S10.E10: The Hunter Games

[Tara Ariano]

Sam and Dean double their efforts to find a cure for the Mark of Cain, after the massacre at the ranch. Meanwhile, Rowena plots against Crowley; and Castiel tries to mend his relationship with Claire, who is bent on revenge against Dean for killing her friend.

[Guest]

It's been awhile since a new episode has aired.  This is just a reminder.

[SueB]

Wow. Some of that was outstanding.  Some was...WTF.  Some was...why is this here.  But the outstanding part was...outstanding.

 

Outstanding:

Sam/Dean/Cas/Metatron - I loved just about every step of the way. I thought they were a little cavalier about bringing down Metatron but I thought the Metatron/Dean scenes were fanf*ckingtastic. I'm soooooo glad they talked about Kevin.  I miss Kevin. 

 

WTF

Claire.  Yes, they needed to clean this up. But they let this teenager just wander off to NOWHERE???  This is a suck-tastic solution.  The only good thing was her telling Cas to wear the tie.  I support that decision.

 

Why Was This Here

Crowley. I mean I loved the brief moment we got with him back with Sam and Dean. And I kinda like how familiar Crowley and Dean are on the phone.  But...Rowena?  How could Crowley possibly fall for this??  She's nothing but Bad News.  Cool spell to follow him, however.  I need Crowley to handle Rowena.

[Jediknight]

Granted she wised up, but Claire's dumber than a doorknob.  Yes those 2 random people you just met are going to stand a chance against a guy who's been fighting demons for most of his life, and just killed about 7 people with no problem.  Next she's going to meet a weightlifter who she thinks can beat up Brock Lesnar or Haku/Meng.

 

Don't care about Crowley's mom.  Just bring the bromance back, and also Cain.

[Tippi Blevins]

I think I feel worse for that poor, innocent bench than I did for Randy and all those dirtbags.

 

They finally mentioned Cain! Hallelujah! But then they didn't mention contacting him... I just don't get it.

[kimrey]

How annoying is Claire?  Like, seriously.  I'm going to put her next to Krissy on my list of Most Annoying Characters on Supernatural.  Can she be gone for good now, please?  They left it too wide open so I fear we will see her again...but please, no.

Also annoying?  Rowena.  She's boring.

Scary Dean is pretty awesome.  I'm interested to see where they're headed with all this and just how dark he's going to get.  Also, his first interaction with Crowley since being a demon was pretty underwhelming.  I was expecting something different.

 

Hey, Sam!  You're still around even though we don't see much of you.  I hope you get to do some more interesting things in the second half of the season.

Edited January 21, 2015 by kimrey

[Pete Martell]

Why Was This Here

Crowley. I mean I loved the brief moment we got with him back with Sam and Dean. And I kinda like how familiar Crowley and Dean are on the phone.  But...Rowena?  How could Crowley possibly fall for this??  She's nothing but Bad News.  Cool spell to follow him, however.  I need Crowley to handle Rowena.

 

Rowena manipulating Crowley is one of the only reasons I'm even interested in Crowley at the moment. The rest is "moose" and "squirrel" and lolgay jokes and him reluctantly ruling Hell. I like seeing her rattle him. I thought they actually did a good job of showing how she managed to wear him down - controlling his dreams and then making his dreams a reality. It was a little ridiculous (and her theatrics test my patience), but I like seeing him rattled and seeing her isolate him. It's a toxic relationship, but fits with most of the parent/child relationships on the show. It was also a good contrast to Claire and Cas, who was trying his best even if he couldn't do anything to help save her.

[SueB]

 

It's a toxic relationship, but fits with most of the parent/child relationships on the show.

That could almost be a byline on the show...ParentProblems. 

[7kstar]

How annoying is Claire?  Like, seriously.  I'm going to put her next to Krissy on my list of Most Annoying Characters on Supernatural.  Can she be gone for good now, please?  They left it too wide open so I fear we will see her again...but please, no...

 

Hey, Sam!  You're still around even though we don't see much of you.  I hope you get to do some more interesting things in the second half of the season.

I'm fine if Claire left and never showed up again.  Loved Dean being dark... and the scene with Sam and Dean.  But if they put Dean on the back burner to give Sam a storyline I won't like it.  Why not try something new, two brothers equally fighting the battle together...Although finally seeing Sam trying to be the care taker is a nice payback since Dean has done it for him for years. 

 

Talk about stupid, leaving Dean alone with Metratron.  Although I would be fine if he left the show.  Not exactly interesting and I have to admit I didn't even care that Dean was torturing him.  Was I really suppose to?

 

ETA:  I really only had time to watch the last half.  I have to leave town so I'll have to watch it all later.  But do they really have to work so hard to make Sam and Cas look so stupid.  How many times are we suppose to buy Dean on his own to create drama.  example how differently would it have been if Sam had to meet Claire on her own?

Edited January 21, 2015 by 7kstar

[Pete Martell]

Granted she wised up, but Claire's dumber than a doorknob.  Yes those 2 random people you just met are going to stand a chance against a guy who's been fighting demons for most of his life, and just killed about 7 people with no problem.  Next she's going to meet a weightlifter who she thinks can beat up Brock Lesnar or Haku/Meng.

 

She may have thought he'd be taken by surprise.

 

I don't think she really thought the plan through. When she did, she tried to stop it. 

 

I do wish they'd had a scene together before she left, as she was his mirror. 

 

I like Claire, even though the writing here was more than a little clunky, but I don't mind if this is it for. She left alive, and we got another cool shot of a young blonde woman walking off to an uncertain future (Kate, the first Meg...sort of), which I always like. And she saved herself from going down a very dark road, which means that since Dean is her mirror, he can do the same. 

Talk about stupid, leaving Dean alone with Metratron.  Although I would be fine if he left the show.  Not exactly interesting and I have to admit I didn't even care that Dean was torturing him.  Was I really suppose to?

 

I think we were supposed to care for Dean (going too far), not about whether Metatron was injured. 

 

I can take Metatron in small doses, because Curtis Armstrong does a great job and has a lot of energy (which the show needs more of...), but that's about it. 

[catrox14]

I was actively rooting for Dean to torture every fucking cell of that POS Marvatron. I wanted him to torment him forever and ever.

And I am sorry but Dean all amped up and stabby is truly scary and truly hot. I was kind of hoping demon!Dean would peak his head out. I refuse to give up that dream (oh far I have fallen since the s9 finale).

I am so disgusted with Claire. I hate how they took that really cool chick of s4 and turned her into the single most annoying teenager to ever be on the show. MV.

[kimrey]

But if they put Dean on the back burner to give Sam a storyline I won't like it.  Why not try something new, two brothers equally fighting the battle together...Although finally seeing Sam trying to be the care taker is a nice payback since Dean has done it for him for years.

 

 

Oh, I definitely don't want them to put Dean on the back burner and I'm totally cool with Sam being in a supportive role.  I just feel like he hasn't had much interesting to do this season and I was sad to not even see him at all at the end of the episode.  I was hoping he would go with Dean when he went to see Claire.

 

I'm all for the brothers working together.  That's literally what I watch this show for.  Everything else comes second.

[rue721]

Claire.  Yes, they needed to clean this up. But they let this teenager just wander off to NOWHERE???  This is a suck-tastic solution.

 

If this is it, then what was the point of Claire? Just to create a damsel in distress so that when Dean murdered all her human captors, it wouldn't seem too repulsive?

 

And wtf, what kind of "angel" abandons a 16-year-old on the side of the road? Obviously she doesn't want to stay with Cas or whatever, but not even going to try to give her money, nothing?

 

She'd been on her own like a day and made friends with people who were literally trying to be ax murderers -- this girl is not a good judge of character. She's probably going to be murdered by the next dumbass who comes by. That friend she made was right, she's sweet but sweet isn't really that great of a thing to be. She didn't even ask for anything from Cas. Why isn't Claire even trying to look out for herself, she should know she doesn't have the luxury of letting opportunities like that go by!

 

Talk about stupid, leaving Dean alone with Metratron.  Although I would be fine if he left the show.  Not exactly interesting and I have to admit I didn't even care that Dean was torturing him.  Was I really suppose to?

 

I was hoping so hard that he would kill him. Metatron is NEVER useful, I don't know what the point of bringing him in even possibly was. That First Blade thing was total bullshit, and I swear, he didn't even have anything to tell.

 

The torture irritated me because 1. stop with the torture, show. 2. just kill the dude! I don't even want to see him suffer, I'm just so sick of his completely pointless self. Though knowing this show, if Dean had killed him, he'd probably come back as a spirit and haunt the bunker.

 

Rowena manipulating Crowley is one of the only reasons I'm even interested in Crowley at the moment. The rest is "moose" and "squirrel" and lolgay jokes and him reluctantly ruling Hell. I like seeing her rattle him. I thought they actually did a good job of showing how she managed to wear him down - controlling his dreams and then making his dreams a reality. It was a little ridiculous (and her theatrics test my patience), but I like seeing him rattled and seeing her isolate him.

 

In theory, the dream thing was cool. In theory, I even like that Crowley randomly has this mother hanging around now. But in practice, all those scenes made me feel like I was watching a kids' show. (Not in a good way).

[SueB]

 

Talk about stupid, leaving Dean alone with Metratron.

They left Dean alone in the kitchen.  Dean was the one who snuck back into the dungeon. 

 

I was glad Dean got a little payback on Metatron.  I think killing the scribe of God MIGHT actually be a bad idea for Dean. But a little torture?  Yeah, that's okay. 

[rue721]

I was glad Dean got a little payback on Metatron.  I think killing the scribe of God MIGHT actually be a bad idea for Dean. But a little torture?  Yeah, that's okay. 

 

Why? God clearly doesn't give a shit. The only person who definitely would have an issue is Cas, because the other angels are keeping Metatron on ice for some reason. And Cas has certainly screwed the angels over much worse and been forgiven, so I doubt it would be a ~thing~ even for him.

 

Metatron was just stalling stalling stalling. "Uhhhhhhhh first you need the ummmmm First Blade! I'll tell you the rest...later! After you do lots of stuff for me!" Whatever, dude did not know a damn thing. Dean should have just stabbed him in the heart. Turnabout's fair play blah blah.

 

ETA:

I was especially annoyed that he tried to guilt trip Dean about Kevin dying. Yeah, Dean has a reason to feel guilty about that. But it's a bit rich for Metatron, who literally ordered Kevin's death, to get all j'accuse! about it.

Edited January 21, 2015 by rue721

[Pete Martell]

If this is it, then what was the point of Claire? Just to create a damsel in distress so that when Dean murdered all her human captors, it wouldn't seem too repulsive?

 

And wtf, what kind of "angel" abandons a 16-year-old on the side of the road? Obviously she doesn't want to stay with Cas or whatever, but not even going to try to give her money, nothing?

 

She'd been on her own like a day and made friends with people who were literally trying to be ax murderers -- this girl is not a good judge of character. She's probably going to be murdered by the next dumbass who comes by. That friend she made was right, she's sweet but sweet isn't really that great of a thing to be. She didn't even ask for anything from Cas. Why isn't Claire even trying to look out for herself, she should know she doesn't have the luxury of letting opportunities like that go by!

 

I think the point of Claire was mostly another variation on the theme of facing your past mistakes. Cas did, just as Dean did with Cole (I realize Cole wasn't a "mistake" from Dean - I'm just making a general comparison). I think the other point was to show us that she was in a terrible position through her own bad choices, but broke herself out of it, which means Dean can too (which is why I never really got upset over all the "born killer" stuff - we saw in this episodes that that isn't the case).

 

I agree that just having her go off on her own was silly, but I think Cas probably knew she needed a clean start, and now she's wiser. I do wish he'd given her some cash, but maybe Dean did in their offcamera encounter.

In theory, the dream thing was cool. In theory, I even like that Crowley randomly has this mother hanging around now. But in practice, all those scenes made me feel like I was watching a kids' show. (Not in a good way).

 

The scenes were amateurish, but I liked the idea enough to put up with it. I did really like the scene where she spied on Crowley. I thought that was cool.

 

The dream scene itself and the slo-mo stabs did make me laugh a little though.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Pete Martell

[catrox14]

Also, The Road So Far with the "The Long Black Road" was one of the absolute best "Road So Far"s the show has ever done.

[SueB]

Why? God clearly doesn't give a shit.

I meant that if killing a Knight of Hell triggered Dean's yakking up, then killing the Scribe of God might also have an adverse reaction. Like the bigger the fish, the bigger the impact.

[Pete Martell]

One of the weird parts of this episode for me was that I thought the way scenes were filmed and lit was a step up, but the performances were...a step back.

 

Misha and Jared both seemed somewhat off to me. I thought Jensen did a decent job (but then they had more of the expository dialogue), but the dynamic between the three of them just didn't seem right to me. Cas was even quirkier, Sam even more dour. 

 

The lighting in the shot when Dean first walked in to confront Metatron was absolutely perfect. He was handsome, commanding, he was "our" Dean, yet he also had shadows around him, unsettling me and reminding me he's still not quite the Dean we know. 

 

The playground shots, Hell, etc. also looked good, and polished. 

 

There were also multiple full body shots of Dean walking away or Dean seen from the back, which...A+.

 

This was such a disjointed episode that I can't say I loved it or hated it (to be honest I'd expect to hate or be bored by it more than I turned out to be), but the actors seemed underrehearsed. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by Pete Martell

[catrox14]

Who directed this episode? I missed it in the credits

[AwesomO4000]

They left Dean alone in the kitchen.  Dean was the one who snuck back into the dungeon. 

 

I was glad Dean got a little payback on Metatron.  I think killing the scribe of God MIGHT actually be a bad idea for Dean. But a little torture?  Yeah, that's okay. 

Why? God clearly doesn't give a shit. The only person who definitely would have an issue is Cas, because the other angels are keeping Metatron on ice for some reason. And Cas has certainly screwed the angels over much worse and been forgiven, so I doubt it would be a ~thing~ even for him.

 

I think it would be bad for Dean in terms of the mark. I'm not positive, but it seems like the bigger "fish" he kills, the more the mark "wakes up" and the more it wants. When Dean first got the mark things weren't really bad at first. It seemed to be killing Abbadon that really woke it up and caused Dean the most trouble. I suspect that if he killed someone like Metatron, that would give a zing to the mark that might be bad for Dean... and I think likely Sam knows that - I'll have to rewatch ... in addition to the problems it might cause Castiel. Metatron apparently does know that even if he doesn't know much of anything useful (or if he does, he has zero inclination to share and is more interested in what he can get from it). But I think Cas and Sam too - or at least Sam - is at least as worried about what killing Metatron would do to Dean, or maybe more so, than what it would mean to actually kill Metatron.

 

(Edited to add: or what SueB said faster and more succinctly while I was yakking away here.)

 

Because yeah, I pretty much agree that Metatron has little reason to be helpful and even less desire to do so. If he even knows anything helpful at all. I'm more thinking that he knows just enough to be dangerous and/or is actually cooking up something bad - like he did with Castiel - who should not be trusting Metatron at all here: hello Cas, remember that supposed "trial" to close the gates of heaven (or whatever that was supposed to do) that was actually a spell that caused all the angels to fall? How do you guys know Metatron isn't cooking up something similar? In fact if I was the betting type, I'd put money on that possibility.

 

ETA:

I was especially annoyed that he tried to guilt trip Dean about Kevin dying. Yeah, Dean has a reason to feel guilty about that. But it's a bit rich for Metatron, who literally ordered Kevin's death, to get all j'accuse! about it.

 

Unfortunately all the bad guys seem to know to hit Dean in his guilty conscience, so that's what they do. One of these times, I think I'd like to hear Dean just say something like "yeah, and so?" or "and you know what, I don't care"  just for something different.

Edited January 21, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[Pete Martell]

Oh, and the random couple who just randomly liked to cause trouble and get some killing on were possibly the most underwritten, vaguest characters I can remember on the show. I pity the actors (the guy looked so familiar to me). I think Buckner and Ross-Lemming must have watched a lot of bad old horror movies that used to rerun late at night on USA. 

Who directed this episode? I missed it in the credits

 

John Badham.

[catrox14]

Dean carries himself like Demon!Dean going into a fight. And it's great. It's also different than how Purgatory!Dean carried himself.

[cassandle]

Crowley. I mean I loved the brief moment we got with him back with Sam and Dean. And I kinda like how familiar Crowley and Dean are on the phone.  But...Rowena?  How could Crowley possibly fall for this??  She's nothing but Bad News.  Cool spell to follow him, however.  I need Crowley to handle Rowena.

This bugged me too.  She was so obviously playing him and it makes no sense that he's not smart enough to figure that out.  Or realize that his witch mother might just do some spell work to induce visions/nightmares.  If I lived with a mother like that I'd be checking every crevice for hex bags on a regular basis. 

 

I was actively rooting for Dean to torture every fucking cell of that POS Marvatron. I wanted him to torment him forever and ever.

 

Me too.  The only reason I didn't want Dean to kill him was because then the torture would end.  Although I could have done without all the punching.  Poor Dean was probably hurting his hand--he should have used the blade the whole time.

 

Oh, I definitely don't want them to put Dean on the back burner and I'm totally cool with Sam being in a supportive role.  I just feel like he hasn't had much interesting to do this season and I was sad to not even see him at all at the end of the episode.  I was hoping he would go with Dean when he went to see Claire.

 

I was happy that Sam was being the voice of reason when they were discussing Cain.  It's been bothering me all season that if Cain could suppress the Mark then Dean should be able to too.  I wish they had brought up actively trying to find Cain, but any mention of the actual guy (as opposed to just discussing the Mark) was nice to hear.

 

 

I've seriously missed this show--I didn't realize how much until tonight.  It was fun and funny and scary….  JA's acting was fantastic--that he could be so terrifying and completely sympathetic at the same time was great.  Love that guy.  

 

There were some great moments from Cas proving, to me at least, that he's better utilized with the boys than on his own.  The line, "One extremely messed up human to another," killed me.  

 

I probably wasn't supposed to find the thug couple as funny as I did but it was pretty hilarious they thought they could beat Dean with a baseball bat and an axe.  They had a better chance of hurting him by smashing the Impala with the bat (although, he really would have killed them if they had).

 

The only things I didn't really like were Claire--like everyone else it looks like.  She just bugs--so whiny and dumb.  Two random people in a bar invite you back to their camper in the woods?  That's when you run.  And I can do without Rowena.  I'm glad they gave Mark Sheppard something else to do but I wish it wasn't this.  I'm hoping Dean kills Rowena with the First Blade.

[catrox14]

Thanks for the update on the director. That explains why a mediocre script was made to look better. I will say that for a Nepotism Duo script there were some pretty good one liners and my head!canon is that Ben Edlund has been lurking in the hall of SPN and consulting.

[rue721]

I think it would be bad for Dean in terms of the mark. I'm not positive, but it seems like the bigger "fish" he kills, the more the mark "wakes up" and the more it wants. When Dean first got the mark things weren't really bad at first. It seemed to be killing Abbadon that really woke it up and caused Dean the most trouble. I suspect that if he killed someone like Metatron, that would give a zing to the mark that might be bad for Dean...

 

You and SueB are probably right. What about if they killed him in some elaborate Rube Goldberg device, though? Or at least positioned the angel blade on the floor and then WHOOPS pushed Metatron onto it, or something. Hey, worth giving it a shot!

 

If Sam had been able to keep it together, Dean could have opened the door and let Sam sneak in and do the deed, but he started flipping out with the kicking-the-door thing. I kind of wish that Cas just rolled his eyes, stabbed Metatron, and then when the angels got all huffy about it, just sort of was like, "and what?" because obviously they're not going to do anything.

 

Anyway, why I'm not cutting the show a whole lot of slack is that the Metatron thing just seemed like such a big stall. Oops, needed to fill an episode with ~something~ so I guess might as well throw Metatron into the devil's trap. Somehow. And interrogate him to get information he maybe knows. Though he might not know anything. Another reason why is probably that I need to eat a sandwich, it's late and I'm hungry. But OK, I'll stop being a grump!

 

Because yeah, I pretty much agree that Metatron has little reason to be helpful and even less desire to do so. If he even knows anything helpful at all. I'm more thinking that he knows just enough to be dangerous and/or is actually cooking up something bad

 

The thing that makes me not really worried about Metatron is that he's an idiot. Granted, Cas is an even bigger idiot sometimes, what with that "sure, I'll commit a hate crime and kill this person because she's half angel! that sounds legitimate!" Are we even supposed to be worried about him?

 

Anyway, this is always an issue with the Winchesters' strategy, though -- they never bribe. Why not offer Metatron the moon if he helps them? And just not give it to him afterward, obviously. I guess they'd have to offer him something believable and that would require Dean not having the MoC in order for him to get, but I'm sure they could think of something.

 

Actually, that reminds me -- why was Crowley helping them? He's the one who tried to get Dean the MoC in the first place so that he could act as his attack dog against Abaddon, so you'd think he'd still want Dean around, right? I mean, you don't just give your guard dog away.

 

Oh jeez, is Dean going to end up going up against Rowena? Bwhahahaha. I don't know why I think that's funny, but the idea just cracks me up, I guess because I can just see Crowley's poor crestfallen face already. And it also kind of makes me laugh because Abaddon really did look and even sort of act so much like Rowena anyway.

 

Hey, with the discussion about someone needing to act like a "dad" and do what's best for an impaired loved one even if that loved one is railing against it -- maybe that's something that Dean could do for Crowley :P. Save him from Rowena, I mean. In a strange way, I think that could fit, because imo Crowley does like playing the mischievous kid to Dean's grumpy sternness. Weird though that is.

 

Unfortunately all the bad guys seem to know to hit Dean in his guilty conscience, so that's what they do. One of these times, I think I'd like to hear Dean just say something like "yeah, and so?" or "and you know what, I don't care"  just for something different.

 

Yeah, if he were such a sociopath like Metatron was trying to imply, the guilt trip wouldn't even work -- so either Metatron doesn't actually think Dean's that far gone or he really likes doing pointless things (or both).

 

I actually thought that Metatron's manipulations of Gadreel were pretty good, what with always trying to tell him what the "righteous" thing to do was or dangling "righteousness" in front of him like a carrot. That's also sort of what he did with Cas. It maybe would have been more fun if he'd done that with Dean, too.

Edited January 21, 2015 by rue721

[Pete Martell]

The only things I didn't really like were Claire--like everyone else it looks like.  She just bugs--so whiny and dumb.  Two random people in a bar invite you back to their camper in the woods?  That's when you run.  And I can do without Rowena.  I'm glad they gave Mark Sheppard something else to do but I wish it wasn't this.  I'm hoping Dean kills Rowena with the First Blade.

 

I like Claire. I think I like the idea of her more than the execution (as I do Rowena, and a lot of the show in general...), but idiot plotting aside, it was nice to have a young character around and a different perspective, and a fairly effective parallel to Dean, and a reminder of Cas' past. 

 

I just wish they hadn't killed Kevin off. I'm just not that into the current TFW and I wish there was a way to bring in more characters to bounce off of them. I guess it will never happen.

[Pete Martell]

The thing that makes me not really worried about Metatron is that he's an idiot. Granted, Cas is an even bigger idiot sometimes, what with that "sure, I'll commit a hate crime and kill this person because she's half angel! that sounds legitimate!" Are we even supposed to be worried about him?

 

Anyway, this is always an issue with the Winchesters' strategy, though -- they never bribe. Why not offer Metatron the moon if he helps them? And just not give it to him afterward, obviously. I guess they'd have to offer him something believable and that would require Dean not having the MoC in order for him to get, but I'm sure they could think of something.

 

Actually, that reminds me -- why was Crowley helping them? He's the one who tried to get Dean the MoC in the first place so that he could act as his attack dog against Abaddon, so you'd think he'd still want Dean around, right? I mean, you don't just give your guard dog away.

 

Some part of me always worries about Metatron, because he's just pure naked ego and insecurity. He's so obviously pathetic that sometimes he slides in and sticks in the knife. 

 

I think they went and got him because they were desperate and had no other options. Yet they also don't trust him enough to give him what he wants. 

 

Crowley seemed to lost interest in Dean as a guard dog once he realized he couldn't control him. Maybe he wants the mark off now, or he's hoping Dean gets himself killed once and for all this time.

[Iguana]

This episode was a frustrating combination of crap and gold. Everything with Sam and Dean and Metatron was enjoyable but everything with Claire and Rowena sucked badly. Her manipulations are so obvious I can't believe anyone would fall for them, especially the so-called king of Hell and an experienced crossroads demon. And I really, truly, deeply, loathe the convenience of Rowena just happening to work the spell at just the right time to overhear the important piece of information about where Crowley is keeping the first blade. And I honestly, completely and utterly hate how Croley just blurted out where he's got the blade for no other reason than the plot wanted Rowena to know. There is zero reason that Crowley would ever tell the Winchesters where it was especially considering it's with his bones which, if burned, will destroy him.

And I'm afraid I must call an immediate emergency meeting of the You Know You Want Him: Learning To Lust Without Fear (YKYWH) club. Because scary, threatening Dean was also hot, melty Dean and I think I need my support group to reassure me that it's okay.

[Pete Martell]

I got the feeling Rowena had been listening to the conversation for a while.

 

I tend to wonder if some of Crowley letting her play him is because of unresolved feelings from his childhood. 

[Morrigan2575]

For the most part I enjoyed this episode, I thought the A Plot (MoC and Megatron/Dean stuff) was fantastic.  I hate Metatron but seeing just how dark and dangerous the Dean becomes with the Mark's influence is fascinating.  I want to learn more about the effects of the Mark, and I really wish they'd bring Caine back so we can find out how he managed to become a Hippie.

 

The Claire stuff was boring and pointless and since I don't care about Clarie as a character, I really don't care about her issues and spilling the beans to strangers.  I was more interested to find out if they were monsters, hunters, demons then anything else.  Imagine my surprised when they turned out to be humans.

 

I get what they're doing, they're trying to expand the cast in a sustainable way giving little plots and scenes to others in order to give Jensen/Jared lighter filming schedules.  I just wished they did better with Castiel and Crowley's stories.  I like both characters but I find the angel storyline boring and the Crowley/Rowena stuff doesn't really interest me.  I'd be more interested in Castiel/Crowley riding around in the pimp mobile listening to Queen and bickering then what we're getting.

[SueB]

And I'm afraid I must call an immediate emergency meeting of the You Know You Want Him: Learning To Lust Without Fear (YKYWH) club. Because scary, threatening Dean was also hot, melty Dean and I think I need my support group to reassure me that it's okay.

Judging by Twitter squee, I'd say membership is growing. I think the consensus is that alpha male Dean is eliciting a primal response from many in the audience.

[2Old2BAFangirl]

 

And I'm afraid I must call an immediate emergency meeting of the You Know You Want Him: Learning To Lust Without Fear (YKYWH) club. Because scary, threatening Dean was also hot, melty Dean and I think I need my support group to reassure me that it's okay.

 

I need the number to join this support group, please.  I actually made an audible noise, which scared my chihuahua, when Dean came into the room in shadow.  Holy crap, how is that perfection possible?

 

The opening scene was hilarious to me.  I thought it was Kenny Rogers standing there threatening to kill Crowley at first (I was showing my age tonight)!  I'm unimpressed with Rowena - am I supposed to believe Crowley is really that stupid?  I know she's his mother, but really? 

 

I'm agree with those who don't care for Claire.  Just ugh.  And apparently, she'll be back.

 

Think that support group will also help with wet Winchesters?  I always hate Sam's hair, I usually think it's ridiculous looking with its' Marlo Thomas flip, but wet Sam hair was hot!

[catrox14]

Judging by Twitter squee, I'd say membership is growing. I think the consensus is that alpha male Dean is eliciting a primal response from many in the audience.

Well there is a reason Dean Winchester won the Biggest Badass from 2014.

I noticed Cas touched Sam on the shoulder. That was weird to me because Cas rarely touched Dean other than beating on him and raising him from Perdition and the occasional Dean-initiated hug and in spite of always invading Dean's personal space. I am now starting to wonder.....would the show go with Sastiel as canon? They brought it up in Fan Fiction. Just a musing.

 

I need the number to join this support group, please. I actually made an audible noise, which scared my chihuahua, when Dean came into the room in shadow. Holy crap, how is that perfection possible?

group will also help with wet Winchesters? I always hate Sam's hair, I usually think it's ridiculous looking with its' Marlo Thomas flip, but wet Sam hair was hot!

And I also was struck by that shot of Dean. I thought it was a direct call back to the scene of Dean in "Do You Believe in Miracles" when he appeared out of the shadows before fighting Metatron. But this was filmed with more style and captured Dean's beauty and danger better than in 9.23.

I am just constantly amazed how Jensen can still be Dean but not exactly in every iteration we've seen. I mean it seems to me this post-demon!MoC!Dean is not quite the same as pre-demon-MoC!Dean and it's not the same as regular!Dean either. It seems to me there is something different. A hint of demon!Dean especially when Dean is in stabby, badass mode now. I sure hope it's a specific intentional choice by Jensen to inform that even if Dean is no longer an official demon surely it changed Dean in some significant way.

I thought Sam looked really good with that wet slicked back hair.

Edited January 21, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

rue721, on 20 Jan 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

Actually, that reminds me -- why was Crowley helping them? He's the one who tried to get Dean the MoC in the first place so that he could act as his attack dog against Abaddon, so you'd think he'd still want Dean around, right? I mean, you don't just give your guard dog away.

 

You do if it bites you and refuses to attack when told.

 

What about if they killed him in some elaborate Rube Goldberg device, though? Or at least positioned the angel blade on the floor and then WHOOPS pushed Metatron onto it, or something. Hey, worth giving it a shot! 

 

I suggested a leprechaun some time back...your ideas would be simpler, though. ;)

[catrox14]

As for them not mentioning Cain before now I can only fanwank that Dean seems to have suffered some memory loss about Cain or Dean remembers that Cain said "When I call you and I WILL call, you come find me and use the Blade on me". I figured Cain went into hiding again and can't be found. Although it would be nice if Dean at least mentioned that little conversation....

My other fanwank is that TPTB wanted to keep Cain's reappearance a surprise but then they released synopis saying he's coming back so why not have Dean remember about what Cain said and say it to Sam.

Edited January 21, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

You do if it bites you and refuses to attack when told.

 

OK that was mostly just a joke but now that I've come up with a way to thoroughly torture the metaphor:  Up until Crowley called Sam to come and get him, he'd been training Dean basically how I've seen a lot of people "train" (aka, horrific abuse -- but that's a digression, I guess) fighting dogs.

 

First, you treat the dog badly, but you *personally* treat it the least badly. Like, the dog is starving -- but what little food it does get comes from you personally. Etc. I think this is what Crowley was doing when he insinuated himself with Dean after that falling out between Dean and Sam over the Gadreel possession, and that insinuation continued on until Metatron killed Dean. Next, you get the dog strong and primed to fight. Make it carry weights, put it on a choke chain, beat it, egg it on when it gets aggressive, etc. I think that was when Crowley and demon!Dean were drinking buddies. Then, I hear that a lot of people don't do this but the men who I grew up around did -- you train it to go completely into fight mode when presented with a specific target (presenting that target will eventually signal the beginning of the fight, because the dogs will fight over it). That's when Crowley told demon!Dean to go after Lester's wife, I think. Finally, once the dog is basically out of its mind from deprivation and abuse, and is trained to go wild at the sight of this target, you can turn it on another dog. I would *think* that that would mean turning demon!Dean on other demons. I actually don't know why Crowley dropped the whole idea right when he was on the precipice of that. Demon!Dean killed the "wrong" human and was difficult to control, but on the other hand, a lot of aggression like that is exactly why he'd have had potential as someone for Crowley to turn on people.

 

Overall, I have trouble understanding Cas/Dean's relationship, and Crowley/Dean's relationship. Neither really make any sense to me, I'm perpetually confused.

 

I tend to wonder if some of Crowley letting her play him is because of unresolved feelings from his childhood. 

 

I think we're supposed to be assuming that's the case right now. It seems pretty straightforward:  Crowley wanted love, and figures this is probably the best he can get.

 

How Mark Sheppard is playing it, I actually do think that Crowley loves Rowena. That's the saving grace of the storyline right now, to me. If Rowena were cleverer, that would make the SL actually kind of fun, but so far, her machinations haven't been any fun. I don't really mind if they're transparent, but I do wish they were more ingenious.

 

The reason I don't mind if her machinations are completely transparent, though, is that I don't think that they're meant to actually be *tricking* Crowley, I think that he's meant to just be willing to play along with them because as long as she's getting her way, she won't leave. But that theory means that he's either got to be playing even more of a long game with her and is going to end up tricking her and is drawing her into his own trap (which I suspect is happening, it seemed like that random recently "promoted" secretary of his was a set up, but Idk) *or* he actually loves her. Or both, I guess those aren't mutually exclusive.

 

The idea of the Rowena storyline is actually fine, imo. The problem for me is that in practice, something about Rowena always comes off as "amateur hour." I honestly don't know what it is exactly.

[DittyDotDot]

Overall, I have trouble understanding Cas/Dean's relationship, and Crowley/Dean's relationship. Neither really make any sense to me, I'm perpetually confused.

 

As I have not yet seen this episode, I'm taking this to All Episodes thread...

[cassandle]

And I'm afraid I must call an immediate emergency meeting of the You Know You Want Him: Learning To Lust Without Fear (YKYWH) club. Because scary, threatening Dean was also hot, melty Dean and I think I need my support group to reassure me that it's okay.

 

I need the number to join this support group, please.  I actually made an audible noise, which scared my chihuahua, when Dean came into the room in shadow.  Holy crap, how is that perfection possible?

 

Seriously.  One of their convention is coming to my city and I impulsively bought a ticket to have my picture taken with JA.  Now the closer that date comes the more I'm regretting it because I turn into squeeing fangirl when he's on the TV, how will I handle it in person?  I just keep reminding myself JA is not the same person as Dean.

 

I am just constantly amazed how Jensen can still be Dean but not exactly in every iteration we've seen. I mean it seems to me this post-demon!MoC!Dean is not quite the same as pre-demon-MoC!Dean and it's not the same as regular!Dean either. It seems to me there is something different. A hint of demon!Dean especially when Dean is in stabby, badass mode now. I sure hope it's a specific intentional choice by Jensen to inform that even if Dean is no longer an official demon surely it changed Dean in some significant way.

 

When (if) this show ever ends I hope JA gets a new role on a show that actually gets recognition.  That boy deserves a truckload of awards.

 

Did anyone else think it was dumb for Crowley to admit where his bones are buried to the two guys he hid them from in the first place, not to mention his evil mother?  Why would he do that?  And why didn't Rowena take the bones?  That made no sense to me.

[catrox14]

Oh I rant ALL the time. Almost literally ALL the time about how Jensen is so criminally underrated by the awards people etc. I am probably more irrationally annoyed about it than I should be because I have just in the past 1 plus years discovered his exceptional talent.  And I am just in awe of what he does. I think he is the most realistic actor I have ever seen. I feel like Dean Winchester, aside from being a demon and a vampire, could be a real person there is so much authenticity to Dean.

[Primetimer]

The only thing worse than a Dean Winchester with the Mark of Cain is a Dean Winchester feeling guilty about it.

Read the story

[2Old2BAFangirl]

 

Seriously.  One of their convention is coming to my city and I impulsively bought a ticket to have my picture taken with JA.  Now the closer that date comes the more I'm regretting it because I turn into squeeing fangirl when he's on the TV, how will I handle it in person?  I just keep reminding myself JA is not the same person as Dean.

 

 

Don't regret it!!  It will be awesome!!

I don't know about JA specifically, but I went to a con for a different show at the end of 2013 and got a photo op with a certain blue-eyed vampire.  As I was waiting in line and looking at him, I quickly de-aged to about 14 years old.  By the time it was my turn, I was weepy mess!  My vamp was wonderful, gave me the biggest hug ever for my photo op, then told me to smile when it was done.  I think they're used to fangirling and they're super sweet about it - so get your picture!! :)

BTW, I'm way, way, way too old to be crying like a teenager meeting my teen idol! LOL

[rue721]

Did anyone else think it was dumb for Crowley to admit where his bones are buried to the two guys he hid them from in the first place, not to mention his evil mother?  Why would he do that?  And why didn't Rowena take the bones?  That made no sense to me.

 

I think Rowena didn't take the bones because she's still riding Crowley's coattails. As things are, if he loses power, she loses power. She's not going to get rid of him until she properly positions herself. Imo if she were smart, she never would get rid of him, she'd just "rule" through him so that if things were to go bad, he could be her patsy -- but she actually doesn't seem very smart, so I doubt she'll do that, I think she's likely to attack him directly when she thinks she's powerful enough to do so/he's not of anymore use to her.

 

The bones might be a plant on Crowley's part. I really do think he might be constructing some kind of trap for Rowena. Remember that test of whether Dean would "protect" Crowley from the "hunter" in that bar, right after Sam told Dean to take a hike because of Gadreel? I think the bones and Blade might have been a way of testing Rowena's loyalty.

 

I've heard that the old fashioned way to spot a leak is to give different people (usually different?) information, and see "whose" information works it way back around to you or who acts on that information. I think that Crowley might have been doing that by dropping all that info about the Blade on the phone, to the Winchesters at their meeting, etc.

 

When Crowley met up with the Winchesters, Dean was asking him why he was so quiet -- I think maybe Crowley was quiet because he was considering whether to go ahead with testing Rowena, because he knew she was likely to fail and he wasn't sure he wanted to know that yet. In his perfect world, I think he really would like things to work out with her, though obviously they won't/can't.

 

I guess that's similar to Sam being in sort of denial about the Mark -- his talk about maybe Dean being able to live with it and all. Maybe Sam trying to "not know" that Dean can't just handle the Mark is similar to Crowley trying to "not know" that Rowena can't just be minimally decent to him.

 

I will say that something I find fun about the Rowena storyline is that I totally get now why Crowley is so weird about keeping his word, lol.

[catrox14]

I would so fangirl and probably pass out if I met Jensen.  Sure I think he is one of the most beautiful men in the world but more than that I admire him for his talent and that alone would render me mute, which if you ask anyone that knows me is HIGHLY UNLIKELY.  So, you go cassandle, You go and fangirl to your little hearts content and then come back and tell us all about so we can be envious and in awe. see also: Say Hi and pat him on the butt for me :)

[Aeryn13]

 

I actually don't know why Crowley dropped the whole idea right when he was on the precipice of that.

 

I think because it never was remotely what Crowley was doing. Sure, in his head maybe but it had no bearing what happened in reality. He didn`t "train" Dean for a single second during the demon-dom, Dean was never his dog and Crowley didn`t have any control. Demon!Dean wanted one thing and one thing only: hedonism. And Crowley promised that for a time. Demon!Dean thought that offer was genuine so he took him up on it. Once it became clear that Crowley was on a different train, Demon!Dean went "adios". He only even took the Lester-job out of what appeared to be bemused curiosity.  

 

Just because someone may think they control Dean or have him under their thumb doesn`t make their deluded dreams factual. I think that is giving Dean`s character far too less credit and making him look ultra-pathetic. IMO Crowley ever had a Dean-shaped attack dog. If he thought he did? His problem. He was the pathetic one. If I would make animal-analogies to the pairing (and I kinda don`t like that for the most part because it can never not sound offensive when applied to people), Dean was a cat. You know, the being that has an "owner" insofar that there is a poor schmuck believing themselves to be a cat owner. Whereas the cat itself can be agreeable within certain parameters but mostly just seems to think "ah, there you are, servant who opens my food cans".

 

In terms of this episode, I think Crowley was actually being played. Hey, everything gets dumbed down for plot reasons and the nepotism duo are the worst writers on the show. They can barely string up any cohesive plot or dialogue so no wonder Crowley suffered for it here.

 

As did Claire. How pointless a story and how naive for basically a street kid. It`s a freaking wonder Randy didn`t pimp her out ages ago as little street smarts as she showed. 

 

Dark!Dean was hot like burning. His scene with Metatron was pretty good. The character is annoying but Curtis Armstrong gives it his all.

 

Cas is so inconsistent in terms of when Dean seems to be his friend or not these days. This episode, I`d say we were in a clear "not"-phase.

 

While I appreciated the "the strength in you"-sentiment and would like to happen it much more often with Dean because usually he only gets the opposite and Sam gets the "you are so awesomely awesome" speeches, I find it kinda hilarious that noone acknowledges the gravity of the situation. I mean, not really. It basically boils down to "you just have to control it". O-kay. There is exactly one precedent for that and he managed control after MILLENIA. So Dean is supposed to pull off a feat accomplished after several thousand years of getting it out of your system while simultaneously gaining strength/experience/wisdom after a few weeks/months? Like, not even in a hundred years or a dozen years or so but right now? I get why they want that from him but geeze Luise. 

[Demented Daisy]

I'm starting to like Rowena, so she'll be dead by the end of the season.

 

That was Claire's big revenge scheme?  Pathetic.

 

Scary Dean is not hot.  He makes me sad.  He reminded me of Dean from On the Head of a Pin, which is an episode I loathe.  Give me Goofy Dean or Smart Dean any day, not this Alpha Male moron threatening anyone and everyone in his vicinity.

 

I don't know why the writers of this show keep going back to torture, because it never works.  (Unless, of course, you literally put a pin in an angel's brain.  Maybe they should have called Crowley and used his torture with Samandriel on Marvatron.)

[catrox14]

I was kind of bugged about Sam's pep talk to Dean. How much more effective would it have been for Sam to bring up his own past issues with demon blood and how he understands better than anyone and that is why he will help Dean now and why he's encouraging Dean to find some strength within himself and to remind Dean that he is not here to judge Dean but love him and help him deal with this.  And maybe even sneak in a little bit of an apology for not really paying better attention the first 3 months he had it. And I feel like poor Jared just can't quite get to that particular level of empathy which is weird because he's so empathetic with strangers...and even in his comments about Randy...which I can't EVEN with Cas and Sam re their defense of that disgusting person.

 

just sayin that was quite the missed thing to remind the audience that they know that we know these boys past and that should inform how Dean and Sam deal with this NOW. 

[catrox14]

It also really bugged me that Sam is the one telling Dean about Cain's Mark. When did Sam learn Cain still had it?  Did Dean even KNOW that Cain still had it? To me that's a big piece of the pie that should have come from Dean not Sam.  Bleh. 

[cassandle]

Don't regret it!!  It will be awesome!!

I don't know about JA specifically, but I went to a con for a different show at the end of 2013 and got a photo op with a certain blue-eyed vampire.  As I was waiting in line and looking at him, I quickly de-aged to about 14 years old.  By the time it was my turn, I was weepy mess!  My vamp was wonderful, gave me the biggest hug ever for my photo op, then told me to smile when it was done.  I think they're used to fangirling and they're super sweet about it - so get your picture!! :)

BTW, I'm way, way, way too old to be crying like a teenager meeting my teen idol! LOL

 

I would so fangirl and probably pass out if I met Jensen.  Sure I think he is one of the most beautiful men in the world but more than that I admire him for his talent and that alone would render me mute, which if you ask anyone that knows me is HIGHLY UNLIKELY.  So, you go cassandle, You go and fangirl to your little hearts content and then come back and tell us all about so we can be envious and in awe. see also: Say Hi and pat him on the butt for me :)

 

I resisted buying the ticket for a while until my coworker asked me if I was going.  I played like I was too cool for that until he told me his wife was going specifically to get her photo taken with JA.  I figured if a respectable forty-something wife and mother could do it a thirty-something wouldn't look too silly.  Watching the show I constantly want to give Dean hugs so if I can manage a hug from JA it'll be almost as good :)

 

The bones might be a plant on Crowley's part. I really do think he might be constructing some kind of trap for Rowena. Remember that test of whether Dean would "protect" Crowley from the "hunter" in that bar, right after Sam told Dean to take a hike because of Gadreel? I think the bones and Blade might have been a way of testing Rowena's loyalty.

 

I hope so.  Otherwise it makes Crowley out to be foolish.  I liked him in the beginning when he was one step ahead--like when he knew the boys would be coming for the Colt before they even showed up.  Crossroads Crowley seemed more devious than King of Hell Crowley.

 

It also really bugged me that Sam is the one telling Dean about Cain's Mark. When did Sam learn Cain still had it?  Did Dean even KNOW that Cain still had it? To me that's a big piece of the pie that should have come from Dean not Sam.  Bleh. 

 

I thought I'd mis-remembered this because I've thought this whole time that Cain transferred the Mark thereby getting rid of it.  So last night I wasn't sure if I missed some information somewhere along the line or if the writers were fudging things saying he still had it.

Edited January 21, 2015 by cassandle

[catrox14]

I don't think it was ever made clear that transfer meant giving it to Dean and Dean is now the sole owner or if it was just spawned from Cain.  I remember in First Born,that Cain's arm glowed red and his veins were red and it snaked it's way from Cain's arm onto Dean's arm making Dean's veins glow red and leaving the MoC glowing. Cain still had the power to kill all the demons in his house and the house glowed red when he did it which I don't think ever happens when other demons killed.  But then when Dean killed a demon as demon Dean there was no red glow. 

 

I'm more bugged about why such an important piece of information about Cain having the Mark comes from Sam who didn't know squat about the Mark, didn't talk to Dean about it hardly at all that we saw onscreen other than to tell Dean he thought the Mark was doing something to him and who said there was nothing in the Lore about it at all......even though Sam was googling Cain and Abel last season for like 1 second of screen time......

 

Gods it's stuff like this that drives me batty about these writers.   'Do they even watch the show!!!??'- Guy Fleegman