Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Starfish35]

9 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

As long as Noble is not Rip's time-displaced son, I'm in.

Lol.  :)

I think he's just doing the voice.  I don't think we'll actually see him.

[kassygreene]

38 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

As long as Noble is not Rip's time-displaced son, I'm in.

Never SAY that!  Go outside, spin three times (counter-clockwise), spit, and apologize before you bring down The Wrath Of The Whatever From High Atop The Thing.

HURRY!

Edited November 7, 2017 by kassygreene
there is no excuse for an incorrect quote

[Starfish35]

No, he'll be Stein's time-displaced grandson. :D

[Proteus]

Arthur Darvill interview:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/06/legends-of-tomorrow-arthur-darvill-rip-reunion/

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Rip is going to reunite with the team this week. What can you tease? 
ARTHUR DARVILL: So in quite a wonderful way, Rip’s on a vampire hunt. We’re in 1897, which just means we all get to wear really great outfits, which I’m very pleased about. So Rip’s left the Time Bureau on a mission of his own, and he’s chasing a vampire, or what he believes is a vampire, and he realizes very quickly that he can’t do it on his own, so in a slightly unhealthy way, he draws the Legends to him, and they go on a bit of a romp through the 1890s. It’s quite amazing. It’s a bit like an episode of Sherlock Holmes. We did a scene jumping onto the back of a horse and carriage, which was wonderful, and we meet an ancestor of Professor Stein (Victor Garber), who’s an actor. I can’t wait because I love watching Victor playing different versions of himself. He gets all hyped up about it, which I think is brilliant.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Proteus

[kismet]

Excited to hear about VG having a bigger role. And like AD, I love when VG or others play different versions of themselves.

I know a lot of people here see VG as checking out of the role or not wanting to be there. I do not see that at all. I think VG is putting as much into his scenes as previous seasons. I just think the writers are finding a believable way to write him off the show, so his importance in the main missions is becoming less. It makes sense that they would not make him pivotal in solving every mission, if in a few episodes he is not going to be on the show. I believe that VG is making it seem like Stein is missing his other life, and that is perfectly normal for people to not want to be a time traveling mission forever with no connection or interaction with their real life outside of the ship.

I wonder if the show goes on for longer, if they will ground the waverider for a bit of the season or at least let the team have lives out of the waverider.

[Starfish35]

14 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

No, he'll be Stein's time-displaced grandson. :D

I was kidding, but....turns out he's Damien's time-displaced daughter. :) Ok, not really, he was only speaking through her at one point.  But I'm getting very curious about who Mallas is, if the Legends are the reason he exists in the first place. 

[Miss Dee]

Someone speculated on the A.V. Club that Mallus could end up being Rip himself. That'd be trippy.

[johntfs]

10 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I was kidding, but....turns out he's Damien's time-displaced daughter. :) Ok, not really, he was only speaking through her at one point.  But I'm getting very curious about who Mallas is, if the Legends are the reason he exists in the first place. 

That's possible, but right now I think it's more that all the anachronisms allow Mallus to hide his manipulations of time among them and also keep his foes (the Time Bureau and the Legends) busy while he gathers his forces an executes his plans.

 

2 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

Someone speculated on the A.V. Club that Mallus could end up being Rip himself. That'd be trippy.

I kind of hope not.  Another version of that plot was concluded on The Flash last season (AKA not even six months ago) including the bit with the villain claiming to be a god and using a different voice.  In that case Savitar's voice was Tobin Bell.

Edited November 8, 2017 by johntfs

[Starfish35]

10 minutes ago, johntfs said:

That's possible, but right now I think it's more that all the anachronisms allow Mallus to hide his manipulations of time among them and also keep his foes (the Time Bureau and the Legends) busy while he gathers his forces an executes his plans.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought Ava said in the season premiere that the Legends were the reason for Mallus, and Rip didn't dispute it, as if it was an established fact.  So that made me think that something the Legends have done caused Mallus.

 

13 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I kind of hope not.  Another version of that plot was concluded on The Flash last season (AKA not even six months ago) including the bit with the villain claiming to be a god and using a different voice.  In that case Savitar's voice was Tobin Bell.

Yeah I was kind of thinking the same thing. Future evil Rip would feel too similar to future evil Barry/Savitar.

[kismet]

2 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

Someone speculated on the A.V. Club that Mallus could end up being Rip himself. That'd be trippy.

And yet totally logical for this show and universe.

Maybe Mallus will be Rip's time displaced son brought back from the dead.

[johntfs]

54 minutes ago, kismet said:

Maybe Mallus will be Rip's time displaced son brought back from the dead.

Now that I could maybe get behind, especially since Mallus was someone the Time Masters greatly feared.  The idea that their manipulations created their worst fear works really well.  Perhaps Mallus is the one behind the Thanagarian invasion/extermination that the Time Masters decided they needed Vandal Savage to fight.  So they made sure Savage killed Rip's wife and son to put Savage in the position he needed to be when if they hadn't done that there would have been no Mallus and no Thanagarian invasion after all.

[Proteus]

Gideon spoilers. Rip/Gideon shippers will be happy:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/11/09/gideon-will-appear-in-the-flesh-in-an-upcoming-legends-of-tomorr/

[Miss Dee]

Aw, Gideon, you don't like Mick? Now why you gotta be like that??

Another interview mentioned an episode that happened entirely aboard the ship with no time travel. It sounds as though it could be this "frozen crew" storyline. Wonder how they get Gideon in the flesh? Maybe they'll put holo-transmitters all over the Waverider, courtesy of Ray Palmer....

[Starfish35]

On 11/8/2017 at 1:39 PM, johntfs said:

Mallus was someone the Time Masters greatly feared. 

Ok, I forgot about this.  But how could the Legends have been the reason Mallus existed, if he's been around long enough that the Time Masters knew about him and feared him?  Those two things don't go together.  I'm going to have to go back and see exactly what it was that Ava said in the the season premiere.

[Sakura12]

Maybe the Legends messing up time allowed Mallus to gain more power? Or most likely Rip lied Ava since he for some reason really wanted the Time Bureau to hate the Legends. When he maybe should've spent his time getting them to hate and go after Mallus. 

Gideon doesn't like Mick, he probably spilled beer on her systems or something. Oliver interacting with Gideon should be in interesting. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Sakura12

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok, I forgot about this.  But how could the Legends have been the reason Mallus existed, if he's been around long enough that the Time Masters knew about him and feared him?  Those two things don't go together.  I'm going to have to go back and see exactly what it was that Ava said in the the season premiere.

As I recall it, Ava said the Legends were the reason Mallus was a threat, not the reason he existed.  Maybe the Time Masters (or Somebody) locked Mallus in a cage somehow made of Time.  When the Legends broke Time they broke, or at least damaged, Mallus' "cage."

 

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Gideon doesn't like Mick, he probably spilled beer on her systems or something

When was that established?  As far as I remember, the only Legend who's pissed Gideon off (recently) is Zari, who did a "teeny" hack on her subsystems.

[Starfish35]

35 minutes ago, johntfs said:

As I recall it, Ava said the Legends were the reason Mallus was a threat, not the reason he existed.  Maybe the Time Masters (or Somebody) locked Mallus in a cage somehow made of Time.  When the Legends broke Time they broke, or at least damaged, Mallus' "cage."

Oh ok.  Yeah that would make more sense. 

37 minutes ago, johntfs said:

When was that established?  As far as I remember, the only Legend who's pissed Gideon off (recently) is Zari, who did a "teeny" hack on her subsystems.

That's from the link that @Proteus posted above - the interview with Amy Pemberton.

Quote

Pemberton says that besides Zari, Gideon does not particularly like Mick Rory — something she says is too bad because she gets along well with actor Dominic Purcell.

[Starfish35]

I've learned a couple of (I think) previously unknown spoiler tidbits from the episode photo information that DCLegendsTV posts.  

The first is for next week's episode "Helen Hunt."  One of the photos has Jax hiding behind some planters with a woman. The caption identifies her as Hedy Lamarr.

The second is for the Vietnam episode the following week.  The first photo has Mick holding his gun on a man identified in the caption as Dick Rory.  So maybe Mick runs into his father?  Or another relative?  Father seems most likely though.

[Sakura12]

I think I remember something about meeting Mick's dad this season. 

[Miss Dee]

I did too - it was from one of those clickbait sites, and I didn't see anything on it since, so I wondered if it was misinformation.

It should be interesting. We the audience know the fire that burned Mick's parents was accidental - he was guilty of not obeying the rules about lighting fires and running away. But I'm not sure anyone else does and we know Mick encourages that story himself as proof of his psychotic nature. Will this episode start to walk that back? And what kind of people were Mick's parents?

Yeah I'm looking forward to this one.

[Starfish35]

Looks like Sara won't be too happy about Zari hacking history.

Legends Stars Praise Wonder Woman Nod, Preview Rebellious Zari vs. Sara

Quote

The Waverider team, however, won’t react to Zari’s good deed for Helen with the same warmth. “That’s something you’re going to see a lot of in the coming season: Zari trying to hack time and find these loopholes,” Ashe previewed. “It’s going to come to a head, actually, in this episode that we’re shooting right now, especially with Sara. She’s not cool with it.”

Zari’s rebellious actions are “annoying” for Sara and “something that she can’t really tolerate on the team,” Caity Lotz shared. “She can’t have some new person coming in and messing everything up by trying to do her own thing. If she wants to be a part of this team, she needs to be a part of the team.”

But there’s also an argument to be made that the newest Legend has something to offer when it comes to the show’s historical anachronisms. “When she’s coming across Helen of Troy and seeing her in peril, she’s sort of seeing the possibilities a little bit more than everyone else,” Ashe noted.

“I think what’s great is she gives us a new perspective on the ways that we can alter history and maybe actually improve it, rather than just correct it,” Richardson-Seller added. “So it’s definitely an eye-opener for the whole team, especially Sara, who has very strict rules. She has to sort of reassess, and actually, in a later episode, Zari’s way of doing things is the way that we all survive.”

Not sure how I feel about this.  Sara's never been one to follow the rules herself, so it seems a bit out of character for her to be taking such a hard line on this.  I'll wait to see how it plays out though.  Maybe what happened with Rip and breaking time (that she in particular is getting blamed for) is making her tougher on keeping the rules than she normally would be.  

[Sakura12]

I can see Sara being mad that Zari did that without telling her about what she was doing but understand why she did it.  Although she may be trying to take her job more seriously and not have her team be known as screw ups. 

From the last episode I'm now expecting that when the Legends and the Magic doom team have their final battle and Mallus and them thinking they are winning, the Dominators led by Gumball teleport down, followed by the Amazonians with Helen of Troy show up to help the Legends. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Sakura12

[lurker22]

This article has a bit more on the interview from the cast.

Unfortunately, there won't be any more mentions of the Amazonians, but the conflict between Sara and Zari should happen in Episode 10. New characters are always challenging Sara's leadership style (e.g. Amaya with her critique of Sara choosing team over tactics, resulting in Sara almost leaving Ray behind in Camelot), so this is probably another one of that, no matter how OOC it may seem. But Zari and Sara haven't had much interaction thus far, and we know Zari does respect Sara and think of her as a self-made badass, so I'm interested to see how it goes.

Edited November 15, 2017 by lurker22

[Sakura12]

It may be OOC for plot, but I do like that they show Sara listening and learning from her team. Unlike Rip who still just does whatever he wants without caring what anyone else thinks. Sara will comprise when it's needed and it sounds like she eventually does. 

[Starfish35]

I think, the more I think about it, that it can work. I can see that Sara is thinking that the last time they broke the rules, they broke time and got "fired".  I think this has really become a mission for Sara, and she wants to not make any more mistakes like breaking time, and so in her mind, it's important to follow the rules.  But maybe Zari can help her find a bit more balanced approach.

[kismet]

I think SL is rebellious by nature. But I also see her as a very mission focused person. I also think she has had to deal with some serious consequences both on a personal and professional level so I think she will consider consequences before breaking rules. She wanted OQ, so you got him and bad things happen. She did some rule bending and breaking in s1/2 of LoT and there were serious consequences. So I can understand how she might see rule breaking as not necessarily the best choice considering they broke time. I think SL takes her responsibility as team leader and the Legends mission seriously, so even if it goes against her personality it it important to her that consequences are considered.

I actually think it's a realistic drama that is being set up between Zari and Sara. Zari is new to this mission and has not seen the bad things that have happened. She is still naive to a lot of what could happen. Sara is 3 years into this mission, so she has seen it from all sides now. So as much as Sara may personally want to make decisions, she has to look at the broader picture. It is what makes SL a good leader because she looks beyond just what she might want to do. I also think having Zari provide some friction or challenging SL will make for believable good tv. And perhaps it will lead to good decisions, because tunnel mission vision is not a good thing either.

I also wonder if a lot of it will be reduced to concern because she goes rogue. And team players going rogue are always a concern for good leaders.

[Maverick]

 Given magic is the theme of the season, I would think they'd introduce more of the DC magic-based heroes.  I know Constantine is showing up, but I wonder if we'll get Zatanna, Dr. Fate or Jason Blood.  

[kismet]

Given magic is the theme of the season, I just hope they don't screw it up like Arrow did.

[johntfs]

13 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I think, the more I think about it, that it can work. I can see that Sara is thinking that the last time they broke the rules, they broke time and got "fired".  I think this has really become a mission for Sara, and she wants to not make any more mistakes like breaking time, and so in her mind, it's important to follow the rules.  But maybe Zari can help her find a bit more balanced approach.

Even beyond that, two episodes ago Ray "died" because they broke time.  So, fixing the anachronisms wasn't simply about taking responsibility, it became a matter of real personal concern because at any given point one of Sara's crew might wink out of existence because of this stuff.  Meanwhile, Rip just provided an excellent illustration of why going rogue and doing "what's needed while saying to hell with everything else" is a bad idea.

Sure, what Zari did seems compassionate and without risk.  The Trojan War will still play out as written.  Still, you now have Helen of Troy on Themyscira.  Helen of Troy who fully remembers her adventurers in time and old Hollywood.  Will that be a problem?  Who knows?  Even more, having "hacked history" once, there's no reason for Zari not to do it again.

[tofutan]

Any idea when Ava will show up again/how many episodes she's supposed to be in this season?

[Featherhat]

Zari/Sara conflict is fine. They've set it up okay so far with Sara mentioning "do dead sisters count?". She spent a lot of S2 going after DD before he could kill LL and ended up with a heavenly/Spear version of LL telling her it was ok, so after the "we messed up time and LL is ok with what happened" Sara lets it go only to be plunged into another dark space *even though Rip was right there with them*. I like Zari so far and Sara is my favourite in the entire verse so I'm not going to complain if they have an argument that's not about a man, though I do wish they'd have interacted a bit more so far. 

[lurker22]

I think all these consequences from breaking time could still be affecting how Sara leads her team. And she's learning from Rip's mistakes. Particularly in Ep 5, when she used the memory gun on the medical examiner. I initially thought it was a bit odd why she needed to do that. Sure, he was suspicious of them, but in the grand scheme of things, it didn't seem like it would lead to any catastrophic consequences. But then I chalked it up to Sara being really responsible and careful now, making sure to tie up any loose ends she could. I don't think she wanted to be known as the leader of losers (like how the Time Bureau and Darhk are seeing her and her team). So Zari going rouge and off-book goes against that.

But Sara is also good at listening to what her team says. And we know Zari has respect for her Captain. So this conflict is going to be interesting.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, lurker22 said:

I initially thought it was a bit odd why she needed to do that. Sure, he was suspicious of them, but in the grand scheme of things, it didn't seem like it would lead to any catastrophic consequences.

I think she did it because he'd been exposed to anachronistic technology (the Palmertech watch from 2016).

[lurker22]

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

I think she did it because he'd been exposed to anachronistic technology (the Palmertech watch from 2016).

Right. I think had Ray not said it was from 2016, it might not have been such a big deal. He only thought it was a cool watch. Anyway, Sara had the memory gun with her, so it means that she thought that there was a need to use it, which makes me think she's much more careful this time than say, last season.

[legaleagle53]

Yet in the most recent episode, both Helen of Troy AND Hedy Lamarr got to keep their memories of their interactions with the Legends, which was particularly surprising in Hedy's case, since she not only knew about the Legends but even enough about their powers and their technology to tell Jax and Stein that it would not only be safe for them to become Firestorm, but that it would also be exactly what was needed to reverse the accidental body switch. Sara would have insisted that the memory gun be used on both women as a precaution.

Edited November 19, 2017 by legaleagle53

[lurker22]

Well, Sara got the life force sucked out of her before the big fight was over, and then was put in a medically-induced coma. So maybe she just didn't have the time or opportunity to insist on wiping their memories.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, lurker22 said:

Well, Sara got the life force sucked out of her before the big fight was over, and then was put in a medically-induced coma. So maybe she just didn't have the time or opportunity to insist on wiping their memories.

In which case, she's going to be hella pissed off when she comes to and finds out!

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

In which case, she's going to be hella pissed off when she comes to and finds out!

Well, maybe, but probably not.  Before taking Helen to Themyscira, Zari checked the historical record to make sure doing that wouldn't screw up history.  Figure the other Legends did the same thing regarding Hedy Lemarr.  They let young Ray keep his memories while erasing those of his mom.  The Legends aren't utterly stupid.  We can assume they check things out with Gideon on a case by case basis in terms of who gets mind-zapped and who doesn't.  It's like the idea that they have one bathroom on the ship.  We know they all have to piss and crap occasionally but we don't have to see them doing it to know that they're doing it.  It's the same thing with the memory guns.  We don't have to see them doing that to know that they're doing it or not as needed.

[Miss Dee]

Can't figure out how to link to Twitter pics on my phone at work: but Maisie and Tala have released BTS pics of Ray, Nate and Amaya dressed in...pirate suits! PIRATES!!!

[Starfish35]

11 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

Can't figure out how to link to Twitter pics on my phone at work: but Maisie and Tala have released BTS pics of Ray, Nate and Amaya dressed in...pirate suits! PIRATES!!!

Here's Amaya from Maisie's Instagram.

Here's the other two:

So what episode do we think they're on now? 11? 12?  They should have been finished with 10 a couple of weeks ago.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Starfish35

[tennisgurl]

Its inevitable that we would get a pirate episode. Score!

[Sakura12]

Pirates, it's too bad this an ep we'll have to wait until February to see. 

[Starfish35]

3 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Pirates, it's too bad this an ep we'll have to wait until February to see. 

At least, yeah. 

[legaleagle53]

Either Brandon is trying to look like a badass or Ray really, REALLY hates that pirate outfit!

[Oreo2234]

Take it with a grain of salt but I heard a rumor Matt Ryan (Constantine) is joining the Legends full time next season. If true I'm not sure how I feel about that. The showrunners seem a little too in love with him and I could see him becoming another it boy that the writers go a little overboard with like Nate was for a while. 

[Starfish35]

10 minutes ago, Oreo2234 said:

Take it with a grain of salt but I heard a rumor Matt Ryan (Constantine) is joining the Legends full time next season. If true I'm not sure how I feel about that. The showrunners seem a little too in love with him and I could see him becoming another it boy that the writers go a little overboard with like Nate was for a while. 

Yeah no.  I'm not in love with that idea.  I'm not a fan of the dark occult magic stuff; that's the reason I didn't watch his show in the first place.  I like the tone Legends has now, and I'd rather it not go down that rabbit hole.  

Besides, as you say, he's a fun guest star, but I have a feeling he might kind of take over the show, and...yeah, no.

[Sakura12]

I wouldn't mind seeing Constantine again after his arc, but more like Jonah Hex where it's one episode a season. 

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah no.  I'm not in love with that idea.  I'm not a fan of the dark occult magic stuff; that's the reason I didn't watch his show in the first place.  I like the tone Legends has now, and I'd rather it not go down that rabbit hole.  

Besides, as you say, he's a fun guest star, but I have a feeling he might kind of take over the show, and...yeah, no.

John Constantine makes Rip Hunter look like a team player and Mick Rory look like Ray Palmer in terms of morality.  In terms of sheer power, he'd probably be one of the weakest of the Legends.  Sara could easily kick his ass.  But with Constantine, it's not what he has the power to do, it's what he's willing to do to you with the power that he does have.  And he's willing to do some really bad shit to you.  If he's eventually in an episode with Damien or Nora, I suspect that something pretty bad is going to happen to Nora.

[Starfish35]

Well the title of 310 is Daddy Darhkest, so.....

[Lugal]

Maisie in the pirate getup!  Shiver me timbers! (sorry, I had to say it)

Can't wait for that episode, even if it is February.