S03.E16: The Offer

[kismet]

Oliver in this just breaks my heart... The way he closes his eyessss dammit:

 

  

 

ETA this isn't synced properly, but you get the gist

I loved his side mouth shift like he was grinding his teeth or biting his tongue. It was a relatively new nuance for SA. His facial expressions are just such as asset to his character. And we got to see such an array of them this episode, it was great. Plus he actually smiled more than once this episode.

[CabotCove]

How is she leading Oliver on?

 

Being flirty? the way I perceived it, she was acting more than just being friendly. 

 

And she said that she and Ray were a "something," as in dating and not defined. So how exactly has Ray been wronged in this scenario?

 

Fair enough if is not that serious, I just hope that Ray knows that too. In any case, this show treats romantic rivals terribly, when it comes to Olicity. 

[Starfish35]

Ha I'm glad other people have mentioned the deepening voice, because I was wondering if I was imagining things. :)

[slayer2]

Ha I'm glad other people have mentioned the deepening voice, because I was wondering if I was imagining things. :)

I heard it too and was wondering.

[catrox14]

I have to say. I was kind of bothered by Felicity telling Oliver that she's happier when he is in her life.  Okay before you get out ALL the pitchforks...hear me out.  I love Felicity. I ship Olicity, but it rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Oliver is acknowledging her relationship with Ray, which I thought was pretty healthy for Oliver anyway. Felicity tells Oliver that them not being together was his choice.  Fair enough. She's right. The camera did focus on her touching him, just like it did when he would touch her arms and shoulders etc. So I thought it was intended for me, a viewer, to think it's Felicity being 'flirty' especially with the 'most handsome demon' and the "I am happier with you in my life" comment.  I felt like since she wasn't saying she's breaking off with Ray that it was a little bit cruel to Oliver. Because it felt now like she was dangling maybes.

 

It's not that big of a deal, but it did kind of bug me.

Edited March 20, 2015 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

She isn't dangling maybes. She's straight-up telling him that he's the only reason they aren't together. 

[Actionmage]

I watched it earlier today (Thursday) due to Empire-fever, but, everyone here was gushing  on the new episode, so I watched.

 

I'm not back the way most folks seem to be, but I watched the full episode, so I guess that's good?

 

I totally perked up at the Dr. Sun Yat Sen Gardens making a return to the Arrowverse as the botanical garden Akio and Ollie go to hoping to find Maseo and Tatsu! If you don't live nearby, it's worth the trip to Vancouver to see it. I took a picture of DH in the pavilion Ollie and Akio stop in front of briefly. /tourist gush

 

Laurel was bearable and Nyssa as potential mentor is intriguing.

Roy/Thea was nice. I've enjoyed them together, no matter the relationship, so I hope this is good for both.

I love Barrowman, but Malcolm has got to go! To quote Buffy's Dawn, "Get out, get out, get out!"

I know it was due to More Important Stuff, but I would have enjoyed Dig and Felicity talking about Oliver and his options.

Quentin, as others have stated, you were correct in grieving and being angry how you need. Still? Felicity doesn't call just to yak about the weather. You probably should take her calls. Be angry as you wanna be, but she usually is trying to give you a heads up about something.

 

The Olicity was strong in this one, yes.

I like that both Ray and Oliver value Felicity's mind. I think Oliver just marvels at how amazing she is, where Ray treats her like someone to compete with, brainpower-wise. The 'you can't have done X; I tried for X days' felt like that.  I feel that Ray thinks that's part of why he has feels for Felicity- the whole packageness of her.

 

Is Ra's gone? Are we done with him now? No? poop.

How can Oliver not see that the "prophecy"/ "vision" of Ra's is the laid-out plan of how he is going to try to ruin your current life?  Did Ra's read TV Tropes before speaking to Oliver?  Oliver has no trust in the folks around him when things are rough. I do get that is part of what Oliver is re-learning, but this has happened in the last two seasons. Things get rough, Ollie doubts everyone and himself and The Mission, finds some reason (or the old one) to continue and finishes out the season. I would love to trust these writers, but right now I don't.

 

If next week is Dig, Lyla and the Squad, though? Like The Governator, I'll be bahck!

[statsgirl]

I get the feeling that reading TV Tropes and gossip mags is part of villain training on this show.

 

MG confirmed on tumblr that the woman Assassin is Taliban. I wonder what that means.

 

Fair enough if is not that serious, I just hope that Ray knows that too. In any case, this show treats romantic rivals terribly, when it comes to Olicity. 

It's rebound for Ray too though.  A month ago he was doing all the vigilante stuff for Anna; three months ago he thought she'd be the last woman he'd ever kiss.  (He's kind of stupid that way.)  There's no way he could have got over Anna and fallen in a real way for Felicity in that time.

 

With the "there's no way you could have got that because I've been working for three weeks on it" exchange, it feels like for Ray, his "something" with Felicity is a way of waking up to seeing the world again and realizing he's not dead too,  rather than a True Love thing.

[catrox14]

She isn't dangling maybes. She's straight-up telling him that he's the only reason they aren't together. 

 

That's why I said it was kind of like that. But not exactly. To me telling him she is happier with her in his life, is keeping him in her life in a more personal way than just as a member of TA. It felt, I dunno, a little bit like having her cake and wanting to eat too?  She gets to go back to being how she was with Oliver more or less because he's listening to her again and is open to that again but she has Ray for the boyfriend experience. I don't know quite how to articulate it.  Anyway, not like I think Felicity is a bad person for saying what she said, just saying, why it bugged me.  MMV as always

[BkWurm1]

All of your comments have convinced me to watch this episode when I get some free time, but they need to have Felicity break up with Ray.  Like, now.  I don't wish to see Felicity flirt with Oliver if she is still in a "relationship" with Ray (well, I mean I do, but I don't want Felicity to look bad).  They are pulling the same shit over on The Flash, and it's really bugging me there.  I mean, here I'm a lot less bugged because I don't like Ray and I live for Oliver/Felicity and OG Team Arrow scenes.  But please, showrunners, end Raylicity quickly so Felicity doesn't start to look bad from emotionally or physically cheating on Ray with Oliver.

 

I'm still wondering if the only reason they are being their true selves around each other again is because Felicity is now in a relationship with Ray.  Like since she was off the table, then Oliver let himself accept her friendship again when all season he'd been rejecting every aspect of their relationship (with a couple episodic exceptions).  Felicity was upfront about being with Ray and she didn't ignore his call so I'm trying to weigh that openness about having something with Ray with her reactions with Oliver.  Would it feel like flirting if they hadn't been so previously strained or would it just be seen as friendship stuff?  At least on Felicity's part.  On Oliver's part, well, he smiled twice, that's way more intimate than any kind of overt flirting for him.

 

They were doing the heart eyes but again, was it flirting or just a pure joy in reconnecting in a way that had been taken off the table for months and months.  I too was over in the Flash forums and part of the discussion of Iris and Barry crossing lines while in relationships and I see the parallels but also at the same time it feels so different.  Wishful thinking?  I don't hate Ray as a character so it's not that I'm fine with him being mistreated but Iris on Flash has been dating Eddie for a year and moved in with the guy a few months ago. Felicity has maybe been an item with Ray for three weeks?  Maybe that level of commitment (or lack of commitment) is the key to why I can't condemn Oliver or Felicity for the flirty-flirt of happiness and joy. 

Thank everything holy for that episode. I thought Arrow and I were done. *sniff* I'm not sure if it helped that I didn't watch any previews, stayed out of most of the spoilers and didn't read any interviews. I had low expectations for this one, but it was up there with the Flarrow crossover as one of my favorites. 

 

The Olicity was WAY above my expectations. I don't understand why I had to struggle through most of the season to get to this, but I can't complain. I'm too schmoopy about Arrow today!

Well, I was spoiled up to my gills and I had the same reaction to this episode as you.  I went into it with such dread and ended it with an abundance of love and joy for all creatures great and small. 

[BkWurm1]

MG confirmed on tumblr that the woman Assassin is Taliban. I wonder what that means.

 

Who is Taliban? 

[catrox14]

Oh lord. Do they really have a character named Taliban?? Seriously.  I mean I'm sure it's a lovely name, but come on! The implications!

[apinknightmare]

I haven't seen anything like that on his Tumblr.

[wonderwall]

I haven't seen anything like that on his Tumblr.

Check out twitter :)

[dtissagirl]

Did Ra's read TV Tropes before speaking to Oliver? 

HAHAHA, yeah, he totally did.

But only Oliver would think it was a prediction of his future instead of a retaliation action plan. Oh, Oliver. You're such a simpleton sometimes. *pets*

[apinknightmare]

He responded that she was Talibah, not Taliban.

 

http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Mesi_Natifah

Edited March 20, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

Whew. Well that's a relief

[Carrie Ann]

So is that the character from the 2.5 comics? I totally forgot about her.

[statsgirl]

Who is Talibah?

 

There are some fierce female fighters in Afghanistan.

 

 

 To me telling him she is happier with her in his life, is keeping him in her life in a more personal way than just as a member of TA. It felt, I dunno, a little bit like having her cake and wanting to eat too? 

Having her cake and eating it too would be to be in a relationship with Oliver.  This is as close as she can get, a boyfriend in Ray and back to the friendly relationship with Oliver that he shut down when he wanted her to know he couldn't be with her.

 

Oliver is still calling the shots in terms of their relationship, as Felicity told him, but now she's doing what she needs to to deal with it.  As BkWurm1 said, now that she's in a relationship with Ray, Oliver doesn't have to cut himself off from her any more in case she gets ideas.

[apinknightmare]

So is that the character from the 2.5 comics? I totally forgot about her.

 

Me too. 

[catrox14]

 

Having her cake and eating it too would be to be in a relationship with Oliver.  This is as close as she can get, a boyfriend in Ray and back to the friendly relationship with Oliver that he shut down when he wanted her to know he couldn't be with her.

 

What I mean by having her cake and eating it too, is that she will get the emotional relationship with Oliver again which IMO is more meaningful to her and probably to Oliver than  a sexual relationship, and with Ray she has a boyfriend, a date to things, sexy times but IMO not real meaningful emotional relationship.  Anyway, just my view. 

[Carrie Ann]

Who is Talibah?

 

Here's the story on Talibah. I forgot that Sara and Nyssa saved her. Have to believe she'd be pretty loyal to Nyssa if it came down to it. (But also, I could imagine her having no real role on the show; just being an Easter Egg for people who read the 2.5 comics.)

Edited March 20, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[apinknightmare]

What I mean by having her cake and eating it too, is that she will get the emotional relationship with Oliver again which IMO is more meaningful to her and probably to Oliver than  a sexual relationship, and with Ray she has a boyfriend, a date to things, sexy times but IMO not real meaningful emotional relationship.  Anyway, just my view. 

 

I think Ray's a distraction for her the way the she is for him. So I think it all is very superficial, especially if it turns out that he never did tell her that his suit works. 

[kismet]

So I think I figured out why they had Oliver & Ray meet again in the office. TBH, I don't think it was overtly being angsty or tropy. I think it was to reestablish in Ray's mind that Felicity & Oliver are friends. It is well within reason that he had no idea that they were friends. Initially when he met them, she was his EA & helped OQ try to get back his company. But I wonder, if they have even talked about their life outside of the suit building? Does he even know they were ever friends & not just colleagues? This meeting I believe was an intentional seed planted by the writers to set-up the Atom v. Arrow clash

they promoted for 17. OQ has finally been reintroduced to Ray. So now when he finds out what he finds out in 17 it'll have more context, esp with his relationship w/ Felicity.

[paigow]

He responded that she was Talibah, not Taliban.

 

http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Mesi_Natifah

This is like a GEICO commercial... "Did you know that uncorrected typos can get you questioned by Homeland Security?"

[statsgirl]

Apparently editing wikipedia pages can get you followed by the NSA too.

 

Thanks for the information on Talibah. i wonder if she will play into the story for the rest of the season.

 

Was there something to suggest that Ray didn't tell her yet that his suit works?  If they're real partners, he should have told her.

 

I loved what SA did acting-wise when meeting Ray at the office.  Marking his territory as an alpha male even though Ray wasn't. And later when Felicity was looking up Murmur on the computer, he looked around, checking out the changes from when it was his office.

 

I thought it was very adult and non-manipulative of Felicity to wait until Oliver told her that he was staying in Starling City before she told him that all she wanted from him was to have him in her life.

[Ang]

So I think I figured out why they had Oliver & Ray meet again in the office. TBH, I don't think it was overtly being angsty or tropy. I think it was to reestablish in Ray's mind that Felicity & Oliver are friends. It is well within reason that he had no idea that they were friends. Initially when he met them, she was his EA & helped OQ try to get back his company. But I wonder, if they have even talked about their life outside of the suit building? Does he even know they were ever friends & not just colleagues? This meeting I believe was an intentional seed planted by the writers to set-up the Atom v. Arrow clash

they promoted for 17. OQ has finally been reintroduced to Ray. So now when he finds out what he finds out in 17 it'll have more context, esp with his relationship w/ Felicity.

In 3x01 Felicity did refer to Ray stealing "[her] friend's" company, so the idea of F and O being friends was at least introduced to Ray. Whether he's ever speculated that OQ is her "more than friend" is another question.

You're totally right about the set-up. I'm actually kind of excited to see where that goes now and how personal it gets.

[SmallScreenDiva]

So I was finally able to watch the ep tonight and, like many here, was happily surprised by the Oliver/Felicity scenes. I really didn't think we'd get this until maybe Episode 20. I appreciate that the return to their old dynamic wasn't abrupt. That the thawing was gradual throughout the episode. I was smiling along with them by the end. I love how Diggle apparently told Felicity EVERYTHING Oliver told him, including Oliver's thoughts about Felicity being with Ray. I would have liked to have heard that conversation, just because I want to see Diggle and Felicity talking. But I understand why it wasn't shown. It would have been repetitive. It already kinda was when Felicity told Oliver what Dig told her.

 

I'm still having problems with the reasons being provided for why people do things on this show. Why does Ra's want Oliver as his heir? Because of a lousy prophecy? Is that a one-time deal, or are all Ra's al Ghuls picked that way? Because reasons = because comics. I think that's one of the many problems of the storytelling this season. The reasons are just too stupid most of the time. (Like letting a vigilante wanna-be tag along when she's more of a liability than help in the field. Just stick with the fully trained former Special Ops guy and the kid who can at least confuse the bad guys with his flips and parkour).

[dtissagirl]

I'm still having problems with the reasons being provided for why people do things on this show. Why does Ra's want Oliver as his heir? Because of a lousy prophecy? Is that a one-time deal, or are all Ra's al Ghuls picked that way? Because reasons = because comics. I think that's one of the many problems of the storytelling this season. The reasons are just too stupid most of the time. (Like letting a vigilante wanna-be tag along when she's more of a liability than help in the field. Just stick with the fully trained former Special Ops guy and the kid who can at least confuse the bad guys with his flips and parkour).

This episode was the best possible example that yup, several characters' motivations are still wonky, and not at all, you know, LOGIC, but that I'm perfectly willing to handwave all of the times I go bzuhhhh?! while watching Arrow if they give me good character interaction, of the sort that doesn't make me want to poke my eyes out with all the emo.

There was warmth and hope in the tone of this episode, and really, that's pretty much all I need to happily watch this show.

[doesntworkonwood]

Just to add this here, I'm a bit miffed that Nyssa was tranqed. I feel that tranqing is kind of her thing, and I don't like it being used against her, especially when it's a hell of a lot funnier when she's doing it. 

[apinknightmare]

I love it when anyone on this show is tranqued - it's one of my favorite things. And look at it this way - it's a testament to her badassery that she had to be chemically subdued in order for someone to get a handle on her!

[statsgirl]

This episode was the best possible example that yup, several characters' motivations are still wonky, and not at all, you know, LOGIC, but that I'm perfectly willing to handwave all of the times I go bzuhhhh?! while watching Arrow if they give me good character interaction, of the sort that doesn't make me want to poke my eyes out with all the emo.

There was warmth and hope in the tone of this episode, and really, that's pretty much all I need to happily watch this show.

I agree with all this.

 

This is the first time that I've felt that Ra's could actually be scary and wasn't just a Disney cartoon villain. Granted, it was at the end of the episode when he killed all those guys (loved how it was set up with Lance telling the Arrow he's just a bad guy himself) and I cringed all the way through that Nanda Parbat scenes, but it was still an improvement.

 

This is also the first time I've liked Raylicity.  One of the things I've been needing is to have Felicity talk to Oliver and Diggle because as long as she was isolated from them, she was forced to go to the only person who would talk to her.  (All those scenes with Laurel pfft! they've been for Laurel's sake, not Felicity's.)

 

With Felicity finally on good terms again with her friends, Ray becomes an option, not a forced place because she has no one else.  It may have helped that the Ray/Felicity scene was so short, and most of her scenes were with Oliver.  But even in that scene, it felt like this is a rebound, not-significant thing for both of them rather than a great romance.

 

The whole motivation behind the Malcolm Merlyn and Ra's al Ghul plots is still ridiculous, but at least I'm feeling better about the show as a whole.

[KirkB]

This episode certainly had it's faults, but I absolutely agree the best part of it was the fact our characters are actually talking to one another. Oliver told Diggle and Felicity fairly quickly about Ra's offer and they gave their opinions. There was no hiding information or arguing and stomping off. Oliver actually got, what, a second scene with Ray to remind us they are, in fact, on the same show. Even Thea and Malcolm got another creepy father/daughter bonding moment, or at least what passes for one in the Merlyn household. The person I felt for most though is Nyssa. She may be a killer but she has apparently lost the love of her life, may never have had her father's love at all, and now has been stripped of her birthright. 

[KenyaJ]

I'm still wondering if the only reason they are being their true selves around each other again is because Felicity is now in a relationship with Ray.  Like since she was off the table, then Oliver let himself accept her friendship again when all season he'd been rejecting every aspect of their relationship (with a couple episodic exceptions).  Felicity was upfront about being with Ray and she didn't ignore his call so I'm trying to weigh that openness about having something with Ray with her reactions with Oliver.  Would it feel like flirting if they hadn't been so previously strained or would it just be seen as friendship stuff?

 

It felt just like their Season 2 interaction to me. The only difference is that their implicit feelings for each other are now explicit. 

[CabotCove]

There's no way he could have got over Anna and fallen in a real way for Felicity in that time.

 

Anna who? we don't even know who that is, never met her. They have been spending a whole season building Ray/Felicity ONscreen , all for what so, that in the end they can just dismiss it as a rebound relationship?. Not to mention,  they have done this on a shorter term with Barry/Felicity "we are perfect together but we are in love with other people" thing, just seems lazy to do it again and a waste of time. Ray/Anna and Oliver/Felicity can still be treated as important relationships for either character without diminishing the one that  Ray/Felicity have been building.

 

I'm still wondering if the only reason they are being their true selves around each other again is because Felicity is now in a relationship with Ray.

 

Or maybe Oliver is starting to feel more like himself, he seems more open, calm and willing to listen in this episode imo. My guess is he really believed the war was over with Ra. 

 

Would it feel like flirting if they hadn't been so previously strained or would it just be seen as friendship stuff?

 

It still would for me, because she is dating someone else. It just doesn't seem like "normal" behavior calling another guy a "handsome demon" , "Im are happy when you are in my life" when you don't even say anything close to that to the man you have started dating. Also adding on her body language. Yes they (O/F) are friends and have known each other for longer, but you got to start putting some boundaries when you start dating someone else. Its not even like Oliver/Felicity are like Iris/Barry who have a somewhat familial relationship so it can be taken as platonic, and still those two in the Flash are having boundary problems lately when dating other people.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Conell

[apinknightmare]

Anna who? we don't even know who that is, never met her. 

 

Anna was Ray's fiancee, the one he felt guilt-ridden over kissing Felicity since he thought she was the last one he'd ever kiss. And we can't meet her. She's dead.

 

The reason this seems like an inconsequential relationship is because it is. His sole purpose on this show was to be spun off into another one with the added bonus of acting as a ship stall. They couldn't be bothered investing any time in it because it was never going to be a thing anyway - it was always intended to be a "rebound" of sorts. Ray was never going to get a legit romance on another show when they wanted to give him a show of his own.

Edited March 20, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

I agree with KenyaJ. The dialogue seemed extremely season 2, the only difference is the undercurrent of romantic feelings and whatnot being more explicit. 

 

Also, the saunter makes it all the more flirty. I love that saunter, lmao

 

[apinknightmare]

I don't know that it was what she said to him so much as how she said it. Her voice was very soft, and there was an emotional undercurrent there that wouldn't have been back in season two. 

[BkWurm1]

Not to mention,  they have done this on a shorter term with Barry/Felicity "we are perfect together but we are in love with other people" thing, just seems lazy to do it again and a waste of time

 

So it's par for the course this season since we've pretty much had every beat from the 2nd half of season two repeated. 

 

Even the just when I'm about to give up on this damn grim show they step in and make me care again thing happened.  This I guess unconscious repetition on the part of our show runners makes me wonder if we should be able to predict exactly how the season will end. 

Edited March 20, 2015 by BkWurm1

[wonderwall]

I don't know that it was what she said to him so much as how she said it. Her voice was very soft, and there was an emotional undercurrent there that wouldn't have been back in season two. 

 

And the sexy saunter. Don't forget. Never forget the sexy saunter lmao

[Chaser]

And the sexy saunter. Don't forget. Never forget the sexy saunter lmao

It reminded me of the Fern Saunter

[CabotCove]

Anna was Ray's fiancee, the one he felt guilt-ridden over kissing Felicity since he thought she was the last one he'd ever kiss. And we can't meet her. She's dead.

 

Thanks but I know that,  I am just saying I don't get why Im expected to be invested in a character and a relationship that has never been onscreen. Why should it be more meaningful in a viewers' eyes than a relationship (R/F) that has actually been shown developing on screen.

 

The reason this seems like an inconsequential relationship is because it is. His sole purpose on this show was to be spun off into another one with the added bonus of acting as a ship stall.

 

Yeah,  and they are not the first show to do that but at least do it in a smart way that doesn't tarnish the intergrity of the characters in it and the relationship. And they did spend quite a bit of time of the season on the Ray/Felicity relationship for a relationship that is supposed so "inconsequential". 2 -3 episodes on the couple could have been sufficient for that.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Conell

[apinknightmare]

Thanks but I know that,  I am just saying don't get why Im expected to be invested in a character and a relationship that has never been onscreen. 

 

 

You're not...that was my point (and it did seem like you might've been confused about who she was, so sorry about that). 

 

 

Yeah,  and they are not the first show to do that but at least do it in a smart way that doesn't tarnish the intergrity of the characters in it and the relationship. And did spend quite a bit of time of the season on the Ray/Felicity relationship for a relationship that is supposed so "inconsequential". 2 -3 episodes on the couple could have been sufficient for that.

 

Personally I don't think they spent much time at all on the romantic aspect of Ray and Felicity at all. Most of it was professional/work-related apart from one kiss and the one scene where he told her he cared about her to the point of changing his mission from being about Anna to being about her. Then they had sex in 3x15 - nothing built up to that because I think it's supposed to be a rebound thing/distraction for both of them. They themselves haven't even defined it.

[Guest]

I forgot to say how much I loved Diggle/Oliver in this episode. I'm so glad Oliver is talking to the people whose opinions matter most to him. FINALLY. As usual, Diggle wins everything. NEVER LEAVE ME.

 

 

Personally I don't think they spent much time at all on the romantic aspect of Ray and Felicity at all. Most of it was professional/work-related apart from one kiss and the one scene where he told her he cared about her to the point of changing his mission from being about Anna to being about her. Then they had sex in 3x15 - nothing built up to that because I think it's supposed to be a rebound thing/distraction for both of them. They themselves haven't even defined it.

 

THIS. Having Ray constantly walk into Felicity's office to bug her about something just as she's always crying and then one kiss and a sex scene does not equal building a relationship. I had thought they'd try to make it more meaningful than it was but even them sleeping together was Felicity reacting to Oliver's behavior in 315. It has rebound written all over it. And Felicity practically leaping away from Ray when Oliver walked into the room felt like a distraction from what's really going on with Oliver. She seemed so uncomfortable that her worlds were colliding finally. Plus Ray couldn't have looked less disinterested if he tried. 

Edited March 20, 2015 by Guest

[strikera0]

MG confirmed on tumblr that the woman Assassin is Taliban. I wonder what that means.

 

Oh, I don't read the Arrow comics and had no idea about the existence of this character. That's good to know. 

[statsgirl]

Or maybe Oliver is starting to feel more like himself, he seems more open, calm and willing to listen in this episode imo. My guess is he really believed the war was over with Ra. 

 

Maybe. It kind of feels like in 1x22 when he slept with Laurel because he thought they've defeated the Undertaking.  But Ra's was only the opposition since ep 3x04, and he's been this way all season since the restaurant was bombed.

 

I think a lot of it though was because Felicity is seeing Ray, strange as that may sound.  When he knew that Felicity wanted a relationship and he thought he couldn't have one with her, Oliver deliberately pushed her away, stopping the little touches and not letting her into Team Arrow planning.  Now that she's off the table, he feels free again to open up to her as a friend, to ask her advice and listen to her counsel.  I suspect he'll find out that he resents it when Ray takes up her time, as he did here when Ray phoned, but that's something Oliver is going to have to deal with, and decide what he really wants.

 

 I am just saying I don't get why Im expected to be invested in a character and a relationship that has never been onscreen. Why should it be more meaningful in a viewers' eyes than a relationship (R/F) that has actually been shown developing on screen.

I don't think they developed Ray/Felicity at all as a relationship other than the obvious beats to show that it's not serious:

• he stalks her but only because he wants her tech expertise then notices she's attractive
• Felicity takes the job because Oliver is pushing her away
• Ray wants to build the suit to honour Anna, his dead fiance
• Ray regrets kissing Felicity because he thought Anna was the last woman he'd kiss; Felicity is confused why all the men in her life walk away after kissing her
• Ray decides he needs to protect Felicity
• Felicity sleeps with Ray after Oliver pushes her away again because Ray listens to her

 

It's all been in relationship to Ray's feelings for Anna, and Felicity's for Oliver.  I think that's what really worked in this episode because I got the impression that it was something pleasant for both Ray and Felicity but nothing deep.  Ray is rebounding too, and I like that because it makes it more equal, unlike how angry I get at what Barry and Iris are doing to Eddie and Linda, who both think it could be real.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I actually enjoyed Ray and Felicity's flirty moment. They were behaving just as I expected them, with Ray slightly distracted but sweet to the new girlfriend, Felicity flirty and affectionate to the new boyfriend. I love that Felicity is so much smarter than Ray and unapologetic about it. I actually would have liked a little bit more PDA, to be honest. Just because they're still supposed to be in the rosy honeymoon stage of their relationship. But I guess Oliver walking in on them kissing again would have driven him straight to Ra's :P (As long as he couldn't actually see, he could pretend Felicity and Ray spend their evenings sitting on her couch, holding hands.) I never expected anything from this relationship other than it being a ship stall. Didn't really take to heart the EPs' declarations that Ray is a legitimate choice. Or that this is going to be a committed relationship. It's a "something," nothing more. And I can enjoy that. Did I want more for Felicity. God, yes. But "Arrow" was never going to be able to deliver and I made my peace with that a long time ago.

 

(Off a different tangent: This is one reason I do NOT want Nyssa to be a regular character on "Arrow." Either they will ruin her, or Diggle's and Felicity's stories/arcs will be set aside again for the EPs' shiny new toy because they can't possibly handle juggling multiple storylines.)

 

Back to Ray and Felicity (never calling them Raylicity), even though it was painful for Oliver in the end when his moment with Felicity was interrupted by Ray's phone call, I did like that Felicity smiled when she saw who was calling. I'm like Oliver, I want her to be happy. But unlike Oliver, if Ray makes her happy FOR NOW, I'm all for it. She has her Oliver, one of her "closest friends" back in her life, asking her opinion, valuing advice and maybe that's good enough for now. Baby steps.

[catrox14]

It reminded me of the Fern Saunter

If someone in fandom doesn't photoshop a nameplate for Fern's desk that reads Fern Saunter, I will be sorely disappointed.

[lemotomato]

It still would for me, because she is dating someone else. It just doesn't seem like "normal" behavior calling another guy a "handsome demon" , "Im are happy when you are in my life" when you don't even say anything close to that to the man you have started dating. Also adding on her body language. Yes they (O/F) are friends and have known each other for longer, but you got to start putting some boundaries when you start dating someone else. Its not even like Oliver/Felicity are like Iris/Barry who have a somewhat familial relationship so it can be taken as platonic, and still those two in the Flash are having boundary problems lately when dating other people.

Are Felicity and Ray dating or in a committed relationship? We don't know that yet. Felicity refers to them as "a thing" and jumps away from Ray when she sees Oliver. Doesn't sound like something serious to me. All we know is that they're friends and they've slept together. And I don't think it diminishes Felicity's character at all if she's touchy-feely/affectionate with Oliver, when a) she's been shown to be tactile with all of her good friends, and b) she considers Oliver one of her dearest friends and her intention was to comfort him, not to flirt.

Edited March 20, 2015 by lemotomato

[KirkB]

(Off a different tangent: This is one reason I do NOT want Nyssa to be a regular character on "Arrow." Either they will ruin her, or Diggle's and Felicity's stories/arcs will be set aside again for the EPs' shiny new toy because they can't possibly handle juggling multiple storylines.)

 

 

See, that's the same thing that keeps me from saying I want Nyssa on the show full time. The character, showing up once and a while, is interesting enough she can even make Laurel at least tolerable for some people. If she becomes a regular I can pretty much guarantee you it's going to come at the expense of someone else and they would pretty quickly run the character into the ground anyway.