Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[squidprincess]

13 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Honestly, I don't expect much more than that but I can hope.  I think Rip has a unique voice so even if they kept Nate, he would work, but I just worry that the budget won't stretch for him if they can get away without him.  But maybe reoccurring?   

I have only the barest idea of how these things work, but I think they're paying Darvill regardless of whether or not they actually use him on the show.  

And I can't see how Rip as a character would be more expensive than Firestorm, the Atom suit, or Amaya and Nate's special effects.  Unless that's one hell of a coat.  :-)

Edited November 14, 2016 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

Maybe Rip is going to try and rebuild the Time Masters. He'll be the Time Commander, Time General or whatever the top guy is called. Then instead of going solo like they used they will have teams. Sara being the Captain of the first new group of Time Master, then Rip can find another person to lead another team and so on. Or after awhile someone from the Legends can become a Captain and lead their own team.  

[BkWurm1]

I really am not digging the costume Nate is wearing in the Crossover promos.  

[Primal Slayer]

The comic version is nothing to write home about either but at least improve upon it. 

[MarkHB]

The CW has released the episode descriptions for the Invasion! crossover.  Here is the one for LoT:

Quote

ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL IN THIS CROSSOVER OF SUPERHEROS — After learning the Dominators’ plan for the world, the Legends must work together with The Flash (guest star Grant Gustin), Supergirl (guest star Melissa Benoist) and Green Arrow (guest star Stephen Amell) to kill them once and for all. Meanwhile, Stein (Victor Garber) figures out, with the help of others, how the team can terminate the Dominators, but is distracted by the aberration he realizes he created in 1987. Brandon Routh, Franz Drameh, Dominic Purcell, Maisie Richardson-Sellers, Nick Zano and Caity Lotz also star. Gregory Smith directed the episode written by Phil Klemmer & Marc Guggenheim (#207). Original airdate 12/1/2016.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 hours ago, MarkHB said:

Meanwhile, Stein (Victor Garber) figures out, with the help of others, how the team can terminate the Dominators, but is distracted by the aberration he realizes he created in 1987.

I predict that when Stein told his younger self to cherish Clarissa more, they wound up creating a child, and Stein is now a father!

[Sakura12]

Sneak peek, this episode looks like so much fun. 

[kismet]

21 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I predict that when Stein told his younger self to cherish Clarissa more, they wound up creating a child, and Stein is now a father!

I would love to see Stein's take on fatherhood. I also wonder if that person then becomes important to the Flarrowverse. I would also love to see it be a daughter. 1. Because I wanna see SpyDaddy resurrection and 2. The Flarrowverse writers owe it to the audience after what they did to Sara Diggle.

[CabotCove]

Still no new promo for 2x07?

And why does it feel like the crossover will be 2x07 not 2x08?

 

Quote

I would also love to see it be a daughter. 

The Flarrowverse writers owe it to the audience after what they did to Sara Diggle.

Agree, it might be a bit of a consolation.

Edited November 18, 2016 by HeroLeague

[Sakura12]

The LoT crossover is 2x07. 

2x08 is the Chicago episode with Barrowman and Wentworth. 

[Starfish35]

Sneak peak from the crossover (Flash episode) - the team meets Supergirl. 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/18/flash-arrow-legends-tomorrow-supergirl-crossover-video

[MarkHB]

43 minutes ago, HeroLeague said:

Still no new promo for 2x07?

And why does it feel like the crossover will be 2x07 not 2x08?

There's no new episode next Thursday because the bulk of the audience will be digesting tryptophans.

[CabotCove]

Quote

The LoT crossover is 2x07.

2x08 is the Chicago episode with Barrowman and Wentworth. 

OK thanks, got it now.

You too, MarkHB

Edited November 18, 2016 by HeroLeague

[squidprincess]

I don't know if anyone else will be happy to hear this, but this clip from the Rhode Island Comic Con seems to indicate that Rip will be back.  There is another clip from the same event where he talks briefly about filming this season and it certainly sounds like he's talking about having filmed more than one episode, but I can't seem to find the link for it.

(ETA: found it.)

Edited November 21, 2016 by squidprincess

[Starfish35]

I will be glad to have him back.  I know I wasn't his biggest fan last year, but I do think the show is missing something, losing both AD and WM at the same time.

I am a bit nervous about how the leadership issue will be handled with him and Sara.  Sara being leader has been one of my favorite things about this season, but hopefully they'll resolve that in a way that works for everyone.

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, squidprincess said:

I don't know if anyone else will be happy to hear this, but this clip from the Rhode Island Comic Con seems to indicate that Rip will be back.  There is another clip from the same event where he talks briefly about filming this season and it certainly sounds like he's talking about having filmed more than one episode, but I can't seem to find the link for it.

(ETA: found it.)

Thanks so much for posting. This is very good news for Rip fans.

My hope Starfish is that Sara either remains leader or they become co leaders.

[Sakura12]

I knew he'd be back, so that's not really news to me. If he wasn't they would've announced that. 

I just wasn't missing him. I think the team flows together better then they did last season. I also hope he doesn't come back and  take being Captain away from Sara. She's better suited for that job. With Rip back I'd rather they get rid of Nate. Rip is a better historian. 

[squidprincess]

Honestly, I'd be very surprised if they chose to go any route but co-captains.  They've spent a lot of effort building Sara up as a natural and capable leader of the team.  At worst, I'd imagine her giving the center seat back to Rip but finding herself in a command role with the others by default.  Basically, a de facto first officer position, if not co-captain.

I don't think they could go full on subordinate with Rip, because even if he decided to take her orders, there's still an unspoken implication that he could take back over.  No one knows the Waverider like he does (even with Jax's six month training course), and Gideon isn't likely to choose anyone else over him.  But he's only ever really been a commander by default, not nature.  It's his quest and expertise, so he called the shots, but he never really seemed to enjoy it like she does.

That said, it could be pretty hilarious if he does try to be her subordinate, because Rip isn't really any better at taking orders than the rest of his team is.  As Druce and the Time Masters can attest.

I think I'm okay with any outcome, as long as there isn't some kind of major power struggle.  I think that would be a disservice to both characters and their respective personalities.  Besides, I think they respect each other too much for something like that.

Edited November 21, 2016 by squidprincess

[lurker22]

Will the rest of the team even want to follow Rip's orders at this point? They've seen what Sara can do as a leader for a while now, and their missions are generally successful.

I doubt there will be a power struggle. If Rip wants the Captain chair back, I believe Sara will just let him have it. OTOH, I think Rip will see what a good job Sara has done/is doing as leader, and I think he won't fight her for the leadership role. He didn't seem to enjoy it much anyway. So they'll probably end up as co-leaders.

[squidprincess]

I think it depends on how the characters see the mission.  It's hard to say that Sara's missions are "more successful" when we're comparing them to the first season which had a different, far more specific goal.  "Killing Vandal Savage" vs. "Preserving the timeline."

We only saw one of the time preservation missions that Rip led in the six months between seasons.  That seemed to go reasonably well, though Rip had frustrations.  It's hard to measure "success" though.  Rip's mission, that we saw, led to the proper conception of a historical figure.  One of Sara's involved a historical figure dying ten years early, solely through the team's actions without an external aberration in sight.  But we haven't seen any negative fallout from that, so Rip might well consider that a qualified success too.  

Rip also seemed to have kept a better eye on the team's attempts to alter their own personal timelines.  Martin, Snart, Mick, and Jax had all either accidentally or actually attempted to change their pasts.  But we didn't see anything like what happened to Martin this time.  (To be fair, I don't think Rip would have had any better luck than Sara at actually stopping Martin, but I think he might have monitored more closely and been able to identify the after effects.)  Sara, on the other hand, has been better at keeping more of them alive.  :-)

Since Rip is the actual Time Master here, and it's his quest and initiative, as well as his ship, I think they would follow him again if he wanted to take the Captain's chair.  He's the only reason any of them are mucking about in time at all.  But I'm sure they prefer Sara as an actual field commander, with Rip's role being more directive:   Here's the problem, here's what we need to do, here's what we need to prevent.  Oh god, what have you done to the timeline now?

And really, I bet that's how it'll shake out no matter which of them actually keeps the title of "Captain".

Edited November 21, 2016 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

I guess Rip can take the Captain seat back while Sara will be the field commander. Captain Rip's in charge of the Waverider and the time travel rules, while Commander Sara plans the missions and delegates the roles to everyone including Rip. 

Or maybe Rip is finding another group of lovable losers to travel through time with, so they have 2 teams. He leads one and Sara leads another. Restarting the Time Masters. 

[MarkHB]

I could readily see Sara being Number One to Rip, except that I can't imagine Rip wanting to stay on the Waverider for missions (i.e., he's more a Kirk than a Picard).

[KirkB]

Maybe it'll be as simple as Rip is in charge when they're on the ship and Sara is in charge when they're off?

Edited November 21, 2016 by KirkB

[squidprincess]

It's not like the team doesn't split up as it is.  It might just be a matter of Rip leading part of the team to accomplish one objective, while Sara leads the other part to accomplish the other objective.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Portion of Arrow panel with Amy Gumenick, Bex Taylor Klaus, Echo Kellum and Neal McDonough at HVFF-Atlanta on Nov. 20 (video posted by venusnep55)...

 

-- On whether Darhk accepts his fate or wants to change it, when Sara told him his fate on LoT, NM:

  Reveal hidden contents

"No, I gotta change it. So when I get to Legends, a couple episodes from now... the Legion of Doom is finally coming together! So, yeah, I'm gonna fix my death. There's no way - you can't kill Damien Darhk. Can you kill Damien Darhk? (Audience yells, 'No') ... So with me and Barrowman and Matthew, uh, I will guarantee you this - you will have a smile on your face watching the second half of the season on Legends, cause it gets really mean and fun and it's - I'm having the best time. I loved being on Arrow, I love being on - I love all of them. What John and I are doing now is just - we're literally getting away with murder, and we're having a good time doing it."

So DD is going to attempt to change his future..so that should make enough of a difference to change S4 slightly. It won't most likely in the long run but technically it should.

[Sakura12]

Title for ep 11: "Turncoat"

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/801117289646936064

[lurker22]

Based on the new 2-minute trailer, and the synopsis/promo pics of Arrow, I wonder if Oliver's AU reality also includes Thea, Ray, Sara and Diggle. They're the ones we see in the trailer dressed in the grey clothes at the Dominators pod-like place. And they're the ones shown in the Arrow promo pics. Given that Laurel is also in the episode, and we see Sara with her, and in one shot, it looks as if they're saying goodbye, I want this AU to be more than just Oliver's. I want Sara to be aware of it as well, so she can get some closure with losing her sister, even though it's not real.

Maybe the AU is Dominators' way of keeping them under their influence. They get to experience their deepest desires - Oliver never getting on the Gambit and being with his parents and someone he love(d), Sara never getting on the Gambit and being with her sister, Ray being in love (with Felicity, I guess). Not sure about Thea and Diggle.

There's also a very short clip of what looks like Arrow fighting the White Canary. Wonder what that's about. If this happens on Arrow, then I think Oliver's going to win, since Oliver ultimately wins all the fights on that show. Realistically, I think Sara would give him a run for his money, with 7 years of LoA training under her belt.

[squidprincess]

I am curious about "Turncoat".  I could see it going a couple of different ways: a bad guy turns good (maybe Snart?  Since he's a Legion of Doom member.), or a good guy turns bad.  Maybe my irrational suspicion of Nate actually will turn out accurate.  Or maybe Rip, since he's supposed to not quite be the character the others remember, will be convinced to betray the group.  (For example, if Rip has amnesia or is from an altered timeline, it might be fairly easy to convince him that the team is far bigger threat to the timeline than the people they're trying to stop.)

It seems like there are a lot of interesting possibilities.

Edited November 26, 2016 by squidprincess

[BkWurm1]

Quote

There's also a very short clip of what looks like Arrow fighting the White Canary.

I read in one of the interviews that they are doing a take on Marvel's Civil War.  It sounded like the aliens might temporarily turn the team against each other?  

[MarkHB]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I read in one of the interviews that they are doing a take on Marvel's Civil War.  It sounded like the aliens might temporarily turn the team against each other?  

Comics spoiler:

Spoiler

In the comics, the Dominators have mind control powers. 

There's also a new promo clip that has White Canary fighting Deathstroke.

[tv echo]

SHOOT: LEGENDS OF TOMORROW Time-Travels to American Revolution. Filming in Delta’s North 40 Reserve Park
By Susan Gittins November 23, 2016  
http://yvrshoots.com/2016/11/shoot-legends-of-tomorrow-time-travels-to-american-revolution-filming-in-deltas-north-40-reserve-park.html

[tv echo]

Legends Of Tomorrow Is Bringing A Big Character Back, But Not How You Think
BY LAURA HURLEY   November 25, 2016
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1589280/legends-of-tomorrow-is-bringing-a-big-character-back-but-not-how-you-think#.WDcbZ_Rdt50.twitter

Legends of Tomorrow changed the superhero scene on The CW in a big way when it premiered earlier this year since it, unlike Arrow with Oliver Queen and The Flash with Barry Allen, revolves around a heroic ensemble. Maisie Richardson-Sellers joined that ensemble as comic heroine Vixen for Season 2, and she recently spoke to CinemaBlend about what we can expect in the coming months. When asked about a possible future for Rip Hunter on Legends of Tomorrow, she told me this:

"He does come back, just not necessarily the Rip that we remember. That's sort of what is a big part of the second half of the season."

*  *  *
As it turns out, Rip Hunter isn't even the only past character who will return in the second half of Legends of Tomorrow Season 2. I asked Maisie Richardson-Sellers whether we could count on seeing any more of Vixen's teammates from the Justice Society of America, and she gave me this answer:

"There is someone coming back. That's all I can say, that there is someone coming back you will see in the next episode we're shooting, that's...12."

[squidprincess]

I wonder who the JSA return is.  Obsidian maybe?  Or Rex?  I'd be happier to see Obsidian, to be honest.

Edited November 27, 2016 by squidprincess

[ottoDbusdriver]

13 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

I wonder who the JSA return is.  Obsidian maybe?  Or Rex?  I'd be happier to see Obsidian, to be honest.

I guess it depends what time they are in -- since we've already encountered an older version of Obsidian in the 80s, maybe they will encounter Hourman (before he was killed) or Stargirl.

[Proteus]

The Rip part of her interview is interesting. I wonder how he's different.

[Lokiberry]

On 11/26/2016 at 0:29 AM, squidprincess said:

I am curious about "Turncoat".  I could see it going a couple of different ways: a bad guy turns good (maybe Snart?  Since he's a Legion of Doom member.), or a good guy turns bad.  Maybe my irrational suspicion of Nate actually will turn out accurate.  Or maybe Rip, since he's supposed to not quite be the character the others remember, will be convinced to betray the group.  (For example, if Rip has amnesia or is from an altered timeline, it might be fairly easy to convince him that the team is far bigger threat to the timeline than the people they're trying to stop.)

It seems like there are a lot of interesting possibilities.

Is Turncoat the American Revolution episode? If so, it probably refers to Benedict Arnold. It might also have a double meaning and refer to one of the crew. Unfortunately, that would point to Rip, although it would make me gleefully happy if it was Nate.

[squidprincess]

28 minutes ago, Lokiberry said:

Is Turncoat the American Revolution episode? If so, it probably refers to Benedict Arnold. It might also have a double meaning and refer to one of the crew. Unfortunately, that would point to Rip, although it would make me gleefully happy if it was Nate.

I was thinking about this, and I'm tentatively thinking it probably won't be Rip.  I mean, it could plausibly be him, if, as Richardson says, he's not the same person we remember.  But to me, "Turncoat" implies someone who's currently on their side, that they currently rely on, is going to change sides.

They've already had their plot where they learn to function as a team without him.  I don't know that having him return and then turn on the group would have as much impact as if it were one of the characters we'd been seeing every day.

But that could just be wishful thinking.  I would really like it to be Nate, not because I dislike him.  But because if Nate were a spy or traitor, maybe he would finally make sense.  (His incompetence might be because his backstory is a lie, or because he's trying to sabotage the group.)  I don't want to get rid of Nate, I would love a plot where he ultimately decides he likes being a good guy better, I just want him to make sense.

[MarkHB]

Every new time period they hit, I find myself wondering if they'll encounter any of the established DC characters.  For "The Chicago Way," they could easily put in Slam Bradley (hardboiled private eye who was featured in Detective Comics #1, 2 years before Batman), or if they wanted to go with a costumed hero the Crimson Avenger would work.  For "Turncoat," there was Tomahawk. (Hey, if you actually have a Revolutionary War character to work with...)

[squidprincess]

Well, I'm happy.

I have no idea what the context will be, but this has made my day.

[BkWurm1]

Rip set up an emergency time scatter for the rest of the crew, but I wonder if the one for him took away his memory?  Maybe they find him and he doesn't know them.  Maybe the reason they couldn't find him by looking for out of place stuff in history was because when he randomly was sent out, he got some version of a brainwash and thought he was part of the actual timeline and thus couldn't make any mistakes?  

[Sakura12]

Maybe they meet a Rip before he knew them? When he was a loyal Time Master.

[BkWurm1]

14 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Maybe they meet a Rip before he knew them? When he was a loyal Time Master.

Certainly a possibility but then it opens up a lot of questions like why didn't he know them better when he picked them up the first time around?  And why would he skip Nate and Amaya and not really want Mr. Rory?  

[tarotx]

‘DC’s Legends Of Tomorrow’ Adds Christina Brucato As Recurring

http://deadline.com/2016/11/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-christina-brucato-the-flash-crossover-1201860555/

Quote

Christina Brucato has landed a recurring role on the CW’s DC’s Legends of Tomorrow.  She’ll play the role of Lily Stein, a character introduced in tonight’s The Flash crossover “Invasion” episode.

 

[yellowfred]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Rip set up an emergency time scatter for the rest of the crew, but I wonder if the one for him took away his memory?  Maybe they find him and he doesn't know them.  Maybe the reason they couldn't find him by looking for out of place stuff in history was because when he randomly was sent out, he got some version of a brainwash and thought he was part of the actual timeline and thus couldn't make any mistakes?  

It's also possible that he didn't do anything obvious enough for Nate to notice.  Like, Ray was living at a time well before human beings should have been around, Jax and Stein were waving around an iPhone in a medieval court, and Sara maybe started a harem in colonial Salem.  Rip would probably blend in significantly better than that.  Also, Nate was the one finding the historical anomalies, and we've since established that he's actually a pretty terrible historian, so maybe he's just missed Rip's version of a "come get me" sign.

[BkWurm1]

I'm also trying to explain why Rip is returning in an episode called "Turncoat"  Not ominous or anything.

 

2 hours ago, tarotx said:

‘DC’s Legends Of Tomorrow’ Adds Christina Brucato As Recurring

http://deadline.com/2016/11/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-christina-brucato-the-flash-crossover-1201860555/

And once again, major reveals happen in another show in the Flarrowverse.  

Yep, Stein has a daughter.  

[Sakura12]

Well to be fair they showed us Stein having flashes of who was obviously his daughter on LoT. They just spelled it out to those who didn't guess it on The Flash. 

Is the team going to have to face evil again Snart and evil Rip? That should be interesting, hopefully they are both done better than makes no sense to suddenly be evil Caitlin. 

[squidprincess]

I admit, if we do have a (hopefully only temporarily) evil Rip, I would love to see a fight scene between him and Sara.  She's the better fighter, but he's a lot better than anyone tends to give him credit for.  And if she's stuck holding back so as not to kill her former friend/captain, then that might just make it a really interesting match.

I wonder if he's actually amnesiac, or if he's undercover with the British army to accomplish some timeline related purpose.  Because well, the British army is supposed to lose in the end.  If he is actually attempting to change that, then he might be at cross-purposes with the Legends.

[Sakura12]

I just read the article about Stein's daughter and remembered why she looked familiar. She played young Lolly on Orange is the New Black. She did a great job imitating Lori Petty. 

[kirinan]

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Is the team going to have to face evil again Snart and evil Rip? That should be interesting, hopefully they are both done better than makes no sense to suddenly be evil Caitlin. 

I'm guessing so--at least in Snart's case--because they made such a point of having Ray mention that he died a hero on last night's Flash crossover ep. Dun, dun, DUUUUUNNNNNNN...foreshadowing. So how could he not be bad Snart again? Too much potential for drama, now that Mick is one of the good guys, for these angst-obsessed writers to pass up. I'll take him any way I can get him, and I'll just tell myself he turned good once and could do it again. Not that it will happen onscreen with Wentworth Miller being only an occasional guest, but I'll go write a fic or something where it happens, LOL.

I don't think Rip will be evil, though. Just different. Nothing to base that on but a gut feeling.

Edited November 30, 2016 by kirinan

[MarkHB]

9 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm also trying to explain why Rip is returning in an episode called "Turncoat"  Not ominous or anything.

 

And once again, major reveals happen in another show in the Flarrowverse.  

Yep, Stein has a daughter.  

AND they played all of Barry's Sekrit Mesige as well!  It made sense story-wise but was otherwise aggravating as hell.

I also don't think Rip will be evil.