All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[WendyCR72]

15 hours ago, Birdie said:

While I liked Keaton’s ability to keep Benton’s ego in check, I find Glenne Headley’s baby-with-a-head-cold voice so grating. But I’ve never seen her in anything else. Is that her voice or an affect for the “caring, sensitive pediatric surgeon” role? And Keaton’s chemistry with Carter was there; pity they couldn’t keep GH for a bit longer.

I believe that was Glenne Headley's real voice. As an aside, it's a shame she died so young.

[debraran]

OMG, I forgot how heart wrenching Mark's dads death was. I am crying and I haven't cried watching this show for a long time, maybe first season. They both were so excellent and Elizabeth wearing the pearls. ; (

I have watched TIU and other sappy shows but they don't touch me the same way. When they did it right, they did it very well.

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by debraran

[Birdie]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

it's a shame she died so young.

I didn’t know she died! Wow, just read about it on wiki...pulmonary embolism ☹️
 

5 hours ago, debraran said:

OMG, I forgot how heart wrenching Mark's dads death was. I am crying and I haven't cried watching this show for a long time, maybe first season. They both were so excellent and Elizabeth wearing the pearls.

I keep going back to the scene where the gravity of Mark’s dad’s situation is confirmed - Mark is in the X-ray reading room along with that radiologist, and he puts his dad’s chest X-ray up. The look on Mark’s face just sucks the air out of the room, and the radiologist, before he knows it’s Mark’s father, comments about how bad the patient has it. 

Edwards and John Cullum had great chemistry as son and father.

[WendyCR72]

20 hours ago, Birdie said:

I didn’t know she died! Wow, just read about it on wiki...pulmonary embolism

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, even so late! She even was the first in the TCM Remembers 2017 video in terms of list of actors that passed. Miguel Ferrer, George Clooney's cousin - and who appeared in the pilot as a man Susan Lewis ironically tells is dying of cancer (which Ferrer sadly did) - is also included in the video. (The clip they chose of him had him with hair. Weird seeing him like that as I always remembered him as basically bald!)

[Danny Franks]

On 11/14/2020 at 7:33 AM, Birdie said:

While I liked Keaton’s ability to keep Benton’s ego in check, I find Glenne Headley’s baby-with-a-head-cold voice so grating. But I’ve never seen her in anything else. Is that her voice or an affect for the “caring, sensitive pediatric surgeon” role? And Keaton’s chemistry with Carter was there; pity they couldn’t keep GH for a bit longer.

I really disliked that whole storyline, and the main reason for it was Glenne Headley's voice. I found it so grating, as you did, and couldn't take her seriously. Even when she was yelling at Benton for being arrogant and making a grave mistake, she had no real authority. Of all the guest stars ER probably could have hired in 1997, they went with her?

I understood Benton's drive to be a paediatric surgeon - it's the hardest specialty so therefore it's the one Benton wants. Very much in-character for him. But it was just a pointless detour that never really went anywhere. I guess this is a problem I have with Benton as a character throughout ER - he never learns from professional setbacks, he always remains cocksure and arrogant and that arrogance is often confirmed when he does some amazing bit of work to save someone's life.

The only growth I can really think of him having is with Reece and, in a more restrained fashion, with Carter. Then that last flush of it when he finally realises his son is more important than his career.

[readster]

6 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I really disliked that whole storyline, and the main reason for it was Glenne Headley's voice. I found it so grating, as you did, and couldn't take her seriously. Even when she was yelling at Benton for being arrogant and making a grave mistake, she had no real authority. Of all the guest stars ER probably could have hired in 1997, they went with her?

She was also pregnant during the time and they had to cover it up too. The scene when she falls in the snow when her and Carter are looking for a Christmas Tree. She has about 8 layers on to hide it. 

[debraran]

16 hours ago, readster said:

She was also pregnant during the time and they had to cover it up too. The scene when she falls in the snow when her and Carter are looking for a Christmas Tree. She has about 8 layers on to hide it. 

Watching it again with my daughter, I see things I missed before. I forgot she was pregnant but they had a lot of floor antics and scenes where her stomach was hidden by him or desks, etc.

Because my daughter (20's) wasn't as invested in characters, missing episodes etc. she saw the one with Carter going to rehab and thought it was excellent from his relationship with Benton and his attitude. The last scene with him on plane with his friend while ER staff waits for call was a great ending to season 6. Then the school shooting and Kovac constantly in angst. There was the young girl who didn't want her baby, saving the young child over the shooter, I forgot how he was always upset and emotional. I knew he was dark and brooding and I had to laugh when my daughter asked if he was a "Doug replacement" because he was too brooding. I said I felt Malucci and him were both Doug but no one replaced him in many fans eyes. She loved Greene and said he was the base, you could tell and I agreed, I missed him a lot when he left. Doug not so much.

Seeing Carol go to Doug through my daughter's eyes, she is more logical and said, "She just left? They aren't going to like that" lol  She also noticed he lived in condos, not the home I always said. The back was 3 or 4 identical units with the same garage door and dock. Funny how your brain remembers things. She asked if they ever showed her again or mentioned her and  I said barely, mentioned once maybe and later shown toward end of show at their hospital. Somehow she got her babies, clothes, sold her home and furniture and picked up her last paycheck without seeing anyone, but all we care about is that silly story of her raising twins on her own ended.  : )

I wonder is there something in contracts not to mention people who left or pretend to get a letter or phone call? They rarely do it and I only vaguely remember one star years ago, saying he didn't want picture of him shown or flashbacks without payment. I guess it's all how your contract is written and how important you are.

 

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I wonder is there something in contracts not to mention people who left or pretend to get a letter or phone call? They rarely do it and I only vaguely remember one star years ago, saying he didn't want picture of him shown or flashbacks without payment. I guess it's all how your contract is written and how important you are.

I suppose it's just for an ease of writing point of view, to not weigh everything down with the show's history. I wouldn't think there's anything in contracts that say "you can't mention my character's name," but maybe I'm a bit naïve about the ego of actors. Showing their image or flashbacks of them probably was contractual.

Anna Del Amico was mentioned once after she left - to explain why she left. Susan was barely mentioned until she returned, at which point Elizabeth revealed that Mark was in at least semi-regular contact with her in Phoenix. I don't think Doug was mentioned much, even by Carol, after he left. And yeah, the only mention of Carol was when the nurses told the returning Susan that she just upped and left without telling anyone. I don't even think Mark was mentioned often after he died.

While the doctors come and go, the nurses remain constant and I guess if we saw more of their inner lives there might be more references to departed staff. Lydia, Haleh, Connie and Malik worked with Mark for over a decade (assuming they were at the hospital when he started his residency), for example, and with Carter for eleven. There would be inevitable comparisons between the doctors they worked with and trusted and anyone new coming in to take their place.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Danny Franks

[Kel Varnsen]

On 11/14/2020 at 8:11 PM, debraran said:

OMG, I forgot how heart wrenching Mark's dads death was. I am crying and I haven't cried watching this show for a long time, maybe first season. They both were so excellent and Elizabeth wearing the pearls. ; (

I just finished season 6 last night and Mark's storyline with his dad was definitely a highlight. Anthony Edwards and the actor who played his dad worked very well together and the scenes where the dad saw Mark working in the ER and his pride were really well done.

3 hours ago, debraran said:

Seing Carol go to Doug through my daughter's eyes, she is more logical and said, "She just left? They aren't going to like that" lol  She also noticed he lived in condos, not the home I always said. The back was 3 or 4 identical units with the same garage door and dock. Funny how your brain remembers things. She asked if they ever showed her again or mentioned her and  I said barely, mentioned once maybe and later shown toward end of show at their hospital. Somehow she got her babies, clothes, sold her home and furniture and picked up her last paycheck without seeing anyone, but all we care about is that silly story of her raising twins on her own ended.  : 

I also found Carol's storyline super week, especially her last episode. The whole thing with the family if the dying mom was so bad. You had the kid tell Carol how kids need their mom and their dad and then the father tell her how important soul mates are. I watch a lot of tv and I don't think I have ever seen a doctor show where a patient's life mirrored what was going on with a character's more obviously. And I used to watch Grey's Anatomy. 

[Growsonwalls]

The thing that bugged me about Carol leaving was that her final goodbye in the ER was to LUKA. The creepy guy who tried to move in on her kids when she was flying cross-country to be with the father of said kids.

I wanted her to say goodbye to Mark, who had been there for her at her very lowest (from the suicide to the twins' delivery), or maybe the team of nurses, or Carter. That's just honoring ER history to have her say goodbye to people she'd known and worked with for years.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

The thing that bugged me about Carol leaving was that her final goodbye in the ER was to LUKA. The creepy guy who tried to move in on her kids when she was flying cross-country to be with the father of said kids.

I wanted her to say goodbye to Mark, who had been there for her at her very lowest (from the suicide to the twins' delivery), or maybe the team of nurses, or Carter. That's just honoring ER history to have her say goodbye to people she'd known and worked with for years.

Except for the fact that she wound up with Doug which was seemingly the goal all along, the whole storyline was terrible.  I think she was kind of forced to say goodby to Luka mostly because the storyline was so bad.  His character was staying on the show; having her leave town without a word and taking her kids with her would've made him look even more pathetic than he already did with all his mooning over her.  TPTB needed to show that Carol told Luka she was going to Doug or he would've looked like the biggest loser in love ever.  As it was, Abby came along and took care of that and he left the show taking the title with him.

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Except for the fact that she wound up with Doug which was seemingly the goal all along, the whole storyline was terrible.  I think she was kind of forced to say goodby to Luka mostly because the storyline was so bad.  His character was staying on the show; having her leave town without a word and taking her kids with her would've made him look even more pathetic than he already did with all his mooning over her.  TPTB needed to show that Carol told Luka she was going to Doug or he would've looked like the biggest loser in love ever.  As it was, Abby came along and took care of that and he left the show taking the title with him.

I never got why ER didn't just make Carol's exit a Very Special Episode where George Clooney comes back (as he was willing to come back anyway for a cameo) and she rides off into the sunset with him. Instead they wanted to spring a "surprise exit" on viewers and the exit to Carol was as rushed and half-baked as Doug's exit. 

And again, Julianna Marguiles already told them she would not be returning for a seventh season. So this was not a quick write-out either. 

[debraran]

9 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I just finished season 6 last night and Mark's storyline with his dad was definitely a highlight. Anthony Edwards and the actor who played his dad worked very well together and the scenes where the dad saw Mark working in the ER and his pride were really well done.

I also found Carol's storyline super week, especially her last episode. The whole thing with the family if the dying mom was so bad. You had the kid tell Carol how kids need their mom and their dad and then the father tell her how important soul mates are. I watch a lot of tv and I don't think I have ever seen a doctor show where a patient's life mirrored what was going on with a character's more obviously. And I used to watch Grey's Anatomy. 

It was bad. She had no reason (beyond Julianne's contract) to stay. She didn't have a good relationship with her Mom, not enough to say she wouldn't leave "family" the nurses were buds but not enough to not move with her boyfriend that she wanted to have a baby with. She didn't make very much money to afford 2 kids in day care. She never mentioned Doug paying either.  She didn't even look guilty kissing Kovac but the sick mom made her think maybe Doug still loved her, let me find out. The animal crackers meant nothing or the calls. I can only imagine in a time before leaks were as common, how exciting seeing scruffy Doug at the end was though. ; )

Anthony Edwards saved a lot of the weaker scripts with his story with his mom and dad and keeping the ER running.  Carter and Benton, even Romano had some good scenes the end of season 6. He showed kindness with Deb/Jing-Mei letting her get the expensive baby test for rare conditions and you can tell he admired her tenacity. I know I'll still enjoy some shows in season 7 but Abby is not a fav and Cleo and I wont be as enamored.

Edited November 16, 2020 by debraran

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

I never got why ER didn't just make Carol's exit a Very Special Episode where George Clooney comes back (as he was willing to come back anyway for a cameo) and she rides off into the sunset with him. Instead they wanted to spring a "surprise exit" on viewers and the exit to Carol was as rushed and half-baked as Doug's exit. 

And again, Julianna Marguiles already told them she would not be returning for a seventh season. So this was not a quick write-out either. 

I agree, but we didn't write it, having him come and sweep her off her feet and visit his girls. She could give notice and everyone got one more Doug fix.  But the " I love my job" turned into" have fun filling in my shifts girls."  ;  )

I'd love to have seen him with the twins. Not sure how she got them there or anything else she needed but that's TV fantasy. 
At the time I'm sure it was a big ratings booster and Clooney had one line to give and one kiss.

Edited November 16, 2020 by debraran

[Kel Varnsen]

21 minutes ago, debraran said:

At the time I'm sure it was a big ratings booster and Clooney had one line to give and one kiss.

Would it have been though? My memory is not super clear on this but from what I can remember it was a complete surprise, like no spoilers or Clooney doing promotion or anything.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Would it have been though? My memory is not super clear on this but from what I can remember it was a complete surprise, like no spoilers or Clooney doing promotion or anything.

You are right about the first time he was on.  I guess if you missed it you had to wait for rerun or had it taped . From interview:

“Clooney remembers the trip vividly: “We shot the scene in the back of a house that no one lived in anymore and got back on the plane. The rest of the cast didn’t know. [Anthony] Edwards didn’t know. The only people who knew were Julianna, John Wells, our cinematographer, our sound guy, and one grip, I think.”

Edited November 17, 2020 by debraran

[doodlebug]

13 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Would it have been though? My memory is not super clear on this but from what I can remember it was a complete surprise, like no spoilers or Clooney doing promotion or anything.

It was a complete surprise up to the morning that the show aired when The Today Show had the scoop.  Clooney and Margulies filmed their scene  in the early morning hours in the Pacific Northwest and the crew was sworn to secrecy.  That scene was not included in the script distributed to the cast and crew.  I remember the anticipation and excitement once the word got out that day.  I was part of a news group for ER at the time and there were some diehard Doug and Carol fans who were ecstatic.  Clooney didn't need to promo it, once TPTB let viewers know there was an ending to Doug and Carol and that he would appear, that was all it took.  Also recall that this was in Season 6 when ER was still at the top of the ratings, spoilers were uncommon and people tuned in to watch to see what happened on their favorite shows so they could discuss around the water cooler at work next day.

The only spoilers we used to get were 'sides' which were scenes from the episodes used in auditioning guest actors. There was a member of our news group who worked for a casting agency and she would sneak a peek at the sides when they came in and give us details.  If there wasn't a non-cast member in a scene, it wasn't available.  And, the sides themselves, which came out a couple weeks before an episode was filmed and a couple months before it aired; were often rewritten so that things we thought were going to happen didn't.  One side that ended up being wrong concerned Abby and Luka and the baby.  The baby was in the NICU, hanging by a thread and Luka wanted to have a priest baptize him.  Abby objected vehemently and was her usual intolerant self.  I guess TPTB realized that it wasn't a good look for her, so the scene got rewritten and instead, it is Abby who arranges the baptism because she knows it is important to Luka.  So, even the spoilers we got were subject to complete revision.  And, of course, sometimes entire storylines got dropped during filming and we never saw any version of the spoilers.

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by doodlebug

[RedbirdNelly]

It is always best in my opinion without spoilers. I would prefer if actors who are planning to leave kept mum until we saw their last show. I know that doesn't happen but I was expecting Lucy to die when she got stabbed since I'd heard she was leaving. It was obviously possible for her to survive and then leave to recover or because she decides medicine is not for her etc. but death seemed like the likely outcome. I would have preferred not to have an idea of which way it was likely to go--although it still was a great episode.

[debraran]

This isn't hysterically funny but made me smile. I had forgotten about it. I loved how everyone was "busy". ; )

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by debraran

[debraran]

I'm watching the episode where Mark finds out he has the tumor and Elizabeth tells him she's pregnant. His face which would have been ecstatic (but came off just shocked) was done so well, his expression, his eyes, etc., his soft "I love you too". I knew it was fiction but I felt for him in a way I usually don't on TV. My daughter commented that the difference between this and some other similar shows, was the lack of melodrama. No overwrought scenes, no distracting music, just acting.

It was so different than the Abby meets her bipolar Mom going on in other scenes. So spastic, she's not knowing her, knowing her, yelling at her, holding her, chasing her in the rain, ignoring her, dumping her at the bus station, hiding from her and sleeping with Kovac all in the same show! Geez, it's coming back how much I disliked her character but I'll stick around for Greene until the beach.

I understand why Doug was never shown again and Clooney didn't want to distract from Mark's funeral being a bigger star then, but why no mention of him or Carol sending anything or calling Elizabeth or a card? Those shows when they traveled together and helped each other with parents and all the basketball, that isn't forgotten. Only part I felt was a bit "off". I just imagined they did back then and since George was asked a lot why, I guess other fans thought their friendship deserved a mention.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by debraran

[doodlebug]

On 11/22/2020 at 7:06 AM, debraran said:

I'm watching the episode where Mark finds out he has the tumor and Elizabeth tells him she's pregnant. His face which would have been ecstatic (but came off just shocked) was done so well, his expression, his eyes, etc., his soft "I love you too". I knew it was fiction but I felt for him in a way I usually don't on TV. My daughter commented that the difference between this and some other similar shows, was the lack of melodrama. No overwrought scenes, no distracting music, just acting.

It was so different than the Abby meets her bipolar Mom going on in other scenes. So spastic, she's not knowing her, knowing her, yelling at her, holding her, chasing her in the rain, ignoring her, dumping her at the bus station, hiding from her and sleeping with Kovac all in the same show! Geez, it's coming back how much I disliked her character but I'll stick around for Greene until the beach.

I understand why Doug was never shown again and Clooney didn't want to distract from Mark's funeral being a bigger star then, but why no mention of him or Carol sending anything or calling Elizabeth or a card? Those shows when they traveled together and helped each other with parents and all the basketball, that isn't forgotten. Only part I felt was a bit "off". I just imagined they did back then and since George was asked a lot why, I guess other fans thought their friendship deserved a mention.

 

 

You'd think there would've been a throwaway line about Mark stopping in Seattle for a day or two on his way to Hawaii with Rachel.  Or, perhaps Doug and Carol and the twins flew out to spend a weekend there with him.  They were close friends, all of them, and supported one another through a lot of stuff; Mark's relationship with Doug and Carol should've been honored in some way.  Then again, by the time Mark died, Doug had been in Seattle for 10 years, Carol for 9; I suppose we all lose touch with people over time, especially after a cross-country move.  Still, it would've meant a lot to fans of the show.

[littlebennysmom]

Just watched the rerun where Carter gets reamed out by "Ruby" (Red Buttons) and I have to say the whole thing was just so eye rollingly bad.  There isn't a doctor in any hospital that would have given him and his wife the amount of attention they received.  And for Ruby to bitch that he didn't know his wife would die and holding Carter responsible for not telling him?  If he hadn't realized how close she was to death the first time he was there with her, he was not paying attention.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, littlebennysmom said:

Just watched the rerun where Carter gets reamed out by "Ruby" (Red Buttons) and I have to say the whole thing was just so eye rollingly bad.  There isn't a doctor in any hospital that would have given him and his wife the amount of attention they received.  And for Ruby to bitch that he didn't know his wife would die and holding Carter responsible for not telling him?  If he hadn't realized how close she was to death the first time he was there with her, he was not paying attention.

It really demonstrated the unrealistic expectations that some patients and their loved ones have.  Ruby's wife, aside from being elderly, had a number of serious health conditions and her odds of surviving the surgery and returning to her previous state of health were small from the start.  I guess the story was supposed to outline the difficulty Carter had in giving bad news to patients and families, but he was the medical student on the case: Vucelich and Benton, as the attending and senior resident caring for her, were the ones who should've sat Ruby down and had a frank discussion of realistic expectations for her.  Of course, Vucelich was anxious for another patient for his study and Benton was not known for his bedside manner; but it was wrong of them to put Carter in charge of Ruby just because he was a pain in the neck.

[readster]

48 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

It really demonstrated the unrealistic expectations that some patients and their loved ones have.  Ruby's wife, aside from being elderly, had a number of serious health conditions and her odds of surviving the surgery and returning to her previous state of health were small from the start.  I guess the story was supposed to outline the difficulty Carter had in giving bad news to patients and families, but he was the medical student on the case: Vucelich and Benton, as the attending and senior resident caring for her, were the ones who should've sat Ruby down and had a frank discussion of realistic expectations for her.  Of course, Vucelich was anxious for another patient for his study and Benton was not known for his bedside manner; but it was wrong of them to put Carter in charge of Ruby just because he was a pain in the neck.

It didn't help years later when Ruby showed up going: "That guy killed my wife." I wanted to go: "No, she died from age and health conditions." Carter didn't do anything and when he explained what happened to Maggie he put it perfectly that Vucelich didn't care and Peter was: "You have to move on, you can't help her." When they SHOULD have been the ones who told him that his wife wasn't going to make it. Then you add in that Ruby himself was having serious problems and then Anspaugh wanted to cut him open and operate. He coded barely getting any meds and this is the same Anspaugh who didn't want to help a taxi driver who said: "I'm going to either die from this or you do the surgery and I MIGHT live. Let me go with the surgery." Yet, Anspaugh was: "I'm a surgeon, not a killer." Yet he was so gun-ho on operating on Ruby when he had even worst conditions? Consistency was not ER's name. 

[Kel Varnsen]

38 minutes ago, readster said:

Consistency was not ER's name. 

Funny you should mention that. Right now I'm in season 7. Benton is the diversity director and he just found out that he would not gotten into Med School if he wasn't African American. But in the season with Gant where he is pushing him extra hard he says that when he applied to med school he never checked the box to indicate his race because he didn't want special treatment.

[Danny Franks]

9 hours ago, littlebennysmom said:

Just watched the rerun where Carter gets reamed out by "Ruby" (Red Buttons) and I have to say the whole thing was just so eye rollingly bad.  There isn't a doctor in any hospital that would have given him and his wife the amount of attention they received.  And for Ruby to bitch that he didn't know his wife would die and holding Carter responsible for not telling him?  If he hadn't realized how close she was to death the first time he was there with her, he was not paying attention.

I think the only bit of it I liked was when Carter showed up to the funeral to apologise and Ruby said "this day isn't about you, Doctor Carter."

It was such a great, one line demolition of Carter's hero complex and need to feel better about himself. Yes, he lied to Ruby, and he tried to wash his hands of the case, but apologising for that was worthless because Ruby's wife was still dead.

 

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

It really demonstrated the unrealistic expectations that some patients and their loved ones have.  Ruby's wife, aside from being elderly, had a number of serious health conditions and her odds of surviving the surgery and returning to her previous state of health were small from the start.  I guess the story was supposed to outline the difficulty Carter had in giving bad news to patients and families, but he was the medical student on the case: Vucelich and Benton, as the attending and senior resident caring for her, were the ones who should've sat Ruby down and had a frank discussion of realistic expectations for her.  Of course, Vucelich was anxious for another patient for his study and Benton was not known for his bedside manner; but it was wrong of them to put Carter in charge of Ruby just because he was a pain in the neck.

This too. Rewatching the first three seasons and seeing Carter's clearly misguided determination to become a surgeon was frustrating but a pleasingly consistent storyline running through the show.

He was never a good fit, and it was apparent at every turn. Benton recognised it early on when he told him "you don't think like a surgeon." Even being unable to talk to Ruby honestly showed compassion for his patients that the surgeons usually lacked, and he did learn from it.

The end of season three is one of the highlights of Carter's entire run on the show, when he finally realises it himself, and gets Anspaugh to listen to his reasoning.

On 11/22/2020 at 12:06 PM, debraran said:

I'm watching the episode where Mark finds out he has the tumor and Elizabeth tells him she's pregnant. His face which would have been ecstatic (but came off just shocked) was done so well, his expression, his eyes, etc., his soft "I love you too". I knew it was fiction but I felt for him in a way I usually don't on TV. My daughter commented that the difference between this and some other similar shows, was the lack of melodrama. No overwrought scenes, no distracting music, just acting.

It was so different than the Abby meets her bipolar Mom going on in other scenes. So spastic, she's not knowing her, knowing her, yelling at her, holding her, chasing her in the rain, ignoring her, dumping her at the bus station, hiding from her and sleeping with Kovac all in the same show! Geez, it's coming back how much I disliked her character but I'll stick around for Greene until the beach.

My feelings on Mark were unfairly skewed by reading the old TWoP recaps of the show, which really reamed him for being so milquetoast and dull. But when rewatching it's impossible to dislike him most of the time.

He was just a good, genuine person who wanted to do his job and help as many people as possible, be they patients or colleagues. Yes, he was self-righteous and judgy some of the time, but so was everyone in ER.

[doodlebug]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:22 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Funny you should mention that. Right now I'm in season 7. Benton is the diversity director and he just found out that he would not gotten into Med School if he wasn't African American. But in the season with Gant where he is pushing him extra hard he says that when he applied to med school he never checked the box to indicate his race because he didn't want special treatment.

I think the show told us that, even though Benton didn't check the box, someone on the admissions committee did when he interviewed and, so, although he didn't think he'd gotten any consideration due to race, it turned out he had.

Then again, I haven't watched those episodes in years, I could easily be wrong about that.

[Bastet]

I can't decide who the writers hate more, the mentally ill or the obese.

I also can't figure out what was supposed to be so great about Carol; I liked her well enough in real time, but watching a bunch of episodes in a row (I can't sleep), she's annoying.

[debraran]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

I can't decide who the writers hate more, the mentally ill or the obese.

I also can't figure out what was supposed to be so great about Carol; I liked her well enough in real time, but watching a bunch of episodes in a row (I can't sleep), she's annoying.

Felt the same way, re Carol. Loved her many years ago, but spaced out. Too many shows together, I cringe and realize her depth etc. wasn't much. She whined a lot, looked tired or harried, bemoaned her life often but you didn't feel like you knew her. Mark, Carter, even Jeanne, you did. Doug although shallow, you got to know his childhood, his dad, his mistakes, his growth to some degree. Carol was just Doug's arm candy and Tag's lament.

Edited November 26, 2020 by debraran

[CrazyInAlabama]

I loved the big snowfall episode when they ran out of patients, and Mark and the others put a leg cast on Carter while he was asleep.    Then they had the big traffic accident, and Carter was trying desperately to get the cast off, and the biker took the cast saw and took it off, with Carter hollering the whole time. 

Then Bob, the former vascular surgeon clamping the man's aorta, and saving his life.  That was amazing.  

Edited November 26, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[WendyCR72]

18 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I loved the big snowfall episode when they ran out of patients, and Mark and the others put a leg cast on Carter while he was asleep.    Then they had the big traffic accident, and Carter was trying desperately to get the cast off, and the biker took the cast saw and took it off, with Carter hollering the whole time. 

Then Bob, the former vascular surgeon clamping the man's aorta, and saving his life.  That was amazing.  

Ah, "Blizzard" from Season 1. My favorite of ALL the Christmas-themed episodes that the show had!  😉

[Dr.OO7]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:40 AM, doodlebug said:

Then again, by the time Mark died, Doug had been in Seattle for 10 years, Carol for 9; I suppose we all lose touch with people over time, especially after a cross-country move.  Still, it would've meant a lot to fans of the show.

Not 10 and 9, 3 and 2, respectively.

Otherwise, I agree. It would have been nice to have a throwaway line about Carol being too far along to travel to the funeral. It's ridiculous that they could dredge up people we hadn't seen since Season *1* , but not his best friend.

[doodlebug]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Ah, "Blizzard" from Season 1. My favorite of ALL the Christmas-themed episodes that the show had!  😉

Probably my favorite ER episode ever.  It had everything that made this show so great: the humor, the camaraderie, the teamwork, the excitement.  I remember watching it live and thinking, 'this show is something really special'.

[Danny Franks]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:50 AM, debraran said:

Felt the same way, re Carol. Loved her many years ago, but spaced out. Too many shows together, I cringe and realize her depth etc. wasn't much. She whined a lot, looked tired or harried, bemoaned her life often but you didn't feel like you knew her. Mark, Carter, even Jeanne, you did. Doug although shallow, you got to know his childhood, his dad, his mistakes, his growth to some degree. Carol was just Doug's arm candy and Tag's lament.

Carol was really quite unpleasant a lot of the time. 

She's incredibly unkind to Jeanie when she first arrives, for no other reason than she sees Jeanie's job as a threat and affront to her own job as a nurse.

Then, when they bring the Southside staff into County, she's immediately a bitch to Maggie Doyle, for even less reason. She storms in, demands that Jerry find out who's parked in her space and get them to move. When Maggie says it's her, and she was told she could park anywhere, Carol snits that it's been her space for years.

Then, after asking Mark and Doug "who the hell is that?" in the way that mean girls do in high school movies when someone prettier joins the school, Doug points out that Carol's car had been repossessed anyway. Her repsonse? "It's still my space."

She's also a bitch to Abby, when she first arrives, because Abby had the guts to do what Carol toyed with then decided was too hard - enrolled in medical school to become a doctor.

While I can't remember for sure, I feel like Carol was rude to both Anna Del Amico and Elizabeth Corday when they first arrived too.

I guess you can appreciate the consistency of the writing - she takes an instant, obvious dislike to any woman she considers a threat, whether professionally or personally - but man, she was a hard woman to like a lot of the time.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Danny Franks

[PepSinger]

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

She's incredibly unkind to Jeanie when she first arrives, for no other reason than she sees Jeanie's job as a threat and affront to her own job as a nurse.

Oof. 

Pop just aired the eps where Carol is filling in as a temp nurse to make extra money because they cut her shifts, and the dynamic between her and Jeanie is so uncomfortable. "That's a PA's job." "That's a nurse's job." Yikes. 

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Doug points out that Carol's car had been repossessed anyway.

One of the block of episodes I watched the other day - in which Carol was an entitled, self-righteous, all-around little shit with no apparent grasp of the real world in which everyone around her was figuring out how to live - had her running out to confront the driver because her car was being repossessed.  It's revealed she missed three payments, yet she reacts to this development as if it's an unwarranted and in fact totally bizarre action.  Even after the adrenaline wears off, her car gone, and she's back in the ER, she's still angry with Doug for knowing her car was being repo'd but playing it down as being towed.

Dude.  How do YOU not know that?!  If you've assumed joint financial responsibility with someone, believe them to have been using half your money to fulfill those obligations, and then find yourself blindsided by the vehicle you use being hauled away for non-payment, by all means be aghast and angry.  But if you know very well you and you alone owe X each month towards repayment of Y loan and you've paid zero for three months, you do not get to act like the tow truck driver's presence is a surprise and a horrible injustice.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

One of the block of episodes I watched the other day - in which Carol was an entitled, self-righteous, all-around little shit with no apparent grasp of the real world in which everyone around her was figuring out how to live - had her running out to confront the driver because her car was being repossessed.  It's revealed she missed three payments, yet she reacts to this development as if it's an unwarranted and in fact totally bizarre action.  Even after the adrenaline wears off, her car gone, and she's back in the ER, she's still angry with Doug for knowing her car was being repo'd but playing it down as being towed.

Dude.  How do YOU not know that?!  If you've assumed joint financial responsibility with someone, believe them to have been using half your money to fulfill those obligations, and then find yourself blindsided by the vehicle you use being hauled away for non-payment, by all means be aghast and angry.  But if you know very well you and you alone owe X each month towards repayment of Y loan and you've paid zero for three months, you do not get to act like the tow truck driver's presence is a surprise and a horrible injustice.

Yes, she was selfish and a bit narcissistic at times, "all about me" Even with the adoption, she could be upset, she's human,  but she wasn't a good risk. She took enough pills to kill 2 people and that was just to be forgotten less than a year or so later?  I remember the car incident and being mean to Jeanne. Of course if she became a PA it would be different. She bought a home that wouldn't get approved by any mortgage company outside of TV and lives in it without most basic things but then over a few shows, it's pretty nice. She just leaves it so hopefully someone sold it for her or she has a foreclosure added to her credit history. ; )

I always felt for the other nurses, Haleh and others were smart too, they all did the same job, knew what the doctor's wanted before they asked and helped save many lives along side them. I listened to an interview with Yvette Freeman on youtube (Paul Edward Joyce) who didn't get very rich off the show but it paid the bills. It would have been nice to have a show showing her family in one but the writers had so many other characters to deal with. She hated what they did to "Romano" too and you start to see the beginning of the end.  She got the part because of her attitude during the audition which was funny. They copied the trauma rooms so well, I noticed sometimes even the ceiling tiles have water stains on them like a real hospital. They checked all the boxes. ; )

Edited November 29, 2020 by debraran

[Heathen]

5 hours ago, debraran said:

Yes, she was selfish and a bit narcissistic at times, "all about me" Even with the adoption, she could be upset, she's human,  but she wasn't a good risk. She took enough pills to kill 2 people and that was just to be forgotten less than a year or so later?  I remember the car incident and being mean to Jeanne. Of course if she became a PA it would be different. She bought a home that wouldn't get approved by any mortgage company outside of TV and lives in it without most basic things but then over a few shows, it's pretty nice. She just leaves it so hopefully someone sold it for her or she has a foreclosure added to her credit history. ; )

I always felt for the other nurses, Haleh and others were smart too, they all did the same job, knew what the doctor's wanted before they asked and helped save many lives along side them. I listened to an interview with Yvette Freeman on youtube (Paul Edward Joyce) who didn't get very rich off the show but it paid the bills. It would have been nice to have a show showing her family in one but the writers had so many other characters to deal with. She hated what they did to "Romano" too and you start to see the beginning of the end.  She got the part because of her attitude during the audition which was funny. They copied the trauma rooms so well, I noticed sometimes even the ceiling tiles have water stains on them like a real hospital. They checked all the boxes. ; )

I remember when Carol was dating Shep, and there were holes in her roof with snow coming into the living room. I also remember her mother, Helen, urging her to cozy up to her rich Uncle Miko. In a lot of ways, Carol was a loser. 

[Driad]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

I always felt for the other nurses, Haleh and others were smart too

Agreed. Once Haleh schooled Peter Benton. I forget what the issue was, and I liked both characters, but Haleh was right. (I have not seen this show since its original airing; I don't have cable or whatever.)

[Dr.OO7]

21 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

While I can't remember for sure, I feel like Carol was rude to both Anna Del Amico and Elizabeth Corday when they first arrived too.

No, she wasn't. She was annoyed about Elizabeth flirting with Doug, but she directed that at Doug, although that was unfair also, because Doug didn't respond and even quickly informed Elizabeth that he was involved with someone.

I guess I was watching a completely different show, because I never saw anything like what everyone is describing here. I don't know why the writer's felt the need to have her and Jeannie/Maggie at each other's throats. If she and Susan could be best friends, there's no reason she couldn't get along with other women. I guess the writers found it more interesting to script catfights rather than friendships.

I will say two moments of hers that did annoy me were back in Season 1--one where she was incredibly rude to Doug after he asked her to do something perfectly reasonable--"Are your hands painted on?" and another when Doug was scrambling around trying to get asthma meds for a patient--"She needs this and that, etc." Carol snidely comments that "she must be very pretty", and without even looking at her, Doug snaps, ""She's" TWELVE!"

[Kel Varnsen]

So I was watching Home Alone with my family and I hadn't realized before that the actress who plays desk clerk Randi also plays Kevin's oldest cousin Heather (the one who messed up the headcount). Since both the movie and the show take place in Chicago I am wondering what led Heather to change her name, her style, go to jail and then end up working at County. Was it that she felt so bad about her part in Kevin getting forgotten?

Also last night I watched the episode where Carla dies. And man that scene with Peter telling his son that his mom is gone was really well done. That little guy did an amazing job.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[debraran]

33 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So I was watching Home Alone with my family and I hadn't realized before that the actress who plays desk clerk Randi also plays Kevin's oldest cousin Heather (the one who messed up the headcount). Since both the movie and the show take place in Chicago I am wondering what led Heather to change her name, her style, go to jail and then end up working at County. Was it that she felt so bad about her part in Kevin getting forgotten?

Also last night I watched the episode where Carla dies. And man that scene with Peter telling his son that his mom is gone was really well done. That little guy did an amazing job.

Having all these flashbacks of times Carol wasn't nice makes it more realistic Doug didn't beg too hard for her to come. ; )

Yes, he was a great little actor who played Reese. Peter had some great scenes in this show but NONE with Cleo. I'm on them now in my Hulu watching and it's painful. Her mad face, sad face, bored face, they are all the same. She can't even be passionate with him without sounding robotic. There was a scene when she had tears in her eyes but still no feeling. One of those times I think nepotism or something else thought the casting of them was good.

It was similar (but not as bad) with Kerry and Kim. Both fine alone but together, it seemed awkward and I didn't feel it. I know Kerry was supposed to be awkward but as an actress, didn't feel the chemistry she was supposed to feel for Kim.  Nothing close to Peter/Cleo though.

Edited November 29, 2020 by debraran

[SoMuchTV]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So I was watching Home Alone with my family and I hadn't realized before that the actress who plays desk clerk Randi also plays Kevin's oldest cousin Heather (the one who messed up the headcount). Since both the movie and the show take place in Chicago I am wondering what led Heather to change her name, her style, go to jail and then end up working at County. Was it that she felt so bad about her part in Kevin getting forgotten?

Also last night I watched the episode where Carla dies. And man that scene with Peter telling his son that his mom is gone was really well done. That little guy did an amazing job.

Darn you, I was about to give you a "laugh" reaction until I got to your second paragraph!  Now it would be totally inappropriate 🙂

So, a laugh and a sad to you.

[Heathen]

Season 1 -- Peter's mother turned 76 years old, and Peter was a third-year resident and thus about 29 or 30 years old. So she was 47 when he was born? The writers didn't think that one through. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Heathen

[WendyCR72]

39 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Season 1 -- Peter's mother turned 76 years old, and Peter was a third-year resident and thus about 29 or 30 years old. So she was 47 when he was born? The writers didn't think that one through. 

Not necessarily. It's rare, but 47-year-old women can still get pregnant. (Although I forgot if Jackie was older or younger. If older, it works.)

[Growsonwalls]

I got the Carol/Jeannie feud. Professional jealousy is pretty realistic. The Carol story that annoyed me the most was her engagement to Tag. She was willing to go through with a big fancy wedding/marriage to a guy she not only didn't love, but didn't even like. It honestly looked like she was in the engagement because he was a surgeon and bought her nice stuff and also because she was on the rebound from Doug. 

But she sure forgot about him in a hot minute. That was pretty shitty of her. Tag was a nice guy. 

Season 2 same thing. She's with Shep but peaces out when he's going through PTSD because again, she doesn't like or love him. 

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Not necessarily. It's rare, but 47-year-old women can still get pregnant. (Although I forgot if Jackie was older or younger. If older, it works.)

I'm aware of that. One of my aunts had one at 47 (IVF), one great-aunt was even older (natural), and my great-grandmother had her thirteenth at 45 (natural). However, I very much doubt either was the case here as much as the writers not thinking. They needed Mrs. Benton to be old enough that dementia and her physical problems made sense, which they might not have if she were ten years younger. 

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Not necessarily. It's rare, but 47-year-old women can still get pregnant. (Although I forgot if Jackie was older or younger. If older, it works.)

Jackie has to be older since she had preteen and teen aged kids at the time the show debuted. Unless her mother nearly set the record for oldest to give birth while Jackie was one of the youngest.  While 47 year old women can get pregnant, the vast majority cannot.  Only about 1% of women are fertile enough to conceive naturally at 47.

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, Heathen said:

I'm aware of that. One of my aunts had one at 47 (IVF), one great-aunt was even older (natural), and my great-grandmother had her thirteenth at 45 (natural). However, I very much doubt either was the case here as much as the writers not thinking. They needed Mrs. Benton to be old enough that dementia and her physical problems made sense, which they might not have if she were ten years younger. 

They could've given her early-onset dementia.  But, I agree, the glitch in Benton's mother's age was not done on purpose, the writers just forgot how old Benton would be.

When the show debuted, Eriq LaSalle was 31, almost 32.  Even if Benton was the same age, it would've been a stretch for his mother to be in her 70's.

[RedbirdNelly]

I got the Carol/Jeanie feud and the Carol/Maggie dislike. It was one line of consistency that Carol had self-confidence issues--those show up not necessarily with every woman you work with but it made sense to show up with the PA and the person who is her age from the same place. Not admirable but realistic. 

Echoing those who love Blizzard. It's the best, starting off with SleighRide music at the start. 

I always felt that Ruby unfairly dumped on Carter. No, Carter wasn't perfect but Ruby's expectations were over the top. He didn't acknowledge his role in it, and he shared blame. But Carter did learn from it.