Happily Ever After: Relationships Are Hard

[Camera One]

Knowing what we do now about heart-control, why didn't Regina just use the heart to control Graham and have him say he was delusional and didn't "remember" anything.  Then, Regina could have Graham saying mean things to Emma so she would back off.  Even if he regained his memories, Regina would have full control over everything he says and does, so what's the big deal?  

 

She could eventually have made up a story that Graham has taken on another position in another town and then Regina could lock him up under the hospital, problem solved.  She could even take him to her "bedchamber" whenever she wanted.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

They barely begin to be parents to Emma when she disappears from their lives each time.

It's sad that when they are together, they don't attempt to bond at all. It's a very awkward relationship, let me tell you, but we never see them doing anything together that's not totally serious or extremely superficial. Whatever they do that's in the vicinity of casual usually involves or gets interrupted by other people. Their time is scarce because of the constant villains, curses and whatnot, but what little they have is not utilized.

 

This show is an ensemble cast where each character gets a limited, allotted amount of screen time. Even characters like Regina, who tend to be exceptions to this, don't get much done in their scenes. It's the meat of the character development that's sorely lacking.

Edited April 18, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

It's sad that when they are together, they don't attempt to bond at all.

 

They usually get two lines of conversation before they're interrupted.  Adam considered that short scene between Emma/Snow/Charming in "Heart of Gold" to be "exploring" the conflict between them.  If that's "exploring" it, then it shows they really have no further interest in this relationship.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Camera One

[Mari]

  If that's "exploring" it, then it shows they really have no further interest in this relationship.

It also shows that their definitions of "exploring" and "conflict"  might have some issues, too.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Mari

[KingOfHearts]

4B doesn't seem to have much Rumpbelle besides Rumple tricking Belle and looking ominously at Will. It's strange that this couple has had little to no focus (not complaining about that!) since the winter finale was all about them. It was a major setup for their torn love, yet we haven't gotten a centric for either character. This is a fine opportunity to explore  (and I mean really explore, not A&E's definition!) Belle as an independent person. She's been joined to Rumple's hip for so long and now she gets a breather... so they just tie her with another man immediately? Then Rumple's back? 

 

Not that I care about Rumpbelle, but I feel like a lot of main characters are being sidelined in an arc promised to bring back the focus on them.

Edited April 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

How sad is it that in every conversation Belle and Rumple had this half-season, one of them is either unconscious or not themselves? 

 

And yet, I have a bad feeling that the writers will have Belle TLK Rumple after his heart goes completely dark to sort of parallel the Beauty and the Beast fairytale. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

You'd think that knowing and seeing the condition of his heart would mellow good ol' Rumple out a bit.  If the consequences of all your evil deeds is that you will not be able to love anymore, then you deserve everything you get for letting your grandson be in danger (even if Cruella can't kill, who the fuck cares?  I'm sure even armed with that knowledge, Neal would have gone looking for his son) and then try to take his mother from him.

 

So I hope Belle doesn't TLK him.  I hope she lets him die.  I mean there are so many lines that one can draw before they start actually hating someone and why Belle doesn't just hate this man is absolutely beyond me and her happy ending should in no way be tied to his.

 

Rumple doesn't deserve to have a happy ending or to be happy.  He deserves pain and misery and a slow and painful death.

[Lieutenant]

Was I the only one who noticed that when Regina informed Robin that Zelena was really the big baddie that killed Marian in this timeline, she conveniently left out the whole "...after Emma freed her from my dungeon where she was to be executed by myself in the morning."  He still has no idea.  

 

OQ is so messed up enough as it is.  Now it's just beyond the pale.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm waiting around the corner with not nice things to say if Robin becomes all outraged about Zelena killing Marian since he gave so very little fucks that Regina was going to have her executed had Emma not saved her.

[Serena]

Can we just take a moment to reflect on WHY the writers are doing CS and OQ so differently?

 

I'm not saying they should just copy whatever they did with CS when writing OQ. But... when Emma and Hook were separated against their will, with Hook aware that she didn't even remember who he was, when she did remember she had never confessed feelings for him, that she was in another land entirely (with no possibility of keeping in touch via phone)... he still actively refused to sleep with someone else for a whole year. He just couldn't. 

Robin, after being separated from Regina for... 3 weeks?... goes and sleeps with someone else.

 

The Hook scene where he refuses that woman was CLEARLY put there to make us go "awww. See? He's faithful to Emma even though she's somewhere else and he thinks he'll never see her again. He can't bring himself to touch another woman! Isn't this romantic?". They KNEW fans would be pissed if Hook even looked at another woman when away from Emma. So, in order to make CS even more root-worthy, they made a point of showing him "faithful". And Hook is the manwhore! While with Robin, who's supposed to be the classic hero character, they go above and beyond showing the opposite? They have him knock up another woman? What? 

[YaddaYadda]

Robin and Hook should sit and compare codes.  Clearly, one is different from the other.  Robin put his kid in danger to pay back his debt to the Dark One through Neal, so 'nuff said.

 

One of the things that the show has done a good job conveying with Hook is when Hook loves, he loves with his whole heart, he doesn't hold back, he is loyal to a fault.  Granted, that love has also turned him away from his path when Liam died and into a crazed vengeful whatever you wanna call it when he lost Milah.

 

And I know the circumstances are different between CS and OQ, but even in the way both men pursued their significant other, things were different.  Hook made his intentions very clear to Emma back in Neverland, but he also backed off because he felt it was the right thing to do for Henry.  And all of 3B, we knew what his feelings were, but he didn't act on any of that, instead, he chose to be Emma's friend and her occasional punching bag.  It's like better have her in my life than not at all.

 

I thought 4A with Robin and Regina was bordering on harassment a bit, in the sense that he chose to be with Marian which in its own is commendable, but when you make a choice, you have to stick to it, not pursue the other woman relentlessly.  She's miserable enough as it is, why would you heap more on her?

 

Hook and Robin are like day and night and OQ is a clusterfuck not even because of Regina but because of her wishy-washy as fuck boyfriend.  She does deserve better than this (yes, I know, she murdered villagers and raped Graham, but even Charles Manson got married, so...).

[Rumsy4]

To be somewhat fair to Robin, he apparently only started sleeping with Marian after deleting Regina's number from his phone. So, sleeping with his wife was apparently a gesture that he was fully recommitting to that relationship again. Maybe the writers wanted to show that Robin was finally choosing to live honorably instead of physically or emotionally cheating on his wife? It certainly doesn't make him appealing as a romantic partner for Regina. 

 

They seem to be portraying this as a karmic payback to Regina over the Kathryn/MM/David situation. But David was wishy washy because he was cursed. What's Robin's excuse? Because lbr, no matter what, sleeping with his wife and mistress within a span of a couple of weeks does not make Robin look good or honorable. Of course people make mistakes, but Robin's recovery is not looking good so far.   

 

If this was meant to be karma for Regina's rape of Graham, then it is beyond twisted to punish Robin Hood for that. But clearly A&E don't think of either situations as rape. This is also making me uncomfortable thinking of Walsh and Emma. He was also deceiving her and apparently sleeping with her. I really dislike this pattern of writing. 

[kili]

Emma's reaction to finding out that her boyfriend of 8 months was a flying monkey versus Robin's reaction to finding out that he'd been boinking a disguised Wicked Witch was vastly different. Emma bonks Walsh to push him off the rooftop. Robin was more...Oh I didn't see that coming. But she's pregnant so it's honorable to stay with her

 

Emma bonks Walsh to push him off the rooftop because he is attacking her, not because he was a flying monkey. Her throwing him off the roof was a defensive move.

 

In the Zelarian reveal scene, Zelena does nothing but cackle. Plus, she is carrying his baby who is innocent in all of this. I would have been horrified if Robin had turned around and thrown Zelena out the window.

[kili]

I'm talking about the reaction after. Emma's reaction was more of, "this is another guy who has lied to me" vs. "oh, this woman lied to me but she's still carrying my child and I think I'll stick around."

 

The difference is the child. I really wouldn't think much of him if he left his innocent child to be raised by that lunatic. He's not sticking around for Zelena.

[Dani-Ellie]

It just wasn't much of a reaction from him to find out that a woman he had been sleeping with was terrorizing the town he had been living in just a few months earlier. Maybe a question or two of how long had seen been impersonating Marian. His reaction was not void of shock. He just settled into it too easily for my taste.

 

The whole point of that scene was the shock. None of the characters had the time to react with anything but shock (or glee *cough*Zelena*cough*). And for the record, I didn't get Robin settling at all. He didn't have the time to settle into anything. I got numb more than anything.

[Lieutenant]

So, was reading some speculation in the spoilers thread and wanted to see if anyone else had thoughts on TLKs and the couples possible up to bat for the next one - cuz lets be real: it's this show; these writers.  TLKs are the Big Kahuna on Once.  That said, even just speculating about OQ getting a TLK before CS makes me slightly irate, lol. That OQ should get there before a longer established and well rounded couple like CS?  Just no.  That lead me into wondering what makes a couple (romantic, familial, etc.) "worthy" of a TLK?  To me, there has to be no doubt that these two are it.  Two halves of a whole, two people selflessly doing their best to lift the other up, two individuals fitting together to make one stronger unit, two souls recognizing that their world will never be the same w/o the other in it.  I don't see any of that with OQ.  Sure, I get told all the time how super-duper, destined 5ever soul mates they are; but I don't see that onscreen.  What I see onscreen is nothing close to that.  I'm just hoping (I should know better by now) that this rather important milestone isn't cheapened beyond recognition before CS gets there. */grumpy face*

[Rumsy4]

Captain Swan probably won't get one until S5 at least. Their development has been slow and steady. I don't think Robin and Regina are there either. Although with the pairing moving at jetspeed, OQ probably will have grandbabies by the end of the series.

 

If anyone gets a TLK this finale, it may be Rumbelle. 4A ended with Belle banishing Rumple from Storybrooke. So, it will bookend their arc if they end 4B with a TLK. There are parallels to what happens to the Beast in the fairy tale, with Belle coming back just in time to save the Beast. Of course, Rumple is an unredeemable psychopath, and a True Love's kiss between him and Belle would be a joke. But, it's TS.

 

Maybe they'll go for another True Love Handshake between Regina and Emma (as with Emma and Elsa). Ridiculous... but the writers LOVE this friendship. So, who knows. In fact, the crazier the idea, the more likely it will happen. :-p

[Shanna Marie]

A TLK with Rumple and Belle would fit their pattern, in which they're separated in the middle of the season and reunited in the season finale.

 

But seriously, if she takes him back after all this, she's got a head full of rocks. And isn't it ironic that after all her bleating about what a good heart he has, it turns out that his heart has become too blackened to support life.

[Dianthus]

Thinking about CS vs. OQ: If I wasn't constantly being told that OQ was True Love, I'd have no other reason to think so (and I still don't believe it anyway). I wonder if the slow burn of CS has to do with the idea of them both being damaged (or was it broken)? Both of them have had sex as part of a love relationship, but the relationship/s ended in betrayal (on Emma's side) or death (on Killian's). Killian had his Hookers, and Emma her one-night stands. Sex devoid of love to scratch an itch. They both need time to get over that mindset (maybe). Whatever it is, they both bring enough baggage with them to fill the Jolly's hold.

Reggie should have as much, if not more, but she doesn't seem to give a crap. Robin's just too much of a dolt.

[Serena]

Well, one of the signs of True Love is that you're tested again and again and overcome those obstacles, like Snowing did. Robin impregnated Regina's sister like 3 weeks after they broke up, so... 

J/K, of course they'll get TLK!

[YaddaYadda]

If Rumbelle get a TLK which is something I'm expecting anyway, I will throw up my hands in the air because of course they're taking them from 0 to 100, Rumple will have something he does not deserve and then I'll throw up.

 

I hate bringing real life, but this couple and the battered wife syndrome...it's just too much for me.

[Curio]

If Rumbelle get a TLK which is something I'm expecting anyway, I will throw up my hands in the air because of course they're taking them from 0 to 100

 

It would certainly mirror 4A very well. They started out that season totally fine, never interacted or addressed any of their issues, and then BAM! the writers want us to accept this huge emotional fallout that barely had any build up to it. So I could definitely see this half of the season having those two start out in very bad shape, never interact much or address their issues, and then BAM! True Love's Kiss in the finale.

 

Don't these writers know that a relationship scene will pack more of an emotional punch if they have those two characters interacting in significant ways throughout the season to build up to that big emotional impact scene? Quite honestly, none of the main couples deserve a TLK in the finale at this point. Rumple and Belle have barely interacted, and when they did interact, Rumple was usually disguising himself. Robin wasn't even introduced back into 4B until halfway through the season, and Hook and Emma barely interact anymore except for the occasional 1-minute kiss/hug scene to remind the audience they're still a couple, but very few scenes have had actual substance. If we're getting a TLK, I want that sucker to be built up with the couple going on a long adventure together throughout the entire season. At this point, the only relationships with enough screen time to warrant any kind of "True Love _____" would be Emma and her parents or Emma and Regina. All the other couples on this show barely interact anymore.

 

As much as I love Emma and Hook and know that they love each other already, I'd feel incredibly cheated if they got a TLK in the finale. I don't want them to turn into Rumple and Belle where they don't have many significant scenes together throughout the season, only for them to get the big kahuna at the end. Sadly, I could see the writers doing something like that, and then when fans are upset about it, they'd pull the, "But we gave you a magical kiss! Why are you pissed off?" —Because, Adam & Eddy, I don't care about kissing. I care about watching these characters interact and going on a journey together. I would have traded in half of Emma and Hook's kissing/hugging scenes this season if it meant that they could have actually gotten a significant plot line together where they actually got to interact for longer than a minute at a crack.

[YaddaYadda]

I think the TLK is a running gag on this show anyway.  When in doubt, solve it with a TLK.  Is it also one TLK per season?  

 

Season 1 - Emma/Henry

Season 2 - Mary Margaret/David

Season 3 - Regina/Henry

Season 4 - ????

 

Is it sad that I really want something different for CS?  Something that's not a TLK?  It's nothing special anymore and it's almost like it's a right of passage at this point for the couples.  If you haven't had a TLK, then maybe you're not all you're cracked out to be as a couple.  

[OnceUponAJen]

As much as I love Emma and Hook and know that they love each other already, I'd feel incredibly cheated if they got a TLK in the finale. I don't want them to turn into Rumple and Belle where they don't have many significant scenes together throughout the season, only for them to get the big kahuna at the end. Sadly, I could see the writers doing something like that, and then when fans are upset about it, they'd pull the, "But we gave you a magical kiss! Why are you pissed off?" —Because, Adam & Eddy, I don't care about kissing. I care about watching these characters interact and going on a journey together. I would have traded in half of Emma and Hook's kissing/hugging scenes this season if it meant that they could have actually gotten a significant plot line together where they actually got to interact for longer than a minute at a crack.

Seeing as how they haven't interacted much onscreen this half season, I'd agree with that. The kiss at the end of the S3 finale was great payoff, because we got to see them fight together to set things right and come home. We also saw Emma's emotional journey to accept her magic and find her home/family. That kiss between them felt right because of those elements (even though Emma was denying her home/family almost until the last minute). That wasn't even a TLK, and shouldn't have been one. I would expect a similar journey for them with much higher stakes to get to the TLK. I think they now each see the other as being that "something to live for" so the stakes from here on out will be much higher for them.

Edited May 1, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Shanna Marie]

Thinking about the "have Emma and Hook slept together yet?/Surely they'd show their first time" discussion and looking back at the show, I'd have to say we probably shouldn't get our hopes up because they've been pretty ambiguous about the sexual status of most of the not-yet-married couples. Really the only couple (not counting one-night-stands like Whale and Mary Margaret or squicky non-relationships like Regina and Graham) that has a definitive first time is Robin and Regina, where we saw the start of the makeout session and the unambiguous aftermath (it's clear they weren't playing chess), and the thing that makes that a definitive first time is his statement about that being the best "sleep" he's had in a long time. Without that line, their scene in Granny's hallway or their fireside picnic could easily have been seen as "morning after" or foreplay. In fact, that's the way I'd read those scenes before that line, and it made Regina's reaction to Marian's arrival make a lot more sense that way.

 

We've seen David and Snow sleeping in the same bed as a married couple, and there was the "tacos" scene, but we didn't even see the tasteful fade-to-black intro of their first time, and we have no idea when their first time was, if it came before their wedding(s) or only on their honeymoon. His shocked reaction when she told him after the breaking of George's curse that they were going to have a baby (someday) could have been read as the generic "Whoa, a baby!" reaction or a more specific "But that's physically impossible!" I wasn't entirely sure that David and Mary Margaret had actually had sex during the curse until Snow talked to Regina about having slept with a married man. We just saw them having picnics and kissing.

 

We don't know when Rumple and Belle first had sex. There was the scene early in season two (or was it a dream, or did it happen in the dream and then again when she really woke up?) in which she woke alone on one side of a big bed in which the other side had obviously been slept in. On their honeymoon, we saw her asleep in bed and him sitting on the edge of it. Otherwise, I don't think they've even shown them in bed together.

 

We jumped from Emma and Neal's first meeting to them in an established relationship, so we didn't even see their first kiss. We didn't see any of the sexual side of that relationship, so if we hadn't known that she got pregnant, it might even have been ambiguous that they'd had sex at all.

 

So there's precedent that we could learn that Emma and Hook have been sharing a bed all this time or for us to never know when that happens. I'm actually kind of okay about the ambiguity because I pretty much hate TV sex scenes. They just end up looking awkward and uncomfortable for everyone involved. I'd rather have the characters talking.

[orza]

There was a scene of Emma and Neal in the back seat of the bug. What else would two young people be doing in the back seat of a car besides having sex?  It was also pretty obvious in season 1 that Mary Margaret and David were having sex. The scene in The Crocodile established that Rumple and Belle had a normal sex life. Emma and Hook were together as a couple for more than 2 months when the show returned after the break. I would say it's a foregone conclusion that sex is part of their relationship. Adults in relationships have sex. That's normal. The scene in season 2 of Snow and Charming in bed was played purely for comedy. The entire scene was built around the punchline.

 

They are not gonna actually show any sex scenes on this show because 8:00 family show and American prudery, but there are lots of indirect references that the adults on the show do have sex for those viewers who are paying attention and are old enough to pick up on it. The references go right over the heads of the younger kids I watch the show with but the older kids (12 and up) understand and that's fine because 12-year-olds really ought to know about sex.

 

For me the funniest sex reference was in The Outsider when Belle and Rumple are sitting in his car at the town line. My husband, who barely watches the show and just sits on the couch with us to be polite, looked up from whatever medical journal he was reading and blurted out "Well, someone just had the best makeup sex of his life." RC did that again in the shop scene after they returned from Neverland.

[HoodlumSheep]

I think the TLK is a running gag on this show anyway. When in doubt, solve it with a TLK. Is it also one TLK per season?

Season 1 - Emma/Henry

Season 2 - Mary Margaret/David

Season 3 - Regina/Henry

Season 4 - ????

Is it sad that I really want something different for CS? Something that's not a TLK? It's nothing special anymore and it's almost like it's a right of passage at this point for the couples. If you haven't had a TLK, then maybe you're not all you're cracked out to be as a couple.

I also think a TLK is too soon for CS. An ILY would be good though. Another thing; For some reason I 've always believed that CS's TLK would be saved for the end of the series (maybe not the last episode) mainly because Emma's story should be the last to officially finish (seeing how she is the main, main, main character). I can't see CS TLKing for the first time before any of the other couples like OQ, Rumbelle, etc.

[YaddaYadda]

Emma and Hook were together as a couple for more than 2 months when the show returned after the break. I would say it's a foregone conclusion that sex is part of their relationship.

 

Between the I don't pillage and plunder on the first date and then wishing she had her own place, the easy there tiger we got company and the lover reference by Zelena, that stuff has been going on for a while.

[Shanna Marie]

I'm one of those sorry souls who finds screen sex to be pretty boring

I've said that I find watching other people have sex to be like watching other people eat chocolate. Ditto for reading about people having sex. I'm sure it's great for them, but it doesn't do anything for me. And with screen sex, it's only great for the characters. It's difficult and uncomfortable and anything but sexy for the actors. That's screen time that could be devoted to stuff that actually progresses the plot or gives us character development.

 

I'm also okay with them being ambiguous about it so we never know for sure whether or not anything's going on. If it doesn't matter to the plot, we don't need to have it spelled out.

[Camera One]

Maybe all of this is leading to their surprise twist when they do "Toy Story" and reveal that Hook is actually a Ken doll.  

[Dianthus]

Killian will never again be as idealistic as he was in his younger days, but Lt. Jones is still very much part of his character. I think that's why we haven't seen Captain Innuendo in so long. He remembers things like honor, propriety, discipline and self-restraint. He's a gentleman.

[Souris]

I want to know unequivocally that Hook & Emma have had sex. I don't need a steamy sex scene (and I know we won't get one), but I want a kissing move toward a bed or a morning after or something, dammit! If OQ gets effing crypt sex, CS fans deserve something.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Souris

[Faemonic]

Can we just take a moment to reflect on WHY the writers are doing CS and OQ so differently?

 

I'm not saying they should just copy whatever they did with CS when writing OQ. But... when Emma and Hook were separated against their will, with Hook aware that she didn't even remember who he was, when she did remember she had never confessed feelings for him, that she was in another land entirely (with no possibility of keeping in touch via phone)... he still actively refused to sleep with someone else for a whole year. He just couldn't. Robin, after being separated from Regina for... 3 weeks?... goes and sleeps with someone else.

The someone else was Robin's Marian, though. If, during The Missing Year, Hook got caught up in some green fog out at sea and got his timbers shivered by That's Not Really Milah...it would have been handled so, so much better than Robin Hood and the crypt sex while Marian was still frozen. I don't blame Robin Hood at all for trying to rekindle his marriage after he actually separated from Regina, but I do concur that whoever is writing Hook is just...better at it.

 

And off romantic relationships, I continue to be disappointed in the show's lack of camaraderie. What were the Merry Men's relationship with Marian? It's like only Will is the important one and the others are just decoration. How does Killian Jones command the loyalties of crew members that he obviously never cares much for? It's like only Smee is important and the others are just decoration. Does Snow White have any friends who aren't Charming? It's like Grumpy and Happy only drop by to nag her and the others...you know?

[Rumsy4]

Killian, Will, Snow, and Chatming are like set decorations themselves these days. Forget about the people lower in the tier! :-p

[daxx]

Killian, Will, Snow, and Chatming are like set decorations themselves these days. Forget about the people lower in the tier! :-p

I find this very sad, I enjoyed Will in Wonderland and of course love Killian, I miss the Snow and Charming we had early season 3a, they were mostly awesome, minus the cave scene.

[Camera One]

Even though Snow and Charming are among my favorite characters, I almost wish they were even more like set decoration, with no storyline in 4B.  What they have been given in 4B distorts their character and destroys their relationship with Emma much beyond the natural stuff they could have been working through.  This crap isn't even giving them a good acting opportunity.  Looking guilty or shady the entire season isn't exactly high art.  This doesn't inform or develop their character, since we already know they feel bad if they hurt others.  It has not provided more scenes with Emma.   Quite the opposite, now there is a reason to keep them apart and separate even more.  It's sad when you are wishing your favorite characters get no storyline for fear they would be destroyed.  Too late for that for these two.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Camera One

[Ruby Red]

I am so bored now with Captain Swan. It's strange because last year I was all about them, but after 3B the little things began to annoy me. It started to feel one-sided and I wondered why Killian just wouldn't take the hint, because if Emma really was not interested in him then she was not and he should back off. Killian infuriated me when he told Emma, "What about your family?? Don't you care for them?? Why do you want to go to New York" oh how selfish do you sound. Now this season so far, it's just... The lack of reaction from Emma, when Killian almost died because he had his heart ripped out from his chest, Emma's reaction was so mild. I don't even care anymore and Killian's character has really become more useless now.

 

Regina/Emma, is it fanservice and are the writers just baiting the SQ shippers or not? I am undecided because they did have some sort of antagonistic relationship from the start, suppose it is development. But I still would have preferred Elsa (or Ruby or Tink) as Emma's friend.

[Camera One]

I've been thinking lately about why Snow might've preferred Neal for Emma (as she obviously did) over Hook. Neal was never presented as a "villain" like Hook, regardless of how he dicked over Emma. Plus, he did express some regret for what he'd done. Also, too, I can imagine she found Hook too dark and intense for her liking. Neal came across as more laid-back and low-key.

 

Snow was operating on what Emma told her in Neverland.  But regardless of that, I can also see why Snow, or Ginny's understanding of Snow, would have her possibly preferring Neal over Hook, based on what they knew about Hook as of mid-3A.  What Neal did to Emma was horrible, yes.  But I can see how Snow would think Hook, who spent 200 years plotting revenge and who changed sides several times in 2B, could be more unhealthy as a love interest for Emma.  And as others have said before on this same topic, Snow might operate on the naive principle of the Enchanted Forest, of first love being your true love.  

[Dianthus]

Ah yes, the first love = true love thing. Got a belly full of that in the Buffy fandom. The thing is who you are can change greatly over time. Poor Snow didn't even know herself for 28 years, let alone Emma, and Emma had changed a great deal in the intervening years since Neal left her.     

[Mari]

Moved from the spoiler thread.  Anything spoilery has been removed.

 The way Rumple sees "his" women is disgusting.  I still say that Milah died because she dared talk back at him, showed a bigger pair than he ever had.

 

Hook likes his women strong, Rumple likes his weak and under his thumb.

You're right, and it makes a lot of sense, when you look at their own self-concepts.

 

Hook sees himself as a strong person and has a fair amount of self-confidence, except for when it comes to his ability in making moral decisions.  It would make sense that he wants someone else strong around him, and someone that could challenge him.  There's fun in being the one that had the better idea this time, or won the last fight, and a certain sexiness in knowing the person you're with is as strong--or stronger, at times--than you are.

 

Rumple?  He seems to see himself as smart, and good at making choices, but not "showy" enough that the world is able to appreciate his virtues.  Naturally he wants someone who's going to applaud his every move, and let him take the lead.  It's gross, and creepy, but it's one of the few things that has consistently seemed in-character.

[mjgchick]

Hook the feminist Icon. I could never see him fall for Aurora or Belle. He might align with them but he needs someone who will tell him like it is. Makes sense why he fell for both Emma and Milah. I wouldn't even be surprised if Hook slept with Cora and Tinkerbell tbh.

[Mari]

Hook the feminist Icon. . . I wouldn't even be surprised if Hook slept with Cora and Tinkerbell tbh.

I don't know about Tink, ht Cora wouldn't surprise me, even if he didn't find her particularly attractive. I very much had the impression he used his appearance and sexuality as tools when needed.

[KAOS Agent]

If I recall correctly, he tried with Cora and she turned him down.

[KingOfHearts]

If I recall correctly, he tried with Cora and she turned him down.

Might not have been the only time. They had months beforehand working together.

[YaddaYadda]

I doubt anything physical happened between Cora and Hook especially when she uses a line about how he's used to his pretty face buying him a lot.  She just didn't seem to have tons of patience for his shenanigans.  Tink on the other hand?  I wouldn't write that off, but even then, the whole I lose my wings but not my dignity...that being said, he knows what he has and I'm sure he used to his advantage more than once.  

[Curio]

From the writers thread:

Back to the lesser-ranking part of the couple standing around like a potted plant while the "hero" or "villain" Does Stuff with other heroes or villains, broken up about once every four or five episodes with a  "no, no, really baby, you're TOTALLY a hero" pep-talk and/or a supportive "cute" hug.

 

That's the depressing thing about the couples on this show—the writers don't know how to write two equally interesting and dynamic people in a relationship at the same time. I think the closest we've ever gotten was the 3B finale where both Emma and Hook were equally pulling some weight in saving the day and both had interesting character motivations going on. Emma had her struggle with accepting her magic and finding her home and Hook was dealing with trying to break down Emma's walls without pulling out the I-Traded-My-Ship-For-You Trump Card. But even then, they weren't officially a couple yet so I'm not sure we can use that as an example. Snow and Charming in the Enchanted Forest flashbacks could also be somewhat equal, but their current Storybrooke identities have Snow being the leader and Charming being the passive husband.

 

So when you look at the 4 main couples, you've got:

1. Emma and Hook: They have the most potential to be equals in the relationship, but the writers aren't interesting in giving one side of this relationship any plot line right now, so he's stuck being a cheerleader for the savior.
2. Snow and Charming: Snow is the one driving the drama and action while Charming just sits back and does what Snow wants. Charming thinks Emma will turn out just fine? Screw you, Charming. Snow thinks she's going to be evil, so you have to do whatever your wife says about egg-napping.
3. Regina and Robin: It's hard to have an equal relationship when one character is the writers' favorite and the other is a cardboard standup doll.
4. Rumple and Belle: One is an all-powerful dark magician. The other is a meek librarian who—until just recently—always was the encourager in the relationship and never drove the plot.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Curio

[FurryFury]

Considering this set-up, you almost start to understand SQ fans. At least both characters have a real role in the show. Of course, it doesn't fit their established sexualities and backstories, but hey.

[Camera One]

Snow and Charming: Snow is the one driving the drama and action while Charming just sits back and does what Snow wants. Charming thinks Emma will turn out just fine? Screw you, Charming. Snow thinks she's going to be evil, so you have to do whatever your wife says about egg-napping.

 

That might have been the pattern for S1-S3, but on rewatch, I found that in "Unforgiven" and "Best Laid Plans", it wasn't so clear-cut.  Snow and Charming both took the lead at various moments, to the point where it was impossible to predict which of them would advocate for what.  When one character wanted to change their mind, the other character proposed the opposite, for the inevitable and already telegraphed conclusion.  Their conversations went in circles.  It's like the writers now alternate lines between them interchangeably.  It's incredibly disrespectful of these two characters where neither of them have an identity anymore.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Camera One

[Curio]

It's like the writers now alternate lines between them interchangeably. It's incredibly disrespectful of these two characters where neither of them have an identity anymore.

 

I guess that's what happens when two people share the same heart.

[FurryFury]

I guess that's what happens when two people share the same heart.

Do the writers even remember that anymore? I'm not sure.