S05.E16: Conquer

[lulee]

Ah, thanks for the correction, Nashville

[kj4ever]

Here here to your entire post, NoWillToResist! The above would make logical sense. But then we wouldn't have the visual of blood-and-guts covered Rick - complete with crazy eyes - interrupting the camp and dramatically dropping a Walker in front of them, plus we wouldn't have the stories about how Rick is a good person. It's like they wrote themselves into a bit of a corner and said fuck it! Leave it as is.

Seriously if they were going for the dramatic Rick should have brought one of them alive and let God sort the rest out.  Can you imagine that scene?

[kikismom]

*grin* You try reading through *checks thread number* FIVE HUNDRED + posts. You guys are insane! But always insightful and fun!

 

I was wondering how you enjoyed the number of posts on the Live Chat thread :-D

 

 The finale reaffirmed what I thought about this town and their leader from the start.  There was no sinister motive or hidden agenda. 

 

I loved the finale. That said, I was a little disappointed there was no sinister motive or hidden agenda. Then they would be smart people just pretending to be stupid.

I wouldn't say they were naive either; I see that used a lot, but I think there is a big difference between naivete and denial.

 

Unless the meeting was being held in DC itself and Rick had to run there from Alexandria, it still shouldn't have been dark. At the end of the day, it was sloppy work by the crew.

My feeling is that there is a missing "deleted" scene. But it wasn't deleted till close to airtime and then it was too late to bridge the light difference. I think there would have been a scene with Rick doing more searching for walkers but perhaps someone realized Hey, won't that make viewers ask how he didn't see Pete running amok or see Pete go in Rick's house and get the katana or something, so they cut it and now the scene jumps from light to dark night.

[kj4ever]

"Master! Dinner is pre-pared!"

 

Photo recap!

Was there no recap for "Try", or did I just miss it?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So, I just figured out the perfect instant reaction shot from Daryl, that we missed out on the opportunity of seeing during that scene when he got all medieval with those metal links.

 

*quick snorting smirk*  "Chained"

[English Teacher]

I'm not sure if I am allowed to mention TTD here so if I break a forum rule please forgive me. But I was very intrigued by the letter Chris read at the end that indicated that humans will not be the biggest threat next season. Does that mean the Wolves are not that big of a threat? Or are the wolves not viewed as fully human? Or is a mutant zombie coming? Something worse? I'm not making it to next season.

[kikismom]

Was there no recap for "Try", or did I just miss it?

There wasn't one; the guy got trapped at work and decided that he'd let it go.

Judging by this one, he is still trapped at work.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

What the actual fuck does that mean? Were they violent? Did they stink? Did they steal chocolate?

 

We know it wasn't due to stinkiness. If it were, CDB never would have made it past the gates.

[kikismom]

I'm not sure if I am allowed to mention TTD here so if I break a forum rule please forgive me. But I was very intrigued by the letter Chris read at the end that indicated that humans will not be the biggest threat next season. Does that mean the Wolves are not that big of a threat? Or are the wolves not viewed as fully human? Or is a mutant zombie coming? Something worse? I'm not making it to next season.

Taking to TTD thread.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Was there no recap for "Try", or did I just miss it?

 

Yeah, what gives?

 

 

"Master! Dinner is pre-pared!"

    

    Photo recap!

 

"But Dad, I'm Starving."

"Hi Starving, I'm Dad."

"....."

[NoWillToResist]

We know it wasn't due to stinkiness. If it were, CDB never would have made it past the gates.

 

Well, maybe that used to be one of their metrics but they've lost so many people due to their own stupidity and selfishness that they had to relax that rule to boost their enrolment numbers... :)

 

I'd like to know what Aaron's recruitment plan was for poncho man. I mean, I get that he immediately invited Morgan into the fold because he'd demonstrated bravery, heroism, grit and a good heart. But what about poncho guy? The dude was wandering all alone. Would Aaron have tailed him indefinitely to wait and see how he interacted with other people? Like, if he doesn't immediately try to murder/eat the stranger, he's good for ASZ?

 

And I have to say a hearty 'fuck off' to Daryl when they were discussing the danger of the Wolves. I had hoped that once they encountered that poor woman tied to the tree, they'd go back to ASZ to at least warn them. Instead they carried on, driving aimlessly looking for people? WTF? Aaron was all "there are bad people out here" and Daryl was more interested in gathering more people rather than going home to warn HIS FAMILY that there are crazy, murderous, violent psychopaths just outside their door??

Edited April 1, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[English Teacher]

The Febreeze and NR fan were the highlights.

Taking to TTD thread.

Lol. Didn't realize there was one ! Thank you!!

[Mick Lady]

A couple of "Conquer" dialog excerpts to help resolve some previous topics of discussion: *

 

-----------------

21 minutes into the episode - conversation between Daryl and Aaron:

 

Daryl: You’ve sent people away?

Aaron: Yeah.

Daryl: What happened?

Aaron: It was early on.  It was three people.  Two men and a woman. Davidson was their leader.  Smart as hell, strong.  I though they’d work out.  They didn’t. I brought them in, and I had to see them out.  So me, Aiden, and Nicholas, we drove them out, far, gave them a day’s worth of food and water and left them.

Daryl: They just went?

Aaron: We had their guns.  We had all the guns.  I can’t make that kind of mistake again.

 

---------------------

1 hour 22 minutes into the episode - last fight between Glenn and Nicholas:

 

Glenn: Noah died because of you.  And I tried to tell you how it is, how it has to be - and you try to kill me!?!?

Nicholas: <whimpers as Glenn puts pistol to Nicholas’ forehead> I was scared. I was scared.  I don’t belong out here.

Glenn: Shut up.

Nicholas: I was scared. I was just scared. 

Glenn: Shut up.

Nicholas: I don’t - I don’t belong…

Glenn: SHUT UP!

Nicholas: I don’t belong out here.  i don’t.

Glenn: Shut up.

Nicholas: <sobs hysterically, pees himself, shits pants, screams like a virgin on prom night, etc., etc.> **

Glenn: <removes gun from Nicholas’ forehead>

 

-------------------------

* Thank god for closed captioning.

 

** Ok, maybe not entirely accurate. Nicholas does not scream like a virgin on prom night.  He screams worse.

 

This is late, but I've been busy. Thank you Nashville ! 

 

[TexasChic]

No, this really bothered me as well. Maggie was hell bent on finding FPP, but she didn't utter a single word about Glenn. They even talked about the meeting that morning, so you'd think she'd be concerned when her husband didn't show up for it, especially after Rick alerts them to the fact that walkers are on the loose. But no, she's all "Glenn? Glenn who?" It's Beth-amnesia 2.0. 

When Deanna said they were going to start, Maggie said Glen & Rick weren't there yet, but Deanna said they weren't waiting any longer. But I do think she should have been more concerned that he (and Rick!) weren't at such an important meeting. I guess she went the first place she could think to look that would do the most good - FPP's place.

Edited April 2, 2015 by TexasChic

[AllyS]

That was such a glaring mistake, I agree. Rick's at the gate, it's bright outside. Next scene, it's fully dark. How long did he run around the town for, looking for Walkers that NO ONE else in the town noticed. Did they mistake the Walkers for Pete the Drunken Stumbling Doctor Fool?? It's not like they are hiding and moving fast. Just so weird.

No, but Dr. Jack Daniels does.

[Raven1707]

We have talked about it here but there are so many posts to read. Back in the episode Them, when they meet Aaron, they learn that the ASZ has 30 people. CDB had 15. Then Noah died and Aiden died. Down to 43.  Now we know that Reg and Pete are dead, that makes 41. But will Morgan join; I would guess that would make 42.

 

I'll have to review my notes again, but it couldn't have been "Them"; Aaron only showed up at the very end:

 

Aaron: Hey. Hi. (Sasha and Maggie stand and point their weapons at him) I didn’t mean to interrupt. Good morning. My name is Aaron. I know, stranger danger. But I’m a friend. I’d like to talk to the person in charge. Rick, right?

Maggie: How do you know–

Sasha: Why?

Aaron: I have good news.

(Music box begins to play)

 

 

 

 

I know Carol had medical training from Hershel but did she ever do surgery?

 

Well, there was that walker she practiced performing a c-section on...

[raven]

 

"Master! Dinner is pre-pared!"

 

Photo recap!

"At least I've got a few hours of daylight left."

 

"Oh shit"

 

Hee!

[morgankobi]

We have talked about it here but there are so many posts to read. Back in the episode Them, when they meet Aaron, they learn that the ASZ has 30 people. CDB had 15. Then Noah died and Aiden died. Down to 43.  Now we know that Reg and Pete are dead, that makes 41. But will Morgan join; I would guess that would make 42.

 

 

Actually, I believe the number 30 came from a comic book reader. It was one of those things, like the term ASZ, that no one seemed to consider a spoiler, and we just incorporated it into conversation.

Edited April 2, 2015 by morgankobi

[kj4ever]

Actually, I believe the number 30 came from a comic book reader. It was one of those things, like the term ASZ, that no one seemed to consider a spoiler, and we just incorporated it into conversation.

Tovah said the number in an interview too.

[Bad Example]

Actually, I believe the number 30 came from a comic book reader. It was one of those things, like the term ASZ, that no one seemed to consider a spoiler, and we just incorporated it into conversation.

 

No matter where the term came from, I'm pretty sure we adopted ASZ mostly because we wanted to call them Aszhats.  Who wouldn't?  

[kikismom]

I'll have to review my notes again, but it couldn't have been "Them"; Aaron only showed up at the very end:

 

 

 

 Actually, I believe the number 30 came from a comic book reader. It was one of those things, like the term ASZ, that no one seemed to consider a spoiler, and we just incorporated it into conversation.

You're right, it wasn't in Them. But it wasn't in the comic; in the comic Douglas says that Rick's group brings the population up to sixty people.

[missy jo]

I agree that Maggie's accent is awful. She almost seems to add a lisp to some words, and I don't get that.

 

 

It was actually the first time I've even noticed her accent in awhile. Definitely more pronounced.

[North of Eden]

What the heck kind of cliffhanger was that? Rick shoots a douche just a Morgan arrives? That is what the show leaves you with to build anticipation over the summer. Lame...just lame.

 

Anyway its sad a good guy like Architect Husband dies and Nick is still drawing a breath...I so wanted Glenn to pull the trigger.

 

Red Poncho Guy. Some how I feel like he will be someone we see in the spinoff who survies trials on the west coast only to make it all the way to DC just to get Wolfganged.

[Yolapukka]

 

Actually, I believe the number 30 came from a comic book reader. It was one of those things, like the term ASZ, that no one seemed to consider a spoiler, and we just incorporated it into conversation.

 

Tovah said the number in an interview too.

 

She did, I was unclear if that was canon or her estimate based on the number of named characters and extras she encountered. It works, though there could easily be more people depending on the size of families and how many people other than CDB are sharing a house.

[NoWillToResist]

Anyway its sad a good guy like Architect Husband dies

 

Aidan, one of the original wall builders, is dead.

Noah, the apprentice, is dead.

Reg, the architect of the wall, is dead.

 

The only other person still around who put up the wall, IIRC, is Reg and Deanna's other son, whose actual contribution seems to be 'bringing the pretty'. I suspect he followed instructions but didn't actually internalize any useful information in the building process.

 

In short, the wall is doomed. :D

[lulee]

Aidan, one of the original wall builders, is dead.

Noah, the apprentice, is dead.

Reg, the architect of the wall, is dead.

 

The only other person still around who put up the wall, IIRC, is Reg and Deanna's other son, whose actual contribution seems to be 'bringing the pretty'. I suspect he followed instructions but didn't actually internalize any useful information in the building process.

 

In short, the wall is doomed. :D

Au contraire, construction foreman Abraham is going to be all over that job.

[Jordan27]

I'm confused about one thing: are we supposed to have feelings about Red Poncho?

Red Poncho = Red Shirt.  So no, not really.

[Jordan27]

That was more of a series of vignettes in a day in the life of the ZA than a season finale.  Lots and lots of nice small things and some WTF moments but they still managed to go a full 90 minutes and not feel like they were really getting anywhere.

 

Well, I think that is the point.  They aren't going anywhere.  We've had them on the road on every season finale except for 3.  Time for them to set a spell.

 

I am glad we're finally going to get Morgan with the whole group.  Deanna is apparently just fine with having someone killed when it's one of her own getting hurt.  And who knew that zombies could be effectively handled with mall music and a strobe light?  This would have been a very different show if anybody had figured that out sooner.

 

It's long been known that lights and sounds attract walkers.  But, who had mall music and strobe lights?  Rave on.

Preston IS an idiot. He needs to be put in the corner and barred for life from gate duty.

Yep, his main duty is to protect the compound and make sure the gate is locked and he cavalierly asks the Preacher to do it.  Because he has such pressing business to attend to.  Put a red shirt on him. 

[Jordan27]

 

My longest-running problem with TWD has always been the dialogue. This is not how real people talk. The writers think they're being profound and capturing an older way of speaking that used to be more common in the south, but it just doesn't work. That meeting at the end was so damn frustrating because...no one talks like that. No one communicates in so many half sentences that are as vague as possible. "The things we've seen....terrible things....things you haven't seen..." Jesus. EXPLAIN. Tell them very specifically about the things, about Terminus and the Governor, tell them about how Grady operated, tell them about the biker gang that almost raped Carl. Tell them how Lori had to have her baby cut out of her and Carl had to put her down. Tell them about Noah's community and the Unfair Wolves. Tell them about how everyone is already infected. Use your words.

 

I think there is a twofold reason for this...

 

1.  As time has went on, characters are less likely to talk about their experiences because it's too painful and where does one begin considering everything that's happened to them. 

 

2.  Since we the audience have already seen everything happen, it would be redundant from a series reason to rehash earlier experiences to any great length.

 

But, perhaps, a small explanation would have helped.

[Jordan27]

Look guys I found this exclusive preview of Carol about to take on the wolves next season

I'm getting the feeling she's not delivering a casserole this time.  :)

[AndySmith]

My longest-running problem with TWD has always been the dialogue. This is not how real people talk. The writers think they're being profound and capturing an older way of speaking that used to be more common in the south, but it just doesn't work.

 

Profound is more artsy or something.

[Jordan27]

So the Wolves just set traps to kill people for the hell of it.  And not even necessarily the enjoyment of watching them die (the truck trap was unattended and someone would be long dead before they showed up to check on it).  And are the Wolves supposed to be the people the ASZ exiled. 

 

Not so.  The trap was set up to trap people.  If the people were alive or dead didn't matter.  Their supplies would still be there.  We don't know if the people exiled became part of the Wolves or have anything to do with them.

 

I don't think Morgan is going to be in conflict over killing someone evil.  Despite his 'all life is precious', he had no problem leaving the Wolves doucebags to die a horrible death.   

 

Not so. He put them in the car to save them.

I love Norman Reedus and the character he portrays. That scene with him and Aaron in the vehicle surrounded by walkers smacked of those cliff hangers the old school Batman TV show used to pull. "Is this the end of Aaron and Daryl?" 

 

..."Are they about to become walker chow?!?!?  Hold onto to your bows and arrows and say a prayer.  Same Walker time.  Same Walker channel.......

 

I loved it.

[Jordan27]

And no matter where Rick Grimes and company go, misery, death and chaos soon follow.

 

But, there are always cookies, casseroles and flowers.  Wait, don't look at the flowers....

Au contraire, construction foreman Abraham is going to be all over that job.

That's because he knows sh** about sh**.   :)

Edited April 2, 2015 by Jordan27

[Nashville]

That's because he knows sh** about sh**.   :)

 

You never know, though.

Abraham might pull off some outrageously silly shit.

Like, I dunno... putting braces on the INSIDE of the walls, maybe...?

[AndySmith]

putting braces on the INSIDE of the walls, maybe...?

 

But...that doesn't make any sense!

[kikismom]

With Daryl and Aaron in the car, I remembered how Aaron got all fussy about the applesauce---at the worst possible time. I could see Daryl saying Just let me finish this last cigarette and then I will sacrifice my life to let you escape alive and Aaron would say Eeuuuw! Second-hand smoke! Don't get that nasty smell on my Eddie Bauer barn coat! Yuk! Don't you know that smoking is going to ruin your health?

[Dr.Jacoby]

My take away from this episode- that was a Dawn Of The Dead homage with the machete-in-the-head zombie at the canned goods place, am I right? That and the Morgan map made me feel all warm and fuzzy

Edited April 2, 2015 by Dr.Jacoby

[lulee]

What the heck kind of cliffhanger was that? Rick shoots a douche just a Morgan arrives? That is what the show leaves you with to build anticipation over the summer. Lame...just lame...

What kind of cliffhanger? I believe it's called a not-intended-to-be-a-cliffhanger season finale. It's similar to the finale of season 2 where they fled the farm and the prison was shown in the distance (it did have a mini-cliffhanger, with the shadowy figure saving Andrea.)

 

Only season 4 had a real cliffhanger finale with most of the cast in imminent danger.

 

And with the ratings the show gets and season 6 not premiering until late October, the network and showmakers probably aren't super worried about generating summer buzz. .

Edited April 2, 2015 by lulee

[Samx]

What kind of cliffhanger? I believe it's called a not-intended-to-be-a-cliffhanger season finale. It's similar to the finale of season 2 where they fled the farm and the prison was shown in the distance (it did have a mini-cliffhanger, with the shadowy figure saving Andrea.)

 

I think the "cliffhanger" was supposed to be that annoying feeling you got when Morgan FINALLY reunites with Rick but at the worst possible moment and now you have to spend all summer thinking about how much ~conflict~ there's going to be between the two. Personally, I felt like everything was somewhat "wrapped" up. The Wolves are not nearly as compelling as the Termites, so I'm not terribly concerned about whatever fresh hell they're going to bring. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by Samx

[AngelaHunter]

Aaron would say Eeuuuw! Second-hand smoke! Don't get that nasty smell on my Eddie Bauer barn coat! Yuk! Don't you know that smoking is going to ruin your health?

 

You know how when you're infatuated with someone everything they do is fascinating, charming and delightful? I think Aaron may have  a little crush on Daryl. I'm still sure he picked out Daryl's new clothes and dressed up him as his own fantasy - stylish rough trade.')

[kj4ever]

You know how when you're infatuated with someone everything they do is fascinating, charming and delightful? I think Aaron may have  a little crush on Daryl. I'm still sure he picked out Daryl's new clothes and dressed up him as his own fantasy - stylish rough trade.')

Holy crap Daryl had new pants.  I think he has worn the same pants since season one!

[Bad Example]

You know how when you're infatuated with someone everything they do is fascinating, charming and delightful? I think Aaron may have  a little crush on Daryl. I'm still sure he picked out Daryl's new clothes and dressed up him as his own fantasy - stylish rough trade.')

 

I feel kind of guilty for liking this.  :-D

[LadyArcadia]

First time on this board...

 

Hubby and I agree ghoulina! We believe Glenn was bit. Didn't he say to Nicholas-"I'm gonna die because of you!" or did we hear that wrong?

 

He said, "Noah died because of you!"

 

I have to admit I'm a bit surprised there's even doubt as to whom Rick killed. I thought it was pretty obvious he turned and killed Pete on Deanna's command.

[Samx]

I have to admit I'm a bit surprised there's even doubt as to whom Rick killed. I thought it was pretty obvious he turned and killed Pete on Deanna's command.

 

And in case anyone still has doubts, the official AMC trivia/story sync for this episode confirms that Pete is the one Rick killed. Hopefully someone "killed" Reg before he turned and hopefully that person was Deanna.

[NoWillToResist]

Au contraire, construction foreman Abraham is going to be all over that job.

 

Well, there's a difference between gathering sheets of metal to be used vs. having the architectural know-how to re-assemble it in a useful fashion, IMO. Maybe Jessie should be on the committee...she likes building metal shit. Owl...wall...what's the difference? ;)

 

You never know, though.

Abraham might pull off some outrageously silly shit.

Like, I dunno... putting braces on the INSIDE of the walls, maybe...?

 

Clearly they didn't want to put braces on the inside since it would allow people to shimmy up and leave. :D

 

I wonder if dear dumbass will question Glenn and Nicholas upon their return to ASZ...no one let them out the gate, so how are they on the outside of their impenetrable walls? ;)

[pasdetrois]

Why did Maggie look so disheveled in this episode? She looked like she was wearing a bad wig (her own hair is thin and fine and shiny) and she had on drab bulky clothing. Very different appearance from the last time we saw her.

[mandolin]

Why did Maggie look so disheveled in this episode? She looked like she was wearing a bad wig (her own hair is thin and fine and shiny) and she had on drab bulky clothing. Very different appearance from the last time we saw her.

.

I have wondered if the actress is pregnant, but that'd probably be all over the media if so. It's like the character can't decide on a "look."

[Nashville]

Well, there's a difference between gathering sheets of metal to be used vs. having the architectural know-how to re-assemble it in a useful fashion, IMO. Maybe Jessie should be on the committee...she likes building metal shit. Owl...wall...what's the difference? ;)

 

 

Clearly they didn't want to put braces on the inside since it would allow people to shimmy up and leave. :D

 

Stray thought here.

We've already commented on the strangeness of the Wall's configuration (braces outside, sheer inside), and the improbability of Reg and a handful of early arrivees constructing the Wall around the entire ASZ compound.

What's the possibility the military brought them here internment - not protection - and the whole "Reg built it" bit is a simple cover story?

I wonder if dear dumbass will question Glenn and Nicholas upon their return to ASZ...no one let them out the gate, so how are they on the outside of their impenetrable walls? ;)

Oh, that's easy. They walked out through the gate FPP left open. :D

[NoWillToResist]

One thing I forgot to mention...when Gabriel approached the gate and said he wanted to go for a walk, is there any particular reason (other than dumbassery/contrivance) why the pretty dumbass gatekeeper didn't ask Gabriel why he couldn't just, you know, walk around the neighbourhood? ASZ still has the outdoors and fresh air - not like they're locked indoors - so why did he have to leave the gated area to walk around and think?

 

Stray thought here.

We've already commented on the strangeness of the Wall's configuration (braces outside, sheer inside), and the improbability of Reg and a handful of early arrivees constructing the Wall around the entire ASZ compound.

What's the possibility the military brought them here internment - not protection - and the whole "Reg built it" bit is a simple cover story?

 

Ha! That would be great, but a child was able to scale the wall from the inside, so it's not really great at keeping people in, either. :)

[kikismom]

I think the "cliffhanger" was supposed to be that annoying feeling you got when Morgan FINALLY reunites with Rick but at the worst possible moment and now you have to spend all summer thinking about how much ~conflict~ there's going to be between the two. Personally, I felt like everything was somewhat "wrapped" up. The Wolves are not nearly as compelling as the Termites, so I'm not terribly concerned about whatever fresh hell they're going to bring. 

But how great would it be if Morgan had said wait a minute...Jake? Jake, is that you? and the Woov said Hawkins?!

BTW

I think it would be fabulous if James Remar from Jericho

played Negan.

 

Hopefully someone "killed" Reg before he turned and hopefully that person was Deanna.

Awww.. am I the only one hoping that in the confusion and the appearance of the Tweesome Threesome, everybody forgot and Reg does turn and all hell breaks out?