S04.E06: Close Up

[Betweenyouandme]

When Hannah talked about a job where she could help people...after just going to the mental health professional...I thought she was going to try to be a counselor....and I was going to die.

[FozzyBear]

I think people thought Mimi-Rose had moved in (myself included) because of a bunch of little stuff, not anything explicit. For me it was the combo of MR answering the door, Adam putting Hannah's stuff in storage, the remodeling of the apartment, Hannah leaving at the end of the day instead of Adam. It seemed like they were living there together.

After this episode I feel like I'm being forced to live through Jessa 2.0 with MR. LD really has a fascination with confusing "independent" and "selfcentered"

[politichick]

But don't people answer the door sometimes at their significant other's? And he can't entertain women with Hannah's stuff all around, and why would he want to share space with it if she's going to be in Iowa?

Also, Cardigirl, Jessa was supposed to be Hannah's friend, not Adam's. Which is why her hooking him up with someone is all kinds of wrong and something she damn well knew would hurt Hannah.

[FozzyBear]

But don't people answer the door sometimes at their significant other's? And he can't entertain women with Hannah's stuff all around, and why would he want to share space with it if she's going to be in Iowa?

Also, Cardigirl, Jessa was supposed to be Hannah's friend, not Adam's. Which is why her hooking him up with someone is all kinds of wrong and something she damn well knew would hurt Hannah.

Well as I said, it was a combination of things. Answering the door by itself doesn't mean much, but all the little things gave the impression to a lot of people that MR was living there.

[iggysaurus]

I can't relate to the people cheering Mimi-Rose for being so blase (and in my view, cold) about the abortion. (Not meaning anyone specific on this board, just a general sentiment I've seen across the internet.)  I'm absolutely pro-choice and don't think any woman should need "permission" from the father, but at the same time, when two people are supposedly in a loving relationship (even if it's not an extremely long term one, but maybe will become one), open communication is a good thing.  The attitude that the pregnancy had literally nothing to do with Adam is, IMO, unfair.  He created it equally with her. That doesn't mean he can say she has to have the baby, of course.  But it does affect him and he has a right to have emotions about it.  They're living together, they're in a sexual relationship together, this happened to them together.  Ultimately it's her body/choice, but I certainly don't think it's ideal for it to be not even mentioned to the father. Or, if she really doesn't want him to even know about it, for whatever reasons, then why mention it after the fact?  And furthermore, if she WAS going to mention it after the fact, why not at least bring it up in a sensitive way like, "Hey, there's something I want to tell you, and I hope you understand why I kept it from you until after it was over."  Not just, "Oh I can't go running because I had an abortion yesterday" and then pretend to be absolutely oblivious to why that would be a big deal to him!

 

I dunno, this is definitely something that we all have our own personal perspectives on, and I'm not saying my attitude is the "right" one, but I can't relate to that decision not being a big deal and being something you do repeatedly, without sharing feelings/options with the person you're currently sharing your life with.  It's not about "needing" the other person or getting permission, it's about communication and mutual support.  

Edited February 24, 2015 by iggysaurus

[FozzyBear]

I can't relate to the people cheering Mimi-Rose for being so blase (and in my view, cold) about the abortion. (Not meaning anyone specific on this board, just a general sentiment I've seen across the internet.) I'm absolutely pro-choice and don't think any woman should need "permission" from the father, but at the same time, when two people are supposedly in a loving relationship (even if it's not an extremely long term one, but maybe will become one), open communication is a good thing. The attitude that the pregnancy had literally nothing to do with Adam is, IMO, unfair. He created it equally with her. That doesn't mean he can say she has to have the baby, of course. But it does affect him and he has a right to have emotions about it. They're living together, they're in a sexual relationship together, this happened to them together. Ultimately it's her body/choice, but I certainly don't think it's ideal for it to be not even mentioned to the father. Or, if she really doesn't want him to even know about it, for whatever reasons, then why mention it after the fact? And furthermore, if she WAS going to mention it after the fact, why not at least bring it up in a sensitive way like, "Hey, there's something I want to tell you, and I hope you understand why I kept it from you until after it was over." Not just, "Oh I can't go running because I had an abortion yesterday" and then pretend to be absolutely oblivious to why that would be a big deal to him!

I dunno, this is definitely something that we all have our own personal perspectives on, and I'm not saying my attitude is the "right" one, but I can't relate to that decision not being a big deal and being something you do repeatedly, without sharing feelings/options with the person you're currently sharing your life with. It's not about "needing" the other person or getting permission, it's about communication and mutual support.

Yeah it felt like she was gaslighting him a little and goading him into a bigger reaction that he might have had by refusing to take his feelings seriously. It was just weird. Like a conversation I might have with a guy I had a one night stand with and ran into 5 years after the fact, not somebody I was in a serious relationship with. I agree that I don't think she even had to tell him (although a conversation about their safe sex practices might be in order) but the way she did tell him was sort of smug and bitchy and self-righteous. Which is not the same thing as independent.

[iggysaurus]

It was just weird. Like a conversation I might have with a guy I had a one night stand with and ran into 5 years after the fact, not somebody I was in a serious relationship with.

 

Yeah, I think that's what's bothering me about it. If it was portrayed as Mimi having an abortion from a one night stand or someone she had no current, positive relationship with, it would've made sense for her to treat it that way. I could see where she had no reason to talk about it with him. But the person you're currently living with and by all indications happy with?  Sure, you don't HAVE to mention it to him or be sensitive about it, but why wouldn't you want to?  I would want a guy to share important things with me too, whether or not it directly affected our potential procreation together.

[AlliMo]

"Smug" is a pretty apt description for Mimi-Rose imo. So far she's only been in two episodes and I find her unbearable.

 

Jessa isn't a bad friend for introducing Adam to a new girl. She's a bad friend because she's a borderline sociopath that genuinely doesn't care even a tiny bit about other people or their feelings.

[Bandolero]

I read a lot of opinions about Jessa's role in Adam's new relationship, but the only thing I fault Jessa for is lying to Hannah that she was certain she had told Hannah about introducing Mimi Rose to Adam.  Jessa is going to meetings with Adam, seeing his pain about Hannah leaving and she decided to make an introduction.  I don't see that as evil, but probably choosing to help a friend.

 

Friends do not set up their friend's CURRENT boyfriend with another woman. No matter how this is spun... it is just a fucked up thing to do. Let Adam find his own woman. Why would you ever be party to your friend being hurt in that way? Furthermore, Jessa did not do this in a pragmatic kind of way. It was obvious that she got off on hurting Hannah because Hannah had the audacity to move away for the workshop (hence the lying about having told Hannah and the "play with clit" comment). Jessa was defensive as heck cause she knew she was foul. 

 

I have friends who have moved away for jobs, school, husbands, etc. and it would be so childish of me to be angry at them for living their lives. I went off to college in a different state and I had a boyfriend at the time and we were able to make it through. It's called life. If Adam felt so deserted by Hannah that he was able to move on with another woman like in a month... then he should have had the balls to break if off with her. 

Edited February 25, 2015 by Bandolero

[cardigirl]

Also, Cardigirl, Jessa was supposed to be Hannah's friend, not Adam's. Which is why her hooking him up with someone is all kinds of wrong and something she damn well knew would hurt Hannah.

The way Jessa has been portrayed, I don't think the character would view it that way.  I really don't think she was trying to devise a way to hurt Hannah, but rather was, from her point of view, trying to help Adam.

 

I think she even said something to Adam about being his friend. Then she peed in the street and got arrested and Adam said he couldn't hang with her because he didn't need that in is life.  If a guy is going to find someone else, he's going to do it regardless.  It's not like he wouldn't have found someone else if he hadn't been introduced to Mimi Rose. 

 

I think where Jessa was wrong was in not being open with Hannah about it.  I could see her being shunned for that. 

 

I dunno, I just dislike blaming the relationship on Jessa, when two other people were involved.  Adam didn't have to pursue Mimi Rose.  He's not a helpless little boy. 

Edited February 25, 2015 by cardigirl

[The Solution]

That resume? Oberlin College is in Ohio, not New York.

 

Also, Desi and Marnie's music is badussy.

[Kat From Jersey]

Hannah as a teacher in NYC...those kids are going to eat her up alive...that being said any storyline where Hannah is tore down and told the brutal truth about herself i'm all for...

 

I'm not sure what to think of Elijah and the reasons he came crawling back to NYC...he is a mess of epic proportions...

 

 

My daughter, who is currently slaving away looking for a permanent teaching job, was incensed that Hannah would be able to just walk into a school and get a teaching job!  It was actually kind of funny.

 

Elijah... hmm.  He's tied with Adam for my favorite character (okay, Ray is in there too... I seem to like the guys on this show a *lot* more than the girls, and spend a lot more time thinking about their lives while watching), and he does provide a lot of much-needed comic relief, but what's his deal in life?. He doesn't seem to have a job, since he dropped everything to join Hannah in Iowa.  Maybe he has family money.  Does he do anything with his life other than mooch off Hannah (okay, the cereal scene was pretty funny), waste time on the internet, pick up straight/curious guys at parties, or walk around in his underwear scratching his balls?  I guess I just adore Andrew Rannells (and, to be honest, enjoy looking at him & his undies), but he and Hannah are such enablers for each other.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Kat From Jersey

[geauxtee]

My daughter, who is currently slaving away looking for a permanent teaching job, was incensed that Hannah would be able to just walk into a school and get a teaching job!  It was actually kind of funny.

 

I know! I'm a teacher in the South, but I used to visit a lot of teaching message boards. There were some teachers in the Northeast who had been job searching for years. Like people saying, "I have been subbing for 5 years, will it ever happen for me?" So the fact that Hannah can walk into a school and get hired is over-the-top crazy.

[Hecate7]

My daughter, who is currently slaving away looking for a permanent teaching job, was incensed that Hannah would be able to just walk into a school and get a teaching job!  It was actually kind of funny.

 

Elijah... hmm.  He's tied with Adam for my favorite character (okay, Ray is in there too... I seem to like the guys on this show a *lot* more than the girls, and spend a lot more time thinking about their lives while watching), and he does provide a lot of much-needed comic relief, but what's his deal in life?. He doesn't seem to have a job, since he dropped everything to join Hannah in Iowa.  Maybe he has family money.  Does he do anything with his life other than mooch off Hannah (okay, the cereal scene was pretty funny), waste time on the internet, pick up straight/curious guys at parties, or walk around in his underwear scratching his balls?  I guess I just adore Andrew Rannells (and, to be honest, enjoy looking at him & his undies), but he and Hannah are such enablers for each other.

 

Either he's got family money, or he's a drug dealer of sorts. I suspect the latter, because of his attitude towards parties, which is that he HAS to go to them. Has to. He's as serious about parties as most people are about work.

[FozzyBear]

That resume? Oberlin College is in Ohio, not New York.

Also, Desi and Marnie's music is badussy.

Yeah that was strange. Its pretty common knowledge that Oberlin is in Ohio. Maybe that was just a production error?

Also, Hannah. No one is going to be impressed that you dropped out of a prestigious MFA program. Just leave it off. It reminds me once of I kid a interviewed that put on his resume both that he was accepted to USC(but didn't go) and the semester he did at a CSU before dropping out. I politely told him to reconsider adding his impressive drop out list because it made him look like a douchebag. I used nicer language.

Edited February 25, 2015 by FozzyBear

[racked]

THIS! Jessa knew it was a messed up thing to do and this is after Jessa because she was mad that Hannah was leaving for school ignored her before she left and was  very passive-aggressive towards her when Hannah asked about how she has blown her off. Hannah was trying to make time to see her before she left but Jessa decided she was mad so she would ignore her. Then she decided to set up Adam with a new girl, she knows who Hannah is and what it would mean for her. A good friend would not do this.  

 

Jessa really is the worst. And she never feels bad for anything she does! I know this is just part of the character, but it's frustrating that no one ever calls her on it and she never really faces any consequences. So now that Hannah is back does she not "need" Adam's friendship as badly as she did? 

 

Regarding teaching, I have some friends who started teaching at local Catholic schools straight out of college with a BA and no education experience and I live in NYC. They're paid horribly, which is saying something because public teachers here aren't paid well either. I also give the show a little dramatic license with these sort of things, because they want to keep the plot moving. 

[Lone Wolf]

Marc Maron!

Nice touch.

[SourK]

I'm okay with Mimi Rose as a character, but I'm not sure about Gillian Jacobs in the role. Something just feels off to me.

 

My big question, after watching this episode, is whether it's going to be possible for Girls to entertain the idea that Adam could be better off with someone who's not Hannah, or if we're being set up for a thing where he realizes Hannah was right for him all along because she's needy and he digs on neediness. I have no problem believing the show could decide that Hannah is better off without Adam -- I'm just not sure if it's willing to show him being happy and mature and growing as a person when/because he's with somebody else.

 

As others have said -- I am shocked at how few qualifications someone needs to teach. Where I live (Canada), you have to have a BEd to teach in public schools (even as a sub), but I just looked it up and, apparantly, at private schools you just need whatever. As someone else said upthread, I'm surprised that, if you're paying that much money for your kids to go to school, you wouldn't mind that the teachers just have random qualifications. Blows my mind.

 

Looking at Hannah's CV, though, I think it's kind of neat that a piece of paper that was on TV for two seconds actually seems to show the chronology of the jobs we saw her work. Makes me think about the props department and all the effort they put into little things like that.

[Hecate7]

Well, America isn't Finland. People have to pay so much to go to school, and teachers make so little money here, that it doesn't really make sense at all to require a lot of school for teachers. Ironic, but there you have it.

 

I loved Shoshanna trying to tell the job interviewer that she had had an "actual job" when really she hasn't. Hannah's got better job experience.

[Maya]

I am surprised no one has mentioned how hostile and psychotic Shoshanna was in that interview! Did she not know she was marketing soup before she got there?? Why even go to the interview if you despise the product so much?

Let's just say she didn't realize she despised the soup until she got there... Who acts like that??

[Hecate7]

She's interviewing amazingly badly. She had that one incredible interview where she was hired on the spot, and ever since she's been argumentative, defensive, and combative with interviewers.

[bunnywithanaxe]

Yes to all that, but also funny as hell. Zosia Mamet is killing it this season.

[EdnasEdibles]

I am surprised no one has mentioned how hostile and psychotic Shoshanna was in that interview! Did she not know she was marketing soup before she got there?? Why even go to the interview if you despise the product so much?

Let's just say she didn't realize she despised the soup until she got there... Who acts like that??

 

The only thing I loved about this is that I have hit that point when I have the times in my life where I'm interviewing a lot.  Granted, Shosh is terrible at interviews but also, there are so many interviewers that are just terrible.  I remember one where someone read a magazine while their co-worker asked me questions. Another one where she threw my resume at me (threw it at me!) and said that I had no decent experience. And you're just supposed to smile and take it. He was kind of being a little bit of an interviewing douche making fun of her experience. I mean, if she doesn't have good job experience, why did you have her come in for an interview? Her resume hasn't changed in the few days that have lapsed between the call and the in-person interview. So I did relish Shosh's breakdown a little bit.  I've been there. 

[TVForever]

I am surprised no one has mentioned how hostile and psychotic Shoshanna was in that interview! Did she not know she was marketing soup before she got there?? Why even go to the interview if you despise the product so much?

Let's just say she didn't realize she despised the soup until she got there... Who acts like that??

   Makes you wonder...doesn't NYU have a career planning office? And,did Shoshanna ever go? Does she actually want a job, or what? This isn't even about being bad at interviewing. She's just pissing people off for reasons I don't understand.

[Hecate7]

If Adam felt so deserted by Hannah that he was able to move on with another woman like in a month... then he should have had the balls to break if off with her. 

 

 

So much this. Yes, I get the feeling Adam was going to try Mimi Rose out, and wait and see if things worked out first, before saying anything to Hannah.

 

One thing that cracked me up was Adam's certainty that he had never gotten anyone else pregnant. I mean, you didn't know you got Mimi-Rose pregnant, right? So.....isn't it just possible that this has happened before, and the other girls just never mentioned it? How would you ever know? You don't. For all Adam knows, Natalia was pregnant when he left her. And if he was so sloppy with his birth control as a habit, that he already knocked up Mimi Rose, then there's no telling how many times this has happened. He's obviously not always close enough to the woman he's with to know what her birth control situation is, and he has absolutely no way of knowing whether some of his shorter, more casual affairs resulted in pregnancy.

[Betweenyouandme]

In the back of my mind I wonder if Mimi Rose made up the abortion. I mean, if she likes playing games on people. I'm not sure if I trust her or not.

[Hecate7]

In the back of my mind I wonder if Mimi Rose made up the abortion. I mean, if she likes playing games on people. I'm not sure if I trust her or not.

 

That crossed my mind, too. I mean usually when a character has too much in common with me, or too many traits I like, that character is revealed to be lying about all of it. No one on this show is allowed to just be a nice person with some quirks. They're all kind of awful.

[himela]

I've neve felt closest to Adam (and a character in a show to be honest in a long time) as I did when he wanted from his girlfriend to need him. It was so weird for  him and for me to hear that someone can want you, love you even, but not need you. I know this is the "normal" or at least expected thing to do, but since when do feeling fit in rules? I need my boyfriend and I need him to need me as well. I don't like relationships where people can be happy both as singles and as a couple. In my opinion if you are totally great by yourself and you got everything you need as single, why do you drag a person into a relationship with you? I know I may seem too insecure to most people, but hey, that's me. Thank you Lena for this insight and for making me connect with a series character after a long long time.

 

But I am still wondering, do you feel it's "normal" that a woman has an abortion without at least informing her boyfriend about it?

[Hecate7]

I've neve felt closest to Adam (and a character in a show to be honest in a long time) as I did when he wanted from his girlfriend to need him. It was so weird for  him and for me to hear that someone can want you, love you even, but not need you. I know this is the "normal" or at least expected thing to do, but since when do feeling fit in rules? I need my boyfriend and I need him to need me as well. I don't like relationships where people can be happy both as singles and as a couple. In my opinion if you are totally great by yourself and you got everything you need as single, why do you drag a person into a relationship with you? I know I may seem too insecure to most people, but hey, that's me. Thank you Lena for this insight and for making me connect with a series character after a long long time.

 

But I am still wondering, do you feel it's "normal" that a woman has an abortion without at least informing her boyfriend about it?

It's very normal. The only reason to tell him is if he asks you to go running, lift something very heavy, or have intercourse, during the first two weeks after. If your relationship is such that you would actually consider having the baby, you'll probably know from the way he's proposed to you and talked about how much he would like to have kids with you. If that conversation hasn't happened, then it's really too soon. If you wouldn't tell him about a dental appointment or having a mole removed, there's no need to burden him with this.

 

A boyfriend is not a husband.

[blackCatCollins]

It's very normal. The only reason to tell him is if he asks you to go running, lift something very heavy, or have intercourse, during the first two weeks after. If your relationship is such that you would actually consider having the baby, you'll probably know from the way he's proposed to you and talked about how much he would like to have kids with you. If that conversation hasn't happened, then it's really too soon. If you wouldn't tell him about a dental appointment or having a mole removed, there's no need to burden him with this.

 

A boyfriend is not a husband.

respectfully disagree with this on a couple levels. i know many committed, happy couples with children who are not married (and a couple that have absolutely no plans to do so). you can "consider having the baby" without a proposal. commitment and marriage are not one in the same.

 

additionally, a dental appointment or a mole removal is on your body and concerns no one but you, and as such you don't need to inform your significant other. it takes two people to conceive a baby. i believe that, yes, the ultimate decision on whether or not to keep the baby lies with the woman, but i also believe she at least owes it to her partner to inform them of what's going on.

[DangerousMinds]

Her body, her choice.

[Hecate7]

respectfully disagree with this on a couple levels. i know many committed, happy couples with children who are not married (and a couple that have absolutely no plans to do so). you can "consider having the baby" without a proposal. commitment and marriage are not one in the same.

 

additionally, a dental appointment or a mole removal is on your body and concerns no one but you, and as such you don't need to inform your significant other. it takes two people to conceive a baby. i believe that, yes, the ultimate decision on whether or not to keep the baby lies with the woman, but i also believe she at least owes it to her partner to inform them of what's going on.

 

Point well taken about couples who are completely committed but aren't married. In such cases, however, marriage has been discussed, and the level of commitment agreed on. I may have classed couples a bit too narrowly. Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon come to mind.

 

But I don't think it's necessary to have an "I'm pregnant, what do you want me to do" conversation before you've had the "so where is this going, do you think?" conversation. If the relationship is new, (and sometimes even if it's not) it is often well nigh impossible to convince the guy he had anything to do with it anyway. There are a shocking number of people who think women are always completely in control of when they get pregnant, and do it deliberately to "trap" men into marrying them. These same people tend to think moreover that women always know who the father is even if they slept with more than one guy in a given month, as if there's some little bell that goes off to tell them they've conceived and by whom. Adam and Ace might have overlapped just enough that Mimi Rose had no idea. Or she might not have broken up with Ace until after Adam broke up with Hannah. Mimi Rose doesn't strike me as the sort of girl who would be worried about having sex with different people on the same day, unless she was in a committed relationship.

 

Of course, the way she dropped that bomb on Adam suggests that she was manipulating him with it somehow. Perhaps she's trying to provoke him into breaking up with her. It's entirely possible she invented the whole story. Now that I think about it, he doesn't need to know why she's suddenly taking showers instead of baths, or why she can't have penetrative intercourse for a week or two, or why she doesn't want to go running. She could have said, "I had some minor surgery--nothing important, but I can't run for about a week." His curiosity would probably have led him no further.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Hecate7

[Hecate7]

I meant normal in the sense of frequent, ordinary, or commonplace, btw. I have no opinion on whether it's mentally healthy or a trait of a "normal" personality. I think a lot of women, though, would just have the abortion and never say anything to Adam about it at all, especially if they were in doubt about whose it was, or if they imagined they were going to be accused of trying to trap the man into marriage. A great many women would just short circuit that entire line of discussion by eliminating the pregnancy in the first place. I think it is also quite commonplace to abort when you've been fired, dumped, or cut off by family, or if you assume that the guy you're dating is the sort of guy who would panic and freak out and dump you, if you tell him you're carrying his child already.

[blackCatCollins]

 

 

But I don't think it's necessary to have an "I'm pregnant, what do you want me to do" conversation before you've had the "so where is this going, do you think?" conversation. If the relationship is new, (and sometimes even if it's not) it is often well nigh impossible to convince the guy he had anything to do with it anyway. There are a shocking number of people who think women are always completely in control of when they get pregnant, and do it deliberately to "trap" men into marrying them. These same people tend to think moreover that women always know who the father is even if they slept with more than one guy in a given month, as if there's some little bell that goes off to tell them they've conceived and by whom. Adam and Ace might have overlapped just enough that Mimi Rose had no idea. Or she might not have broken up with Ace until after Adam broke up with Hannah. Mimi Rose doesn't strike me as the sort of girl who would be worried about having sex with different people on the same day, unless she was in a committed relationship.

 

 

i just want to clarify- i in no way think she owed it to Adam to ask his opinion on what to do- as stated above, it is her body and her choice. i do, however, think she owed it to him to tell him what was going on. before she did it. maybe i just have a different view on honesty in a relationship, i don't know.

[Hecate7]

Sure. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

You asked if it was normal. It is very normal, ordinary, commonplace. Is it the right thing to do? That's a whole other conversation. It's a little odd to just do it, and then tell him. It's more usual to do it and never say a word.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Hecate7

[blackCatCollins]

another clarification- i never asked if it was normal, that was 'himela'. :)

 

but your point is taken.

[Nire]

I know this is an old topic but my husband and I have been binge watching the series.  I feel that while it's 100% her decision in a relationship that has progressed to living together and there is no abuse one should at least be upfront and honest.  She didn't seem the least bit unsure of who fathered it.  

And I definitely let my husband know when about 7 weeks into our relationship I had a mole removed.  Not because I needed his permission but just because it was something happening in my life and we always have talked about what plans we have coming up.