Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[MunichNark]

Truly horrifying. How could they let him near her? How does he get to be a Security Officer at a College???? I'm actually tempted to ask them if they are aware of this.

This is what you get with those kinds of beliefs. A 31 year old woman thinking she has to marry or else be shunted around willing Families forevermore. A guy of that age who hasn't found a mate until now in their circle clearly has major issues. Otherwise he'd have been married long ago. He's creepy.

[Arwen Evenstar]

31 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Unfortunately, I have seen other documentation that has him moving between TN and VA, but home addresss Powell, TN. IIRC, that's the home of Clown College. If I had to guess, his assault was on a student who was convinced by her parents to drop charges because Jesus. And patriarchy.

I was afraid you'd say that, but in the words of NCIS agent, Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #____: There's no such thing as a coincidence. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

11 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Holy shit, the picture, as well as the deets, except for birth year, really make it look like this is Tabby Paine's fiancee. Other more personal information I've seen pretty much confirms it. I'll just leave this here without further comment other than I am really disappointed in Dr. Paine for letting this guy near his daughter. 

http://web.archive.org/web/20170110220205/http://www.sorarchive.com/directory/TN/R/Timothy_Robertson_1262982

Run, Tabby! Run! 

[Patricia07]

Perhaps one of those entertainment/gossip sites who supposedly scout this and other Duggar sites will pick up on this and do a little research of their own?

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Unfortunately, I have seen other documentation that has him moving between TN and VA, but home address is Powell, TN. IIRC, that's the home of Clown College. If I had to guess, his assault was on a student who was convinced by her parents to drop charges because Jesus. And patriarchy.

I just scrolled through the list of friends on Tim's FB page and a good chunk of them are from various cities in NC and VA, both of which were listed as previous residence states corresponding to the Tim Robertson with the Powell address. I don't think the mug shot looks like the current Tim, but I know I have to keep in mind that things like weight gain, hair loss and the absence of facial hair can greatly change one's appearance. Unless there was some serious wire crossing, this is looking really, really bad. My only hesitation is on why Clown College would still keep him employed. That sounds like a huge liability to take on in exchange for an $8 an hour security guard.

[Sew Sumi]

Remember, that mugshot is almost 20 years old. 

[BitterApple]

6 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Remember, that mugshot is almost 20 years old. 

Very true and I think men change more drastically in terms of looks than women. I wasn't able to make it to my 20 year high school reunion, but when I looked at the pictures on FB, I recognized the girls immediately but had no idea who the guys were unless they were tagged.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Some people age horribly.  I know women and men 3  to 5 years younger than me who look 20 years older than me. I'm a product of good genes, good health, and clean living, all which to some degree also make a difference.  Diabetes and other medical conditions also can age people.

[GeeGolly]

The sex offender pic is from archive records and states his age as 41, yet the crime happened in 1999 when he would have been 29. The fact that it's an archive record has me thinking he is no longer on the list and that in ended when he was 41. From what I have seen in news stories it's fairly hard to get off the list. I've read stories of a 16 year old's parents finding out their daughter was having sex with a 18 or 19 year old boyfriend and pressing charges and the young man has to register as a sex offender for life. But they have to register after been proven guilty.

Maybe he was charged with some offense, found guilty, registered, fought the charges and they were reversed. But the picture, the name and the date of birth have me thinking it is the same dude.

Edited January 14, 2017 by GeeGolly
wrong word

[Sew Sumi]

Would he have to register if the victim was over 18? Again, I'm thinking a Clown College date rape or at minimum an assault/attempted rape situation. Laws in all states are different; maybe he was in the registry for a certain number of years but is now expunged? Again, I am clueless.

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Would he have to register if the victim was over 18? Again, I'm thinking a Clown College date rape or at minimum an assault/attempted rape situation. Laws in all states are different; maybe he was in the registry for a certain number of years but is now expunged? Again, I am clueless.

Sex offenses happen to people of all ages. The registry is not just for offenses against minors.

[Arwen Evenstar]

One can be stuck being listed as a registered sex offender merely for dying to pee and having a piss when they thought nobody was watching. That would totally suck. Sexual assault is another kettle of fish entirely and far more egregious.

[BitterApple]

If you dig deep through his FB posts, you'll see he's an anti-Obama, anti-immigration, anti-gay  pro-gun ball of rage. He even goes on a rant because *gasp* several women dared to show up for the men's meeting at his church! One of his friends even responded that the pastor encouraged women to attend, but Ole Tim claimed it was an "act of rebellion." Tabitha scored herself a real peach.

Edited January 14, 2017 by BitterApple

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

If you dig deep through his FB posts, you'll see he's an anti-Obama, anti-immigration, anti-gay  pro-gun ball of rage. He even goes on a rant because *gasp* several women dared to show up for the men's meeting at this church! One of his friends even responded that the pastor encouraged women to attend, but Ole Tim claimed it was an "act of rebellion." Tabitha scored herself a real peach.

Looks like he ticks all the Fundy boxes. By their standards, he's super godly. Shhhheeeeeeesh.

[Absolom]

Someone on FJ found a record showing he had a pardon for the offense.

[Sew Sumi]

44 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Someone on FJ found a record showing he had a pardon for the offense.

This is where I assume that the girl's family dropped charges or something along those lines. In the end, "forgiven" like Smuggar's "mild, inappropriate touching." Ugh, fundies. Even if you believe in God, there's still a thing called personal responsibility. 

eta: He pled guilty in 2000 and ws pardoned in 2008. In TN, non-violent offenders can have their names removed from the registry after 10 years. I assume that dates to the crime? So if he offended in early '99, and pardoned in late '08, that's nearly a decade. Probably got bonus for good behavior or something. But the fact remains that he pled guilty! 

And how on earth is this guy working as a security guard around young women?  Sick!

Edited January 14, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[RazzleberryPie]

6 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

In the Welcome to Melbourne photo, Davia not only looks like an old lady, she looks sinister. Perhaps she's cooking up some plot to do in her nutty parents. 

Sinister = Evil Baby Genius OR getting ready to take a massive poop. Sometimes both. I think she's cute. She can't help it if her parents are oddballs.

5 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I hope for Tabby's sake that this isn't true. Tim Robertson is a common enough name and he's what Mr Evenstar would call a "type", as in he looks ordinary enough to look like a lot of people.

I'd hate it that this poor girl who has treasured her purity for 30 years has to give her precious virginity to THAT. What sort of father safeguards his daughter's purity like these Gothard men do and then give her away to the likes of Joshley or a presumed closeted guy like TFDW?

That's the creepiest part about these dads - Pa Keller, now Mr. Paine, who knows who else, guard their daughter's purity to hand them off to men who cannot control their sexual urges and blame women for it. So did this guy choose Tabster because she's desperate and because she's plain and won't tempt him?

As wary as I am of TFDW, I'd rather be stuck with a potentially closeted guy than a molestor or assaulter. 

47 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

If you dig deep through his FB posts, you'll see he's an anti-Obama, anti-immigration, anti-gay  pro-gun ball of rage. He even goes on a rant because *gasp* several women dared to show up for the men's meeting at his church! One of his friends even responded that the pastor encouraged women to attend, but Ole Tim claimed it was an "act of rebellion." Tabitha scored herself a real peach.

See my comment above - did this guy, who clearly has a problem with anyone who threatens his authority as a White Christian Male, choose Tabster because she is desperate and won't challenge him, he can 100% control her, and she's just plain enough not to tempt him into sin or control him in any way? He may be the worst of the bunch. 

I feel for her. At least in her father's house, or as a permanent spinster tutor, she won't be assaulted, or at least we hope.

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

This is where I assume that the girl's family dropped charges or something along those lines. In the end, "forgiven" like Smuggar's "mild, inappropriate touching." Ugh, fundies. Even if you believe in God, there's still a thing called personal responsibility. 

eta: He pled guilty in 2000 and ws pardoned in 2008. In TN, non-violent offenders can have their names removed from the registry after 10 years. I assume that dates to the crime? So if he offended in early '99, and pardoned in late '08, that's nearly a decade. Probably got bonus for good behavior or something. But the fact remains that he pled guilty! 

And how on earth is this guy working as a security guard around young women?  Sick!

As much as it nauseates me to 'defend' Josh, at least he was a kid during his inappropriate touching days. This guy was 29 when he pled guilty to assault. Huge difference in a stunted teenager and a full grown man.

[Arwen Evenstar]

10 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

As much as it nauseates me to 'defend' Josh, at least he was a kid during his inappropriate touching days. This guy was 29 when he pled guilty to assault. Huge difference in a stunted teenager and a full grown man.

May also explain his rage toward the women at his church....."some woman" who dared to defend herself against him by getting him an offender's record. This is looking worse and worse for Tabby.

[RazzleberryPie]

3 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

May also explain his rage toward the women at his church....."some woman" who dared to defend herself against him by getting him an offender's record. This is looking worse and worse for Tabby.

Absolutely 100% agree. That type thinks women are leading them on by merely existing, and that any sort of attention, even if it's just saying hello or sitting in the same room, is consent. Actually going on a date = you've sold your soul and he can do anything he wants, and you can't say no. I hope I'm not exaggerating with this guy, but he screams that type. Make Derrick, Bin, JD, etc., look like princes.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Bin and Derick are far too gentle for me to get threatening vibes from them. Derick behaves on Twitter like he's unhinged, but he's harmless otherwise and wouldn't say "Boo!" to a goose.  And, why am I so sure? For all their talk about headship, it's very clear to everyone on this forum that Jill and Jessa rule the roost.

[Westiepeach]

8 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Bin and Derick are far too gentle for me to get threatening vibes from them. Derick behaves on Twitter like he's unhinged, but he's harmless otherwise and wouldn't say "Boo!" to a goose.  And, why am I so sure? For all their talk about headship, it's very clear to everyone on this forum that Jill and Jessa rule the roost.

I have no doubt Jessa rules her roost. Jill? Not so sure.

[ariel]

1 minute ago, Westiepeach said:

I have no doubt Jessa rules her roost. Jill? Not so sure.

I don't think Jill even knows what rule & roost means.  She's as dumb as a box of rocks.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Sinister = Evil Baby Genius OR getting ready to take a massive poop. Sometimes both. I think she's cute. She can't help it if her parents are oddballs.

That's the creepiest part about these dads - Pa Keller, now Mr. Paine, who knows who else, guard their daughter's purity to hand them off to men who cannot control their sexual urges and blame women for it. So did this guy choose Tabster because she's desperate and because she's plain and won't tempt him?

As wary as I am of TFDW, I'd rather be stuck with a potentially closeted guy than a molestor or assaulter. 

See my comment above - did this guy, who clearly has a problem with anyone who threatens his authority as a White Christian Male, choose Tabster because she is desperate and won't challenge him, he can 100% control her, and she's just plain enough not to tempt him into sin or control him in any way? He may be the worst of the bunch. 

I feel for her. At least in her father's house, or as a permanent spinster tutor, she won't be assaulted, or at least we hope.

Dr. Paine is named in the Gothard lawsuit from his days as a doctor working for IBLP. One young woman claims that she was sexually assaulted and Dr. Paine told her to take an aspirin or something equally idiotic. He TOTALLY IGNORED HER REAL ISSUE. And as a physician, he's a mandatory reporter WHO DIDN'T REPORT. 

Dr. Paine is trash, and I hope he's made to pay in the Gothard lawsuit (remember that Gil Bates is also named as a defendant). The patriarchy is not a safe place for most of these poor SAHDs looking for husbands. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[RazzleberryPie]

36 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Bin and Derick are far too gentle for me to get threatening vibes from them. Derick behaves on Twitter like he's unhinged, but he's harmless otherwise and wouldn't say "Boo!" to a goose.  And, why am I so sure? For all their talk about headship, it's very clear to everyone on this forum that Jill and Jessa rule the roost.

I agree, and wasn't saying Bin and Derrick are sexual deviants of any sort, if it sounded that way. They're both being enabled to be really lazy, but neither of them scare me. Jessa scares me far more than either of them. What I am saying, is as lazy as Derrick has become, and as unfocused as Bin is (seems like he's throwing every five minute interest at the wall and not sticking around to see what sticks, but at least he's doing something besides begging for donations), neither of them are anywhere near these sexual assaulters and child molestors are on the Bad Husband Picked by Daddy scale.

No wonder Jana isn't rushing into anything, if so many of these weridos are in their 'dating' pool.

[Sew Sumi]

Well, according to Dr. Jill in the Megyn Kelly interview, "statistics say" that "mild inappropriate touching" happens in 2/3 of ALL households. Fundies are so warped. I actually dug up the interview and posted it on FJ about a month ago because I was being challenged on the statistic that Jill tossed out. But no, it was dead on. 

Now, this guy didn't assault a sibling, and he was an adult, but their patriarchal structure makes it so easy for men to dominate women in the most horrible ways and makes it almost impossible for women to get justice. 

Which reminds me, this explains a lot about Sierra: 

http://dojosdesigns.blogspot.ca/2017/01/finding-joy-in-season-of-loneliness.html

[RazzleberryPie]

7 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Well, according to Dr. Jill in the Megyn Kelly interview, "statistics say" that "mild inappropriate touching" happens in 2/3 of ALL households. Fundies are so warped. I actually dug up the interview and posted it on FJ about a month ago because I was being challenged on the statistic that Jill tossed out. But no, it was dead on. 

Now, this guy didn't assault a sibling, and he was an adult, but their patriarchal structure makes it so easy for men to dominate women in the most horrible ways and makes it almost impossible for women to get justice. 

Which reminds me, this explains a lot about Sierra: 

http://dojosdesigns.blogspot.ca/2017/01/finding-joy-in-season-of-loneliness.html

Dang it! Don't make me go feeling bad for Sierra! That really does explain a whole lot. I don't even think she grew up fundie, but ran to it as protection. Ironic part is, far more of these people seem to be involved in sexual misconduct than the general population, and normal conservative Christians. 

[BitterApple]

Poor Sierra. The sad thing is, she basically ran from one abusive situation to another. She talks about her mother and husband like they're heroes, but her Mom still forced her to attend family gatherings where her abuser would be present and her husband kept impregnating her even though she was buckling under the stress. I hope she got real counseling, but part of me wonders if she keeps super busy as a way of avoiding bad memories.

[Arwen Evenstar]

33 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I agree, and wasn't saying Bin and Derrick are sexual deviants of any sort, if it sounded that way. They're both being enabled to be really lazy, but neither of them scare me. Jessa scares me far more than either of them. What I am saying, is as lazy as Derrick has become, and as unfocused as Bin is (seems like he's throwing every five minute interest at the wall and not sticking around to see what sticks, but at least he's doing something besides begging for donations), neither of them are anywhere near these sexual assaulters and child molestors are on the Bad Husband Picked by Daddy scale.

No wonder Jana isn't rushing into anything, if so many of these weridos are in their 'dating' pool.

Aw, sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought you said Bin and Derick were deviants, just meant to say that I agreed with you that many Fundy girls are likely to do far worse than Bin or Derick. At least Boob seems to have a distaste for doing this to his daughters, though he had no qualms about unloading his problem child Joshley on an innocent and unsuspecting Anna.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

Poor Sierra. The sad thing is, she basically ran from one abusive situation to another. She talks about her mother and husband like they're heroes, but her Mom still forced her to attend family gatherings where her abuser would be present and her husband kept impregnating her even though she was buckling under the stress. I hope she got real counseling, but part of me wonders if she keeps super busy as a way of avoiding bad memories.

"Another side note: Mom's of sexual abuse victims are a level of warrior I'm in awe of. They cry, fight, console, hold, and demand truth."

Like you said she continued to let this person be around her daughter, they went to his funeral. I'm guessing they never pressed charges against him.

[awaken]

Oh man.  I feel sad for her and all that has already been mentioned by you all above.  

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, she basically had her laundry room breakdown after just two kids and has never sought real counseling for her lingering issues. I feel for her. She basically kept breeding to keep the bogeyman away as well as keep her husband feeling virile. 

Finding your joy is awesome, but sometimes talk therapy is useful to truly deal with these issues once and for all. 

[awaken]

Her explanation for the wrinkles and looking old, older than her husband, and staying so busy- heartbreaking.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, awaken said:

Her explanation for the wrinkles and looking old, older than her husband, and staying so busy- heartbreaking.

"Find your joy. Ignore the voice that says you "can't". Ignore the people on the internet that troll your life, to try and destroy it. Ignore the people IN your life that try and destroy you. Jealousy can be ugly. Don't let their jealousy affect you. Just keep going. Little tiny baby steps, seeking God's will for your life, and finding the moments that make us smile."

[Sew Sumi]

Jessa's tight with Sierra. Aren't they bible study buddies? At any rate, Sierra could teach her a thing or two about how to approach critics. Sierra's advice is what I've advocated for the Duggars and Bateses forever: IGNORE IT! 

[awaken]

I wonder if they've had any real heart to heart talks about some of their unfortunately mutual early life experiences.  I hope they have been able to find true support in one another.  

[Sew Sumi]

It would be great if that was the case. Jessa's exterior is so tough and hard that one can't really tell what's going on inside, what kind of pain and suffering she endures and walls off, or if she's totally compartmentalized it into nothingness.

[RazzleberryPie]

40 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Aw, sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought you said Bin and Derick were deviants, just meant to say that I agreed with you that many Fundy girls are likely to do far worse than Bin or Derick. At least Boob seems to have a distaste for doing this to his daughters, though he had no qualms about unloading his problem child Joshley on an innocent and unsuspecting Anna.

Exactly. Something is still really 'off' when lazy bums who never seem to have real jobs or focus in life end up being the Prince Charmings of the bunch.

21 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Jessa's tight with Sierra. Aren't they bible study buddies? At any rate, Sierra could teach her a thing or two about how to approach critics. Sierra's advice is what I've advocated for the Duggars and Bateses forever: IGNORE IT! 

Bet you anything she's on some good anti-depressants, too. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

11 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Exactly. Something is still really 'off' when lazy bums who never seem to have real jobs or focus in life end up being the Prince Charmings of the bunch.

Yeah.  Something is way off and it's too depressing to fathom.

[Sew Sumi]

22 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Exactly. Something is still really 'off' when lazy bums who never seem to have real jobs or focus in life end up being the Prince Charmings of the bunch.

Bet you anything she's on some good anti-depressants, too. 

Fundies are very anti-psychiatrist, so I doubt she's on any happy pills. It sounds like she had her breakdown, and her husband told her to get her shit together (let's be blunt here). I've read the bit about him telling her to find a ministry before, but she never put it in its entire context. 

What's sad to me is that she presents as a bit, okay a lot, manic. THAT needs to be dealt with or she'll be dead before she's 35. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

Fundies are very anti-psychiatrist, so I doubt she's on any happy pills. It sounds like she had her breakdown, and her husband told her to get her shit together (let's be blunt here). I've read the bit about him telling her to find a ministry before, but she never put it in its entire context. 

What's sad to me is that she presents as a bit, okay a lot, manic. THAT needs to be dealt with or she'll be dead before she's 35. 

I guess Sierra is also expected to 'pray it away"?

[Sew Sumi]

Yup. I think that's the code for "finding your Joy." You find Jesus, and Jesus will direct you to happiness and out of the darkness. 

[RazzleberryPie]

Terminology is key here. Suggest depression, anxiety, personality disorders, etc., that's sin that needs prayed away.

Needing a pill for her nerves from her family doctor, still pretty common. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

4 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Terminology is key here. Suggest depression, anxiety, personality disorders, etc., that's sin that needs prayed away.

Needing a pill for her nerves from her family doctor, still pretty common. 

This is just so abusive. Leah Remini made an excellent point that the Church of Scientology should be slammed for "practicing medicine without a license" wrt to how they dealt with people who were suffering from mental illness. Would lie to see ATI and other similar churches  also get the same.

[Sew Sumi]

1 minute ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

This is just so abusive. Leah Remini made an excellent point that the Church of Scientology should be slammed for "practicing medicine without a license" wrt to how they dealt with people who were suffering from mental illness. Would lie to see ATI and other similar churches  also get the same.

Unfortunately, ATI doesn't have "churches" like even $cientology. Actually, all the homechurching is the polar opposite of what Miscavige wants from his parishoners. What I'm getting at is that both organizations turn a blind eye in sharply opposing ways. (That episode last week with the bipolar kid was heartbreatking.) 

[Arwen Evenstar]

7 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Unfortunately, ATI doesn't have "churches" like even $cientology. Actually, all the homechurching is the polar opposite of what Miscavige wants from his parishoners. What I'm getting at is that both organizations turn a blind eye in sharply opposing ways. (That episode last week with the bipolar kid was heartbreatking.) 

Yeah, ATI would hypothetically be harder to go after since they're a raggle taggle bunch of home churches as opposed to an organized group like COS.  Other than HQ, it would be hard to even estimate just how many ATI adherents there are and how many churches actually exist.

[Absolom]

ATI is a movement with followers in different denominations not just home churches. It makes no claim to be a religion or church on its own.  I don't think the government could do any more there than with any other family or individual. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by Absolom

[Arwen Evenstar]

15 minutes ago, Absolom said:

ATI is a movement with followers in different denominations not just home churches. It makes no claim to be a religion or church on its own.  I don't think the government could do any more there than with any other family or individual. 

You're totally right, but it's really problematic that too many churches and denominations out there have discouraged the seeking of medical help for mental health issues. I wish there was a way to respect individual belief as well as making sure parishioners can seek the care they need without judgment.

[queenanne]

Sierra can turn the occasional phrase, credit where credit is due.  At least she seems to have done some research into the topic, we don't know how much more. Perhaps she will reveal over the forthcoming year.  

I also note there's now suspicion that between "saved at age 7" and "decided I was a horrible backslidden sinner at age 19", lies plenty of undescribed country where her self-described drug abuse, could have actually been more than recreational dabbling.  Maybe she's anti- even Class A prescribed drugs at this point because of it.

[Arwen Evenstar]

46 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Sierra can turn the occasional phrase, credit where credit is due.  At least she seems to have done some research into the topic, we don't know how much more. Perhaps she will reveal over the forthcoming year.  

I also note there's now suspicion that between "saved at age 7" and "decided I was a horrible backslidden sinner at age 19", lies plenty of undescribed country where her self-described drug abuse, could have actually been more than recreational dabbling.  Maybe she's anti- even Class A prescribed drugs at this point because of it.

There's probably way more to the story. Everybody's got a story, and she might still be trying to come to terms with how or if she wants to tell her story. It looks like she's doing some inner work at least. Mental health issues carry with them their own stigma outside the Fundy world as well. Seeking help is still seen by some as weak and medication is viewed with judgment and skepticism, even among those who are worldly and educated.