All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I read some ER fanfic around the time I was working on my first story last year, and I saw a fic where Carter got with Susan (who was of course divorced from Chuck, another odd marriage on that show) and they ended up adopting a baby. I like to think that happened, and if not with Susan, that he eventually met some nice woman outside of County and was able to settle down and have a family. 

I still kind of ship him and Anna though as a friends to lovers thing. Wish she had stayed around. 

I'm one of the few that like Carter and Susan, so that's a nice image. I did wonder if Susan's comment at the bar of dating younger men was meant to leave interpretations open and such.

But whether Susan or someone else, as I said, wasting YEARS on miserable Kem seemed like another tragedy for Carter.

[Hiyo]

I liked Susan and Carter but not as a couple, I preferred their dynamic together during her first run on the show.

[Bastet]

They had ZERO couple chemistry, so I liked the early storyline where Carter tended to fixate on Susan given his issues and her personality and it didn't mesh, but any later suggestion they might actually match played as ridiculous.

The most interesting dynamic of their original relationship is that Susan was a better teacher than Peter when Carter was wet behind the ears.  She did the best job of anyone - Peter assigned to him, Mark in charge overall - of making sure Carter emerged from his ER rotation having learned the most procedures and the overall patient interaction.

[renatae]

19 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Before that I had the episode on where Carter almost proposed to Abby. I wonder why they had her find the engagement ring only to never bring it up again in another episode. You’d think they’d at least follow up on that. (Or did they and I just forgot?)

Nope, I don't think you forgot, because I don't remember it ever happening, either, which has really bugged me. Maybe she just didn't want to commit (remember how Luka had to drag her down the aisle) so didn't want to bring it up.

Another thing that bugged me about the non-proposal was that soon after John declared he loved Abby as she was, he immediately dropped the proposal when Abby said she didn't think it was possible for people to change. All his protestations aside, that gave him pause.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, renatae said:

Nope, I don't think you forgot, because I don't remember it ever happening, either, which has really bugged me. Maybe she just didn't want to commit (remember how Luka had to drag her down the aisle) so didn't want to bring it up.

I mean…the episode was called “I Don’t” for a reason. 🤣 What I don’t (haha no pun intended) understand is why Luka didn’t just say forget it and walk away when Abby showed up and started shrieking and whining, and he had to say “can’t you just do this one thing for me?” How can that possibly be getting a marriage off on the right foot? Why was he so determined to do it when she clearly was ungrateful and didn’t even want to plan before that? (Remember the scene when she whacked a wedding binder from Busy Phillips and stormed away like a petulant child? Why was a guy like Luka so into that? Most men would just cut their losses I’d think.) The more time passes the more I’m convinced that he settled for Abby because she replaced his dead family even though she was a terrible mother and wife. Carol was too in love with Doug and Sam had too much of her own issues plus didn’t want another baby. 

My friend got married last month, and thankfully she was nothing like Abby and actually wanted to be married. (Actually all the weddings I’ve been to have had all not-Abby like brides. I’d probably just leave if any of them were acting like a toddler who clearly didn’t want to be there.)  

Edited June 4, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[Kel Varnsen]

On 6/3/2022 at 5:52 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

I never understood why he kept trying to make their relationship work, and actually married in Season 12, off camera though.    

Did he keep trying to make it work. Because the only thing I can remember is the storyline where he was back in Chicago and they were still together, but he was also getting together with the blonde social worker lady. Which if that was something you want to do, maybe break up with your actual partner. Because I really thought that with how much everyone in that hospital was in everyone else's business, that must have been one of the most awkward workplace relationships on the show.

[starri]

I've been home a week after an extended stay in the hospital, where I had a life-altering illness.  While I wasn't attacked by a patient and didn't lose a kidney, like Carter after Sobricki's attack, my colon was removed, with plans to hook up what's left after I heal for a few months.

Anyway, I'm still at home recovering and getting wound care, and instead of gravitating towards edgier stuff, I've been finding myself going toward comfort food TV, with ER near the top of the list.  I skipped around a bit in the earlier seasons, but really started to watch in earnest in Season 5 (although, like the list, S4 remains my favorite).  And I have an extremely unpopular opinion:

I...like Lucy.  Having been through medical school now, I actually really related to some of her struggles, and to how she took to psychiatry like a duck to water (guess my specialty).  While I know it was just personalities not meshing, I thought Carter was not great at teaching her early on, and even my memories of watching it when it first aired always served as a guide as how not to treat med students.

I think her story at County was about finished even if she hadn't gotten killed.  But at the same, I think she deserved better, as phenomenal as the episodes were.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Hope you feel better! 
 

I think Carter and Lucy both made mistakes in their early relationship. Lucy kind of grated on me because she was a bit of a know-it-all but had no clue what she was doing in reality and she lied about her IV skills. I can’t blame Carter for telling her to never lie again. Carter shouldn’t have gotten involved with her Ritalin prescription and been so nosy about it either. And she should have never gone off and talked to a patient’s family unsupervised.

I’m not in medicine, though, so this is all just my uneducated opinion.

Random note, but as an ER fanfic writer, I do find myself occasionally browsing what others have written, and in recent months there have been some writers making the Carcy ship a thing again and writing AUs (alternate universes for those outside the fic world) about what would have happened if Lucy had survived. Lots of fluffy stories about them getting together and eventually having babies. I don’t ship them (I was more Carter/Anna) but I find myself enjoying the fics and grinning like an idiot for what they are. (But I was absolutely relieved when their flirting and kissing didn’t go further than those little scenes in The Storm, Part 1.)

[Hiyo]

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I think her story at County was about finished even if she hadn't gotten killed.  But at the same, I think she deserved better, as phenomenal as the episodes were.

Yeah, had she not been killed off, she would either have faded away into the background or transferred to another hospital.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, starri said:

I've been home a week after an extended stay in the hospital, where I had a life-altering illness.  While I wasn't attacked by a patient and didn't lose a kidney, like Carter after Sobricki's attack, my colon was removed, with plans to hook up what's left after I heal for a few months.

Wow. Feel better, @starri! I hope things go smoothly from here on out for you.

I don't share your Lucy admiration, but that's the beauty of this show: A character for everyone to enjoy!

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

and in recent months there have been some writers making the Carcy ship a thing again and writing AUs (alternate universes for those outside the fic world) about what would have happened if Lucy had survived. Lots of fluffy stories about them getting together and eventually having babies.

Ew, no.  To be fair, that's my reaction to most fanfic pairings in general; I only ever read The X-Files fanfic in the day, and most of it was terrible, so it's not my jam.  (I also hold an irrational hatred for portmanteaus of two characters' names to reference them as a couple.)

Ultimately, one of the few things I don't hate about Lucy's storyline - I can't stand the actor in anything I've seen her in, so even where I like this character, it's overshadowed, except for when she dies - is that Carter didn't pursue her or respond to her in a romantic way; Noah Wyle's "Yeah, no" request worked well, I think, and the dynamic between Carter and Knight that remained avoided the crap but also showed Carter is not a good teacher.  Which I found fascinating, since he's one of the best doctors we've seen, but he can't teach.  At least in this case.  It plays back into how I liked that Susan was often a better teacher to him than Peter in the first season.

[starri]

S6.  I'm convinced that if Laurence had been played by anyone other than Alan Alda, the story would have come across as mawkish, but there's something about him that makes the whole thing just wonderful.  If you were asking me to pick a favorite Brand Name actor who came in for a short arc, he's at the top of my list.

Score one for the absent-minded professor.

[txhorns79]

On 6/17/2022 at 10:20 PM, starri said:

I think her story at County was about finished even if she hadn't gotten killed.

I would agree.  I know Kellie Martin wanted off the show, so they were winding down the character regardless of whether she died or not.

On 6/19/2022 at 5:51 PM, starri said:

S6.  I'm convinced that if Laurence had been played by anyone other than Alan Alda, the story would have come across as mawkish, but there's something about him that makes the whole thing just wonderful.  If you were asking me to pick a favorite Brand Name actor who came in for a short arc, he's at the top of my list.

Score one for the absent-minded professor.

I thought he was great, and the story did a good job of humanizing Kerry. 

[Notabug]

On 6/21/2022 at 5:23 PM, txhorns79 said:

I would agree.  I know Kellie Martin wanted off the show, so they were winding down the character regardless of whether she died or not.

I thought he was great, and the story did a good job of humanizing Kerry. 

Kellie Martin specifically asked for a big storyline to write her off the show and was thrilled that Lucy was going to be killed and that virtually every member of the cast would react to it.  The success of that story was supposedly also the reason that AE wanted Mark to die a couple seasons later.

Once it became clear that Carter/Lucy was not happening; there really wasn’t anywhere else for Lucy to go, she’d been isolated. 

Carter was not a good teacher as a resident but seemingly improved over the years since it seemed like the residents consulted him  and asked his advice a lot. And, of course, he was one of Abby’s main instructors although she was constantly praised as incredibly brilliant and the best resident ever; so maybe she didn’t need his help.

[Cloud9Shopper]

The last time I watched All in the Family I was doing homework, and I kept finding myself looking back up at the episode and focusing more on that than my reading even though I’ve seen AITF so many times now. So yeah, for me, not a good episode to watch when I have important things to do. That’s how good it is. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen Mark’s death, but the shift for the worse the show took after that with more over the top storylines and the death of ER as an ensemble show sure is memorable. 

I was rewatching some S6 and S7 episodes a month or so ago and I really picked up on how they were going with “Abby knows everything” even before her mother showed up and she’s revealed to be an addict. She knew better than Kerry about a patient she was told to release. She goes over the head of a patient’s family who tells her not to get involved with an ex-wife She’s made out to be a hero and a patient advocate for running to the ER and abandoning her OB patient to do so, while Coburn is the unreasonable one for expecting an OB nurse to stay on that unit and attend to patients admitted there. 

[cincivic]

I have never liked Maura Tierney so having her play Abby made it torture for me to watch the show.

[Cloud9Shopper]

2 hours ago, cincivic said:

I have never liked Maura Tierney so having her play Abby made it torture for me to watch the show.

Welcome to the party! This seems to be the only ER space on the Internet where the majority of us dislike Abby. Everywhere else I go people sing her praises and over-worship her as a character and her “love story” with Luka. I felt like I’d found my people when I signed up here. :) 

I haven’t seen Maura Tierney in enough roles to care about her overall but I didn’t think her acting in ER was anything special. Plenty of the other main stars (and even some of the side characters) were equally as good or even better when given the spotlight but she seems to suck up all the praise. I can’t help but feel like she looks snotty when I see photos of her because she’s always told how amazing she is a la Abby. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[Hiyo]

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Once it became clear that Carter/Lucy was not happening; there really wasn’t anywhere else for Lucy to go, she’d been isolated. 

I'm surprised they didn't have someone like Kerry take Lucy under her wing.

[Dr.OO7]

On 6/17/2022 at 10:20 PM, starri said:

And I have an extremely unpopular opinion:

I...like Lucy.  Having been through medical school now, I actually really related to some of her struggles, and to how she took to psychiatry like a duck to water (guess my specialty).  While I know it was just personalities not meshing, I thought Carter was not great at teaching her early on, and even my memories of watching it when it first aired always served as a guide as how not to treat med students.

I thought Lucy was okay too. And like you, I could empathize with her a lot more once I went to medical school myself. I just hated the way she was constantly shoved in our faces. When Season 5 premiered, there were 4 or 5 major cliffhangers from the Season 4 finale to be resolved and instead, we get The Lucy Show with a only a few throwaway lines to explain everything.

And instead of learning from that, they make the same mistake two years later with Abby, only this time it's even worse, because at least Lucy was relatively cheerful whereas Abby was so unbelievably miserable all the time.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I actually didn’t think Abby was too miserable when she first showed up. I didn’t mind her as much except for the writers’ decisions to show how amazing she was and knew better than attendings and department heads what she should be doing. I did like her spontaneously kissing Luka in the ambulance bay in S7 too. 

I turned on her as soon as her mother showed up and she said “that’s not my mother.” Honestly Sally Field showing up is like beginning of the end lite for me. The show was still good after that for a few seasons; I just wish TPTB hadn’t chosen such a miserable character to be front and center. 

Lucy did have some nice lighter moments too for as much as she kind of grates on me. Her story with the heart transplant patient in S6 is underrated and she really advocated for her without (as far as I remember) breaking any rules or doing something the patient told her not to do. 

[Notabug]

36 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

I'm surprised they didn't have someone like Kerry take Lucy under her wing.

I believe at one point, Lucy asked Kerry to mentor her and Kerry agreed, but then got a promotion and left Lucy high and dry.  Elizabeth could’ve also been a mentor for her.

[Dr.OO7]

On 6/24/2022 at 3:11 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I actually didn’t think Abby was too miserable when she first showed up. I

She was fine when she showed up in Season 6.

On 6/24/2022 at 3:11 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I turned on her as soon as her mother showed up and she said “that’s not my mother

I hated her by that point too, but my issue wasn't with her saying that, it was by that by that point, this was the sixth episode in a row that focused on her and her awful life and by now, I was exhausted.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I hated the storyline with her brother, after Abby walked out on Carter when he found out about his beloved Grandmother dying, and then she showed up with her brother at the funeral, and brother fell in the grave. 

I also hated the way Le Gaspi (?) the psychiatrist and the court expected Abby to take her mother in.   Then, later when her mother was fighting everything to get the son treatment, it was as if the mother was now the expert on everything, about her son.  I guess being related to Abby makes you a world expert on everything.   Just because you have the same disease, it doesn't mean you are the expert now. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[Cloud9Shopper]

46 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I hated the storyline with her brother, after Abby walked out on Carter when he found out about his beloved Grandmother dying, and then she showed up with her brother at the funeral, and brother fell in the grave. 

That was the second-biggest jump the shark moment for me personally (the first being Romano having the helicopter fall on him in S10). It showcased Abby’s selfishness and narcissism at one of its lowest points. Carter had gone through a lot before Gamma’s death and didn‘t have  much family himself. It’s sad she couldn’t stay home and deal with her brother and instead just had to deny Carter a peaceful funeral and goodbye to his grandmother. I loved when he told her to just leave at the end of that fiasco and refused to accept her half-assed apology. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Was watching the S9 episode last night where Abby and Maggie take Eric to that psychiatry day program and Maggie ends up pulling Eric out. I kind of laughed at the end where Maggie tells her she and Eric are going back to Minnesota and Abby goes “you can’t do that!” Uhhh yes they can, Abby. They’re not your prison inmates; they can go wherever they want.

Also, the irony of Abby referring to herself as “stable and dependable” and telling Maggie she’s “nobody’s mother” is fun since I’ve seen the whole series now and know what disdain and disgust she has for Joe down the road. (He’d be 16 now! Poor kid. I wonder how many times he’s tried to run away from Abby and Luka or how much alcohol he’s illegally drank by now.)

[Hiyo]

I have a feeling if Abbey had said "Ok fine, go", she would have been called out for being a selfish uncaring bitch. Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't...

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He’d be 16 now! Poor kid. I wonder how many times he’s tried to run away from Abby and Luka or how much alcohol he’s illegally drank by now.

Given that one (unintentional) message this show gave us seems to be that whoever managed to leave County alive seemed to move on to better things, happier lives, conquering their demons, etc, I'd have to say Luka, Abbey, and their kid(s) probably turned out fine.

Granted, Carter could be the exception, but then again you could argue he never truly left...

Edited June 28, 2022 by Hiyo

[Heathen]

13 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I have a feeling if Abbey had said "Ok fine, go", she would have been called out for being a selfish uncaring bitch. Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't...

Given that one (unintentional) message this show gave us seems to be that whoever managed to leave County alive seemed to move on to better things, happier lives, conquering their demons, etc, I'd have to say Luka, Abbey, and their kid(s) probably turned out fine.

Granted, Carter could be the exception, but then again you could argue he never truly left...

She had a hysterectomy, and I don't see them adopting, or being allowed to adopt with their history. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Abby barely seemed to want and love Joe so I can’t see her being willing to adopt. I just feel like she doesn’t have it in her to be stable for more than a few years at a time or stick with AA long term. I’ve seen the whole series and I’m unlikely to suddenly say yes she turned out great, stayed sober for the rest of her life and was the best mommy ever and lived happily ever. If that upsets Abby fans, then too bad. 

[Hiyo]

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I don't see them adopting, or being allowed to adopt with their history. 

This is ER, where anything can happen.

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I’ve seen the whole series

Me too!

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I’m unlikely to suddenly say yes she turned out great, stayed sober for the rest of her life and was the best mommy ever and lived happily ever

That's what so great about this forum, we can all express our different opinions and don't need to agree on anything.

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If that upsets Abby fans, then too bad. 

LOL ok then. Trust me, it isn't that deep.

[Notabug]

9 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Abby barely seemed to want and love Joe so I can’t see her being willing to adopt. I just feel like she doesn’t have it in her to be stable for more than a few years at a time or stick with AA long term. I’ve seen the whole series and I’m unlikely to suddenly say yes she turned out great, stayed sober for the rest of her life and was the best mommy ever and lived happily ever. If that upsets Abby fans, then too bad. 

When she first discovered she was pregnant, Abby clearly said she never wanted kids. I think the only reason she kept the pregnancy was because she didn’t want a secret abortion that time and she knew it would devastate Luka.  Only time she ever put his life ahead of her own and it didn’t last.  I saw no evidence after Joe was born that Abby enjoyed anything about motherhood. She mainly seemed aggravated and angry about the ‘inconvenience’ Joe presented.  In her very last scene on the show, she was complaining about hosting a play date at her house for Joe and a couple other 4 year olds.  Poor kid had to know how much she resented his presence in her life. Just like her mother and brother saw it.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Notabug

[Cloud9Shopper]

22 minutes ago, Notabug said:

When she first discovered she was pregnant, Abby clearly said she never wanted kids. I think the only reason she kept the pregnancy was because she didn’t want a secret abortion that time and she knew it would devastate Luka.  Only time she ever put his life ahead of her own and it didn’t last.  I saw no evidence after Joe was born that Abby enjoyed anything about motherhood. She mainly seemed aggravated and angry about the ‘inconvenience’ Joe presented.  In her very last scene on the show, she was complaining about hosting a play date at her house for Joe and a couple other 4 year olds.  Poor kid had to know how much she resented his presence in her life. Just like her mother and brother saw it.

Didn’t you know that poor poor Abby was forced to host that play date and give up her Thursday? It’s not her fault she had to have those kids over her house; they were just forcefully dumped on her before she could stop the kids’ mothers! /s 

I didn’t even feel sorry for her when she had the hysterectomy. After the temper tantrum she threw during all of Bloodline, acting like a screaming hyena even in the OR because people wanted to save her baby, she deserved it. Someone like her doesn’t need to bring one kid in the world, let alone multiple children. Carol and Jeanie had challenges with motherhood too, and Carol had her own childbirth issues, and they at least seemed to love their kids. Carol was begging Mark to make sure Kate lived while Abby sat in the OR shrieking at everyone to shut up and demanding to be awake for the C-section even after being told a spinal would take longer. Everything was all about her and what she wanted and not one word of concern for Joe 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[PepSinger]

On 6/28/2022 at 9:34 PM, Heathen said:

She had a hysterectomy, and I don't see them adopting, or being allowed to adopt with their history. 

My favorite part of that was how bored she looked throughout the whole ordeal. She was mildly peeved. What an odd acting choice.

[Cloud9Shopper]

11 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

My favorite part of that was how bored she looked throughout the whole ordeal. She was mildly peeved. What an odd acting choice.

I saw someone post a GIF from the S12 finale where Luka was talking to her pregnant belly and she turned away from him looking like she’d rather be anywhere else. Maybe Maura just wasn’t comfortable since she’s childfree in real life (even Sam looked more comfortable with Joe than Abby did in S14 after all) and didn’t like playing a pregnant character. But she’s so widely praised for her talent that you think she could’ve feigned being in love with Luka and excited for the baby. 

I saw a promo photo for her upcoming play and she still has the same sullen Abby expression on her face even after 14 years…

Anyway I watched Pratt’s last episode again last night, and the final pan over the cast at the end felt really symbolic. Almost like it was a way of saying it was going to be one of the last times we saw the cast together celebrating something. My heart breaks for Morris and how little he really seemed to grieve, since he does break in the following episode. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[Notabug]

49 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I saw someone post a GIF from the S12 finale where Luka was talking to her pregnant belly and she turned away from him looking like she’d rather be anywhere else. Maybe Maura just wasn’t comfortable since she’s childfree in real life (even Sam looked more comfortable with Joe than Abby did in S14 after all) and didn’t like playing a pregnant character. But she’s so widely praised for her talent that you think she could’ve feigned being in love with Luka and excited for the baby. 

I saw a promo photo for her upcoming play and she still has the same sullen Abby expression on her face even after 14 years…

Anyway I watched Pratt’s last episode again last night, and the final pan over the cast at the end felt really symbolic. Almost like it was a way of saying it was going to be one of the last times we saw the cast together celebrating something. My heart breaks for Morris and how little he really seemed to grieve, since he does break in the following episode. 

Maura Tierney is not a bad actress, IMO, but she has a very narrow range.  She seems to play the unhappy, put-upon wife, mother, employee in every role.  She uses the same pouting and eye rolling in every part she plays, too.  The sarcastic, long-suffering victim of circumstance is not just her sweet spot, it's her only spot.  Even when I've seen her in roles where she wasn't necessarily unhappy or depressed, she still came across that way in her line delivery, body language and expression.  It seems to be the only way she knows how to play a character.  Meryl Streep, she ain't.

The legendary Dorothy Parker  supposedly once reviewed a performance by Katharine Hepburn, "She Runs the Gamut of Human Emotion from A to B".  That describes my feelings about MT's acting.

[Cloud9Shopper]

All the more reason why it’s annoying that she seems to be the only actress who gets acclaim on ER, and people act like she’s a 10 in the looks department on top of it. 

I always thought Julianna Margulies, Alex Kingston and Laura Innes were also great actresses (and more attractive than MT) among the main cast females too. I was watching the S9 episode the other night where Kerry has her miscarriage and Laura wears Kerry’s emotions well even when she doesn’t have any lines. (All in the Family and Where There’s Smoke are two other examples.) She also had some good scenes with the deaf woman who came in with the head injury. I wish there were more praise for other actresses and female characters but everyone seems to be infatuated with MT and Abby. 

[Hiyo]

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Maybe Maura just wasn’t comfortable since she’s childfree in real life

It's called acting. Lots of people play parents when they are childfree in life, and vice versa.

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you think she could’ve feigned being in love with Luka and excited for the baby. 

Maybe she was listening to what the writers and director were telling her to do.

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The legendary Dorothy Parker  supposedly once reviewed a performance by Katharine Hepburn, "She Runs the Gamut of Human Emotion from A to B". 

Even Dorothy Parker got it wrong sometimes...

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it’s annoying that she seems to be the only actress who gets acclaim on ER

That isn't true. Lots of the other actresses got acclaim as well. Why, some of them even were nominated for Emmy's as well...

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people act like she’s a 10 in the looks department on top of it. 

More power to them if they do.

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I always thought Julianna Margulies, Alex Kingston and Laura Innes were also great actresses

You can add Sherry Stringfield and Gloria Reuben to that list as well.

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I wish there were more praise for other actresses and female characters but everyone seems to be infatuated with MT and Abby. 

Again, who says there isn't?

[Notabug]

4 hours ago, Hiyo said:

It's called acting. Lots of people play parents when they are childfree in life, and vice versa.

Maybe she was listening to what the writers and director were telling her to do.

Even Dorothy Parker got it wrong sometimes...

That isn't true. Lots of the other actresses got acclaim as well. Why, some of them even were nominated for Emmy's as well...

More power to them if they do.

You can add Sherry Stringfield and Gloria Reuben to that list as well.

Again, who says there isn't?

Julianna Margulies did win an Emmy for playing Carol, so I would agree that at least some of the other women in the main cast got some recognition.

For me, it wasn't the general public or their opinions about MT's looks or character or acting abilities; it is the way the showrunners treated her and her character.  Almost every episode starting at the end of Season 6 had other characters praising Abby as the best nurse, the brightest med student, the most fabulous doctor.  Besides that, everyone commented on her beauty and desirability.  Not an episode went by that someone wasn't hitting on her for her amazing good looks and sexiness or begging her to specialize in neonatology or ER.  Even her fellow residents, some of them more senior to her, went to her for advice and guidance on all the toughest cases; even let her bulldoze right past them and take over on cases she wanted; with no consequences from her colleagues or superiors.  Then, MT always had a front burner storyline, appeared in multiple scenes in every episode and managed to get screen time in virtually every other character's storylines in a way that no other character in the history of the show did.  No event occurred onscreen that we didn't see Abby's reaction to it.  Other characters storylines, Kerry's hip replacement, Neela being widowed when Gallant was killed; were hijacked by Abby who somehow was made the focus of everything on the show.

Even the stalwarts from the early days who hung around until later seasons: Mark, Carter and Benton didn't get the screentime and constant praise and attention that Abby/MT did.  

As for looks, MT is attractive enough, but considering the rest of the cast included multiple women at least as pretty, she was nothing special lookswise for that workplace no matter how many patients, doctors, nurses and others proclaimed she was the most gorgeous creature they'd ever seen.

I particularly recall an episode where a couple of teen boys kept referring to Abby, running around with her stringy hair in her eyes, scowling and complaining; kept calling her a MILF.  It was laughable, especially considering MT was a heavy smoker at the time and had the deep creases in her face to prove it.  I recall thinking at first that TPTB were being facetious, but, no, we were supposed to think that all the teens in town thought Abby was a hottie.  No, she wasn't.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Notabug

[Cloud9Shopper]

The kicker for me is seeing how Abby was treated when she relapsed versus Carter when he got addicted to painkillers. I didn’t of course realize it until I saw S14, but it’s amazing.

Carter is nearly killed at work and forced to go to rehab or be fired. He gets a bunch of rules when he comes back and is allowed to work short shifts at first and only work cases an eight-year-old could handle. I understand he did have a case where he gave Bactrum (Bactrin? Sorry medical pros if I’m messing it up; feel free to correct me) and that he had a slip but he still slipped because he was helping Chen give birth when he had little sleep and everyone still treated him like he had the Black Plague rather than someone who had seen Lucy bleed out in front of him and had serious injuries of his own, and probably partly blamed himself. 

Abby goes home and gets plastered when she’s supposed to be caring for her injured child and works drunk but is hailed for her bravery because “she had it hard when Luka was gone and she had to work and take care of Joe.” And of course no one reports her for working while smashed, no one threatened her job and top hospitals are dishing out interviews and offers to her. No one at all thought she was a flight risk or was hesitant to take a risk on a recovering alcoholic who was claiming to be sober for at least the third time? Besides, working mothers had existed for a long time, even in 2007. If Abby can’t work and care for Joe she should’ve aborted again. She lies to Coburn continuously and seems to be whining and complaining to her half the time they’re together but is hailed again for “working with her sponsor and doing the steps.” Please. I knew actual recovering addicts from my old church and they were way more cheerful than Abby. Carter was willing to help Chen give birth despite his own bad day and support her after. When would Abby be so kind to someone and set aside her own issues? 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[ch1]

I am so glad I checked out before season 14.  That storyline would have made me pop a blood vessel.

[Cloud9Shopper]

52 minutes ago, ch1 said:

I am so glad I checked out before season 14.  That storyline would have made me pop a blood vessel.

Not going to lie, it was so depressing I considered taking up drinking just to tolerate it. 😂I would have liked to hear more about Coburn though because we all knew Abby was miserable and incapable of staying sober. Why not further show an example of an addict who got their life together and stayed that way? Coburn did say she was 12 years sober so it’s safe to assume she actually did the steps and followed through and found other ways to have meaning in life. 

I only watched at that point because I was trying to see the whole series one time (I had checked out around S10 or S11 during the original run). Now I skip it haha. But there are a few non-Abby episodes in S14, like Jeanie’s return visit, that I watch.  

[PepSinger]

The reason that Carter’s addiction was treated differently from Abby’s is that the show didn’t think the sun shone out of Carter’s ass. He was a lead, but the show quite frequently had other characters call him on his shit. Abby? LOL.

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Not going to lie, it was so depressing I considered taking up drinking just to tolerate it. 😂I would have liked to hear more about Coburn though because we all knew Abby was miserable and incapable of staying sober. Why not further show an example of an addict who got their life together and stayed that way? Coburn did say she was 12 years sober so it’s safe to assume she actually did the steps and followed through and found other ways to have meaning in life. 

I only watched at that point because I was trying to see the whole series one time (I had checked out around S10 or S11 during the original run). Now I skip it haha. But there are a few non-Abby episodes in S14, like Jeanie’s return visit, that I watch.  

I just remember Luka treating Coburn with disdain after Abby's relapse because Coburn, although sober for many years. had gotten divorced.  He practically sneered at her and implied Abby was better off than Coburn because, even though she relapsed and endangered her son and cheated on him, at least she was still married.  Because Luka and Abby were so happily married that everyone looked up to their example, I guess.  Luka was such a dumba** sometimes.  And another example of how TPTB kept telling us how much better Abby was than everyone else.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Notabug

[Cloud9Shopper]

39 minutes ago, Notabug said:

I just remember Luka treating Coburn with disdain after Abby's relapse because Coburn, although sober for many years. had gotten divorced.  He practically sneered at her and implied Abby was better off than Coburn because, even though she relapsed and endangered her son and cheated on him, at least she was still married.  Because Luka and Abby were so happily married that everyone looked up to their example, I guess.  Luka was such a dumba** sometimes.  And another example of how TPTB kept telling us how much better Abby was than everyone else.

You’d swear ER had actually been set in the 50s where a woman couldn’t possibly be happy without a man and a child/children. 

I actually didn’t mind Luka’s character too much in S6-8. But I’m in S9 now and I’ve seen some of the episodes where he’s sleeping around and seems to be addicted to sex or something and Kerry makes him go to therapy. How he just didn’t get the boot from the hospital that year and later became ER chief in S13 is mind boggling. I guess every other legit chief candidate by then knew County had exploded and been shot up so many times that they all (and I know this phrase wasn’t around in 2008 but I can’t help it) took their talents elsewhere to a safer and more professionally run hospital. It was when he spiraled and had a hard time controlling his urges to punch people and throw things that he lost me. 

I also found it ironic that Luka screamed at Coburn about collateral damage when his reckless driving in S9 almost killed a med student…who he was sleeping with…

Edited July 24, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[WendyCR72]

8 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I also found it ironic that Luka screamed at Coburn about collateral damage when his reckless driving in S9 almost killed a med student…who he was sleeping with…

So TPTB just stole some of Doug Ross' story lines? (I recall Doug punching out abusive parents [so that really didn't upset me much!] and having a woman he was sleeping with come in and die/or be close to death, and he didn't even, IIRC, recall her name? I recall everyone being disgusted at him then...)

No wonder some thought of Luka as a bargain-basement Doug Ross. (And that's not even including his fixation on Carol!)

[Cloud9Shopper]

In the case of the woman Doug slept with, she had a seizure and died at the hospital, so at least he didn’t directly play a part in her death. Whereas Luka actively drove too fast with Erin (the med student in S9) in the car and she even later asked him why he didn’t slow down if he knew what he was doing was stupid.

Abby’s thing with Moretti is generally treated as date rape today. If you say she slept with Moretti or cheated on Luka, her fangirls descend to scream that it was rape. But when I saw Blackout it sure seemed like Abby knew what she was doing that night at the bar. Because then she didn’t pick up Joe until 3 am (or something) and drove him to the airport to scream at a clerk while holding a screaming baby and try and get a ticket to Croatia. 

Now that I have the whole series behind me I do see how desperate Luka was for a new wife and children, considering he did low key manipulate Abby into pregnancy and marriage. (I don’t think for a minute that he was genuine about staying with her if she had an abortion. He probably would have stayed a little bit but would have dumped her or cheated on her the second he found another woman who seemed like she might want a kid.) Abby only kept the baby for him and pretended she wanted it, IMO, because if Luka left her and Carter was clearly done with her, no one else would be attracted to her damaged goods. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[Hiyo]

Quote

Even the stalwarts from the early days who hung around until later seasons: Mark, Carter and Benton didn't get the screentime and constant praise and attention that Abby/MT did. 

I have to disagree with that. Especially in Mark's case, wasn't his final season kind of a season long tribute to him?

Quote

her fangirls

I get not liking a character, but it is necessary to be so condescending to the character's fans? I'm a fan of hers and male. And I don't think I'm the only one.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Hiyo

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Especially in Mark's case, wasn't his final season kind of a season long tribute to him?

Yeah, Anthony Edwards gave them basically two seasons' notice, so they were able to set up the cancer arc, and the last season, especially as he got sicker, was heavily focused on Mark (fitting, given the character's status and how many OGs they'd already lost).

Speaking of Mark, I swear I've read somewhere that the Mark/Elizabeth relationship was written because Edwards requested a love story with another main character, but a quick search didn't turn up anything on that.  For those far more in the know, is that true, or did I dream it? 

[Notabug]

8 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

In the case of the woman Doug slept with, she had a seizure and died at the hospital, so at least he didn’t directly play a part in her death. Whereas Luka actively drove too fast with Erin (the med student in S9) in the car and she even later asked him why he didn’t slow down if he knew what he was doing was stupid.

Doug didn't look to good though, in that he didn't know Nadine's name despite having slept with her the night before and, at the time of the seizure, he had her in his car, eager to drop her off someplace and get away.  She was also high on cocaine which she'd apparently used while with him in his apartment.  He wasn't responsible for the things she did, but he didn't look too good at the time.  Of course, back then, the others in the ER seemingly had standards and called each other out on bad behavior instead of the 'Can you top this?' idiocy of the later seasons.

[Notabug]

42 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Speaking of Mark, I swear I've read somewhere that the Mark/Elizabeth relationship was written because Edwards requested a love story with another main character, but a quick search didn't turn up anything on that.  For those far more in the know, is that true, or did I dream it? 

I've heard that, too.  After ELS objected to Benton/Elizabeth and that relationship ended, AK really didn't have much to do on the show which was always balanced between the characters' personal and work lives.  Meanwhile, after all of Mark's short-term relationships after his divorce, AE supposedly told TPTB he wanted Mark in a front burner romance with a main cast member.  At the time, JM was in the midst of her pregnancy/exit storyline, SS had been long gone from the show, KM was already on her way out as Lucy was not a good match for Carter (and Mark would've looked like he was dating his daughter).  Maura Tierney didn't join full time until mid-season and I think TPTB had already decided that Abby was going to hook up with Luka, Carter or both once JM and KM left.  MM was brought on board to pair with Benton and MN had just returned and would've also not been a great physical match for AE,

That left Alex Kingston's Elizabeth.  So, the snoozefest that was Mark /Elizabeth was born.  I've read the same rumors you have, but I don't know that anyone ever publicly confirmed it.

[Bastet]

12 minutes ago, Notabug said:

I've read the same rumors you have, but I don't know that anyone ever publicly confirmed it.

I hope it's just rumor.  Because, if true, I have a real problem with Eriq La Salle's request in service of a greater good (to not show a black man's only three-dimensional, healthy romantic relationship - as opposed to the "nothing but fucking and fighting" relationships shown with his other, black, girlfriends, as being with the one white woman we've seen him date) getting so much scrutiny to the point his brave request got blamed for the snoozefest that was Benton/Cleo the writers came up with in response, but Anthony Edwards's ego-driven request going without public remark, and certainly not leading to blaming him for the just as snoozy Mark/Elizabeth pairing the writers came up with in response.