Season 1 Discussion

[terxav]

Please bring on Knightwing, Dick needs a new costume - the cape.     And he needs some updated fiber according to JT.

[Cthulhudrew]

Only about 10 minutes in so far and man! Batman is a real jackass, and he's not even in this show.

ETA: Enjoyed that a lot. The contrast between Robins was cool. We get the backstory of why Dick rejected the Robin mantle and we may end up seeing him take on the Nightwing mantle sooner than I'd thought. Anna Diop is still amazing, and she even changed her outfit (albeit into one that looks pretty much identical but is a pantsuit rather than a minidress). Looks like we'll be getting back to the main story next week.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[phoenics]

How does Anna Diop do that - she's barely in any scenes this episode, but she still lights up the room with her delivery.  She just has ... IT.  When she was like "Quiet.  Sit." and Beast Boy and Raven immediately went mute and then sat in unison, I laughed.  She has the same accent and voice cadence and inflection of a few sista friends of mine - so when she did that with just the slightest bit of annoyance - I laughed.  Sounds just like them.  It's kind of a valley girl accent mixed with a very proper accent.  I only have the proper accent - never picked up the valley girl part, lol.  I love Anna as Starfire.  She brings a nice gravitas to the role.

I really enjoyed this episode - I'm loving the backstory we are getting on Dick and I loved seeing him contrasted with Jason Todd.  Me thinks Dick is conflicted about letting Tony Zucco die like that - he didn't kill him, but he could've helped him and didn't.  How the police weren't totally on a manhunt for him after that, I'll never know.  Maybe they are.  So - was Melting Man dead at the end?  I couldn't tell.

Jason Todd is a little punk bitch.  You can totally see why he ends up the way he does.  Wow.  And no way Batman knew he was doing that stuff - I think Batman saw another Dick Grayson in him but misread the anger.  Dick had righteous anger.  Jason just has anger for figures of authority - except Batman.  Until he doesn't.

Although his scenes in the bar were funny with him smiling and cheesing at everyone.

[phoenics]

On 11/6/2018 at 9:26 PM, rogueprinzess said:

Much like Black Lightning, I don't think the dark, gritty and on-the-nose nature of Titans would mesh well with the DCW. But I wouldn't be opposed to a cool callout scene like Cisco accidentally vibing into the middle of a villain fight or something.

Yeah - I'm fine with keeping it separate - Arrowverse leans toward the cheesy sometimes and this show is trying for much more realism.  It feels closer to the DCEU than Arrowverse and I like aspects of the DCEU.  I feel like what hurt DCEU was less about the "darkness" and more about the poor storylines and the inability of DCEU to laugh at itself.  All dark isn't good.  All light isn't good.  I prefer the mix - I'm hoping Titans can find a good balance between the two.

I'm really excited to see how they're gonna play out things with Rachel/Raven's dad.

[rogueprinzess]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

How does Anna Diop do that - she's barely in any scenes this episode, but she still lights up the room with her delivery.  She just has ... IT.  When she was like "Quiet.  Sit." and Beast Boy and Raven immediately went mute and then sat in unison, I laughed.  She has the same accent and voice cadence and inflection of a few sista friends of mine - so when she did that with just the slightest bit of annoyance - I laughed.  Sounds just like them.  It's kind of a valley girl accent mixed with a very proper accent.  I only have the proper accent - never picked up the valley girl part, lol.  I love Anna as Starfire.  She brings a nice gravitas to the role.

I really enjoyed this episode - I'm loving the backstory we are getting on Dick and I loved seeing him contrasted with Jason Todd.  Me thinks Dick is conflicted about letting Tony Zucco die like that - he didn't kill him, but he could've helped him and didn't.  How the police weren't totally on a manhunt for him after that, I'll never know.  Maybe they are.  So - was Melting Man dead at the end?  I couldn't tell.

Jason Todd is a little punk bitch.  You can totally see why he ends up the way he does.  Wow.  And no way Batman knew he was doing that stuff - I think Batman saw another Dick Grayson in him but misread the anger.  Dick had righteous anger.  Jason just has anger for figures of authority - except Batman.  Until he doesn't.

Although his scenes in the bar were funny with him smiling and cheesing at everyone.

Anna is definitely killing it as Starfire. She plays it in such a way that I'm so interested in peeling back the layers of her character and learning more about her. She also has such an easy and natural chemistry with her co-stars that makes their scenes shine too. The scenes with her and Dick were great; I love that it's not all starry-eyed schmoopiness (even though they are still clearly feeling each other) but just the right balance of slightly awkward and comfortable. I like that Dick feels close enough to Kory to be honest with her about what he's going through and actually listen to her when she comments on it. Even the little joke about her not killing the doctor was cute. I'd like to see her have more scenes with Rachel on a bonding level though, particularly about handling the power that resides in them. But I guess those may have to wait until Kory remembers who she is. 

Jason Todd's parallel to Dick on how to be Robin and how they feel about it was good. It was a great way for Dick to finally get off the fence of whether or not he was really ready to shed the mantle of being Robin for good. It was also interesting to see the perspective of what Dick wanted to be his experience (being raised by Clint) versus what actually happened (being raised by Bruce). Clint thought that Dick needed money and the opportunities that it would provide for him, but Dick wanted love and a sense of family. It's interesting in that while Dick didn't completely "miss out" in life by being raised by a billionaire vigilante, he definitely could have been a much different and perhaps less troubled person if he'd lived according to his parents' will.

But honestly I'm just happy that this part of Dick's story is resolved so that we can get closer to the actually assembly of the Titans. Dick now knows that he's never going back to Robin, so he can fully step into being Nightwing and focus on making his new family work.

[phoenics]

While I'm totally interested in seeing the focus shift to the assembly of the Titans, this show makes me realize I could watch a little mini-series about Dick's backstory.  My hope is that the writers are able to give Kory, Rachel and Gar the same level of focus and attention.

Dick's character comes across as more rich partly because everyone knows Batman & Robin.  It's kinda like how it's easy to write fanfiction - the main story fills in any character gaps a fanfic writer might leave.  Same with this - Batman lore fills in a lot of gaps where Robin is concerned.  I'm not mad at Batman for implanting the chip - that's "love" to Batman - he does it to protect.  To Dick it feels like control, but since I know Batman, I see it from both sides and I only care why Dick is mad at Bruce - because I already know and accept Batman's PoV.  It's because he's Batman, lol.  I do wonder if there was a trigger for Robin's ultimate break with Batman - was it Zucco?  Or something else?

Starfire, Raven and Beast Boy have less of a connection to deep DC comic lore so we have to see their stories unfold.  Hope the show does them justice, especially Starfire and Rachel.

Edited November 18, 2018 by phoenics

[rogueprinzess]

My guess is that Starfire's story will be next season. This one definitely seems to be primarily about Dick and secondarily about Rachel (at least her origin). That's a lot for one season (especially a short one) so my prediction is that Starfire will remember who she is either right before or in the finale, and the second season will explore more of her origins and purpose going forward. I'm okay with that because I feel like Starfire's story is the richest one next to Dick's in this show (mainly because her character has literally lived more than Gar or Rachel). If done properly, it could and should span several episodes and show us many layers. I feel like Rachel and Gar's stories are the ones that are going to unfold before our eyes because they're both so young and still writing their stories.

I agree that I hope we find out what Dick's final straw was in terms of breaking up with Batman. I think the show is being as creative as they can with it since they can't actually use Batman but hopefully it'll be something good.

[Brinny]

Okay, first off: this show has the worst pacing. It's simultaneously too fast and too slow and I don't even know how that's actually possible, but somehow they've pulled it off. 

That being said, I did really enjoy the last 2 episodes. The fight choreography has been particularly well done (even if the editing hasn't done it the best of favours) and I don't know if Brenton Thawaites has some type of training or maybe just a really good stunt double, but either way, the Robin beatdown scenes have been really believable. And the interaction between the 2 Robins was fun too. I wonder if we'll get to see Jason's comic book fate play out on the screen. (If the writing for him is any indication, maybe they're leaning towards setting up a retro phone poll where viewers can text/call to decide if he gets crowbarred?)

Also, yes, Starfire's costume doesn't translate well to TV. Or maybe it's a censorship thing? I don't know. Whatever the reason she's not decked out in essentially a bathing suit, it's totally fine, I get it. BUT WHY DOES THAT MEAN YOU HAVE TO DRESS HER IN PURPLE DISCO PANTS INSTEAD?! Seriously, it's okay that the character doesn't look exactly like she did on the page. And I was willing to forgive the intentional stripper getup because it was relevant to the storyline at least. I mean, it looked ridiculous, but whatever. But what's the excuse now? Anna Diop is so attractive and engaging and really just a delight to watch, but her costuming is just SO distracting that it almost takes me out of every scene she's in. 

Phew. Okay. Rant over. 

[ursula]

Who else expected the episode to reveal that Clayton was involved in the Graysons's murder by either direct betrayal or as a consequence to some illegal shenanigans? Because I spent the episode dreading it, and I was so grateful that he just ended up being bait to lure Robin - and that he didn't die! I really liked the actor and his dynamic with Smol!Dick and adult Dick was so heartwarming. I hope they have a chance to bring him back again (preferably in a flashback because he has strong "character you kill to further the hero's 'growth'" vibes). 

Also that scene where they talk about Dick's double life and he asks - completely rationally - if Bruce knew Dick worked for Batman - was like a mini mind-screw. I've got so used to watching shows where everyone knows the hero's secret identity coughTheFlashcough that that scene caught me completely off guard. 

Jason Todd managed to be both annoying and actually tragic and I like the way the show is deconstructing the concept of Batman recruiting these damaged kids as his sidekicks and how realistically messed up that is. Todd's comments about "we wear bright colours to draw fire for his big entrance" was so creepy, yet made so much meta sense that I (figuratively) shivered at that moment.  

The show reminds me of the last season of the Teen Titans cartoon where the actual Titans became guest stars in their own show. However, as much as I want more facetime with Kory, Raven and Gar, I'm liking the team dynamic so far. Loved, loved, Kory's "Quiet. Sit." to the kids and the way they immediately obeyed her. And I LOL'd at Gary's "can I be Robin?" whisper. And the various Dickory conversations were really, really nice. Coming from another superhero fandom where the female lead/love interest character casting caused an ugly backlash from certain fans ---- it's refreshing to see how the writers clearly have no f***s to give about pacifying those fans, and are 100% invested in progressing the show's OTP. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by ursula

[UNOSEZ]

20 minutes ago, ursula said:

Coming from another superhero fandom where the female lead/love interest character casting caused an ugly backlash from certain fans ---- it's refreshing to see how the writers clearly have no f***s to give about pacifying those fans, and are 100% invested in progressing the show's OTP. 

I can only imagine Candice patton watching this and the current felicity arc on arrow and everyone on black lightning and Legends and going "what the f***" how is everyone getting better writing than me in DC

[MarkHB]

DC gives us a First Look at another new character, arriving November 30....

[phoenics]

On 11/19/2018 at 7:07 AM, UNOSEZ said:

I can only imagine Candice patton watching this and the current felicity arc on arrow and everyone on black lightning and Legends and going "what the f***" how is everyone getting better writing than me in DC

Well - totally off topic - but her screen time is way up this season.  I think the AJK effects are finally gone.

Back to Titans - that line where Jason was talking about how Bats dressed them in the primary colors to draw the fire and make his entrance more dramatic and effective - WOW.  I got a "holy crap" shiver out of that myself.  But ... it's BATMAN... I just can't hate him ever, lol.  He's a douche, but he does what is necessary and I love him for it.  Even though I'm excited to see Dick transition to Knightwing... I also want him to make up with Batman at some point.  

I do love though that the show isn't catering to the haters and is just doing what it wants.  I can't tell though what it intends for Dickory, or as some fans on twitter named them:  The Alien and The Acrobat (String Theory reference).  Clearly they are going to be close friends, but I can't tell if they are going to OTP them.  The Teen Titans fan in me wants that but I'm almost afraid to get my hopes up.  But I do love that they let Kory get close to him in a way it seems no one else has yet.

Love this show.

[MarkHB]

Episode 7: Asylum (11.23.2018)

Quote

The Titans set out to rescue Rachel's birth mother from a mysterious psychiatric facility, but find themselves confronting their deepest vulnerabilities and fears.

[Cthulhudrew]

I think my one complaint about this show is the language. It almost feels like they have some kind of Suits-like mandate that just because they can have swearing on this show, they have to work some in every episode, even when it feels entirely out of place.

Not sure what to make of that ending; I got the distinct impression the Robin suit was all in Dick's mind, and that he'd given his suit back to Jason to return to Bruce at the end of last episode. So where did he get the suit that he was burning?

A pretty stellar episode all around, though the asylum staff seemed really slow to respond to Rachel's escape. I was hoping we'd get a little bit more detail on Kory (revealing her alien nature) and not just her regenerative ability. The scene with Gar's transformation and attack was pretty horrifying and Ryan Potter's reaction was suitably tormented. And of course, Dick was pretty badass as usual, though I was hoping he'd change his mind about blowing the joint. I thought he'd rejected some/all of his Robin-ness last ep, but then again, I can appreciate that it is going to be a journey with ups and downs and not just a sprint to the finish to get him to wherever he ends up. All too often tv shows cut right to the end in the interests of time and drama.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[rogueprinzess]

I really liked this episode. It's not an easy task to depict the type of emotional and psychological damage that the asylum staff inflicted on our group in one episode, but I'm glad it wasn't drawn out over multiple ones. All of the titans had something they needed to break through, and this (albeit horrifying) shared trauma pushed them to it, as well as strengthened their bond as a team. Dick needed that final push to finally say goodbye to the option of returning to Robin. Having the suit (which I assume the asylum peeps took from the van) with him and still donning it whenever he felt like being hyper-violent was still a safety net for Dick; a way back to what was familiar. But after living through beating himself up (figuratively and emotionally) he's finally ready to accept that he made the choices to become and stay Robin as long as he did, and that he has the power to decide what he wants to do going forward - hence the symbolic burning of his costume once and for all.

I felt sorriest for Gar. His reaction to the torture was a bit surprising; to me it showed that he's experienced pain before but also how incredible strong he is. The way he killed that man was completely feral, the type of animal reaction that occurs when pain has been suffered and one's trying to protect themselves. He didn't think about it, and once it hit him he was absolutely devastated. I hope the show doesn't gloss over his PTSD over this, but as sad as it is, he did need to learn to use his claws and teeth for more than just props. I think it may trigger his ability to shift into other things now though so he can avoid this memory associated with the tiger.

My poor dear Starfire. She didn't deserve any of this, especially considering she could have charbroiled all of them in those tunnels and walked out unscathed. While she didn't exactly break through any new powers here, she did have her first run-in with feeling truly vulnerable. I feel that if anything this made her see that she needs the team as much as Rachel needs her.

Rachel is really the only one that didn't have a major breakthrough outside of finding out she can heal-ith and taketh away. I agree that the guards seemed ridiculously slow in trying to recapture her. 

I look forward to next week, it'll be interesting to FINALLY see more about Kory and how she got here.

[Lyanna19]

Can anyone confirm, in the comics Gar is able to turn into any animal or even bird that he wants to, right? So far all we've seen in the show is a tiger...

[Cthulhudrew]

13 minutes ago, Lyanna19 said:

Can anyone confirm, in the comics Gar is able to turn into any animal or even bird that he wants to, right? So far all we've seen in the show is a tiger...

Yes- he can turn into any animal (though they are always- like him- green). I think I read somewhere that the writers will be exploring that eventually, although I can't say for certain as I don't recall where I read it.

[Lyanna19]

@Cthulhudrew thank you! 

Yes they turn green, its going to be an interesting show, love it. 

[phoenics]

On 11/23/2018 at 6:30 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

 

Not sure what to make of that ending; I got the distinct impression the Robin suit was all in Dick's mind, and that he'd given his suit back to Jason to return to Bruce at the end of last episode. So where did he get the suit that he was burning?

 

 

I'm pretty sure he got the suit himself and burned it.  He keeps that thing in a case w biometrics.  Those folks wouldn't have been able to open it.  I don't think the scenes where he was dressed as Robin occurred anywhere else but his mind.

The suit he gave Jason - wasn't that Jason's own suit?  Dick still had his own case.  I think him handing Jason his suit back was more of a "Get out" than him handing over his own suit.

Edited November 27, 2018 by phoenics

[anamika]

So, did Dick contact Hawk and Dove from episode two and let them know what's up. Or find out if Dove has recovered? Is he still a detective?  It seems a bit abrupt, a lot of these DC characters showing up and then not having any further communication....

[rogueprinzess]

I get the sense that Dick hasn't checked in with Hawk & Dove yet; as strange as it seems I think the timelines of show has only been maybe a week or so, despite the show being on for over a month. Hence why the characters only changed clothes recently. So with that in mind, its not so strange that Dick hasn't checked in yet; also the fact that the team has been non-stop busy/being attacked/on the run since they left them.

[Trini]

Short article on the visual effects on the show: https://cgsociety.org/news/article/4197/encore-packs-a-vfx-punch-for-wbtvs-titans

Quote

Considering the core narrative of “Titans,” visual effects are essential to depicting the main characters’ super powers as well as amplifying the high stakes action. VFX Supervisor Armen Kevorkian and his team of 200 artists at Encore VFX delivered nearly 1,200 VFX shots for “Titans” season one, working closely with production to bring the Titans characters to life.

“Our guide for all the ‘Titans’ VFX work was to stay grounded in reality, which is no small feat considering the scope. It’s definitely challenging to sell audiences on a green, photoreal tiger – an image that common sense rejects – but our team made an incredible asset, then did an excellent job animating his movements to appear natural while integrating him into environments in a way that was both pleasing to the eye and believable,” Kevorkian explained.

[VCRTracking]

This isn't tied directly to the TV show but a nice article about the backstory of the characters in the comics:

The Lives and Death of Jason Todd: An Oral History of The Second Robin and A DEATH IN THE FAMILY

[MarkHB]

Episode 8: Donna Troy (11.30.2018)

Quote

As the Titans disband to go their separate ways, Dick decides to turn to old friend and investigative journalist, Donna Troy aka Wonder Girl (guest star CONOR LESLIE), for answers. When he’s soon embroiled in her undercover investigation of a crime syndicate, he realizes that past events have taken more of a psychological toll than he previously imagined. Meanwhile, seeing Kory’s distress over her inability to recover her identity, Rachel attempts to use her powers to heal Kory’s memory… with unintended and frightening consequences.

[MarkHB]

LOVED her!

[madhacker]

40 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

LOVED her!

Donna MUST be a regular next season as Troia, leaving her "Wonder Girl" identity behind like Dick. Can I get a "So say we all!!" on this? She mentioned she still has her outfit in her closet. Her relationship and advice to Dick were absolutely perfect. The last scene of the season better be Dick walking out wearing his Nightwing uniform carrying escrima sticks with taser tips.

My only very small quibble is the fact that Donna is Diana's daughter now (so does that mean Steve Trevor is her father? if so AWESOME!!), in the comics she was Diana's either adopted or real sister. But if this is Berlantis way of finally, finally giving Donna a clear origin story I'll take it gladly. How many origin stories did Donna have in the comic? at least close to a dozen.

Has the show been renewed yet? If so, besides Trigon showing up (we all know that's coming) who else would you guys like to see? Personally, I'd love it if they could get Colton Haynes and Keyan Lionsdale to guest as Arsenal and Kid Flash, either Keyan or get KJ Apa (hey he looks exactly like Wally to me). Also would really love to see Jericho, I'm thinking Cody Fern from AHS if he's available.

[Brinny]

1 hour ago, MarkHB said:

LOVED her!

RIGHT?! She was so good. 

30 minutes ago, madhacker said:

Donna MUST be a regular next season as Troia, leaving her "Wonder Girl" identity behind like Dick. Can I get a "So say we all!!" on this? She mentioned she still has her outfit in her closet. Her relationship and advice to Dick were absolutely perfect. The last scene of the season better be Dick walking out wearing his Nightwing uniform carrying escrima sticks with taser tips.

My only very small quibble is the fact that Donna is Diana's daughter now (so does that mean Steve Trevor is her father? if so AWESOME!!), in the comics she was Diana's either adopted or real sister. But if this is Berlantis way of finally, finally giving Donna a clear origin story I'll take it gladly. How many origin stories did Donna have in the comic? at least close to a dozen.

This show is definitely doing relationships really well. Didn't have to sell me for a second on Donna and Dick being BFFs. (I feel like at least part of that is a testament to the casting, both in terms of just finding the right actors for the parts, but also keeping chemistry in mind. Like, even with how indifferent I am to Teagan Croft's acting, I still think she plays well off of Diop, Thwaites and Potter.)

With respect to the "My dad and her mom used to work together" line, I don't know if that means that Donna is supposed to be Diana's daughter OR if she's still supposed to be her sister and the daughter is the secret identity cover story, with her being adopted like Dick was. In the flashback, Donna referred to her as Diana and not "mom", right? Hopefully Donna will make many more appearances and we can get our answer!

Honestly, with how well they've done so far with adapting comic characters to the screen, it makes me extra bummed that Barbara Gordon isn't up for grabs. Especially considering they're doing the new Birds of Prey movie WITHOUT HER. Boggles the mind. 

Speaking of birds, I don't know how I feel about the next episode looking like it's solely about Hawk and Dove. Figure out your main cast's shit first, then go in with your backdoor pilots. I felt the same way about the Doom Patrol episode. I didn't really know them from the comics and I'm not sure why I should have to get invested in them now, before we even find out about Kory being Starfire. In that way, I still think Titans is suffering from pacing issues. 

I'll leave by saying that Anna Diop looked absolutely gorgeous in that bedroom scene with Kory wearing Dick's shirt. I still maintain that there's no reason to have her wearing purple flame retardant space-foil dresses, even keeping in mind the source material. Let her wear the shiny shit when she's in costume (which, yes, again, requires us to actually GET to Starfire) and that's it. Gar's not green all of the time like he is in the comics. It's okay to deviate a bit, especially with how they seem to be trying to keep the show so much more grounded in reality. (I should note, I don't think Anna Diop looked gorgeous because she wasn't wearing the space-foil, hahaha. She has a very captivating face pretty much all of the time.)

Edited December 1, 2018 by Brinny
darn those typos!

[Primal Slayer]

I enjoyed the episode but needed WAY more Donna Troy. Hawk&Dove were the central plot in their episode and even Beast Boy was heavily featured in his episode. Donna was more about supporting Dick but I loved the history they built with the two. I definitely need her to hang around especially since I was hoping we'd get a cool fight scene with her and need to see her in action.

Looks like they went with the orphan origin where Diana finds her in Mans world and Grant's her the gifts of the Amazon as opposed to her being Dianas twin. The Dark Angel storyline is always interesting to explore.

35 minutes ago, madhacker said:

My only very small quibble is the fact that Donna is Diana's daughter now (so does that mean Steve Trevor is her father? if so AWESOME!!), in the comics she was Diana's either adopted or real sister. But if this is Berlantis way of finally, finally giving Donna a clear origin story I'll take it gladly. How many origin stories did Donna have in the comic? at least close to a dozen.

 

I dont think Diana is her actual mother, she is her mother in the same sense that Bruce is Dicks "father". She said something along the lines of Diana finding her.

[cdnalor]

When Raven's mom mentioned how beautiful the sunlight was, all I could think was "What sunlight?  This is the DC Universe!  Light is either blue, gray, or non-existent."

[Cthulhudrew]

I really like this latest episode, and I'm glad we're getting some much needed back story about a couple of things (notably Rachel), but I frankly get annoyed when tv shows take this route when giving an infodump. It's great that Rachel's mom is talking about Rachel's dad and his followers, but why, why, why wouldn't this discussion have more logically taken place back at the safehouse following their escape, when Dick and Kory and Gar were all present to figure out what was really going on, why these people were after Rachel, and whether or not she was truly safe after torching the asylum? Maybe it wouldn't have fit the writer's long term narrative of moving the plot along to specific geographic and dramatic locations in the story, but it would have made a hell of a lot more sense for the characters themselves. 

(Not specifically a criticism of the show, but really of all shows and stories where writers use this sort of fictional narrator logic over character logic).

Glad to see Donna Troy and her relationship with Dick although I'm a little surprised that he hasn't mentioned Dove and her condition (so far), and that the character's name was only dropped midway through the episode in an offhand reference by the character herself. Not even a "hey, Donna" from Dick when he first knocked on her door.

[Cthulhudrew]

5 hours ago, madhacker said:

My only very small quibble is the fact that Donna is Diana's daughter now (so does that mean Steve Trevor is her father? if so AWESOME!!), in the comics she was Diana's either adopted or real sister.

 

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I dont think Diana is her actual mother, she is her mother in the same sense that Bruce is Dicks "father". She said something along the lines of Diana finding her.

This is my read on it, too. Like Dick, she refers to her "mother" by her given name, rather than by a term that one might associate with being used by a natural born child (mom, dad, etc.). Plus she talks about being given an Amazon upbringing in a way that made me think she was talking about essentially being adopted.

Speaking of which, I loved the contrast she made about the sort of child rearing that was conducted by Diana and Bruce, and how it manifested differently in their adopted children. It makes perfect sense given the histories of those characters.

[phoenics]

Did I miss a scene where BeastBoy walked in on Dick/Kory?  I'm at a loss to how he knows they're a thing?

[rogueprinzess]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

Did I miss a scene where BeastBoy walked in on Dick/Kory?  I'm at a loss to how he knows they're a thing?

I assume that Gar likely ended up, er, hearing them especially if the bedrooms are near each other. Also, Dick & Kory are sharing a room so maybe he saw them entering it together. Not to mention that I wouldn't put it past Kory to make an overt comment.

Also, is this next episode meant to be another backdoor pilot? I just don't get why they would have a bottled episode this late in the season

Edited December 7, 2018 by rogueprinzess
My addled brain

[MarkHB]

12 hours ago, rogueprinzess said:

Also, is this next episode meant to be another backdoor pilot? I just don't get why they would have a bottled episode this late in the season

I haven't watched it yet, but I think it's to leave us frustrated waiting for resolution to the Kory/Rachel cliffhanger from last week.

 

At any rate...

Episode 9: Hank and Dawn (12.07.2019)

Quote

The origin story of Hank Hall and Dawn Granger’s relationship and the loss in each of their pasts that brings them together as vigilante Super Heroes Hawk and Dove.

[Linderhill]

Just finished watching and yeah, frustrated that its all Hawk and Dove.  I couldn't help but be annoyed that they've wasted an entire episode featuring this duo and not resolve the last episode.  I guess its too much to expect them to leave the origin story to their own series.  

[Cthulhudrew]

Holy crap, that was an amazing episode!

My only complaint was when they "yadda yadda"d Hank's abuse story. I want whoever the writer or director or editor was that decided it would be better to cut away from Alan Ritchson's emotional testimony to Minka Kelly right when it was at its strongest, and jump right to him opening a beer and Dawn saying, "I'm sorry." That was such a misstep for the emotional gravity of the scene as well as for the performers. Wow. :(

But otherwise, that was pretty awesome. Hank and Dawn's story of loss and pain and grieving and their choice of how to express and deal with that trauma fits in perfectly with the themes of inappropriate violence and regret that this season has tackled. The shot of Dawn closing the door as Hank beat his childhood abuser was tough to watch because of how it reflects on the two as characters and their mission, even though there was some degree of sympathy to their punishment. I can't imagine the guy must have lived after that- or at least been in any condition to function- because he could have identified his attackers. And Dawn was able to recognize that her relationship with Hank would be enabling behavior for them both, but clearly she wasn't able to stay away. I think we can also see where her attraction to Dick comes from (aside from the obvious, of course).

I don't see how Jason Todd can be of any use here, unless Raven's message is one of desperation because Dick and Donna have already failed in stopping a manic Kory (or perhaps another threat arose that we haven't seen). I'm also not sure how they're going to find him, but I'm biting my nails in anticipation of the next episode.

(EDIT: Saw the promo. Guessing the threat Rachel is trying to get Jason Todd's help with is either "Dark" Rachel or more likely her father.)

On 12/6/2018 at 5:08 PM, rogueprinzess said:

Also, is this next episode meant to be another backdoor pilot? I just don't get why they would have a bottled episode this late in the season

 

To the best of my knowledge, they aren't launching another series just yet (other than Doom Patrol), but Hawk and Dove are supposed to join this version of the team once it actually solidifies as a team.

I could be wrong, though. In any case, I'd watch a Hawk and Dove show with AR and MK.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[Primal Slayer]

It was a good episode, I have been surprised at how much I enjoy Hawk & Dove. But like I thought...totally stopped the main plot dead in its tracks just to give us an origin story which kills the vibe of the ending of the last episode.

9 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

To the best of my knowledge, they aren't launching another series just yet (other than Doom Patrol), but Hawk and Dove are supposed to join this version of the team once it actually solidifies as a team.

I could be wrong, though. In any case, I'd watch a Hawk and Dove show with AR and MK.

There is an option to spin off Hawk/Dove but for the time being they'll be part of the time if DC doesnt do so.

[Cthulhudrew]

10 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

There is an option to spin off Hawk/Dove but for the time being they'll be part of the time if DC doesnt do so.

Didn't know about the option to series, though I guess I'm not surprised. I wasn't as bothered by "episodus interruptus" as I thought I would be, but I do hope they don't have any interruptions in the rest of the episodes for the season.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Didn't know about the option to series, though I guess I'm not surprised. I wasn't as bothered by "episodus interruptus" as I thought I would be, but I do hope they don't have any interruptions in the rest of the episodes for the season.

There's only 2 episodes left so it should be full throttle from here on out.

[Cthulhudrew]

53 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

There's only 2 episodes left so it should be full throttle from here on out.

I thought there were 3 more left to come. Did they only get an 11 episode order? (Or is one a two hour finale?)

Edited December 8, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[Brinny]

3 hours ago, Linderhill said:

Just finished watching and yeah, frustrated that its all Hawk and Dove.  I couldn't help but be annoyed that they've wasted an entire episode featuring this duo and not resolve the last episode.  I guess its too much to expect them to leave the origin story to their own series.  

Or at least wait until you’ve established all of your own main characters first? 

There’s, what? 11 episodes total? 12? Why are we doing an entire episode about characters who aren’t even Titans in the first season? 

What’s frustrating is that it wasn’t even a bad episode. It was an interesting story and it was fairly well-acted. But the placement of it was all wrong. It felt especially off considering they did a whole huge “previously on” for literally about 30 seconds worth of relevance at the end. “Hey, remember that huge cliffhanger we left on! Psyche! Here’s a revenge storyline about sexual abuse!” It was just jarring is all. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Brinny said:

Or at least wait until you’ve established all of your own main characters first? 

There’s, what? 11 episodes total? 12? Why are we doing an entire episode about characters who aren’t even Titans in the first season? 

What’s frustrating is that it wasn’t even a bad episode. It was an interesting story and it was fairly well-acted. But the placement of it was all wrong. It felt especially off considering they did a whole huge “previously on” for literally about 30 seconds worth of relevance at the end. “Hey, remember that huge cliffhanger we left on! Psyche! Here’s a revenge storyline about sexual abuse!” It was just jarring is all. 

Because even more so then the Arrowverse, DC is using Titans to launch all these backdoor pilots.

[Brinny]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

Because even more so then the Arrowverse, DC is using Titans to launch all these backdoor pilots.

No, I get why they’re doing it in general  

But as far as I know, Arrow didn’t try to do a backdoor on Flash before telling us who Black Canary was (to be fair I don’t watch Arrow and with how they treated Laurel they could have done exactly that.) Or on The Flash when they wanted to launch Legends, they didn’t have a cliffhanger where Killer Frost is going to murder Cisco and then do an entire episode devoted solely to the background of Firestorm. 

It’s poor pacing. 

[MarkHB]

Wow... Intense, powerful episode... And for me, if they were going to choose between extra focus on child molestation or Minka standing in the shadows for what to use their TV-MA rating on, I'll happily live in the shallow end. 

And oh, that preview.

ETA: COUNSELOR TROI! Terrific fun, that casting.

[rogueprinzess]

On 12/8/2018 at 2:41 PM, Brinny said:

Or at least wait until you’ve established all of your own main characters first? 

There’s, what? 11 episodes total? 12? Why are we doing an entire episode about characters who aren’t even Titans in the first season? 

What’s frustrating is that it wasn’t even a bad episode. It was an interesting story and it was fairly well-acted. But the placement of it was all wrong. It felt especially off considering they did a whole huge “previously on” for literally about 30 seconds worth of relevance at the end. “Hey, remember that huge cliffhanger we left on! Psyche! Here’s a revenge storyline about sexual abuse!” It was just jarring is all. 

THIS! I feel like the episode pacing was also a bit off; more than once I felt the length of a scene because the focal point was vague. But the timing of this episode is what's especially strange. I feel like they could have split this episode into small parts of earlier ones; it would have kept us up on what was happening with H&D while still moving the plot along. I also feel like Dawn's story was kind of glossed over compared to Hank's. 

Anyways, very ready for episode 10. 

[Kromm]

On 12/1/2018 at 3:21 PM, madhacker said:

 

My only very small quibble is the fact that Donna is Diana's daughter now (so does that mean Steve Trevor is her father? if so AWESOME!!), in the comics she was Diana's either adopted or real sister. But if this is Berlantis way of finally, finally giving Donna a clear origin story I'll take it gladly. How many origin stories did Donna have in the comic? at least close to a dozen.

 

She's no more Diana's daughter than Dick is Bruce's son.   I think you misinterpreted a cover story as a fact.

[MarkHB]

Episode 10: Koriand'r (2018.12.14)

Quote

As Kory’s memories come flooding back, she discovers her true mission, regarding Rachel. While Dick and Donna discover Kory’s alien origins, Rachel uses her powers to save Gar.

[Primal Slayer]

Such a disappointing episode. We barely got any time on Kory and her origin story. The way it played out it could've been done in 5 minutes way back when. I dont understand how we get an entire 2 episodes dedicated to Hawk/Dove but we spend like 10mins on Kory? In fact this entire episode could've played out last episode.

[Primal Slayer]

[Delphi]

Jesus,  that is pretty dark for a finale, like far darker than I expected.   I'm not sure whether I believe it's real or some sort of hallucination.