S05.E09: The Great Divide

[OnceSane]

The ALDC returns to Pittsburgh and the pressure is on to win after the girls' lackluster performance in Los Angeles. Meanwhile, division occurs among the moms based on who stayed to film the MattyB music video and who left; and one member must sit out when Abby learns the team is in the teen division.

[WildFlower87]

Boring episode. This show is getting so old. Like 90% of the show is basically a Jerry Springer episode and the other 10% is Abby obsessing over Maddie and yelling at everyone else. It's all old and redundant now. Same drama, new moms.

 

Yawn.

Edited March 4, 2015 by NickDisnCart

[TomGirl]

Abby looked more attractive tonight than I've ever seen her. That black top with the cut out shoulders was very flattering. I don't know how much weight she's lost, but she looks so much better.

[leighroda]

I swear, that music video has been a main plot for 3 weeks now... Move the hell on!

It's really sad when Kalani was the voice of reason when she said "everyone would be a whole lot happier if the would stop trying to get everyone to fight with Abby"

Also, when did Jesslyn become a counselor, the way she was mediating throughout the whole episode I was just waiting for her to turn to someone and ask "and how did that make you feel?"

As far as Holly vs Jill, I can kinda see both sides, on Holly's, I can understand the frustration that everyone has her back and are bad mouthing Abby, but the minute Abby comes in they are dead silent. But I also agree with Jill that it's not fair for Holly to expect her to jeopardize Kendall's position on the team, as we have seen in the past that Abby will absolutely take it out on the child. Jill had the right to pull Kendall from the music video, so I'm not sure why holly was so mad about it. Holly reacted the same way when christi and kelly had their issues (not speaking up for Mia's sake I mean).

This show needs to be sent out to pasture, it's been my guilty pleasure for a while, but this is just ridiculous they are using the same plots over and over... We get it, Maddie's the star, Nia has bad feet, the music stopped, etc.

[tessa]

Just starting to watch the episode on Lifetime. I was so looking forward to Brynn being part of the team so was disappointed she didn't make it this week.

 

Maddie on 2 spots of the pyramid - Kalani said it best - why not just make the whole pyramid Maddie. Anyone know where MacKenzie sang in NY City? I can't seem to see mention of it by googling it. I do know both she and Maddie were in NY for "The Duff " Premiere and the Teen Choice Awards.

 

I definitely see Holly's point but keep thinking back that the same thing happened to Kelly and Christy and Holly said very little in their defense at the time. What goes around does come back around. Jill is just like Melissa - the girls come first and I hate to say it but I also see their point, although I kept my mouth shut when I was younger when I should have spoken up and now regret it - so I speak my mind more often.

 

Abby realizes her girls aren't good enough to compete in the teen division so backtracks to the junior? Come on Abby - you're the best dance teacher out there according to you - your girls should do well in any division! What happens when Maddie turns 13 - is she out the door too? No = you'll protect her as long as possible - get rid of Kalani and Nia and bring on younger girls like Sarah.

 

Funny that Jill kept pushing Kira to stand up to Abby because Kalani was taken out of the group routine but Jill wouldn't stand up to Abby when it came to pulling Kendall from the video shoot. It's really no different as Kendall had prepared for it and wanted to be in it. Jill wants everyone else to fight and yet she knows where that got Kendall when she opened her mouth.

 

 Abby's puss when Nia was dancing was pathetic. I actually enjoy watching Nia as she puts so much spunk into her dancing and it's entertaining. Can't wait to see her music video!

 

The group dance was pretty but then again - there's Maddie front and center. No Abby - the groups didn't win last week - but not because Maddie wasn't there it was because - your choreography is dated and the west coast has thousands of Maddies. I doubt that little walk on part in Austin & Ally prohibited Maddie from competing - you just didn't want to see your group beat when Maddie was in it.

[Clemgo3165]

What WAS that dreck she "choreographed" for Nia?? That some terrible mish-mash she had her doing, and in a hideous yellow costume no less. I wish Abby would grow up and confront the Moms when she has issues with them rather than taking them out on their kids. Nia didn't deserve any of what she got last night. She seemed pretty demoralized in that talk with Holly in the hallway.

 

No, Nia's never going to be a high caliber dancer, but with choreography that's reasonably challenging and that shows off her unique gifts, she could certainly place at competitions.

[sofiah]

Abby realizes her girls aren't good enough to compete in the teen division so backtracks to the junior? Come on Abby - you're the best dance teacher out there according to you - your girls should do well in any division! What happens when Maddie turns 13 - is she out the door too? No = you'll protect her as long as possible - get rid of Kalani and Nia and bring on younger girls like Sarah.

 

 

In Abby's defense... you could probably have Maddie and/or Kalani (definitely Kalani) dancing in a group in the teen divisions and it wouldn't be a big deal.  Maddie could blend in, she has decent technique, etc.  Kendall also could probably be okay if she was more towards the back, less prominent, etc. However, having Mack and Nia and Jojo compete in the teen division?  Not going to happen, they are just not there yet - they would definitely lose.  So I can kind of see Abby's point; if she's got dancers like that in the group then they really can't afford to be in teen.  It made sense to take Kalani out... she already had a solo anyway.  

 

Here's an example of a Club Dance number that competed (and won) in Teen with junior dancers in it. I coincidentally loved this dance and I loved the mix up of ages.  

http://youtu.be/wmQH4J-giFM

But still, in this case, the majority of dancers are still teen.  In Abby's case it would have been a team of Junior dancers with two people alone pulling up the age .

 

I felt really bad for Nia this episode - as someone upthread asked - what WAS that choreography?  And that costume?  The whole thing was awful.  She was clearly upset about not placing, and she's clearly intelligent and realizes she is a bit behind others competitive dancers her age.  Now that she is getting older it will get harder and harder for her to "place".  Not every dancer is made to be a "competition kid", and I hope she is able to find validation through other means. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by sofiah

[Tasya]

Kalani, Kendall and Maddie competed in the Teen division at Jump with ALDC and they did well. Nia is not there and is never going to be there. She's a mediocre dancer that would never be on a high level competition team at most studios. JoJo probably will get there at some point based solely on the fact that she can perform like all get out. Mack sadly is not going to be competition team material for very much longer. That cutesy mini stuff she does is already getting old. Whenever I see Mack dance all I can do is compare her to Maddie and Chloe at the same age. While it's unfair to her it's a good yardstick because they have had the same training. Just think about the fact that Mackenzie is 11...that's three years older than Maddie when the show started and two years older than Chloe. Now look back at the solos that they were doing at that time. There simply is no comparison. Although Abby will never say it, Mack is more of a Nia than a Maddie. 

 

Next week is the competition with Brynn; I was at that competition and it was a great one. I'm curious to see how it's portrayed on the show and what you all think about the dancing. 

[BusyOctober]

If the age issue is a problem for Abby, doesn't that make her see she needs to up her game re. choreography?  Maddie and Mack will get older too. They may be top contenders in their division now, but they can't just roll on the floor with "I'm constipated" faces or wear pig tails and do handstands wearing a bumble bee costume for much longer.  Will Abby "quit" the junior dance team when M & M "age out?" Will she move them into a teen team with the same junior level dances?  If she wants them (or any of ALDC girls) to represent well at future competitions, Abby should focus on more technique and choreography.  I know her ego won't allow for it, but Abby's girls would benefit from professional instruction from anyone else not named "Abby".

[missbonnie]

I honestly wish Nia no bad will whatsoever, but as a former dance team coach for a high school I sit there and watch the group routines and Nia is consistently always a beat behind or out of place and it's obvious as all get out. I don't see the technical errors so much because I dont have a backround in dance, but I most definitely DO see things that affect the way a performance "shows" for lack of a better word and Jojo is just as bad. The difference is Nia is likeable and honestly tries to improve while Jojo is a self entitled brat and I definitely would have bounced her out the door for her mouth a long time ago.

[Absolom]

It was obvious with Nia from day one that dancing was not going to be a career path for her.  When they made up the team for the show, she and Holly were selected for some other reason that Nia's dancing ability.  Jojo I would bounce also.  She is simply too irritating.  Although for the show, her ability to mouth off at and about Abby makes for interesting television.  Away from the TV show, I expect Abby is already looking for or has found her next Maddie/Brooke.  Mac didn't pan out and it's her pattern to find a good, polite, biddable kid and concentrate on them.   In a couple of years Maddie will have become the new Brooke.

[sofiah]

Next week is the competition with Brynn; I was at that competition and it was a great one. I'm curious to see how it's portrayed on the show and what you all think about the dancing. 

 

You'll have to give us some scoop on what you saw! :) I usually love watching Brynn dance, so I'm curious to see what Abby does with her. 

[cali1981]

Nia appears to be a highly intelligent and very articulate young lady.  Holly, you are doing your daughter no favors by pursuing this delusional goal of "stardom".  Nia will indeed be a star but it will in a future and profession worthy of her abilities which look to be considerable.  As soon as your contract lapses run away from this nonsense as quickly as you can and put Nia on her own glide path to true success in life.

[DoctorWhovian]

I was just watching that video from Club Dance that was posted above. Clicked around to some of the related videos and saw an Abby Lee Anaconda dance. It's the group we see, I can see Maddie, Nia, Mackenzie, and I think Kendall. Something about the dance seemed off, like they were dancing too slow for the music? Just the moves weren't lining up as well. I don't know if this dance will be on the show or not, but it made me think: is it possible they choreograph the dances shown on TV keeping the sound alike music on TV? We all know the songs we're hearing on the show are not the songs they were originally dancing to, sometimes it's really obvious what the real song is (Kendall did a dance to Applause, there was a Let it Go dance a few episodes ago, Lady Marmalade last week etc.).

 

They don't want to pay for the rights to the music, so they use the real stuff and then use a sound alike for the show. Choreographing to two songs can't be that easy, so it would make sense if the dances are "dumbed down" for the show? Just a theory.

[Tasya]

The actual dance wasn't done to Anaconda; it was done to a song called "Girl's night out". Someone made that one that has Anaconda. Also the choreography on this is by Molly Long. Here's a hidden secret about the ALDC routines, a lot of their really good group choreography is done by others during their bootie camp. 

[tessa]

Doc - you hit it on the nose. Being these kids are having to perform at least 1 if not 2 or 3 "new" dances ever week for the different competitions - they really have to take sequences and string them together. We've all made mention of the same steps, turns ect. Unfortunately - doing this - the girls will not progress probably any farther than they already have. Maddie being home schooled and being at the studio as many hours as she is - has improved because her teachers are teaching her new steps and improving on the old ones. They're working with her to point her toes, straighten those legs, ect... and with this teaching and repetition she's getting better.

 

Sofia - I understand what you are saying but this is her "elite" group. Neither Nia, Paige nor MacKenzie should have probably been on it. They just don't have the skills but this team was only for the TV show. We have to show different ages, races ect... I've enjoyed seeing the girls grow throughout the years but the same situations are getting old.

 

Thinking of Jill - I remember when she first joined and Kendall was getting solos and duets. The "Dance Moms" couldn't understand why new Kendall was getting all these things and was not an original member. No diff than Jill wondering why Jojo and Kalani get solos. Or Jill complaining about Kalani leaving and coming back - ah - Jill - you left and went to Candy Apples. I feel bad because Kendall is a pretty and sweet girl - but her dances do nothing for me. I'd rather watch Maddie, Chloe or Kalani - Kendall just does not stand out for me.

[Absolom]

Ratings are in: 1.416 M viewers and a .5 rating.

 

Those numbers are getting into the range where I've seen Lifetime cancel shows.

[Booger666]

Yeah, Kendall doesn't stand out for me either. It's a shame as she is such a pretty girl, seems sweet, and occasionally has witty things to say. Jill is so domineering I think Kendall becomes a shrinking violet around her because Jill doesn't give her a chance to show some spunk.

Regarding Nia, she clearly isn't the best but there is something about her dancing I like. She seems more emotional and earnest, and in the groups I find myself looking for her to see how she is interpreting the dance. I have no knowledge of professional dancers, but on SYTYCD it seems a decent percentage advance based on drive and emotion over others who are more technically correct.

I'm suprised Abby let Nia dance that crap she choreographed. Before she has been so concerned about a dance having her name on it. That dance was an embarrasment to Abby.

[RedFire2000]

Nia is in desperate need of a new dance teacher. She can either have fame and stay with Abby, or leave and really learn how to dance and unleash her potential. For now, they have chosen fame. Sad, because Nia really wants to dance lyrical. I don't think she's cut out for it.

 

If they do reach a point where they need to move up to the teen category, Nia is going to hinder the group even more than she does now. She's not at the level she needs to be at her age to compete competitively.

[tessa]

Moon - I do agree with you. I think Nia does love to dance but not in the same way that Maddie and Chloe does. Holly has made sure that she has other extracurricular activities so she's well rounded. If anything - I think she out of all of them has a chance to make it in music and her dancing is just going to help her.

[WildFlower87]

Anybody else sick of Nia ending every solo with a death drop, it got old a long time ago.....

[Darknight]

Abby's studio doesn't produce amazing teen dancers. She does have some good teen dancers that can hold their own, but Abby's motto is make them a one trick pony and burn them out then move on to the next young kid. Look at Brooke. Now look at Maddie and the rest of the girls. As you get older your competition gets older and better. Abby won't be able to win in teens with her current dancers and choreography. If the show is on next year it's going to be surprising if they even place anymore.

[tessa]

Have to agree about the death drop - but it's been used routinely in squads for years. If you watch Bring It - at least one of the teams uses it every week.

[NextIteration]

Maddie on 2 spots of the pyramid - Kalani said it best - why not just make the whole pyramid Maddie.

 

I definitely see Holly's point but keep thinking back that the same thing happened to Kelly and Christy and Holly said very little in their defense at the time. What goes around does come back around. Jill is just like Melissa - the girls come first and I hate to say it but I also see their point, although I kept my mouth shut when I was younger when I should have spoken up and now regret it - so I speak my mind more often.

 

Abby realizes her girls aren't good enough to compete in the teen division so backtracks to the junior? Come on Abby - you're the best dance teacher out there according to you - your girls should do well in any division!

Team Kalani!

 

I think Holly and Nia are going to be disappeared by the end of the season, or will go out with a bunch of drama, a la Kelly and Christi. They did not travel to Ireland nor are they going to Australia during the hiatus, which speaks volumes.

 

You are correct, this group of girls is not good enough to level up to teen and compete on an elite level.  As the girls move up to teen and senior levels, it's much less about tricks and much more about artistry and perfect technique.

 

What WAS that dreck she "choreographed" for Nia?? That some terrible mish-mash she had her doing, and in a hideous yellow costume no less. I wish Abby would grow up and confront the Moms when she has issues with them rather than taking them out on their kids. Nia didn't deserve any of what she got last night. She seemed pretty demoralized in that talk with Holly in the hallway.

 

No, Nia's never going to be a high caliber dancer, but with choreography that's reasonably challenging and that shows off her unique gifts, she could certainly place at competitions.

 

The choreography and costuming were a joke, and I don't think it's that Nia can't pull off yellow, it was the all in the construction - and don't ever put yellow eyelashes on that poor child again!

 

Here's a hidden secret about the ALDC routines, a lot of their really good group choreography is done by others during their bootie camp. 

 

I think that's really obvious, especially when we know they are performing one of their pieces that they take to real competitions and not the fakity fake ones that we generally see on the show.

 

Nia is in desperate need of a new dance teacher. She can either have fame and stay with Abby, or leave and really learn how to dance and unleash her potential. For now, they have chosen fame. Sad, because Nia really wants to dance lyrical. I don't think she's cut out for it.

 

If they do reach a point where they need to move up to the teen category, Nia is going to hinder the group even more than she does now. She's not at the level she needs to be at her age to compete competitively.

 

I think Nia was cast for the show because she has that "it" thing that can't be taught, not her dance ability.  Abby has even said she has it - it's a performance quality, which makes her a viable triple threat and good for the show.  I don't think she does well at pretty intricate lyricals either, but I think if she shifted to studying modern and theatre dance only (along with time in ballet technique class) she could be a star in a small (modern/contemporary) established company - or possibly in the chorus with small breakout parts on Broadway.

 

If Nia weren't on this stupid show, perhaps she could even be trained properly at Abby's studio - I've never really looked at her site to see what classes are available - Abby has produced kids that are in those situations - but as long as she is on this show it will never happen.

 

Abby's studio doesn't produce amazing teen dancers. She does have some good teen dancers that can hold their own, but Abby's motto is make them a one trick pony and burn them out then move on to the next young kid. Look at Brooke. Now look at Maddie and the rest of the girls. As you get older your competition gets older and better. Abby won't be able to win in teens with her current dancers and choreography. If the show is on next year it's going to be surprising if they even place anymore.

 

After much Googling and looking at real competition results, on a national level Abby's studio seems to produce really good teen and senior boys (and a few girls) and mini girls.  This is her studio and the faculty, not necessarily Abby of course.

 

Regarding Nia, she clearly isn't the best but there is something about her dancing I like. She seems more emotional and earnest, and in the groups I find myself looking for her to see how she is interpreting the dance. I have no knowledge of professional dancers, but on SYTYCD it seems a decent percentage advance based on drive and emotion over others who are more technically correct.

 

This.

 

It was nice to see the girls in their ballet technique attire (black leos, pink tights) practicing their solos.  I wish we saw more evidence that they are spending time in actual technique classes and not all choreo all the time.

Edited March 5, 2015 by NextIteration

[Absolom]

Sadly I don't think all the ballet training in the world is going to make Nia have pretty feet and be truly graceful as a dancer should be.  She also has that nerve issue and I expect at some point not long after she's off the show she's going to realize that the pain isn't worth the reward.  

[spanana]

All of these mothers suck.  While I think Holly has a point about how some of the mothers kiss Abby's ass, she really needs to get off her high horse.  Did she go to bat for Paige or Chloe when they were Abby's scapegoats?  Did she take a stand when Kelly and Christi were having meltdowns?  So she can stuff it now that Nia is the target and I think Jill knows that if Nia leaves, Kendall is next in line to be targeted.  That said, Jill also sucks because she is a major kiss ass to the point that she might as well just attach her lips to Abby's ass.  Also why do the mothers care so much if Kyra stands up to Abby?  Jill also sucked because she was all about keeping silent to protect Kendall, but then was trying to goad Kyra into a fight with Abby.  Hey Jill, don't you think Kyra is keeping quiet for the sames reasons you are keeping quiet?

 

Did Maddie or Mack even speak in this episode?

[Darknight]

Nia was cast for sympathy. Imo.

[Lemons]

Abby's studio doesn't produce amazing teen dancers.

 

I think that's the case with most competition studios that teach advanced moves to 7 year olds.  They are so busy teaching them to do multiple turns in order to win a silly competition that they aren't working on developing core strength or spending the time on repetitive exercises that allow them to do the advanced moves with great technique and ease.  All of these girls that are on you-tube as "amazing" dancers are typically pre-teen or early teen.  The girls in professional schools surpass them by the teen years. 

Someone linked a you-tube video of Kalani's studio.  They had videos of young dancers at YAGP.  The videos showed young dancers that were put on pointe for YAGP.  They looked terrible.  Wobbly, unsure of themselves, not pulled up, terrible port de bras.  Too soon, too fast, and for no reason except to win a competition.

[sofiah]

The actual dance wasn't done to Anaconda; it was done to a song called "Girl's night out". Someone made that one that has Anaconda. Also the choreography on this is by Molly Long. Here's a hidden secret about the ALDC routines, a lot of their really good group choreography is done by others during their bootie camp. 

 

Well its not really a secret.  A lot of studios have guest choreographers do a few of their pieces per season (solos too) so its not like its something that needs to be hidden.  I actually have always thought the ALDC did not do this often enough...

 

I'd be curious to know -- what other outside choreographers have they worked with (besides Molly) for group dances?  

[Darknight]

I think that's the case with most competition studios that teach advanced moves to 7 year olds. They are so busy teaching them to do multiple turns in order to win a silly competition that they aren't working on developing core strength or spending the time on repetitive exercises that allow them to do the advanced moves with great technique and ease. All of these girls that are on you-tube as "amazing" dancers are typically pre-teen or early teen. The girls in professional schools surpass them by the teen years.

Someone linked a you-tube video of Kalani's studio. They had videos of young dancers at YAGP. The videos showed young dancers that were put on pointe for YAGP. They looked terrible. Wobbly, unsure of themselves, not pulled up, terrible port de bras. Too soon, too fast, and for no reason except to win a competition.

Lemons I see this at almost every competition my children attend. Amazing mini/junior dancers then that same studio doesn't have amazing senior/teen dancers. I don't like studios like this because it teaches the child nothing and skips foundations. No need to rush. Some parents also try to push the envelope for their little snow flake. It's becoming very common now for parents of dancers to set up fan pages, instagram accounts and youtube channels for their 6,7,8 yo doing multiple turn sequence and leg spins. And you're right people know about the younger dancers but not the older ones on youtube or in the dance world. The younger ones are very popular with the exception of Hayden and a few older teen dancers.

I also cringe at seeing any dancer under 10/11 on pointe. Just because your child's advanced doesn't mean their body or mind is ready.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Darknight

[NextIteration]

Nia was cast for sympathy. Imo.

 

Can you please explain why you think that Collins Entertainment (producers of the show that cast it) would have used that for a reason?

 

I think that's the case with most competition studios that teach advanced moves to 7 year olds.  They are so busy teaching them to do multiple turns in order to win a silly competition that they aren't working on developing core strength or spending the time on repetitive exercises that allow them to do the advanced moves with great technique and ease.  All of these girls that are on you-tube as "amazing" dancers are typically pre-teen or early teen.  The girls in professional schools surpass them by the teen years. 

Someone linked a you-tube video of Kalani's studio.  They had videos of young dancers at YAGP.  The videos showed young dancers that were put on pointe for YAGP.  They looked terrible.  Wobbly, unsure of themselves, not pulled up, terrible port de bras.  Too soon, too fast, and for no reason except to win a competition.

 

The pointe pieces were very shaky, they should have been embarrassed to send them - but a few of the girls, including Sarah Reasons placed high in Contemporary in their age division (The Ballet Conservatory, AZ, where they train for ballet).  All that said, some kids the same age (11-12) do very well en pointe and place high at YAGP, just not this group.  I'm always amazed by those prodigies.

[ThreaLevelMidnight]

I was totally Team Jill in that argument between Jill and Holly.  Jill actually seemed like the voice of reason.  Holly is just so entitled and delusional. 

 

Nia seems like she has a lovely personality, but gosh does she stick out like a sore thumb in the group dances. She is just so bad at dancing.  How does someone who has danced as many years as she has still look that clunky, ungraceful and unflexible?  

Edited March 6, 2015 by ThreaLevelMidnight

[Darknight]

Can you please explain why you think that Collins Entertainment (producers of the show that cast it) would have used that for a reason?

Nia mother Holly was the only working mother. She had to miss a ton of things at the studio while balancing a career. I also believed back in season 1 Holly missed the recital because she got her PHD. Nia is also a minority. Look at how she was cast in minority roles. All these girls and moms play a role on the show. Edited March 6, 2015 by Darknight

[Lemons]

The pointe pieces were very shaky, they should have been embarrassed to send them - but a few of the girls, including Sarah Reasons placed high in Contemporary in their age division (The Ballet Conservatory, AZ, where they train for ballet).  All that said, some kids the same age (11-12) do very well en pointe and place high at YAGP, just not this group.  I'm always amazed by those prodigies.

There are definitely kids at ages 11 and 12 who do very well on pointe, just not the competition schools.  The ones who do well go to excellent ballet schools, ballet class 6 days per week and endure hours at the barre preparing their bodies.  And a lot of very good ballet schools don't even have their young ones compete at YAGP, they wait until their teen years, if at all.  

 

One thing I noticed this week on the show is Maddie really stood out in the group.  She has improved immensely over the last year.  Probably because of her work with professionals and her full time training schedule.  Even though she is only 11 or 12 and tiny, she looked like a professional dancing with children. 

[NextIteration]

Nia mother Holly was the only working mother. She had to miss a ton of things at the studio while balancing a career. I also believed back in season 1 Holly missed the recital because she got her PHD. Nia is also a minority. Look at how she was cast in minority roles. All these girls and moms play a role on the show.

 

That, more than pity makes sense to me!  She was cast as a "hook".  Thanks for taking the time to answer because I really didn't understand!

 

I thought that the argument between Holly and Jill was ludicrous given the history of the show, for me, it's clear that Holly feels the pressure of being the next Abby "target" whether that's producer manipulation, Abby herself or Holly finally getting a clue (and being an extreme hypocrite after her behavior towards Christi in the beginning of the season), I'm not sure.  Jill is just being the brown-noser that she was cast to be - as you said, everyone has a role.

 

Kendall tends to blend and disappear for me as well in group dances, not really in a good or a bad way, she just doesn't pop for me. Looking at her old videos from Studio 19 and remembering back to when she first appeared on the show, she struck me as a very talented mini - so maybe she just peaked early, like lots of kids do in most competitive situations (dance, gymnastics, or any other sport).  For this reason I'd really have liked to have seen her in the MattyB video to see if she managed to shine from the back row.  JoJo clearly shined in this situation, which took me a bit by surprise.

 

 

There are definitely kids at ages 11 and 12 who do very well on pointe, just not the competition schools.

 

This is just not true on an all or nothing basis.  It all depends on the focus of the competition studio, there are competition studios that put a lot of emphasis on ballet and they do have children that compete and do well even en pointe from a very young age. Perhaps it's a function of my region, but there a few competition schools here that take ballet very, very seriously and they do send the cream of the crop to YAGP and the kids (again the cream of the crop and extremely talented youngsters) usually place very high as well as earning scholarships to prestigious summer intensives, lol, which they attend and don't blow off for nationals.

 

I'm sorry, I have a hard time abiding the snootiness that gets thrown at all competitive studios, I don't see it as a black and white issue. Clearly, Club Dance kids don't belong at YAGP with very young dancers en pointe, but I could dig up examples that do very well.  Some big names off the top of my head that started out in competition and moved on to a strict ballet focus are Dusty Button, Tiler Peck and Danny Tidwell, and they all come from places where ballet was taken very seriously, as well as other dance forms that competed on the circuit.

Edited March 6, 2015 by NextIteration

[Darknight]

Competition dance is very different from ballet dance. But I've seen some competition students hold their own.

[sofiah]

I'm sorry, I have a hard time abiding the snootiness that gets thrown at all competitive studios, I don't see it as a black and white issue. Clearly, Club Dance kids don't belong at YAGP with very young dancers en pointe, but I could dig up examples that do very well.  Some big names off the top of my head that started out in competition and moved on to a strict ballet focus are Dusty Button, Tiler Peck and Danny Tidwell, and they all come from places where ballet was taken very seriously, as well as other dance forms that competed on the circuit.

 

I feel the same way.  I think it's interesting though, that the Club Dance kids that did go to YAGP are not listed as being from "Club Dance" - so I'm assuming they all get their ballet training out of studio (is that common?)  And like you said, there are always exceptions.  

 

I also get annoyed when people keep claiming that the ALDC girls "should be doing x hours of ballet every day" etc. etc.  Of course if they did they'd be better overall dancers, and of course they could afford to take more ballet - but these girls have never claimed to want to be ballerinas, or to even be competitive in the ballet world, so I think comparing them to that is really unfair -- if their goal is to win the kinds of competitions they go to, be on broadway, dance back-up, music videos, etc.  then why would they spend countless hours at a professional ballet school?  I feel like that's the kind of thing a kid should do only if they have extraordinary passion specifically for ballet - otherwise, its a recipe for unhappiness.  

Edited March 6, 2015 by sofiah

[Clemgo3165]

For me, it would be because ballet gives you a strong foundation in all kinds of dance. You learn turnouts, positions, stretching, spotting turns, and how to keep a strong core. At the dance studio I attended as a kid, ballet was the fundamental before you could move on to tap or jazz. You had to have two years of ballet then you could move into different forms, but the expectation was that you'd continue with at least one ballet class per week. 

[tessa]

Again - I'm from the older generation - but when I was younger you took ballet at a ballet school or you took tap and jazz at a dance studio - and Miss Bev's students went on to have successful dance careers without ballet training. I do think children taking ballet have better form and flexability and from past seasons - it's been mentioned that these girls do take ballet. The only one Abby ever complained of not taking enough ballet classes was Chloe.

[Darknight]

Every dance studio that I know requires every student on their competition team to take a certain number of ballet classes. Ballet is important for every dancer including hip hop. It improves posture, technique, grace. Every competition I know of dance scores are 50% technique. You don't need to be at a professional ballet school but ballet is important. You can tell which kids take ballet classes weekly and other kids try to cover up their poor technique with tricks.

[sofiah]

Yeah, I never said ballet isn't important.  I understand why its important.

 

I was more alluding to ballet "purists", if you will, who make outrageous claims like Maddie should be taking 15 hours of ballet a week - or who compare the ALDC or Club Dance girls to kids the same age whose goal it is to become professional ballet dancers.  To me its an uncalled for comparison.  

Edited March 6, 2015 by sofiah

[OnceSane]

Most of the ballet discussion has been off topic. This thread is for discussing this week's episode.

[torus351]

                                                                                                           Maddie

                                                                                                  Kendall     Mackenzie

                                                                                           Jojo          Kalani             Nia

 

I'm not a big fan of Kalani, but i'm happy for her win.

Kendall's routine was okay, but unremarkable.

I like the group dance, a bit different from the usual stuff.

Holly is obnoxious, Jill is contradictory!