movies.

[StaceyNotStacie]

I wonder if the older maid was in love with Kelsey’s character. I’m also wondering if the other maid’s daughter is a Foxworth. 
 

Great casting overall with this series. 

[Kiki777]

I’m surprised at how well done this was.  Good production values and the actors Were far better than what we usually get on a Lifetime movie.  The changes/additions they made to the story actually worked for me.  Well except for Jon Amos being into his cousin Olivia but this is VCAndrews after all lol

[Daisy]

:( not in canada. quell sadness

[TattleTeeny]

This was pretty good and I like Olivia. However, they are going to need to give me a whole bunch of exposition and insight to convey exactly how  this intelligent, capable, forward-thinking, open-minded, kindhearted, kick-ass woman devolved into The Grandmother! I get that life and her situation beat her down, but even so, that level of transformation is a lot.

[Snow Apple]

50 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

This was pretty good and I like Olivia. However, they are going to need to give me a whole bunch of exposition and insight to convey exactly how  this intelligent, capable, forward-thinking, open-minded, kindhearted, kick-ass woman devolved into The Grandmother! I get that life and her situation beat her down, but even so, that level of transformation is a lot.

In the book, I blame John Amos. He brainwashed her with the fire-and-brimstone form of religion. It forced her to harden her heart against any forgiveness to Corrine and the children.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

This was pretty good and I like Olivia. However, they are going to need to give me a whole bunch of exposition and insight to convey exactly how  this intelligent, capable, forward-thinking, open-minded, kindhearted, kick-ass woman devolved into The Grandmother! I get that life and her situation beat her down, but even so, that level of transformation is a lot.

She was much worse in the book. Here she is a likable person who is in a bad situation. 

In the book, she inherited a lot of money from her father ( he was smart enough to exclude Malcolm) so she always had the financial freedom to leave but did not.

She was also kind of a mean person from the beginning and never befriended servants or Alicia. Olivia was a terror as an employer.

I can finally say that this show is what I have been waiting for all this time.  

The changes were actually GOOD.

First, Olivia

She was much improved. Here she is an attractive likable character who just did not meet the traditional definitions of femininity. You could not say hello to book Olivia without her lecturing you about hard work and not being frivolous even before she married Malcolm.

In the first meeting with Malcolm, she commissioned a blue dress that was supposed to be the first outfit that shows the "fullness of her bosom". I am glad they did not go that route here.

She wears the same dress to her wedding party and looks completely out of place and old-fashioned compared to the much more risqué clothes of the 1920s flappers. These flappers flirt and hang all over Malcolm and he takes one into his office and closes the door during the party. The southern ladies make fun of her and she has a horrible time.

I actually think the show did this better.

Shallow observations

Meeting Malcolm...swoon.

Meeting John Amos....swoon? I was surprised at that one.

Meeting Olivia's father...swoon...okay, now I might just be lonely.

I think Olivia's dad might have been some big old-time actor. My mother thought he might have been in LA Law back in the day.

The cast is incredible. I was expecting Kelsey to have a bigger role as Garland.

Max Irons is doing a great job of portraying a man that most women would find gorgeous and then repulsive once they got to know his true personality.

[qtpye]

I would also like to add that a lot was made in the book about Olivia being 6 feet tall. Malcolm was one of the few men that she did not tower over.

I am okay with them casting such a petite actress because she is doing a good job. I did notice that she was as small or smaller than Alicia.

[TattleTeeny]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

She was much worse in the book. Here she is a likable person who is in a bad situation. 

In the book, she inherited a lot of money from her father ( he was smart enough to exclude Malcolm) so she always had the financial freedom to leave but did not.

She was also kind of a mean person from the beginning and never befriended servants or Alicia. Olivia was a terror as an employer.

I can finally say that this show is what I have been waiting for all this time.  

The changes were actually GOOD.

Oh, I read it (haha, this is clearly a safe space to admit this!). I just mean that I hope, in the confines of this show, that we don't see her all of a sudden a monster with no further trajectory beforehand.

[Snow Apple]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think Olivia's dad might have been some big old-time actor. My mother thought the night have been in L.A Law back in the day.

Yup, Harry Hamlin was in LA. Law. Old time actor? Thanks. Now you made me feel old. LOL

He was cute back then but I find him surprisingly hotter now while watching this.

[Scarlett45]

23 hours ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

I wonder if the older maid was in love with Kelsey’s character. I’m also wondering if the other maid’s daughter is a Foxworth. 
 

Great casting overall with this series. 

So I didn’t get to watch at the original airing because my weekend has been shit, BUT I am watching NOW and I had these same thoughts. 
 

 

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

I would also like to add that a lot was made in the book about Olivia being 6 feet tall. Malcolm was one of the few men that she did not tower over.

I am okay with them casting such a petite actress because she is doing a good job. I did notice that she was as small or smaller than Alicia.

I noticed this too, but I like her. She’s doing a great job with character. Her face has a “handsome maturity”.

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

Max Irons is doing a great job of portraying a man that most women would find gorgeous and then repulsive once they got to know his true personality.

Absolutely. It’s like the face of beautiful evil. He’s so AWFUL to Olivia. It’s not even that he’s not “into her”, once he has his hooks in (marriage) he treats her like total crap. He hates women so much yet he wants a daughter, it’s fucking CREEPY. Perhaps its only a daughter that he could brain wash from infancy would have any sort of affection for him. And his rape of Alicia, and manslaughter of his own father (who was trying to defend her). I want him to get his just desserts. 

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

Meeting John Amos....swoon? I was surprised at that one.

Paul Wesley is hot. 

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

She was also kind of a mean person from the beginning and never befriended servants or Alicia. Olivia was a terror as an employer.

Book Olivia was always a nasty person with a chip on her shoulder. Yes the white patriarchy sucks, but sometimes people don’t like you because you’re an awful person- not because you aren’t “pretty”.

[Kiss my mutt]

I’m watching it right now (at the wedding party) and I’m assuming Jemima Rooper who plays Olivia is wearing prosthetics to make her look older and less attractive. They did well making her look statuesque given she’s only 5’3 in real life. 
I love seeing Kate Mulgrew as Mrs. Steiner. I didn’t look at the cast beforehand so I’m finding lots of surprises. 

[Scarlett45]

These ads for “Phrogging” are creeping me out. 

53 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I’m watching it right now (at the wedding party) and I’m assuming Jemima Rooper who plays Olivia is wearing prosthetics to make her look older and less attractive. They did well making her look statuesque given she’s only 5’3 in real life. 
I love seeing Kate Mulgrew as Mrs. Steiner. I didn’t look at the cast beforehand so I’m finding lots of surprises. 

Jemina is 40, it’s probably just her styling and bad makeup to make her appear the way she does in the film (isn’t Book Olivia supposed to be 25?) I don’t think Olivia is unattractive per se, but she does look “dowdy”. 
 

Edited to add- I like Kate Mulgrew too. 

[Kiki777]

7 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I love seeing Kate Mulgrew as Mrs. Steiner. I didn’t look at the cast beforehand so I’m finding lots of surprises. 

Whoa! I did not recognize her.  Lots of big names in this project.  But even the actors who played Olivia and Malcolm, who I hadn’t seen before, were very good.  Looking forward to the next episode - I’m glad they’re drawing out this story.  Some of these novels do not work well condensed into two hours.  Petals on the Wind was absolutely insane as a 2-hour movie - opps actually 90 minutes because of commercials.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

Whoa! I did not recognize her.  Lots of big names in this project.  But even the actors who played Olivia and Malcolm, who I hadn’t seen before, were very good.  Looking forward to the next episode - I’m glad they’re drawing out this story.  Some of these novels do not work well condensed into two hours.  Petals on the Wind was absolutely insane as a 2-hour movie - opps actually 90 minutes because of commercials.

Malcolm, portrayed by Max Irons, is Jeremy Irons son. Max is a good actor, he can do sexy steamy VERY well. I love seeing him go full on villain. I cannot wait for next week. I feel so horribly for Alicia. She is really stuck, pregnant, afraid that Malcom will hurt Christopher, poor thing! 

Nella should have more interesting things to do next week. I do think her daughter is Garland's (she is way too old to be Malcom's) but Garland was portrayed to be nice and kind (if not s business savvy). Thinking about it, perhaps Malcolm is older than Max Irons (who is 36)? Malcom is supposed to be in his early 30s, so I guess the math works if her daughter is in her late teens- could see Malcolm raping the staff as a teenager.

[Moxie Cat]

12 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

These ads for “Phrogging” are creeping me out.

One of my long-time middle-of-the-night fears is that someone will sneak into my house when I'm out and will hide in the attic...which my daytime, logical brain says is obviously an irrational fear. So my reaction to that ad was "You mean that's REAL?!? I don't need to know that!"

"Garden of Shadows" was the first VC book that I ever read and always one of my favorites. I thought they did a GREAT job with the movie! (And I was really disappointed with so many aspects of the others - and catching the end of the Heather Graham FitA reminded me of that.) The script, pacing, acting, actors, cinematography, direction, location filming....all excellent.

Jemima Rooper and Max Irons are absolutely perfect. I haven't spotted her in anything since Hex and Lost in Austen, so I was happy to see her starring in this. I do wonder why they cast two Brits in the parts though - was this filmed in the UK, does anyone know?

Paul Wesley on the other hand...don't get me wrong, I like him a lot (TVD viewer) but I never pictured John Amos as...hot. (Or inappropriately into Olivia!)

Harry Hamlin! In addition to LA Law, he also appeared in recent years in Veronica Mars and Mad Men, and back in the day, starred in the seminal classic "Clash of the Titans" (one of my favorite flicks as a kid and still a guilty pleasure!)

I usually don't like unnecessary plot changes but I did like the addition of Nella and the daughter...guessing she is Malcolm's because I can't see how making her Garland's works for the plot. Malcolm wanted a daughter: check. Malcolm is a jerk and rapist: check. Plus, it's been specified that Corinne gave birth to Malcolm when she was 17, so it's totally possible he got a girl pregnant at the same age. Also, we didn't see any evidence that Garland was rotten (I honestly don't remember from the book). 

I never thought Olivia was unlikable in the book, though it's been a long time since I read it...just that she became worn down and bitter over the years due to Malcolm's cruelty and infidelity, loneliness/isolation, later family events (which I'll be vague about to avoid spoilers), and John Amos's religious influence. 

Super happy there are three more weeks to go!

Edited July 11, 2022 by Moxie Cat

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

One of my long-time middle-of-the-night fears is that someone will sneak into my house when I'm out and will hide in the attic...which my daytime, logical brain says is obviously an irrational fear. So my reaction to that ad was "You mean that's REAL?!? I don't need to know that!"

"Garden of Shadows" was the first VC book that I ever read and always one of my favorites. I thought they did a GREAT job with the movie! (And I was really disappointed with so many aspects of the others - and catching the end of the Heather Graham FitA reminded me of that.) The script, pacing, acting, actors, cinematography, direction, location filming....all excellent.

Jemima Rooper and Max Irons are absolutely perfect. I haven't spotted her in anything since Hex and Lost in Austen, so I was happy to see her starring in this. I do wonder why they cast two Brits in the parts though - was this filmed in the UK, does anyone know?

Paul Wesley on the other hand...don't get me wrong, I like him a lot (TVD viewer) but I never pictured John Amos as...hot. (Or inappropriately into Olivia!)

Harry Hamlin! In addition to LA Law, he also appeared in recent years in Veronica Mars and Mad Men, and back in the day, starred in the seminal classic "Clash of the Titans" (one of my favorite flicks as a kid and still a guilty pleasure!)

I usually don't like unnecessary plot changes but I did like the addition of Nella and the daughter...guessing she is Malcolm's because I can't see how making her Garland's works for the plot. Malcolm wanted a daughter: check. Malcolm is a jerk and rapist: check. Plus, it's been specified that Corinne gave birth to Malcolm when she was 17, so it's totally possible he got a girl pregnant at the same age. Also, we didn't see any evidence that Garland was rotten (I honestly don't remember from the book). 

I never thought Olivia was unlikable in the book, though it's been a long time since I read it...just that she became worn down and bitter over the years due to Malcolm's cruelty and infidelity, loneliness/isolation, later family events (which I'll be vague about to avoid spoilers), and John Amos's religious influence. 

Super happy there are three more weeks to go!

It was also my first book.

I felt bad for Olivia but hated her after I read the other books. It was galling that she excused her horrible abuse of being trapped but she actually had a fortune under her own name and could have left. I would never stay with that horrible man who was obviously going to abuse his children.

She blamed all her problems on not being pretty but I could not help but think of Eleanor Roosevelt, who would be of the same time period. Eleanor was never conventionally attractive but was always well-liked because of her kind heart and lovely personality. She even married a man as rich and handsome as Malcolm is supposed to be (though that marriage also had its issues).

19 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Yup, Harry Hamlin was in LA. Law. Old time actor? Thanks. Now you made me feel old. LOL

He was cute back then but I find him surprisingly hotter now while watching this.

My apologies @Snow Apple. I am 37, so I am not exactly a spring chicken, myself, LOL.

[Moxie Cat]

3 minutes ago, qtpye said:

but she actually had a fortune under her own name and could have left.

They changed that here, maybe to generate more sympathy for the character and counter the "why didn't she just leave?" argument. 

I do wonder if Malcolm would have just let her leave in the book though. He didn't care about the two boys, but he was concerned about appearances and propriety. I can't imagine he would have tolerated his own wife leaving like his own mother did - and taking his public heirs, to boot.

I don't remember: did Olivia ever plan to leave Malcolm and go back to her father in the book, as was shown in the movie? I actually don't remember that happening. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Moxie Cat said:

They changed that here, maybe to generate more sympathy for the character and counter the "why didn't she just leave?" argument. 

I do wonder if Malcolm would have just let her leave in the book though. He didn't care about the two boys, but he was concerned about appearances and propriety. I can't imagine he would have tolerated his own wife leaving like his own mother did - and taking his public heirs, to boot.

I don't remember: did Olivia ever plan to leave Malcolm and go back to her father in the book, as was shown in the movie? I actually don't remember that happening. 

(bolding mine) Book Olivia never planned to leave. I think because being Mrs Malcolm Foxworth was all she had, if she left, even though she could financially support herself, she would lose her sons (whom she did love) and she would be a social pariah. A "Separated Woman" was not received in polite society, yeah she could've gone to another state and lied (pretending to be a spinster or a widow), but as much as she scorned society she desperately wanted to be a part of it. 

This Olivia is trying to make a best of a bad situation and is actually a decent person. She's doing what many women in her position had to do. I did like that she asked Malcolm why he married "her". He hates her! And is so mean! Yes many men married women that were appropriate and had affairs with women they "wanted" but most of them didnt treat their wives like total crap.

 Malcolm wanted a smart woman who was young enough to be "breeding stock" but he has a major Madonna/Whore complex and never could be married to a woman he found attractive. He hates himself and he takes it out on women for causing him to "lust". If it turns out Nella's daughter IS his, I am surprised she wasn't fired and paid off when she started to show. Unless he was shipped off to boarding school (or college) didn't know.  That seems possible.

[Daisy]

Yay! I was able to watch it. oh my stars, it's so gooodd! and Y'all that's a swan bed! at least it's better than the Swan Bed Part 1. Now I really wish that the other movies were done n 4 parts because it's really evident that they really needed more time dedicated to them. 

It's been a hot minute since i've read Garden of Shadows, but i do know there were some changes. Nella is interesting. My take is that Malcolm did rape her, so she cut her face so that Malcolm wouldn't think she was pretty anymore, but she was pregnant as a result. (but maybe hid the pregnancy so he didn't know - or simply didn't want a mulatto baby). 

the changes to Olivia were great (and I mean, needed. you have to be able to sympathize with her until you stop being able to). I love how they made Alicia and she friends. I am wondering when and how they'll end that. 

Younger me probably figured this out too but take really leans in hard that Corinne the first sexually abused Malcolm. 

very excited to see the other three epiodes!

[Scarlett45]

32 minutes ago, Daisy said:

It's been a hot minute since i've read Garden of Shadows, but i do know there were some changes. Nella is interesting. My take is that Malcolm did rape her, so she cut her face so that Malcolm wouldn't think she was pretty anymore, but she was pregnant as a result. (but maybe hid the pregnancy so he didn't know - or simply didn't want a mulatto baby). 

Oh I’m sure Malcolm raped her. The cut may have come from when she tried to defend herself. It could be that Malcolm was away at school when she started to show and she was terrified of losing her job (you know since she was PREGNANT) so she didn’t say anything. Or Garland/Mrs Steiner knew, and didn’t fire her (you know because she was PREGNANT) if she sent the child away to be raised and didn’t ask for public acknowledgment. Happened ALL the time. I highly doubt Malcolm would care that much about a black child of his, just proof he was fertile. 

 

32 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Younger me probably figured this out too but take really leans in hard that Corinne the first sexually abused Malcolm. 

Really you think? I never got that impression. My take on it was that although Garland was not a sadist like Malcolm, he liked young teenagers he could control, and he was a bad husband to Corinne. Once she gave birth to Malcolm (his heir) and aged out of his preference he didn’t pay her any attention. At 22 she realized she wanted a different life and left. She likely left Malcolm because she had no way to take care of herself and she thought he would be treated well because he was a boy child. 
 

Not only does Malcolm have a Madonna/Whore complex, he’s sadistic and creepy af. He also happens to be rich and handsome, it’s a BAD combo. 

[Daisy]

22 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Really you think? I never got that impression. My take on it was that although Garland was not a sadist like Malcolm, he liked young teenagers he could control, and he was a bad husband to Corinne. Once she gave birth to Malcolm (his heir) and aged out of his preference he didn’t pay her any attention. At 22 she realized she wanted a different life and left. She likely left Malcolm because she had no way to take care of herself and she thought he would be treated well because he was a boy child. 

maybe. I dunno, now that you make me question it ;) yeah as nice as Garland is, he is kind sketch too. (two child brides). but ii do remember in the book he was kind of sweet, but again v. long time since i read GoS.  maybe it's just how it is played here.  it just seeems veerrry sketchy.. Like something cultivated/triggered it maybe?

I'm going to blame this on summer, but Madonna/Whore complex?

[Scarlett45]

20 minutes ago, Daisy said:

maybe. I dunno, now that you make me question it ;) yeah as nice as Garland is, he is kind sketch too. (two child brides). but ii do remember in the book he was kind of sweet, but again v. long time since i read GoS.  maybe it's just how it is played here.  it just seeems veerrry sketchy.. Like something cultivated/triggered it maybe?

I'm going to blame this on summer, but Madonna/Whore complex?

Garland was sketchy, but he wasn’t violent and evil. 17 was young to be married at the end of the 19th century but not abnormally so. Lots of “normal dudes” in their early-mid 20s married 17-18yrs old women during that period (especially if they were rich and could support a wife). Garland probably liked them young, and ignored them once they served their purpose, but wasn’t cruel or physically abusive. 
 

Madonna/Whore Complex: men who either see women as “saintly Madonnas” or “debased whores”. Virtuous mother figures or only conduits of evil and lust. Not people, with minds or interests, or even a little bit of both. 
 

If Malcolm had been born in the 21st century it’s likely his father would’ve gotten him some therapy to deal with his issues of abandonment. He sees women as whores who will leave and hurt him like his Mom did, and men that are nice to women (like Garland was to Alicia) as “weak”. Malcolm has every right to have issues over his Mom’s abandonment, but at the end of the day he’s an evil asshole with issues. The “issues” didn’t make him treat Olivia like crap (and ignore his two sons, gotta have a girl you know to mold and manipulate!) his being evil is what causes it. 
 

Taking Olivia and Alicia up to his mother’s bedroom to rape them- come on now! It was also bold AF to try and attack Alicia with a house full of servants and his father there. 
 

I’m looking forward to seeing what Max Irons continues to do with the role. 

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, Daisy said:

I love how they made Alicia and she friends. I am wondering when and how they'll end that. 

This was a really good change. Again, I really like Show Olivia.

In the book, she was creeping around and spying on Alicia and Garland's lovemaking because she was so sexually and emotionally frustrated.

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Taking Olivia and Alicia up to his mother’s bedroom to rape them- come on now! It was also bold AF to try and attack Alicia with a house full of servants and his father there. 
 

God this is so fucked up.

I was relieved and surprised that he did not sexually abuse his daughter (that we know of).

I do believe that he did commit emotional incest with her because their relationship was always inappropriate.

Edited July 12, 2022 by qtpye

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

This was a really good change. Again, I really like Show Olivia.

In the book, she was creeping around and spying on Alicia and Garland's lovemaking because she was so sexually and emotionally frustrated.

God this is so fucked up.

I was relieved and surprised that he did not sexually abuse his daughter (that we know of).

I do believe that he did commit emotional incest with her because their relationship was always inappropriate.

I go back and forth whether Malcolm sexually abused Corrine or not. Given how into her he was it's not hard to imagine he did. If he hadn't sooner or later he would.

Part I was really good. They did a good job with casting. Max is doing a great job as charming and then psychopath. Taking away Olivia's inheritace was a good way to explain why she didn't leave. That part always made it hard for me to have sympathy for Olivia in the book. She could have left if she wanted too. But she didn't. I like that they made her and Alicia friends. Really, book Olivia was a bitch from the get go. This one is sympathetic for now.  I'm surprise Garland's already dead. I thought that would happen in the next part with the Alicia stuff. Olivia looked great in that red dress. 

It would go completely against the book and rest of the story but I'm sadden we didn't get to see Olivia go after Malcolm with the knife. Now that would have been fun.

[Snow Apple]

I like the Olivia/Alicia friendship too. Another change I liked was that she made sure Malcolm pay Alicia her inheritance. In the book, she left Foxworth Hall with nothing so she and little Christopher lived poorly.

The only thing I liked about book Olivia was that she adored all the children, including Christopher and Corrine (until what happened later).

Since we're discussing the Madonna/Whore complex, it seems Malcolm, Christopher Jr, and Bart Jr all feel this way with their respective mothers. They viewed them as saints until they were betrayed. Malcolm then became obsessed with "perfect" daughter Corrine, and Christopher with Cathy.

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I like the Olivia/Alicia friendship too. Another change I liked was that she made sure Malcolm pay Alicia her inheritance. In the book, she left Foxworth Hall with nothing so she and little Christopher lived poorly.

I like that too. Along with right before learning Alicia's pregnant Olivia telling her to leave. Take Christopher, their inheritance and get far away.

Quote

The only thing I liked about book Olivia was that she adored all the children, including Christopher and Corrine (until what happened later).

That was the only good thing about her.

Quote

Since we're discussing the Madonna/Whore complex, it seems Malcolm, Christopher Jr, and Bart Jr all feel this way with their respective mothers. They viewed them as saints until they were betrayed. Malcolm then became obsessed with "perfect" daughter Corrine, and Christopher with Cathy.

Yes, that seems to be a family trait. 

[andromeda331]

I hope we get more about Garland. He's still a big mystery along. All we have is Malcolm's version of events with his mother who isn't very reliable. He really seems nice, friendly and great in Garden of Shadows. But given how Malcolm turned out how did he raise him? He went after two childbrides. Sure, it was common in the era but still creepy and questionable. Alicia says in Garden of Shadows that Garland knew her since she was a child. He really seemed to just wait until she was old enough and married her. Why did the First Corrine leave? Was he tired of her since she was older? Was it something he did or something the First Corrine did? Why was he gone so much during their marriage? Why did he bring Alicia to Foxworth Hall? He had to know what his son was like. Or why didn't he take her away when he noticed Malcolm's behavoir around Alicia? Everyone else noticed it so he had to. 

[Scarlett45]

On 7/13/2022 at 9:32 AM, Snow Apple said:

I like the Olivia/Alicia friendship too. Another change I liked was that she made sure Malcolm pay Alicia her inheritance. In the book, she left Foxworth Hall with nothing so she and little Christopher lived poorly.

The only thing I liked about book Olivia was that she adored all the children, including Christopher and Corrine (until what happened later).

Since we're discussing the Madonna/Whore complex, it seems Malcolm, Christopher Jr, and Bart Jr all feel this way with their respective mothers. They viewed them as saints until they were betrayed. Malcolm then became obsessed with "perfect" daughter Corrine, and Christopher with Cathy.

I didnt see Chris as having a Madonna/Whore complex. He seemed to treat women decently, and although he was hurt that his mother ACTUALLY betrayed him (and locked him in the attic), his love for Cathy was genuine, even when he disagreed with things that she did (like seducing Bart Sr etc). He didnt hold it against her for rest of her life. 

And of all those men Christopher Jr had the most legitimate trauma, but he always tried to do "good things" afterwards (like be a good doctor, a big brother to Carrie, a father to Cathy's boys) not use his power to hurt people weaker than himself.

[Scarlett45]

14 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

But given how Malcolm turned out how did he raise him?

I doubt Garland had anything to do with the raising of Malcolm. Malcolm was probably raised by the staff, with Garland doing whatever he wanted to do. 

14 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

He had to know what his son was like. Or why didn't he take her away when he noticed Malcolm's behavoir around Alicia? Everyone else noticed it so he had to. 

I could see Garland knowing his son was a lechterous ass, but actually trying to rape your stepmother in a house full of servants and your father right there- he may not have thought his son would dare try such a thing. Also I don't think Garland knew Malcolm "well", he didnt raise him in the traditional sense of the term. Also Garland probably thought he was much younger than he was and didn't realize how vulnerable he was in a fight with a man half is age- a lot of parents have a hard time thinking of their kids as fully formed adults. 

[CountryGirl]

I FINALLY had a chance to watch and E1 did NOT disappoint. 

Even just the opening with a voice-over of Olivia’s letter that was read after her death and most of the words verbatim. 
 
Jemima as Olivia and Max as Malcolm were so perfectly cast as were the rest of the ensemble, except Paul was way too hot to play creepy, Bible-beater JA (though total hypocrite as he shagged many, including the maid, Livvy, witnessed by Chris Jr in FITA - the things one remembers!) he was also called “John Amos,” not “Amos,” but that’s being way too nitpicky and this show is so good that I’ll overlook it, like I’m doing with neither Malcolm or Alicia being blond. Max is hot and this Alicia is a dead ringer for the portrait of Corrine Sr. Another quibble is Olivia, who is very claustrophobic, exploring in the attic. I was thinking she only did that one time when she was checking to see if Malcolm was sneaking into an imprisoned Alicia’s room - the same room her future grandchildren would be locked up in FITA - via the attic. I could be wrong about that last point though. 

I liked seeing the closeness of Olivia and her father. Hello, silver fox Harry! Though I doubt they’d have that kind of personal conversation (regarding Olivia’s marriage prospects) in front of the other staff. 

I enjoyed seeing the friendship of Olivia and Nella and, later, that of Olivia and Alicia. Both were good departures from the book where Olivia seemed to dislike everyone except her sons, Chris Sr as a young boy and young man until a certain event happens and Corrine Jr for a time as well. I liked seeing more to her personality with the redecorating, her being a more hands-on mother to her children, etc. Her father dying while deeply in debt helped to explain why Olivia stayed, but given the period, Malcolm would have been granted custody of Mal and Joel and would have stuck them with a nanny for appearances’ sake and to stick it to Olivia and there’s no way in hell she would have ever left them willingly.

The Swan Bed, while still not completely doing the description in the books justice (where are the curtains and the little Swan Bed cradle?), this is by far the best representation thus far, especially with the added touch of the watchful red ruby eye. It became almost menacing as Olivia looked away and up at it as she was repeatedly raped by Malcolm. I do have to wonder WTAF was up with Malcolm and his mommy issues. 
  
Celia being his daughter is an interesting twist. Although I could see Garland having a fling with Nella after Corrine Sr’s departure. Speaking of Garland, I was hoping to see more of him. Kelsey was another great casting choice. 

The house, the music, the clothing, the hairstyles, the lighting, all of it evoking the age and the evil lurking in every nook and cranny in Foxworth Hall. 
 
I will be very curious how they show the evolution of this Olivia to the Grandmother, although her being a rape victim doesn’t justify her victimizing others, especially young children. 
 
I wonder, too, if they will end this series as they did in the book, one of the most chilling scenes ever, having the knowledge we didn’t have in the early chapters of FITA. 

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I didnt see Chris as having a Madonna/Whore complex. He seemed to treat women decently, and although he was hurt that his mother ACTUALLY betrayed him (and locked him in the attic), his love for Cathy was genuine, even when he disagreed with things that she did (like seducing Bart Sr etc). He didnt hold it against her for rest of her life. 

And of all those men Christopher Jr had the most legitimate trauma, but he always tried to do "good things" afterwards (like be a good doctor, a big brother to Carrie, a father to Cathy's boys) not use his power to hurt people weaker than himself.

I agree. Ironically - and I think I’ve said this before - Chris was the healthiest relationship Cathy ever had. 

[Scarlett45]

50 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I agree. Ironically - and I think I’ve said this before - Chris was the healthiest relationship Cathy ever had. 

Yes, you and I are of the same mind regarding this. Chris was a good dude, placed in a really bad situation but had a strong moral center. I do NOT like the rape in FITA, it in NO WAY fits in with anything else we saw about Chris as a person. 

50 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

The Swan Bed, while still not completely doing the description in the books justice (where are the curtains and the little Swan Bed cradle?), this is by far the best representation thus far, especially with the added touch of the watchful red ruby eye. It became almost menacing as Olivia looked away and up at it as she was repeatedly raped by Malcolm. I do have to wonder WTAF was up with Malcolm and his mommy issues. 

That ruby eye was CREEPY. and the way he smushes her face down, so he doesnt have to look her in the eye as he is raping her. Max Irons as Malcolm gives me the CHILLS.

50 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Her father dying while deeply in debt helped to explain why Olivia stayed, but given the period, Malcolm would have been granted custody of Mal and Joel and would have stuck them with a nanny for appearances’ sake and to stick it to Olivia and there’s no way in hell she would have ever left them willingly.

I don't blame her for not wanting to leave her sons. Especially knowing what type of psychological torture/mental abuse they would be put through if she did that, given how Malcolm felt about his own mother and how he ended up. 

[TattleTeeny]

On 7/13/2022 at 10:54 PM, andromeda331 said:

Why did the First Corrine leave? Was he tired of her since she was older? Was it something he did or something the First Corrine did? Why was he gone so much during their marriage?

I may not be remembering correctly, and this is from the somewhat recent – and really terrible – books about the first Cor(r)in(n)e,* but in them, Garland was an abusive rapist (who may have also had crazy mom issues), which does not appear to match the jovial Kelsey Grammer portrayal. 

*Abuse of parentheses because this name appears to show up both ways throughout these books!

Quote

The Swan Bed, while still not completely doing the description in the books justice (where are the curtains and the little Swan Bed cradle?), this is by far the best representation thus far, especially with the added touch of the watchful red ruby eye. 

"Watchful red ruby eye"! love how we all remember the overused phrases of these books! There are so many, even – especially? – in the Neiderman books.

Quote

Yes, you and I are of the same mind regarding this. Chris was a good dude, placed in a really bad situation but had a strong moral center. I do NOT like the rape in FITA, it in NO WAY fits in with anything else we saw about Chris as a person. 

I think Chris was comparatively OK, but he was a bit of a sexist and also did not take no for an answer. Even if he "knew" Cathy was saying no only because of societal optics or because she thought she needed to, he still pushed and pushed. I don't think the fact that he ended up being right about it justifies his previous behavior. That said, he was all fucked up, so of course he wouldn't be "normal." I don't think he ever intended to do assholey things.

ETA: While, obviously, sexism is garbage, I do think the time that Chris lived in (not that Chris is real) was responsible for that, not an innate misogyny specific to him. 

Edited July 15, 2022 by TattleTeeny

[FancyRhubarb]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:31 AM, CountryGirl said:

Speaking of Garland, I was hoping to see more of him. Kelsey was another great casting choice. 

Kelsey's a great actor. He's also a pretty average human being but he's suffered so much in his life that I'm unable to do anything but hope for his success. 

I really enjoyed the first part but I wish Max Irons would lean into it more. You're not doing Shakespeare. It's Virginia Andrews. Camp it up! Overact! Chew that scenery!

[CountryGirl]

12 hours ago, FancyRhubarb said:

Kelsey's a great actor. He's also a pretty average human being but he's suffered so much in his life that I'm unable to do anything but hope for his success. 

I really enjoyed the first part but I wish Max Irons would lean into it more. You're not doing Shakespeare. It's Virginia Andrews. Camp it up! Overact! Chew that scenery!

LOL. But yes! Have him watch Bart in Seeds of Yesterday if he needs lessons in camp. Or his former on-screen brother, the deliciously evil David Oakes, as George, Duke of Clarence in The White Queen. 

[Scarlett45]

Who’s excited for tonight? ME!

[CountryGirl]

I cannot WAIT for tonight.

[Spartan Girl]

Wow, the girl playing Corrine really does look like a young Heather Graham!

LOVED Nella calling Olivia out on being a Karen.