Spoilers and Discussion

[tom87]

Likewise Anders and Darren both are getting hate tweets (presumably from Lea/Rachel fans) because Rachel's final solo may be a Darren penned song.  Every fandom has its crazies

 

Really I looked  at his feed and didn't see anything to Darren except complaints Lea singing it and not him. . In comment sections of article  I have seen stuff but not in his tweeter feed. ( not sayng there isn't I jsut didn't see any going back 2 hours while i saw over a dozen examples in a quick search of  Lea's feed.)

Edited February 27, 2015 by tom87

[phoenixrising]

See, Glee never really made up its mind if it was an ensemble show or if Rachel was the lead. On Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy was consistently the center of the show. During the few times Buffy wasn't in an episode, it was still very much about her, whereas the few episodes that Rachel was missing in action, it was to give focus to people who had no relationship with Rachel, or it had nothing to do with her, or even people she was close to. That's part of the reason the season 4/5 split was so stupid. During that time, they essentially sidelined their lead in favor of the ensemble back in McKinley.

Again, I understand that she's a big part of the show, and the closest thing to a lead on Glee. I think if everyone else had a better closing arch, this wouldn't bug me so much.

[camussie]

While I agree that Rachel didn't get as much focus in S4 because of the split I still think it was obvious she was the lead of the NY narrative.  Kurt and Santana were there supporting her story.  To me the split narrative didn't make Glee an ensemble show but rather two shows in one with two different leads - Rachel in NY and Blaine and to a lesser degree Sam in Lima.  

[caracas1914]

For that reason I don't mind that the finale is focused on Rachel and to a lesser degree Will as I like the full circle-ness of it all.  Just like what I enjoyed about the ER finale is that there was some focus on Carter, ER's original lead, before it  successfully transitioned into an ensemble.  What I do mind is the horrible writing up until this point.  They could have easily used time in each of the last 4-5 episodes to close out some of the supporting players stories in a satisfactory way and then still had the focus on Rachel & to a lesser degree Will and perhaps Kurt in the finale.

 

 

The problem isn't Rachel or Will focus but that it will be a badly written SL.

 

Lea/Rachel was always one of the leads, but there was (at least in Season 1 and parts of 2) some interesting SL's with other characters intersecting.  That has completely dried  up now, other than Rachel,  NONE of the other characters really have any SL's  at all.  That is what is most jarring about this last season, even for Glee's high bar.   Compare the pilot to now, yes, it was Will/Rachel centered (actually more Will) but supporting characters were weaved in to complement the story.

Edited February 27, 2015 by caracas1914

[Hana Chan]

I honestly don't care if Rachel gets the lion's share of the focus and songs. What I would like is for some of the other characters, for a novel change, to actually have storylines that don't totally end up being to support Rachel in whatever endeavor she has going on at a given moment. I wouldn't care so much that most of the show focuses on Rachel if what little focus they give to characters like Kurt actually gets to be about Kurt and not being Rachel's prop.

[tom87]

Sorry but Kurt really hasn't propped up Rachel this season.    I am actually surprised how little Rachel and Kurt have actually interacted this season.

[Ceeg]

While I agree that Rachel didn't get as much focus in S4 because of the split I still think it was obvious she was the lead of the NY narrative.  Kurt and Santana were there supporting her story.  To me the split narrative didn't make Glee an ensemble show but rather two shows in one with two different leads - Rachel in NY and Blaine and to a lesser degree Sam in Lima.  

 

Well, it's easy to be a lead when you're literally one of only two contracted characters. Santana didn't come to New York until the last second of 4.13.

[caracas1914]

What is annoying about this (and this comes from a Rachel/Lea stan) is that the pilot and subsequent first season had a lot of  tension in the rest of the characters resenting  Rachel assuming they were nothing more than  her props.

 

Somehow that premise has been turned around so that she was right, they exist only to prop her SL and interests.  Which contradicts the "journey" that Glee initially put the character Rachel on.  So all the Rachel "lessons" along the way....While I resented characters taking turns telling Rachel she was selfish, in the end it will be circuitous path just to nowhere..

 

Sorry but Kurt really hasn't propped up Rachel this season.    I am actually surprised how little Rachel and Kurt have actually interacted this season.

 

 

Kurt as "co director" his only non Klaine SL,  is all about propping Rachel in her choir adventures.

Edited February 27, 2015 by caracas1914

[fakeempress]

Kurt as "co director" his only non Klaine SL,  is all about propping Rachel in her choir adventures.

To the extent that he had to be dissed as unable to handle it by himself when Rachel's not around.

[phoenixrising]

 

Kurt as "co director" his only non Klaine SL,  is all about propping Rachel in her choir adventures.

That's not a storyline. That's an excuse to have Kurt in Lima so Klaine can happen.

[tom87]

Kurt as "co director" his only non Klaine SL,  is all about propping Rachel in her choir adventures.

A bit of a stretch since that storyline has had very little imo..   Kurt and his old man dates have had as much time if not more. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by tom87

[phoenixrising]

While I agree that Rachel didn't get as much focus in S4 because of the split I still think it was obvious she was the lead of the NY narrative.  Kurt and Santana were there supporting her story.  To me the split narrative didn't make Glee an ensemble show but rather two shows in one with two different leads - Rachel in NY and Blaine and to a lesser degree Sam in Lima.

I never really saw Blaine as a lead in Lima, minus the amount of singing time he had.

And yes, Rachel was the NYC lead, but most episodes had maybe 10-15 minutes of NYC. She still got sidelined.

[ComfySweater]

A bit of a stretch since that storyline has had very little imo..   Kurt and his old man dates have had as much time if not more. 

It's an excuse they didn't bother to flesh out at all. Is somebody mad at Chris that all he has is chasing after Blaine and being Rachel's handbag in absentia? I don't usually go full tilt conspiracy theory, but it feels like he's getting the opposite of everything he wanted for Kurt.

[Glorfindel]

And isn't that the best testament to how utterly shitty this final season has become. That no fandom is going to leave happy when all is said and done. Even if the characters end up where they want them, it's going to be done in such an awful way that no one is going to be satisfied.

One can almost admire how RIB can piss off most fans and destroy characters by actually giving them something they want, by giving it in a way their fans would never want it.

[caracas1914]

Brittana fans are somewhat happy but really that's because their expectations were already dashed to sub zero depths before the season started.

The fact that there was a real possibility that Naya wouldn't ever make another appearance on the show from what happened at the end of Season 5.

From that depth it's all gravy.

Edited February 27, 2015 by caracas1914

[tom87]

If Jane has anymore interviews she is going to spoil the whole last episode.

 

As for what last song fans can expect to hear Lynch sing before the credits roll one last time? An ABBA song with Morrison. She admitted: "That was brutal."

Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/jane-lynch-talks-glees-series-finale-singing-my-last-song-was-brutal-2015272#ixzz3Szcm1cyx
 

[caracas1914]

If Jane sings in the last episode that means Matt sings twice, ( Duet and solo) Mercedes a solo? , Rachel at least one spoiled solo, a future ND song, so that leads me to believe everyone else just joins in in that one big group number.

[phoenixrising]

Brittana fans are somewhat happy but really that's because their expectations were already dashed to sub zero depths before the season started.

The fact that there was a real possibility that Naya wouldn't ever make another appearance on the show from what happened at the end of Season 5.

From that depth it's all gravy.

 

The only thing I think most Brittana fans hated was the double wedding aspect of the wedding. And I'm a Santana fan, but the Kurt rant wasn't cool. Otherwise? I'm actually surprisingly happen with what they did with them, especially bringing Abuela back. For whatever reason, I think they actually did listen to Brittana fans, although I would've liked more for Santana's career/future aside from a throw away line about college in New York. But I also do think I'm being less picky because, yes, thank heavens she is back. 

If Jane has anymore interviews she is going to spoil the whole last episode.

 

As for what last song fans can expect to hear Lynch sing before the credits roll one last time? An ABBA song with Morrison. She admitted: "That was brutal."

Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/jane-lynch-talks-glees-series-finale-singing-my-last-song-was-brutal-2015272#ixzz3Szcm1cyx

 

 

The more I know, the better prepared I'll be for the train wreck. 

 

Also. . .I don't really need more Jane Lynch singing. We could've had literally anyone else (aside from Vocal Adrenaline anyway) and I would've been happier.  

[Sara2009]

I'm glad that Matt is going to sing a lot , though. Ordinarily it would be overkill, but since he's been so underused this season in general, I'm happy about it.

[Ann Mack]

The music this final season is really questionable IMO

 

Glee: The Music, We Built This Glee Club Episode 11

 

Listen To Your Heart (Glee Cast Version)
We Built This City (Glee Cast Version)
Mickey (Glee Cast Version)
Take Me To Church (Glee Cast Version)
Chandelier (Glee Cast Version)
Come Sail Away (Glee Cast Version)

 

Also more from Jane Lynch about the final episode: "It’s been really sad, [Glee is] all over now. I wasn’t expecting it to be what it was, it felt very right that it was over and we really celebrated it. We celebrated every cast member one at a time."

Edited February 28, 2015 by Ann Mack

[Bill1978]

More Roxette! Awesome. And two of my most cherished cheesy 80s songs! I think I may enjoy the music of We Built This Glee Club.

[mercfan3]

Can I ask what's the "reason"?

 

My guess is there are two groups at play here. 

 

1. There was a rumor that Chris and Lea were trying to get Darren kicked off the show. That's ridiculous. But it's out there. 

2. (Reason why it's ridiculous) Other than Chord, Lea is probably Darren's best friend on the show. So, it's probably the same fans that hate on Darren's girlfriend that hate on Lea. 

[caracas1914]

The irony is that none of the character stans are really being serviced this year. Certainly Blaine hasn't gotten the individual development or even pairing arcs ( BLAM!) (Blainchel) a lot of his fans were hoping for when the whole Deleastreet was hinted at.

Still puzzled how song wise he was thrown over for Max George among others.

[fakeempress]

My guess is there are two groups at play here. 

 

1. There was a rumor that Chris and Lea were trying to get Darren kicked off the show. That's ridiculous. But it's out there. 

2. (Reason why it's ridiculous) Other than Chord, Lea is probably Darren's best friend on the show. So, it's probably the same fans that hate on Darren's girlfriend that hate on Lea. 

I remember this, the blind gossip site. I wouldn't even call it rumour, they were getting submissions from readers so no doubt it was some of the groups you mention that came up with that and BG jumped on it. It was so ridiculous, they couldn't make up their minds if Chris wanted Darren fired or was super secretly dating him lol.

Edited February 28, 2015 by fakeempress

[tom87]

Can I ask what's the "reason"?

There doesn't have to be a reason except what they make up in their heads like  they feel Darren should be the one and only  star and as long as Lea is there she will  get more  attention.

[camussie]

I'm glad that Matt is going to sing a lot , though. Ordinarily it would be overkill, but since he's been so underused this season in general, I'm happy about it.

 

 

I don't think Matt singing a solo and a duet in the finale is overkill. I only wish the duet was with Lea instead of Jane.  

 

On another note, from the preview, I am dreading next week's episode even as I am glad it looks to be Will heavy.  I wanted to see more Will this season but I am not looking forward to Will vs. Sue round 24987 and that is because of Sue.  She is beyond played out as a character.  

Edited February 28, 2015 by camussie

[Mnem]

I don't think Matt singing a solo and a duet in the finale is overkill. i just wish the duet was with Lea instead of Jane.

Sigh. It just seems like such a no-brainer. You have two Broadway vet leads. Have them sing one last song together for fuck's sake! They could have easily framed it around the two of them teaching the kids how to knock a duet out of the park (while avoiding any romantic connotations). It would have been a nice bookend to Ballad. Plus the Matt/Lea weirdness would be fun for the shits and giggles.

I'm totally not getting my St.Berry. Because that would be too much like right.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Mnem

[camussie]

Seems to me that there is a strong possibility that Jesse/rachel end up together.  After all he is at the Tony's with her and she thanks him in the speech.  There is also that Lea and Jonathan were wearing wedding rings in some of the BTS photos taken as that final group number was being shot.  

[Mnem]

Seems to me that there is a strong possibility that Jesse/rachel end up together.  After all he is at the Tony's with her and she thanks him in the speech.  There is also that Lea and Jonathan were wearing wedding rings in some of the BTS photos taken as that final group number was being shot.

Hee. Yeah, I meant to whinge that I'm totally not getting my St.Berry duet. Posting from my phone and my finger slipped before I got that in. LOL.

[tom87]

Hee. Yeah, I meant to whinge that I'm totally not getting my St.Berry duet. Posting from my phone and my finger slipped before I got that in. LOL.

I am not giving up yet Jon was in the recording studio.  

[Florinaldo]

Lea already getting hate tweets from Darren fans, nice.

It's part of the usual mechanics in any fandom, where the crazier factions are the loudest. Crazy Kurt fans have been spouting hate at Blaine for years because he is allegedly being propped up at the expense of Kurt, devoted Rachel fans pour venom on Kurt or Blaine when she is not treated as the one and only star of the show, extreme Mercedes fans rage about Sam being possibly paired with Rachel, dedicated Brittany-Santana fans wail about their unfair treatment as compared with other couples, etc. The most absurd aspect is that the criticism is often directed very personally at the actors or at the crew, who have nothing to do with how the show is written.

 

I think DC himself was reluctant to sing his own composition in the episode. When asked back in 2012 how he would react if the show asked him to write a song, he said “Oh, I’d probably write a song for Glee, and I wouldn’t like to write for my character. I’d like to write it for another character … Maybe a new character”.

I have no problem with the show featuring an original song in its last episode, especially if that song is supposed to be from the new musical Rachel auditioned for or from another new one. It would then be quite logical to use a newly composed number. Plus the arts are a living entity that keeps changing, expanding and adding on, instead of constantly recycling only existing répertoire.

Having an original song in the finale would be an affirmation of that fact and be quite in line with the season's proposed theme which was announced as being about the importance of the arts, in school and elsewhere.

Of course, the show's past original compositions were not in general very convincing ; but it may be a question of arrangements or performance, as "Loser Like Me" for example sounded much better in the quartet version than in the full ND one. They tapped someone who has an established track record for this new Rachel solo and it appears that the results were deemed satisfactory (I expect they would enforce strict standards because this is the final episode).

There is no guarantee that it will be a memorable number; most new artistic creations fall by the wayside and are eventually forgotten, but artists still keep at it. If you look at the catalogue of composers in any genre, from Broadway to classical and including jazz or pop, 90 to 95 % of what they produced is now covered by a forgiving blanket of forgetfulness. Tons of works by Beethoven, Kern, Ellington and countless others are now performed only as curiosities, to fill out a program or for the sake of a completist's obsession. The same holds true in film, painting, books, plays, etc.

 

I like some of Darren's original music, but if I'm meant to believe he can write a song that would be part of a hit Broadway show, they are beyond delusional.

I think his track record shows that he has demonstrated the skills necessary to make the attempt without appearing delusional; besides, "Broadway show" covers a very wide range of genres and styles and not every number in a production is a hit (see some of the selections made for the Tonys broadcast). As mentioned just above, that is no guarantee of success.The group number DC composed for one of the upcoming episodes sounds perfectly satisfactory from the excerpt I have heard, fitting nicely in the tradition of other anthemic songs used on the show and quite appropriate as an inspirational number.

 

I see the merry go round of "my fave is getting hate, no it's my fave..." continues. Good times.

It's fandom's realisation of that thermodynamic impossibility: perpetual motion.

[LeeLeePanda]

The music this final season is really questionable IMO

 

Glee: The Music, We Built This Glee Club Episode 11

 

Listen To Your Heart (Glee Cast Version)

We Built This City (Glee Cast Version)

Mickey (Glee Cast Version)

Take Me To Church (Glee Cast Version)

Chandelier (Glee Cast Version)

Come Sail Away (Glee Cast Version)

 

Also more from Jane Lynch about the final episode: "It’s been really sad, [Glee is] all over now. I wasn’t expecting it to be what it was, it felt very right that it was over and we really celebrated it. We celebrated every cast member one at a time."

I'm actually pleasently surprised to see that they're covering Take Me to Church and Chandelier. I'd love to see Heather dance to Chandelier, though I highly doubt it will happen.

[fakeempress]

 

Crazy Kurt fans have been spouting hate at Blaine for years because he is allegedly being propped up at the expense of Kurt, devoted Rachel fans pour venom on Kurt or Blaine when she is not treated as the one and only star of the show, extreme Mercedes fans rage about Sam being possibly paired with Rachel, dedicated Brittany-Santana fans wail about their unfair treatment as compared with other couples, etc. The most absurd aspect is that the criticism is often directed very personally at the actors or at the crew, who have nothing to do with how the show is written.

Interesting elective omissions in this long list, not to note that Blaine fans have been pouring venom on Kurt, and Sam/Rachel stans on Mercedes enough to fill a tanker fleet. I guess they aren't worth mentioning unless as etc. 

 

 

I think his track record shows that he has demonstrated the skills necessary to make the attempt without appearing delusional; besides, "Broadway show" covers a very wide range of genres and styles and not every number in a production is a hit (see some of the selections made for the Tonys broadcast)

He has no track record of demonstrating skills in writing for a Broadway-level show. Thus, no song of his has come close to being on a Broadway show of any genre or style. 

Edited February 28, 2015 by fakeempress

[mercfan3]

He hasn't written for Broadway, but he has written pretty much three entire musicals worth of songs, that are immensely popular. Personally, I think Darren is very influenced by Broadway and disney and his songwriting reflects that. It's much easier to see him writing a hit broadway song than it is to see him, say..writing Mercedes's hit single. (And although The Harry Potter Musicals aren't broadway level shows..they are better than anything the Glee writers could come up with...)

 

In fact, if DC ends up having a career in songwriting, it won't surprise me if it's for disney movies. 

 

I'm concerned about Take Me To Church...the only character that could do that well is Santana, IMO. And we know it won't be her. I don't want anyone else touching it. Rachel or Kurt could at least do Chandelier. 

 

I think every character and actor has crazy fans. And that's not just Glee. And the more popular a character/actor is..the more people will notice the crazies (because there will be more of them.) 

Edited February 28, 2015 by mercfan3

[snarkastic]

The music this final season is really questionable IMO

 

Glee: The Music, We Built This Glee Club Episode 11

 

Listen To Your Heart (Glee Cast Version)

We Built This City (Glee Cast Version)

Mickey (Glee Cast Version)

Take Me To Church (Glee Cast Version)

Chandelier (Glee Cast Version)

Come Sail Away (Glee Cast Version)

 

Also more from Jane Lynch about the final episode: "It’s been really sad, [Glee is] all over now. I wasn’t expecting it to be what it was, it felt very right that it was over and we really celebrated it. We celebrated every cast member one at a time."

 

Man, I've wanted 'We Built This City' since season 2, but now it's THIS season where every song is horrible.

 

Who wants to take bets on who will be wearing the leotard and blonde wig mini!Sia costume for 'Chandelier'?

[tom87]

All those songs are for competition songs so 2 go to VA (we built this city and Mickey)  and last 3 to NDs. 

 

Listen to your heart right now is the only one with an unknown singer(s).

Edited February 28, 2015 by tom87

[fakeempress]

Even though I like some of the songs and have seen some of the HP musicals, Darren's Starkid cred is nowhere near Broadway level. From the B'way shows I've seen, I'd say the closest type to what he can aspire to as songwriter is Once - but he's not there yet.

 

I'm concerned about Take Me To Church...the only character that could do that well is Santana, IMO. And we know it won't be her. I don't want anyone else touching it. Rachel or Kurt could at least do Chandelier.

Can you remind me who will be singing Take Me To Church?

[Bill1978]

If that's how the songs are distributed in competition I would be cheering for a VA win.

[caracas1914]

For gods sake Starkids Harry Potter was not fucking Broadway.

It was college kids theatre that went viral over a FREE YouTube slot.

It was fun , but it wasn't professional theatre at all.

Fuck.

I feel better now.

Edited February 28, 2015 by caracas1914

[SadieT]

 

Can you remind me who will be singing Take Me To Church?

 

Roderick is, at least in part. There's clips of both Take Me To Church and Chandelier somewhere on Tumblr. I think the girls are singing Chandelier but I have to double check. 

[fakeempress]

Cheers. Roderick, huh? Not feeling it. 

[jaytee1812]

How the fuck is the guy who plays Roderick getting all these solos? He's beyond awful!

Then again over promoting mediocre white boys is this shows thing.

[SadieT]

Cheers. Roderick, huh? Not feeling it. 

 

Here's the short video clips someone took from the sectionals performances if you're interested. 

 

Take Me To Church

 

And Chandelier... there's two. I think that's Madison and Spencer singing. 

[Bill1978]

Considering today's Broadway is often filled with musicals based on chart hits, I think it's a valid argument to say that Darren has experience writing musicals so he could easily write a song that needs to be in the vein of song from a fictional original Broadway show. I imagine it probably will be in the vein of a Disney I Want song. And since it appears to be a solo number it's not like Darren really needs to skill or writing for multiple character/voices which I think is often lacking in modern Broadway anyway.

[fakeempress]

Granted, I haven't seen that many musicals in my life, so which those based on chart hits are that have filled B'way, I can't recall. I know some that are based on movies. Or jukebox type like We Will Rock You - maybe these are the ones you mean by chart hit-based. And Darren writing chart hits - not getting the analogy. But I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. For instance, I believed the songs in Smash could be from Bway and Off Bway shows. 

Edited February 28, 2015 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

I'm sorry what Broadway hits OR hit pop songs has Darren written?

Excuse me I'm guessing his songs may be OK but let's stop the bullshit that he has some kind of proven track record with his songwriting.

I'm fine with Glee giving him a shot , they let Matt direct, Chris write a whole episode, and Amber sing a song of hers released, but it's an indulgence like all those examples were.

[phoenixrising]

All of Darren's solo work that I've listened to anyway is very white-guy-with-acoustic-guitar, and I think it's what he pulls off best. I'm also a Starkid fan, but even then, I only think a few of the songs were good (and actually the Starkid show that I think generally has the best music, Twisted, happened way after Darren's time). Like I said, I don't think he's an awful songwriter, but it isn't that unique, and probably not worthy of being Rachel's Tony-winning performance.

Also on Take Me To Church...yeah at least what I can hear of it, it's not as good as the original.

[tom87]

I'm sorry what Broadway hits OR hit pop songs has Darren written?

Excuse me I'm guessing his songs may be OK but let's stop the bullshit that he has some kind of proven track record with his songwriting.

I'm fine with Glee giving him a shot , they let Matt direct, Chris write a whole episode, and Amber sing a song of hers released, but it's an indulgence like all those examples were.

You are on fire tonight.

[KatWay]

I must have missed statements that proclaimed Darren having written hit Broadway and pop songs. I only saw some saying he's got some experience and the Starkid thing was popular.

 

Starkid was an amateur production of a college musical, but all the more impressive to me because the kids who put it together (not just Darren but the whole cast) really put in all the work themselves. Nobody said it was a hit Broadway musical.

 

Seriously, people are complaining that the Darren fans weren't mentioned in the long, summarising post of the crazy parts of fandoms, but that's only because they've been mentioned by every other post already! Yes, Darren has some crazy stans. So do the rest, which was blithely ignored or made relative like "but I haven't personally seen that..." "but the Darren stans are certainly the worst at this...".

 

I don't even like Darren that much, but no way is his fandom any worse than the rest of it. What I like about this forum is that people are generally very civil to each other and there's a distinct lack of over the top squeeing (like on Youtube, for example, where everybody seems to love everything).

[Florinaldo]

No one said Starkids' Harry Potter productions were at the level of a Broadway musical; that argument is made out of whole cloth.

 

It's very rare that the first efforts from composers and writers of musicals are done directly for Broadway. Most of them start somewhere else and often times it's in amateur theater and yes, in school productions. There is no guarantee that DC will end up writing music for Broadway or for Disney. It's in the realm of possibilities but who can predict the future with any certainty? He would have to find a good librettist because discipline in writing has not been a forte of the Starkids productions (he was not the book writer for these as far as I know).

 

It's not "bullshit" to say he has track record. It's simple facts. He has many songs to his credits and some of them, including his EP and their musical Me and My DIck, sold very well on iTunes. It's possible to not like his style of composition (from the YouTube versions I watched, I was not a big fan of the new songs he tried out during his national tour), but there's no denying the existence of a certain body of work.

 

Looking at the music for the next episodes, it looks like Sue might end up amongst the characters with the most songs to their credit this year. On top of all of the plotlines she carried and screen time devoted to her, we could conclude that S6 was conceived as Sue's season. A long delayed or promised showcase for JL perhaps?

Edited February 28, 2015 by Florinaldo