Spoilers With Speculation

[NoWillToResist]

Well, I think the show has been consistent in showing that anything too powerful is a bad thing and tends to suck all the humanity and good intentions out of someone (Sam with the blood, Cas with the souls), so I can't think that Dean will be any different.

[Wynterwolf]

Maybe third time's the charm.  ;-)

[catrox14]

Since Cain killed his brother to save him from Hell, maybe the Mark isn't really about EVIL per se, but about unyielding strength? Even though he trained the Knights of Hell, Cain's motive in the first place was to save his brother from Hell. Maybe the intention within the bearer of the Mark is more important than the Mark itself?

[Wynterwolf]

Maybe the intention within the bearer of the Mark is more important than the Mark itself?

 

 

 

Oh, I like that idea.  To borrow from Richard Castle, maybe the mark "doesn't change you, it just magnifies who you are".  

[catrox14]

I fully admit I'm more of a Dean leaning gal, but to me, Dean has always been so completely human, for both good and bad. He makes so many mistakes in human judgment, he's imperfect, he drinks too much. I don't include sexual escapades because those have all been consenting partners and he loves sex.  Not an issue.  He can be overbearing and closed off.

 

But I have never thought deep down in Dean's heart and soul that he is a bad man with bad intentions. "He means well" is kind of how I've always viewed Dean.  Is he a truly Righteous Man? Did he lose his Righteousness because he tortured in Hell?  I think Dean thinks he has lost his soul and his heart when he tortured and when Kevin was murdered because of his actions with letting Sam be possessed.  (Never mind the crap from his Dad making him feel like he was nothing but Daddy's Blunt Little Instrument. 

 

I may be leaning more towards the idea espoused here by others, that this is Dean's crucible (as though he hasn't been in one long ongoing crucible for 9 years) to finding his own inner good man and will believe it. That the Mark will let him believe in himself as a decent man.  I recently rewatched "Are you there god, it's me Dean Winchester" and he said then that he doesn't understand why God would pick him and he doesn't like it and that was long before it was revealed he'd tortured souls in Hell. Maybe now he'll realize he is a good man who has done more good than bad(no matter what Sam says).  

 

Or you know, the writers will turn him evil and I'll throw things at the TV and cry.  I think it's pretty much 50/50 at this point.

[Pete Martell]

CHCH promo for tonight.

 

 

Lindsey McKeon (Tessa) interview.

 

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/supernaturals_reaper_returns_lindsey_mckeon_reveals_why_frustrated_tessa_conspires_against_castiel-2014-05

[7kstar]

Just wondering and I'll throw this out there before the final but it would be something not done before.

 

What if Sam thinks he killed Dean trying to save him.   But because of the mark it is really a fake out and only Cas knows that Dean is still alive.   Maybe at first he really does appear dead but it just doesn't stick.

 

Death kills Metatron and God  still running from Death puts Gabriel in charge by bringing him back and Metatron is gone.  Dean assumes Sam will go back to his normal happy life since he likes it so much and Dean just walks away because his brother is alive and happy.  (When has Dean made the choice to walk away with Sam happy?)

 

But Sam doesn't choose to go back to the world of normal but instead plans on becoming the best hunter out there.  Okay I doubt it would happen, but maybe it would be interesting?  What do you think?

[Phebemarie]

There are more spoilers out there touting the last frame of the finale saying we won't be able to wait for next season when we see it.  More and more, I'm certain Dean's eyes are going to be black. I'd much rather that last frame be Dean sprouting angel wings, but I'm sure that's not the direction the writers are going.  :(

[NoWillToResist]

I am starting to think that we will get a reverse crypt scene. Based on what I saw on tumblr posts about tonight's episode, Cas just kind of gave up everything for Dean AGAIN. So, maybe that gesture (and what it represents) will be what gets through to Dean? Or will be used to try and get through to Dean? Heck, maybe Dean falls under the thrall of the blade and is about to kill Cas, we get the reverse crypt scene thing, and Dean is able to briefly snap out of it and plunges the blade into himself? I can see Dean choosing suicide (if he even can while bearing the MoC) over killing a loved one. He believes he's hell-bound again anyway.

 

Otherwise, if Metatron is all "we've found Castiel's weakness! He's in love...[a 'fuck you' pause from the writers]...with humanity", will this play out in the finale? Will Metatron try and use Cas' weakness against him? Will he try to manipulate/threaten Dean to get Cas to fall in line?

 

Hm, the promo seems to show Dean swiping at Metatron with the Blade. What if Dean kills Metatron and basically becomes God? A God with bloodlust due to the First Blade?

 

Lots of options...

Edited May 14, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[mertensia]

I think it says more about Sam than you about anything else that when Dean was explaining Sam immediately went to "that is one lame excuse even for you." Still waiting for groveling Dean to return, eh?

What was up with the 25 pounds of make up on Tessa's face?

I'm guessing Tessa went crazy because she constantly heard those trapped in the Veil and represented herself as angel.

[catrox14]

Oh boy.  This tweet makes me really anxious

 

SUPERNATURAL's @jarpad says finale has "the best last 5 seconds" of any season to date. Does it change the landscape? "Oh God, yes!"

 

Something more shocking than Dean in Hell? Or Cas becoming Godstiel?   /chews fingernails

Edited May 15, 2014 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Sneak Peek from the finale

 

 

Yeah, I don't think Dean is going to be in there for long.

[NoWillToResist]

 

Yeah, I don't think Dean is going to be in there for long.

 

Well, we know he has a chat with Crowley, and I think it was in that room too. Can Crowley zap people away with him?

[SueB]

Spoilers on the last SECOND http://www.justjared.com/2014/05/15/jared-padalecki-jensen-ackles-hit-the-cw-upfronts-tease-shocking-supernatural-finale/

 

"chilling" "disturbing" implied last shot before fade to black "There are multiple characters involved."

 

Slo-mo gif version of the promo: http://crossroadscastiel.tumblr.com/post/85701287257/i-get-this-high-and-i-have-to-kill-i-mean-i

 

As far as I can tell, there were NO photos released at this point

 

So here's what I've pieced together from these tidbits:

- Early in episode: Gadreel is on the floor, Dean yells at him to get out of the way; somehow they get Dean into the dungeon and leave (thus hitting us on the head with a S4 parallel anvil in case we didn't get that S9 is flipping S4)

- Dean gets out to the storeroom and summons Crowley (which kinda pisses me off ONLY because they spent episodes looking for Crowley... so why can Dean summon him now but not 6 episodes ago?.... okay, letting it go).  You see storeroom potions next to Dean

- Dean and Crowley interact. It's Crowley that he's talking to about how much he needs to kill.

- How Dean gets blood on his mouth and whose blood is it? Dean is still in the bunker I think. See speculation below.

- Sam and Cas appear to be finding Gadreel's body.  It sure looks like Gadreel is dead but not smited dead.  Just bloody dead.

- Clearly Dean leaves the bunker and has a Metatron confrontation at some point

- Cas is apparently behind those bars and that area appears to blow up while Dean is sailing across the room

- Sam pulls a gun on Dean

Note: It looks like the final scene or CLOSE to the final scene is set-dressed similar to the pre-season promo photos with Dean in obvious all-red now. http://supernaturalfansonline.com/2013/09/27/more-season-9-promotional-pictures/

 

Thinky Thoughts:

- They've had a running theme of Dean making questionable deals all season.  Now he clearly doesn't need Crowley to free him from the dungeon but I wonder if he makes a deal to lesson the blade's effects.  I don't know if Crowley could swing that.  Dean can obviously offer to not kill Crowley, offer his soul (which frankly, Crowley probably thinks he's getting already), or let Crowley do something to him that puts him on Crowley's payroll early.  I could see them NOT showing us the deal and instead just showing Dean with blood on his mouth, no explanation until the cliffhanger.

- It's possible they imply a Castiel death but since they had him at the upfronts, etc... it's a really weak-sauce threat

- If any of those gifs from the promo are of the last scene, I'd pick Sam pulling a gun on Dean.

- Jensen's comment that the big gasp involves a lot of people throws me.

- No clue why Metatron is with what appears to be homeless people or why they are beating someone.

 

Cliffhanger options (in likelihood order):

Given that Misha said "chilling" and "disturbing"

- Demon Dean

- Crowley showing up to snatch Dean away due to whatever Deal was made

- Immortal Dean (like Sam shoots him and Dean just looks up unconcerned)

- Sam shoots Dean

- The season has been about the reverse of S4 with the pairing being Sam/Cas and Dean/Crowley -- so if it involves a great deal of people, I could see some sort of square off where it's clear that Dean is now Team Crowley vice Team Free Will

 

IDK.  I'm pretty stumped and happy to wait (okay, not really) til Tuesday to see.

[catrox14]

My thinky thoughts

 

---If it involves a lot of people,  it's a time reset given the stupid pointed thing about not altering anything or everything changes.

 

or

 

---Dean actually really kills Sam and we see Sam in heaven surrounded by family and friends (reunion scene with Jess, Mom, John, Bobby, Jo, Ellen etc) and then Dean kills Crowley and we see him in Hell lording over his new demon army as King of Hell.  Fade to Black. 

[SueB]

Besides kill, kill, kill, Dean's objective HAS to be to get the souls into Heaven. He still retains his love for humanity --- surprisingly enough -- based on his comment to Tessa that she was so wrong about collateral damage not being important in the big picture. And he gets a pained look on his face when Tessa talked about the souls in pain. Especially since Kevin is one of them. So, if you are Dean and you desperately want to kill Metatron, KNOW you are likely the only one with the weapon to get that job done, but need to solve the trapped souls issue... Who are you going to consult/consort with to get that accomplished?

Benched by the rest of TFW, Crowley is your Ace. Crowley deciphered that gate closing is irreversible. But did he sort out anything else? Is there a clue that he could give Dean? Would he know if killing Metatron gets the job done or at least keeps the portal open?

It seems to me that he needs two things out of Crowley: one, something to help him get under control because he just killed their best lead (Gadreel) and two, any intel to help get souls to heaven. So long as Dean keeps his power, his wits, and freedom of action to complete his mission -- I suspect Dean will give Crowley anything he wants.

Now add that Dean smacks Metatron around in the promo but he doesn't stab him. Perhaps that is an indicator that he needs Metatron to widen the portal or help get souls to Heaven. Metatron obviously won't help but he is a weasel vice a zealot. He won't die for his cause, he might be force-able if Dean has a golden parachute to offer him. Some sort of exile with books.

IDK. I'm pretty sure someone has to shed blood or grace for this and I know Dean is not planning to come out of these events in any version of 'ok'. BUT If Dean Winchester's objective is to open Heaven for souls, the's nothing he won't do to make that happen -- including sacrificing both Sam and/or Cas I think. And I'll put money on a determined Dean.

[SueB]

Jensen Ackles video interview by IGS from CW upfronts http://m.ign.com/videos/2014/05/16/supernatural-jensen-ackles-on-season-9s-finale-and-season-10

 

"EYE OPENER".  At this point I'm giving 10 to 1 odds on a black eyed Demon Dean.

[catrox14]

Or Dean finally opens his eyes to being in love with Castiel :)

 

Or Dean has red eyes and is now the King of Hell

Edited May 17, 2014 by catrox14

[FastenSeatBelts]

Whenever I get up during a movie to get some chips or whatever and ask my boyfriend what happened while I was gone, he always answers with: All dead.

 

So of course when I asked him what he thinks about the finale his answer was: All dead

 

At first I laughed but then it got me thinking. What if this is what happens? Why not.

Either all of humanity or at least Dean, Sam and Cas. That would leave us with a season behind the veil.

 

And then this recent interview came to mind. All three of them were giving different numbers when it came to the most interesting seconds of the finale.

Misha said, the final 30, Jared said the final 5 and Jensen said it's the last second.

So what if they were talking about their characters?

What if Cas loses his grace and dies 30 seconds before the end, Sam dies 5 seconds before the end, and Dean dies or opens his demon eyes during the final second.

What do you think?

[catrox14]

So today at the Asylum con, Jared said that Sam didn't mean what he said to Dean in the Purge about not saving Dean's life.  Jared's said that Sam just said it to hurt Dean because Dean lied to him. And that the MoC is somehow causing Dean to not realize that Sam didn't mean what he said.  Mmmm kaaay....

 

Oh boy. I don't care for that at all if Jared is speaking from a textual place vs his interpretation of the events.

 

Implications for this viewer are that

 

Sam is a bigger jerk than I thought.  There was a lot of discussion that Sam was talking only about not saving Dean's life if the exact same situation happened meaning he wouldn't let Dean be possessed against his will or consent. Not that Sam was mad because Dean lied about it. But apparently Sam was never actually mad at being possessed per se. So Sam's response is to tell Dean he wouldn't save his life in any situation because Dean lied? Punishment not fitting the crime much there Sam?  Dean even tried to dispute that Sam wouldn't save his life regardless of the situation and Sam still said he wouldn't.  

 

Second implication is that Dean should have somehow just intuited that Sam only said that to hurt Dean even after Dean said he didn't believe that Sam wouldn't save his life. Yet it's the MoC that is making Dean not intuit that Sam was being an asshole on purpose and didn't mean what he said? bwuhhh?

 

I don't understand that at all. It's also annoying because that implies that if Dean loses the Mark then he won't care that Sam said horribly cruel things just to hurt Dean.  And it also implies that Sam was actually not that upset about being possessed just that Dean kept lying about it which means that Sam doesn't care about his own agency or something?

 

Man I sure hope Jared is talking out of his ass on this because that is just so not what I was lead to believe was going on.

 

ETA:  If someone else read something different about Jared's comments about Sam please feel free to disabuse of my ideas here. Seriously. 

Edited May 17, 2014 by catrox14

[kimrey]

 

CHCH promo!

 

Nothing too new.  Sam goes at Dean to try to get him to stop.  I assume this happens right at the beginning, right after Dean slashes Gadreel.  Then it cuts to Dean and Metatron, with Metatron throwing Dean into the wall.

Edited May 17, 2014 by kimrey

[catrox14]

Okay, so in that promo from CW when Crowley says, "The less you kill, the less better you feel". 

 

Could the Mark be causing more than an addiction to killing? I'm thinking maybe if Dean doesn't kill, the Mark actually starts killing him slowly over time? 

 

Ugh, I'm really starting to freak out that they are really going to turn Dean into a demon. I've been hoping it's going to be nothing but a misdirect but more and more I think it's going to happen.  And to me that is much worse than Dean actually dying.  That's just cruel and unusual punishment for Dean. :(. Please let it not be true.   It's his worst nightmare come true. Literally.  No. Just. No.

 

Do.Not.Want.

[bluebonnet]

I might be the only one still holding onto hope that Gadreel is still holding on to life.  Part is because I'm not ready to let Tahmoh Penikett go just yet, but another part is that I fantasize that he has a part to play in the brother aspect of the MoC.  Surely that long focus on the Cain and Abel story in that book will be meaningful.  I had been thinking that Castiel would allow Gadreel to possess him.  For one, they need the info he has.  I think Castiel has also made a big point about no more angels dying and he knows that Gad has good intent and isnt an inherently evil angel.  What I wonder is whether or not Dean becomes able to see the true faces of others.  If he is able to see the true faces, he would see that this is Gadreel, not Castiel, in Jimmy Novak's body.  Would he try to kill him again?  If so, does that fulfill the fratricide that will really turn the MoC into something evil?  Balthazar was going to do a spell that involved patricide, though he needed the blood of the father but the father need not be blood.  Does it work a little that way?  

 

Mostly just trying to speculate myself into a way that Tahmoh can stick around.  lol

[catrox14]

I never understood Balthazar spell. Can you explain it to me?

[NoWillToResist]

 

Either all of humanity or at least Dean, Sam and Cas. That would leave us with a season behind the veil.

 

Well, that would certainly fit with the 'game changer' and Jensen's "wow. They went there" and Misha's "can they do that?"  Interesting concept, but I suspect it's either too high-brow or too expensive to pull off.

 

I think demonic/king of Hell Dean is more likely. It changes the show's canvas, affects several people and, while not shocking in light of the path Dean's been shown to be on, it is something new.

 

The only issue I have is that I don't really see black-eyed Dean as a big cliffhanger. I mean, I won't be disinterested to see where they go next, but I won't be on the edge of my seat all summer either. So, J2M are either way over-selling the finale or it's something really big which hasn't been suggested here yet, IMO.

[bluebonnet]

I don't really know what the exact spell was because they never performed it, but it was meant to scar the vessel so as to be unsuitable for a soul.  Patricide was part of it, though the father didn't need to be blood.  A father figure sufficed.  Sort of like a half-brother sufficed for the angels during the apocalypse (obviously turned out bad for them).  So my thoughts were that if there is something that could amp up the power of the Mark, would killing a brother figure be enough?  Of course, I want to push Gad into this because reasons be he did live as Dean's brother for a while and he does still possess something of Sam's (all his thoughts and memories) and if leftover angel grace is useful, perhaps leftover human bits are useful, too.  Even without Gadreel, Castiel is still more than enough of a brother figure.  

[SueB]

The only issue I have is that I don't really see black-eyed Dean as a big cliffhanger. I mean, I won't be disinterested to see where they go next, but I won't be on the edge of my seat all summer either. So, J2M are either way over-selling the finale or it's something really big which hasn't been suggested here yet, IMO.

I'm not sure they know how much we've speculated on a Demon Dean. So, the first time you hear a concept wouldn't it be way more cool than if you'd been speculating on it for weeks? Mabe were just more prepared than they know?

[catrox14]

I am normally spoiler phobic but I'm so freaked out about Dean's trajectory that I've become obsessed with this interview from Jensen from the upfronts this week. He's talking about reading the script for 9.23 and I am 100% convinced his "Wow, okay, we're goin' there.Alright' and he's pretty animated and IMO I think it's going to be Destiel and/or Demon!Dean and maybe even God. 

 

Make of it what you will :)

 

On a shallow note...his normal speaking voice is just.....swoonworthy. 

 

http://www.tvfanatic.com/videos/jensen-ackles-upfront-interview/#.U3Ymr098_1o.twitter

[bluebonnet]

I didn't start participating within the fandom until maybe a couple of months ago.  I've never anticipated a finale so much before.  Is it usually this way for those of you who have been on forums for a while?  I can't tell if it's because I'm so excited about a specific part of a plot or if it's because all the spoilers, interviews and fan discussions I've seen is amping me up.  Tuesday cant come fast enough.  

[catrox14]

I'm new to SPN within the past 8 months or so.  I am as excited for this finale as I was LOST and BSG which are my two favorite shows of all time.  But I avoided all spoilers for those.  I am amazed at how quickly I became attached to Dean Winchester. He's just an amazing character, so I feel like I have to prepare myself for his fate because I don't think it's going to be a happy one and will likely be 1000% emotionally destructive.  Considering they had the balls to actually kill him and send him to Hell before, I don't think anything is out of the question with this show.

[SueB]

Finally finale pics:http://www.hypable.com/2014/05/16/supernatural-season-9-finale-synopsis-stills-clip/

 

So, it looks like Gadreel DOES live (given he's standing and talking to Cas and Sam after they find him). Odd.

Dean looks so LOST sitting on that floor.

And it looks like more Buddy Road Trip fun for Dean and Crowley.

[catrox14]

I'm just so happy that Dean is dressed in dark blue and not the ugly yellow-brown crap they put him in last couple of episodes.  I'm going to go and cry now after seeing Dean looking utterly undone in that scene where he's covered in blood. :(

 

I'm scared. Seriously.

[Phebemarie]

Wouldn't it be nice if the title of the finale "Do You Believe in Miracles?" actually meant something wonderful was going to happen in the last second?  I could endure something horrible happening (everybody dead, dying and demonized)  if it meant that the SPN god popped in and at the last second and set us back to an earlier time where the only worry the boys had was the family business (saving people and hunting things).

[catrox14]

I actually would kind of hate that.  I don't want anything the boys have been through and done to be negated by a time reset.

[catrox14]

So looking at those stills. It's the one with the boys looking in the trunk of the car that I am obsessing over. What or whom are they looking at if anything.  Dean looks grief stricken, Sam is looking at Dean with sadness and empathy (oh HAI SAM, Nice to see you again).

 

I would kind of like it if it were the final scene, the boys say, "Well, we've got work to do: /close trunk"  

 

 

Fat chance though..:(

[starrysuki]

Further up it was asked if there was always this level of excitement before a final. I can remember people being so excited for the Season 7 finale with Dean & Cas being sent to Purgatory. On websites I visited there was lots of excitement and speculation all summer on whether Cas was normal as opposed to insane, on where he disappeared to, on the creepy red eyes, what Sam would be doing etc. Unfortunately reality was much different. The much loved Purgatory plot equalled only about 15 mins. total and Sam didn't look for Dean and so on. I think I remember Jim Michaels being surprised that it was so popular with fans.

As far as 823 I think there was mixed emotions. A lot of people didn't like the season. Some liked the first half and not the second  and others the reverse. Many thought that Dean was relegated to being a nursemaid with the trials being stolen out from underneath him where others were delighted with what was happened. As a Cas fan I was just praying that Cas would survive. Of course that final scene of the angels falling was spectacular. Unfortunately the writers squandered what could been great episodes with the angels on earth.

There is a lot of excitement again and even if we get a great finale, I wonder if these particular writers have the talent to pull off a great season. I've been disappointed twice before.

[7kstar]

 

So today at the Asylum con, Jared said that Sam didn't mean what he said to Dean in the Purge about not saving Dean's life.  Jared's said that Sam just said it to hurt Dean because Dean lied to him. And that the MoC is somehow causing Dean to not realize that Sam didn't mean what he said.  Mmmm kaaay....

 

Jared has said at other Cons this year, that only family knows how to hurt family when your really upset.  I think this is really what happened.  Sam's actions have shown he cares and the spoiler shows a reverse of Season 4 where this time it is Dean that is locked up.  Last time Cas let Sam out, and this time it looks like Crowley let Dean out.  Just guessing.

 

Now what game changer, new idea, never thought they would go there????  It would have to be something really different for that to be true.

 

I know that fans never believed that Dean would go to hell and I actually didn't start watching until the last ep of season 3, so I had to catch up by watching all the eps over the summer. 

 

Now will they really surprise us...don't know.  I know I kept wishing they wouldn't do what they did on the end of season 5 but I wasn't that surprised by it. 

 

One telling interview is Misha.  He says he has plenty of ideas but they never go there so he will just have to wait to see what they will do.

 

If it keeps the formula, Dean lies to Sam, Sam finds out going...I won't be excited.  Kevin's death wasn't exciting for me and certainly not a surprise since lately they kill off anyone that gets close to the brothers.  So I'm trying to go in without to much in my head because if I get too worked over it, then I usually hate it.  I just hope it is better than last season's. 

[catrox14]

 

Jared has said at other Cons this year, that only family knows how to hurt family when your really upset.  I think this is really what happened.  Sam's actions have shown he cares and the spoiler shows a reverse of Season 4 where this time it is Dean that is locked up.  Last time Cas let Sam out, and this time it looks like Crowley let Dean out.  Just guessing.

 

My point was more that nothing in the show so far this season points to Sam not meaning what he said to Dean, nor that Dean actually believes that Sam doesn't believe those things about him. I think Sam has to outright tell Dean that he didn't mean it in order for Dean to not believe.  I don't think Sam has to apologize but just clarify that he didn't mean it about Dean's entire life.

 

I think it's kind of a handwave for Jared to imply that Dean would have just blown off what he said in the Purge it it weren't for the MoC.  That's what is bugging me.  

[7kstar]

 

I think it's kind of a handwave for Jared to imply that Dean would have just blown off what he said in the Purge it it weren't for the MoC.  That's what is bugging me.

IA.  The writing has really damaged Sam.  I know the Sam girls will say Dean is the meanie, but to be honest I'm not sure I care.  There comes a point that the angst isn't real.

 

In real life you forgive and then discover you have tried to forgive but it comes in layers like an onion.  You peel back the first layer but there are so much more to go.

 

I think we are seeing Dean finally reaching the point that his anger that he has tried to bury just can't.  If Sam had said something different...shown he still cares it may have been different.  But if they continue this meaningless angst, I don't really care.  The show I enjoyed isn't fun anymore.  Just to watch for the blame game is too much work unless they make it mean something and resolve it.  I'm hoping they have a resolution because I'm not sure I'll sign up for another season of Sam and Dean not getting along.

[NoWillToResist]

 

So, it looks like Gadreel DOES live (given he's standing and talking to Cas and Sam after they find him)

 

Well, since Dean only slashed Gadreel, he was probably only wounded; maybe Cas uses some of his waning batteries to save him?

 

I think there is no chance of "Destiel" being the cliffhanger. Setting aside my cynicism re: TPTB, Misha called the final moments "chilling and disturbing", so I don't see how a romantic element to Dean/Cas fits that (except to homophobes).

 

I admit I am amped up to know what the final moments will actually be, but I must confess that I am wary. It might be a great cliffhanger but that doesn't mean shit for this show, IMO. Dean and Cas in Purgatory had such potential at the end of S7. The angels falling to earth (and Cas being human) also had great potential at the end of S8. And, frankly, I think TPTB squandered that potential completely. We barely saw Purgatory, and the whole 'Cas figures out how to live as a human' story basically ended up with Cas eating toothpaste and fucking a woman possessed by a reaper. For both storylines (Purgatory, and Human!Cas), I saw amazing spec and theories online. None of those came to pass. I just find it so depressing that 'fangirls' have more creativity and skill with plot/characters than 'professional' writers...

Edited May 19, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[SueB]

 

I just find it so depressing that 'fangirls' have more creativity and skill with plot/characters than 'professional' writers...

I'm just going to try (note, it's unlikely I'll live up to this) and NOT get to far into speculation land over the summer because you are right --- they surprise us everytime. Personally I LIKED the start of S8 and just wish we had more Purgatory flashbacks.  But I totally get MMV.

 

I fully expect S9 to end DARK. 

[starrysuki]

Oh, I agree. There was so much potential there. I was so looking forward to the angel storyline and we got more MOTW episodes. Some of the angels we did see were intriguing but most were so poorly used and killed off almost immediately. There was no care in writing amazing angel characters that we had in the past. And some of the actors they hired were laughably bad.

I've always taken an exception to the route the writers took with the angels in making them so unsympathetic except for the odd one and Castiel of course. But that's the decision that was made and we have to live with it.

We know that Misha has signed a multi-year contract so he'll be back but as what or who?

Will he be possessed by either Gadriel or Metatron or will Cas come back as a human? I think the show has been hinting strongly at that being the case. I know a lot of people liked human Cas but I want him to remain an angel. That's what he was created as and I don't agree that you should be able to change your species. Ideally I like Cas to remain on earth as an angel, not be banned from heaven but for him to choose the Winchesters and earth. I also like to see God come back and sort the unruly mess upstairs, getting the angels back on track to loving and helping humanity.

[catrox14]

I want the angels to be dicks for the most part. And continue being terrible to humans like Uriel and Zachariah were. I want Cas to be Cas be he Angel or human.  I want them to have their own motives just like the demons and I want Sam and Dean to continue to be the protectors of Earth and humanity as humans.

 

That's why I'm becoming really skittish about making Dean into an actual demon. 

[ElleryAnne]

I just find it so depressing that 'fangirls' have more creativity and skill with plot/characters than 'professional' writers.

 

 

That's because a lot of fangirls care about the characters, don't want them to live in relentless despair, and understand the characters well enough to recognize when a behavior is OOC.  I'm not sure that's always true of the writers.

 

I'm worried that Jensen's "eye-opener" comment means that Sam or Castiel will kill Dean, and the last second of the episode will have Dean's eyes popping open as demon eyes.  I'm not looking forward to that, in part because I don't want demon!Dean next season, and in part because I won't feel like it's a great cliffhanger.  It doesn't seem like it would be chilling, disturbing, or "wow".  It just seems like an easy shock-value ending.  But I've been watching this show since its inception and the only two times the cliffhanger really stunned me were S1 and S3.  And S1 was only because I didn't know whether the show had been renewed at the time I first saw it.

[FastenSeatBelts]

 

"Wow, okay, we're goin' there.Alright' and he's pretty animated and IMO I think it's going to be Destiel and/or Demon!Dean and maybe even God.

[...] http://www.tvfanatic.com/videos/jensen-ackles-upfront-interview/#.U3Ymr098_1o.twitter

catrox14 you might be right, especially since Jensen is nodding towards Misha, while he says "we're going there". Oh I hope you're right.... that would be just so.... wow.

Just imagine they're really going there it must be so much fun for the actors to know that this will happen and hint at it without revealing to much.

Edited May 19, 2014 by FastenSeatBelts

[catrox14]

I've talked myself out of Destiel after listening to Misha and Jared's interviews. Both are saying it changes things going forward. And Jared says it's not going back and picking up on something from early seasons but is creating a whole new mythology which could carry them beyond s10 (WTF) which is pinging my "No no no no no no-don't you dare erase the past"-dar.  And given the specificity of Sam saying "If you change one thing, it affects everything" in King of the Damned, I fear that is what they are going to do. 

 

Bah, I have never been so willingly seeking spoilers because I'm so freaked out about this finale.  Geez.

[starrysuki]

 

And given the specificity of Sam saying "If you change one thing, it affects everything" in King of the Damned, I fear that is what they are going to do.

God the more I hear the less enthused I'm becoming. I thought that Cas would end up dying or possessed in the finale but reading the interview has made me change my mind. I guess we'll find out tomorrow. I wanted some kind of acknowledgement from Cas & Dean but I'm now convinced that won't happen.

[SueB]

 

I don't agree that you should be able to change your species.

Important safety tip.  I agree.  :)

 

Since Jensen said "twist" and "shocked" in that TV fanatic interview (thanks for that BTW!), I think we'll be surprised. He's not prone to hype in general.  Although the "eye's open" (different interview) seems like a COMPLETE spoiler.  And Jared's emphasis on long-lasting? I'm still giving 10 to 1 odds: Demon Dean.

Edited May 19, 2014 by SueB

[catrox14]

Okay, so "My Heart Will Go On" aired on TNT today. I am totally convinced now that Sam's butterfly effect comment is foreshadowing a reset of the show.

[ElleryAnne]

LOL, catrox14.  I'd be happy with a reset but I don't think it'll happen.  You won't be happy with a reset and you think it might happen.  I'm beginning to wonder if the PTB are just screwing with us all.