Happily Ever After: Relationships Are Hard

[KAOS Agent]

What makes me laugh about the Robin/Regina thing is how the writers have made it such insta-love and want us to buy into that. Robin would walk through fire for Marian, was flayed alive for Marian, but a couple dates with Regina and it's Marian who?

At the same time, before the season started people were asking about Captain Swan. Ooh they've kissed now, Emma seems in it, so are they going to move in together? The writers scoffed and said that was crazy, they're just now going to have a first date. It's no wonder the audience has whiplash with regards to relationships on this show. Emma & Hook have been dancing around each other for two seasons and have a developed relationship that makes sense, but the writers are incredulous that people are asking whether they'd move in together. While I think the writers are justified in their incredulity, their writing for Outlaw Queen shows the utter inconsistency in their beliefs. If Hook & Emma can barely get themselves on a date after two years, how the hell am I supposed to see that Robin would be so in love with Regina after a couple of dates that he wouldn't care about his wife and that Regina was the one who'd killed her in the first place? It's ridiculous.

Edited November 7, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Rumsy4]

What makes me laugh about the Robin/Regina thing is how the writers have made it such insta-love and want us to buy into that. Robin would walk through fire for Marian, was flayed alive for Marian, but a couple dates with Regina and it's Marian who?

 

Which basically makes him look like a shallow douchenozzle. Because that's how he will treat Regina as well, if she disappeared for a few years by a curse or something. How can you believe that this man was ever loyal to his wife? It's wildly out of character. Maybe he doesn't love Marian the way he used to. That's understandable.

But to not even care for her to be alive, and basically to run after her murderer/would-be-murderer is plain insane. That vault scene in the Sneak Peek was utterly revolting. What is there to be so conflicted about? If you don't want to be with your wife that bad, her death is not the only other option. Even if divorce was unheard of in the Enchanted Forest, I'm sure there were couples who at least lived apart. Sure, you might feel bad that you can't love her the way you used to, but don't wish her dead! Ugh...

Edited November 7, 2014 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

From the spoiler thread;

That's how I see it. Even if you consider CPR a kiss, being a TLK doesn't factor in to it. Zelena'a curse on his lips had nothing to do with true love, it was just a curse. But still, Hook dying and Emma saving him has already happened. I wish they would do something other than this. But again, the signs and foreshadowing are there. Of course, the signs are also there for Captain Swan to get married this season, but that's a little too much for one half season.

 

Zelena used the way he felt about Emma to curse him.  I just find the whole thing repetitive like everyone.  Technically, they're sort of even in terms of what they would do for each other.  Hook sacrificed his ship to find her and he told her he came back to save her which actually turned out to be true, and she sacrificed her magic to save his life when everything was basically at stake (yes, contrived plot point so that Regina can light magic everything better for everyone).  We all know he will be "dying" or dying, those anvils they've been dropping are not very subtle.  I hope he doesn't die because he's still holding the idiot ball.  And I think the more people (Rumple) think he hasn't changed the more he'll prove them wrong.  I think it really has to do more with that then him proving how much he loves Emma, because we all know how he feels about her.  And he could die trying to save a number of people, David, MM, Henry (belch), BDO.  It doesn't necessarily have to be Emma.  Those are all relationships that he actually sort of has outside of her.  The only one we see is the one with David and we saw something with Henry last season as well.

 

Regarding the wedding stuff.  I got that impression in 321 after Emma gets changed into her EF outfit and she had the cloak on and he pulled the hoodie on her head and was fixing it.  It just really reminded me of a veil.

[retrograde]

Of course, the signs are also there for Captain Swan to get married this season

 

 

Really? I can't think of any signs. What are the signs?

[Serena]

Really? I can't think of any signs. What are the signs?

Yeah, I don't see them (other than a lot of wishful thinking on the part of the shippers). Like, CS shippers think Hook picking up the mood ring from Emma's childhood memories box is a sign of their upcoming marriage. I won't say it's totally impossible that someday, before the end of the show, they'll get married (although I don't think it's really necessary), but CS are the one couple that the writers have decided to attempt to write at a reasonable pace (no "after two dates and being together for a week I can't live without you" shit) so I would be disappointed if they changed it now.

However, the hints that Hook is going to (temporality) bite it? Totally there.

[Shanna Marie]

What makes me laugh about the Robin/Regina thing is how the writers have made it such insta-love and want us to buy into that. Robin would walk through fire for Marian, was flayed alive for Marian, but a couple dates with Regina and it's Marian who?

This is all really some of the worst relationship writing ever because it makes no sense. When Robin gave the infamous "bold and audacious" speech, he was essentially meeting Regina for the first time, since he didn't remember having met her in the Enchanted Forest during the missing year. He had no way of knowing what had happened to her during the curse. The last thing he knew, she was a tyrant who was deposed and then cast a curse. When he first ran into Regina during the missing year, his reaction was "The Evil Queen!" So why, when he's in the exact same mental place because of the memory curse, is his first reaction to meeting her, "Oh, some may call you evil, but you're just bold and audacious"? He hasn't met her, he hasn't had a chance to see her in action to know she's (allegedly) different now. The only thing that's changed is her wardrobe. It makes no sense.

 

Then there's the fact that she spent a year having to work with him in the Enchanted Forest, and even at the end of that year, she still sneered at him. You might be able to read that he was amused by her, since he mostly just rolled his eyes, but she really didn't seem to have any use for him at all (if that was meant to be "Moonlighting" style sexy sexual-tension-laden bickering, they did it wrong). If she spent a year around him and never warmed to him, then the only thing that's different is that she saw the tattoo. That makes her side of the relationship look very shallow because, really, she fell in love with that tattoo because of pixie dust. When it was just him as himself, she held him in utter disdain. If they were supposed to be magically ordained soulmates, shouldn't they have clicked or bonded better even without her seeing the tattoo? The tattoo should have been a bit of "oh, that explains it" after a bond was already there, not the only thing that triggered any kind of interest.

 

And there's the elephant in the room about what happened to Marian. Does he know? If so, it's just sick that he's fawning all over his wife's imprisoner and would-be executioner, the person who's the reason he was separated from his wife for all that time. If not, why not? His wife miraculously returns from being believed dead and he doesn't so much as ask where she's been? All he does is side with his girlfriend when his wife refers to her as a monster without hearing his wife out on what happened? He's giving Rumple some stiff competition in the Worst Husband in Storybrooke competition.

[Dani-Ellie]

To be perfectly honest, my dream time for a Captain Swan wedding is the series finale. Not only would it bookend nicely with the series beginning at Snow's and Charming's wedding, I think it would be a lovely trajectory for Emma as a character, taking her from the friendless orphan we met in the pilot to a fairy tale princess surrounded by love of family and friends and True Love. It's basically my dream ending for the story of Princess Emma ... her own fairy tale happily ever after.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Shanna Marie]

To be perfectly honest, my dream time for a Captain Swan wedding is the series finale. Not only would it bookend nicely with the series beginning at Snow's and Charming's wedding, I think it would be a lovely trajectory for Emma as a character, taking her from the friendless orphan we met in the pilot to a fairy tale princess surrounded by love of family and friends and True Love.

Yes, that's exactly how I see it, that it should be a bookend. Besides, I think they have a lot of stuff to work through and work out before they get there. They're still struggling a little to get into an actual relationship and see how that works. For a marriage, there's even more to work on because there's the fact that her family isn't totally on board with it yet and the fact that they're literally from different worlds. I'm sure he'd follow her anywhere, but there are still logistical concerns. Like, he needs to figure out what he wants to be when he grows up. What would he do if they stayed in Storybrooke forever? What would he do (other than piracy) if they ended up in the Enchanted Forest? She's got the princess thing to fall back on, and we don't know how the line of succession works, if she's heir to the throne for being eldest, but still, what would she do in the Enchanted Forest?  So, yeah, they've got a long way to go from figuring out if they can manage another date to actually having a wedding.

[stealinghome]

I've long thought that the series finale would be Emma's wedding. There's no way this show would be able to resist that level of schmaltz.

[RadioGirl27]

To be perfectly honest, my dream time for a Captain Swan wedding is the series finale. Not only would it bookend nicely with the series beginning at Snow's and Charming's wedding, I think it would be a lovely trajectory for Emma as a character, taking her from the friendless orphan we met in the pilot to a fairy tale princess surrounded by love of family and friends and True Love. It's basically my dream ending for the story of Princess Emma ... her own fairy tale happily ever after.

Yeah, it would be the perfect ending. But I fear the level of contrived and absurd angst the writers can throw to Emma and Hook until that final season. I mean, what are they going to curse in season 7? Hook's ears? His lungs?

Edited November 8, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[MadyGirl1987]

With all the shipping in the OUAT fandom, I thought this would be amusing to people...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/emmamariemusic/17-struggles-of-having-an-otp-11sp6

[Mari]

Going away from romantic relationships just for a bit--but the Henry/Rumple relationship.

 

I know Henry is going into it intending to use Rumple and his resources to help Regina, but he's been a pretty friendly kid who attaches to people who treat him well.  Plus, Rumple lost Neal, and Henry is as close as Rumple will ever get to Neal ever again.

 

Yes, if he thought it was necessary, Rumple would drive right over Henry. But, then, he'd likely drive right over Belle, too.  What I can't decide, is how sincere and enthusiastic is Rumple about starting a relationship with Henry?  And what are the chances that both Rumple and Henry are going to come out of spending time together more attached than they'd originally thought?

[Rumsy4]

Yes, if he thought it was necessary, Rumple would drive right over Henry. But, then, he'd likely drive right over Belle, too.  What I can't decide, is how sincere and enthusiastic is Rumple about starting a relationship with Henry?  And what are the chances that both Rumple and Henry are going to come out of spending time together more attached than they'd originally thought?

 

If/When Rumple finds out the kid's been using him to help Regina get a Happy Ending, he won't be happy. And if Henry accidentally stumbles upon one of his two secrets (the Dagger/the Hat), Henry had better run away as fast as he can. 

Edited November 10, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Mari]

If/When Rumple finds out the kid's been using him to help Regina get a Happy Ending, he won't be happy. And if Henry accidentally stumbles upon one of his two secrets (the Dagger/the Hat), Henry had better run away as fast as he can. 

Yes.  And I'm interested to see where Rumple's reaction will go--we know he won't actually kill Henry, because, well, Regina would be sad and that would make A&E cry tears of horror--but, will Rumple want to react with Snail Revenge, or the way he does when he's angry with Belle? 

 

Being betrayed by Baelfire's son?  That'd sting.  But, still, Baelfire's son.  Baelfire's son that Rumple has started to really get to know.  That would be an interesting fallout.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Mari

[Rumsy4]

I have to ask: why do people ship Outlaw Queen? I'm trying to understand here. I see people reblogging their kiss and squeeing over the fact that he's not giving up on his "True Love". The writers were trying to apply Will's speech about believing in a person's goodness and never giving up on someone, to OQ, but I really don't get it. It's confusing from beginning to end. 

[Souris]

I have to ask: why do people ship Outlaw Queen? I'm trying to understand here. I see people reblogging their kiss and squeeing over the fact that he's not giving up on his "True Love". The writers were trying to apply Will's speech about believing in a person's goodness and never giving up on someone, to OQ, but I really don't get it. It's confusing from beginning to end. 

 

Because the writers have told the audience that they're soul-mates, and why can't poor Regina just be happy? Plus fairy dust!

 

It's contrived and plastic as hell, IMO, but a large portion of viewers will accept whatever they're told to accept. You know what P.T. Barnum said. 

[Camera One]

Going away from romantic relationships just for a bit--but the Henry/Rumple relationship.

 

I know Henry is going into it intending to use Rumple and his resources to help Regina, but he's been a pretty friendly kid who attaches to people who treat him well.  Plus, Rumple lost Neal, and Henry is as close as Rumple will ever get to Neal ever again.

 

Yes, if he thought it was necessary, Rumple would drive right over Henry. But, then, he'd likely drive right over Belle, too.  What I can't decide, is how sincere and enthusiastic is Rumple about starting a relationship with Henry?  And what are the chances that both Rumple and Henry are going to come out of spending time together more attached than they'd originally thought?

 

They've placed the two characters in an interesting place, but they are not dealing with it on any level.  They did use it to throw in a good joke about furniture polish, so mission accomplished.

[KAOS Agent]

 

The writers were trying to apply Will's speech about believing in a person's goodness and never giving up on someone, to OQ, but I really don't get it.

 

Well they then had Robin saying he lived by this honorable code, but the hell with that let's get it on woman. Is this supposed to be romantic? Or were they trying to say this is so totally messed up? At this point, Regina ought to be down on her knees thanking Emma for bringing back Marian and helping her to see Robin's true colors because wow does he suck. Run away, Regina!

[FabulousTater]

I've decided that being involved in any way with Regina just brings out the total worst in people. Snow is a doormat, Henry cheerleads for psychos, and Robin Hood has morphed into this wretch. I'm telling 'ya, Daniel dodged a bullet by getting killed because he died with his dignity intact.

[Mari]

This was moved from the speculation without spoilers, but contained no actual speculation.

Rumple is a seer an an expert on True Love, . . .

That's an interesting point and I'd never really put it together before--that not only is Rumple a seer, but he's an expert on True Love.  Talk about the cobbler's children having no shoes.  It's interesting that considering his insight into the way people behave, and the way they love, he keeps completely messing up his own relationships.   Most of his problems with Baelfire and Belle could've been avoided if he turned that keen eye on himself.

 

I have a good friend who ships OQ, which confuses me too. I'm just not seeing it as a good story of true love. There are too many holes in that package. I can handle redemption, failure, rescues, angst, etc. But this doesn't work for me.

 

I just want a scene of Will telling Robin, "Dude, that's not what I meant."

Yes.  I just don't get it.

• He's married and his wife is in the fairyland version of coma.. 
• Regina tortured and (sort of) killed his wife.
• Regina is exactly the type of person he used to fight against and is just fine with all of the actions that go with that.
• They didn't like each other until Regina saw his tattoo--not "fought their attraction", but couldn't stand each other.
• They've had approximately 8 conversations--3 of which consist of Regina telling him to go back to his wife.
• He won't leave his wife, but he won't leave Regina alone, even though she's asked him to do that.
• They're spending time in Regina's Loot and Trophy Crypt, and neither one bats an eye--shouldn't someone who is so devoted to honor be creeped out by being surrounded by other people's stolen hearts? 

I just don't get it--all of this adds up to gross, not romantic.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Mari

[Shanna Marie]

And to add to the "this is wrong on so many levels" list:

• Marian was the one who inspired Robin to change his ways and become someone who robs from the rich to give to the poor as a way of fighting injustice.
• Marian gave up everything to be with him, even though living as an outlaw was difficult for her, but she was willing to sacrifice for love.
• After being reminded of this, Robin went to go kiss (and probably have sex with) Regina.

[Camera One]

It just makes no sense on so many levels.  I mean, if they needed an endpoint where Robin couldn't resist and he goes to kiss Regina, fine.  But why write that scene with Will?  That's no logical reason for it and I really can't understand how they could sit there and think that was a good idea.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Camera One

[angelwoody]

 

And to add to the "this is wrong on so many levels" list:

• Marian was the one who inspired Robin to change his ways and become someone who robs from the rich to give to the poor as a way of fighting injustice.
• Marian gave up everything to be with him, even though living as an outlaw was difficult for her, but she was willing to sacrifice for love.
• After being reminded of this, Robin went to go kiss (and probably have sex with) Regina.

 

So, based on this, what the show has really shown us about Robin Hood is that he was only good, noble, ethical and dedicated to fighting injustice while Marian was around to act as his moral compass.  Once she is removed from his life, he slips back into being a directionless ne'er do well as well as a neglectful father and a semi-stalker.  I just can't get over the fact that this waste of oxygen is supposed to be THE Robin Hood...

[FurryFury]

It just makes no sense on so many levels.  I mean, if they needed an endpoint where Robin couldn't resist and he goes to kiss Regina, fine.  But why write that scene with Will?  That's no logical reason for it and I really can't understand how they could sit there and think that was a good idea.

I think we were supposed to parallel Marian not giving up on Robin despite his past misdeeds with Robin not giving up on Regina. Of course, Marian didn't have a comatose husband at the time she went with Robin, but hey, details.

[Mari]

I think we were supposed to parallel Marian not giving up on Robin despite his past misdeeds with Robin not giving up on Regina. Of course, Marian didn't have a comatose husband at the time she went with Robin, but hey, details.

Wow.  I'm glad I didn't quite make that connection when I was watching--I'm not sure the thread and beads I was working with would've survived.

 

So, we're supposed to think:

Marian didn't give up on Robin means Robin shouldn't give up on Regina?

They used his wife's devotion to him to justify him cheating on her? 

 

 

Wow.  Huh.  That's . . . bad.

[Camera One]

You don't give up on love.  Even if you're married.  This is the lesson of the day, children.  Now sing "Do You Want To Build a Snowman".  No? Ice cubes give everyone nightmares now?  Please, parents, don't let your children watch this show.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Camera One

[retrograde]

Robin to Will: I was just a two-bit thief stealing whatever I pleased before Marian came along.

 

Robin to Regina: My whole life I have lived by a code: steal from the rich and give to the poor. Be truthful, righteous, and good.

 

WHICH IS IT, ROBIN?

[Camera One]

Robin to Regina: My whole life I have lived by a code: steal from the rich and give to the poor. Be truthful, righteous, and good.

 

At least he didn't say Selfless, Brave and True, or he would have promptly turned into a wooden statue.

[Rumsy4]

Two dates and a Wicked Witch showdown later, Robin is in love with Regina to the point where he thinks it's True Love. He thinks that TL justifies going after his wife's would-be murderess, because True Love is so rare. At the very least, he could have told Regina that he would leave Marian once her curse was broken. But wait, Marian may never wake up. But who cares, right? And should Roland even be in consideration? Marian doesn't matter anymore.

Robin comes across as needy and desperate for sex. Maybe no one was avaliable or willing to scratch that itch? They've already established that Marian is too vanilla, while Regina is the kinky sex goddess. I mean, Vault!Sex screams S&M. The other Operation Regina is involved in is probably 50 Shades of Hood. Let's hope Henry doesn't stumble upon it.

[kili]

If Marian dies, I hope she comes back and haunts Robin's butt for eternity.

 

The only good thing about Marian dying would be that she would be rid of that feckless Robin. I don't want her haunting him because he doesn't deserve even that much attention from her. Go, be free, Marian!

 

WHICH IS IT, ROBIN?

 

It's both. He's such an entitled a$$ his noble deeds since Marian introduced him to the path of goodness erases all his past. This is the guy who thinks the Evil Queen is bold and audacious because she's helping to look for Zelena and the fact that she imprisoned, tortured and was about to kill his wife is no reason he shouldn't snog her while his wife lies in a magical coma.

 

I still cannot believe they used the Marian-fixed-my-life-and-sacrificed-everything-for-me diner discussion as the impetus for Robin to cheat on her. I am agog.

 

Marian is way, way, way, way to good for Robin.

[Serena]

At this point they've GOT to be doing this on purpose, right? There's no way they wrote a "Marian changed my life for the better, she sacrificed so much for me, she's the reason I have this code I'm so proud of" scene, and then the scene immediately after is him cheating on her, and think we are NOT supposed to view Robin as an asshole, right? Like I know they sometimes write stuff with Unfortunate Implications without realizing it, but this seemed... way beyond.

[Mari]

At this point they've GOT to be doing this on purpose, right? There's no way they wrote a "Marian changed my life for the better, she sacrificed so much for me, she's the reason I have this code I'm so proud of" scene, and then the scene immediately after is him cheating on her, and think we are NOT supposed to view Robin as an asshole, right? Like I know they sometimes write stuff with Unfortunate Implications without realizing it, but this seemed... way beyond.

I don't know.  These are the same people that thought Eva telling her old family friend and former fiancé that his replacement fiancée was conning and stealing from him (and pregnant with someone else's child) was a horrible, life-ruining, wrong thing.

 

The same people who've spoken a few times about Regina being actually the biggest victim on the show, and how much she should get happiness.

 

Ethical issues seem to be something they don't quite grasp.  Or see from a distant shore, even.

[Curio]

They used [Robin's] wife's devotion to him to justify him cheating on her?

I just don't understand how this shit flies for Outlaw Queen, because if it were any other relationship on the show, it would be sketchy as all get out.

 

Snow: David, thank you for always believing in me and being the best husband ever. Your courage and faith in my abilities as a ruler has given me the courage to finally go make out with Dr. Whale.

David: What?!

 

Emma: Hook, the fact that you gave up your ship for me and the way you always encourage me to embrace my magic is remarkable. So remarkable, in fact, that it has made me realize I need to embrace the magic that is brewing between me and Walsh.

Hook: What?!

 

Rumple: Belle, it's a miracle that you still see goodness inside of me, even though I'm blatantly evil and lie to you all the time. Because you never give up on me, I've finally realized I should never give up on my one true love: obtaining all the magic in the world using the Sorcerer's Hat!

Belle: What?!

 

On second thought, maybe that last example doesn't work...

Edited November 10, 2014 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

I'm not sure I like how Regina is being portrayed in regards to Outlaw Queen. I was proud of her for dumping Robin and telling him to get away from her, but then it seems she's being passive and wishy-washy about it. Doing what's right isn't her forte, but it's out of character for her to just go with the flow. Regina is usually a very decisive woman. When she's saying she doesn't want a relationship, while in the back room she's staring at pictures and making out with the guy, it smells of another contrivance to fit the plot. Logically, Regina shouldn't want Robin at all. Frankly, in her mind, the book author is a better deal. Since there's no real love in Outlaw Queen to speak of, I find it hard to believe she can't get over him.

 

She doesn't truly love him, and she doesn't need the "happy ending" from him because she found another way. Why is she still with the guy when she doesn't need him any more? Pleasure desperation? 

[Camera One]

She hasn't had someone who cared about her, especially romantically, for a very long time.  For Regina, her feelings for Robin are closer to love than anything she has felt since Daniel.  She is resisting her wish to be with Robin, but she clearly still cares about him, is attracted to him, and wants him, regardless of our assessment of whether it is "true" love or genuine love.  I agree that Regina is being very passive, but I wish she'd get a life and a hobby.  That's the way to deal, not wallowing in it inside a crypt.  

[KingOfHearts]

 

She hasn't had someone who cared about her, especially romantically, for a very long time.  For Regina, her feelings for Robin are closer to love than anything she has felt since Daniel.

 

I don't think Robin does anything for her that Daniel did, though. I don't see why she loves him in the first place, if only to get her romantic desires satisfied. But she's got the book author, who can, in her eyes, fulfill whatever need she has. If she's trying to look good for people, then making out with a married dude isn't exactly a good strategy. She avoided him for that very reason. It defeats her entire purpose of trying to revive Marian and look for the book author. If she's got Robin, she doesn't need to do either.

Edited November 10, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[formerlyfreedom]

Wow, came in here expecting conversation on the Snow Queen's relationship with her sisters, Rumple's relationship with ANYONE, Emma's with her folks...but we're still talking Outlaw Queen?

 

C'mon guys - throw a mod a bone here. There are SO many relationships to talk about! Can we give Regina and Robin a break for one day???

 

:)

 

Thank you for your consideration!

[KAOS Agent]

But there's adultery and forbidden love and comas. It's Once Upon a Days of Our Lives! Next, we'll see Marian possessed by the devil and levitating while spewing ice.

 

Alright, to turn the topic, what the hell was up with Belle begging Rumpel to please, please, please help them save Emma and his sarcastic "How can I say no to my beloved wife" response? The dynamic in that relationship sure got weird fast. I have no idea where the writers are trying to take this relationship, but for the first time since "Skin Deep", I'm kind of interested to see what happens. 

Edited November 11, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

 

Alright, to turn the topic, what the hell was up with Belle begging Rumpel to please, please, please help them save Emma and his sarcastic "How can I say no to my beloved wife" response? The dynamic in that relationship sure got weird fast. I have no idea where the writers are trying to take this relationship, but for the first time since "Skin Deep", I'm kind of interested to see what happens.

It's a mystery how that relationship stays afloat. Rumple needs someone weak he can manipulate.. I mean a light in his life, and Belle needs a beast to take care of so she can feel heroic. Those constants should get old after a while: Rumple will get tired of having to please Belle, and Belle will get tired of Rumple staying dark. Besides that arrangement, what is it the couple sees in each other? What makes this relationship True Love... that's what I'd like to know. Right now it's as though they're only together for their own personal needs.

Edited November 11, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I didn't take Rumple's line as sarcastic. I thought he was trying (and failing) to sound as though he was the besotted husband, in order to smooth over the awkwardness of what had happened between him and Belle.

[KAOS Agent]

Hmm. I didn't see him saying it to cover awkwardness. I thought it was a very snide reference to her previous "request" of him. That relationship is definitely in a strange place. Let's be honest, he thinks Belle is nice and all and I'm sure he loves her, but power is his True Love and he really isn't that interested in doing anything other than gaining more of it.

[Serena]

I thought it was interesting. As much as we say Belle doesn't say Rumple's flaws, Rumple hasn't been saying Belle's either (granted, because the writers haven't bothered to write any) and now that he did, he seems less than impressed.

[kili]

I'm beginning to wonder if Marian was the real leader of the Merry Men.

 

We've been told that it was her that inspired Robin to go from a petty thief to fighting for noble causes. We've seen her uphold a strong moral code (not revealing where Snow is hiding - a woman she has never met - even under threat of death). We've seen her being intelligent (not revealing anything about her name to save her family - not even to the friendly prisoner in the next cell - many a captor has used the "friendly cellmate" trick to extract information). We have seen her being bravely defiant (to the Evil Queen in the mirror flashback and to the Snow monster that has already knocked out Robin). She even knows how to use a bow.  She has many characteristics of the legendary Robin Hood.

 

Meanwhile, the Robin we've been shown is a sniveling, whining, non-go-getter. He waffles looking for direction. He puts up a good front when Neal arrives at Rumple's castle, but quickly caves to demands to use his 4 year old child as bait. He has so little control of his men that they steal without his knowledge because they know they need tools in order to feed the camp.  He is deeply hypocritical. He chastises Will for putting the team at risk for a woman he loves when he himself puts the team at risk for a woman he just met (agreeing to guard her heart). His code of honor is something he appears to try to adhere to rather than something he truly believes (the code of honor we know learn that comes from his wife). He describes the Evil Queen as bold and audacious despite all the stories he must have heard living one forest over.

 

Marian is the heart, soul and brains of the Merry Men. What is Robin?

 

Robin started out as the frat boy we saw partying it up at the tavern. Since that scene is pre-Marian, he would have been that heartless horse thief he described. Regina was meant to fall in love with a man with no code of honor and no direction. A man who simply took what he wanted.

 

He then met Marian and she somewhat changed him. She inspired him to be good and noble for her time with him and in her memory afterwards.  Perhaps without her influence, he is just settling back into his natural existence. Returning back to that man that Regina was destined to meet and love.

 

Perhaps the original actor we saw playing Robin was the original Robin. Perhaps when he was killed, Marian replaced him with a semi-skilled horse thief so that they could continue to do the good work of the Merry Men. Perhaps Roland is the current Robin's step-son.

 

This would explain everything. Original Robin and Marian were True Love's (that explains his willingness to risk his life stealing from the Dark One to save her while this one spends his time drinking and playing darts when he's not distracting one of the few people who could save  her - his time would be better spent cracking a book). Marian replaced Robin with New Robin so that they could keep up the good work she started with her True Love. New Robin was inspired and felt noble, but it never really was him. He's shedding the Marian upgrades as he now connects with his own True Love who was always meant to fall in love with a ne'er do well horse thief.

 

I would happy if they close this story arc with original recipe Robin Hood also returning from the dead. Marian and New Robin could amicably split and each return to their own True Love. New Robin can go live in Regina's house while Original Recipe Robin Hood takes control of the Merry Men and gets them some better accommodations.  For some reason, I don't think I'm going to be happy.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Hmm. I didn't see him saying it to cover awkwardness. I thought it was a very snide reference to her previous "request" of him. That relationship is definitely in a strange place. Let's be honest, he thinks Belle is nice and all and I'm sure he loves her, but power is his True Love and he really isn't that interested in doing anything other than gaining more of it.

 

It came across that way to me, also.  He did not like how she acted with the dagger, and that was a dig.  He is super disrespectful of her, but what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander. 

[YaddaYadda]

So I've been wondering how is it that the mirror is evil or reveals the darkness in you when all it does is tell it like it is?  The mirror revealed to Belle that she was completely weak, that her husband thinks her weak and that he is with her because he can manipulate her.

 

So what happens when she realizes everything the mirror told her is the truth?  Does she smile and nod and say I love all of him even the parts that belong to the darkness or does she throw chip at his head and forgive him 5 minutes later?

[FurryFury]

Regina was meant to fall in love with a man with no code of honor and no direction. A man who simply took what he wanted.

 

You know, that's a great observation (and one I bet that has never even occurred to the writers). Regina at that point, I believe, wasn't the Evil Queen yet, but has already started on her path by killing Rumple's other apprentice. So I guess Tink's magic truly worked and they were a true love match!

Edited November 11, 2014 by FurryFury

[Curio]

Marian is the heart, soul and brains of the Merry Men. What is Robin?

Is this rhetorical? Or...or do you want us to actually answer this? Because I can name a body part, but it's not necessarily G-rated.

 

So I've been wondering how is it that the mirror is evil or reveals the darkness in you when all it does is tell it like it is?

Sometimes the truth can hurt more than a lie, especially if you're insecure and in denial. If they cared about Belle as a character, there might be some fallout to her discovering how all the things the mirror said were true, but I have a feeling her mirror confrontation was just a plot set up to introduce the mirror and how it works.

 

Alright, to turn the topic, what the hell was up with Belle begging Rumpel to please, please, please help them save Emma and his sarcastic "How can I say no to my beloved wife" response? The dynamic in that relationship sure got weird fast.

I have no idea what to make of their dynamic right now. I was watching the show with my friend who's more of a casual viewer, and after Rumple said that line, she said, "Are they still mad at each other? Are they still together? I'm confused."

[Rumsy4]

I don't think Rumple meant to say that line in a sarcastic manner, but he may have been a little snide. I'll need to rewatch the scene. It will be very interesting if this is the turning point in their relationship. Until now, Rumple's had an idealistic image of Belle. But now he knows she can lie and abuse his trust. He may not look at it as a mistake she regretted, but more as a flaw he can manipulate.

It will be a nice twist if he begins to lose his love for her. Until now, he's sorta felt bad about decieving Belle. Maybe he won't feel bad anymore. He may even think of modifying her memories so he can leave Storybrooke with Belle once the DQ's spell is cast and her plan is in motion.

[YaddaYadda]

So, the 3 sisters....I guess Helga is to Ingrid what Anna is to Elsa and Hook is to Emma?  The understanding, accepting, the person who takes up for them and so on to these women born to their magic.  I see what you did there show...

[Curio]

So, the 3 sisters....I guess Helga is to Ingrid what Anna is to Elsa and Hook is to Emma?

 

Does this confirm Hook turning into a frozen statue at some point, then?

I thought it was interesting how Ingrid and Helga clearly had a closer bond than Ingrid and Gerda. I was also all ready to roll my eyes when the Duke was trying to lie to Helga about her sister trying to kiss him, but I was pleasantly surprised when she quickly shot that down. Hooray for sisters before misters!