Davina & Sean

[Snarklepuss]

thank you, Sex and The City, for bringing to Manhattan loud women who make potty jokes in public. Hate that show. I don't think Davina is even a NY native, right? and isn't the fam in CA (I'm assuming she grew up there?)? She strikes me as an imsecure try-hard.

I think it's interesting that one of Davina's friends (on that other board that was posted in the media spoilers thread) emerged from the woodwork singing Davina's praises (in a rather aggressive, condescending manner), and Jaclyn is defending her too. I get that Sean is a creep but I'm guessing that when their relationship implodes, she's not going going to come out smelling like roses, either.

 

I agree with you.  I think Davina epitomizes everythng that's wrong with Manhattan these days, and Sex and the City is to blame for some of it by attracting poseurs like her to the place.  No, she is not a native but she is obviously quite full of herself for having "made it" enough to afford an apartment in Manhattan.  She clearly sees Sean as her inferior.  She really needs to get over herself.  If it really mattered to me I could out-snob her 500 times over on the Manhattan front given that I am a native and have some fantastic roots and history with the place that she could only dream of having.  But I don't strut my stuff and act all full of myself like she does.  I am more like a real old time New Yorker.  In other words, so what?  I don't think I'm better than anyone else just because I'm from Manhattan, and she doesn't impress me one bit.

[Snarklepuss]

I see what you mean, but I have to disagree.  Manhattan isn't a monolith.  There are many different areas of Manhattan.  The problem to me was where Davina lived in Manhattan, the Upper East Side.  That place is hard for the most patient of people, I stayed there for a while and didn't like it, and I live in Manhattan.  There are a lot more people living there than there were five years ago, the sidewalks are narrower than they are uptown, or on the West Side, it's crowded and noisy.  Had Davina lived on Riverside Drive or West End Avenue, Sean might not have had all that anxiety.  It's quieter over there, once you walk west of Broadway, you can feel the difference.   I don't think Davina considered that, how Sean might feel living there, and to me that's the problem with her.

 

I also think that Sean would relocate for a spouse, but that's in an organic situation, where you meet, spend time together, get to know each other and fall in love.  Not when it's, "Hello, we're getting married now."

 

I agree with your last sentence but I got the impression that Sean was overwhelmed by Manhattan based on being a "country boy".  I don't really think there would have been any neighborhood that wouldn't have overwhelmed him.  I agree that the UES is probably the most overwhelming from his POV but I don't think being on Riverside Drive would have made much difference to someone who is just not a city boy at all, much less a New York city boy.  Other cities are a piece of cake compared to NY.  I think he may have been OK with moving to certain sections of Queens that were more residential or even Long Island, but I think anywhere in Manhattan would have had pretty much a similar effect on him.  It's just TOO much of a culture shock.  I have lived in CT for over 20 years and when I come back to Manhattan to visit now it doesn't matter what neighborhood I'm in, I have that "overwhelmed" feeling, so I understand how people visiting who have never really been to the place can feel about it.  I never felt that way before I moved out of NY so I couldn't relate to it then, but I think I can relate to it now.

[Janet Snakehole]

 

I also think that Sean would relocate for a spouse, but that's in an organic situation, where you meet, spend time together, get to know each other and fall in love.  Not when it's, "Hello, we're getting married now."

I agree with this so much. This is the opposite of an organic situation, so as much as the participants should be willing to compromise because they are in a marriage, I can't expect perfection. I am starting to fall on the side that these pairings were made 75 percent with the hope of tv drama.

[SaucyMommy]

She doesn't impress me at all. Everything about her screams "LOOK AT ME". She wants you to know she's made something. What I do not know but something. People like her value money over everything. Which is sad. 

[Neurochick]

True, Sean might have been okay with someplace like Douglaston Queens, or City Island in the Bronx.  You don't feel like you're in the city.  And the UES is not the place to go if you don't want to be overwhelmed.  But I don't know about culture shock, I mean Washington Heights and Riverside Drive are 180 degrees from the UES.

 

I don't think NYC is THAT difficult, just different, I mean Boston was tough because I kept getting lost and as Hampton Roads Virginia, nope, I just couldn't deal with living in a place where I had to drive to get a quart of milk, that really was annoying. 

 

But then again, if I met someone and fell in love, who knows?

Edited April 24, 2015 by Neurochick

[Bella]

I loathe having to drive everywhere, and there are a lot of advantages to living in a place like Manhattan with its density and easy mass transit. If that seems foreign to you, though, it's going to be a hard adjustment. I split that one down the middle for D&S. 

 

My cousin and his wife were visiting me when I lived in a large city. Between my home and the restaurant we visited, we drove past 3 large supermarkets. Yet my cousin's wife asked me where we went shopping since we "didn't have any stores." Turns out, she associates supermarkets with acres and acres of asphalt for parking.

 

It's all about what you're used to and what you want. Sean's commute would be insane from Manhattan, but the "experts" weren't honoring geographic deal-breakers anyway.

[Snarklepuss]

But then again, if I met someone and fell in love, who knows?

 

That's true.  People do a lot of things they wouldn't ordinarily do for love.  But this show puts people in situations that are not normal.  It puts the cart before the horse.  I think one of the reasons Jaclyn & Ryan are able to compromise so well is that they are actually developing genuine feelings for each other relatively quickly.  I think without those feelings such a big compromise would be even more difficult or impossible for them to do without ruining the relationship.  It may not be impossible for people to have feelings develop more slowly than this show gives them, but when you have to make big life decisions together before those feelings develop (like compromising on where to live), it can ruin any chances of any feelings developing at all because it puts too much stress on the relationship before it's even gotten off the ground.

[SaucyMommy]

I can't imagine how expensive grocery stores in NYC are for food. The food must be SO marked up.

[girlplease]

I can't imagine how expensive grocery stores in NYC are for food. The food must be SO marked up.

 

Some things are actually quite a bit cheaper. When I visit my parents in the rural Midwest, I'm shocked at how much they pay for produce. Costs a lot of money to move things out of the big transport hubs.

 

I think it's still a goal for people in a lot of industries to "make it" and live successfully in NYC. Davina seems to take some pride in her "New Yorker" status, and I can't begrudge her that. I do think she could stand to venture outside her comfort zone a bit more. I wonder how long she's been living there - and in that part of the city?

Edited April 24, 2015 by girlplease

[SaucyMommy]

I'm in the midwest and have lived in CA and we pay a ton less for groceries here than in CA.

[Kiss my mutt]

If Sean was so traumatized by bullying as a kid I'm surprised he's a "male nurse" a la Greg Focker! J/K

[Waterlilly]

Am watching the honeymoons now. Davina was almost giddy about the ring thing like maybe she knew it wasn't stollen. Maybe she wanted a nicer ring ( I don't know). It is interesting to watch the past episodes. She also didn't tell him that Manhattan was a deal breaker. She told him she couldn't imagine herself a Jersy girl and was excited to see where he lives. I am not taking up for Sean,but I do see them playing each other. Don't see much honesty there.

[MsPH]

If Sean was so traumatized by bullying as a kid I'm surprised he's a "male nurse" a la Greg Focker! J/K

 

And now he's being bullied online by his female co-workers too. Maybe he deserves it, maybe he doesn't, but I sure don't envy the guy. 

[Bandolero]

Davina does across as needy and overly "talky" but as someone else mentioned it is probably because she feels his disconnect. She is not falling all over him like he is probably used to and so he has detached from the whole situation. As a good-looking guy with a good job he probably has his pick of women trying to impress and keep him and Davina does not seem to be that type of woman since she is also self-involved in her own way.

 

As Sean is retreating... she is desperately trying to hold him on to him hence the neediness and all that. I think if he showed some warmth toward her it would actually help to calm her considerably.

[Jack Sampson]

Davina does across as needy and overly "talky" but as someone else mentioned it is probably because she feels his disconnect. She is not falling all over him like he is probably used to and so he has detached from the whole situation. As a good-looking guy with a good job he probably has his pick of women trying to impress and keep him and Davina does not seem to be that type of woman since she is also self-involved in her own way.

 

As Sean is retreating... she is desperately trying to hold him on to him hence the neediness and all that. I think if he showed some warmth toward her it would actually help to calm her considerably.

If Sean showed some warmth, Davina would start with the "she wants to wait until they're "in love" before having sex" talk again.  Sean knows that because it's what happened in the beginning.  They're both trying to manipulate each other, but, judging by Davina's aggressive hate on SM, I think Sean wins the game.  There's no other explanation for her continued contempt.

[Snarklepuss]

I can't imagine how expensive grocery stores in NYC are for food. The food must be SO marked up.

 

It depends.  In Manhattan, yes, it tends to be way out of proportion to anywhere else with some exceptions.  In the boroughs it varies.  I just read a website that ranked areas by the cost of food and groceries are not much more expensive in the boroughs right now than in the Hartford, CT area.  Grocery prices in the Hartford area used to be quite a bit under anywhere in NYC but not anymore.  My Dad shops in the Riverdale section of the Bronx.  He emails me his grocery bills and his prices are pretty much the same as mine.

[qtpye]

I thought there was something in the way Davina was acting that was very off putting.  I could not put my finger on what it was until my husband (He is kind enough not to leave the room when I watch these type of silly shows) said she acts like a prissy princess.

 

However, if Sean really is not spending anytime at the apartment, except for filming...then he is truly checked out of the experiment and I can understand her frustration.  Davina is probably baffled how a guy who was so into her during the honeymoon, now can not stand to be around her for five minutes.

 

I am going to theorize that Sean is going to go out of his way not to consummate the marriage, so that he can get an annulment...as opposed to a divorce.  This is pure speculation on my part as I know nothing about New York/New Jersey divorce laws and whether non consummation would allow for the annulment.

 

I also want to say if Sean is not going to sleep with Davina for the remainder of the experiment...I would not be surprised if he was getting his physical needs met elsewhere.

 

I bet that Sean and Davina consummate there marriage next episode and turn all my theories into dust.  I am also a little creeped out about how I am a little to invested in someone else's love life.  Getting married on t.v. is definitely a very strange animal.

[Neurochick]

It depends.  In Manhattan, yes, it tends to be way out of proportion to anywhere else with some exceptions.  In the boroughs it varies.  I just read a website that ranked areas by the cost of food and groceries are not much more expensive in the boroughs right now than in the Hartford, CT area.  Grocery prices in the Hartford area used to be quite a bit under anywhere in NYC but not anymore.  My Dad shops in the Riverdale section of the Bronx.  He emails me his grocery bills and his prices are pretty much the same as mine.

 

Depends on where you go in Manhattan.  Trader Joe's or Fairway or Path Mark is cheaper than Whole Foods, and C-Town and Pioneer are cheaper as well.  However, the UES is more expensive than Riverdale.  

 

One thing I think is interesting, in the past the woman was always the one who was expected to move, because women, many times aren't the breadwinners in a relationship.  With Sean and Davina, I'm seeing this change.  I wonder if Davina would have moved had the relationship been more organic and natural, met someone, fell in love, etc.  Another question is that does Davina know how to drive?  That might be a reason she doesn't want to leave Manhattan.

[Snarklepuss]

Depends on where you go in Manhattan.  Trader Joe's or Fairway or Path Mark is cheaper than Whole Foods, and C-Town and Pioneer are cheaper as well.  However, the UES is more expensive than Riverdale.  

 

One thing I think is interesting, in the past the woman was always the one who was expected to move, because women, many times aren't the breadwinners in a relationship.  With Sean and Davina, I'm seeing this change.  I wonder if Davina would have moved had the relationship been more organic and natural, met someone, fell in love, etc.  Another question is that does Davina know how to drive?  That might be a reason she doesn't want to leave Manhattan.

 

For sure, you are so right - And there's also D'Agostino and Gristedes for being expensive, although there aren't as many of them anymore.  I like Fairway.  I often go to the one in Pelham Manor when I visit my Dad. 

 

I am finding this show interesting because when I was young it was the man's career that usually took precedence.  Women were often eager to relocate and find a new job to follow their husbands.  Then again most of them didn't have big careers, but jobs they could easily find somewhere else.  The thing about the women on this show is that they don't want to have to uproot themselves if it means finding a new job.  They think their careers are just as important as their husbands.   And they should feel that way, but in the end someone's going to have to be the more flexible one.  I'm not seeing either the men or women on this show being so flexible that they would move for the other if it meant finding employment in a new area.  Then again if any of these couples were really "in love" I think each of them would be willing to move heaven and earth to meet on common ground regarding where to live.  I am remembering that chat board I was on almost 20 years ago.  A lot of people met and fell in love through that board and most of them were long distance.  It was amazing because you'd think they wouldn't work out but I know of at least 4 or 5 cases where one party relocated for the other, often to another part of the country.  I one case a man relocated from the U.S. to Australia for love.  At least 3 of these couples are all still together that I know of, BTW.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[Neurochick]

 Then again if any of these couples were really "in love" I think each of them would be willing to move heaven and earth to meet on common ground regarding where to live.  I am remembering that chat board I was on almost 20 years ago.  A lot of people met and fell in love through that board and most of them were long distance.  It was amazing because you'd think they wouldn't work out but I know if at least 4 or 5 cases where one party relocated for the other, often to another part of the country.  I one case a man relocated from the U.S. to Australia for love.  At least 3 of these couples are all still together that I know of, BTW.

 

Twenty years ago the economy was in a different place.  I can't see a person today quitting their job to move to a place where they might not be able to find a job at all.  

[biakbiak]

Another question is that does Davina know how to drive? That might be a reason she doesn't want to leave Manhattan.

She drove in the holiday episode to her friends parents house in 'M and then drove to Sean's house, they showed her in the car.

[Snarklepuss]

Twenty years ago the economy was in a different place.  I can't see a person today quitting their job to move to a place where they might not be able to find a job at all.  

 

Sure, if you're talking about a place where it's hard to find a job.  These people are all moving to NYC, where it's easier to find a job than a lot of places (according to Forbes' Best Cities for Jobs 2014 and other similar lists).  It's certainly much easier in my line of work than where I live right now!  I still think that if they were in love they would have more confidence about the relationship and be more willing and optimistic about attempting a job change.

[LennieBriscoe]

IMO, it's not about finding a job, getting along, compromising, or even about love---it's about personal comfort and needs.

 

I live in suburban PA not far from NYC; I have relatives living in apartments in Jersey City and Bayonne. I do the "drive for a quart of milk," but I've also done the "walk the city blocks to get the groceries" bit. IMO, the latter schlepping gets old when the person does! And that's ignoring things like weather.

 

Physical space requirements are important.  If Sean needs a house and yard while Davina requires much less space to be happy as long as her space is in Manhattan, so be it. Neither party is "right" or "better" or even more sophisticated than the other. It's not like she's spending her days in a museum and her nights at the ballet. If Sean is feeling closed in, why should he need to change?

[Snarklepuss]

I could see a situation where someone like Davina might be willing to move to a more residential house in Brooklyn but it would mean she had already invested herself in a relationship to the point where she did the cost/benefit analysis and was willing to make such a compromise.  Even if it might happen one day with someone, I don't think it would ever happen with Sean.  I remember on SATC when Miranda moved out to Brooklyn because of her marriage to Steve and her child.  She really didn't want to leave Manhattan but her commitment to her family made her feelings change on the relocation.  The thing is, can Sean afford to wait it out to see if Davina might change her mind about that to compromise with him?  I think he realizes that's not going to happen by this point and it's not worth the risk of uprooting himself and finding a new job so she can be near the City.  They're just not that into each other and it doesn't look like it's going to change.  I think Sean probably acted more flexible than he really was and made it sound like he would be very willing to relocate to Manhattan for the right person but of course Sean is not ready for the right person even if it WAS Davina, so it screwed everything up.

[qtpye]

I think Davina thinks living in Manhattan is an accomplishment unto itself and it makes up a great part of her self esteem (which is not healthy).

 

If you took their personalities aside and told me a nurse was marrying a pharmaceutical sales rep, I would definitely say the nurse is the person with the most respectable career.  I would also say the nurse is more accomplished career wise, regardless of salaries, because I know it is not easy to become a RN.

 

There is nothing wrong with sales.  My mother was in sales and she made great living doing it.  I should also say my mother was a naturally warm and charismatic person, who worked very hard to meet her client's needs.  She did not just flirt with doctors to push a whole bunch of unnecessary drugs. I am not saying that Davina does this, but as someone said up thread, pharma reps have a bit of a sleazy reputation (though I am sure there are honorable ones out there).

 

Even though Davina makes very good money, her job is probably not automatically respected in her peer group, because it has a low bar of entry.  Her being resident of Manhattan gives her the aura of respect and sophistication that she so desperately desires.

 

Sean does not feel strongly enough about Davina to justify (at least in his mind) all the sacrifices he is making for their marriage, up front.  I could almost see the thought bubble over his head saying," I have a perfectly good size house in Jersey that could easily accommodate the both of us (not to mention Jersey is a great place for big pharma) and I have to pay a fortune for this shoebox and drive three hours to work."

Edited April 26, 2015 by qtpye

[MsPH]

I definitely value Sean's line of work over Davina's drug pushing, and he even has a Master's degree in it, so he's pretty accomplished. I also think he realized soon after setting foot in Manhattan that he's getting the short end of the stick. I think both Sean and Davina went into this expecting some kind of a fairytale where they meet, sparks fly and everything will magically sort itself out. Well they managed to fool themselves into thinking that for a couple of days before reality set in. Now he's got a 2-hour commute, a tiny closet of an apartment and a demanding princess for a wife. If he wants kids as much as he claimed, then Davina and her new, probably 1-bedroom, apartment in Manhattan she's not willing to ever leave are a pretty crappy deal. Maybe it would help if she actually did something to show she cares, but so far she's just talked his ear off about everything he does wrong.

[Jack Sampson]

I think Davina thinks living in Manhattan is an accomplishment unto itself and it makes up a great part of her self esteem (which is not healthy).

 

If you took their personalities aside and told me a nurse was marrying a pharmaceutical sales rep, I would definitely say the nurse is the person with the most respectable career.  I would also say the nurse is more accomplished career wise, regardless of salaries, because I know it is not easy to become a RN.

 

There is nothing wrong with sales.  My mother was in sales and she made great living doing it.  I should also say my mother was a naturally warm and charismatic person, who worked very hard to meet her client's needs.  She did not just flirt with doctors to push a whole bunch of unnecessary drugs. I am not saying that Davina does this, but as someone said up thread, pharma reps have a bit of a sleazy reputation (though I am sure there are honorable ones out there).

 

Even though Davina makes very good money, her job is probably not automatically respected in her peer group, because it has a low bar of entry.  Her being resident of Manhattan gives her the aura of respect and sophistication that she so desperately desires.

 

Sean does not feel strongly enough about Davina to justify (at least in his mind) all the sacrifices he is making for their marriage, up front.  I could almost see the thought bubble over his head saying," I have a perfectly good size house in Jersey that could easily accommodate the both of us (not to mention Jersey is a great place for big pharma) and I have to pay a fortune for this shoebox and drive three hours to work."

Davina makes decent money now, but pharmaceutical sales has an expiration date.  Davina's smart enough to realize that she's nearing the end of her sales career and I think she wanted a husband who could afford to support her.  Sean could do that in NJ, but not UES.  She may have waited 5 years too long to start looking for that guy.

I definitely value Sean's line of work over Davina's drug pushing, and he even has a Master's degree in it, so he's pretty accomplished. I also think he realized soon after setting foot in Manhattan that he's getting the short end of the stick. I think both Sean and Davina went into this expecting some kind of a fairytale where they meet, sparks fly and everything will magically sort itself out. Well they managed to fool themselves into thinking that for a couple of days before reality set in. Now he's got a 2-hour commute, a tiny closet of an apartment and a demanding princess for a wife. If he wants kids as much as he claimed, then Davina and her new, probably 1-bedroom, apartment in Manhattan she's not willing to ever leave are a pretty crappy deal. Maybe it would help if she actually did something to show she cares, but so far she's just talked his ear off about everything he does wrong.

And Davina's pushing the deadline for kids.

[HappilyEverAfter]

I think Davina thinks living in Manhattan is an accomplishment unto itself and it makes up a great part of her self esteem (which is not healthy).

 

If you took their personalities aside and told me a nurse was marrying a pharmaceutical sales rep, I would definitely say the nurse is the person with the most respectable career.  I would also say the nurse is more accomplished career wise, regardless of salaries, because I know it is not easy to become a RN.

 

There is nothing wrong with sales.  My mother was in sales and she made great living doing it.  I should also say my mother was a naturally warm and charismatic person, who worked very hard to meet her client's needs.  She did not just flirt with doctors to push a whole bunch of unnecessary drugs. I am not saying that Davina does this, but as someone said up thread, pharma reps have a bit of a sleazy reputation (though I am sure there are honorable ones out there).

 

Even though Davina makes very good money, her job is probably not automatically respected in her peer group, because it has a low bar of entry.  Her being resident of Manhattan gives her the aura of respect and sophistication that she so desperately desires.

 

Sean does not feel strongly enough about Davina to justify (at least in his mind) all the sacrifices he is making for their marriage, up front.  I could almost see the thought bubble over his head saying," I have a perfectly good size house in Jersey that could easily accommodate the both of us (not to mention Jersey is a great place for big pharma) and I have to pay a fortune for this shoebox and drive three hours to work."

I agree with the bolded. Jobs can be what you make them. Some salemen may be sleazy but most work hard and put in long hours and all aren't sleazy. That is a narrow minded way to look at groups of people who do a certain job. I have seen sleazy actions in many professions. Military recruiters can be snakes because they often promise young men whatever they are asking for "great location, upwardly mobile job" and then once they sign on the dotted line all promises are gone. Young men forget talk is cheap and don't get it in writing. Like recruiters for online colleges that talk out of both sides of their mouth (Phoenix & Kaplan come to mind)who promise the attainable easy degree for less time invested and less money when in the end it is alot of time and more dollars spent then if that person had gone to a regular college. The recruiters rake in the commissions and you are just a number so who is sleazy? Car salemen are yet another profession where sleaze is supposedly prominent yet I have met a few honest ones who tell you upfront "Don't buy the car if you don't plan to spend lots of $ replacing things. "  My cousin is a pharm salesperson and definitely not sleazy and is happily married. She travels alot and works hard but it is a stepping stone to open other doors she hopes.  

[HumblePi]

All I can say about Davina is that she's a great big huge pain in the ass. She's a complaining, bitching, spoiled, sniveling, high-maintenance train wreck. (she looks cross-eyed sometime too). Needless to say, I don't like Davina one bit. Even the sulking baby face she made when David said he had to leave so he could go to work. He's an ER nurse for cripes sake there is real responsibility there. Does she care? Nope, not a bit. She only cared that she'd have to spend the first night in the apartment SHE insisted on alone without him. I just cannot stand Davina. She's going to either get a divorce and stay single forever, or fall in love with a man that doesn't take shit from her.

 

Edited April 26, 2015 by HumblePi

[SaucyMommy]

Education recruiters do not make commission. That's not allowed in the industry. Not all online schools are sleazy and expensive. I work in the industry and have for years. Also pharmaceutical sales is not sleazy. Many drug companies provide free samples via these reps. It may not be a profession you agree with but its an honest living.

[Neurochick]

I remember on SATC when Miranda moved out to Brooklyn because of her marriage to Steve and her child.  She really didn't want to leave Manhattan but her commitment to her family made her feelings change on the relocation.

 

 

I remember when that happened on SATC, and it bothered me.  Maybe Davina feels as I do, why is it always the woman who has to move?  

 

However, I think the reason why Miranda moved to Brooklyn was really because Steve had a house there and they needed more space for the baby.  Also, didn't she end up taking care of his mother?  (again, the woman is always the one who has to take care of everybody.)

[sleekandchic]

I'm feeling sorry for every single person on the show at this point. These aren't bad people by any means, but since they're human and I'm human too, I like some of their personality traits while not caring for a few others. Nobody's perfect.

Still, for whatever their reasons, each person decided to try out for happiness via a reality show. I bet most of them are sorry now.

Specific to this thread, I continue to be confused by Sean's early mental checkout on the experiment. Since he's friends with Doug and his family, for example, surely Sean was aware that Doug had moved from his comfortable NJ home to a shoebox in the city with Jamie. I know the men's situations weren't identical, but the basics are the same. Sean seems as though he's unwilling to continue on through the entire six weeks. It's a puzzle. Two or three weeks in, and the work commute is so overwhelming that he cannot bear to grit his teeth for a couple of more weeks?

I keep thinking of him trying to reassure his shocked mom. He said, "if it doesn't work, I'll just get a divorce!" He was so glib and breezy about it. The experts didn't do their due diligence, imo.

One important element that should be emphasized next season is to tone down the great expectations to reasonable and realistic hopes.

[Luciano]

I remember when that happened on SATC, and it bothered me. Maybe Davina feels as I do, why is it always the woman who has to move?

However, I think the reason why Miranda moved to Brooklyn was really because Steve had a house there and they needed more space for the baby. Also, didn't she end up taking care of his mother? (again, the woman is always the one who has to take care of everybody.)

[OT]Steve moved into Miranda's apartment and later on they made the decision to buy a Brooklyn townhouse when the apartment got too small. According to Miranda, Steve took care of his mother when he wasn't at work.[/OT]

I think the last time I saw these two have genuine fun on the show was when they made snow angels. They're just dreary. If they are still together, I still see the possibility of Sean breaking up with her via post-it ("I'm sorry. I can't, it's just too small.").

Edited April 27, 2015 by Luciano

[Snarklepuss]

LOL, break up with her via post-it, ala Berger!  I could totally see Sean doing that right now.

[fabdarling]

We are going to make Sean and Davina so talked about I can already see them showing up on other reality shows. Sean...the new Bachelor, Davina a Real Housewife of Manhattan. :-)

[HappilyEverAfter]

Education recruiters do not make commission. That's not allowed in the industry. Not all online schools are sleazy and expensive. I work in the industry and have for years. Also pharmaceutical sales is not sleazy. Many drug companies provide free samples via these reps. It may not be a profession you agree with but its an honest living.

Glad you have had a change of mind from thinking pharmaceutical sales is a sleazy job! (comparing to Paychex in a prior thread which makes me need a shower)

Edited April 27, 2015 by HappilyEverAfter

[SaucyMommy]

Pharmaceutical reps can be decent human beings - not all but some :) And Paychex. Don't get me started. I've had many friends in that industry and those that have worked in it haven't been the most honest. I work in a recruiting position. And I value my integrity and I'm glad I am not in a commission based position. We call that in my house "commission breath" :)

[harmonic42]

Really disappointed in Davina. I felt sorry for her in the beginning - no family visited, which means she grew up starving for any kind of affection, and is now doomed to a life of needing too much affection from the men in her relationships. That's probably something she'll never entirely get over.

 

But she's not really taking enough action to toughen up. She is physically beautiful and financially successful, and this gives her an emotional crutch - she can rely on these things to give her a desperately-needed sense of self worth. But it's obvious that she's a house of cards waiting to come crashing down.

 

Unfortunately, her new husband is in a similar situation, but instead of blaming the world for all his ever-present issues, he shoulders it all onto himself. Dude needs to get some self-esteem, and NOW. And once he gets it, he'll realize what a disaster this marriage with Davina is and run for the hills.

[Neurochick]

This is OT but maybe on topic since it's about Davina's "shoebox" apartment.  Seems there was a time when people didn't need to live in McMansions with large back yards, spa tubs, big ass family rooms and cathedral ceilings; and it was okay.  Today it seems like even one person needs a ton of space.  My issue is, who's going to clean all that?

[MsPH]

I think there are plenty of options between a shoebox and a mansion. I prefer smaller as well and have no desire for extra rooms to clean, but I also need room to clean, I mean actual space to move around in with a hoover. And my things need to have a place, preferably behind closed doors. I lived in a tiny place for years and it was an absolute nightmare to clean, since my stuff didn't fit anywhere and I had to pick things up and move them around while cleaning. I still live in a small one-bedroom apartment, but Davina and Sean's interim apartment made me feel claustrophobic just looking at it. Maybe it's bigger in person, but what I saw through the screen made me uncomfortable. It doesn't help that you can see walls through the windows. I need some natural light.

[SaucyMommy]

It would be hard for Sean to go from a Townhouse to a tiny studio/1 bedroom. I mean that's a huge difference. I don't think he has an overly large home. I agree with MsPH that there is definitely middle ground. I had a teeny home and it got filthy from all the stuff I had in it. We have a larger home now and it doesn't get as dirty because we aren't using all the space all the time. You would be amazed. Sean's reaction is not abnormal. I would have a hard time going to a tiny studio too. For many people that would feel like a step back not forward.

[Jack Sampson]

I lived for 2 years in a studio apartment in Manhattan Beach, CA - it was a little bigger than S&D's place.  It was fine for just me, at the beach, when I spent most of my time outdoors.  But I couldn't do it with either another person or anywhere the weather wasn't beautiful all year long.  It got cramped just having my girlfriend over for a night, no way I could have lived with her.

[Bella]

We could take this housing discussion to the Small Talk thread. I'm going to retitle it so that it doesn't look like it's just for relationship talk.

[MsPH]

I wanted to know if the apartment really is as small it looks, and apparently it is. 2 bedrooms crammed in 475 sqft. That's smaller than my 1 bed. Poor Sean.

[Snarklepuss]

Sure, it's small, but it's only temporary and I'm getting the feeling Davina's new apartment is going to be much bigger.

[Trixie Belden]

I think your tolerance/need for space is entirely dependent on how your relationship is going.  If you're not happy with the person you're living with, you need somewhere to get away.  It gets boring hiding in the one bathroom during all your waking hours.  If you're into the person, 475 sq feet is perfectly fine.  This is more about the state of their "relationship" than the apt size.

[Snarklepuss]

I think a lot of people (myself included) need more space no matter how into the person we are living with.  Mr. Snarklepuss and I would be unhappy living in such a small space.  Not unhappy with each other, but unhappy in general with it.  Both of us need our personal space for alone time or we tend to get on each other's nerves.  Note that we once lived in about 600 square feet and were OK, but it wasn't ideal.  But 475?  That's really small....A girl needs room for her SHOES!!

[essexjan]

I think the Upper East Side is definitely the wrong neighbourhood for Sean's first experience of NYC living. It's pretty characterless, imho. And for the money, what you get is miniscule.

 

If Davina had been in any way prepared to compromise, the Upper West Side would have been a much better choice - an easier commute to Jersey, and a lovely area, close to both Central Park and Riverside Park. But if Davina insisted on being east, then a few blocks north would have got a lot more bang for the buck. A friend of mine used to live at 1500 Lexington, a big new apartment block on the corner of Lex & 96th St. Probably too close to Harlem for Davina, but a buzzing neighbourhood, on the 6 Line, plenty of stores and restaurants, near the park and about $3,700 for 740sq ft.

 

The ultimate compromise would be Riverdale up in the Bronx - a beautiful neighbourhood, not like being in New York City at all, yet still part of it. But compromise doesn't seem to be a word that's in Davina's vocabulary.

[Liberty]

Found it particularly alarming in the NYE episode that Sean talked to "Dr. Joseph" rather than Dr. Cilona.  Maybe a newer more hip way to refer to PSYDs, but still reduces the authority of the PSYD and moves the PSYD closer to the peer level.

 

When Davina returned from 'running errands' after Sean had talked to "Dr. Joseph" it was totally manipulative of Sean to tell her 'he said we should do this.... he said we should do that...he said we blah, blah, blah'.  Number 1, a PSYD should not be talking to one client about what another client 'should be doing', and Number 2 Sean should not portray to Davina that "Dr. Joseph" was discussing with him what her behavior should be.

 

If Davina believes Sean, she should see that "Dr. Joseph" behaves unethically.  If she does not believe "Dr. Joseph" behaves unethically she should see her husband is manipulative.

[joobie]

These two are my least favorite with Davina being the person I like least on this show. I started out feeling sorry for Davina because Sean just seemed too deperate and needy and fast. Then Davina became the needy one wanting the fairy tale romance and all blah blah blah. Me me me what about me? Davina moved one block. Way to really put yourself out there. I can feel the walls closing in on me being with her. Her apartment, her city, her high paying job. Sean has nothing there that is his. A solid marriage will never be successful if one spouse loses everything of themselves and the other justs takes it all without giving.