S10.E11: The Forever People

[thewhiteowl]

 

When frozen bodies are found in Nevada floating in water, the BAU’s investigation leads them to suspect that the victims were part of a cult that could be behind the deaths. Also, JJ confronts old demons from her abduction and torture last year.

 

 

 

[zannej]

I'll wait for more people to watch, but I'm calling this one riding the FAILboat.

[ForeverAlone]

There was WAY too much JJ in this, and it felt just a ploy to show off AJ's "acting" skills and JJ's angst and strength. I mean, all of a sudden, she just experiences flashbacks and angst. Yes, I know it was the anniversary, but nothing else ever seemed to get to her. Hell, she was joking/bragging about being tortured to Kate and Morgan just a few short months ago. THEN she starts melting down on the job, even though little about this case should have triggered such a strong response. THEN she had to have that hallucinatory conversation with Askari, only to seemingly get control of herself and regain her strength in the end. There is just so much wrong about this storyline. Hotch had zero clue she was in emotional pain. He should have stepped in like he did with Reid in "Elephant's Memory", both to chew her out for going rogue and to offer his assistance to help her through. No wonder the case felt underdeveloped with some serious leaps in profiling. It was so focused on showcasing JJ. She needs some industrial strength therapy as she seemed like she was teetering on the edge of sanity. Of course, she will likely be back to super JJ next week and all will be over. Want to take bets?

 

The only good thing is the delightful Reid. Yeah, I wish gentle, compassionate Reid wasn't directed toward JJ, but I will try and block her out and focus on him. I loved smart, sassy Reid owning the team with regards to statistics. He did say once that he feels the most in control when talking about statistics and he proved it. That fist bump with Hotch was cute and I was glad to see examples of their friendship. I do like Reid and Kate. Even though she teases him about his facts, it never feels like it is with malice, but gentle humor. I wish their friendship was developed further.

 

I will have to rewatch the episode to get a handle on the actual case (which definitely took a backseat to JJ pain), because some stuff happened that didn't seem to make sense. But yes, JJ (even though she was melting down) seemed to make most of the key observations. This was a bad episode if you disliked JJ. Let's hope this is it for the rest of the season, but I am not betting on it.

[normasm]

I will hold on to the beautiful golden moments of Reid, especially Reid on the plane and distracted with Hotch. The man is wonderful.

I hope this is the last JJ ep, ever.

[SSAHotchner]

Even if I could buy that out of the blue JJ is suddenly so overcome with PTSD that she's hallucinating and on the verge of a breakdown, when we haven't seen an inkling of this before (heck, she even went out drinking with the team after her kidnapping and torture instead of getting proper medical treatment and spending time with her husband and child), I certainly couldn't buy that with all of that going on she was all over the case. Again it was as if nobody else on the team was necessary to solve this case.  And, again, we are to believe that after all the stuff that has happened to her and teammates in the field, she goes off all alone to hunt the unsub? To me this was nothing more than an effort to bombard us with JJ. JJ is emotionally fragile, yet strong enough to handle every aspect of the case without input or assistance from anyone else on the team. What are they thinking? Do they really think this is going to endear this character to an audience that is already sick of the amount of screen time she gets and the way she has taken over the BAU and left Hotch as a shadow instead of the team leader? I swear the only reason I am watching anymore, besides needing whatever tiny glimpse I get of Thomas Gibson weekly, is because of the friends I've made online discussing this show. I enjoyed Reid in this episode, but I'm wondering if the only reason they used him as her confidant is because they have gotten so much feedback about how little he has been used. I'm not complaining about it. We've asked for more Reid and they finally gave him something to do. It would have infuriated me had it been Morgan, but I would have been okay with her confiding in Hotch. All I can say is, if this is the last season, they're sure making it easy to not mind.

[ForeverAlone]

 Is Hotch now supposed to be so oblivious that he can't see it? I agree, do the writers think that this episode will endear us to JJ , after complaining about too much of her? Or is this supposed to be a subtle F-You to the fans who are sick of JJ dominating this show for the past two years? It will be interesting to see where this show goes from here in general, and with regards to JJ in particular.

Edited January 15, 2015 by ForeverAlone

[missmycat]

Okay does anyone else feel that this episode just might be the last straw. And that the backlash against this character is going to be too great for them to ignore. Or am I hoping for way too much.

Edited January 15, 2015 by missmycat

[ForeverAlone]

It's hard to tell, but my sinking heart is that it will be a no. Granted, I haven't seen everything (especially since it hasn't aired on the West Coast yet), but many Reid fans seemed to embrace the Reid/JJ scenes. No word on what many of them thought of all the JJ in the rest of the episode (especially that final convo), but they loved Reid. Probably because this is the most Reid we have seen in a season 10 episode. JJ fans will of course love it. But I am not sure about the rest of the fans, as pretty much the story and the rest of the cast were shunted aside for #JJpain.

[missmycat]

It's hard to tell, but my sinking heart is that it will be a no. Granted, I haven't seen everything (especially since it hasn't aired on the West Coast yet), but many Reid fans seemed to embrace the Reid/JJ scenes. No word on what many of them thought of all the JJ in the rest of the episode (especially that final convo), but they loved Reid. Probably because this is the most Reid we have seen in a season 10 episode. JJ fans will of course love it. But I am not sure about the rest of the fans, as pretty much the story and the rest of the cast were shunted aside for #JJpain.

No doubt this was probably Messer's plan all along which why it was switched from it being Hotch who she'd turn to to Reid. However I don't know how any true Reid fans cannot be totally pissed of at the way she was portrayed as being more of a genius then he is.

[zannej]

Posted this on another forum and am pasting it here out of laziness. There was discussion that JJ's hallucinations were a way to set up her exit from the show.

Even the fistbump didn't save this one for me. It was only one brief scene that was one of the few reprieves from the all JJ all the time show. They should rename it "It's All About JJ" or "Everybody Loves JJ" or something, because this is NOT criminal minds.

First off, I didn't even get exactly what was going on in the fight thing. Was the trainer telling JJ that she was fighting poorly and would get killed if she did that? Or was he upset that she was hitting him so much and showing a bruised ego? Who the hell was that guy?

Cue gratuitous view of JJ's overly thin abdomen for no apparent reason.

JJ just happens to put on one of the most obvious and useless bandages on her knuckles? Wait, didn't she have gloves on? Why would her knuckles look like that? And wouldn't that bandage rub? Why didn't anyone else notice the bandage? Couldn't she have used a much less obvious and more effective bandage? Oh wait, because then she wouldn't be able to just slide it aside to show the guy. That was so contrived.

Nobody even asks JJ what happened to her hand-- even Reid who happens to be noticing it.

Only Reid seems to be aware that its near the anniversary of JJ's kidnapping and only he seems to notice something going on. At least they gave an explanation why the rest of the team was out actually doing something and Reid was sitting around waiting for JJ to come out of the bathroom.

It was odd how Reid clinically described the "textbook" PTSD for JJ and then when she gets in the room alone she's all "Stop being YOU!" Wow.. Gee, thanks JJ. Could you be any more rude? This is where we had so much potential for an actual touching moment of the two characters sharing their suffering with Reid being able to offer some understanding. Instead, we have a total failure and waste of time.

JJ cries and cries while Reid stands there like a robot who doesn't understand human emotions. Like his toaster is broken and he doesn't know how to fix it. JJ's feelings are so strong, nobody could possibly understand what it is like to be tortured and feel your world turn upside down... oh wait! Reid went through that to the point he became a drug addict. I kept waiting for Reid's empathy to show and for Reid to share some of what he felt. But no. The writers completely forgot about that because apparently there isn't enough room for anyone else's angst and it has to be all about JJ instead.

And not only is JJ under huge stress, but she's also able to practically solve the case single-handedly. Nobody else has the same insights. Only JJ recognizes the electrical burns because of her experience. Nevermind that Reid would probably know from having seen tons of autopsy photos, read medical journals, and probably being well-versed in torture techniques. JJ is the one who has to point out to Reid that it was a defibrilator (well, Reid is the one who says it, but JJ knew before he said it).

Getting in to the medical facts, a CM/Hotch fan from another forum who is a nurse said that if the heart freezes, you can't restart it electrically.

JJ stays behind to read the autopsy report and suddenly rushes out and tells Hotch she's solved the case-- and my clock read 8:12 (maybe 8:14). I was like "really?" and was wondering just how much time they would waste on JJ's angst. At least it wasn't just the end. Btw, what JJ read in the report was the glucose levels of the blood of the victim. Fun fact: when a person dies, their blood sugar drops to zero and there is no way to get an accurate reading of what their blood sugar was prior to death (unless they were given a glucose test prior to death).

After the talk where Reid ignores the insults from JJ and is all worried that his friend is hurting but he can't help (and totally forgets his own trauma so he can't share or explain that he knows how it feels). Btw, didn't JJ pretty much say Reid had no idea what it was like? She was so full of emotion and I felt almost like MGG was phoning it in-- well, not quite phoning, but reining himself in so he wouldn't steal the scene from AJ. I mean, JJ is the only one that really matters on the show now.

The scenes with the cult people were actually rather interesting and creepy, but we barely scratched the surface. There was so much room for exploring the psychology-- why do people succumb to cults, how do the techniques work, and what are the aftereffects? So much room for exposition from Reid about how all this would have gone and worked because you know he's read up on it.

I did like that Kate got the former cult member to open up to her a little. I kept feeling like Reid would have known ways to get through and how to trigger responses or play in to some of the brainwashing a bit, but nooo, he's too busy staring at a board and having brain freeze because he's worried about JJ. So, JJ is so awesome that not only can she solve the case while making the team look like chumps, but she can still think clearly even though she's having PTSD and Reid (who is clearly much weaker than JJ) can't focus. Hotch is concerned about Reid but Reid doesn't say anything and Hotch seems to be clueless. Reid runs off and Hotch doesn't stop him to make sure that he's able to work or anything. Hotch doesn't notice anything about JJ...

JJ interviews the guy and conveniently removes her bandage and the guy conveniently has a cast so he can show that he's hiding a picture from his kid (wouldn't that thing be all gross and ruined from sweat?).

Creepy cult leader very obviously looks surprised at the photos of the dead people. Hotch stares but doesn't say much. At least Hotch got to get some insight for a change, but he's still not acting like the leader. Hell, JJ seemed to be leading on the profile delivery.

We get some more exposition (I can't remember all of the details) and then we are back with JJ and Reid going into the cult place. "Hey! You need a warrant!" and Reid says "No, we don't". Umm.. YES, you DO. and they probably could have gotten one. They could have said one of the cops called in a favor or knew a judge and that it was critical because a child was in danger. They had statements from someone inside the cult that members were not being allowed to leave of their own free will. That was actually enough right there to get a warrant and to bring some people in for unlawful detainment.

Oh, look. Garcia magically pulled up the dental records in 3 seconds. My dentist can't even pull up my dental records on her computer that fast. And lets not forget that we need a special snowflake moment for poor dainty Garcia who is feeling cold and needing to bundle up because thinking about the case makes her feel cold. *sigh* Morgan says "There's nothing strange about you".

Are JJ and Reid alone in their search? I thought there were other cops.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, girl child acts completely normal and not at all brainwashed. Ummm.. cult members would have been teaching them to not talk to outsiders and would be brainwashing them too-- maybe not with such extreme techniques. So the kid telling them what happened is too convenient and doesn't ring true.

Reid stays behind to babysit while JJ goes off on her own? What? Why? Because there are no cops to watch the kids? Oh, but they need to have JJ being all on her own so she can risk her life and save the victim.

Hotch gives JJ a direct order which she ignores. She basically tells Hotch "No." Umm. listen biyatch, you don't get to tell your boss "No." He is the boss for a reason and oh, he's the BOSS! Somehow JJ knows the temp is too low to set off a spark? Or she just bluffed and she shoots the guy. For one, she should have told him to drop the thing or she would shoot and given him a chance to surrender.

Info about the unsub is glossed over so quickly and its overwhelmed by JJ flashback scenes so it makes little to no impression. I think I heard the guy survived freezing and now somehow.. eh.. I forget. So JJ saves the day.

Reid, who still can't seem to remember that he's been tortured and has gone through PTSD and doesn't understand these strange emotions that human beings have-- because, you know, he doesn't have them himself, calls Emily to get info. He puts the files in JJ's office (is it still her office? why does she get an office? If its not her office, then who has the office now?). It would have been nicer if it turned out Reid has the office now and he said "I put the files in MY office, you can go read them". Reid deserves an office after all of these years.

Let's rewind a bit and remember that JJ disobeyed a direct order, shot a guy and could have blown herself and the victim up but she doesn't get an asschewing from Hotch. Reid got threatened with firing and he didn't even directly disobey an order. Hell, other team members did far worse than Reid and didn't get in trouble (but that was all post season 5). So, absolutely no interaction between Hotch and JJ-- oh wait, because that would have taken away from the time to have JJ cry and have flashbacks. *sigh* JJ opens a file and suddenly we're on some other program where a person is narrating the note. At first I was like "WTF? Who is the random narrator". Then it turns out its the dead guy and JJ is hallucinating and there is an argument and JJ cries some more. *ugh*

Seriously, this could have been so much better if they had cut out so much of the JJ crap, made the case more cohesive, and actually had more team contributions. This was almost like 200 part 2.

AJ's face was full of tears and she scrunched her face up a bit, but I still didn't fully buy the emotion behind it. If it had been briefer, it might have been easier to take, but the last at least 5 min were of JJ crying. Episode just dragged on and I kept checking the time and waiting for it to end.

The good news is that the episode is over and that part is out of the way. The bad news is that it looks like they are setting it up to be an arc where JJ deals with the PTSD and tries not to lose her mind. Nevermind that there are therapists she could see, other people who have suffered PTSD to talk to... Ugh...

I actually thought that some of the things that upset JJ-- feeling that if she had done things differently would have saved her baby and the woman and child-- had some ring of truth, but ultimately it still felt like the writers' attempt at emotional blackmail to make fans feel sorry for JJ instead of hating her. If they'd had Reid or even Hotch relating to JJ and having an understanding and true empathy of what it was like to be tortured and lose something and wish they had done things differently.... But no, this episode was so far up JJ's ass that we couldn't get any REAL emotion from anyone else.

The total focus on JJ in this one utterly ruined the episode. It was a total FAIL to me.

Also, as to the hallucinations thing, I'm sure they will probably just ignore it and have it be that its JJ's subconscious talking to her and that she was exhausted and really had just fallen asleep in the chair and dreamed it. Because JJ is far too strong *rollseyes* to give in.

Ugh...

I will say that I thought it was odd that people questioned Reid's genius. I mean, really? Garcia is lauded as one, but Kate is going to question him (granted it was in a funny way-- I think maybe she was just playing with him). But it just seemed very odd to me. I mean, didn't he prove in the past that he's a genius with his ability to solve things? Oh wait.. Reid is just a fact-spouting robot now. *sigh*

Personally, I think it would have been funny if later Hotch had commented to Reid that he knew Reid had read the actual number of boats from a government report (only way they would know the number is if the boats were all registered), because having him guess so accurately was BS. There would have been a margin for error. Reid could have just smiled knowingly and said he liked to keep people guessing.

Such a waste of potential...

Edited January 15, 2015 by zannej

[Watermelon]

There was enough Reid in it to keep me happy and I'm easily influenced by handsome men (Grant Show & Whoever the Dad was were great) but this was just the propping of JJ part infinity.

 

I've never wanted to hit someone as hard as I wanted to hit JJ when she said her PTSD was MORE than anybody's PTSD ever!!!!

 

Yes, the guy killed your kid, but let's remember, Not only have EVERY MEMBER OF YOUR TEAM been through ridiculously traumatic things, you're talking to a man who watched the love of his life get murdered right in front of him and that's just the most recent of his traumas.

 

How very dare you.

[zannej]

I really don't know how Reid just stood there like a dumbass when JJ insulted him by saying "Stop being YOU" and then went on to say he couldn't possibly understand her pain. A part of me wanted to see him say "Oh really? You think I don't know?" and describe some of the feelings and physical reactions. But no, he's a doormat and is portrayed as a clueless child who doesn't understand the emotions of grown-ups. I was so offended by how they wasted him in those scenes.

 

I was also offended that Hotch didn't notice a damn thing-- or didn't at least say something or chew JJ out for disobeying and order and being reckless.

 

I initially compared Reid to a robot that didn't understand human feelings, and some of that came in to play, but I think the comparison to a small child who can't understand why Mommy is crying is a better one. It just aggravates me to no end.

 

It also aggravates me that when they feel the need to focus on a particular character that every other character gets shafted (except when its Reid's focus because that almost always involves another team member to help him).

 

This episode just reinforced JJ as the superwoman because, even though she cried and whined a bit, she still was able to solve the case almost all by herself, save the day, disobey a direct order, NOT get chewed out for disobeying a direct order, treat Reid like shit, have flashbacks while driving without crashing the car, and basically showing some signs of human emotions but not letting it affect her awesomeness in terms of doing the job. *sigh*

[Old Dog]

I watched it reluctantly and it was as feared. An interesting idea for the case rushed through in unseemly haste to make room for JJ's "more than PTSD". There are so many things I could say but they have all been said by others. I liked the Hotch/Reid fistbump. Reid was swooningly handsome. But - the fact that Hotch and the others didn't see JJ was falling apart was ludicrous. I read on another forum someone claiming that you could tell they all noticed from their expressions - so why did they do nothing about it? JJ should not be in the field in that condition and Hotch would certainly have known it. For one thing, he is bound to be extra vigilant after what happened with Elle. And this was not so dissimilar - JJ ignoring orders and shooting the guy outright at the end when Morgan was merely seconds behind her. Despite all this, next week she will be her usual normal superninjamarysue self again. I almost hope so because Heaven forbid they resurrect 200 again! I see the crazy fangirls on Facebook are squeeing for all they are worth - and they are the only people Erica Messer aims at these days. I am nearly done after watching from the start - it is so sad to see something special not just slipping away but crashing off the track.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Old Dog

[walnutqueen]

I don't know which standards have dropped lower, this show's, or mine for watching this claptrap.  It must be some form of masochism, because I'm seeing red whenever I get a hint of precious Garcia and even more precious JJ.   Was there even a case this week?  'Cause I think I may have missed it.  :-)

[JMO]

The voice of dissent has arrived.  For me, this was a welcome relief in what had become a long string of disappointing episodes.  It wasn't without its issues, but I liked it.  Why?

 

Well....Reid, of course.  I thought they (Breen Frazier and MGG) hit the right notes with his portrayal throughout.  This was the Reid I've come to know and love.  He was smart, and amusingly offended when Kate challenged his facts. In other episodes, a challenge would have resulted in a confused look, and then silence.  This was more consistent with a mature Reid.  He was concerned and empathetic with JJ, but still reserved enough not to reach out to her physically.  I think, over the years, we've see him respond when someone reaches out to him, but he almost never initiates.  Not to mention, except for that one side of his hair, he looked yum.

 

Since the long-delayed PTSD was to be portrayed, the two directions that would have made sense would have been vertical (Hotch, her boss, talking with her) or horizontal (her friend).  Either would have worked.  Both would probably have been better, but I was happy with the choice they made, because of ....Reid.  Yes, I guess I'm one of those 'deluded' fans.  But I maintain that it was an entirely legitimate dramatic choice.  I think it would have been better if there had also been a scene or two with Hotch, but I thought it was legit to choose to portray only the scenes with Reid.  I don't think the absence of input/observation from the others necessarily reflected their not catching on.  If we'd had those scenes as well, there would have been no time for a case.  And I think it's very typical of Reid to want to earnestly help a friend in need.  He is much more empathetic than some of the writers portray him.

 

I wasn't put off by how much the episode focused on JJ, since it had been touted as a JJ-centric episode.  In that respect, I don't think it was any different from the Morgan/Chicago episodes, or the Rossi/Vietnam vet episodes.  I get being annoyed when a non-centric episode is unevenly distributed, but I don't understand the upset about this one.

 

Having said that, I thought AJC did well with her scenes.  I will still probably prefer the subtlety of her performance in 'Risky Business', but that wasn't what was called for here.  Two little things she did that I loved dramatically:  on exiting her first long scene with Reid, she wipes her eyes, pulls back her shoulders, mutters, 'OK' and, pitifully, puts on her profiler face.  That spoke more about who JJ is than anything else.  She did something similar in the very last scene, where she keeps saying 'no'.  I didn't have the sense that she was willing to fight.  I had the sense that she was going back to the land of denial.  If so, good dramatic choice.

 

I've noticed that a few people were upset with JJ about her outburst, and not being more considerate of Reid and his past experience.  But that simply doesn't happen with someone when they are in the throes of a mental/behavioral/emotional crisis. Maybe before, maybe later.  But not in the middle.  It's too overwhelming. When you're in the middle of it, it seems like the worst thing that's ever happened to anyone, and it's happening to you.  Reid's calling JJ out brought her crisis front and center, and put it right in between them.  She was intellectually familiar with PTSD, but not emotionally.  She didn't really 'get' it until she lived it.  And then she needed a 'new word' because it was so much stronger than what she'd realized. The one consistency in how JJ has been written since the beginning is that she's always been portrayed as someone who kept a tight rein on her emotions when in public.  How that played out was different with each different situation.  To me, her reactions in this episode rang true to that aspect of her character.  She'd reached the point where her emotions threatened to show themselves despite her efforts to keep them contained, and that frightened her as much as anything else.

 

I will need to rewatch to catch the intricacies of the case, but I liked the twist of having a serial killer show up in the cult.  And I liked the idea of the parent having gone underground.  I think that is based on several real cases.  Less gore, more depth=my kind of case.

 

On the other hand:

 

I didn't understand why Reid offered to watch the kids while JJ went after the unsub.  Did he think she was more capable than he?  And that he was a better choice with the kids?  Did he not realize how dangerous it could get, given her current mindset?  Did her forget there were other LEOs there?  I may have to explore this in writing.

 

I didn't understand why Reid chose to help JJ by giving her the information on her captor.  Didn't follow the reasoning.

 

I agree with those who thought we should have seen a Hotch/JJ scene about her not following orders.

 

Zaneej, you asked a few questions that, for once, I have answers to:

Why did we get a scene of JJ looking at her abdomen?----remembering the miscarriage, and the tasering.  The taser memory is what helped her recognize the burn mark in the photo of the corpse as Garcia was presenting the case.

How did she hurt her hand, if she was wearing gloves?  She punched her locker.

JJ's office?  Reid said he'd left the folder for her in her 'old office', where she might have some privacy in reading it.  (But I still don't understand why they haven't given that office to someone else by now!)

 

Oh, and the fist bump.  Best scene of the year, so far.

 

Disappointment is a tough land to live in, so I sympathize with those who are still there.  For me, it's been a long visit, but I'm on my way home.  Hoping not to be detoured back next week.

Edited January 15, 2015 by JustMyOpinion

[Droogie]

I just came home from night shift and in the middle of watching now. I am exactly halfway through the episode, and I can't add to the great comments everyone has already made. I can say:

1) I like Kate. I thought her teasing of Reid on the plane was done in a way that said she totally knows he is a genius and just wanted to have a little fun. I did not, however, like Morgan's response. He knows Reid is a genius -- what the heck was with his comments?

2) The fist bump. I rewound it three times. Almost missed Hotch's little "Psst" to get Reid's attention.

3) I thought Reid's reaction to JJ and his subsequent lack of concentration were pretty much in character. It wasn't a place for a hug, or facts... he just listened. And he knew there would be no reasoning with her. And he worries about people he loves -- he knows how bad it can be when someone is on the verge of going off the rails, and he knows JJ is at that point. And when she said, "Stop being you," I think she was letting down and lashing out because he was there -- similar to how Reid kept digging at Emily when he was suffering (although he did it better).

4) That said, I am so sick of JJ. Sick, sick, sick.

5) Did I mention how good Reid looked?

6) up to this point, I think Rossi has said two sentences. That's Ok -- he's certainly had more of an arc than Reid this season, but still...

Edited January 15, 2015 by Droogie

[MCatry]

Well, I just finished reading your comments regarding this episode, and I must say I am glad I just choose to sleep last night.

Best deal ever.

[Droogie]

OK, wait. WHAT was with that ending? Never mind that she was having a conversation with a chair (no worries there, right?), but please, someone tell me that was not a setup to have to deal with SomethingWorseThanPTSD!JJ for the rest of the season?!

[ForeverAlone]

Droogie, that is what many of us are wondering. Is this supposed to be the beginning of a long, downward spiral, or are we supposed to believe JJ snapped out of it when she said "no" and walked away? Only the future episodes will shed light on that.

[Chaos Theory]

I like JJ and plenty of people do and more then that I love AJ Cooke. If you cannot see how well she acted in that last scene I have nothing to say to you. I thought she was brillant. I do understand that many on this sight are not a fan of JJ which is why I stay off this board but I just wanted to say my peace.

[kdm07]

I had a feeling that this episode would go over like a lead balloon on this forum :) I'm with JustMyOpinion (and the minority I guess) when I say this episode wasn't as bad as people are making it out to be. It was a character-centric episode and, just like the other character-centric episodes, the rest of the team took a backseat bar one or two who help out. I'm neither here nor there with AJ Cook's acting but I don't think she's a terrible actress and I thought she did a reasonably good job with the material on hand in this episode.

 

I also don't find any fault with JJ asking Reid to stop being himself because we've seen the profilers, even Reid himself, react the same way when they were spiraling. I actually thought she took the right step by telling Reid everything and not shying away from it.

 

I liked the case as well because it was more psychological than violent which is what drew me to Criminal Minds all the way back in Season 1 and compared to other episodes, both the main story line and the case were actually above average.

[normasm]

I'm glad you commented Chaos Theory, there's room for all opinions here. I myself fall somewhere between zannej and JMO, especially in regard to the plausibility of JJ being aided by Reid, and Reid's reaction to her out of control behavior. I'm disappointed mightily by this episode, but that's because of an accumulation of JJ-time overwhelming a once well-balanced show. There seems to be no end in sight of JJ being pushed ahead of everyone, not just my faves, so it is frustrating for a lot of us here. Still we will definitely let you state your opinion, and you might even find those who agree with your points, if you'll state them.

Edited January 15, 2015 by normasm

[zannej]

JMO, thanks for the answers. When I asked about why we saw JJ's abdomen, I didn't mean the closeup shot where we saw the scars (oh, JJ gets scars, but Reid has "a great plastic surgeon" so he doesn't). I'm talking about the scene where she's standing profile position in front of the camera from afar and lifts up her shirt and you can see how absolutely insanely thin she is. That was the shot I didn't get. It felt a bit gratuitous.

 

I actually missed Hotch saying "Psst" to get Reid's attention. I wondered how Reid knew to look.

 

The sad thing is, this episode had potential and had some good moments that, unfortunately, were overshadowed by just too much JJ everywhere doing everything and having more insights than anyone else. It's like the team would not be able to solve the cases without her, and I find that insulting.

 

I was really hoping that maybe this one would make me like JJ more, but it just made me even more sick of her.

 

If we look at what little we had of the case, it was an interesting story and I liked the father who infiltrated the cult. I think that was worth exploring more. Here is a guy who loved his kid so much that he was risking his life (although, why the fuck didn't he call the police and tell them his ex called and said she was being held against her will and that their child was in danger?). It would have been something similar to the Minimal Loss situation though. Except these people didn't violently repel outsiders.

[Droogie]

I like JJ and plenty of people do and more then that I love AJ Cooke. If you cannot see how well she acted in that last scene I have nothing to say to you. I thought she was brillant. I do understand that many on this sight are not a fan of JJ which is why I stay off this board but I just wanted to say my peace.

Don't stay away -- all opinions are welcome here.

[TigerLynx]

I loved Reid being right about the number of boats.  On a shallow note, MGG is looking fine.

 

And that's all I've got.

[JMO]

 

I like JJ and plenty of people do and more then that I love AJ Cooke. If you cannot see how well she acted in that last scene I have nothing to say to you. I thought she was brillant. I do understand that many on this sight are not a fan of JJ which is why I stay off this board but I just wanted to say my peace.

 

Echoing what Normasm and Droogie said, Chaos Theory.  I understand why you would feel as you do.  It does get pretty (unnecessarily) vicious about JJ here, and occasionally spills over to real people, which is when I get up and walk away.  But I've never felt like I couldn't express a reasoned opinion and be heard, even when that opinion seemed unpopular (and, about JJ, my opinion is pretty much always unpopular!).  And, frankly, the discussion is not at all interesting when every opinion is the same.

 

People tend to be pretty supportive of each other on this board, if not of each character.  So stick around, figure out what exactly makes you like JJ, or anyone or anything else about the show, and let us know.  We're listening.

 

 

[zannej]

I will say that I didn't hate all of the JJ scenes. I thought there were some bits where it made sense for her to have insight, but I hated how things were executed and felt that it was poorly thought-out. I really truly want to like JJ again, but the writers are just making it so hard by cramming her down our throats. I can't fathom why she has to be in nearly every scene and why she almost always has to have the most important insights-- as if the team would not be able to solve the case without her. It reminds me of the show "The Profiler". It was terribly unbalanced and the very annoying lead character (who always took a loud breath before speaking-- which drove me batty to no end) was always figuring things out while her supporting cast looked dumb. Turns out the actress was demanding that her character always be right and wanted the rest of the characters dumbed down to make hers look good. Robert Davi talked about it and said if she'd been a man, he would have punched her (he read comments from fans and printed them out and showed the writers that the fans were intelligent and they wanted to see intelligent characters). 

 

I've noticed a trend now, and I've mentioned it before, where the female characters are being portrayed as better than the male characters in order to seem equal. Meanwhile, male characters are being dumbed down. Look at commercials where we have the smart girlfriends/wives/mothers/daughters solving things while the dumb bumbling clueless boyfriends/fathers/husbands/sons are inept morons. Because if it were done the other way around, people would scream that it was sexist. So I do wonder if the writers were afraid that if a male writer portrayed JJ as not being able to focus on her job because of her emotions (which would be completely valid because lots of people have trouble focusing and functioning when they suffer PTSD) because people would accuse him (or CBS) of sexism. There seems to be a huge push toward political correctness and meeting quotas. I think that may be another part of the problem.

 

I think I may actually be able to watch this one again and watch for nuances I might have missed, because as big of a letdown as it was, it didn't piss me off to the point of being totally unwatchable, but it did really dismay me. I had some ideas on another forum about what could have been done differently to make this episode work better.

 

I guess one peeve is that after what happened with Elle going off the rails and Reid becoming a drug addict, you'd think the team would pay more attention-- particularly Hotch-- to make sure nothing like that happens again. and realistically, Reid would NEVER have let JJ go off on her own when he knew how emotionally distraught she was. He blamed himself for not helping Elle more, so he would have stuck by JJ to make sure she was ok.

 

I also agree with people who pointed out that there was absolutely no build to this and that the PTSD thing just came out of the blue. Not even a hint or microexpression in any prior episode to indicate that JJ was anything but a superhuman with no trauma whatsoever. She joked about her scars. She went out for drinks after being tortured as if nothing happened. You'd think she would have at least wanted to go home to her husband and kid and taken a nap or something..

 

Normally, I don't like it when storylines are dropped, but I really hope they drop this one and don't have more JJ angst later on.

[william0102]

I love AJ, and I really wanted to like what they were trying to do with the episode, but I didn't. I blame the writers, just like I do with most episodes of CM. These writers just can't handle character centric episodes at all. I really only enjoyed 200 as much as I did because of AJ and Paget's appearance. I know some people think AJ isn't a great actor, but I like her acting, she's one of my favorites. But even AJ's acting couldn't save this episode for me.

So going off the last scene of JJ's breakdown, we're supposed to get that she's losing control. I can almost buy that. The problem, for me, is that JJ used to go through their cases and pick out who they helped. The rest of the team got into the killers' heads and wrote up reports, but JJ (and Hotch to some extent) had to go through all the files- she picked who needed the most help and where the team could do the most good, knowing that the cases she didn't give the team meant other victims were hurt/stalked/killed. I can't buy that something that happened 3 years ago, by a guy that was only tonight called her "partner", built up and didn't hit her when 200 happened. That was when they should have the PTSD happen. They can claim that she's finally just reached her breaking point, but I don't buy it.

Loved the plane scene, I haven't taken to Kate, but I enjoyed seeing the team interact- the fist bump :)

I wished there had been some other case in this episode because I was genuinely interested in what was going on. One thing I didn't understand- the dad wasn't ready to be a dad and he didn't hear from the mom until she was already a part of the cult, so how did the dad meet the kid at all? How would he have even been able to get to the drawing, wasn't the mom already living with the cult for a couple months according to her friend? And she only called the dad a month before. I thought they were setting it up so that it was the dad who was killing people. I actually think that might have been better, because JJ believed him, and it might have made her last hallucination/almost breakdown more believable because then she wouldn't be able to trust her instincts again, just like with the guy who tortured her. 

 

I don't understand the point of Reid getting her more information on torture guy. Was he trying to humanize him for JJ? It makes no sense and makes me think it was just so the writers could have JJ hallucinating the guy. So boxing coach says she's letting her guard down and could get herself killed, and torture guy says she didn't know that the flash wouldn't ignite the gas, that it was a gamble. Way to overplay the suicide angle writers.  Oh, wait, I forget you call it foreshadowing in your heads.

I want to feel sorry for the actors, and I'm sure they're tired of the crappy writing as much as us, but they get paid a lot and it's steady work. I'm happy to support them/the show until they can move on to better things. Especially since there's tumblr and boards like this to vent and geek out on over the show. 

So, yeah, I'm sorry to all the non-JJ fans who didn't like the eppy, but this JJ fan didn't like it either.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I do hope you watch it CoStar, not at the risk of an aneurysm, to be sure, but I want your unvarnished opinion. 

 

Well, since you asked so nicely......

 

I'm six minutes into the episode and I'm already wanting to slap Kate. "Is this guy really a genius or does he just say things with authority and we all believe him?" Woman, you just got here. Hotch asked a question, and Reid would have known the answer before you did. Also, you just got here. And a little extra "Shut up" for Morgan with his fist-bumping her over it, and then refusing to fist-bump Spencer when he's proven to be right. I know this is the Age Of Everyone Dump On Reid, but really.

 

It does amuse me to think that someone slipped in a little meta commentary about JJ when the friend of one of the victims was talking about how the woman "acted like it was a privilege just to talk to her", but I don't know if these writers realize how JJ comes off sometimes so I can't give them that much credit. I did not like that Reid was actively trying to talk to her and get her to open up about what was all of a sudden bothering her, and all she can do is respond with, "Stop being you." How is that not an insult, and yes that's a serious question. Not even Elle when she was unraveling attacked him over trying to help her. Let's even say for a second that symptoms of PTSD just appeared out of nowhere for JJ and that she's struggling. If she can't see that Spencer wanted to help, then she's got more problems that battle fatigue.

 

It took me a bit to recognize Grant Show, who was on Melrose Place, which my sister used to watch obsessively a million years ago. He was a pretty creepy cult leader, so I guess that's a point in the episode's favor.

 

Here's another serious question - why, why, why did the writing not allow for Reid to offer anything about his own experiences? I would be more willing to get past JJ's attitude towards him if he had been allowed to, for lack of a better term for it, fight back. He's been kidnapped before. Kidnapped and tortured, and he got a drug addiction out of it, but somehow he has nary a word to say in the face of her having had a similar experience. More than that, there was the business with Maeve, and he doesn't know what it is to slide into helpless grief? Please. Bad writing. Bad, bad writing.

 

And its not just Reid, but Hotch as well, who had to ask Spencer if something is going on. If nothing else, Aaron should have noticed had badly distracted Reid was, but he either doesn't see it, or he does see it and just.....decides to let it slide, I guess. The writers must have decided to flush Aaron's intuitive qualities down the toilet along with Spencer's ability to empathize. Big fail, writers.

 

I suppose I should also say that Garcia and her magical computer were less in evidence this time, but of course JJ figures it out that one of the cult members is the missing boy's father. Remember when the team members weren't allowed to work out their personal feelings while on the job? Yeah, I remember that too. And just so the JJ fans here don't think I'm unsympathetic, if it hadn't been rammed down my throat for so long that JJ is the Uber Agent who can do anything, the idea that she was damaged by her experiences would be easier to tolerate. Either she's unraveling or she isn't, and if she's hallucinating conversations with this guy, she's worse off than Elle ever could have been.

 

To end this on a slightly more positive note, I was glad for the Emily mention. It's nice to know that Spencer is at least in contact with her.

[Chaos Theory]

I am putting my response in the JJ page because it is probably where it belongs

[normasm]

I love AJ, and I really wanted to like what they were trying to do with the episode, but I didn't. I blame the writers, just like I do with most episodes of CM. These writers just can't handle character centric episodes at all. I really only enjoyed 200 as much as I did because of AJ and Paget's appearance. I know some people think AJ isn't a great actor, but I like her acting, she's one of my favorites. But even AJ's acting couldn't save this episode for me.

So going off the last scene of JJ's breakdown, we're supposed to get that she's losing control. I can almost buy that. The problem, for me, is that JJ used to go through their cases and pick out who they helped. The rest of the team got into the killers' heads and wrote up reports, but JJ (and Hotch to some extent) had to go through all the files- she picked who needed the most help and where the team could do the most good, knowing that the cases she didn't give the team meant other victims were hurt/stalked/killed. I can't buy that something that happened 3 years ago, by a guy that was only tonight called her "partner", built up and didn't hit her when 200 happened. That was when they should have the PTSD happen. They can claim that she's finally just reached her breaking point, but I don't buy it.

Loved the plane scene, I haven't taken to Kate, but I enjoyed seeing the team interact- the fist bump :)

I wished there had been some other case in this episode because I was genuinely interested in what was going on. One thing I didn't understand- the dad wasn't ready to be a dad and he didn't hear from the mom until she was already a part of the cult, so how did the dad meet the kid at all? How would he have even been able to get to the drawing, wasn't the mom already living with the cult for a couple months according to her friend? And she only called the dad a month before. I thought they were setting it up so that it was the dad who was killing people. I actually think that might have been better, because JJ believed him, and it might have made her last hallucination/almost breakdown more believable because then she wouldn't be able to trust her instincts again, just like with the guy who tortured her. 

 

I don't understand the point of Reid getting her more information on torture guy. Was he trying to humanize him for JJ? It makes no sense and makes me think it was just so the writers could have JJ hallucinating the guy. So boxing coach says she's letting her guard down and could get herself killed, and torture guy says she didn't know that the flash wouldn't ignite the gas, that it was a gamble. Way to overplay the suicide angle writers.  Oh, wait, I forget you call it foreshadowing in your heads.

I want to feel sorry for the actors, and I'm sure they're tired of the crappy writing as much as us, but they get paid a lot and it's steady work. I'm happy to support them/the show until they can move on to better things. Especially since there's tumblr and boards like this to vent and geek out on over the show. 

So, yeah, I'm sorry to all the non-JJ fans who didn't like the eppy, but this JJ fan didn't like it either.

 

I like your attitude, William, and you bring up some good points. I think at least the concept was that Reid wanted her to break Askari down like an unsub, like she has so much practice doing. I think they actually attempted to have her do that when she was arguing with his ghost and deciding "he" wouldn't take anything else away from her. It was a clumsy attempt by the writer, but I think it's a good idea. As for the supporting these well-paid folks until they move on to better things, yes, this is what i will do, too.

[JMO]

 

I also agree with people who pointed out that there was absolutely no build to this and that the PTSD thing just came out of the blue. Not even a hint or microexpression in any prior episode to indicate that JJ was anything but a superhuman with no trauma whatsoever. She joked about her scars. She went out for drinks after being tortured as if nothing happened. You'd think she would have at least wanted to go home to her husband and kid and taken a nap or something..

 

If I squint at things just right, I actually think there was build up to the PTSD, and I think JJ's blatant denial was a part of it.  Intermittently throughout last season, both when she was acting odd regarding Cruz, and after (the awful) '200', there were scenes of Reid giving her looks, taking measure of her, etc.  I'd chalked it up to acting choices by MGG until logic kicked in, and I realized that whoever edited the episodes decided to keep those throwaway few seconds, multiple times. So, there was either a plan, or they were just keeping their options open. 

 

Regarding the seeming suddenness of symptoms in yesterday's episode: people react when they react, and it often doesn't make sense, because it has very little to do with logic.  I see it a lot through work, and, often enough, it looks similar to what I saw on my TV screen last night.

 

 

I did not like that Reid was actively trying to talk to her and get her to open up about what was all of a sudden bothering her, and all she can do is respond with, "Stop being you." How is that not an insult, and yes that's a serious question.

 

CoStar, I saw that scene differently.  She was pent up, and beginning to unravel.  He penetrated her defenses, both with his analysis and by showing how much he cared, and she feared she wouldn't be able to hold it in any longer.  She needed him to stop, so she wouldn't fall apart.  It wasn't an insult.  It was a plea.

[threebluestars]

I like AJ Cook as an actress a lot, I think she does a great job with what she's given.

 

My complaint is the character of JJ is a completely different JJ than what I enjoy. I liked her as the media liaison, the one the families went to, the one that didn't want to be a profiler and liked her role. I loved that she was a bit like Garcia in that she was sort of the bright light in the dark BAU.

 

But then they just turned her into a super warrior-woman profiler and I feel like it ruined all the things that set her apart from everyone else on the team. I really, really miss the original recipe JJ. And it makes me hate this version of JJ the writers are so into.

[Danielg342]

So that sucked. A lot. I never thought I could watch television worse than that, let alone a Criminal Minds episode. That has to be the worst episode in the history of television, bar none.

 

(Well, I hear Heil Honey I'm Home! was awful...but I haven't seen it so I can't have an opinion of it, although, from what I do know about it, tasteless as it may have been and a horrible choice for a comedic series, at least HHIM didn't try to pass itself off as something serious..."The Forever People" did)

 

Seriously, show?

 

How dare you do an episode where you talk about JJ's demons finally coming to the fore only for those demons to have no effect at all on her, with her able to brush them aside with the simplest of exhortations? Seriously? Dare I say it, but if I was a PTSD sufferer, I'd be offended...greatly. This episode trivialized and seemed to underscore the idea that "it really is all in your head", a stigma the mental health community is working so hard to eradicate and then we get this dumb dreck that sets things back decades if not centuries.

 

Horrible, horrible, horrible...and quite frankly inexcusable.

 

Is it any surprise that the person who wrote this absolute piece of trash is Breen Frazier, the one who failed so miserably with the "emotional punch" of "Zugzwang"? Rip up this guy's writing contract, he has absolutely no idea how to write. Period. Because it is quite clear he is incapable of presenting any kind of skills required to display the many different layers of emotions that anyone can go through, let alone a sufferer of PTSD, and if you can't write emotions...I'm sorry, you can't write. Period.

 

Oh, and while we're writing about horrible writing choices, how can you have an episode about PTSD and not have Reid talk about his actual experiences? I don't think anyone on this team knows PTSD better than Reid, not just because he's "the expert on everything" but because he's been through it more times than anyone really should. Shouldn't JJ want to know how Reid got past Alexa Lisbon, Philip Dowd, Tobias Hankel, anthrax and Harriet the Spy? There's a wealth of information there, yet Frazier somehow forgot about all this.

 

Then there's that scene where Reid and JJ "talk about the PTSD"...and talk about the worst piece of writing I've ever seen. What was that? Something a rejected Disney sitcom wouldn't take? That was so awfully childish, awkward and cheesy that there's just no way any of that could be redeemed by quality acting, even though our dear warrior (who should really look for something else) tried his hardest. "I see a friend and all I want to do is help them out!" Aww...what do you want, Reid? A cookie? Because I think you sounded no better than a five-year-old kid. I could almost fit that bonnet around Reid's head after hearing that...couple it with those giant lollipops and a schoolboy outfit and you'd actually have a five-year-old kid.

 

Blech. Excuse me while I expectorate all that filth the show tried to jam down my throat.

 

I suppose I could give Frazier the tiniest bit of credit that he didn't want to go with a "normal" PTSD episode, but he was so far out of the box that when you put it all together, there was no box to fit any of that stuff in. Aside from it being patently offensive to PTSD sufferers, the episode had no punch, because JJ didn't experience any actual difficulties. I get it, having JJ rush to the crime scene only to get kidnapped herself is a cliche, but it's an effective one, and Frazier could have thrown another wrench in there to show how reckless she was (like, perhaps, the liquid nitrogen igniting and engulfing the house in flames, forcing the fire department to rescue her). Having JJ come out unscathed is no way to do an "alternate" storyline- conflict is central to the story, and it was conspicuously absent in this episode.

 

One thing about this whole storyline that I actually did enjoy until JJ snapped her fingers was when we saw JJ having that hallucinatory conversation with Tivon Askari...Faran Tarhir really knocked it out of the park here. He was the picture of menacing and exactly the kind of demon that should have haunted JJ in this episode. The dialogue was predictable, but for once it worked, and would have packed quite the punch if JJ didn't suddenly end things by screaming "no!" as if she's talking to a dog. That really sealed it that this episode was terrible, because you can't have that menacing a voice and that menacing an experience and have it whisked away at the metaphorical snap of the fingers. If Frazier had decided to let the episode end with JJ still scared and Askari looking at her with that smug look, it might have made the episode redeemable because we'd get the sense that JJ's troubles might actually pop up again (as they should, even though we'd know better). Instead, the trivialized ending, which ruined a great scene.

 

None of this is helped by the fact that A.J. Cook was out-acted by the doorknobs used in the cult's building...and I don't mean the weirdos, I mean the actual doorknobs. This was supposed to be Cook's shining moment where she displayed her range of emotions and how all of this was affecting her...and she looked more like Crybot2000 than an actual human being. Goodness...can an actor get any worse? OK, I'm laying on thick with the hyperboles, and I have seen worse acting performances...but Cook's tonight squarely ranks among them, and what makes it worse was that this was supposed to be her defining moment.

 

Hey A.J., next time you decide to fight for your contract, remember that these are the guys who decided you are fit for employment as an actress, because I will guarantee you that no one in their right minds would ever hire you as an actress. You're the star of the episode and you're flatter than the horizon? Seriously? Thank your lucky stars CM is on the air because if it wasn't, you wouldn't be either.

 

Oh, and perhaps I should mention a few other things that occurred in this episode...not that any of it matters because this was "the episode of JJ" and it was absolute trash:

 

-The cult: I like the idea that there was a serial killer inside the cult- a neat twist to the old cult storylines where the leader is the obvious baddie- but this was horribly executed (pun or not is up to you). How did the cult leader have no idea any of this stuff was going on? He's supposed to have complete control is he not? So how does a serial killer get to do all of this behind the cult leader's back? You'd think there should be at least a wink-and-a-nudge acknowledgement from the cult leader but we didn't even get that.
-Thought the team made a lot of leaps and had too many infodumps, leading to a case that had no actual pace. It's like in five seconds we went from drowning victims to a cult...seriously, Frazier?
-Hotch had barely anything to do, but it was good to see him detect something was bothering Reid and show genuine care for him...it was a glimpse of what Hotch used to be and a symbol of how the show became a shadow of what it once was.
-The rest of the team, not so lucky. Sure, Joe Mantegna, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Shemar Moore and even Kirsten Vangsness were all there...but did they need to be? No one provided any real insight, and aside from Morgan using his "muscle" role to save JJ and Garcia's occasional searches, would you have noticed if they weren't there? I wouldn't.
-Does lead me to one minor positive- no big role for Garcia's supercomputer, which apparently has access to some otherwise unknown network of ATM security cameras.
-"So how many boats does Lake Meade have?" This would have been funny and addressed one of my many complaints (spoken by Callahan- that the writers stick factoids in Reid's mouth out of the mistaken belief that we won't believe whatever they pull out of their posteriors otherwise) but it rang so hollow and made Reid feel like he's nothing more than a carnival toy. I get it, Reid knows things...enough already. We've had this joke nonstop for five years now...have you forgotten he was once a character? Did enjoy the fist bump with Hotch though...that was nice.
-The local police couldn't find any leads? They were ciphers...and the BAU didn't make any leaps a local police officer couldn't. Yet another case where the BAU was unnecessary.

 

Overall...wow. Well, it's an obvious F, but it's distressing. For the first time, I actually thought about leaving this show, because it's past the tipping point of ridiculousness for me, and it seems to me that, unfailingly, that no matter how many times I think it can't get any worse ("Painless", "The Pact", "Zugzwang", "Broken", "To Bear Witness", "Angels & Demons", "The Itch", "If The Shoe Fits...", "The Boys of Sudworth Place", "Amelia Porter") it does, and I'm not sure how badly I want to stick around for that. I still probably will, because I'm a trooper...but gosh, show, can you not give me something to grasp on to for a change?

Edited January 16, 2015 by Danielg342

[ForeverAlone]

So this is my second, more in depth review of this episode. I watched it again, because I knew I missed so much, particularly with regards to the actual case. Knowing what was coming allowed me to sit back and watch it and not get overwhelmed with anger or anything like I did the first go around. 

 

This episode was not just JJ centric emotionally for the side scenes but relatively team centric for the case scenes, like we saw for "If the Shoe Fits." No this was JJ centric through and through, which I wouldn't bitch about as much if she hadn't been so centric for the past couple of years. Instead I noted five key observations and actions that basically ensured that JJ single handedly solved the case. 

 

JJ Observation# 1: JJ was the only one who noticed the electrical burns on Sarah's body. Yeah yeah, we are supposed to buy that only JJ could recognize that because of what she experienced personally. But this team has encountered at least one case where there were electrical burns on the victims ("Limelight"), so it's not like foreign territory for any of them. It made it just a bit more eye rolling for me when Kate just fawned over JJ's revelation, because she was so amazed at how she figured it out. It seemed to me a throwaway line to show just how more insightful JJ is because of her personal experience. Yes, absolutely personal experience can give a person additional insight into the mind of an unsub, but let's not pretend that the rest of the team shouldn't have figured that out.

 

JJ Observation #2: JJ knew exactly what was going on, and that a cult was involved, because of the increased glucose levels combined with low protein levels. Of course there were a couple issues with that. First off, and has been noted by other posters, but blood glucose levels can't be measured after death. So we had another example of junk science writing for the sole purpose of advancing the plot. Since there was only one victim at that point, I think it was a bit premature to assume cult and not just a single unsub acting alone for his own pleasure. It was never really explained why the BAU was called in for only one victim, but I assume it was because of the weird nature of a victim frozen. 

 

After thinking, I see the first Reid/JJ scene in a bit of a new light. It was perfectly in character for Reid to waylay JJ and try and talk to her. It reminded me of the Reid/Elle scene in "Aftermath", and that is probably my second favorite Reid/Elle scene of all time. Reid does have a history of seeing that his female friends are in emotional turmoil and does his level best to help them. But for some reason, this scene didn't have the same resonance with me as Reid/Elle. Maybe I am just prejudiced (a definite possibility), because I am not JJ's biggest fan these days, but Reid felt a bit off to me. I can't figure out if it is the writing or if it is the acting or directing. Reid felt natural, like a deeply concerned friend when he talked to Elle. And I agree with the poster who said Reid seemed to act like a child scared that his mommy was crying.

 

That's not really anything to do with JJ, though I have a bit of an issue with the writing choices in this scene. It seemed, based on what JJ said, that she was more upset about what happened four years ago, rather than being tortured by Askari. JJ said she couldn't let it go, but she seemed to have no issue letting it go for the past four years. Hell, she was joking about being tortured with Morgan and Kate just a few short months ago. And why was she so upset about Askari's betrayal NOW, when she knew full well four years ago that he was behind the IED attack and ambush that injured her and caused her to miscarry?

 

JJ Observation#3: For a change, JJ's hard attitude during questioning seemed appropriate, though she did get credit for finding Bobby's father. But I never really understood why Bobby's father couldn't file a missing persons report with the police. Sure, the cult may not respond to lawsuits, but I am sure they would have responded to a search warrant looking for Bobby. 

 

JJ Observation#4: It was JJ who suggested the stakeout for the cult house, which of course lead us to the next disconcerting scene.

 

JJ Observation#5: Of course it was JJ who determined that the actual unsub must be the one watching the kids, because all the other cult members were questioned.

 

Now it was got weird from the end of that scene to the end of the episode. I wonder if there was a scene that was shot that explained some very weird actions, because it certainly felt like some sort of connecting scene was missing. I mean, did the police get the phone call from the stakeout alerting them that the kids were on site? And if that was the case, why did only Reid and JJ go to the scene? And Reid's statement that they didn't need a warrant? Uh wrong, of course they needed a warrant. And they probably would have been able to obtain one relatively easily to look for Bobby. So I don't know what the point of that was, except to make the FBI seem extra tough. 

 

And yes, the episode definitely took a downturn from here. As noted by others, it made no sense for Reid to let JJ go alone. There were other police on site, so any one of them could watch the children. Plus, law enforcement really doesn't make a habit of going anywhere without backup. And why exactly was JJ melting down at that point? Yes, in real life flashbacks can occur at any time, but unlike real life, fiction is harder to write, because it is supposed to make sense. And her breakdown didn't really make sense. There was nothing the immediate situation that had any crossover to her torture, and yet she was flashing back while barreling into a potentially dangerous situation alone. She disobeyed a direct order to wait for backup and just went in there blindly. And then she recklessly shot the unsub, not knowing that her gun wouldn't set off the acetylene torch. I guess the whole point of those scenes were supposed to show that JJ was downward spiraling and rapidly.

 

And now of course we get to the final scene. And while a second viewing of this scene made me acknowledge that AJ's acting was fine, it REALLY made me question the writing choices Breen made. I still don't get the point of the last scene between Reid and JJ. I can't really imagine why Reid would think that showing JJ Askari's file would somehow be of help to her. You would think Reid would gently suggest that, while he is open to be her sounding board as her friend, she should really seek professional therapy to help her heal. JJ's pain is beyond the scope of Reid's abilities and he shouldn't be the only one in JJ's support network. And I REALLY can't figure out why Hotch hadn't stepped in by this point. Reid knew full well the dangers of staying quiet when a fellow team member was melting down. He was deeply regretful after Elle left that he didn't say anything sooner, because he knew she was in serious emotional turmoil. Now he does the same thing again. But even so, even without Reid saying something to Hotch, he should have seen something on his own. Hotch noticed that Reid was distracted and asked him about it. And he noticed Reid was struggling during "Elephant's Memory" and stepped in to talk to him about it. And yet he says nothing to JJ. He doesn't reprimand JJ for disobeying orders, and he doesn't talk to her about her struggles. Hotch seemed to have learned his lesson by letting Elle flail on her own, so I can't see why he would be regressing with regards to JJ. We know he holds JJ in high regard. He is her boss, and if he thinks she is breaking down-thus making her a potential danger on the job to herself and others-he has an obligation to intervene. He should order into therapy until she receives the all clear that she is fit for duty. 

 

I can't really get what the writers were going for with the final scene. It just felt so unnecessary, overwrought and indulgent. The ONLY way I would give this scene a pass, is if this was supposed to be the first in her downward spiral, ala Elle and Gideon. Then I could look back and see where it all started. But if this issue is never brought up again, it will feel even more unnecessary. Was the ending supposed to indicate that JJ is back in denial land and suppressing deeply? Or are we supposed to believe that JJ is now "over it?" Of course we won't know that until subsequent episodes. In any case, JJ is in need of some industrial strength therapy, because she is unfit for duty at the moment, in my opinion.

 

Overall, I really disliked this episode for all the reasons I listed. My biggest issue was the overload of JJ in the past few seasons stuffed with so much JJ. And for all the reasons I listed, my main issue is with the writing choices. I can only imagine where the show will go from here.

 

Some questions:

 

1. How come JJ gets to have a scar from her torture, but Reid doesn't get a scar from being shot? I guess Reid has a better plastic surgeon than JJ. Maybe he should refer her.

 

2. How much space was supposed to have happened between Adam's death (the second victim) and retrieval of his body? I mean, for us, it was literally just one scene. But we see him on the autopsy slab with no discovery of the body. In a later scene we do hear that Adam was found in Lake Mead, but it certainly was unclear when the autopsy scene first aired. But at least that scene produced a good conversation among Hotch, Reid and Kate.

 

Some good points:

 

1. My absolute favorite scene of the episode was the plane scene. The light humor felt like a return to scenes from earlier seasons. This show has always had a touch of light humor to offset the darkness of the crimes. The early season scenes felt natural and authentic, like you would think real people would talk and joke with each other. If the later seasons had scenes like that, they sort of felt forced, unnatural and corny, So I was very pleased to watch this scene. I enjoy Kate's rapport with Reid. It feels light and friendly and even though Kate teased Reid, it didn't feel like she did it with malice or with intent to disparage him like we have seen in previous seasons (*coughs*Ashley*coughs*). I enjoyed seeing a return of sassy, smart Reid who knows that statistics are his wheelhouse and people challenge him on it at their own peril. And yes, the Hotch/Reid fist bump was a definite highlight. We don't see enough of the Hotch/Reid friendship these days.

 

2. Yes, it would have been a completely jarring thing and at odds with the entire episode, but I couldn't help but wish that the cult had started chanting "One of us! One of us!" after welcoming a new cult member into the fold.

 

3. Morgan did have his own significant observation when he deduced that Sarah might have gone missing from Arizona and not Nevada. I guess Maps! are cheating on Reid with Morgan. :) :) :)

 

4. Hotch did make his own progress in the case when he had Penelope look for past frostbite victims. 

 

5. Kate was empathetic when establishing rapport with Tom and trying to get him to talk about The Forever People.

 

6. It was nice to see Hotch and Rossi doing profiling when they knew that the cult leader wasn't actually the killer based on his reaction to seeing the pictures. And it was good that Morgan added that none of the cult members reacted abnormally to the pictures. Of course this lead us to JJ Observation#5.

 

7. Reid mentioned a new paraphilia to add to his list. :) :) 

Edited January 16, 2015 by ForeverAlone

[MCatry]

First of all, I haven't watch this episode.

Nevertheless, I've read everything you all wrote here (which is not exactly encouraging)

Many of you said the writers should have use characters a lot better, given that their own personal developments throughout the show made them suitable to deal with PTSD. I noticed this is a common complain on several episodes from this and the last three or four seasons. I think this team of writers choose to consider that whatever happened before they took over Criminal minds simply never existed. That's why Reid's torture never comes up, that's why Hotch being a perceptive team leader is no longer a reality, that's why Morgan is just the muscle-tool, that's why Rossi seems to have forgotten everything he knew about killers. That's why they are not even chasing serial killers anymore.

They are solving just weird homicides, as if that would be the aim of the BAU now.

[The Wild Sow]

Yes, JJ -- there's a "word" for what you're experiencing.

 

"Pee-Tee-Ess-Dee!"   

 

See also:  Shell Shock, Battle Fatigue, Combat Fatigue, War Neurosis.

 

Yeah, you're just not that SPECIAL.

[Danielg342]

First of all, I haven't watch this episode.

Nevertheless, I've read everything you all wrote here (which is not exactly encouraging)

Many of you said the writers should have use characters a lot better, given that their own personal developments throughout the show made them suitable to deal with PTSD. I noticed this is a common complain on several episodes from this and the last three or four seasons. I think this team of writers choose to consider that whatever happened before they took over Criminal minds simply never existed. That's why Reid's torture never comes up, that's why Hotch being a perceptive team leader is no longer a reality, that's why Morgan is just the muscle-tool, that's why Rossi seems to have forgotten everything he knew about killers. That's why they are not even chasing serial killers anymore.

They are solving just weird homicides, as if that would be the aim of the BAU now.

 

That's what the problem really boils down to- that this show has strayed so far from what once made it great it's infuriating. To me, it's not a matter of things simply changing- it's the fact that none of the changes seem at all "natural". I'm pretty sure if a viewer saw an episode from S1 and another from S10 and wasn't told both were episodes of CM, they'd think they're two completely different shows. Even the change from S1-S6 to S7-S10 is huge: even though Edward Allen Bernero made plots more formulaic, he at least kept the "cerebral" element to the show and every story within his watch would have five million different parts, like real life. Erica Messer? She just seems to want episodes where the UnSub gets to show how depraved he is before the Action Mom deduces the case and beats up the UnSub. Things happen but deeper layers are never explored, with the show losing all the subtlety it used to have in spades.

 

I don't think it was better evident than this episode. JJ deduced all the clues, kicked the UnSub's butt and did generally everything herself while fighting off her PTSD demons. We'd call that "badass" if it wasn't unrealistic and wasn't a continuation- or an exaggeration- of what we saw before. We- and the show- were promised a JJ that would be conflicted and would need to dig deep to win the battle, yet she hardly broke a sweat in this episode while the others were useless, and that's the real shame.

[LexiconDevilOne]

This episode bored me to death after only 20 minutes. I was on the verge of falling asleep, I turned and watched Aliens until Top Chef (another show that bored me) came on.

 

Should have just went to sleep instead. Or watched some Jericho reruns on my Kindle....or anything else.  Yawn, I'm bored just writing this.

Edited January 16, 2015 by LexiconDevilOne

[SSAHotchner]

That's what the problem really boils down to- that this show has strayed so far from what once made it great it's infuriating. To me, it's not a matter of things simply changing- it's the fact that none of the changes seem at all "natural". I'm pretty sure if a viewer saw an episode from S1 and another from S10 and wasn't told both were episodes of CM, they'd think they're two completely different shows. Even the change from S1-S6 to S7-S10 is huge: even though Edward Allen Bernero made plots more formulaic, he at least kept the "cerebral" element to the show and every story within his watch would have five million different parts, like real life. Erica Messer? She just seems to want episodes where the UnSub gets to show how depraved he is before the Action Mom deduces the case and beats up the UnSub. Things happen but deeper layers are never explored, with the show losing all the subtlety it used to have in spades.

 

I don't think it was better evident than this episode. JJ deduced all the clues, kicked the UnSub's butt and did generally everything herself while fighting off her PTSD demons. We'd call that "badass" if it wasn't unrealistic and wasn't a continuation- or an exaggeration- of what we saw before. We- and the show- were promised a JJ that would be conflicted and would need to dig deep to win the battle, yet she hardly broke a sweat in this episode while the others were useless, and that's the real shame.

Yes! Erica and the current writers have ruined this once great show. I remember during the hiatus several years ago Erica promised that all the new writers would watch all the previous seasons to learn about the characters. Never happened. It's not that the show has just run its course, although it certainly seems so. Hill Street Blues was on for 7 seasons and had many more regular characters than CM, and yet they found a way to give them each something to do in every single episode and it never got old. There was character growth but never the kind of complete change in characters we've seen over the course of CM. It's because the current writers and show runner don't understand the premise of the show or the characters. I'm afraid Hotch isn't even enough to keep me around anymore, especially since he's hardly visible in most of the episodes. AJC's little interview contradicted what happened in this episode. Surely she can't be so dense as to not know what she filmed/what was in the script was exactly what viewers have been objecting to the past couple of seasons. We're supposed to believe she's human because she cried? She and the writers are in this little bizarro world where they think they can say anything, write anything and the viewers will just accept it without question and think that they are wonderful. This used to be a show for thinking people. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief over little things here and there, but I'm afraid I just can't accept this kind of crap writing anymore. The thing that makes me maddest is that they think we're too stupid to notice or care when what they write doesn't make any sense or just plain could never happen. With all the money they put into making this show, can't they pay even one person to fact check and get some of this right? "Hey we want to do a show about PTSD. How do people experiencing PTSD behave?" "So, if you freeze someone, can their heart be started again?" Since the show is mostly about murders, isn't there a forensic pathologist as a consultant? Sheesh! Instead they just give all the writers additional credits as producers and  yet none of them bothers to see if each other's scripts seem plausible much less their own. I'd be delighted to be a researcher on such a show and I would work my tail off to get it right, but I have the feeling that they don't care and they don't think any of the viewers will question anything they write.

[zannej]

I do wonder just how much control Breen had in this one. I know his name is on the story, but he mentioned in chats before that he had ideas and they were shot down by Erica. So I wonder if how things played out with JJ were dictated to him and that he was told he couldn't bring up Reid's PTSD. I mean, wasn't it earlier in this very season that Reid mentioned his PTSD to Morgan?

 

I actually didn't think AJ's acting was so terrible. I've seen better, but I think there were some moments where she was believable.

 

Is it wrong that I want to see an outtake where JJ says "give me a word" and Reid says "Bullshit". Too bad Matthew doesn't know really long words, because it would have been hilarious if Reid had said "floccinaucinihilipilification" (which is a really long word that means small or insignificant). More likely he'd probably say something like "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious". I know some people would have thought that Reid was mean if he'd stood up to her and given her some sass and told her she wasn't the first person to go through torture. But they could have had him talk to JJ in a calm and understanding way and said that he knows that the feelings are so strong it doesn't seem like just words can do them justice. Still think it would be funny if his word was "bullshit" though. Don't ask me why. Hell, Reid could have just made a word up and said it with such authority that she believed him. :P

 

At least this time when some of the team were dumping on Reid, it was done with humor and you could tell they weren't really serious. And at least Reid stood up for himself instead of being stumped. Too bad he devolved into a wibbly little baby later on.

Edited January 17, 2015 by zannej

[Danielg342]

I do wonder just how much control Breen had in this one. I know his name is on the story, but he mentioned in chats before that he had ideas and they were shot down by Erica. So I wonder if how things played out with JJ were dictated to him and that he was told he couldn't bring up Reid's PTSD. I mean, wasn't it earlier in this very season that Reid mentioned his PTSD to Morgan?

Perhaps I was unduly harsh on him- he has written some of my favourites, like “The Uncanny Valley” and “52 Pickup”, so it's likely more Erica Messer's fault than Breen Frazier's. Still, this was CM's worst written episode by a mile- someone has to shoulder the blame for that, and I guess it should be Messer.

There might be one small chance I find this episode “appreciable” and that's if it's part of an arc where JJ spirals into a deep depression that causes her to lose her job or at least takes her off the next few cases. Any attempt to handwave it or dismiss it would be deeply troubling and frankly offensive, especially since the show treated PTSD so well before.

[normasm]

 The thing that makes me maddest is that they think we're too stupid to notice or care when what they write doesn't make any sense or just plain could never happen. With all the money they put into making this show, can't they pay even one person to fact check and get some of this right? "Hey we want to do a show about PTSD. How do people experiencing PTSD behave?" "So, if you freeze someone, can their heart be started again?" Since the show is mostly about murders, isn't there a forensic pathologist as a consultant? Sheesh! Instead they just give all the writers additional credits as producers and  yet none of them bothers to see if each other's scripts seem plausible much less their own. I'd be delighted to be a researcher on such a show and I would work my tail off to get it right, but I have the feeling that they don't care and they don't think any of the viewers will question anything they write.

 

I agree with this, and i know i'm harsh on the researchers, but in retrospect, just like with some of the writers, i wonder just how much power the researchers have to shape the narrative. The most grievous medical botches they have done over the years (and they've done some doozies) may well have been thoroughly researched and written up, and the writers and show runner just cherry-picked the elements they wanted to use. Never mind that you can't shock a cold heart into rhythm, or have a person be "cured" of scleroderma, or suddenly decide that fingerprints aren't an acceptable form of discerning between identical twins, we need the plot to hinge on it, so MAKE IT SO...

Is it wrong that I want to see an outtake where JJ says "give me a word" and Reid says "Bullshit". Too bad Matthew doesn't know really long words, because it would have been hilarious if Reid had said "floccinaucinihilipilification" (which is a really long word that means small or insignificant). More likely he'd probably say something like "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious". I know some people would have thought that Reid was mean if he'd stood up to her and given her some sass and told her she wasn't the first person to go through torture. But they could have had her talk to JJ in a calm and understanding way and said that he knows that the feelings are so strong it doesn't seem like just words can do them justice. Still think it would be funny if his word was "bullshit" though. Don't ask me why. Hell, Reid could have just made a word up and said it with such authority that she believed him. :P

 

 I like this a million times.

[idiotwaltz]

I've started a new job which, sadly, significantly reduces amount the time I have for television, and I was wondering if I should bother with this one. Looks like I'll skip. 

 

Is Jennifer Love Hewitt still in this show? 

[normasm]

Just watched again. On the plane, after Rossi says "The kid was right," and Reid holds out his fist to Morgan, we see Morgan and hear Reid saying, "Blow it up." Morgan says, "Never!" I laughed yet again.

[TigerLynx]

To me, the writers seem to have lost the balance for the characters when JJ and Emily were written out.  They brought them back, but it hasn't been the same since that.  It's to bad because when Gideon left, I thought the remaining cast members worked really good together.  When they first brought in Rossi, it seemed a little rough, but then things started going smoothly again.

 

Also, it's become overkill with ALL of the characters having trauma.  The job they have would be stressful enough, but now they have either:

 

1) been tortured,

2) shot,

3) had someone they cared about killed,

4) all of the above, etc.

 

It really does not make sense that everyone would not realize what was going on with JJ.

[JMO]

 

Just watched again. On the plane, after Rossi says "The kid was right," and Reid holds out his fist to Morgan, we see Morgan and hear Reid saying, "Blow it up." Morgan says, "Never!" I laughed yet again.

 

This will probably be my favorite scene of the season (sadly).  It also reminded me of when Morgan and Garcia returned from London and Reid turned Morgan's attempted fist-bump into a fist-shake. He's come a long way in two years!

[missmycat]

I've started a new job which, sadly, significantly reduces amount the time I have for television, and I was wondering if I should bother with this one. Looks like I'll skip. 

 

Is Jennifer Love Hewitt still in this show? 

Yes the screen hogger is still there taking away screen time from poor AJ Cook whom we all know hardly gets any to begin with.BTW at the moment I happen to be channeling some of those crazies over on the CM Facebook page.

[MCatry]

Sorry, but I still can't quote in my iPad...

"To me, the writers seem to have lost the balance for the characters when JJ and Emily were written out"

Again: these are not the same writers. The previous one never lost the balance for the characters. Criminal minds lost its writers when they hired the current ones that play that part, but they wouldn't even watch the previous seasons to know what they have to write about.

[zannej]

I like that Reid didn't let it get him down when Morgan refused to return his fistbump.

I particularly like the word floccinaucinihilipilification. Its a fun word to say. I would love to see Matthew attempting to say it. I first read about it in a book I have about 2,000 obscure words.

 

Idiotwaltz, in this episode, JLH's character teased Reid and questioned whether or not he really was a genius or if he just said things with such authority that people just believed him. I suspect it was sort of an inside joke and nod to the fact that Matthew can apparently flub the words, but they still let him get away with it because he says it with such authority that the crew buys it. Of course, its also a known tactic for people who don't really know WTF they are talking about to just state something as fact adamantly and expect people to believe them. I've known quite a few people who do that. I liked that it was done in a good-natured way. I also liked that Hotch knew that Reid would know and seemed to be taking Reid's side (albeit quietly).

 

I have to say that I think "200" was worse than this one. And as for culpability for the failure, even if Breen's initial plan sucked, ultimately the other writers all got together and agreed on what the final story would be and the showrunner gave the green light. If Erica thought the story was not good, she would have told him to rewrite it or change things (and she may very well have done that). So the blame falls on her shoulders (and on whoever else is responsible for such decision-making).