All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[lianau]

I think Lucy in lot of ways was the opposite of Carter . She was book smart but struggled with medical procedures , something Carter never had an issue with. And Carter was too inexperienced as a teacher to be able to help her with that because he just got impatient with her . Be Still My Heart is sort of the accumulation of their problems in a way , Lucy is trying to talk to him and Carter is just blowing her off and not listening . 

[RedbirdNelly]

welcome new posters. I can echo lots of what has been said. I always particularly loved Benton and Carter. One of my favorite scenes will always be when Carter has the addiction problem, they confront him, Carter runs out, Mark says something about it being over and Benton goes after Carter--made so perfect by carter taking a swing at him and Benton telling him 'you want to fight? fine but your ass is getting in that van?" (I'm sure my quote is not 100% right but I loved that line). I loved the deep relationship and the fact they never messed it up. When Benton leaves, Carter goes for the sentimental goodbye and you can tell Benton appreciates it deep down, but Benton never gets sentimental back, they don't hug it out, etc. thank you show, for having Benton help out when Carter needs the transplant. It was the perfect note.

I was always a Benton fan because he was unusually well written. Most shows may have a rough around the edges character, but those edges normally get smoothed away or the person becomes a full fledged evil character. Benton has his weaknesses but down deep he was a solid person--and his weaknesses made some sense. He had to work hard to get to where he was which sometimes does not leave room for good social skills or always thinking about others first. When I first started watching the show (season 2), I asked some friends who had started in season 1 whether I was supposed to like Benton. It wasn't obvious to me whether he was a good guy or bad guy. Few shows have that.

I've now got about 20 shows on my DVR from season 13 forward--recording on Saturdays. I'm kind of saving them up since I have other "live" shows I can watch. I want some of these to have to watch when all the live shows go into hiatus.

[debraran]

4 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

welcome new posters. I can echo lots of what has been said. I always particularly loved Benton and Carter. One of my favorite scenes will always be when Carter has the addiction problem, they confront him, Carter runs out, Mark says something about it being over and Benton goes after Carter--made so perfect by carter taking a swing at him and Benton telling him 'you want to fight? fine but your ass is getting in that van?" (I'm sure my quote is not 100% right but I loved that line). I loved the deep relationship and the fact they never messed it up. When Benton leaves, Carter goes for the sentimental goodbye and you can tell Benton appreciates it deep down, but Benton never gets sentimental back, they don't hug it out, etc. thank you show, for having Benton help out when Carter needs the transplant. It was the perfect note.

I was always a Benton fan because he was unusually well written. Most shows may have a rough around the edges character, but those edges normally get smoothed away or the person becomes a full fledged evil character. Benton has his weaknesses but down deep he was a solid person--and his weaknesses made some sense. He had to work hard to get to where he was which sometimes does not leave room for good social skills or always thinking about others first. When I first started watching the show (season 2), I asked some friends who had started in season 1 whether I was supposed to like Benton. It wasn't obvious to me whether he was a good guy or bad guy. Few shows have that.

I've now got about 20 shows on my DVR from season 13 forward--recording on Saturdays. I'm kind of saving them up since I have other "live" shows I can watch. I want some of these to have to watch when all the live shows go into hiatus.

I know, he hit him after the comment about his cousin and when he cried, I cried. I watch This is Us and it doesn't provoke those kind of emotions, I don't think until later in the years, it was trying to do it in a manipulative way, just trying to emulate what a good friendship would be, work relationship etc. The emotions felt real, while TIU feels like it's the entire point.

My favorite scenes that make me smile are with Benton/Carter.  Even when he tried to give him the  bus token back when Benton was leaving, you know his "they don't use those anymore" was to hide his obvious emotion that Carter kept it.  And you got the quote right. It was :

[Carter punches Benton] Benton: Carter you wanna fight that's cool man, but either way your getting your ass in that van.

I just watched when Carter visits his cousin and tells him he is an addict also. I didn't remember that and it was touching and funny. Carter changed a lot during the shows run and you just went along for the ride. Doug and Carol were intriguing when I was young, but now he seemed self-centered and the writers made him totally nuts toward the end and Carol was a bad martyr but I still loved them, but Doug and Mark more. That's why I hated when the writers just never had them verbally mention the couple calling or sending a card or anything after they left. They had a great friendship.

[RedbirdNelly]

9 minutes ago, debraran said:

I know, he hit him after the comment about his cousin and when he cried, I cried. I watch This is Us and it doesn't provoke those kind of emotions, I don't think until later in the years, it was trying to do it in a manipulative way, just trying to emulate what a good friendship would be, work relationship etc. The emotions felt real, while TIU feels like it's the entire point.

My favorite scenes that make me smile are with Benton/Carter.  Even when he tried to give him the  bus token back when Benton was leaving, you know his "they don't use those anymore" was to hide his obvious emotion that Carter kept it.  And you got the quote right. It was :

[Carter punches Benton] Benton: Carter you wanna fight that's cool man, but either way your getting your ass in that van.

I just watched when Carter visits his cousin and tells him he is an addict also. I didn't remember that and it was touching and funny. Carter changed a lot during the shows run and you just went along for the ride. Doug and Carol were intriguing when I was young, but now he seemed self-centered and the writers made him totally nuts toward the end and Carol was a bad martyr but I still loved them, but Doug and Mark more. That's why I hated when the writers just never had them verbally mention the couple calling or sending a card or anything after they left. They had a great friendship.

I am a This is Us watcher as well--though that show gets me in a different way. It's cathartic crying for me. I normally would not like a show that intentionally makes me cry--This Is Us clearly does; for whatever reason, I'm down with it.

I loved the bus token scene. I was so Benton to say they don't use them anymore. I agree with your take completely. I so love that the writers did not mess up that scene.

Carter was a great character. He wasn't perfect and there were times he was annoying but he felt very human.

I agree also on Doug and the funeral. I guess the writers didn't think it all the way through.  A mention of Doug and Carol would have helped so much. Otherwise I loved how so many did come back for the funeral--and it was done in a classy way.

[VCRTracking]

Fantastic write up by Alan Sepinwall at Uproxx:

A Tribute To ‘ER’ Doctors Benton And Carter, A Pair For The Ages

Excerpt:
 

Quote

Both Benton and Carter shone plenty as solo characters — which they mostly were after the end of season three, when Carter quit surgery to specialize in emergency medicine — but it was in their interplay that both truly came alive, and became the strongest relationship ER ever had. It wasn’t a romance, and it wasn’t even really a friendship, because the two didn’t socialize and would have been uncomfortable if they had. It was a straightforward mentor/protege combination, pairing two men with opposite but complementary temperaments — Benton the gruff genius, Carter the warm social butterfly — to bring each other to heights they couldn’t scale alone.

[debraran]

3 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Fantastic write up by Alan Sepinwall at Uproxx:

A Tribute To ‘ER’ Doctors Benton And Carter, A Pair For The Ages

Excerpt:
 

I agree with that piece. I also liked this blog. The video with Eric at the bottom when they wrapped up the show, Noah is adorable sneaking up on him.  : )  The one above it is a montage, not in order but sure to bring a smile or two.

https://ksanatomy.wordpress.com/2010/09/28/dr-benton-and-dr-carter-–-what-er-was-all-about/

Edited April 6, 2018 by debraran

[Drapers4thWife]

I was reading the recaps on Brilliant But Cancelled and really liked Heathen's description of Carter seeing his attacker, Paul Sobricki, again in the season 8 episode "Beyond Repair." 

 

Quote

Carter appears out of nowhere and gives Abby the lowdown on the diarrhea patient she fobbed off on him. Panicked, Abby realizes that Paris and child are visible from there, and she then spies Sobriki being wheeled down the hallway, so she steers Carter toward a room so that his back is facing the hallway. Abby proceeds to ask him some weak questions about a tot with abdominal pain. As she blathers on to keep him distracted, though, Sobriki starts chatting quietly to his child. Carter hears this. His eyes glaze as he processes that voice, and his body visibly tenses. He stares hard at Abby, willing her to prove him wrong even though he already knows who's behind him. Fear, anger, hurt, disbelief, and a hint of betrayal wash over his face in a split second, and the guilty expression on Abby's face gives away the game. Slowly, he turns and peeks around the corner. His slowly reddening eyes lock on Sobriki's frame. "They put you in restraints," Paris notes. "It's just a precaution," Sobriki says soothingly. "They're a little paranoid." Paris spots Carter and is visibly concerned; Sobriki turns and the two men finally make eye contact. "Oh, it's you," Sobriki says. "I'm sorry." He seems lightly remorseful, as though he hasn't considered the full emotional impact on Carter of his homicidal schizophrenic episode, or as if he'd just pricked him with a toothpick. Sobriki acts more concerned about proving he's better, as if that will magically heal the inner scars on Carter's soul and erase the memory of Carter's own struggles. Carter has barely blinked once. "What are you doing here?" Carter breathes. Paris shares that her hubby slipped and fell outside his office building; the latter two words gut Carter, who hadn't heard about the conditional release. "You're out," he spits, hatred and resentment in his eyes. "I'm sorry," Sobriki pleads, more earnest now. "That wasn't me who did that to you, to your friend. You know that, right? You're a doctor. You know it's a disease." Carter's neck vein throbs. "I'm being treated," persists Sobriki. "I'm okay now." Carter swallows hard, sickened, struggling against tears, or an outburst, or his primal urge to lash out at his former tormentor. "Great," he chokes. "Glad you're okay." He whirls around and leaves.

As Carter heads for the restroom, strains of "Battleflag" by Lo-Fidelity All-Stars plays -- the same song that played over the scene in which Sobriki committed the stabbings. Carter bursts into the bathroom and grabs the sink, leaning heavily on it and trying to collect his thoughts. He's clearly rattled that this troubled man, this schizophrenic killer, so casually asserts his complete normalcy when Carter -- the innocent victim -- struggled for so long and still can't say that he's completely recovered. And won't ever be able to say it, either, because his painkiller addiction will haunt him for the rest of his life. Noah Wyle manages to convey all this with simple facial expressions, and it's the best and most subtle performance he's given in a long time. As the music crescendos, Carter whips around, paranoid that the demon is behind him. Exhaling shakily, he splashes water on his face. But he hasn't completely regained equilibrium, and pukes violently into the sink. Yes, in searching for words, for a way to cope, for an expression of his every emotion at this second, Carter plumbs the depths of his soul and comes up with his breakfast.

[VCRTracking]

27 minutes ago, Drapers4thWife said:

I was reading the recaps on Brilliant But Cancelled and really liked Heathen's description of Carter seeing his attacker, Paul Sobricki, again in the season 8 episode "Beyond Repair." 

 

I hadn't seen that episode since it aired and so when I watched a clip of that scene yesterday I realized Sobriki is married to Paris Gellar! The episode was from 2002 so she was doing Gilmore Girls at the same time, but I hadn't been watching it yet. Yeah Noah Wyle was incredible in that scene, Carter reaction to hearing that voice again and seeing the man who killed Lucy and permanently left psychological scars as well as the reason for his painkiller addiction is "normal" now and happy with a family. Maybe it would have been better if the guy was more remorseful and felt guilty instead of saying "It wasn't me" or maybe that would have just made it worse.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I hadn't seen that episode since it aired and so when I watched a clip of that scene yesterday I realized Sobriki is married to Paris Gellar! The episode was from 2002 so she was doing Gilmore Girls at the same time, but I hadn't been watching it yet. Yeah Noah Wyle was incredible in that scene, Carter reaction to hearing that voice again and seeing the man who killed Lucy and permanently left psychological scars as well as the reason for his painkiller addiction is "normal" now and happy with a family. Maybe it would have been better if the guy was more remorseful and felt guilty instead of saying "It wasn't me" or maybe that would have just made it worse.

That was a well done scene, so many emotions, none wrong or right.

I'm watching the train wreck now, wow, that was a horrific episode, especially of when you think they didn't have as much to work with as they do now on the set. Corday in contractions, the flashbacks for Kovac and the blood and misery of the people involved.  Very well done.

[Drapers4thWife]

I've finally gotten to the Gamma death episodes, after reading the forum pages here debating Abby vs Carter's behavior during the whole thing. I think I see both points. I do think Abby's heart was in the right place - I think her comforting of Carter in the hallway was lovely, and I think she genuinely thought her brother would stay in the car during the funeral. However I think Carter was also right to feel abandoned by her in his time of need. This was the most important person in his life and he'd essentially been alone since he was a kid, and now here once again his parents have dropped the ball and he's left to do everything. What's important to me is that Carter really wanted Abby during this time (asking for her repeatedly) and asked for her help, but he wasn't her priority. I'm glad Carter realized it. 

What I think was particularly devastating for Carter is the way his relationship with Gamma changed after the stabbing. They weren't even on speaking terms when it happened but she was the (only?) relative who came to him in the hospital and he then moved in with her after his release. His scenes with her after that were some of my favorites. She was so sweet with him: making him soup and holding his hand during his bouts of insomnia, making him breakfast, trying to get him to see her doctor about his back, now supporting him in work as a doctor, etc. She went from being a kind of no-nonsense ice queen in the first few seasons to...well, a grandma! But in a way that you could still see her being a bosslady when it came to the foundation and her work, etc. It sucks, too, because despite having friends at County, I think Gamma and Benton were the only ones who were really there for Carter after the attack. Then Gamma herself got sick and grew to rely on Carter in turn, so I think the two were bonded in her last years in a much deeper and different way than they would have been had Carter not had his brush with death. 

[Gigi43]

Watching "Old Times" on Pop. Doesn't  matter that Doug didn't think of Carters name to ask, because Carter has Benton taunting him with energy bars and inviting himself to his surgery.  It doesn't get old that Carter clearly was waiting for a comment about Kem being black by showing Benton the picture, the arm motion to get it over with, and of course he got it. I'll  take Benton/Carter over Carol/Doug any day.

 

Its still absolute Bullshit though that Doug didn't ask if they ever knew Mark, no matter how many times I see it.

 

They really went out of their way to show a slight connection of staff. No nurses mentioned, who are there that worked with Doug and were Carol's friends. If Carol was in the scene she would have known Abby. Could have been interesting if Sam or Neela mentioned Kovach and got a begrudging "we never met..." from Doug as a wink to Carol must have mentioned  him at some point.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Gigi43

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Gigi43 said:

Watching "Old Times" on Pop. Doesn't  matter that Doug didn't think of Carters name to ask, because Carter has Benton taunting him with energy bars and inviting himself to his surgery.  It doesn't get old that Carter clearly was waiting for a comment about Kem being black by showing Benton the picture, the arm motion to get it over with, and of course he got it. I'll  take Benton/Carter over Carol/Doug any day.

 

Its still absolute Bullshit though that Doug didn't ask if they ever knew Mark, no matter how many times I see it.

 

They really went out of their way to show a slight connection of staff. No nurses mentioned, who are there that worked with Doug and were Carol's friends. If Carol was in the scene she would have known Abby. Could have been interesting if Sam or Neela mentioned Kovach and got a begrudging "we never met..." from Doug as a wink to Carol must have mentioned  him at some point.

 

Love the smirk on Carter's face as he watches Benton get his first look at Kem.  He knew what Benton's reaction was going to be and couldn't wait for it.

I guess the whole point of Doug asking about people at County who weren't there anymore was to remind us all it had been about a decade since he'd left.  For that matter, why wouldn't Doug have asked about Carter?  He was still around and an ER resident, to boot, at the time Doug (and Carol) left.  Of course, had he mentioned Carter, Neela or Sam might've remembered that Carter was just in the ER in renal failure and transferred to Northwestern and someone might've guessed where the kidney was going.

Edited April 7, 2018 by doodlebug

[Drapers4thWife]

Upon rewatch, I really didn't dig the Mark/Doug friendship much. They didn't seem that close to me and were often at odds. 

[slasherboy]

no words necessary

[starri]

On 4/5/2018 at 1:18 PM, lianau said:

I think Lucy in lot of ways was the opposite of Carter . She was book smart but struggled with medical procedures , something Carter never had an issue with. And Carter was too inexperienced as a teacher to be able to help her with that because he just got impatient with her . Be Still My Heart is sort of the accumulation of their problems in a way , Lucy is trying to talk to him and Carter is just blowing her off and not listening . 

Rewatching the show, my opinion of Lucy changed a lot once I knew what it was like to be a med student forced to work with a resident that you don't have very good chemistry with.

Carter turned out to be a great teacher in the end, but I've kind of used his interactions with Lucy as an example of what not to do when I have students.  I even felt bad when I had to tell a group of (otherwise terrific) students that they needed to take shorter lunch breaks.

I wonder how many other doctors in my age range would say that Carter was an impetus for their career choices.

[Drapers4thWife]

I'm really glad they never followed through on the Lucy/Carter flirtation. Noah Wyle was right that the chemistry was more older brother/younger sister. I think their prickly relationship ended up being a big reason why the stabbing and Lucy's death had so much impact, as Carter's survivor's guilt ended up tied into his regrets about how he treated Lucy. I think it was also realistic that Carter wasn't that good at knowing how to handle his first student. 

The ER writers were never very good at not forcing every male and female character into a relationship when they really would have been better as friends. Abby and Luka both were a lot better in the time period when they were friends, after they broke up and before they got back together, then they were as a couple. I don't think Susan clicked with anyone really, including Mark. 

I'm the rare fan of Abby/Carter in theory, but not the way the writers handled it. First, it made no sense that Carter suddenly was afraid to act on his crush after Luka and Abby broke up. I could understand him not wanting to right after she became single because he was still concerned she had feelings for Luka, but really after months of Abby being single and expressed explicit interest in him it became ridiculous. Carter had never been shown to be gunshy when it came to relationships before. It was clearly the writers floundering at artificially keeping a will they/won't they thing with Carter and Abby going on AND a will they/won't they thing with Luka/Abby at the same time. (Oh another ridiculous thing was Carter and Lewis not having sex in the two months they were together, when both were characters who hit the sheets pretty quickly with previous partners). 

It would have been nice if the writers explored the similarities between Abby and Carter, it might've laid the solid foundation for a relationship. Despite the class differences, both Carter and Abby were caretaker types with absentee mothers, traumatic childhoods, addiction issues and even beloved brothers. There's a lot there that could've been explored. 

My partner got so mad when we watched the sexual harassment bottle episode where everyone acted like an asshole. I don't know why, but I was annoyed at Susan the most. I thought her needling Carter about how great his life had been because he was rich was kind of cruel considering I'm guessing she knew about the death of his brother (she sure volunteered crap about Carter's dad so she had some familiarity with his family). And her cackling at his revelation that he'd been molested as a kid was gross.

[WendyCR72]

32 minutes ago, Drapers4thWife said:

And her cackling at his revelation that he'd been molested as a kid was gross.

 

Okay, but Abby knew almost as much by that point...and she was cackling right along with Susan. That whole episode was annoying veering into disgusting. And - as I opined before - I think Susan was wildly out of character for that gross stunt. Later Susan and Early Susan basically only had Sherry Stringfield playing both versions in common. What the later writers did to the character was appalling.

But then, the whole construct of that episode to land the four there made no sense, anyway. While the doctors had parties in the ER in the past and pulled some pranks, the resulting juvenile antics were completely ridiculous in that episode. For all four.

[Amethyst]

Having just seen the finale and the last few eps again, I know it leaves a few things open to interpretation.  For one thing, Peter and Elizabeth still had a little spark going, but Peter and Cleo were still together, and she was an associate professor at a university.  I just think it felt like a "what could have been" moment.  That said, while I understood Eriq La Salle's reasoning why he didn't want Peter and Elizabeth together in the first place, I could definitely see them rekindling things after all that time.

Then there's Carter and Kem.  I know Carter was going to call Kem, but him jumping in to help the other doctors implied that Carter realized that he could still be happy without her.  I actually liked Carter and Kem together, but six years had passed and there was nowhere for them to go.  Carter had moved to France to be with Kem, yet they still seemed like they were right back at the point when they lost Joshua.  Time wasn't healing these wounds, I think they were just done.  I don't blame Kem, really.  Carter reminded her too much of what she had lost.  So, phone call or not, I hope these two moved on from each other to find love elsewhere.  Just stop dragging that out.

Assuming Carter started working at the ER again, he couldn't have the same position as before, right?  Banning was in charge, and Carter said he would be fundraising for the rest of his life to keep money coming in at the Carter Center.  I think that would take up a sizable amount of his time.

All the old cast members slipped into their roles like they never left in Old Times, but as a Benton/Carter fan, their scenes were priceless.  I'm glad that Benton was happy in his new digs, even though he clearly did it for Reese.  But he was still the same guy, taking charge when necessary.  Him barking out "Carter!" when he couldn't find Carter was straight up fan service, lol. 

And Carter, who'd been put through the wringer, virtually lit up when Benton arrived and he remained that way for the whole episode.  So sweet.  It really was like watching two old friends reminisce.  You can tell that Eriq and Noah are friends IRL.  

Loved Morris' arc.  Guy went from an absolute mess to one of the best doctors in the ER.  He and Claudia were very cute.  That would have been a nice wedding to see.

Bremmer was terrible.  It was like they took the worst of Abby and Luka and put it in a new person.  It was just too late to introduce another character who was a train wreck.  Glad that he ended up ok and in therapy, but I wouldn't miss him.

[debraran]

In watching "Survival of the Fittest" yesterday (seem to be on the same month as the show for now) I thought it was nice to see another nicer Romano moment. He was disgusting dealing with the gay psychiatrist and I can't believe even back then, that was acceptable (although Anspaugh was the reasonable other side.]

When Corday was going into surgery he offered to scrub in. He makes a crack about her reaching the table, she says something about "at least she can see it"  He says:

Romano: I was going to offer to assist after my AV shunt but not if you're going to go prenatal on me!
Corday: If you really want to help, you can order me some pizza and ice cream.
Romano: ...do you think you need it?

Later after the surgery turns into an over 5 hour affair with Corday having swollen feet and ankles and a full bladder, she is complaining to Mark and saying she is going on maternity leave and she doesn't have to prove anything to anyone anymore. Then you see:

Randi: Dr. Corday your dinner has arrived.
Corday: (reads the note) "Nice work, Mom!" It's from Robert!
Greene: Maybe we should have somebody taste it first?
Corday: I'm so hungry.
Greene: Pepperoni pizza...
Corday: And ice cream.
Greene: Cherry Garcia!
Corday: Let's go for the ice cream, first.

Mark spoon feeds her as the camera goes out.  : )  I wish there were more nice Romano moments, I always felt he was a turd but not anywhere as bad as he was portrayed. He always had a "date" some beautiful woman on his arm but seemed to live alone. A lot not explored there and I stopped watching when they did what they did with him and helicopter. I think the ER writers quit that week. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by debraran

[doodlebug]

Weird that, although Cleo and Peter were still together that 1) they weren’t married and 2)She didn’t come with him to the Carter Center dedication.  I know the character never caught on with the fans and maybe the actress wasn’t available, but Cleo worked with Carter and knew all of the others back in town for the ceremony; you’d think she would’ve been there.

As for Carter and Kem; what with the Carter Center and his commitment to fundraising; Carter had to be planning to spend a considerable portion of his future in Chicago.  He also clearly felt at home working at County.  Meanwhile, every time Kem was mentioned the past few seasons, she was in France with her mother, it looks like her work in the Congo ended when the baby died.  Carter also said he’d worked in Darfur the past 5 years which is NOT the Congo. So, even if they got back together, where could they live?  Kem has bad memories of Chicago, sounds like she stayed in a hotel rather than with Carter in the house they’d lived in before.  She also hadn’t come when he’d had the transplant a month or two earlier.  If Kem is now living in France, what would Carter do there?  If Chicago holds too many sad memories for her, how can Carter stay there and keep his commitment to the Center?  I hope the breakfast meeting was to agree to an amicable divorce.

I, too, love seeing Benton take care of Carter, especially after he realized there was no one there for him.  He just stepped up, didn’t take ‘no’ for an answer and stayed right with Carter until he woke up. I’m also certain Carter only decided to call Kem because Benton told him to do it. And, once again, the fact she didn’t come to be with him then speaks volumes about their future.

Edited April 8, 2018 by doodlebug

[starri]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I wish there were more nice Romano moments, I always felt he was a turd but not anywhere as bad as he was portrayed

I don't think Romano as a character would play very well in a post #MeToo world. Using my 2018 eyes to watch the story where Kerry investigates him for sexual harassment and the only consequence was that he got blackmailed in to changing Maggie's grade, I was really uncomfortable, and it made it hard to enjoy the rest of his tenure

[Drapers4thWife]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

8 hours ago, Drapers4thWife said:

And her cackling at his revelation that he'd been molested as a kid was gross.

 

Okay, but Abby knew almost as much by that point...and she was cackling right along with Susan. That whole episode was annoying veering into disgusting. And - as I opined before - I think Susan was wildly out of character for that gross stunt. Later Susan and Early Susan basically only had Sherry Stringfield playing both versions in common. What the later writers did to the character was appalling.

Yes, Abby was laughing but Susan was the one making the gross comments ("Hope she got a Christmas bonus!") AND the one who had just abruptly ditched an about to confess molestation victim in the previous episode (little girl who'd gained a bunch of weight after her mom married her stepfather). It was not a shining moment for Abby for sure but Susan drew my ire. 

It's interesting to go back and read some 2002 era comments debating about whether it was child abuse. Here's Heathen in the TWOP recap:

Quote

"Carter," Abby prods. "Come on!" He doesn't want to play. "Oh, my God, you're still a virgin!" Susan gapes, probably only half-kidding. Carter rolls his eyes at her and says he was eleven when he first had sex. Susan gasps, and wow, it's pretty horrible acting. I don't know how else to describe it. Everyone's pretty startled. When asked, Carter admits the instrument of his deflowering was a twenty-five-year-old maid. They crack up, and he shakes his head, the merest hint of a smile on his face. "Hope you gave her a hell of a Christmas bonus," Susan snickers. Carter reddens and stares out the window. A lot of people have called this a case of child abuse, but Carter's demeanor, while solemn, isn't terribly traumatized. I have a hard time reading "child abuse" into Noah Wyle's performance. I just can't tell what's going on here, and frankly, I think it's a plot point they either need to make clear, or not bother with at all. If it was abuse, it's a pretty major part of who Carter is, and to gloss over it this way is ridiculous. Either way, though, the raucous laughter of Susan and Abby comes off bitchy and grating.

Well, of course, there's no question now it IS child abuse. There's no getting around that. A 25 year old adult having any sexual contact, but especially full blown intercourse, with an 11 year old child is straight up rape. I (would hope) that wouldn't be a question now, regardless of genders. But I was bracing myself for an "atta boy" recounting of this tale when watching the episode again, and was surprised at how subtle/shamed Carter acted and the silence of the guys. Carter was not exactly one to share his problems easily and it was a sensitive issue, so that's one part of the episode that rings true.  

The fencing was beyond stupid for a whole host of reasons. First, the swords were in a props closet off a classroom (not a recreation area/gym) so they must've been used for English/drama class. There's no way they'd be sharp, nevermind Olympic level sharp. Second, two people with claimed fencing experience (Luka and Carter) would never do that without protection. Third, one of them is a stabbing victim with PTSD would never have done that without protection. Fourth, one of them is the doctor who TREATED said stabbing victim and would never have fenced with that victim without protection. So dumb. 

Re: Romano. Yeah, there were several incidents of him being nice and showing a heart, especially with Elizabeth. However as a gay woman myself, it's really hard to look past at his awful homophobia and misogyny. Probably the thing that has aged the worst was Romano's blatant sexual harassment in the early seasons. 

Quote

I don't think Romano as a character would play very well in a post #MeToo world. Using my 2018 eyes to watch the story where Kerry investigates him for sexual harassment and the only consequence was that he got blackmailed in to changing Maggie's grade, I was really uncomfortable, and it made it hard to enjoy the rest of his tenure

Jinx! We posted at the same time, starri, but you said it better. Romano's treatment of women was pretty vile and it's hard to imagine today any show attempting the "he's the character you love to hate!" with him. But anyway, Paul McCrane was always great as the character and able to play asshole Romano as well as the rarely redeemable moments. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Drapers4thWife

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Drapers4thWife said:

Re: Romano. Yeah, there were several incidents of him being nice and showing a heart, especially with Elizabeth. However as a gay woman myself, it's really hard to look past at his awful homophobia and misogyny. Probably the thing that has aged the worst was Romano's blatant sexual harassment in the early seasons. 

Jinx! We posted at the same time, starri, but you said it better. Romano's treatment of women was pretty vile and it's hard to imagine today any show attempting the "he's the character you love to hate!" with him. But anyway, Paul McCrane was always great as the character and able to play asshole Romano as well as the rarely redeemable moments. 

 

That's true, but I am loathe to say I still hear and see it in the medical world. I just heard another homophobic comment by a doctor and another used to make comments about women's bodies and ask if I thought something was too low cut on someone or attractive. (He has left) When I comment, they usually apologize or just walk away but I'm labeled I'm sure.  It's less but certainly not gone. It makes me sadder when they are younger because older men you can say are so used to it, although my family they were pretty forward thinking.  Some have to work harder to change but younger men, it make me even more angry. It made me uncomfortable to listen to Romano at times but he was the worst of what is out there all in one character. I thought his background and why he was like that was never explored because he was there for one purpose. He wasn't married it seemed, had a dog whom he loved, had "dates" and I'm sure with his cash, could have found a wife. He liked certain women and respected them in his own way, he just never let on or broke his demeanor. The writers would have him do a kind thing for Elizabeth or show him signing with Reese or letting a patient who can't pay get something , even at Lizzy's wedding, he was funny and sweet to her. But then have him just awful.  I guess that is the way it is for most people though, they have more than one side.

Edited April 8, 2018 by debraran

[jjj]

Last time I posted here was early November!  Like back in the early 2000s, I just got lost in trying to follow the show after Carol left, and barely managed to see the episode(s) when Mark died.  I did see the final episode a month or two back when it aired during the week, and I see that yesterday they finally got to the final episode on the Saturday cycle, so are starting all over again next Saturday.  I also caught the bit yesterday of the Carter transplant episode where Doug was asking about Benton, Abby, Susan, Ansbaugh, but NOT CARTER!  What cracks me up is that the writers act like Doug is on another planet with no way to contact/connect with his former colleagues, *who are still in the same profession*.  There are conferences all the time, and they hire in and out of various hospitals all the time, so professional connections are maintained, even if Doug would not be talking directly to those former colleagues.  But it's like Carol and Doug have been living off the grid on Pluto, never making a phone call or emailing, or visiting *Carol's mother* back in Chicago.  

Okay, I'll go back off the grid now.  :-)  

[debraran]

29 minutes ago, jjj said:

Last time I posted here was early November!  Like back in the early 2000s, I just got lost in trying to follow the show after Carol left, and barely managed to see the episode(s) when Mark died.  I did see the final episode a month or two back when it aired during the week, and I see that yesterday they finally got to the final episode on the Saturday cycle, so are starting all over again next Saturday.  I also caught the bit yesterday of the Carter transplant episode where Doug was asking about Benton, Abby, Susan, Ansbaugh, but NOT CARTER!  What cracks me up is that the writers act like Doug is on another planet with no way to contact/connect with his former colleagues, *who are still in the same profession*.  There are conferences all the time, and they hire in and out of various hospitals all the time, so professional connections are maintained, even if Doug would not be talking directly to those former colleagues.  But it's like Carol and Doug have been living off the grid on Pluto, never making a phone call or emailing, or visiting *Carol's mother* back in Chicago.  

Okay, I'll go back off the grid now.  :-)  

Or that Carol had to tidy up with paperwork at the hospital when she took off, get checks, sell her house and car, etc. Not a Xmas card was sent or a pic of the twins (it's not like they were Clooney's real ones)  ; )

Well, almost perfect writing in some areas, dropped the ball in others.

[Gigi43]

Romanos death has made his awful moments, I don't  know  but some how more tolerable , for lack of a better term. He can be truly awful at times.  But hey I know he's  going to have an effing helicopter  fall on him in the shows dumbest stunt to get rid of someone, and it'll be played as a wonderful lucky thing for Morris, who Romano was actually absolutely right to fire in that case. Romano being a dick doesn't make it okay for Morris to smoke a stolen joint outside and I just deeply hate that was the tone. So it's not like Romano really gets away with his behavior in the end. Maybe if his death had been better done I'd feel diiferent if he had a halfway decent send off that was good TV; but then again I find Lucy less annoying  in reruns because I know in a season and a half, she'll  really be gone and that was excellently done. All these years later before the reruns started again I remember the shock of her on the floor. All In The Family is probably my favorite episode. It even had some very human Romano scenes when he was working on her. Also Paul McCrane played him so damn well it was ashame to lose him especially when less talented people were starting to take over.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Gigi43

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Or that Carol had to tidy up with paperwork at the hospital when she took off, get checks, sell her house and car, etc. Not a Xmas card was sent or a pic of the twins (it's not like they were Clooney's real ones)  ; )

Well, almost perfect writing in some areas, dropped the ball in others.

In one of the episodes in the last couple seasons, Haleh does comment on Carol and Doug and mention how big the twins are getting, so, Carol, at least, had some contact with her former nursing colleagues.  I trained in a huge community hospital with hundreds of residents, sort of like County.  I wasn't in contact with most of the people I trained with by10 years and I live less than a 3 hour drive from the city where I trained.    I also attend my share of conferences, and, while I occasionally run into someone I knew back then, it doesn't happen very often.  For that matter, Carol is now a transplant coordinator, Carol is not likely attending the same conferences as her former nursing colleagues and the same could be said of Doug, a Pediatric ER specialist.  Not to be sexist or anything, I think men are less likely to keep in touch, especially when they're living thousands of miles away.  While Carol's mom maybe still lived in Chicago (and Doug's mom seemed to be nearby, too), it's quite possible that one or both have died or retired or moved away in the decade since they left.

I've kept in touch with the two women who trained with me in OB/GYN when I was a resident and I consider them both good friends, but it is often years between visits.  One lives a 3 hour drive away and, although we talk about it, it's hard to coordinate schedules; it's been 4-5 years although we email and text and send cards, notes, etc.  The other lives hundreds of miles away and I went more than a decade without seeing her, even though I am godmother to one of her kids (and it was at said kid's wedding that we reunited).  I had gone years without seeing a guy I trained with who is from the area where I now practice.  We got back in contact several years ago when his daughter(!) joined my practice. And, yes, I remembered her from when I was a resident, but she didn't remember me being an infant and all when we 'met'.

Edited April 8, 2018 by doodlebug

[slasherboy]

On 3/30/2018 at 10:18 AM, Amethyst said:

I think the emotional fallout happened over the course of the season.  Alex had seen Sam kill Steve, but Alex couldn’t talk to anyone about it.  So he’s got all this pent up emotion and starts getting in trouble at school.  In the end, Sam sent him away to a school for at risk teens.  I think that’s the last we saw of him, thankfully.

Amethyst, Alex returned during the last few episodes (or maybe just one episode; wasn't paying attention to him that closely).  I wouldn't have remembered that except that they were shown just yesterday.  He seemed to have redeemed himself and he and Tony worked together to re-build a Mustang for Sam as a surprise gift.  She mentioned that he was 16 now.  He seemed like a good kid so I didn't mind his return.

 

On 3/31/2018 at 11:08 PM, Amethyst said:

 Dude just went flailing in the hole. 

Amethyst, funniest sentence ever!

 

On 4/1/2018 at 5:53 AM, debraran said:

I don't remember that scene with Susan, haven't gotten to that season yet in re watching. but that was a little classless of her. lol   Guess if they married, no one was invited.  : )

Debraran, what scene with classless Susan are you referring to?  I never liked Susan, not even her first time around.  

[debraran]

16 minutes ago, slasherboy said:

 

Debraran, what scene with classless Susan are you referring to?  I never liked Susan, not even her first time around.  

 

I was responding to this:

I fell for that Doug/Carol scene, cheesiness and all.  I remember when Susan returned, the nurses were telling her that Carol left without a word to join Doug in Seattle and they're very happy.  Susan was surprised because Carol hadn't told her.  

I was thinking in jest, I guess she wasn't invited to any wedding, christening or whatever with the Doug/Carol duo.

[Amethyst]

16 minutes ago, slasherboy said:

Amethyst, Alex returned during the last few episodes (or maybe just one episode; wasn't paying attention to him that closely).  I wouldn't have remembered that except that they were shown just yesterday.  He seemed to have redeemed himself and he and Tony worked together to re-build a Mustang for Sam as a surprise

gift.  She mentioned that he was 16 now.  He seemed like a good kid so I didn't mind his return.

Yep, I saw that one, lol.  I didn't realize that Alex had come back, let alone that he was 16.  But he was in a better place so I went with it.

Secrets and Lies is a weird experiment.  The exposition didn't really bother me, but it's a weird bottle episode with two grown men actually sword fighting over a woman's affections.  I almost felt bad for Susan because Carter obviously wasn't into her, and then you have poor Gallant as the audience surrogate. 

And although Carter is practically the villain, he's the one who ultimately ends up with Abby, despite her and Luka being the more compatible pair.  The whole episode was just really sitcommy and childish in retrospect.  The only saving grace was Weaver's expression after finding the dildo in her locker.

I can see why people are so outraged that Abby and Susan were laughing about Carter, but I'm not surprised in the least.  Sexual harassment/rape in men has always been played for comedy (see Wedding Crashers) and we know if the genders had been reversed, no one would have found this funny at all.  But FWIW, I agree with Heather's review that Wyle doesn't play the moment as someone who's necessarily ashamed, but rather embarrassed by the whole thing. 

That said, it's still gross, and this joke would not make it to air these days.  The "I hope you paid her a good bonus" line was really in poor taste.  Maybe they learned their lesson, because later on, Bremmer was shown to be a victim of child abuse and it definitely wasn't played for laughs.

 

11 hours ago, debraran said:

I wish there were more nice Romano moments, I always felt he was a turd but not anywhere as bad as he was portrayed. He always had a "date" some beautiful woman on his arm but seemed to live alone. A lot not explored there and I stopped watching when they did what they did with him and helicopter. I think the ER writers quit that week. 

I think Romano really was awful as he seemed, but the writers wasted an opportunity to flesh him out further after he lost his arm.  They would throw him a bone here and there, but they just settled on keeping him miserable and just decided to get rid of him.  Character connections helped anchor them to the show, and Romano didn't have any besides Elizabeth.  Since nothing happened between them, he was just kind of there, being unhappy.  

[Drapers4thWife]

Romano losing his arm was genuinely shocking, I'll give them that. Him being killed by the helicopter later though was just laughable. 

24 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

And although Carter is practically the villain, he's the one who ultimately ends up with Abby, despite her and Luka being the more compatible pair.  The whole episode was just really sitcommy and childish in retrospect.  The only saving grace was Weaver's expression after finding the dildo in her locker.

Carter was written so bizarrely in Secrets & Lies - and didn't John Wells write it, even??  It didn't fit with his behavior at all before or since. Such a shitty episode for my favorite character. I don't remember enjoying Carter particularly in the original run (I think Greene was my favorite back then because I was a weird nerd as a teen) but far away he's my favorite this time around. 

Count me in as not liking Susan very much, including on rewatch, either in her first or second stint. Maybe it was Sherry Stringfield as an actress (she was never very impressive) but I didn't think Susan was a very good doctor. If I were to rank all the ER docs, I think Carter was the best, followed by Luka in second. Both IMO had the perfect balance of technical skill, compassion, bedside manner and knowledge as to when to bend the rules vs. when to pull back (something Doug lacked). 

[debraran]

On 4/4/2018 at 11:42 AM, tallykat said:

Hopefully will finish up the first season soon, but just thinking that getting through all the seasons will be a 6-month project! Never liked Doug. Am not really liking Carol. Really? You can't understand why you aren't allowed to adopt a child when you are just nine months post-suicide attempt? And I thought that Mark actually did move to Kenosha for a year but it didn't work out. Funny that it was the crazy guy that suggested it. Jen had a point about everything being about him for the last 7 years, but hey, Jen, guess what? Your husband is a doctor! They were really both too selfish to make it work. 

Reading all the comments about all the negative things that happened on the show, I'm going to try and focus on the positive--like when, um, you know, that one, um...I'm sure there's something.

Funny how maturity can effect how you feel. As a teen, I felt bad that Carol couldn't adopt Tatiana, but yes, you are right, she was a nurse and didn't understand why she was a risk? Going to see her therapist and working is fine, but she had a (in real life) fatal ingestion of meds, she was serious and adding the stress of a child with Aids and technically still being single and needing child care  and support is a big warning sign to any agency. She was always vague about her suicide, not Doug but "many things coming at once". I hated seeing that girl being abandoned but understood more as an adult, why Carol wasn't the perfect candidate and Tag didn't really want it either.

I liked Mark with Corday better than Jen. They seemed more mature and less at odds. Both Jen and Mark had good reasons to do what they wanted to do but there wasn't as much conversation before Rachel and after on what compromise they would do. Mark knew he wanted to stay at County, to say his wife had to stay in Chicago should have been hashed out earlier but that doesn't make for TV drama. I've seen that in real life too, working at a large teaching hospital. I've seen many women compromise more, usually getting degrees second being younger or helping husband finish. Some couples had nanny or other childcare take care of kids while they worked very long hours. Some women stayed home until they were 4 or 5 and took jobs where it was more 8 hours even as nurse's PA's or doctor's. It all comes down to what you want and lots and lots of conversation.

Edited April 9, 2018 by debraran

[Driad]

18 hours ago, Amethyst said:

I think Romano really was awful as he seemed, but the writers wasted an opportunity to flesh him out further after he lost his arm.

Agreed. They could have written a good arc about him adapting to a different specialty. Paul McCrane was certainly a talented enough actor.

[doodlebug]

28 minutes ago, Driad said:

Agreed. They could have written a good arc about him adapting to a different specialty. Paul McCrane was certainly a talented enough actor.

There was a lot they could've done with Romano, including, perhaps giving him some sort of backstory to help explain his personality. Early in his tenure on the show, we heard he'd hired a limo to take his mother out to eat on Mother's Day.  How did that fit in with the misogyny we saw later?  And how did his obvious reluctance/reticence to ask Elizabeth for a date figure into the rest of his schtick?  Or his affection for Lucy even though she disrupted his holiday plans?  Paul McCrane is a talented actor, he could've handled a lot more than they gave him.  And, as noted above, a very poignant and interesting storyline could've come out of Romano after the accident and how he had to adapt once a major piece of his identity was lost.  I've known a couple of surgeons who were forced to leave the OR due to health issues; their personal struggles to find a meaningful way to use their talents in other areas of medicine would've made for interesting stuff for the show.  It's also something that happens to a lot of people; things change and they're forced to adapt.

[debraran]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

There was a lot they could've done with Romano, including, perhaps giving him some sort of backstory to help explain his personality. Early in his tenure on the show, we heard he'd hired a limo to take his mother out to eat on Mother's Day.  How did that fit in with the misogyny we saw later?  And how did his obvious reluctance/reticence to ask Elizabeth for a date figure into the rest of his schtick?  Or his affection for Lucy even though she disrupted his holiday plans?  Paul McCrane is a talented actor, he could've handled a lot more than they gave him.  And, as noted above, a very poignant and interesting storyline could've come out of Romano after the accident and how he had to adapt once a major piece of his identity was lost.  I've known a couple of surgeons who were forced to leave the OR due to health issues; their personal struggles to find a meaningful way to use their talents in other areas of medicine would've made for interesting stuff for the show.  It's also something that happens to a lot of people; things change and they're forced to adapt.

I agree, too late now, but a lost opportunity. I watched Mark's wedding a couple of days ago, he was actually quite adorable in his remarks. His first quote was

Dr. Robert Romano: Good evening, gentlemen.

[Malucci and Carter stare at him]

Dr. Robert Romano: What? Didn't think I'd be invited? So, where's the bride?Dr. Dave Malucci: [points] She's in there waiting. Dr. Greene hasn't shown up yet.

Dr. Robert Romano: Really? Well, if he's smart, he's halfway to Mexico by now.

Later, he tells Lizzy the guests are getting restless and placing bets,  he has a 50.00 bet on his not coming. Then he says if she waits a few minutes more for him, he will lose it since he just heard he is on his way after saving a pregnant woman.  Then he starts to close the door and looks back and pauses to tell her how beautiful she looks and how lucky Mark is . She smiles and you know underneath, she 's the only one who sees his humanity, even later when he's hurt or when he dies.

Someone told me he counsels her about Mark's returning tumor later, but I don't remember that and luckily have some time before it returns. She just had the baby in my Hulu binge. ; )

Edited April 9, 2018 by debraran

[BooksRule]

Earlier today I watched the episode with Carter's grandmother's funeral.  I had totally forgotten about Eric disrupting the service (and even falling into the grave).  No wonder Carter went to Africa to escape for a while.  I know that part where Carter goes upstairs to see Gamma one more time was sad, but I was distracted by the thought of wondering how much Frances Sternhagen was paid to just lie still on the bed for about a minute.  I'll miss Gamma.  

And (in the next episode), although I had been reminded here that Doc Magoo's burns, I didn't remember it happening so soon.  I was thinking that it happened near the end of the series (not in season 9).

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

 

Someone told me he counsels her about Mark's returning tumor later, but I don't remember that and luckily have some time before it returns. She just had the baby in my Hulu binge. ; )

 

Yes, it's a very good scene.  Mark and Elizabeth separate and are living apart when she finds out his tumor has returned, his prognosis is terrible and he's getting chemo.  She expresses her fears to Romano, asking him if she really should return to her husband only to watch him die.  Romano listens to what she has to say and lays it out in simple terms; telling her what she already knows.

7 minutes ago, BooksRule said:

Earlier today I watched the episode with Carter's grandmother's funeral.  I had totally forgotten about Eric disrupting the service (and even falling into the grave).  No wonder Carter went to Africa to escape for a while.  I know that part where Carter goes upstairs to see Gamma one more time was sad, but I was distracted by the thought of wondering how much Frances Sternhagen was paid to just lie still on the bed for about a minute.  I'll miss Gamma.  

And (in the next episode), although I had been reminded here that Doc Magoo's burns, I didn't remember it happening so soon.  I was thinking that it happened near the end of the series (not in season 9).

Yep, it's replaced by the Jumbo Mart for reasons unknown.  

BTW, Frances Sternhagen (Gamma) is still alive and 88 years old.  She was still acting as of a few years ago.

Edited April 10, 2018 by doodlebug

[voiceover]

Probably my favorite Benton/Carter moment was at the end of Season 2: "John Carter, M.D."

John had skipped his graduation ceremony to play cards with an anxious young patient.  Jeanie had just blown apart Peter's world (revealing her HIV status).  IIRC, he was sitting on the floor of one the procedure rooms, staring at nothing.

Carter comes in, it's the usual limited exchange, but then something occurs to Benton:

"You're the 'Doctor' now," he grins up at his student.

And you just knew, that that moment for Carter, was his "real graduation".

[debraran]

I just saw his grandfather's funeral and there was a portrait of 2 very cute boys on the wall at Gamma's house, about 6 or 8, I assumed one was Carter (looked like him) and the other his brother who passed away. I suppose his sister is like Doug's son, mentioned once or twice but then an added character, not really needed.  Doug did have a kids picture on his locker but that might have been anyone's kid, even one he saved as a doctor.

The parents of the show's characters are always interesting, not many "normal dysfunctional" but interesting.  Sally Field was the best as Abby's mom and later I hear her dad drops in.  Mark's were easy to relate too and I really liked his dad, especially with Elizabeth's Mom ; ) Doug's dad was sad but realistic, no smoothing the edges, he was what he was, good or bad.  I would have liked to meet Romano's mother, bet she would have been a character, the only one to keep him in line : ) I remember Mother's Day after Romano mentions his mother, Haleh seems surprised, Romano said to Haleh, What? You didn't think I had a mother did you? Haleh is like "just trying to picture her"

Sometimes I think Haleh never leaves the ER but they do touch a little on her background and others but not much. Really the backbone in many ways while the other characters go through their emotional lives. Someone has to keep the place humming.

Edited April 10, 2018 by debraran

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:17 PM, debraran said:

I agree, too late now, but a lost opportunity. I watched Mark's wedding a couple of days ago, he was actually quite adorable in his remarks. His first quote was

Dr. Robert Romano: Good evening, gentlemen.

[Malucci and Carter stare at him]

Dr. Robert Romano: What? Didn't think I'd be invited? So, where's the bride?Dr. Dave Malucci: [points] She's in there waiting. Dr. Greene hasn't shown up yet.

Dr. Robert Romano: Really? Well, if he's smart, he's halfway to Mexico by now.

Later, he tells Lizzy the guests are getting restless and placing bets,  he has a 50.00 bet on his not coming. Then he says if she waits a few minutes more for him, he will lose it since he just heard he is on his way after saving a pregnant woman.  Then he starts to close the door and looks back and pauses to tell her how beautiful she looks and how lucky Mark is . She smiles and you know underneath, she 's the only one who sees his humanity, even later when he's hurt or when he dies.

Someone told me he counsels her about Mark's returning tumor later, but I don't remember that and luckily have some time before it returns. She just had the baby in my Hulu binge. ; )

this was always one of my favorite Romano lines--the didn't think I'd be invited part. They always gave him good lines and the actor delivered them perfectly. Looking back I wish they had not cut off his arm and had him stick around, always rough around the edges but a little smoothed over as time went by. His exchanges with Elizabeth were always good. The first time I watched this on Pop I anxiously waited for his first episode. I don't remember right now what his snarky line was on that but there was one and it was awesome.

[BooksRule]

I watched the episode yesterday where Romano gets the 'good' fake arm.  I'm assuming that when someone (Gallant?) said 'look, it's robodoc' it was a little in-joke about McCrane's role as one of the bad guys in the original 'Robocop'. 

[debraran]

8 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

this was always one of my favorite Romano lines--the didn't think I'd be invited part. They always gave him good lines and the actor delivered them perfectly. Looking back I wish they had not cut off his arm and had him stick around, always rough around the edges but a little smoothed over as time went by. His exchanges with Elizabeth were always good. The first time I watched this on Pop I anxiously waited for his first episode. I don't remember right now what his snarky line was on that but there was one and it was awesome.

Was that the Chris Rock comment? He goes on and on about him and if Peter likes him and Peter answers him in a classic Peter way and Romano says he likes him to Elizabeth? I remember that because my daughter commented on Chris Rock reference. There was a page somewhere on ER quotes and many of Romano's. Some tacky. some hysterical.

[marceline]

On 4/6/2018 at 3:29 AM, VCRTracking said:

Fantastic write up by Alan Sepinwall at Uproxx:

A Tribute To ‘ER’ Doctors Benton And Carter, A Pair For The Ages

Thanks for sharing that. One of the things I love about the Benton/Carter friendship is how it completely destroyed tropes we'd been fed about race and class. Benton was a black affirmative-action hire and Carter was a wealthy white boy and yet Benton was the respectable mentor and Carter was the desperate kid. 

That was especially true in the treatment of Carter's addiction. IMO, that was the flip of every "white savior" story we've ever seen.

[VCRTracking]

5 hours ago, marceline said:

Thanks for sharing that. One of the things I love about the Benton/Carter friendship is how it completely destroyed tropes we'd been fed about race and class. Benton was a black affirmative-action hire and Carter was a wealthy white boy and yet Benton was the respectable mentor and Carter was the desperate kid. 

That was especially true in the treatment of Carter's addiction. IMO, that was the flip of every "white savior" story we've ever seen.

I love that Benton's mom liked Carter but still said "I think his family owned 'us'(as in our people)"!

[doodlebug]

11 hours ago, marceline said:

Thanks for sharing that. One of the things I love about the Benton/Carter friendship is how it completely destroyed tropes we'd been fed about race and class. Benton was a black affirmative-action hire and Carter was a wealthy white boy and yet Benton was the respectable mentor and Carter was the desperate kid. 

That was especially true in the treatment of Carter's addiction. IMO, that was the flip of every "white savior" story we've ever seen.

Excellent point.  I think it was also somewhat unusual in that Benton came from a loving, functional, intact family while Carter’s family was dysfunctional as all get out.

[Claire85]

I had a thought while watching “All in the Family” again. If someone else had come into curtain 3 looking for Lucy, would Sobricki have stabbed them regardless, or was he specifically waiting for Carter? 

[BigBeagle]

1 hour ago, Claire85 said:

I had a thought while watching “All in the Family” again. If someone else had come into curtain 3 looking for Lucy, would Sobricki have stabbed them regardless, or was he specifically waiting for Carter? 

Oooh, good question. My knee-jerk reaction is that he would have stabbed anybody who walked in, but then again, why was he still in the room? Waiting on someone? Like Carter?

OK, I'll be over in the corner, shivering.

[Driad]

14 hours ago, marceline said:

Benton was a black affirmative-action hire

Did they say this?  I don't remember such a line.  He was certainly a talented surgeon although he had some problems early.  (Remembering a baby's liver; I haven't seen ER since first run.)

[RedbirdNelly]

53 minutes ago, BigBeagle said:

Oooh, good question. My knee-jerk reaction is that he would have stabbed anybody who walked in, but then again, why was he still in the room? Waiting on someone? Like Carter?

OK, I'll be over in the corner, shivering.

I'm pretty sure he was just going to stab whoever walked in. I think he was just there because he was having a breakdown and hadn't thought to run yet.

23 minutes ago, Driad said:

Did they say this?  I don't remember such a line.  He was certainly a talented surgeon although he had some problems early.  (Remembering a baby's liver; I haven't seen ER since first run.)

there is an episode later where Benton pulls his file. I can't remember the details but he compares to others, realizes there were other candidates with higher credentials. . .

15 hours ago, debraran said:

Was that the Chris Rock comment? He goes on and on about him and if Peter likes him and Peter answers him in a classic Peter way and Romano says he likes him to Elizabeth? I remember that because my daughter commented on Chris Rock reference. There was a page somewhere on ER quotes and many of Romano's. Some tacky. some hysterical.

I'm not sure-- I just remember mentioning to my husband with glee that it was his first episode.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Driad said:

Did they say this?  I don't remember such a line.  He was certainly a talented surgeon although he had some problems early.  (Remembering a baby's liver; I haven't seen ER since first run.)

It wasn't his hiring, it was his admission to medical school.  It was after Gant, once when they were arguing Benton told him that he never checked the box for race when applying to medical school because he didn't want preferential treatment.  Later, he was at the medical school and was able to find his application file and, even though he hadn't declared his race; the fact he was black and got affirmative action credit for it was noted.  We don't know if it mattered or not in terms of his admission.

Edited April 12, 2018 by doodlebug