S04.E15: Enter The Dragon

[KingOfHearts]

I'm surprised they revealed Rumple to Regina so quickly. I find it hard to believe that Team Villain would trust Regina at this point. Is she trapped with them now like a hostage?

 

I think that whole "we're starting a war" is probably a load of crap, like all that "it's going to get a bit chilly around here" in 4A.

Edited March 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Blue turned August into a child to save his life. He was given no choice about being turned back into an adult and it's a Sophie's choice to decide whether to turn him back or not (lose August or lose Pinocchoi). Blech. Blech. Blech.

 

So Rumple could have turned him back into August just like that?  That completely undermines whatever limited powers they've allowed Blue to have.  Can Rumple just do anything?

[kili]

I'm surprised they revealed Rumple to Regina so quickly. I find it hard to believe that Team Villain would trust Regina at this point. Is she trapped with them now like a hostage?

 

She assulated a respected member of the community, kidnapped a young child and was completely unable to protect him from being tortured. I'm sure those little factoids might possilby make the heros question which side she is actually on. Team QoD may not know that Emma is complicit in the kidnapping and can at least vouch for Regina to some extent, but even she may be wondering after Regina clearly ditched her and did absolutely nothing to protect Pinocchio.

 

The kidnapping was kind of like those hazing rituals gangs are rumoured to make new members do. The act puts you on the wrong side of the law, so you end up not having much of a choice about being in the gang. It's kind of like how Cora framed Regina for murder to get the entire town against her.

 

Regina and Emma had a death grip on the Idiot Ball this episode (I don't actually blame Belle too much for getting tricked by Rumple - he played a pretty good game. That use-the-dagger-to-summon-him was a masterstroke of manipulation).

[Camera One]

She assulated a respected member of the community, kidnapped a young child and was completely unable to protect him from being tortured. I'm sure those little factoids might possilby make the heros question which side she is actually on.

 

I think this questioning might have occurred if Emma had not been involved in this episode at all.  But as it is, Emma will also blame herself and basically, they will all be more worried for Regina than for Pinocchio.  And since now the writers don't have to deal with the icky situation of a child being tortured, but a fully grown man that has been very very bad, whatever happens to him will be swept under the rug.  As someone else said, this would have been an awesome dilemma for Gepetto in terms of how he would feel about the adult version being back, but I can see him being asleep until the inevitable reunion at the end.  And extremely convenient since Pinocchio won't remember anything and won't say what he told the Queens of Darkness and Rumple.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Camera One

[worryfaraway]

Boring episode. They don't trust Regina much but tell her that they're searching for the author? Cruella and Ursula were fun last two weeks and do nothing this ep. Emma really wants to be Regina's bff? And once again, Will does nothing but send Belle Gaston??

And wasn't there a spinning wheel at the end of Aurora's bed back then???

[KAOS Agent]

 

So Rumple could have turned him back into August just like that?  That completely undermines whatever limited powers they've allowed Blue to have.  Can Rumple just do anything?

 

It also brings into question why the hell he couldn't be bothered when Tamara was running around all evil and Pinocchio knew who was the murderer. That Rumpel couldn't be bothered to come and change him into August to get the info directly resulted in Neal "dying" and Henry being kidnapped which then of course resulted in Rumpel "dying" and then Neal becoming really most sincerely dead. In other news, Rumpel sucks.

[kili]

It also brings into question why the hell he couldn't be bothered when Tamara was running around all evil and Pinocchio knew who was the murderer.

 

It was during one of his emo phases when he didn't care what happened to anybody (he woudln't lift a finger to stop the failsafe either). Belle had been turned into Lacey and he couldn't even be bothered to spend five minutes with the son he had harmed so many people over 300 years to reach.

 

Like Regina, Rumple's goalposts for a happy ending keep moving and having one hair out of place will send them into a selfish grief spiral.

 

That Rumpel couldn't be bothered to come and change him into August to get the info directly resulted in Neal "dying" and Henry being kidnapped which then of course resulted in Rumpel "dying" and then Neal becoming really most sincerely dead. In other news, Rumpel sucks.

 

No. No. Villains are never to blame one iota for what ends up happening. They are always the helpless victims of that nasty Author with his bizarre bias against people he erroneously labels as villains (while giving the true villains (aka heros) a pass).

[Rumsy4]

.. he couldn't even be bothered to spend five minutes with the son he had harmed so many people over 300 years to reach.

 

But he had a SYMPATHETIC reason, so it was okay. He was a father trying to reunite with his son. Really--his victims ought to be grateful he used them to serve his noble cause. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Fable]

So Rumple could have turned him back into August just like that?  That completely undermines whatever limited powers they've allowed Blue to have.  Can Rumple just do anything?

 

Why yes, anyone can do anything Dearie, if the plot requires it!

 

I heard Eion Bailey was back, so I am daring to tune back in to see if they ever address the questions they created with the missteps the made by turning him back into a child.  I have a shiny new quarter that says they won't, but on the plus side I really don't care what happens anymore! 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Fable

[KAOS Agent]

4B theme word count for this episode was a little lighter this week with 5 mentions of heroes, 1 use of villain and 3 mentions of happy ending. The heroes are winning in the overall word count with 17 total mentions to the villains 12 and happy endings 13.

[Camera One]

How did Rumple know August had the secrets about the Author?  Did he sneak over to Henry's and ate donuts poring over the storybook last night right after his nightly stalking of Belle, and noticed the pages felt a little different as well?

Edited March 17, 2015 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

Rumple knows everything.  I get that he has seer powers, but come on now!

 

Rumple knew that Hook and Belle were friends, though I would not be surprised if the twit told the Oxford prof that she and her friend Killian Jones, just because it's easier that way.  He knew that Belle trusted Hook now and would give him the fucking dagger.  

 

Seriously, WTF!

 

And I think that was Rumple!Hook in the library because of the scenes right after at Granny's and if that was fake Hook then where was real Hook?  He couldn't have been babysitting Henry since he was supposedly in the library with Emma and the rest.

[KAOS Agent]

August and Gold were working together to get Emma to believe in "The Stranger" It's not explicitly laid out what they shared but Gold says, "You claim to be the only person who can make Miss Swan believe. That you could get her to do exactly what she was brought here to do." Later in the episode, August talks to Emma about the book and she asks him why when he added his story he didn't finish it. It's really not at all unbelievable that once Gold & August started plotting away about how to convince Emma that they didn't discuss the book and the fact that August had added to it. Apparently, Rumpel then made the same ridiculous leap that Regina did about bookbinding = knowledge of the author.

Edited March 17, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[YaddaYadda]

So, Rumple mentioned the war coming to Storybrooke?  That completely flew over my head.  

[Camera One]

Everyone will need to take sides.  And they were throwing the first stone that night.  In hindsight, that didn't make a whole lot of sense.  Throwing the first stone was kidnapping Pinocchio?  The sides are pretty obvious isn't it?  I guess not, since heroes aren't all good and villains aren't all bad.©

[Mari]

August talks to Emma about the book and she asks him why when he added his story he didn't finish it. It's really not at all unbelievable that once Gold & August started plotting away about how to convince Emma that they didn't discuss the book and the fact that August had added to it. Apparently, Rumpel then made the same ridiculous leap that Regina did about bookbinding = knowledge of the author.

Yes.

 

That's another part of this Author plot that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.    August was eight years old.  He was an eight year old who hadn't even been human very long.  He was being raised by an expert wood craftsman--a smart man, but not exactly a man who'd have any knowledge about mysterious magical people.

 

So, the only place August would be able to learn about the Author would be our world.  Our world, where the fairy tales are not exactly accurate, if you are an Enchanted Forest resident.  August should know nothing.  He should know less than nothing.  Any information he has should be wrong.

 

Of course, since it's TS, TW?  I'm expecting him to hand over a vital clue or two.  Because of course the Wooden Boy/Man who lived most of his live partying in a world without magic is going to know about magical life controlling Authors.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Mari

[Shanna Marie]

How sad is this: I was actually thinking about rewatching part of this episode because I need to wind down after spending the evening helping with a teen musical production, and I knew it would be good for helping me get to sleep. I decided to make some Sleepytime tea instead. There's always the chance the episode would make me angry and start me mentally composing essays about what's wrong with it.

 

The weird thing is, theoretically, this should have been a lot more interesting, if only because Regina actually did something toward her goal other than stare at that damn book and whine about hitting roadblocks. I guess the Storybrooke parts weren't bad if you edit out some of the Mean Girls nonsense, but I think they could have done a better job of building tension. I think it was yet another case of them wanting to go with the "aha!" surprise rather than building and developing, so we cut right to the Rumple as Hook reveal without any sense otherwise of Hook and Belle being worried about whether Rumple might be involved in the Queens' return or of Rumple learning enough about Hook and Belle's relationship to know that Belle would even consider giving Hook the dagger.

 

The flashback was just a mess because it focused on Regina and her whining yet again because a child wasn't able to lie for her to keep her out of trouble. We don't even know how Mal was wronged and whether her need for revenge was any more justified than Regina's. I did enjoy the image of her as what circa 1984 Madonna would have looked like if she'd gone goth.

 

This Author plot is full of logical leaps, isn't it? First, there's the very concept, based on zero evidence, that it's the fault of some author that Regina's life isn't absolutely perfect. Her bad choices along the way couldn't possibly have had anything to do with it, and someone obviously has it in for her if they insist on people not conveniently dying to make her life better. Ugh. And now just the fact that August was apparently a good forger and knew something about bookbinding means he knows the Author?

[KAOS Agent]

 

The flashback was just a mess because it focused on Regina and her whining yet again because a child wasn't able to lie for her to keep her out of trouble. We don't even know how Mal was wronged and whether her need for revenge was any more justified than Regina's.

 

Were the events in this episode supposed to be before "The Doctor"? I kind of thought so because Young!Regina was acting naive and innocent, but her cursing the horse in a fit of jealousy (shades of Zelena there) seems at odds with her refusal to kill the unicorn. I also found it odd that she was just so determined to get Maleficent to harm a bunch of people Regina didn't know or care about. It just seems so against the idea they've always tried to show us that Regina was manipulated into going evil and it wasn't her fault because poor, poor Regina has no free will. However, she wasn't pushed into helping Maleficent do terrible things at all and she seemed to enjoy them. Yay an innocent young girl is (supposedly) cursed forever! They tried to frame it as Regina seeing someone else win gave her the belief that she'd win someday too, but that glee and excitement she got from watching someone else suffer once again shows the sadistic side we often see in the Evil Queen. It didn't help that we (and presumably Regina) didn't actually know what the conflict between Maleficent and the Royal Sleepers was.  

[Camera One]

Seriously, could those equestrian ribbons be any more petty a reason to hate Snow?  The flashbacks did nothing to enlighten us about Maleficent, and made Regina seem even more whiny and silly than previously.  And this is for a character the writers actually love to pieces?  I could sort of understand it if this was meant for Regina to reflect on how she made things worse.  I mean, Maleficent could have eventually gotten out of her funk and changed her life around if, let's say, Anna went to visit her instead.  After that episode, they'd be dancing and singing around the castle, care and fancy free.

[Dianthus]

When the QoD wanted Regina to prove how evil she was, I totally flashed on the "Eat this kitten!" bit from The Tick. At least that would've been funny.

To be fair to Emma, she did notice something was wrong with Hook in Heroes and Villains.

[kitticup]

Normally I enjoy watching OUAT. I considered it like a sweet dessert full of empty calories, so when you really look at it there is no substance there. this episode was not enjoyable even on a superficial level. Too many characters were OOC. Emma was ridiculous. Her concern was over the top and made her look dumb. snowing were underutilized.

Regina was over the top. This reminds me of A Common Fairy but not in a good way. Both episodes took iconic characters (Tinkerbelle and Malificent) and made it all about Regina. I am very bitter in an arc devoted to Neverland, we never saw any interaction between Pan and Tink, and hardly anything with Hook. I don't understand viewers who call this show Once Upon a Hook when it really Once upon a Regina. The writers have gone to the well too often with Regina on the cusp of being dark flashbacks. We don't really learn anything new about the main characters in these flashbacks and its a disservice to the other characters in the flashbacks like Mal. I want to the iconic stories and iconic characters interact. I wanted Mal and briar rose grudge match. I wanted Tink Pan and Hook scenes in Neverland.

The whole undercover thing was terribly and amateurishly done. As so many other s have said they acted like lame high school kids. Rumple masquerading as Hook, now that is how you go undercover and was well done. I feel for Belle.

Edited March 17, 2015 by kitticup

[kpw801]

She assulated a respected member of the community, kidnapped a young child and was completely unable to protect him from being tortured. I'm sure those little factoids might possilby make the heros question which side she is actually on. Team QoD may not know that Emma is complicit in the kidnapping and can at least vouch for Regina to some extent, but even she may be wondering after Regina clearly ditched her and did absolutely nothing to protect Pinocchio.

 

The kidnapping was kind of like those hazing rituals gangs are rumoured to make new members do. The act puts you on the wrong side of the law, so you end up not having much of a choice about being in the gang. It's kind of like how Cora framed Regina for murder to get the entire town against her.

 

Regina and Emma had a death grip on the Idiot Ball this episode (I don't actually blame Belle too much for getting tricked by Rumple - he played a pretty good game. That use-the-dagger-to-summon-him was a masterstroke of manipulation).

 

And did you get the subtle reveal of Hook as the Dark One when she was summoning him?  They were both standing with their faces looking into the distance.  Then when Belle says "Face me now", the camera shows the face of Hook turn immediately to face Belle who is looking the other way, so she doesn't make the connection.  I didn't notice that until I watched it again.  That was cool.  I should have see it then.  The first time I saw it I was more focused on the fact that I thought Hook wanted the dagger so he could control Rumple himself.  I was totally blown.

Edited March 17, 2015 by kpw801

[kili]

And did you get the subtle reveal of Hook as the Dark One when she was summoning him?  They were both standing with their faces looking into the distance.  Then when Belle says "Face me now", the camera shows the face of Hook turn immediately to face Belle who is looking the other way, so she doesn't make the connection.  I didn't notice that until I watched it again.

 

See, this is an earned twist.

 

We've been talking on other threads about twists pulled out of the writer's a$$ and deux ex machina that totally ruin many recent twists. You can sift through previous events and unless you fanwank like crazy, the twist has little to no ground work built up for it and it comes straight out of left field. It's like a flaming bag of poo on your doorstep when you didn't even know you had a childish enemy.

 

Here, we can re-watch and there are enough clues laid (through plot and acting - thanks Colin - it even explains why we saw Rumple  hanging about town and nobody noticing (he was probably dressed as that old guy in the cap that hangs around Grannies all the time and looks like the guy from Up)) that it is like unwrapping a present.

 

Writers, please give us more presents and fewer bags of flaming poo. TIA!

[kpw801]

Normally I enjoy watching OUAT. I considered it like a sweet dessert full of empty calories, so when you really look at it there is no substance there. this episode was not enjoyable even on a superficial level. Too many characters were OOC. Emma was ridiculous. Her concern was over the top and made her look dumb. snowing were underutilized.

I agree "snowing" was underutilized.  They just looked like dumb props in the library scene.  They just stood around.  To me - although I enjoyed the episode anyway - it seemed like some kind of live action comic book episode.  Even the clothes - Emma and those stupid knit hats - she looks like a blonde version of one of the Scoobie Doo girls.  I think someone mentioned the Scoobie Doo similarity upthread.  I think the writers don't know what to do with a pudgy Ginnifer Goodwin.  She just stands around in concealing jackets looking dumbfounded all the time.  The scene where she was riding the horse you could tell they had another person on the horse in the distance with her voice dubbed over sounding like she was riding the horse.  Remember all the earlier fairy backs had her in those cool bandit get ups with gloves and leather or suede pants.  Now she just wears these big oversized cloaks.  They really need to work on the make up too.

Regina was over the top. This reminds me of A Common Fairy but not in a good way. Both episodes took iconic characters (Tinkerbelle and Malificent) and made it all about Regina. I am very bitter in an arc devoted to Neverland, we never saw any interaction between Pan and Tink, and hardly anything with Hook. I don't understand viewers who call this show Once Upon a Hook when it really Once upon a Regina. The writers have gone to the well too often with Regina on the cusp of being dark flashbacks. We don't really learn anything new about the main characters in these flashbacks and its a disservice to the other characters in the flashbacks like Mal. I want to the iconic stories and iconic characters interact. I wanted Mal and briar rose grudge match. I wanted Tink Pan and Hook scenes in Neverland.

The whole undercover thing was terribly and amateurishly done. As so many other s have said they acted like lame high school kids. Rumple masquerading as Hook, now that is how you go undercover and was well done. I feel for Belle.

[KingOfHearts]

Rumple is aware Regina is a double agent, apparently. Belle asked about what object Regina was supposed to help the Queens steal in front of him.

Edited March 17, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[kili]

Rumple is aware Regina is a double agent, apparently. Belle asked about what object Regina was supposed to help the Queens steal in front of him.

 

We came in part way through that conversation, but I believe that Rumple is the one that revealed that to Belle. He, as Hook, asks to speak to her in private and I believe he uses the fact that Regina is going to steal something for the QoD as an opening to convince Belle that the dagger is that object to be stolen. Therefore, she should give it to Hook. Rumple knows Belle so well that she he knows she will fear that he knows her well enough to know where she might hide the dagger. So, like Sawyer taught us with all good cons, he lets her make it her idea that Humple should take it and hide it.

 

Rumple knowing Regina is a double agent and knowing that Hook knows this is why I think Humple is in the library and not Hook. That and he is supiciously non-yappy and non-touchy (usually he touches Emma when she is getting distraught).

 

I hope Hook was in the clutches of somebody while this all went down.I like a good plan and having the potential for Hook to stumble onto the scene (Grannies, outdoors or Gold's shop) is bad planning. I want at least one character to be able to smart enough to create a cohesive plan, Plus, Rumple has already been shown to be an accomplished pirate-napper. Even Hook and Emma, not always the best planners, waylaid Past Hook when they needed Current Hook to pretend to be him. Surely, Rumple learnt something from that trick.

[Camera One]

If Rumple knows Regina is a double agent, doesn't that make the entire plan useless and as usual, make the heroes' actions completely pointless in every way?  No surprise there, I guess.  

 

Regardless, I think Rumple truly believes he can puppet Regina into turning back to the Dark Side despite her current double agent status (I mean, he has played the strings in her life so many times in the past, to him, why would it not work now?).  Maybe he thinks once August reveals the secrets of the Author, Regina would realize (maybe with some condition that Rumple will suddenly reveal out of the blue) that if she didn't join Team Evil, she would never get her Happy Ending.  

Edited March 17, 2015 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

Rumple thinks Regina is ripe for the taking.  His comment to the QoD was that Regina's first heart break turned her into a monster (and we know who the helping hand was with that) and now her heart is broken again (or whatever).  Rumple thinks he can use her, he probably will try.

[Shanna Marie]

Regardless, I think Rumple truly believes he can puppet Regina into turning back to the Dark Side despite her current double agent status

Would he even have to work that hard? Maybe she wouldn't go full-on evil, but what would she do to find the Author and petition for a happy ending? She only held back from totally browbeating child Pinocchio because his father put his foot down and everyone else, including Henry, was horrified at her actions. What would she have done if she'd been alone with the child? And now that he's an adult again who presumably knows something (or else is a good forger and knows something about bookbinding), would she have any qualms about doing anything to him as long as it gets her what she wants? Would she cooperate with Team Evil and lie to the others if she thought she was making more progress toward the Author this way? She might rationalize it to herself as being a part of her cover mission, but I'm not sure she could make herself turn back if she was learning more than she did in the previous six weeks.

 

And that may be why Emma's freaking out. Regina doesn't exactly have a strong spine when it comes to relapsing into evil, and she could be on a very slippery slope if she's not being monitored.

 

Which brings up yet another reason that this Author plot and any other character endorsing it is so stupid. If Regina's willing to browbeat a child or go along with torturing a man to get her happy ending, is she qualified for one? If they're so worried about her slipping back into evil, is she really good, and is she yet ready to merit a happy ending?

[kili]

Regardless, I think Rumple truly believes he can puppet Regina into turning back to the Dark Side despite her current double agent status (I mean, he has played the strings in her life so many times in the past, to him, why would it not work now?).

 

Well, there is that, plus I think that now he has the dagger, he is basically off the chain. He doesn't care who knows what, where or how. What are they going to do to him? He used to hide things a little because he didn't want Belle to know that he was all Evil again, but the cat is out of that bag and having kittens. He's got all the magic he needs and three reasonably capable witches in his corner. The other guys have Regina (a cream puff compared to him) and Emma (who has little to no control of her power). Oh,and Blue (whatever).

 

Regina can go back and report anything she wants to Snowing, Emma and Hook (if he isn't currently locked in the trunk of Cruella's car). Rumple thinks he's got this and probably figures Regina will play the odds and side with him, but doesn't care if she doesn't.

 

He was probably just using Regina anyway as a distraction. He kept the QoD, Regina, Emma and Snowing busy on the other side of town while he tricked Belle into giving him the dagger (he wouldn't want the QoD to know he didn't have it or give them a chance to get it first). Like he or the QoD couldn't have kidnapped Pinocchio 17 times a day if they wanted to. They all knew where he lived (Cruella's car took them there in GoogleCar mode). Regina was not needed for that at all. Rumple can freeze people and Mal can put people to sleep, so Regina wasn't necessary. Gepetto's only defence is a fierce glare and some truth bombs. Rumple and the QoD's wouldn't have even paused.

[Camera One]

And that may be why Emma's freaking out. Regina doesn't exactly have a strong spine when it comes to relapsing into evil, and she could be on a very slippery slope if she's not being monitored.

 

That would be a very legitimate reason, But she did not vocalize this to anyone, and all we've gotten are statements that they have 100% faith in Regina.  

 

Well, there is that, plus I think that now he has the dagger, he is basically off the chain. He doesn't care who knows what, where or how. What are they going to do to him?

 

That's the bigger problem with this storyline.  There is NOTHING the heroes can do against him.  Nada.  If Belle weren't in town, I don't think he would care if he was out in the open. Actually, even the Belle problem isn't actually a problem since he can technically give her a sleeping spell until all is said and done, and he has accomplished his goals.  It's not like he hasn't done that before.  The secret agent thing was, I thought, a tiny way for the "good guys" to at least get a slight one-up on the villains, but now it's a moot point since Rumple probably knows all.  

[KingOfHearts]

 

The secret agent thing was, I thought, a tiny way for the "good guys" to at least get a slight one-up on the villains, but now it's a moot point since Rumple probably knows all.

It's like Henry working for Rumple 4A. The fact Gold knew all along just made it utterly pointless. And no, furniture polish being called "magical" is not comic relief, show!

 

Rumple having the dagger is... meh. It sounds like the villains are once again going to be overpowered and unbeatable until the last second, when Gauntlet of Mighty Contrivances saves the day. I was excited about the uneasy alliances and blurry battlefield, but this episode shattered that fairly quickly. Regina's more like a hostage than a double agent now. With knowing Rumple is the ring leader, there's no way she's going to default to Team Villain. It's so boring to watch heroes be bland idiots* all the time.

 

* They're not idiots themselves, but the writing portrays them as such by making them do dumb OOC things and constantly giving villains the upper hand.

Edited March 17, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[pezgirl7]

Big Question: Where the hell does a train in Storybrooke come from ..(and where does it go) ?

 

I thought people could pass through the town, either on the road, or train tracks, but they wouldn't actually be able to see the town or the people, as if they were in a 2nd dimension. Which makes me wonder if the QoD were even in any danger of being hit by the train.

[Mitch]

I thought people could pass through the town, either on the road, or train tracks, but they wouldn't actually be able to see the town or the people, as if they were in a 2nd dimension. Which makes me wonder if the QoD were even in any danger of being hit by the train.

Yea, but they really need to explain that to us...I mean, would the train hit one of the flying monkeys when it was going by???  They could have easily made this stuff much easier on them if they would have just gone with, the rest of the world sees Storybrooke but thinks its a boring crap hole that one one would go to. They could have stuck with the..."Anyone who leaves town reverts to cursed memories," and left it at that...no Ice Wall, no Snow Queen curse, no flying monkeys in New York...etc.

[stealinghome]

Rumple having the dagger is... meh. It sounds like the villains are once again going to be overpowered and unbeatable until the last second, when Gauntlet of Mighty Contrivances saves the day. I was excited about the uneasy alliances and blurry battlefield, but this episode shattered that fairly quickly. Regina's more like a hostage than a double agent now. With knowing Rumple is the ring leader, there's no way she's going to default to Team Villain.

I honestly think the writers just aren't SMART enough to write a tense, interesting, Machiavellian political-esque "who is playing who?" storyline.

[Camera One]

Agreed.  They could have established a variety of different cross-alliances.  But it's hard to feel any interest or anticipation for this because it has already been established that the Queens of Darkness were often just Rumple's patsies, and he can take all three on at once.  The Maleficent/Regina flashback made Maleficent seem even more pathetic than she did previously.  It's more a case of who's more stupid, rather than a chess-game of who would outwit who. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

Actually what has been taking me out of this is the fact that they named those 3 the Queens of Darkness.  Like why?  Because they're not.  The snippets we got so far, Maleficent looked absolutely pathetic and depressed because well we really don't know...

 

Cruella seems to be interested in rich guys.

 

Ursula is very mild-mannered.

 

Queens of Darkness they ain't.

[Camera One]

In fact, all three seem to have "let go" of their pathetic vendettas for awhile and lived a life, albeit often a miserable one.  If anything, Regina and Rumple should learn from them.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Camera One

[Camera One]

Another let-down in this episode was the meeting between Regina and Maleficent for the first time in 28+ Years.  We still don't even know why Regina decided to be especially nasty, trapping Maleficent in the basement of the Library in Dragon form.  But no worries, a night of drinking cures all.  Isn't it nice when villains are so forgiving?

Edited March 17, 2015 by Camera One

[Mari]

Another let-down in this episode was the meeting between Regina and Maleficent for the first time in 28+ Years.  We still don't even know why Regina decided to be especially nasty, trapping Maleficent in the basement of the Library in Dragon form.  

Considering the weird morality of this show, and the crazy way it was framed, as well as how Regina/Maleficent met and how we were supposed to think Regina helping Maleficent redragon and kill people was a fabulous, bonding power moment?

 

Regina might've just been sentimental and nostalgic, trying to save Maleficent from being the school janitor, or something. 

[Camera One]

These are some quotes from the Season 1 finale:

 

Mr. Gold: Tell me, your Majesty, is our friend still in the basement?
Regina: Oh, you twisted little imp. You hid it with her?
Mr. Gold: Oh no no no, not with her. In her. I knew you couldn't resist bringing her over.
Emma: Who is "her"?

 

Emma: This battle I'm supposed to fight—who is it? What is down there?
Regina: An old friend.
Emma: Then why don't you go talk to them?
Regina: Because her punishment here was different than everyone else's. I trapped her... in a different form. She doesn't wanna hear from me. You have to trust me on that.
Emma: Okay, I will go down there. But let's be clear about something... "your Majesty". The only reason you're not dead is because I need your help to save Henry. If he dies... so do you.

 

---

 

I wonder if Regina told Maleficent that Rumple hid a potion inside of her.  

[tennisgurl]

There are a lot of wonky moral issues here, but I really want to emphasize one thing...Regina sleeping spelled a poor horse! Leave the animals out of this! And we were supposed to be cheering for her? The horse killer? That would be NO. 

[queenbee]

A little late to the party -- like most others I thought Hook/Rumple was the best part of the episode. I felt that Colin did a really great job, incorporating some of Rumple's speech patterns and mannerisms. For example, when standing with Belle waiting for her to hand over the dagger, he did that thing Rumple does where he rolls his hand into a fist and rubs his fingers against his palm. Rumple often does this when nervous or emotional (such as just before trying to TLK Belle in the hospital when she had amnesia.) The final scene was good too, when Rumple-pretending-to-be-Hook asked Belle if it was serious with Will and his voice hitched as if he was struggling to get the words out. Belle is very gullible, which at least is a consistent part of her characterization. Of course, like the rest of the characters, Belle is exactly as clever or as silly as the plot requires her to be.

 

And again, the writers have failed to show as things that might actually be interesting and which might actually make sense. Belle and Hook are suddenly insta-friends and she trusts him with the dagger? How about showing us how they came to be friends? Oh, right, that would be boring, just like any other scene that doesn't involve Regina or a large explosion of some kind.

 

Don't get me started on kidnapping Pinocchio -- how could Emma go along with that? Seriously wonky morals here.

 

Again, Rumple views Belle as a possession, although at least this is also consistent with past characterization.

 

I'm starting to lose interest in this show.

[Rhodri]

 

I wonder if Regina told Maleficent that Rumple hid a potion inside of her.

Forgot about all that.  Another major past plot point and horrific deed completely glossed over.  You would think Mal would bring this up with Regina (but we all LUUVVV her so never mind).  But on the other hand, if Regina really wanted to wreck subtle havoc on the queens, this would be a good time to bring up Rumpel's involvement.

[orza]

I wonder if Regina told Maleficent that Rumple hid a potion inside of her.

 

That makes no sense. Why should Regina bring it up? It's not her issue. Regina didn't know about the potion at the time that Charming put the egg inside of Maleficent, so she had nothing to tell. Maleficent had all her memories after Rumple brought her back from the ashes so she didn't need anyone to tell her about what Charming did. She probably knows that Rumple was behind it and clearly it is not bothering her enough to prevent her from working with him.

[KingOfHearts]

The flashbacks could have been written better, at least in my head. Just some tweaks here and there. I think the audience would have been able to appreciate the climax better if we knew why Maleficent had a beef with Briar Rose. I suspect there was an explanation off-screen since Regina got so angry about the wedding invitation. We needed to see less of Regina "encouraging" and more of Maleficent's story. I also think the iconic scene where Aurora gets cursed should have had way more time and gravitas. It was done so quickly and with Regina giggling in the background it felt so shallow.

Edited March 18, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Joanh23]

Ok so this is a random comment but after this flashback I'm left wondering how was Regina able to trick anyone into thinking that she loved a young Snow, anytime we see her she's never trying to be discreet about her hatred!  Surely someone in the castle must have heard her having a rant about Snow at some stage.

[Shanna Marie]

I rewatched last night, and I found it to be even more boring. I pretty much ended up tuning out the whole thing other than the scenes where Rumple was posing as Hook. I think most of the boredom came from the fact that it was so Regina-heavy. I'm pretty much over Regina at this point. I have zero sympathy for her search for the Author, and I have zero sympathy for her revenge quest against Snow. Combine those two, and the lack of sympathy intensifies into a massive explosion of not caring at all, and her past pettiness totally undermines any validity to the entitled quest for a happy ending. For this to have worked at all, we would have needed just the tiniest hint of why Maleficent was so mad at Briar Rose that she was existing in a drugged-out stupor some twenty or more years later. Did Briar Rose do something to her, or was it romantic jealousy over Stefan? I really, really hope it wasn't romantic jealousy because I'm tired of the "waaah, why don't I have a boyfriend" motivation of so many of the female villains on this show. That's one reason I have trouble taking Regina seriously, since all her motivations for every major thing she's done in her life seem to come back to a boyfriend.

 

The Rumple as Hook thing remains fascinating. The library scene seems to be carefully neutral (though apparently a writer gave the definitive answer), as there's nothing that really indicates either way. That one would have been really risky for Rumple to pull off unless he had the real Hook stashed somewhere. I do wonder where the real Hook was during all this. If he was tied up and stashed somewhere, then either Rumple can't let him out without revealing the deception (since Hook would surely tell if he'd been locked up in a basement somewhere all day) or he's okay with people knowing he's back now that he has the dagger -- but then would he want Belle to know she was deceived? But if he keeps Hook locked up, how long before someone notices he's missing? Probably someone would notice within a week or two (at least there's precedent for no one noticing when he's gone for large chunks of time), and then surely Belle would start to wonder.

 

If Rumple just took advantage of knowing that Hook was off with David at the Rabbit Hole, where the two of them were commiserating on their significant others' bizarre obsession with Regina, then I do think that the conversation with Belle about Will could be what trips Rumple up. Rumple didn't swear Belle to secrecy about talking about Will, and what Rumple told her was very different from the truth. One chat with Will or Hook would reveal that something was fishy. And it is a shame that one of the few conversations Hook has ever been allowed to have that wasn't in any way about Emma wasn't really Hook.

 

But wow, that performance is still amazing, managing to really come across as Rumple pretending to be Hook, getting a mix of mannerisms of both characters. And if you remove the boob grabbing and creepy ex-husband stalking context from the conversation about Will, it's actually a kind of cute scene, the way he plays it, with the catch in his voice and the trying to be brave about it. Someone cast this man in a good romantic comedy, stat, because it was so much the scene of the best friend guy realizing that the girl he loves is with someone else.

[orza]

The purpose of the flashback was to show how Regina and Maleficent met and became friends it was not about the Sleeping Beauty story at all. That was just the setup for the real story they were telling in the flashback. The history between Regina and Maleficent is important to the story they are telling, Aurora's back-story is not.

[kili]

The history between Regina and Maleficent is important to the story they are telling, Aurora's back-story is not.

 

They hinted to us that Mal's story is tied up with Aurora's story, though. I'm left not caring about Mal and her problems or that Regina helped turn her back into a murdering jerk. If I knew what horrible crime Briar Rose committed that justified not only putting a sleeping curse on her, but also her daughter, maybe I would care that Mal was in a deep funk and that she needed to get out of it. But, the flashbacks left me not knowing or caring.

 

In fact, given that I just watched Mal roast three guards because she was too lazy to walk a few miles out of her way or fly her friends over the gorge, I'm left with thinking that Mal being in a deep funk was a good thing and Regina did a massive diservice to the world by helping her get her Evil back.

 

If the theme of Operation Mongoose is that the definitions of villains and heros are abritrary and harmful to the villains and prevent them from getting a happy ending, this episode did nothing to convince me of that. The villains are evil and do not deserve a happy ending.

 

I have one woman being petty about somebody developing a skill (horse-riding), convincing another woman to kill and torture innocent people,  torturing an innocent creature (leaving a horse sleep cursed to spend eternity in a burning, confusing room), being very rude to friends,  knocking out an old man who helped her the day before, kidnapping a young child and not lifting a finger to protect that child knowing that he has just been threatened with torture.

 

I have another woman in a deep funk because a sleeping curse that she did on somebody who, as far as we know, has done nothing wrong was reversed with a TLK. She gets her evil back and starts killing guards and goes to torture a young woman who has never done anything to her in her life. She also gets her friend to kidnap a child so the child can be kidnapped. Bonus: she commits vandalism around town for some kind of hazing ritual.

 

The  heros do nothing either evil or non-evil.

 

I'm left underwhelmed. So far, the villains are villains and the heros are just there. Nothing new here. We already knew Mal and Regina were friends. We learned that in episode 2 of the series. I don't think that flashback added any new information we needed to have. I would like some new information, please.

 

When is this story arc going to get moving along?

Edited March 18, 2015 by kili