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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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7kstar

7kstar

Realistically, if Dean is demonic, he should be abstaining--like with the burger that he left uneaten and Crowley noticed--and that should be what clues Sam in that something's off with Dean. I'm actually skeptical about this "intense" relationship, I'm betting they released it to get everyone all worked up and excited that they might see a neekid Dean. I think there will be some grain of truth to it, but I also thing they're purposely misleading folks and trying to get everyone worked up. That seems to be what they spend their energy on these days--stirring the pot to create buzz.  I wouldn't be surprised if "intense" turns out to mean that some chick throws herself at Dean and he's not all that interested, but ends up killing her because, well, he's demonic, you know. Bonus points if this is the thing that, once he's no longer demonic, he remembers and feels most guilty about.

 

Sorry, I just can't bring myself to be anything but pessimistic about the writing of this show anymore...didn't mean to rain on anyone's parade.

Well they do seem to like writing like a 12 year old when it comes to sex lately. 

 

Intense can mean so many things so I'll wait before I get worked up over it.  I think they think if the fans are attacking each other and really steamed they will want to tune in.  I always laugh when people wonder why this movie made so much money because it had a good story with good characterizations and didn't have the gore and sex to sell it.

 

Seem like several writers think the formula, okay we got the gore, check

got the female  bonus since we have a short sex scene

put in some drama,

yep that's a strong show, they'll love it!

 

then are shocked when the fans have an opposite reaction. 

 

I really wonder if they will use the Line from Season 4 - Dean - We need each other to stay human.  Now maybe Sam will realize he has a chance of getting through because Dean did in Season 5.  I'll watch but if this show doesn't improve, I hope they will let it go before there isn't much to like about the show at all.

 

Also sometimes I have trouble expressing myself with words and write things not necessarily in the right way, so if you feel I've done a 180, most likely I expressed myself badly. 

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

 

Realistically, if Dean is demonic, he should be abstaining--like with the burger that he left uneaten and Crowley noticed--and that should be what clues Sam in that something's off with Dean.

What little bits we saw from S8/S9 demons had killing high up on their list of "yay".  I've never quite got the whole eating thing for demons.  Crowley clearly enjoys scotch but also promises "entrails for everyone".  And Lilith ate BABIES.  Then there's Cain who was sitting down to a meal which included lots of corn on the cob.  Finally human blood addict Crowley loved pizza, sex, and chick-flick movies.  BUT since Crowley existed for months in the dungeon with no food -- I'd say it's a safe bet demons don't NEED food but they can enjoy it. 

 

As Crowley specifically mentioned Dean not eating the cheeseburger as a "sign", then I think it's important to look at that as a take-away (since we were setting up S10 at that moment).  At the moment it happened Dean had already been yakking up blood because he wasn't killing.  So his body was being effected.  Now add the no-hunger. COULD be because he had an upset tummy or could be because he really didn't need food anymore.  They could go either way but the "doesn't need food" is what I think Crowley was hoping for. In other words, Dean's body was in "prep" mode for being a demon.

 

What does this have to do with intense sex?  Well the food part is just an indicator that human biological needs and demon needs are different.  Is Demon!Dean riding Dead!Dean's meatsuit?  If the meatsuit is dead then will he not be getting any feeling off of it.  If true, then sex would not be physically satisfying -- only the emotional component of connection.  Without love (and a "fling" implies sans-love), then does he "get" something off of HER reaction?  Demons seemed to enjoy other's pain (like the Crossroad demon taunting Dean).  Maybe it's not just pain - maybe it's intense feelings.  So maybe Dean gets a rush from giving the woman ... a rush (if you know what I mean)?  Maybe it makes him feel more alive?  Of course he could get a rush from treating her bad. But it seems to me that's less of a "hit". In other words, they could easily go the pain route but pain from torture seems like a quicker "hit" for a demon than emotional torture from non-consensual sex.

 

IDK. I guess I'm just spitballin' now but the question is "what does Demon!Dean get out of sex"? I would contend that unlike Souless!Sam who had biological satisfaction, Demon!Dean is getting something emotional from it. Either his partner's fear or intense feelings.  There's a certain pain/pleasure aspect to sex he might be taping into.  Maybe this is an alternative to killing?

 

Just throwing out ideas.  I suspect the 12-yr old mentality will rule vice anything sophisticated but I wanted to think it through a bit.   

Edited by SueB
AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

(edited)

Is Demon!Dean riding Dead!Dean's meatsuit?  If the meatsuit is dead then will he not be getting any feeling off of it.  If true, then sex would not be physically satisfying -- only the emotional component of connection.  Without love (and a "fling" implies sans-love), then does he "get" something off of HER reaction?  Demons seemed to enjoy other's pain (like the Crossroad demon taunting Dean).  Maybe it's not just pain - maybe it's intense feelings.

 

I'm not sure the body is dead dead when the demon occupies it. It appears that unlike say a traditional vampire - where they are supposed to be cold and no longer "functioning" - that didn't seem to be how Ruby described what was going on with her meatsuit. When she came to seduce Sam, she specifically invited him to touch her recycled and no longer soul-having body to see how nice and soft and warm it was... implying that with a demon inside, at least some things about the body function at least partially normally. Now when she left it behind to ride the maid for a bit, she did describe the body as being dead on the floor, but with her in it, it seems to have some characteristic of being "alive."

 

Now her having sex with Sam may or may not have given her actual physical pleasure: we don't know, because there were plenty of other things, such as getting him addicted and tricking him that were also involved there to give her the satisfaction we saw on her face, but the potential seems to be there, A demon does seem to feel pain when the body is damaged, so it perhaps can experience pleasure as well.

 

An angel appears to be different, because unlike say punching a demon in a meatsuit, punching an angel in a meatsuit is like punching a rock, so apparently the angel has more affect on his or her meatsuit's characteristics than a demon does.

 

As for the eating thing, it may be a matter of preference. Ruby for example really enjoyed eating french fries, but I doubt she needs to actually eat. It might be like the vampires on Buffy. They didn't have to eat food, just blood, so Angel never ate food and wouldn't even do so for appearance's sake or socially. Spike, however, enjoyed eating, and did so often - enough to have multiple foods he enjoyed (and even knew how some were prepared) - and he actually preferred to have his blood with crackers in it when he had to eat it secondhand. And at least one more vampire "couple" were seen making Jiffy Pop popcorn before Buffy and Spike rudely interrupted them, so Angel's "vampires don't eat" certainly didn't apply to all vampires.

 

So I don't know. Since Dean as a human really enjoys food, I would more see him as really really enjoying food as a demon. He could theoretically eat all he wants without getting sick, so he could indulge all he wanted. With Sam on the other hand, eating seems more like something he does because it's a necessity, so I could see him as just giving it up as a demon if he didn't have to eat.

 

But I don't know which direction they'll go with Dean. Can a demon feel guilty? Because if any demon could, it would be Dean, and that might mean he wouldn't feel like eating.

Edited by AwesomO4000
SueB

SueB

  • Author

All excellent points. Especially -- if they can feel pain they they must feel pleasure. And Ruby's meatsuit was warm when occupied. 

 

So Dean may get physical pleasure out of sex -- which says to me he'll be hitting that hard.  (Oy, no dirty pun intended).  But I still think the partner's reaction will matter to him -- perhaps differently than before.  And if Ruby enjoyed fries, then I can see Dean back on pies and cheeseburgers.  Then again "pie" was a Mom thing.  I could see him not evoking the Mom-comfort memory of pies.  Alcohol, OTOH, I expect to be imbibed in copious amounts. 

catrox14

catrox14

(edited)
Demons on this show aren't about sex, drinking, and drugs (most of the main demons on the show were rarely interested in any of these things, aside from rape threats) as much as they're about torture and death and finding pure joy in torture and death. That's what Dean would fear most.

 

 

 

Demons use sex and sexuality as part and parcel of their machinations whether they have actual sex or not.  Meg!Sam was sexually harassing Jo,Ghost!Meg said Meg dressed her up to look like a slut and IMO probably seduced men.  Abaddon and Meg both rubbed up against Dean and Sam.  Ruby used sex to manipulate Sam.  I shudder to think that Alastair used sex against Dean in Hell. Demons in the bar in magnificent seven drank(I don't know about drugs). IMO Demons and sex go hand in hand and it's generally used as a weapon or tool to get what they want.  Dean has not used sex as a weapon that I can remember. He flirts to get information but IMO that's a whole different kettle of fish than the sexual threats demons level on their prey.  I don't think casual sex is wrong or bad. So to me having the character that has more casual sex or is more openly sexual become a demon when demons use sex as a weapon and now he's going to have an "intense" relationship.....that's problematic for me.

 

Even torture is something Dean has already done.  As to joy from torture, Dean didn't have "joy" from when he tortured but he said he "liked it" which I took to mean got relief and satisfaction from The more I think about demon!Dean the more I hate it.

Edited by catrox14
Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Will Dean have much say in what he does since apparently Crowley absconded with him?

 

 

Did I miss a spoiler somewhere?  I figured that Dean, discovering the truth, took off.  Perhaps to get answers from Cain.  (It's what I would do.)

 

If Dean has the powers of the Mark and the Blade, I'd be surprised if Crowley is able to make him do anything.

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oliverwendell

oliverwendell

(edited)

I've been assuming Dean and Crowley scarpered off together to howl at the moon based on the fact that Mark Sheppard was promoted to series regular.  But now that I think about it, I don't think we have an actual spoiler that says so.

 

I do agree that Crowley is going to get more than he bargained for with Demon Dean.  Dean Winchester is nobody's minion.  

Edited by fourteenwords
DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

I assume that Dean is acting from pure instinct. Waking up evil might be a little overwhelming to him.

 

Being a series regular doesn't mean Mark Sheppard will be in many more episodes though, Misha was a series regular last season and it seemed Mark Sheppard was around the same amount if not more than Misha. I think it just means that they will get paid for a specific number of episodes whether they use him or not, but also ties the actor to the show more and they may not be able to take on some other projects when offered.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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PeteMartell

PeteMartell

Demons use sex and sexuality as part and parcel of their machinations whether they have actual sex or not.  Meg!Sam was sexually harassing Jo,Ghost!Meg said Meg dressed her up to look like a slut and IMO probably seduced men.  Abaddon and Meg both rubbed up against Dean and Sam.  Ruby used sex to manipulate Sam.  I shudder to think that Alastair used sex against Dean in Hell. Demons in the bar in magnificent seven drank(I don't know about drugs). IMO Demons and sex go hand in hand and it's generally used as a weapon or tool to get what they want.  Dean has not used sex as a weapon that I can remember. He flirts to get information but IMO that's a whole different kettle of fish than the sexual threats demons level on their prey.  I don't think casual sex is wrong or bad. So to me having the character that has more casual sex or is more openly sexual become a demon when demons use sex as a weapon and now he's going to have an "intense" relationship.....that's problematic for me.

 

Even torture is something Dean has already done.  As to joy from torture, Dean didn't have "joy" from when he tortured but he said he "liked it" which I took to mean got relief and satisfaction from The more I think about demon!Dean the more I hate it.

 

To me that isn't sex, that's sexual assault. The show has always blurred that line (for instance, a lot of fans were turned on by the Dean/Abaddon scene where she held his head and spoke to him about possession), but I never took it as anything but power and violence.

 

I don't think the show is going to have Dean do that, because demon or not, this is still Dean, and I don't think they would have Dean raping women. 

 

What worries me is that the show won't see the line and will sell Dean coercing a woman into sex as being hot.

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SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

So apparently the Meijer's near a mod at Winchester Family Business puts out their TV Guide Covers as soon as they show up.  Hee.  These guys SCOOPED EVERYBODY.  Well done WFB! 

Link to Spoilers inside: http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/spoilers/18634-supernatural-season-ten-spoilers-from-tv-guide-2014-comic-con-edition

 

I gush about my happiness regarding these spoilers in the comments to their post.  Short short version:

- Yay for a Crowely/Dean relationship.  I think Crowely has a tiger by the tail and is going to eventually get mauled here.  Can't wait.

- Yay for Sam on a mission!

- Yay for Cas being back on earth (my interpretation based on recent photo of beat-up Cas).f

- Yay for Crowley being really effected.

- Yay they have not simplistically wrapped up the Heaven story -- I think there's more closure needed.  Much more. 

Edited by SueB
Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)

For me, this is confirmation that Demon Dean is a Soulless Sam retread.  No way that Dean would be "friends" with Crowley -- or they would have a kinship or whatever Carver called it.  Demon Dean has to be entirely "other", IMO.

 

They better write something fan-freaking-tastic to make me believe that Dean is cool with being a demon and friends with Crowley.  Season 3 Dean was terrified of becoming a demon.  I've seen no change to his characterization that would make it okay now.

 

ETA  Based on the wording, I'm also concerned that Dean's characterization is being sacrificed in order to give Crowley some humanity.  While I love Mark Sheppard, Crowley needs to die.  Sam or Dean probably should have killed him a long time ago.

 

This combined with earlier spoilers really makes me start to think that Crowley is going to be a much larger presence in season 10 than he ever has been before.  Not sure how I feel about that.

Edited by Demented Daisy
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ElleryAnne

ElleryAnne

I usually appreciate it when a show realizes they can't take the simplistic way out, but I didn't want Metatron back.  I think I could've given them a pass on the lack of closure just this once.  (But then, I'd also give them a pass if they have Sam wake up beside Jessica at the beginning of S10 to find that this whole thing is a dream, and Dean is just now breaking into his apartment to ask him to help find John. So I'm probably not the best one to judge.)

 

Any kind of kinship bond between Crowley and Dean makes me vaguely ill, but at least I think the two actors could make it work, maybe?  Trying to be positive here.  And it may give Sam and Castiel some good stuff dealing with it.  More than just angsting over it, I mean.  Sam doing everything he can to save Dean or get back his soul or however it'll play out, that's got to be good, right?  Maybe? *sigh*

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

And it may give Sam and Castiel some good stuff dealing with it.  More than just angsting over it, I mean.  Sam doing everything he can to save Dean or get back his soul or however it'll play out, that's got to be good, right?  Maybe? *sigh*

 

Sam getting to do some active saving would definitely be a good thing in my book... unless he fails again or somehow makes things worse. I'm a bit tired of Sam being snake bit in that department since it's been happening since the end of season 1.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I agree, @Demented Daisy about demon!Dean. Dean's worst and most terrible nightmare and greatest fear other than Sam dying is being turned into a demon. Gods I HATE THIS SO MUCH.

 

These spoilers, if they are legit, are really not endearing me at ALL to this Demon!Dean plot.  Dean LOATHES Crowley. IMO, our Dean would rather die by a thousand rusty sporks than call fucking Crowley a "friend". I could live with them being snarky frienemies at best.
 

ETA  Based on the wording, I'm also concerned that Dean's characterization is being sacrificed in order to give Crowley some humanity.  While I love Mark Sheppard, Crowley needs to die.  Sam or Dean probably should have killed him a long time ago

 

So much word to this. Crowley was an entertaining piece of shit. Now he's just a piece of shit that needs to be flushed, for what he did to Dean. It's despicable and making Dean his friend because/after Crowley turned him into a demon against his will or knowledge. NOPE NOPE NOPES upon NOPES upon NOPES.

 

The only way that will work for me is if our Dean didn't actually die a really most sincere death and he knows that he's now a demon and has decided to use to his advantage to play Crowley for all Crowley's worth.

 

I honestly don't want Sam to save Dean. I want Dean to save himself if he can. 

Edited by catrox14
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

And ANOTHER THING!  The more I think about this, the more angry this makes me. Like I am legit pissed off about this "kinship' between Dean and Crowley.

 

Jensen has said that Cas and Dean were a kinship because they have been in battle together and supported each other, bonds formed in tragedy, war buddies. They have saved each others lives. Dean and Benny had a similar kinship because of their time in Purgatory. And now Carver is saying that Dean has a kinship with the godsdamn King of Hell?  It's nowhere NEAR the same things as Dean developing a bond with a vampire who proved himself to be Dean's actual friend and ally, who by the way, sacrificed himself to save Dean's brother simply because he was Dean's brother and Oh by the way, NEVER tried to turn Dean into a fucking vampire.  What a bunch of sick shit is this?

 

I have said ever since Carver took over as showrunner that he doesn't like his own lead characters. He destroyed Sam's characterization with the not looking for Dean thing and the terrible speech in the Purge and now he's making Dean be friends against his will with Crowley?? /head desk /head desk /head desk.  Argghhhh

 

I may or may not have strong feelings about demon!Dean.

Edited by catrox14
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)
I think Season 10 will be about everyone looking up and saying, 'You know what, I am what I am.'  We'll see that play out in each and every character.

 

 

Please don't let this be a rehash of Dean not deserving to be saved.  Please don't let this be Dean saying that he's screwed up so much he deserves to be a demon.  *sigh*

 

ETA  Oh, dear Chuck, no.  I just remembered, from Road Trip:

 

Kevin's blood is on my hands, and that ain't ever getting clean. I'll burn for that.

 

 

I'm poison, Sam. People get close to me, they get killed...or worse.

You know, I tell myself that I-I -- I help more people than I hurt. And I tell myself that I'm -- I'm doing it all

for the right reasons, and I -- I believe that. But I can't -- I won't... Drag anybody through the muck with me. Not anymore.

 

 

Yep, he thinks he deserves to be a demon.

 

I may have had it.  Officially.

Edited by Demented Daisy
DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I can't bring myself to get worked up yet. It all sounds crappy, but this show has such a track record for saying "this season is going to be about....", but I've rarely felt like that's what's developed on my screen. I decided half-way through S8 to take everything uttered by Carver himself with a grain of salt. Remember when Sam and Dean were going to have a more grown-up and adult relationship? If what they have been putting before us for the last two years is what goes for as grown-up and adult behavior, I shudder to think what they would consider childish behavior.

 

But yeah, Dean befriending the King of Hell? Sounds rather lame and quite frankly rather stupid. As much as I love, LOVE, Mark Sheppard, I have been saying they needed to stab Crowley in his face for at least three years. If this is in-fact what's going to happen, at least I can look forward to some incredibly wonderful line deliveries from both Jensen and Mark Sheppard.

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catrox14

catrox14

I'm poison, Sam. People get close to me, they get killed...or worse.

You know, I tell myself that I-I -- I help more people than I hurt. And I tell myself that I'm -- I'm doing it all

for the right reasons, and I -- I believe that. But I can't -- I won't... Drag anybody through the muck with me. Not anymore.

 

Dean said quite specifically in 9.23 to Sam "No, Sam, it's better this way. It's making me into something don't wanna be": /gross sobbing.  To me that acknowledged quite clearly that Dean knew that was going to become a murdering murderer and he absolutely did not want that. But no, Carver is going to say that Dean will be who is and that's a demon? What the what?  I just do not understand.

Mcolleague

Mcolleague

Carver should really stay away from PR. It's probably the only thing he is worse at than showrunning. This is the same guy who said Sam leaving Dean to rot in Purgatory was a sign of maturity. /eyeroll

 

I'm just going to go ahead and ignore whatever his "interpretation" was, I assume it's going to be nothing at all like what we'll actually see onscreen next season. 

Pete Martell

Pete Martell

It's all so vague it's tough for me to have a reaction. The real Dean would never be friendly with Crowley and I think that will remain the case. I think Dean will eventually become human again.


Carver should really stay away from PR. It's probably the only thing he is worse at than showrunning. This is the same guy who said Sam leaving Dean to rot in Purgatory was a sign of maturity. /eyeroll

 

I'm just going to go ahead and ignore whatever his "interpretation" was, I assume it's going to be nothing at all like what we'll actually see onscreen next season. 

 

He really doesn't say that much. He barely said anything for most of 8 and 9.

 

It all sounded very vague to me, but YMMV.

SueB

SueB

  • Author

Am I alone in my squee?  Well alrighty then.  Here's what I see:

- Of course Dean thinks he's poison and is going to burn in Hell.  That's our Dean -- who thinks he's worthless.  But catrox14 got it right: Dean doesn't WANT to be a murderer.  He openly rejected what he was becoming and said it was better to die than become that.  So I am absolutely positive that Dean will not end up being the happy murdering demon.  Not OUR Dean.  Sam WILL fix him and Dean may just realize he's not a piece of shit like he thinks he is.  IMO it was Dean's belief that he was destined for Hell that made him desperate enough to take on the Mark.  Dean HAS to get over that mindset.  Carver's words give me hope he will.

- Crowley and Dean being besties for a while.  IDK... I think it'll be fun.  The two of them are very inventive and the one-liners alone should be a riot.  And I fully expect Dean to eventually come into his own head.  Ultimately Cain was able to do that (and stop mindless killing) so I think Dean will too.  Cain, of course, is a random variable in this.  I wonder what role he will play? But back to El Deano --- unlike Cain, I think he'll be his own "demon" before winter finale.  And then Crowley will be in trouble.  It could be faster than that even as I have a hard time seeing them keeping the boys separate for more than 2 or 3 episodes.  They understand Supernatural 101. 

 

I'm just not worried that come the end of S10 it'll be a mess.  Sure there will be icky moments (because hey, they DO that... alot).  But I expect far more good than bad. 

7kstar

7kstar

I expect some comedy and drama with Crowley and Dean.  Crowley thinking that he has control over Dean only to find out that Dean is doing his own thing. 

 

Looking at Season 2, They kept pushing Dean is good at killing.  Carver's ep in season 3 really pushed the notion that Sam needed to let Dean go to get out of the cycle of being used by the bad guys.

 

Carver has been more tight lipped than Kripke ever was.  In fact most of his comments seem to be purposely misleading.  So no I'm not getting upset.  I've held out this long and there were some good eps last season, so there will be a few this next season.  Some we will snarl and cringe but I'm expecting Jensen to knock it out of the park whatever material they give him.  So for now I'll be a bit excited.  I find if I'm too excited I get really really disappointed but if I'm hopeful without too much expectations I enjoy the season a lot more.

 

I really doubt they will have Dean and Sam away from each other for the entire first half because they have NEVER been willing to do that.  I also hope it will lead to rebuilding of the brothers...HOW I don't have a clue!

kimrey

kimrey

(edited)

An actor named Adam Boys tweeted about spending the day with Jared and Jensen on the 14th.  When someone asked him more about it he said we'd see in season 10.  So since they're filming episode 3, I think it's safe to say Sam and Dean are together in that one, at least for some scenes.  I guess it could be Jared filming and Jensen directing, but it kinda makes it sound like he was acting with them.

 

Jared and Jensen will be at the TCAs today.  Hopefully there will be some spoilers!

Edited by kimrey
SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

I really hope they come together within the first three episodes.  Usually they "wrap" the cliffhanger mostly in the first two episodes and get into the rhythm of the season in EP3.  Last year, we didn't really "wrap" what Cas was going to be doing until EP3.  So it could take through that episode for us to have a feel for how it's going to be.

With the TCA's this week and Comic-Con next weekend, I'm certain there's a 'script' handed out for what they can and cannot say.  Both J's can push the envelope a bit so it'll be interesting to see how much of a leash Carver tries to put on.  They'll let us know, I suspect.  At Comic Con I expect Misha to have a little more freedom (because the Angel plot is a slow burn) and Mark Sheppard to be quippy and of no use at all when it comes to spoilers.  Shappard is particularly tight-lipped on a good day. 

 

Also of note is that the only film clips they can piece together for a Comic-Con teaser will be EP3 and most of EP1.  I don't know if we'll get much.  Last year we got EP2 teaser (Crowley being put into the dungeon) ... I'll speculate that this was partially because they filmed EP2 first and because we saw Sheppard was sitting there on the stage (thus an unlikely quick-kill). 

 

Looking forward to today.  BTW, has anyone else seen the publicity shots with Misha in a black trench?

Edited by SueB
catrox14

catrox14

I was thinking when I was swimming this morning...yeah I think about this stupid show when I swim..don't judge me!, that I don't understand Crowley's motives for turning Dean into a demon. Companionship seems kind of weaksauce motivation. Anyway, I was wondering if Lucifer ,even though he's in his cage, somehow coerced Crowley into turning Dean so Lucifer can offer to make Dean human again in exchange for Sam finally saying yes after all these years. (Detroit anyone?) Or maybe Crowley will make that deal so that he can have more favor in Lucifer's eyes.  What do you guys think?

DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I don't know about the Lucifer thing...it could work, though. I was thinking that Gadreel would turn out to be working to free Lucifer last season, I suck at speculation.

 

I'm not sure that Crowley "turned" Dean into a demon or was actively working to that end as much as he just let it happen. I got the vibe that he just wanted to see how it all played out rather than masterminding some plan. I think he was just curious what would happen...yeah, I think.

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7kstar

7kstar

Well one point that has been shown forever, is Dean not on your side is a death sentence.  Crowley was making sure that Dean would save him against another demon so maybe he thinks Dean will be easier to lead with the mark and now being a Demon.

 

But he isn't stupid and knows he needs friendly Dean vs something else.  I doubt Crowley wants Lucifer out of the cage because that would definitely put a large dent in his plans.  Now that Crowley has had the taste of being top dog, I doubt he would do anything to end that.

 

Also anyone that harms Moose would have a mark on his back.  Crowley wouldn't want Dean to have a definite reason to kill him.  Making them drinking buddies is his best option for trying to control a loose cannon.

catrox14

catrox14

So of all the questionable things that Dean has done, making a deal to save Sam's life by trusting an angel that duped him and was the actual killer of Kevin is going to be the rationale for Dean's demonity?  Ugh...I just ugh.

 

And on a shallow note...oh dear gods Jensen is just stunning in that picture (I mean when is he never not stunning but just saying)

ElleryAnne

ElleryAnne

Grrr.  Also, yummy.  Also, the little voice in my head really wants to change never to ever, because the little voice in my head apparently resents double-negatives, even in quotes from the show.  Also, grrr, some more, because why show, why?  Isn't there enough angst?  Does Dean have to hate himself so very much? He doesn't deserve it.  He's spent his whole life trying to do what's right and save the world and his friends and every stranger he can and angels and he sacrifices everything he wants and Sam is only ever really a help some of the time and Cas isn't always much help and everyone else he loves dies but it's not his fault and it's always on Dean to fix everything and make the hard decisions and it's never enough and that's just not fair and I hate that the show just never allows him to be happy or even just not unhappy and maybe a little proud of himself sometimes anymore and if it turns out he's happy under the influence of being a demon I'll cry but if he's unhappy then it's more of the same old story and why, writers, why?   Make it be that the whole S10 about being who you really are just refers to the process of Dean realizing that he's really a good guy that doesn't deserve to be a demon and that's what they're really going for, because otherwise the angst, sheesh, the angst!  Please!

 

This stream of consciousness has been brought to you by ElleryAnne, who isn't always properly verbal when looking at big gorgeous pictures of Jensen Ackles as a troubled Dean Winchester.

  • Love 5
SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

Catching up on the twitter feed from the TCA's.  There were probably over 200 tweets on my feed for the Supernatural panel alone.  Bits I gleaned:

- They are very excited about the show still -- if they think the quality is going down they'll end it but right now they don't have an end in mind (SueB interpretation: unless told otherwise, they are not writing S10 as the final season).

- The show keeps them physically fit due to action sequences -- harder to do stunts now than 10 years ago but they really try to do most of the stuff themselve.

- Lovefest for fans.  Neither Jared or Jensen read fanfic to avoid getting a vision different than the writers (Jared used the word "sacred" when speaking about what the writers right, Jensen said he wanted to remain "unsoiled").  BOTH were "more power to them" regarding fanfiction (Jensen called it art and Jared wants to read after his days of filming are over). 

- Carver says there's a hunter around that's going to cause trouble. Demon!Dean is not what you expect. Demon!Dean will be around for longer than one episode.

- Vancouver better for filming - less Hollywood crazy, longer night hours

- Castiel is a weakened angel -- pretty much where we left him last season

- Sam looking for Dean

 

Essential hair check photo:

0HiyVos.jpg

 

Works for me.  I wonder if they are going to spike Dean's hair -- a part seems too tame.

Edited by SueB
  • Love 3
mstaken

mstaken

(edited)
Isn't there enough angst?  Does Dean have to hate himself so very much?

 

No and yes, because that's how the SPN writers roll ;) Seriously, I am so freaking sick of Dean's 'low self-esteem' issues becoming his primary and most defining characteristic and think the one good thing that could come out of a DemonDean storyline I'm otherwise not looking forward to would be if he finally realized he's worthy and the writers just MOVED ON already. One reason S1 and S2 were (and still are!) so enjoyable for me to watch is because while Dean had some vulnerabilities and insecurities beneath that bravado (who doesn't?!), he was also so much FUN---spirited and funny and snarky and brave and amusingly cocky and kind of edgy and someone with a surprisingly infectious enthusiasm for life, especially considering the crappy life he's had to lead. He had a funloving energy that so nicely countrebalanced the show's gloom and doom. And then several seasons ago he (and the show in general) became ALL. About. The. ANGST, and Dean became a sad, alcohol-soaked, joyless shell of his self, IMO. I'm so over it. I want the boys and their relationship more healthy and likable again, and I want the inevitable angst to stem from common enemies the brothers bond together to battle rather than from their own 'but I'm not woooorrrthy' issues already. Is that too much to ask?! Yes...yes, it is :) 

Edited by mstaken
  • Love 3
SueB

SueB

  • Author
(edited)

TVline report: http://tvline.com/2014/07/18/supernatural-season-10-spoilers-series-finale-rumors/

 

 

Dayum. They both look gorgeous there. And is Jared still growing taller?

Hmmm... extra skelegrow in the Moose juice for breakfast?

 

The incompetent fashionista in me would like to make the following shallow observations:

- Nice duds guys.  I like the plaid/grey combo on Jared and the Multi-tone blue look on Jensen

- Jensen honey, have the stewardess hangup your jacket for you -- it looks like you may have shoved it into your duffle bag.  I mean you look good in a burlap sack but sweetie--- wrinkles!

- A+ on the hair for me.  I like Jared hair this length and I like longer on Jensen.

- Finally, I'm seriously wondering who made the cross-roads deal to keep these guys looking like this?  Was it Singer? 

Edited by SueB
  • Love 1
Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

(edited)
This stream of consciousness has been brought to you by ElleryAnne, who isn't always properly verbal when looking at big gorgeous pictures of Jensen Ackles as a troubled Dean Winchester.

 

 

Honest-to-Chuck LOL for that one!

 

ETA  Please don't let season 10 be a rehash of season 5 -- that is, not sure if the show will continue on for another season or more.  I hope they have several (good) story lines in mind for any eventuality.

Edited by Demented Daisy
  • Love 2
catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I have never not liked Dean's look but man his hair is doing him no favors right now. I mean yes he's still gorgeous but it's too poofy on top and the sides are too short for the poof on top. I like the length he had it in the beginning of last season and the length in s5.  I'll chalk it up to Demon!Dean being blind and can't see that his hair is not worthy of Dean Winchester status.


Holy carp.  A musical-ish episode ?

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/561209/supernatural-is-doing-a-musical-ish-episode

Edited by catrox14
DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Ah man, now they have me actually looking forward to something. I have so long wanted them to do something musically--I can only hope its not a full-on musical episode, that would be lame--but a musical monster story.  But there's no way it will live up to my expectations, right?  I try really hard to have no expectations with this show, sigh. Brain bleach and lots of it is needed so I can forget about this for now. Suggestions anyone?

  • Love 1
Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

I've wanted to see a musical AU episode with Dean as a modern day Robert Johnson, touring the country and singing about all of the things he's done as a hunter.  I suppose Sam could join him;  they could pattern themselves after Gerard and Mikey Way of My Chemical Romance.  MCR  (before they broke up) often sang about monsters and vampires and evil.

 

Ooh, Jensen singing

.  I think my daughter would go to fangirl Heaven!  

 

(Okay, I'm getting a little goofy today.  Must be glad it's Friday!)

  • Love 1
7kstar

7kstar

It will be interesting to see what they do with the musical-ish ep.  I think this spoiler adds a little more details but it is still pretty vague.  I know Psych did a musical ep, but it will be interesting to see what they do.  It would be fun if something supernatural was making Dean able to sing on key for a few songs only to have it end and him singing totally off-pitch once again.  That's something I would like to see, not sure that I would see it.

 

http://www.hypable.com/2014/07/18/supernatural-tca-spoilers-200th-episode-musical/

 

I like Dean's hair on top to either be a little shorter or spiker if the sides are so short, but that's just me.  Jared is looking pretty thin, I think he could use a little more meat on his bones, it makes his face a little out of portion, but I guess that's just me.  I do like his hair length but Jensen has always been the better looking one for me.  Although Jared did look mighty pretty in season 3.  I know bad to be so shallow.  Of course neither guy has something to worry about in the looks department.

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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