Spoilers and Discussion

[fakeempress]

wrong thread.

Edited January 4, 2015 by fakeempress

[jaytee1812]

Not that the writers don't have a problem with how they view the white boy hero complex and how they write minorities on this show, I actually thought Mike Chang was a pretty decently written character. It did probably help that he was mostly a background character so less opportunity to screw that up.

To me, Mike Chang is the nicest of all the glee guys cause except for that one line he has to Tina during s3 and the retcon of their breakup, he was generally portrayed as a nice dude. I would also say he's not very stereotypical. He's the football player dancer that's joins the Joffrey.

To me that's the problem with Mike. I mean don't get me wrong I love him. But he's played so nice it borders on submissive. He's nice to his mom, he might grumble at Tina but you rarely see them argue. And Mike is prepared to give up his dream to go to medical school rather than stand up to his dad. He only studies dance when his Dad agrees, not because Mike stood up to him - Tina did. Add that to the straight student who's only ever seen dating an Asian girl and it adds up to one big stereotype.

[dizzyizzy01]

The Asian stereotype most typically would have Mike portrayed as a nerdy kinda asexual guy. But they had him on the football team and standing up to bullies on Kurt's behalf. I don't think he was always submissive. To me Mike was just a nice guy that wanted to make his parents happy, which can be an Asian stereotype but it's not unique to Asian kids (living up to parents expectations). They could have left off the medical school thing though. That was a bit much. I mean it wasn't perfect, but I still think he's better written than most of the other characters. Baby steps I guess.

[jaytee1812]

Is the wedding abomination one episode or two?

[caracas1914]

Is the wedding abomination one episode or two?

 

From all spoilers so far, it's one episode 6.08.    Episode 9 is a flashback to the "2009".  Naya and Heather seem to be completely through with filming by Episode 8 and there are no indications they filmed scenes for Episode 7, wthich has the Beistiie "Transitioning" SL.

 

[jaytee1812]

From all spoilers so far, it's one episode 6.08.    Episode 9 is a flashback to the "2009".  Naya and Heather seem to be completely through with filming by Episode 8 and there are no indications they filmed scenes for Episode 7, wthich has the Beistiie "Transitioning" SL.

I'm all for less Heather but how can her and Naya not be in the flashback episode. How can they even have a flashback episode without Cory.

I assume Diana's done, haven't seen Harry and Jenna say anything but why would they be back?

[jaytee1812]

The "flashback" episode seems like a joke, considering who should be in it and won't be. I don't understand why they would do a flashback episode when more than half of the characters will be absent from it. Makes no sense. It is pretty laughable at this point.

Are there any spoilers as to what it actually is?

[Myrna123]

I vote we find ourselves at East Lima Central Elementary School for an episode about what the New New New Direction kids were doing in, what would it be, fourth or fifth grade.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Myrna123

[jaytee1812]

I vote we find ourselves at East Lima Central Elementary School for an episode about what the New New New Direction kids were doing in, what would it be, fourth or fifth grade.

Don't give them ideas!

[caracas1914]

I'm afraid they are going to go back to the Karofsky bullying days ( Max adler is spoiled as appearing in that episode) and again try to reboot something about the underdog aspect of the choir.

It doesn't look good.

[tab19]

The only spoilers I recall, which were based on who was filming, were that the episode focused on Rachel, Mercedes and Kurt.  (Correct me if I'm wrong if anyone remembers differently)  I can't recall if Tina and Artie were there, but I think Puck and definitely Matt (!!) are in the episode.  Maybe Karofsky?   I remember speculation that they'd be back in their roles as bullies.  My assumption is that it's set pre-Glee club since otherwise the absence of Cory (and the cheerleaders and Mike) would be so obvious it would be distracting.  Of course, 'But it's Glee!' rules apply, so...

Edited January 4, 2015 by tab19

[Glorfindel]

The only spoilers I recall, which were based on who was filming, were that the episode focused on Rachel, Mercedes and Kurt.  (Correct me if I'm wrong if anyone remembers differently)  I can't recall if Tina and Artie were there, but I think Puck and definitely Matt (!!) are in the episode.  Maybe Karofsky?   I remember speculation that they'd be back in their roles as bullies.  My assumption is that it's set pre-Glee club since otherwise the absence of Cory (and the cheerleaders and Mike) would be so obvious it would be distracting.  Of course, 'But it's Glee!' rules apply, so...

Tina and Artie are in 6x09, FOXSpecialOps posted a picture of them in their season 1 clothes and hair, but deleted it later.

 

[jaytee1812]

Tina and Artie are in 6x09, FOXSpecialOps posted a picture of them in their season 1 clothes and hair, but deleted it later.

 

At least I'll see Tina in an outfit I don't hate. Because so far in every pic I've seen I want to burn everything she wears.

[Pink ranger]

Will is in the episode too as well as Terri, his ex wife so I would think that he has a story too. I do hope that if he takes over ND again by the finale that it has build up and he has has ownership over the story. It would be rubbish end for him if he only takes over because VA lose at sectionals and they fire him so he dosent go back because he "wants" to be there. I hope that 2009 somehow brings back happy memories for him of how happy ND made him when he took it over and that triggers some wanting for him in present day.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Pink ranger

[jaytee1812]

Will is in the episode too as well as Terri, his ex wife so I would think that he has a story too. I do hope that if he takes over ND again by the finale that it has build up and he has has ownership over the story. It would be rubbish end for him if he only takes over because VA lose at sectionals and they fire him so he dosent go back because he "wants" to be there. I hope that 2009 somehow brings back happy memories for him of how happy ND made him when he took it over and that triggers some wanting for him in present day.

Maybe it's remembering what drew them to Glee in the first place. I assume the stories will be based on Will and Rachel. That's not a dig (for a change) but their not gonna start on storylines for Tina, Artie or Mercedes now, and I doubt Kurt will get one after he sails of into the sunset with his blushing groom.

[Sara2009]

The only spoilers I recall, which were based on who was filming, were that the episode focused on Rachel, Mercedes and Kurt. (Correct me if I'm wrong if anyone remembers differently) I

can't recall if Tina and Artie were there, but I

think Puck and definitely Matt (!!) are in the

episode. Maybe Karofsky? I remember

speculation that they'd be back in their roles as

bullies. My assumption is that it's set pre-Glee

club since otherwise the absence of Cory (and

the cheerleaders and Mike) would be so obvious

it would be distracting. Of course, 'But it's Glee!'

rules apply, so...

Matt, Jane, Jayma, and Jessalyn also filmed for episode 9.

I get the impression that it revolves around the original 6 ND members and possibly Will.

[Hana Chan]

Matt, Jane, Jayma, and Jessalyn also filmed for episode 9.

I get the impression that it revolves around the original 6 ND members and possibly Will.

 

Any episode where I get a vacation from Darren's "acting" is a plus in my book.

[tom87]

I think this will be pre glee club too.  The only real spoiler  I think that came out of that filming is that Rachel visits Mercedes at church.  

 

Paps got Lea outside and church and Amber tweeted she was working with Lea and that her (Amber) mom was there. Her mom  has appeared as part of the church choir before.

[jaytee1812]

I was always under the impression that the original 5 didn't know each other before Glee. But my recollection of the pilot is hazy.

[Pink ranger]

Just a wild though. What if there is a midseason time jump and 2009 is set around the 2 year mark of Finns death.

That way the finale would be Nationals, a more natural end point than sectionals.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Pink ranger

[shantown]

 

 

Just a wild though. What if there is a midseason time jump and 2009 is set around the 2 year mark of Finns death.

That way the finale would be Nationals, a more natural end point than sectionals.

I hope the finale has nothing to do with any sort of competition for the New New Directions. I don't care who's coaching them, that shouldn't be the focus at the end.

[camussie]

Yeah I think 609 is focusing on the original 5 and puck will be in the "jock who is uneasy with the bullying" role. That will be a blatant rewrite but with Finn gone I can see them doing that. It makes no sense that neither Quinn nor santana are in the episode since they were Rachel's primary bullies.

As for the rachel/Mercedes church scene I would bet that is in present time and be about sam. It could even be used to set up the flashback i.e. remember when our only concern was actually having a glee club.

Edited January 5, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

Yeah I think 609 is focusing on the original 5 and puck will be in the "jock who is uneasy with the bullying" role. That will be a blatant rewrite but with Finn gone I can see them doing that. It makes no sense that neither Quinn nor santana are in the episode since they were Rachel's primary bullies.

Matt Rutherford is back, so he's one of the bullies, and Mike's not there... Sometimes I would like to believe glee isn't racist (or misogynist) but then they do stuff like this.

[camussie]

Taking my response to the all episodes thread.

[Ann Mack]

Yeah I think 609 is focusing on the original 5 and puck will be in the "jock who is uneasy with the bullying" role. That will be a blatant rewrite but with Finn gone I can see them doing that. It makes no sense that neither Quinn nor santana are in the episode since they were Rachel's primary bullies.

As for the rachel/Mercedes church scene I would bet that is in present time and be about sam. It could even be used to set up the flashback i.e. remember when our only concern was actually having a glee club.

 

This! Why do I feel that whatever scene Mercedes and Rachel share in episode 9 will be the show having Mercedes be okay and understanding about how and why Rachel and Sam should be together. Haven't heard much from Amber if she is filming any more she just said she was enjoying her vacation before the Christmas holiday. I don't think the writers have it in them to let Rachel be selfless and admit that maybe Sam does still love Mercedes (since she said they were "soulmates" and all and knew he was still in love with Mercedes). The writers seem determined at this time to ensure that Rachel doesn't end up alone, although I don't understand why she "still" would want to be with the guy of her friend who she knew was still in love with said friend before she started to pursue him. Supposedly there is yet another Sam and Rachel duet in episode 10 (about love of all damn things) but I guess those watching will see.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Ann Mack

[SevenStars]

I think the reviewer mentions Samchel moments becasue they were asked specifically about them.  

 

If  there is a general audience left not sure they would think those moments in the song are significant an in any way

 

I agree, because most of the moments people are talking about are moments that characters like Mercedes/Artie have had since S1, whenever they sing in a group or together. But most people know the writers won't put them together. Samchel moments are seen as being more because they are suppose to be dating in later episodes. I bet if that wasn't happening, people wouldn't be making a big deal out of those "moments.

[shantown]

I agree, because most of the moments people are talking about are moments that characters like Mercedes/Artie have had since S1, whenever they sing in a group or together. But most people know the writers won't put them together. Samchel moments are seen as being more because they are suppose to be dating in later episodes. I bet if that wasn't happening, people wouldn't be making a big deal out of those "moments.

I read it this the opposite of what I think you're intending (correct me if I misunderstand!) - Mercedes and Artie have been friends since S1. Sam and Rachel have known each since S2 and never had background moments with each other. It's only happening now that they need to have some sort of interaction to show how "in love" they are.

[tom87]

I read it this the opposite of what I think you're intending (correct me if I misunderstand!) - Mercedes and Artie have been friends since S1. Sam and Rachel have known each since S2 and never had background moments with each other. It's only happening now that they need to have some sort of interaction to show how "in love" they are.

While yes they may be laying the ground work and since we know the rumors we see that but those who do not know the rumors probably would not see that from the performance of Take on me.

 

There was nothing in that performance that was as obvious as the glances in Moving out  in season 5.

[SevenStars]

I read it this the opposite of what I think you're intending (correct me if I misunderstand!) - Mercedes and Artie have been friends since S1. Sam and Rachel have known each since S2 and never had background moments with each other. It's only happening now that they need to have some sort of interaction to show how "in love" they are.

Yes, they are laying the ground work but we only see that because we know what is coming. If we didn't know what was coming, we wouldn't think anything of those moments, because most of the characters have had these moments during group performances.

 

So we, who knows what is coming will see it as the writers laying the ground work for Samchel but the general audience won't. 

[caracas1914]

While yes they may be laying the ground work and since we know the rumors we see that but those who do not know the rumors probably would not see that from the performance of Take on me.

 

Actually, in my case,  I thought 'why are  Sam and Rachel  doing the lovers touching the screen with each other in "Take On Me" just like the original video?', and then I remembered and l I realized, "duh, they are telegraphing Samchel". 

[Ann Mack]

Actually, in my case,  I thought 'why are  Sam and Rachel  doing the lovers touching the screen with each other in "Take On Me" just like the original video?', and then I remembered and l I realized, "duh, they are telegraphing Samchel". 

 

Honestly out of some of the shows most dumbest, out of the blue, are you fucking kidding me story lines Glee has done this one really takes the "These Are The Worst Writers Ever" award. If the season 5 (Sam and Mercedes) build up wasn't just done, and the whole supposed leaked spoiler of episode 4 were Sam says he is "still in love with Mercedes" and everyone who watched the last season suddenly got amnesia then okay go for it. But to do this is just lazy sloppy writing with total disregard for several fan-bases. But hey its the final season and apparently the show writers, EPs, and even the network no longer gives a damn. Very curious as to what fans Ryan and company listened to to come up with this crap!

[Glorfindel]

I was always under the impression that the original 5 didn't know each other before Glee. But my recollection of the pilot is hazy.

They were all together in the 'stool choir' of Sandy Ryerson, if you meant they never met before Will took over the glee club and had the auditions we saw in the pilot.

And it would be logical if Rachel, Kurt and Mercedes had classes together as sophomores, and Tina and Artie together too.

 

With Kurt getting a lot of focus in 6x08 (well, at least he'll get married, don't know about the individual focus he might get) I think that the flashback will concentrate on Rachel and Will, each having their own storyline: Rachel with the other original glee kids getting bullied, and Will with Terri, Emma and Sue.

 

It would be great though if every member of the original 5, including Tina and Artie, got their own little segment in the episode. But I won't hold my breath for that.

[Ann Mack]

My biggest fear is that Samchel somehow becomes endgame. And the endgame being that Rachel stays in Lima as she may have done with Finn-which I have always thought was an insulting end to both characters, yes in season 3's finale, Finn broke both their hearts by sending her on a train to NY and setting her free, but at the end of it, Rachel's going to come back and forget all about it, whatever- or that Sam will follow Rachel back to NY. I will never forgive the show for that. One, because Sam has said "new york isn't for him" and two, why would Sam be so in love with Rachel to follow her to NY and yet Finn wasn't allowed to? WTF? I just have a scary feeling that Samchel will be endgame and I don't know if I can handle that. 

 

There is really NO good way for this to end. The show is really showing that it has total disregard for Rachel, Sam, Finn, and Mercedes fans by doing this nonsense. One blogger even wrote they felt sorry for Chord. The show has never IMO ever given him a storyline other than being homeless that addressed his needs. The only relationship he had were his girlfriend was supportive of him was with Mercedes (others may argue differently). I'm trying to get over it but it is frustrating to see the potential they had for a couple (Sam and Mercedes) that made sense being squandered away in these final episodes. Granted they may be doing this because yes they both are in Ohio but it is so OOC that Sam would suddenly be wanting Rachel (no interactions really in 5 season except for 1 episode) or that Rachel would want the man that from the beginning tells her he is in love with someone else. Lazy writing. Some will cheer if this happens, others will look on in disbelief, most will probably just go WTF (me included) if they do end the series with these 2 staying together. I won't call them endgame because Sam's words will always be in my head "no matter whoever I'm with or whatever I'm doing, I'd rather be doing it with you." -his words to Mercedes. Which again to me makes the thought of them together even more unsettling and disturbing to me!

[caracas1914]

These spoilers indicate that 13 episodes is more than enough to wrap up (or burn down) Glee.  I shudder to think what these Showrunners/writers would have done with a full 22 epsiode season for Ryan Murphy's flights of fancy taking over again with guest stars, love triangles, etc.   Nobody can pretend that Glee is ending prematurely.  

[jaytee1812]

I've just watched the final seasons of White Collar and The Newsroom and while I'd never compare this shitshow to Sorkin they could've learnt something. Both shows were tight, they had a point, you could see where it was going from episode 1 there was a consistent theme. There were new characters - where they were necessary but it was a nice goodbye to the characters on each show. This doesn't sound anything like that. 

[caracas1914]

True Blood, White Collar, The Newsroom, Sons of Anarchy.   Still to come,  Madmen,  Parenthood, Parks and Recreation and  2 1/2 Men.  While the quality of all these ended or ending shows  varied from still very good to mediocre, Glee stands almost alone in being almost an after thought.   It's like there is zero buzz/hype left for Glee, which is sad considering that arguably it had the most combined commercial/critical success of all these TV shows coming to an end.  It plummeted both critically and commercially so that this last season is media nigh  invisible.

 

Hell , even the fan base  of admittedly chronically struggling shows (ratings wise)  like Parenthood and Parks and Recreation have stayed faithful  and those shows can finish with a degree of dignity and critical respectability.  2 1/2 Men at least retains it's ratings, and Mad Men will probably retain its iconic status.

Edited January 5, 2015 by caracas1914

[Advance35]

One, because Sam has said "new york isn't for him" and two, why would Sam be so in love with Rachel to follow her to NY and yet Finn wasn't allowed to? WTF? I just have a scary feeling that Samchel will be endgame and I don't know if I can handle that.

 

Out of everything Glee has fed me over the past 5 seasons, I don't think this would be in the top 10 of outraegous.   I'm not sure if they will be endgame or not yet but they are definitely going to flirt with it until the very end.   People fall in and out of love all the time.  It happens.   Finn told Rachel he didn't "feel sparks" with her but he did with Quinn, in addition to Quinn being the most beautfiul girl he ever saw.  After that they still expected fans to buy into Finn/Rachel (not that the couple was a great bargain before).  

 

I also have to admit I may be slightly motivated by misery loving company, the writers denied me Puck/Rachel, Jesse/Rachel, Brody/Rachel (I really would have taken this couple, 2nd job and all) so it kind of warms my cold heart to see them kill, bury and salt the earth of quite a few other couples with retconed or bad writing.  And again it's not a total loss in my eyes because of the Abs.

[caracas1914]

Finn told Rachel he didn't "feel sparks" with her but he did with Quinn, in addition to Quinn being the most beautfiul girl he ever saw.  After that they still expected fans to buy into Finn/Rachel (not that the couple was a great bargain before).

 

That's a good point.  Finchell was so badly written at times it was jaw dropping.

 

And again it's not a total loss in my eyes because of the Abs.

 

On a shallow note, than Mike Chang would have made more sense.  ON a storyline note, Mike could have improved her dancing skills while they both killed Broadway and they could have had beautiful vaguely (or not so vague)  Eurasian babies together. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by caracas1914

[camussie]

All couples are so badly written on this show at times it is job dropping.  If sam/rachel dated for any length of time under RM's pen they too would be horribly written.  They may only escape that because they will only have a few episodes before the show ends.  

[caracas1914]

I agree with  this.  At the same time having little time to develop them together as a couple, ( Sam kisses Rachel  because he's fucking hypnotized...) makes whatever they do with Samchel ultimately have no stick.

[jaytee1812]

On a shallow note, than Mike Chang would have made more sense.  ON a storyline note, Mike could have improved her dancing skills while they both killed Broadway and they could have had beautiful vaguely (or not so vague)  Eurasian babies together. 

 

I'm surprised they didn't do this just to shit on Tina one last time. I'm also not surprised because there's no way the writers would have Rachel Berry of all people date someone who didn't meet their white boy hero standards.

I agree with  this.  At the same time having little time to develop them together as a couple, ( Sam kisses Rachel  because he's fucking hypnotized...) makes whatever they do with Samchel ultimately have no stick.

 

I loathe Sam as a character but I hate the hypnosis storyline so much for him. I know it's only a kiss but its still without his consent. It's awful. 

[camussie]

I agree with  this.  At the same time having little time to develop them together as a couple, ( Sam kisses Rachel  because he's fucking hypnotized...) makes whatever they do with Samchel ultimately have no stick.

 

 

That and the to me that they have put in big old lights that Sam is Finn 2.0 (to them not to me but that is another discussion).  To me that makes it more likely Rachel is dating Sam in big part because he reminds her of Finn not because she wants Sam for Sam.  That is just one reason as both a Finn and Rachel fan I wanted whoever she moved on with to be different than Finn versus a character they have not been shy about pushing as Finn 2.0.

 

The Finn fan in me feels like they are saying one white boy jock is the same as another.  Screw that he was the lead male on this show when it became part of the cultural zeitgeist.  He is easily replaceable.  Just throw in some out of the blue scenes with Finn's  mentor using his legacy to anvil home that Sam is the new Finn and throw Rachel at Sam and voila Finn is gone and forgotten because we have Sam now.  I feel like, like Finn or hate Finn, it is hard to deny that he was one of the reasons for the show's early success and because of that I resent RM and team trying to tell me that we can just slot some other character in his place.  

 

The Rachel fan in me has been saying for over a year that she needs to move forward.  I just really don't see how dating someone the show is saying is Finn 2.0 is her really moving forward.  It seems more like she is trying to replace Finn rather than finding a new path in love.  

Edited January 5, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

That and the to me that they have put in big old lights that Sam is Finn 2.0 (to them not to me but that is another discussion).  To me that makes it more likely Rachel is dating Sam in big part because he reminds her of Finn not because she wants Sam for Sam.  That is just one reason as both a Finn and Rachel fan I wanted whoever she moved on with to be different than Finn versus a character they have not been shy about pushing as Finn 2.0.

 

The Finn fan in me feels like they are saying one white boy jock is the same as another.  Screw that he was the lead male on this show when it became part of the cultural zeitgeist.  He is easily replaceable.  Just throw in some out of the blue scenes with Finn's  mentor using his legacy to anvil home that Sam is the new Finn and throw Rachel at Sam and voila Finn is gone and forgotten because we have Sam now.  I feel like, like Finn or hate Finn, it is hard to deny that he was one of the reasons for the show's early success and because of that I resent RM and team trying to tell me that we can just slot some other character in his place.  

 

The Rachel fan in me has been saying for over a year that she needs to move forward.  I just really don't see how dating someone the show is saying is Finn 2.0 is her really moving forward.  It seems more like she is trying to replace Finn rather than finding a new path in love.  

 

Answered in the episode thread.

[Sara2009]

If we're only going by abs, even Will would've been an option. Did y'all see Matt in " South Pacific?" He 's definitely in shape.

Granted that coupling would be totally gross for various reasons, but I wanted to add to the abs topic. Will/Rachel had a small following as a crackship back in season 1, though.

[jaytee1812]

If we're only going by abs, even Will would've been an option. Did y'all see Matt in " South Pacific?" He 's definitely in shape.

Granted that coupling would be totally gross for various reasons, but I wanted to add to the abs topic. Will/Rachel had a small following as a crackship back in season 1, though.

Dancers always are! :) 

 

Honestly if they's done a bigger time jump and Rachel had been 25/26 I totally would buy a Will/Rachel relationship. I'm not saying it would be healthy or right but I could totally buy it happening. 

[jaytee1812]

Tina's head injury dream was better than these spoilers.

[Sara2009]

Dancers always are! :)

Honestly if they's done a bigger time jump and Rachel had been 25/26 I totally would buy a

Will/Rachel relationship. I'm not saying it would

be healthy or right but I could totally buy it

happening.

Maybe if Will wasn't happily(as far as we know) married with a baby.

Honestly though, I don't see Will having a relationship with a former student, but that's just me.

[jaytee1812]

Maybe if Will wasn't happily(as far as we know) married with a baby.

Honestly though, I don't see Will having a relationship with a former student, but that's just me.

 

Now, no. But five, maybe ten years after a student has graduated, and his marriage is a little stale. Could totally see it happening. But like I say, not as a good thing!

[Sara2009]

Well, that's not going to be my headcanon. Rachel is WAAY too intense for him. LOL

That's not a slam on her. I just don't think their personalities would mesh well at all. Not to mention " Ballad" showed me that Will doesn't think of his students that way. I know he's overly involved in their lives, but dating one of them is a whole other thing. Plus, I like Will with Emma, so I choose to believe that their marriage stays good. JMO of course.

I can't believe all of this sprang from a few comments about abs. Ha ha

[jaytee1812]

There's a reason I made a head canon thread!