Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Miss Dee]

I love that the description uses the word "frightfully"; usually these are very dry and neutral. Even the Omniscient Synopsis Creator trembles before Mick!

This really gives weight to my earlier theory (in Camelot/3000) that however the hell it happened, Mick Rory's mind is somehow unusually powerful. Can it withstand the Spear in some way?

Hopefully we will see now why Hourman told the team that "Mr. Rory" sent him at the end of the first season!

[KirkB]

Mick has always had a seriously strong will. Combined with whatever the Time Masters did to his mind he could indeed be quite formidable, but most of the time chooses not to bother and just punches or shoots things.

[lurker22]

EW Spoiler room:

Quote

What the heck is Doomsworld on Legends of Tomorrow? — Martha
Yes, a logline for the March 28 episode reveals that the Legion of Doom has rewritten reality, hence Doomsworld. This new reality is basically the perfect world for the Legion, complete with personalized punishments for the Legends. “For the Legends, it’s very different,” Brandon Routh says of Doomsworld. “None of us have our abilities and powers. Ray is a janitor for S.T.A.R. Labs, and the world is being run by insane crazy people. So, yeah, it’s a bit of the worst nightmare.” Trust me when I tell you, he’s not even the character who has it the worst!

[Miss Dee]

"The world is being run by insane crazy people."

So...this one?

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Miss Dee said:

"The world is being run by insane crazy people."

So...this one?

So THAT'S whom we have to blame -- the Legion of Doom used the Spear of Destiny to rewrite the reality of OUR world.  And here I thought it was all Barry Allen's fault!

[squidprincess]

I rather like the idea of personalized punishments.  I wonder if we'll get any hint of the others' fates.

[Sakura12]

From the pics I've seen it looks like Sara and Amaya are working for the Legion as (from their outfits) dominatrix assassins. Which would be them working for the people that killed their loved ones and in Sara's case killed her. 

I wonder what Jax and Stein are doing in the Doomworld. Don't really care about Nate, maybe he's an actual Historian. LoL. 

I'm excited to see Mick be the big damn hero. To show that he does care about his team and wants to get them back. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Sakura12

[Miss Dee]

Nate became that yoga instructor! Because they killed off George Lucas for spite!

I'm excited for Mick to be the BDH too...as long as he doesn't have to sacrifice his life or his spot on the Legends team to do it....

PLEASE let somebody on the Legends team finally appreciate him for once. At a level higher than "We keep you around because you're like the drunk uncle," I mean.

[lurker22]

Nate has a mullet, if that means anything, lol.

With Mick being the hero, do we see him somehow telling Rex Tyler to warn the Legends about going to 1942? Is Rex resurrected?

[MarkHB]

Here's the thing, though: as it played out, did the Legends going to 1942 actually precipitate anything bad?  In other words, did they let Zoom into the JSA brownstone or something?  Because as I remember it, even though the ship wound up crashing and Rip did the time-scatter thing, their presence wasn't responsible for any of the evil or aberrant stuff (like Hitler getting an atomic bomb) that happened.

[Miss Dee]

If he does tell Rex to warn the Legends, is that to try and stop them from going there...or is it because he knows that's a damn surefire way of getting them to go (like reverse psychology)??

[squidprincess]

51 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Here's the thing, though: as it played out, did the Legends going to 1942 actually precipitate anything bad?  In other words, did they let Zoom into the JSA brownstone or something?  Because as I remember it, even though the ship wound up crashing and Rip did the time-scatter thing, their presence wasn't responsible for any of the evil or aberrant stuff (like Hitler getting an atomic bomb) that happened.

I think, arguably, it did.  Because the ship crash/time scatter led to Rip himself getting kidnapped and turned.  If not for that, the Legion wouldn't have been able to get so many of the spear fragments.  They might still have gotten the halves of the medallion, but the medallion wasn't nearly as precise as having the man who hid the spear fragments telling them where to go.

[Featherhat]

I wonder if Doomworld will last until "Aruba" and if this "re writing of reality" is connected to Laurel's appearance? Or God help us that they use it as an excuse to have her alive again for real.  

The personalised punishments for the Idiots sound "fun" as does the fact that Mick Rory is the Only You Can Save Reality character, although its really not surprising given his arc in the last few episodes.

6 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

If he does tell Rex to warn the Legends, is that to try and stop them from going there...or is it because he knows that's a damn surefire way of getting them to go (like reverse psychology)??

I'd guess the 2nd, since Mick is under no illusions about the team, he agrees with Thawn that they are all a bunch of idiots. But he stays anyway.

[lurker22]

4 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I wonder if Doomworld will last until "Aruba" and if this "re writing of reality" is connected to Laurel's appearance? Or God help us that they use it as an excuse to have her alive again for real. 

Caity is still in her Doomworld look and Nick still has the mullet on Caity's last day of filming, so I'm going to guess whatever happens in Doomworld carries into Aruba.

Someone on Twitter who is like a Vancouver paparazzi said Katie shot a "vision scene" with Caity, so Laurel Lance is probably still dead.

[Argenta]

15 hours ago, Featherhat said:

The personalised punishments for the Idiots sound "fun" as does the fact that Mick Rory is the Only You Can Save Reality character, although its really not surprising given his arc in the last few episodes.

I love the way you've subtly renamed the team :D

[Featherhat]

Apparently I'm with Team Doom on this one, especially as they do put the spear together.

[Proteus]

MRS Interview:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Collider/status/841700576719179781

[Proteus]

Extended promo for next week. So they are returning to the Vanishing Point where Snart died. This makes me wonder if TPTB were lying about Snart returning from a time before he was a Legend. Maybe he's really alive and just gets corrupted by Thawne like Rip was:

[Starfish35]

Regarding whether anything is confirmed about anyone leaving, I believe @Proteus posted an interview with MG recently where he mentioned not being able to discuss who would be back for season three without spoiling the end of this season.  Which does not confirm but does seem to imply that someone is leaving.

I believe Nick Zano has said that he is coming next season though, so likely Nate is not going anywhere.

Personally, I think Amaya is probably leaving, and maybe Stein.  Kinda 50/50 on Rip right now.  But I think everyone else will be back.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Starfish35

[BkWurm1]

I don't think Amaya will leave.  I think they are happy with the actress and how she works in the show.  I just don't think something like her prewritten destiny will get in the way when the show has built the season around a MacGuffin that can easily change it.

 I do worry about Garber and Routh and Darvil leaving because they actually could get other gigs pretty easily but I'm hopeful that they LIKE what they are doing too much to want to leave.  Or at least hopeful that not all will leave at once.  I'd add DP to that list but I really do think he's enjoying his stint on LoT and the character he gets to play.  He's come a long way from where Heatwave started.  

[squidprincess]

I think Darvill's other gigs are primarily theatre, and those don't pay tremendously well.   Hopefully, he likes having a regular paycheck and a summer vacation that lets him do other projects.  I've decided not to worry about it, and just nosily peer at the man's twitter.  If his location changes from London/Vancouver, then I'll get worried.  :-P

It's probably not realistic, but I'm really hoping the thing about changing casts is a fake out.  I really don't want to lose any of these characters at this point.  Even Nate has been growing on me, much to my surprise.

[Sakura12]

LoT having a short season probably helps, they are all done filming now and are free to work on other projects until September. 

Have the producers mentioned anything about people the changing cast since the first season? I think the changes are only made if the actor wants out or they messed up the characters (the Hawks). They didn't do that this season, even if I'm not a huge fan of Nate he's not awful like the Hawks and Savage were. Although I do think we will be losing a character this season. I just don't know which one. 

[Miss Dee]

I hate to say it but I'm half-afraid it's Garber. I didn't miss that anvil about him getting older and leaving Jax someday, and they're emphasizing the partnership between him and Mick pretty hard. I know that's partly because they love the actors' dynamic (which is great) and partly because they wanted to break up Ray and Mick for Ray and Nate (FORKING BASTARDS), but I'm wondering if it's not to set up an arc for Mick next season too. Especially if Amaya leaves as well - how many partners can the man lose before he finally breaks?

(Actually...if anything breaks Mick, it'll be the death of that rat. Final straw and all that.)

And while I'd rather Stein leave than Mick or Ray or Rip - dammit, I don't want to lose anybody! I love this cast!

[Cthulhudrew]

Mick and Jax- that would be kind of an interesting (and dangerous?) combination. Especially if somehow Mick becomes a part of the Firestorm matrix. It still really annoys me that they largely ignore Firestorm's transmutation powerset to make him more of a generic "fire guy" but having Pyro Mick be part of that combo? I think they could have some fun with that storyline, even if they probably play it more for comedy and/or just cursorily rather than the far more interesting (to me) dark psychological drama that they could do but which is generally not something these shows go for much (at least this one).

[BkWurm1]

I don't think they'd take Heatwave and make him part of Firestorm.  We could get a new Stein though.  I'd love for his daughter to come on board.  

[Delphi]

15 hours ago, squidprincess said:

 

It's probably not realistic, but I'm really hoping the thing about changing casts is a fake out.  I really don't want to lose any of these characters at this point.  Even Nate has been growing on me, much to my surprise.

I'm honestly starting to think that the rotating cast line was basically because Wentworth wanted out and the hawks didn't work so the producers were just like,  "Yes,  this was always the plan!"

I'm cautiously optimistic that Garber doesn't want out,  the seasons are short and he seems to enjoy his cast mates.   So fingers crossed. 

[MarkHB]

10 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Especially if somehow Mick becomes a part of the Firestorm matrix. It still really annoys me that they largely ignore Firestorm's transmutation powerset to make him more of a generic "fire guy" but having Pyro Mick be part of that combo?

They've established that the transmutation powers exist, but it's apparently really, really hard for him to do.  Saves it from becoming an easy out too often (turn Gertrude into helium!)

OTOH, remembering Mick's face when he saw the original Ronnie/Stein Firestorm in the first Fight Club video?  Priceless!

[Proteus]

“Aruba” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

SEASON FINALE — As the Legends are about to take off for their next destination, a massive timequake rocks the ship.  In order to try and fix what has happened, they are forced to break the one cardinal rule of time travel.  But if they are able to destroy the spear, they will face the ultimate consequence.  Victor Garber, Brandon Routh, Arthur Darvill, Caity Lotz, Dominic Purcell, Franz Drameh, Nick Zano and Maisie Richardson-Sellers. Rob Seidenglanz directed the episode written by Phil Klemmer & Marc Guggenheim (#217).  Original airdate 4/4/2017.

SOURCE:

The CW

[Sakura12]

Well that gave away nothing. Lol

[squidprincess]

I had the same reaction.  That is an INCREDIBLY unenlightening synopsis.

What IS the cardinal rule of time travel?  Because I feel like they've broken all the rules all of the time.  Including crossing their own timelines.

[Starfish35]

Lol, exactly.  

[Maverick]

 They established the standard time travel show trope of 'you can't go back to any point in time you've already visited' back in season one.   I believe it was used to explain why Rip couldn't go back and try to kill Savage before the meteor strike after his first attempt failed (which of course didn't explain how he couldn't kill Savage in his 20s or some other point prior).    

[MarkHB]

I think I like the Doctor's "cardinal rule of time travel" (or whatever he called it, if he gave it a name), regarding "the one place, when you are a time traveler, you must never, ever go."

Spoiler-tagged for those who don't know about Trenzalore:

Spoiler

That place you must never visit is, your own grave.

[squidprincess]

6 hours ago, Maverick said:

 They established the standard time travel show trope of 'you can't go back to any point in time you've already visited' back in season one.   I believe it was used to explain why Rip couldn't go back and try to kill Savage before the meteor strike after his first attempt failed (which of course didn't explain how he couldn't kill Savage in his 20s or some other point prior).    

Though Rip's account to Ray in Leviathan indicated he had broken that rule himself, by the repeated attempts to save his family.  But they kept dying anyway.  Either because "time wants to happen" or because of Time Master sabotage.

Maybe it has to do with trying to undo your own decisions.  We did see that "Mr. Rory" had sent Hourman back to warn the crew.  Maybe it has to do with that?

[zannej]

Maybe they will have to go back in time to save Hourman. or maybe they will warn their former selves about what is going to happen?

[lurker22]

A couple of spoilers from PaleyFest:
 

Quote

 

The Legends of Tomorrow finale breaks a key rule.

For two seasons the Legends have jumped all over time, with the warning they couldn't go back to occasions they had already been. But in the finale "what we're leading up to is breaking a rule," Guggenheim says. "That's what the Legends are going to do. It's a little bit of our homage to Back to the Future 2, with a Legends-esque spin. It has major consequences."

"Things are going to get really bad, " Caity Lotz (Sara) says. "They are going to have to do some things they shouldn't be doing. They're going to have to break some rules and go against their own codes. The finale is the biggest episode we've ever done."

The Lance sisters will reunite on Legends of Tomorrow.

Guggenheim shared on social media that Katie Cassidy would be reprising her role of Laurel Lance in the Legends finale, and he says the scene was a long time coming. "I have to give a shout-out to Katie Cassidy," Guggenheim says. "It's only one scene, but man, she's spectacular in it. It's a scene we've wanted to do since the beginning of the season. We really wanted to get Sara and Laurel back together."

"It was wonderful," adds Lotz. "Katie and I hadn't been able to do a scene together in years. She feels like my sister now, so it was very emotional, nostalgic, and I think people will really like it."

But will Laurel pop up on any of the other DC shows before the season concludes? "I can say absolutely nothing," Guggenheim says.

 

[Sakura12]

I'm happy to get confirmation that it's only one scene. I was worried I'd have to put up with watching Laurel again. 

[Proteus]

New team members coming. Sigh:

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/paleyfest-2017-11-things-to-expect-on-the-flash-supergirl-arrow-and-legends-of-tomorrow/

 

1. SEASON THREE OF LEGENDS ADDING AN EXISTING DC CHARACTER

Legends of Tomorrow showrunner Phil Klemmer told Rotten Tomatoes on the red carpet that season 3 will reboot the Waverider with some new Legends, just like the team did in the beginning of season 2. Producer Marc Guggenheim revealed that one of those newbies is pre-existing, but with a catch.

“We’re drawing on an established character who is not from the comics,” Guggenheim said. “Let me be very clear: not original to the show but not from the comics and not from any of the other DC Arrowverse shows.”

Perhaps it’s time to start watching other DC-based movies and TV shows that invented original characters to narrow down who might be the new hero poised to join the team. “That’s what I would do,” Guggenheim suggested.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Proteus

[Sakura12]

Quote

“We’re drawing on an established character who is not from the comics,” Guggenheim said. “Let me be very clear: not original to the show but not from the comics and not from any of the other DC Arrowverse shows.”

Chloe Sullivan is joining the show. But she fits their criteria. Shes's a pre-existing original character from another DC show. Lol. Sorry, I just watched an episode of Smallville.

I just hope it's a woman. We have enough male characters, I don't know what rule says there can only be 2 females on these CWDC shows. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

It's Gideon. Or does the "not original to the show" part rule that out? I guess the "established character" but "not original to the show" part is throwing me.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

I liked Gideon. That should be fun when she starts giving out answers to complicated calculations and they have to introduce her as their AI. 

Their wording is a little strange because they said not original to their show, which technically Gideon originated on the Flash but they also say not from the other DC shows. Which I guess LoT Gideon is not from the other DC shows. 

[Proteus]

4 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

It's Gideon.

But wasn't  Gideon created for the Arrowverse?

Nate better be one of the exits to make room. If he stays and Rip goes...just ugh.

[Starfish35]

Didn't Nick Zano already say he was staying?

[Proteus]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Didn't Nick Zano already say he was staying?

My hope is he was either lying or he will get axed at the beginning of season 3.

[Lokiberry]

Sounds like Constantine to me.

ETA: nope, can't be him because he's from the comics.

ETAA: It's either an historical figure or a character from a non comic work of fiction.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Lokiberry

[squidprincess]

I wonder if it'd be someone like Terry McGinness.   Being a Batman from a different time period might get around the obvious obstacles in using the concept.

[feverfew]

8 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Chloe Sullivan is joining the show. But she fits their criteria. Shes's a pre-existing original character from another DC show. Lol. Sorry, I just watched an episode of Smallville.

I just hope it's a woman. We have enough male characters, I don't know what rule says there can only be 2 females on these CWDC shows. 

Oh, Chloe on the show would be a dream (...but then I'd want Justin Hartley's Green Arrow to show up too). But yes to a woman.

Personally I would like Constantine and Zatanna to stay on the Waverider for an arc (Zatanna as cross promotion for Gothan Sirens perhaps?)

Edited March 20, 2017 by feverfew
Because I'm an idiot who can't read: Removed my speculation out of embaressment.

[Proteus]

MG saying to look at other DC movies and tv shows to figure it out IMO means it's no one whose been on this show or Arrow or Flash before.

[squidprincess]

This is probably awful of me, but I really hope it isn't Harley Quinn.  She'd fit.  She's original to the Batman Animated Universe.  She's been in Suicide Squad, and she's undeniably popular.  But I've never cared for her, and I really would prefer almost anyone else.

[Sakura12]

I highly doubt it would be Harley Quinn, they can't use anyone popular from the Bat Family.